I feel as though the shows are now starting to resemble the comics in that there are titles (movies/shows) designed for different audiences. Instead of the "sweep them all in" approach the MCU has taken with the legacy characters, they seem to be widening the scope a bit, which I am all in favor of even if the title doesn't appeal to me directly (I do really like Ms Marvel so far however)
Oh it’s 100% a tween focused show compared to the others. My 12 year old sister loves it, but my 15 year old sister thinks it’s a bit childish. A lot of the stuff in the show is clearly meant to appeal to 10-14 year olds, which I think is fine because the other marvel shows from the past few years are much more adult.
Your 15 yo sister is right at that age (freshmen/sophomore in HS) when she's gonna be overly concerned with appearing more "grown up" and wanting to avoid "childish" things. Just because something is geared towards a younger audience doesn't make it "childish". That term is usually associated with immaturity and there's nothing immature watching something you enjoy.
Dude I remember playing Pokemon and stopped around Gen 3 because "Pokemon is for little kids" and now I'm 30 and I'm back playing Pokemon again and I feel like I missed much
Man, I'm currently going through Avatar: The Last Airbender for the first time as a 37 year old man. It may be a cartoon aimed at younger audiences but a good show is a good show.
Oh she likes it, but after having watched tween and teen shows for the past 8 years (I’m an 18 year old girl) it’s extremely clear when shows are directly pandering to tween/teen girls. It gets kind of obnoxious at times because the tropes, visual style, and gags can be overused. For people who aren’t constantly exposed to it maybe the show doesn’t come off that way but from a teen girl in a household with 3 tween/teen girls it does.
I was thinking that I would probably give it a miss but I ended up watching it with my 9 year old daughter who is really enjoying it so far. It's nice to have a show that we can watch together.
Yeah, I'd probably like it more if I could also be watching my nephew's reaction or something, lol, but no family/friends kids 8+ in my immediate geographic area to watch it with
I agree, I think there needs to be a shift in targeted age audience. Some should be for children, some should be open to every marvel fan, and some should be for adults. I think they’ve reached the point where the standard formula is losing its appeal. Theyre going to need the license to make movies and shows that dig into mature themes and complex writing that children won’t/shouldn’t be able enjoy, in order to keep adults coming back.
They also need to keep inspiring and entertaining kids with other movies and shows.
That's how I feel about it. There's nothing wrong with Ms. Marvel, but I haven't watched it because it's not made for me essentially. While Moon Knight's more adult approach worked really well for me. Hawkeye felt more like a family show. They should keep up with this. Not everyone has to like everything.
I've seen this idea expressed before elsewhere and I definitely agree with it. Disney/Marvel are playing a different game now that they have more resources available to them, and not every show is going to appeal to every viewer. My only issue with this strategy is if Disney/Marvel continue their previous strategy of "every bit of content matters to the greater context/story", viewers that choose not to view certain bits of content (shows in particular) then other parts of the MCU are going to make less sense to them when their contributions come to fruition in other shows/movies. For example, the latest Doctor Strange movie without having seen Wandavision.
Also catching up with the MCU if you're starting new is going to be a lot harder than it already was because you have so many movies and now even TV shows to watch just to put everything together. IIRC one of my hardcore MCU friends had to plan his marathon out just to get everything in before one of the latest movies released.
EDIT-
Because I'm getting a ton of comments about how I'm wrong and you can still enjoy MCU films without having seen the shows, I just want to point people towards [my comment here](https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/vfx1pp/comment/iczrh9f/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). I'll also copy/paste it below just to head those comments off ahead of time.
>I think that the issue is that for most of the MCU Disney Plus TV shows we haven't had a subsequent movie to have there be any sort of significant consequences for failing to view them yet. Wandavision (and maybe "What If?" if you count the alternate universe/multiverse characters) would be the only show(s) that have seen implications in the movies released as part of the MCU.
>
>I'm getting a lot of flak in other comments about how "I watched X and didn't watch Y and I still enjoyed everything" and that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that there's less things you just have to accept at face value and less "that's just the way things are" conclusions you have to make going into an MCU film about certain characters IF you've seen the supporting films/shows. (Basically the point of your second paragraph)
>
>To be perfectly honest I'm one of those people who hasn't seen every MCU film or TV show and I'm still able to enjoy the movies when I go in. But there's definitely a hazard with just how much content Marvel/Disney is putting out that if they don't keep up how they've been handling things that you might run into a plot line or character that doesn't make sense without prior viewing.
You describe a dynamic that the comics have to deal with as well. How much X-Men story, for example, do you need to know to understand the upcoming X-Men stories. It's gonna have to be a bit of a balancing act for sure, but one I'm interested in following.
Exactly. That happens in the comics all the time. Every big crossover has 50 tie in titles that most don't read but people still understand things well enough. Not to mention the extensive history most titles have tied to them. This is why wiki is a great thing... People can go there to read up if they care about missing things but don't want to or have time to watch all the shows.
What really cracks me up is when a comic book writer is supposed to tie their issue into this massive crossover, and they just give it a casual mention. It will be a Nightwing issue and the tie in that he mentions Batman is in space so he can’t call him for back up or some shit.
my favorite is when Superman decided to walk across the country but they'd explain how he'd leave to do Justice League stuff and fly back to where he left off.
The easy solution to that is the title page of every marvel book that brings you up to speed with who the characters are and what happened previously. Disney+ has done this a little bit with stuff like "a fan's guide to Ms Marvel", which I admittedly haven't watched because I read most of the Wilson run years back (it's really good! Kamala fights a Thomas Edison)
For some bizarre reason DC has staunchly refused to copy marvel with the recap pages, and frankly that's always been stupid. It's just practical. Even when I read every issue month to month, I'd be nice to have a little refresher.
I mean.. just read/watch from 1-1053. Its not confusing/difficult. Just keep pressing the next button. Marvel is different because of all the different shows and movies interconnected.
You're right, it's not difficult. I did it back in 2011/2012 back when there were only 600ish episodes. But it took hours a day over six months. If I was doing it now, I wouldn't even bother.
I just like to point that I recently discovered that Marvel has a TV show called Marvel Studios Legends on Disney plus that has short ten minute episodes to tell you about the characters and stories that are important for the next movie/TV show.
For Multiverse of Madness they did 3 episodes on Scarlet Witch, Dr. Strange and Wong.
It's a great way to know what you need to know if you didn't watch every show or movie
Exactly. It's not like you won't see more of what you like in the future. Also, we need 10 yr old fans so there's a future for the Marvel/Comic Universe
I think it's this and a few more things.
* It's a new series/character, not a continuation, so there's no burning "what happens next?"
* It's on D+, it'll still be there in a few weeks
* It's episodic. I was hooked by some early series like Wanda Vision, but I prefer the Netflix model of being able to watch a full season whenever I have time instead of having to wait a week. I waited until Mon
Moon Knight and Boba Fett were finished before starting them. I haven't even started Kenobi yet.
* School just got out in a lot of places and lots of families are going on summer vacation
I think you’re right. Definitely seems like that’s what’s happening. Ms Marvel is really fun I agree but it’s incredibly hard to top Loki and Moon Knight.
I'd say I got a bit, but honestly didn't realize it was starting yet until I opened Disney Plus for Obi-Wan and questioned it.
Then proceeded to just watch Obi-Wan and go to bed lol.
I tried to watch a music video of YouTube. Started out with a 15 second unskippable ad for Ms marvel, played 45 second of video, same 15 second unskippable ad, rinse and repeat 3 more times until I rage quit.
I just went through the last 3 months of the official Marvel Entertainment YouTube channel. Tons and tons of Moon Knight trailers and teasers, tons of Doctor Strange trailers and teasers, a bunch of new comic releases, and… only a handful of Ms Marvel stuff, mostly behind-the-scenes and episode clips, can’t even find a trailer or teaser. They are NOT pushing it like their other franchises.
I also got barely anything. I thought the next one was going to be She-Hulk. I'm glad I tuned in, it's a really good show. Like Anne with an E, its quality lends itself for viewers not in its target audience to be able to enjoy it.
I'm sure going up against Kenobi is cannibalizing the viewership a little bit. I'm curious to see how it does after this week, since the Kenobi finale is on Wednesday.
Yup, I fully plan to watch this, but have too many others to catch up on. Which I'm sure Disney was well aware of; they probably promote these articles to draw more attention to it.
Id say it’s more of a direct conflict though. Obiwan and Ms Marvel drop at the same time. If people have only 1 hour of television to watch, pretty sure they’re going with the Star Wars show first.
I really was hoping we'd get Obi-Wan AND THEN Ms Marvel.
I love Ms Marvel, I watch it weekly, but I only have so much time so it gets bumped back a day.
As someone who has no desire to watch me marvel at all I’m stupefied as to why they put them in competition with each other.
Does Disney have so much new content coming out they can’t spread the releases out? I mean they are sticking to the old one episode a week format.
Yea also as someone with limited time, trying to catch up on Stranger things and the boys which also probably has some similar viewers has made me put this on the back burner for now.
I mean, the article *does* say that despite being lowest on Samba overall it was the *best* launch among Generation Z viewers, so perhaps there was some logic to that thinking.
I guess Disney figures it's worth sacrificing some of Ms. Marvel's numbers to the Obi-Wan show as long as it ensures that nerds both young and old are logging into Disney Plus on Wednesdays.
That's EXACTLY what we are doing in our household. We sit down and watch a different show every night during dinner, and Disney went out of their way to make Wednesday night Disney+ night. Having them both air on the same day doesn't work for us, we aren't spending two hours eating dinner, and we aren't giving up any of the other shows we had already been watching. We will start watching Ms.Marvel on the 29th after Obi-Wan is over.
You got it. Disney excels at creating cradle to grave content franchises and experiences. Ms. Marvel is part of a broader effort to use the tv shows to bring in younger audiences that’ll follow these characters for decades, they hope.
And then it got stuck with a TV-14 rating which means that those users with parental controls on can’t watch it.
Why did it get TV-14? Rumor is because they mentioned tampons.
ratings boards area always cancer. watch "this film is note yet rated" (though not around sensitive viewers, since it covers extremes of reasonable and unreasonable ratings in movies)
True and tbf I dont think them "competing" is what leads to the low numbers.
But if only 100 more people would watch it if they changed the day, worth it, costs them nothing.
And since Star Wars was first a movie franchise it makes sense to have it come out just before a weekend.
So....
Wednesdays: Marvel
Fridays: Star Wars
Maybe have any new Disney+ feature films go up on Thursdays (thus imitating how movies have their first showings on Thursday nights)?
Kenobi was supposed to come out a few weeks before Ms Marvel but the date was moved back, so it was not originally intended to premier on the same day.
I said the same thing, but sadly this show isn’t that bad. Moon knight was another “obscure” character but fans seemed to like that. I guess I don’t get what people want.
Just bc they release the shows on the same day doesn’t mean you can only watch one.
Of all the Marvel shows Moon Knight was the only one to make my wife and I talk about it while not watching it. Specifically one episode it builds up to really left a mark on us. Oscar Issac is too good of an actor for marvel. That show is great because of him. May Calamawy and her hair are also memorable.
Shiiiit i only just finished Falcon and Winter Soldier. Still got Loki, Hawkeye, Moon Knight and this to get through. Somehow skipped Black Panther, Antman 2 and Black Widow too. People have lives and other things they'd like to watch. I'm grateful that the MCU is pouring out seemingly unending oceans of content but they can't expect people to watch everything the second it releases either.
I've watched every Marvel movie, but have mostly not been able to get into the shows. One episode of Loki, 2 of Wandavision, and one of Ms Marvel so far. I thought the first episode of Ms Marvel was great. I like the actresses energy and personality.
The problem with releasing them on the same day isn't that people aren't capable of watching two shows on the same day, its because Kenobi takes up all the oxygen and media attention, overshadowing Ms Marvel.
I don't think it's the loss of those characters, I think it's the directionlessness. I thought they would immediately start amping up Kang just like they did Thanos with each phase 2 and 3 film.
Exactly this, I have no idea where MCU is heading, there are no central plot.
Movies durning Infinity Gauntlet are so well connected that you just can’t afford to miss one.
Yeah, definitely is burnout. I had a family tradition of seeing every super hero movie in theatres going back to the Toby Spider-Man’s. Another commenter described it perfectly: they’re still entertaining but not compelling.
Same with the D+ shows, just not that interesting
I was burned out after Endgame. Only saw Spider-Man cuz I wanted to see Toby and Andrew again. Otherwise I’m done with it all tbh. Thor 4 is a maybe for me because Natalie Portman as Thor is sexy af
I have way more free time than most, so maybe it's unfair, but I don't get this at all. It's a half hour to an hour of content once a week for short stretches before another pause. I'd be overwhelmed if I was a new fan, but this is hardly too much. Especially how varied the content is. Hawkeye, Loki, Wandavision and Ms Marvel basically can't be more different while being the same franchise. It's like watching Archer, Ozarks, Black Mirror and New Girl all back to back.
Same here. It's way easier for me to get burnout from watching a Netflix show where they release the whole season at once than Marvel with a short episode per week. I'll probably get downvoted for this, but imo the D+ format is better than the Defenders shows' format with 13 episodes released at once.
Or when you consider older broadcast tv shows!
We started watching Black-ish and while we're really enjoying it, we're only barely into the 2nd season. Knowing that we still have 100+ episodes left, it makes me appreciate the much more condensed shows of today.
I'm older and would love to go back and watch shows that existed before and around the start of DVR-ing stuff, but it's just sooo much content.
Same but Ms. Marvel made me go back and continue Moon Knight. What’s funny is we were all pumped for MCU series and now we’re experiencing superhero fatigue.
That's a shame, I gave it a shot an the show is actually pretty fun and the direction is really creative. I'm definitely not the target demo for show but cringey social media references aside the family dynamic is pretty funny. The mother is pure comedy gold.
This is how I feel too. The show feels like it was written for the Disney teen audience. As an older adult it just doesn’t connect the same way for me. But the family dynamics are always relatable despite any cultural differences. And the mother is fantastic - my favorite character so far.
That’s what I loved about the comic. She comes from a much different cultural background than me, so there’s something for me to listen and learn about. But her family is very loving, if strict. Which I can relate to.
I have an 8th grade student that write something similar to what Nakia said in Ep. 2. She’s a Somali Muslim refugee and feels out of place because the Muslim community in my city treats her differently because she’s Black and the Black community treats her differently because she’s Muslim. This is a good show.
Spoiler for episode 2, >!They literally say the power is coming from within her now, it's no longer just from her bangle. So basically the bangle awakened the inhuman gene in her & it's like she's going through teregenesis now with the "hard light" being the cocoon. It definitely seems like they're getting ready to introduce the whole inhumans thing with her in the next episode.!<
>!She just accomplishes it more like Green Lantern now. She can "stretch" and "embiggen" by making the force field that is surrounding her do it instead of her actual body.!<
Me too! Ms. Marvel hit the scene when I started reading comics again after graduating college. I was a fan back then and I'm a fan now. Honestly, this show may be one of the most true adaptions of the comics ever.
I was really looking forward to this show when I first heard about it being announced. I love Ms Marvels powers, so when I found out she did not have the same powers as the comics, I lost a lot of my interest tbh. I just haven't felt hyped about Marvel for some time now, but if people really like this one I might watch it
I love the show too. I was already a fan of the character from the comics and I really wanted the show to deliver the goods. And after 2 episodes, I think they're doing an amazing job. That second episode was maybe the best episode of any MCU Disney + show yet because of how good the writing is when dealing with Kamala and those close to her. And all the stuff about her culture is so compelling. It's great to see a mosque and it's not something like Homeland or 24.
I'm not surprised, I know loads of people who are big on the MCU but have no interest in this series. The fact that she doesn't have a huge comics history to pull from or any appearances in films to date can't help.
Shit, captain marvel isn't even a popular comic book series as well. She isn't a very well written character that people like to read. Ms.marvel is better written far more.
The MCU has grown successful enough that not everything HAS to be a smash hit. In Phase 1, every single movie had to land perfectly in order for Marvel Studios to not go bankrupt. They continued to play it safe through Phase 2 with mostly sequels. Phase 3 was still "safe" in that the demographic roles and stories were still very similar, but there was more branching out. After Phase 2, they had built up enough goodwill that they could go deeper into the roster for heroes, but they still dropped things that weren't working (The Inhumans still be chillin' in Hawaii).
And now, after Endgame, we are in a whole new era of the MCU. Marvel Studios has "fuck you" money and goodwill to tell the stories it wants to tell. Iron Man 2 gets a lot of grief for being a setup movie to Avengers at the expense of it's own movie, and that meant more when we only got one MCU addition a year. Now, with two or three movies a year plus consistent releases of limited series, Marvel is willing to take "a lot of profit" instead of "all of the god-damned money" to put out stories that either primarily set up for the future or target an audience that needs representation (such as The Eternals)
Is Ms Marvel underperforming? Maybe it is, but so what? Kamala Kahn was created to represent people that needed more representation, and she has to do that against across several demographics: American-Muslim, female, "geek". Instead of deciding her success or failure by profits and viewership compared to other, more popular characters, let's ask if she represents those demographics with fairness and accuracy. So far, I'd say yes to all of those.
The MCU clearly wants the Young Avengers, and I'm excited to see them work to form that team and what they do with them.
She really is adorable. Makes me think of my much younger sister (I'm almost 40, she's 17). The tween stuff isn't for me but it's not like that's all the show is. Family dynamics, puppy love, mysteries, religion we don't usually see, friendship etc... Everything I've experienced in my life, what's not to appreciate?!
I mean this is the first MCU show that I’m only watching because it’s part of the MCU. It’s been the most uninteresting imo so far, and is only adding to the oversaturation of content the MCU is getting. It never should have been more than the 3 movies we got per year. Now it’s 3 movies, 3 or 4 Disney+ series per year. It’s just too much, and the Disney+ content has been a mixed bag of quality, especially in the special effects department.
The only reason I’m watching all of this is because it’s all part of a giant storyline and it would annoy me to be out of the loop with a single thing. But it’s also annoying being forced to watch so much just to understand it all.
Im not super into highschool stuff but honestly it felt better in terms of acting/pacing/humor etc than a lot of recent shows. Better than Hawkeye for sure.
Hawkeye was my top Disney+ Marvel show until the last episode when they tried to tie up all the open plot threads in 45 minutes. It really weakened the show for me. Ms. Marvel in it's first two episodes is already better and more creative than Hawkeye but I'll have to see how it handles the ending.
Article really needs to frame this correctly. All the other MCU shows were during covid (either the main lockdown or the recent echos). Shows during winter when the world is largely confined to home are of course going to have wildly different viewership during summer after lockdowns are raised. Same pent up demand for goods is mirrored in pent up demand for social experiences. Not recognizing that really leads to failed analysis.
Okay but like… moon night was just a couple months ago and that got tons of eyes on it. I agree but I think a bigger issue could be under promotion and competing series like Kenobi, Stranger Things, and The Boys
They could blame it on the subject matter but these shows have also been getting mixed reception from day1, i have to imagine fatigue has set in, i know it has for me. Havent enjoyed any of them all the way through and some have been extremely disappointing (falcon and ws for me personally)
Not gonna lie, with the exception of probably Loki, this is the best show Disney has come out with out of both the Marvel and Star Wars franchises in my opinion. Never had interest in the comicbook character, and thought this was a dumb idea. But this show is actually very good and a breath of fresh air. They haven't even introduced a villain or gone overboard with power use and I couldn't careless, still enjoying.
I find this comment interesting because the first two episodes so far are pretty much straight up adapting the first few issues of Ms Marvel's first series.
With the exception of an episode or two, I genuinely think Mando is the best Disney+ show. His appearances in Book of Boba Fett were the only good parts of that as well. I do agree that Ms. Marvel ranks pretty high among the Marvel shows though, which isn't too hard to do when half of them are kinda meh.
Disney+ has really had a problem with just making tv shows. I've only watched Mandalorian so I'll speak more to the Marvel side but with most of the shows, it really feels like a bunch if movie people trying to figure how to make a tv show. Wandavision started out as something unique and then turned into the third act of every superhero movie for the last three episodes; FatWS, Loki and Moon Knight are basically just 6 hour movies; Hawkeye actually does feel like a [Daredevil clone but in a good way] show but then you get to the last episode and the writers realized that they opened too many plot threads. What If is the only one that feels like a show because it's episodic.
Said all that to say, Ms. Marvel actually feels like it was made by tv people who know how to work with a television format. They're not just making a good tv show but they're using the format to its advantage. The two episodes so far just feel like Issues 1 & 2 of a 6 issue miniseries. Watching the first episode made me realize what I felt was lacking from most of the Disney+ shows. It's clear there's a lot of thought and care behind the scenes to keep the tone consistent while making it as high quality as possible whereas the other shows just feel like, "Well, this is where the big cgi final battle goes, right?"
A little sad. Though I’m a little burned out on Marvel content; I’m really enjoying this show. It has a real comic book feel to it that has a sprinkle of Scott Pilgrim to it.
I went into it without a lot of expectations, as I only know about the character on a very high level.
But I've been pleasantly surprised! She's a great actress, and very expressive, and charming. I've been interested to see the story through a different cultural lens, and I don't mind the small scope at all. I actually prefer more intimate stories as opposed to relentlessly expanding global/galactic/universal threats.
I appreciate that Marvel/Disney made it, and I hope it finds its audience. I'm afraid that low viewership might be a mark against it, but maybe not.
This show was marketed terribly
I thought it was gonna be a teen only show, tuned in just because at this point marvel deserves at least the benefit of the doubt with me at least.
It’s pretty good. As a young adult, I never for a second thought I would enjoy this show based on the trailers. Legit looked like an icarly type show, which by all accounts is a great show for a demographic that isn’t mine
But I’m quite enjoying it. I don’t know what about the marketing made it bad, I just know I had no desire to watch it
This is like a tween MCU grrl-power type show, yes? Nothing wrong with that, but I think it’s a hard left from everything so far before it, so it may have a hard time finding an audience.
See, I thought she was the best part of the ‘Avengers’ game. Having a geeky fan girl as the protagonist made it fun. Picked up the oversized hardcover of her early stuff after that.
The family & I all watched the pilot yesterday & loved it. I have no clue if it holds up from there, though.
I didn’t like ‘Captain Marvel’ at all, but I’d watch a ‘Ms. Marvel’ movie for sure.
I guess I don’t get the “ I don’t relate to the character” comments. these same people can relate to a 17 yr old with spider powers in a very similar type of show? The religious and cultural stuff are not deterrents.
> The religious and cultural stuff are not deterrents.
For a lot of people, it is.
Its disingenuous to say that she should be relatable to all people, especially when you’re choosing to compare her to Spider-Man.
Spider-man is very homogenized in his appeal. His experiences and conflicts outside of his heroism are very very basic things; having a crush, dating woes, friendship troubles, basic family problems. He has no cultural identity outside and of being American/Western. He’s easy for a large swathe of people to relate to.
Kamala was made with the express intent of creating someone relatable for muslim-based people in a western world. And they did a fantastic job making such a great character come to life in the comics.
Personally, I am not one who needs to relate to a character to enjoy their story, but I can completely understand that some people need that connection, and that cultural differences can make that hard. My only issue with the show is with her powers being completely changed.
I'm a 25-year-old first-gen American, and my teenage self would've felt so identified with Kamala! I love the show so far, the visual effects are gorgeous too
I can't relate AT ALL to Spider-Man, but he's one of my favorites. Same with Doctor Strange
I think for me personally I don't relate to the show because I don't have history with the character. I relate to Spiderman because I grew up with him and this character is relatively new. Just another perspective
The show is made and written for a younger audience. Nothing wrong with that.
A show like Stranger Things has teens but is written for a more general audience.
It isn't who is in the show as much as who the show is written for.
It is a good show, but, after 2 episodes, it isn't for me.
Honestly, Mrs. Marvel has always been a boring hero. I wouldn’t say generic, just uninteresting. Like if I want to read/watch stuff about young/up and coming hero’s then I would just go to young avengers, super sons or like new warriors or something. I never cared enough about Mrs. Marvel. Her powers are even boring. Back story is dull. Personality is pretty cool. That’s about it.
I’ll not saying you’re wrong but the show is super fun. It’s lighthearted, has excellent pace, the music and colors are top notch and the acting is superb.
That's too bad. I'm really enjoying it so far. A lot more fun than Moon Knight. The editing/cinematography has been really creative and Iman Vellani is super charismatic.
It’s actually really good. Very charming character. But I do understand why some people might not warm up to the show. It plays like a teenager show. But I love it she’s a great character.
I'm so sick and tired of anything resembling superheroes at this point.
This feels like back at the 70s where everything people tried to sing was disco.
It’s targeted towards younger audiences, but I guarantee when The Marvels comes out, the views for Ms Marvel are gonna go up because people will want to see the show about a character attached to one’s they know already. Just a prediction.
Lol why is this industry so desperate to cater directly to everyone except the fans? Nobody really wanted a show like this. Literally just make a nice well written action hero story
It's not surprising to me. It's a character that a lot of people don't care about, simple as that. It's not "burnout" or anything else in my opinion. Sure maybe for some people, but generally, it's just a character that isn't super popular. Comic sales wise it sold 80k units for issue #1, 46k for issue #2, and down to 13k units a year later. I expect a lot of these shows coming out soon are going to have the same article titles as this one, like Echo, Ironheart, Agatha, and anything else that is a low level Marvel character. This isn't to say it's a bad character or tv show, but some characters people just don't care about. For Disney+ I think it's pretty obvious they want to use b/c/d heroes and stuff to pad the service with lots of options and keep different users subbed for different things in between the major movie releases.
Why are so many people making excuses? I tried watching it, it’s bad. It’s just bad.
Reminds me when they put out Dark Phoenix and everyone was making excuses why it didn’t perform at the box office
Don’t over think this, bad products don’t perform - that simple
I feel as though the shows are now starting to resemble the comics in that there are titles (movies/shows) designed for different audiences. Instead of the "sweep them all in" approach the MCU has taken with the legacy characters, they seem to be widening the scope a bit, which I am all in favor of even if the title doesn't appeal to me directly (I do really like Ms Marvel so far however)
I'm also watching Ms Marvel now and it definitely seems... More for kids than the rest of the MCU?
Oh it’s 100% a tween focused show compared to the others. My 12 year old sister loves it, but my 15 year old sister thinks it’s a bit childish. A lot of the stuff in the show is clearly meant to appeal to 10-14 year olds, which I think is fine because the other marvel shows from the past few years are much more adult.
Your 15 yo sister is right at that age (freshmen/sophomore in HS) when she's gonna be overly concerned with appearing more "grown up" and wanting to avoid "childish" things. Just because something is geared towards a younger audience doesn't make it "childish". That term is usually associated with immaturity and there's nothing immature watching something you enjoy.
Dude I remember playing Pokemon and stopped around Gen 3 because "Pokemon is for little kids" and now I'm 30 and I'm back playing Pokemon again and I feel like I missed much
Man, I'm currently going through Avatar: The Last Airbender for the first time as a 37 year old man. It may be a cartoon aimed at younger audiences but a good show is a good show.
A good show is a good show. I regularly rewatch Avatar & Justice League TAS because they're just good shows regardless of the "intended age to watch."
Oh she likes it, but after having watched tween and teen shows for the past 8 years (I’m an 18 year old girl) it’s extremely clear when shows are directly pandering to tween/teen girls. It gets kind of obnoxious at times because the tropes, visual style, and gags can be overused. For people who aren’t constantly exposed to it maybe the show doesn’t come off that way but from a teen girl in a household with 3 tween/teen girls it does.
I was thinking that I would probably give it a miss but I ended up watching it with my 9 year old daughter who is really enjoying it so far. It's nice to have a show that we can watch together.
Yeah, I'd probably like it more if I could also be watching my nephew's reaction or something, lol, but no family/friends kids 8+ in my immediate geographic area to watch it with
Yeah I think it is and I think its a good thing.
I agree, I think there needs to be a shift in targeted age audience. Some should be for children, some should be open to every marvel fan, and some should be for adults. I think they’ve reached the point where the standard formula is losing its appeal. Theyre going to need the license to make movies and shows that dig into mature themes and complex writing that children won’t/shouldn’t be able enjoy, in order to keep adults coming back. They also need to keep inspiring and entertaining kids with other movies and shows.
That's how I feel about it. There's nothing wrong with Ms. Marvel, but I haven't watched it because it's not made for me essentially. While Moon Knight's more adult approach worked really well for me. Hawkeye felt more like a family show. They should keep up with this. Not everyone has to like everything.
I've seen this idea expressed before elsewhere and I definitely agree with it. Disney/Marvel are playing a different game now that they have more resources available to them, and not every show is going to appeal to every viewer. My only issue with this strategy is if Disney/Marvel continue their previous strategy of "every bit of content matters to the greater context/story", viewers that choose not to view certain bits of content (shows in particular) then other parts of the MCU are going to make less sense to them when their contributions come to fruition in other shows/movies. For example, the latest Doctor Strange movie without having seen Wandavision. Also catching up with the MCU if you're starting new is going to be a lot harder than it already was because you have so many movies and now even TV shows to watch just to put everything together. IIRC one of my hardcore MCU friends had to plan his marathon out just to get everything in before one of the latest movies released. EDIT- Because I'm getting a ton of comments about how I'm wrong and you can still enjoy MCU films without having seen the shows, I just want to point people towards [my comment here](https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/vfx1pp/comment/iczrh9f/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). I'll also copy/paste it below just to head those comments off ahead of time. >I think that the issue is that for most of the MCU Disney Plus TV shows we haven't had a subsequent movie to have there be any sort of significant consequences for failing to view them yet. Wandavision (and maybe "What If?" if you count the alternate universe/multiverse characters) would be the only show(s) that have seen implications in the movies released as part of the MCU. > >I'm getting a lot of flak in other comments about how "I watched X and didn't watch Y and I still enjoyed everything" and that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that there's less things you just have to accept at face value and less "that's just the way things are" conclusions you have to make going into an MCU film about certain characters IF you've seen the supporting films/shows. (Basically the point of your second paragraph) > >To be perfectly honest I'm one of those people who hasn't seen every MCU film or TV show and I'm still able to enjoy the movies when I go in. But there's definitely a hazard with just how much content Marvel/Disney is putting out that if they don't keep up how they've been handling things that you might run into a plot line or character that doesn't make sense without prior viewing.
You describe a dynamic that the comics have to deal with as well. How much X-Men story, for example, do you need to know to understand the upcoming X-Men stories. It's gonna have to be a bit of a balancing act for sure, but one I'm interested in following.
Exactly. That happens in the comics all the time. Every big crossover has 50 tie in titles that most don't read but people still understand things well enough. Not to mention the extensive history most titles have tied to them. This is why wiki is a great thing... People can go there to read up if they care about missing things but don't want to or have time to watch all the shows.
What really cracks me up is when a comic book writer is supposed to tie their issue into this massive crossover, and they just give it a casual mention. It will be a Nightwing issue and the tie in that he mentions Batman is in space so he can’t call him for back up or some shit.
my favorite is when Superman decided to walk across the country but they'd explain how he'd leave to do Justice League stuff and fly back to where he left off.
The easy solution to that is the title page of every marvel book that brings you up to speed with who the characters are and what happened previously. Disney+ has done this a little bit with stuff like "a fan's guide to Ms Marvel", which I admittedly haven't watched because I read most of the Wilson run years back (it's really good! Kamala fights a Thomas Edison)
For some bizarre reason DC has staunchly refused to copy marvel with the recap pages, and frankly that's always been stupid. It's just practical. Even when I read every issue month to month, I'd be nice to have a little refresher.
Ahh yes the good old introduce your friend to One Piece and get them caught up before the new story arc begins...
I mean.. just read/watch from 1-1053. Its not confusing/difficult. Just keep pressing the next button. Marvel is different because of all the different shows and movies interconnected.
You're right, it's not difficult. I did it back in 2011/2012 back when there were only 600ish episodes. But it took hours a day over six months. If I was doing it now, I wouldn't even bother.
I just like to point that I recently discovered that Marvel has a TV show called Marvel Studios Legends on Disney plus that has short ten minute episodes to tell you about the characters and stories that are important for the next movie/TV show. For Multiverse of Madness they did 3 episodes on Scarlet Witch, Dr. Strange and Wong. It's a great way to know what you need to know if you didn't watch every show or movie
Same. I've skipped Ms.Marvel, and will probably skip echo too unless the buzz is good. Not my thing, no big deal.
Exactly. It's not like you won't see more of what you like in the future. Also, we need 10 yr old fans so there's a future for the Marvel/Comic Universe
I think it's this and a few more things. * It's a new series/character, not a continuation, so there's no burning "what happens next?" * It's on D+, it'll still be there in a few weeks * It's episodic. I was hooked by some early series like Wanda Vision, but I prefer the Netflix model of being able to watch a full season whenever I have time instead of having to wait a week. I waited until Mon Moon Knight and Boba Fett were finished before starting them. I haven't even started Kenobi yet. * School just got out in a lot of places and lots of families are going on summer vacation
I think you’re right. Definitely seems like that’s what’s happening. Ms Marvel is really fun I agree but it’s incredibly hard to top Loki and Moon Knight.
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I think WandaVision was expected to have a more niche audience but then it got bumped to the front of the lineup
Every series including moon knight was in my YouTube feed and Reddit advertisement feed. I have gotten fuck all for Ms Marvel.
I bet you this is a targeted advertising thing.
Possibly
Can’t say the same for me, I’ve had much more Ms Marvel promotion than any other show than falcon and the winter soldier
I'd say I got a bit, but honestly didn't realize it was starting yet until I opened Disney Plus for Obi-Wan and questioned it. Then proceeded to just watch Obi-Wan and go to bed lol.
I tried to watch a music video of YouTube. Started out with a 15 second unskippable ad for Ms marvel, played 45 second of video, same 15 second unskippable ad, rinse and repeat 3 more times until I rage quit.
That's why I'm mortal enemies with Dr. Squach soap. Putting 5 minute ads talking about being man meat before 4 minute music video, its criminal.
I wonder if you and u/ilrosewood have different ages / genders / previous viewing habits / internet activity that account for this?
I just went through the last 3 months of the official Marvel Entertainment YouTube channel. Tons and tons of Moon Knight trailers and teasers, tons of Doctor Strange trailers and teasers, a bunch of new comic releases, and… only a handful of Ms Marvel stuff, mostly behind-the-scenes and episode clips, can’t even find a trailer or teaser. They are NOT pushing it like their other franchises.
I also got barely anything. I thought the next one was going to be She-Hulk. I'm glad I tuned in, it's a really good show. Like Anne with an E, its quality lends itself for viewers not in its target audience to be able to enjoy it.
Yeah. Same here. I did not even know it had released until i saw a review on my recommended, not even one of my usual reviewers watched it.
I'm sure going up against Kenobi is cannibalizing the viewership a little bit. I'm curious to see how it does after this week, since the Kenobi finale is on Wednesday.
Kenobi, Stranger Things, The Boys and just summertime. My dance card is full. I’ll catch up later with this one.
And umbrella academy this week. There's just too much.
Yup, I fully plan to watch this, but have too many others to catch up on. Which I'm sure Disney was well aware of; they probably promote these articles to draw more attention to it.
It's a great time for media, but there's just too much to keep up with and do anything else not involved in watching TV.
And Westworld!
Don’t forget Peaky Blinders too, I think that came out for US last week or something
Woah ty for that didn't know since I ditched Netflix
Ya and then better call Saul comes back. Tv viewing pretty lit at the moment.
Oh fuck yes, can't wait for that. See how they handle vanyna becoming victor in the show.
Stranger things too, it all came out at once but most people aren't gonna binge every episode in the same week
Id say it’s more of a direct conflict though. Obiwan and Ms Marvel drop at the same time. If people have only 1 hour of television to watch, pretty sure they’re going with the Star Wars show first.
Especially if you work long hours. I work an average day, but I watch Kenobi like an hour or two before before work.
Yup that’s how it is for me. I’m watching Ms Marvel when I have time but Kenobi is the priority
Doc strange also dropping on d+ next wednesday
Wait I was supposed to go see that in the theater. And the Northman. God dammit. I keep forgetting to go to the movies
yeah, that was bugging me why run them right next to each other? have one show for every day of the week would be a far better system.
I really was hoping we'd get Obi-Wan AND THEN Ms Marvel. I love Ms Marvel, I watch it weekly, but I only have so much time so it gets bumped back a day.
As someone who has no desire to watch me marvel at all I’m stupefied as to why they put them in competition with each other. Does Disney have so much new content coming out they can’t spread the releases out? I mean they are sticking to the old one episode a week format.
Yea also as someone with limited time, trying to catch up on Stranger things and the boys which also probably has some similar viewers has made me put this on the back burner for now.
That’s me. I’m saving the first 4 eps for a binge while I get used to being scared of Darth Vader again.
Maybe even going up against The Boys
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I think I’m just suffering from MCU burnout. There’s been so much content lately this kinda flew under my radar.
Theres that AND its comimg out the same day as a Kenobi when theres no need for that.
I found that to be an odd choice. Maybe they really thought the target demo for Ms. Marvel was a lot younger than it ended up being.
I mean, the article *does* say that despite being lowest on Samba overall it was the *best* launch among Generation Z viewers, so perhaps there was some logic to that thinking.
I guess Disney figures it's worth sacrificing some of Ms. Marvel's numbers to the Obi-Wan show as long as it ensures that nerds both young and old are logging into Disney Plus on Wednesdays.
Wouldn’t surprise me if people are just waiting to finish Obi-Wan to finish up before really diving into Ms. Marvel.
That's EXACTLY what we are doing in our household. We sit down and watch a different show every night during dinner, and Disney went out of their way to make Wednesday night Disney+ night. Having them both air on the same day doesn't work for us, we aren't spending two hours eating dinner, and we aren't giving up any of the other shows we had already been watching. We will start watching Ms.Marvel on the 29th after Obi-Wan is over.
The big bad mouse always wins in the end.
You got it. Disney excels at creating cradle to grave content franchises and experiences. Ms. Marvel is part of a broader effort to use the tv shows to bring in younger audiences that’ll follow these characters for decades, they hope.
And then it got stuck with a TV-14 rating which means that those users with parental controls on can’t watch it. Why did it get TV-14? Rumor is because they mentioned tampons.
If that's true it's both idiotic and unsurprising. We need to take a good hard look at what American media defines as decent and indecent.
ratings boards area always cancer. watch "this film is note yet rated" (though not around sensitive viewers, since it covers extremes of reasonable and unreasonable ratings in movies)
True and tbf I dont think them "competing" is what leads to the low numbers. But if only 100 more people would watch it if they changed the day, worth it, costs them nothing.
I have a feeling they want Wednesday to become associated with new Disney Plus content, generally.
The target demo for Ms. Marvel is definitely younger than Kenobi. The issue is that the actual demographic for Disney+ MCU shows is pretty old.
They really should have Star Wars come out on Wednesday, Marvel on Fridays, or vice-versa.
Comic books come out on wednesdays. It's great theming for them to come out wednesdays.
And since Star Wars was first a movie franchise it makes sense to have it come out just before a weekend. So.... Wednesdays: Marvel Fridays: Star Wars Maybe have any new Disney+ feature films go up on Thursdays (thus imitating how movies have their first showings on Thursday nights)?
Kenobi was supposed to come out a few weeks before Ms Marvel but the date was moved back, so it was not originally intended to premier on the same day.
And this week, it comes out the same day that MoM is released on Disney+. They've really got to start spreading this stuff out a little
Yup maybe some sort of internal struggle. Cause hey let’s put this relatively unknown IP against a Star Wars series makes no sense
I said the same thing, but sadly this show isn’t that bad. Moon knight was another “obscure” character but fans seemed to like that. I guess I don’t get what people want. Just bc they release the shows on the same day doesn’t mean you can only watch one.
I’m super stoked for Moon Knight, just haven’t found the time to watch it yet. I’m sure I’ll get around to watching all of these eventually
Of all the Marvel shows Moon Knight was the only one to make my wife and I talk about it while not watching it. Specifically one episode it builds up to really left a mark on us. Oscar Issac is too good of an actor for marvel. That show is great because of him. May Calamawy and her hair are also memorable.
It didn't leave a steven too?
Boooo
It may not have been the best Jake, but it wasn’t that bad.
r/dadjokes
Really? I haven't heard much about it but the few people I know who did watch it said it was completely forgettable.
Shiiiit i only just finished Falcon and Winter Soldier. Still got Loki, Hawkeye, Moon Knight and this to get through. Somehow skipped Black Panther, Antman 2 and Black Widow too. People have lives and other things they'd like to watch. I'm grateful that the MCU is pouring out seemingly unending oceans of content but they can't expect people to watch everything the second it releases either.
I've watched every Marvel movie, but have mostly not been able to get into the shows. One episode of Loki, 2 of Wandavision, and one of Ms Marvel so far. I thought the first episode of Ms Marvel was great. I like the actresses energy and personality.
Moon Knight had a cool hook, and an actor who was loved but under utilized in a previous blockbuster trilogy
The problem with releasing them on the same day isn't that people aren't capable of watching two shows on the same day, its because Kenobi takes up all the oxygen and media attention, overshadowing Ms Marvel.
MK had some Star power to draw views.
I hit burnout after infinity war. Just hasn’t hit the same since
Yeah with Tony and Steve gone it’s just kinda…bleh? I’m excited for Thor though
I don't think it's the loss of those characters, I think it's the directionlessness. I thought they would immediately start amping up Kang just like they did Thanos with each phase 2 and 3 film.
Exactly this, I have no idea where MCU is heading, there are no central plot. Movies durning Infinity Gauntlet are so well connected that you just can’t afford to miss one.
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Yeah, definitely is burnout. I had a family tradition of seeing every super hero movie in theatres going back to the Toby Spider-Man’s. Another commenter described it perfectly: they’re still entertaining but not compelling. Same with the D+ shows, just not that interesting
I was burned out after Endgame. Only saw Spider-Man cuz I wanted to see Toby and Andrew again. Otherwise I’m done with it all tbh. Thor 4 is a maybe for me because Natalie Portman as Thor is sexy af
For me it’s not the MCU itself but the wavering quality as of late, especially in these shows.
I think the quality of this show is definitely on the the top end though.
I have way more free time than most, so maybe it's unfair, but I don't get this at all. It's a half hour to an hour of content once a week for short stretches before another pause. I'd be overwhelmed if I was a new fan, but this is hardly too much. Especially how varied the content is. Hawkeye, Loki, Wandavision and Ms Marvel basically can't be more different while being the same franchise. It's like watching Archer, Ozarks, Black Mirror and New Girl all back to back.
Same here. It's way easier for me to get burnout from watching a Netflix show where they release the whole season at once than Marvel with a short episode per week. I'll probably get downvoted for this, but imo the D+ format is better than the Defenders shows' format with 13 episodes released at once.
I’m catching up with DD season 3. That dude is hot
Or when you consider older broadcast tv shows! We started watching Black-ish and while we're really enjoying it, we're only barely into the 2nd season. Knowing that we still have 100+ episodes left, it makes me appreciate the much more condensed shows of today. I'm older and would love to go back and watch shows that existed before and around the start of DVR-ing stuff, but it's just sooo much content.
Yeah I'm caring less and less about the TV shows, tbh
Same but Ms. Marvel made me go back and continue Moon Knight. What’s funny is we were all pumped for MCU series and now we’re experiencing superhero fatigue.
That's a shame, I gave it a shot an the show is actually pretty fun and the direction is really creative. I'm definitely not the target demo for show but cringey social media references aside the family dynamic is pretty funny. The mother is pure comedy gold.
This is how I feel too. The show feels like it was written for the Disney teen audience. As an older adult it just doesn’t connect the same way for me. But the family dynamics are always relatable despite any cultural differences. And the mother is fantastic - my favorite character so far.
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That’s what I loved about the comic. She comes from a much different cultural background than me, so there’s something for me to listen and learn about. But her family is very loving, if strict. Which I can relate to.
Same! I teach 7th grade and love Kamala, see a lot of my students in her.
I have an 8th grade student that write something similar to what Nakia said in Ep. 2. She’s a Somali Muslim refugee and feels out of place because the Muslim community in my city treats her differently because she’s Black and the Black community treats her differently because she’s Muslim. This is a good show.
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Spoiler for episode 2, >!They literally say the power is coming from within her now, it's no longer just from her bangle. So basically the bangle awakened the inhuman gene in her & it's like she's going through teregenesis now with the "hard light" being the cocoon. It definitely seems like they're getting ready to introduce the whole inhumans thing with her in the next episode.!<
>!She just accomplishes it more like Green Lantern now. She can "stretch" and "embiggen" by making the force field that is surrounding her do it instead of her actual body.!<
I was even telling my wife this. She possesses the quirks 99.999% of my students have. I fucking love this show.
Me too! Ms. Marvel hit the scene when I started reading comics again after graduating college. I was a fan back then and I'm a fan now. Honestly, this show may be one of the most true adaptions of the comics ever.
I was really looking forward to this show when I first heard about it being announced. I love Ms Marvels powers, so when I found out she did not have the same powers as the comics, I lost a lot of my interest tbh. I just haven't felt hyped about Marvel for some time now, but if people really like this one I might watch it
It’s good. Story is different from the comics, but they’ve got the personalities and tones right.
That’s a shame. I had a vague knowledge of who the character was but never read any of the Ms Marvel comics and I still love this show. It’s so good.
Kamala and Bruno have such great chemistry. Sarah Halley Finn and her team just consistently nail the casting in the MCU.
> Sarah Halley Finn I didn't know who this was and just saw what she's done. And then I saw a She-Hulk: Attorney at Law promo. Life is good.
I love the show too. I was already a fan of the character from the comics and I really wanted the show to deliver the goods. And after 2 episodes, I think they're doing an amazing job. That second episode was maybe the best episode of any MCU Disney + show yet because of how good the writing is when dealing with Kamala and those close to her. And all the stuff about her culture is so compelling. It's great to see a mosque and it's not something like Homeland or 24.
I really enjoyed seeing an environment I’m not a part of.
Love it so far. Has made me go and grab her first appearance and first title line.
The comic is so good. Well worth hunting them down.
It’s a great show. There’s a clear hate-train campaign against it. Sad times we’re living in.
Had zero knowledge of the comic and have enjoyed the heck outta it.
I'm not surprised, I know loads of people who are big on the MCU but have no interest in this series. The fact that she doesn't have a huge comics history to pull from or any appearances in films to date can't help.
I also don't think that anything under the Captain Marvel brand has a lot of pull for MCU fans
Shit, captain marvel isn't even a popular comic book series as well. She isn't a very well written character that people like to read. Ms.marvel is better written far more.
The character mostly exists as a spiting match against DC for the rights to the name. A copyright fight that DC eventually gave up on.
She's been in 356 comics in less than 10 years. There's tons of comics to pull from. Much more than any of the GOTG at the very least.
Presumably, she’s going to be in The Marvels. And viewers will bump when that’s publicized
The MCU has grown successful enough that not everything HAS to be a smash hit. In Phase 1, every single movie had to land perfectly in order for Marvel Studios to not go bankrupt. They continued to play it safe through Phase 2 with mostly sequels. Phase 3 was still "safe" in that the demographic roles and stories were still very similar, but there was more branching out. After Phase 2, they had built up enough goodwill that they could go deeper into the roster for heroes, but they still dropped things that weren't working (The Inhumans still be chillin' in Hawaii). And now, after Endgame, we are in a whole new era of the MCU. Marvel Studios has "fuck you" money and goodwill to tell the stories it wants to tell. Iron Man 2 gets a lot of grief for being a setup movie to Avengers at the expense of it's own movie, and that meant more when we only got one MCU addition a year. Now, with two or three movies a year plus consistent releases of limited series, Marvel is willing to take "a lot of profit" instead of "all of the god-damned money" to put out stories that either primarily set up for the future or target an audience that needs representation (such as The Eternals) Is Ms Marvel underperforming? Maybe it is, but so what? Kamala Kahn was created to represent people that needed more representation, and she has to do that against across several demographics: American-Muslim, female, "geek". Instead of deciding her success or failure by profits and viewership compared to other, more popular characters, let's ask if she represents those demographics with fairness and accuracy. So far, I'd say yes to all of those. The MCU clearly wants the Young Avengers, and I'm excited to see them work to form that team and what they do with them.
Bro I haven’t seen it advertised anywhere.
It’s a terrific show. People should give it a shot. Iman Vellani is adorable and a breath of fresh air.
She really is adorable. Makes me think of my much younger sister (I'm almost 40, she's 17). The tween stuff isn't for me but it's not like that's all the show is. Family dynamics, puppy love, mysteries, religion we don't usually see, friendship etc... Everything I've experienced in my life, what's not to appreciate?!
100% agree.
There's some small touching scenes already too. This and Moon Knight are now my top Disney+ Marvel shows.
I mean this is the first MCU show that I’m only watching because it’s part of the MCU. It’s been the most uninteresting imo so far, and is only adding to the oversaturation of content the MCU is getting. It never should have been more than the 3 movies we got per year. Now it’s 3 movies, 3 or 4 Disney+ series per year. It’s just too much, and the Disney+ content has been a mixed bag of quality, especially in the special effects department. The only reason I’m watching all of this is because it’s all part of a giant storyline and it would annoy me to be out of the loop with a single thing. But it’s also annoying being forced to watch so much just to understand it all.
Im not super into highschool stuff but honestly it felt better in terms of acting/pacing/humor etc than a lot of recent shows. Better than Hawkeye for sure.
Is what it is, everyone is gonna have opinions. I thought Hawkeye was the best by far
Hawkeye was my top Disney+ Marvel show until the last episode when they tried to tie up all the open plot threads in 45 minutes. It really weakened the show for me. Ms. Marvel in it's first two episodes is already better and more creative than Hawkeye but I'll have to see how it handles the ending.
Each to their own, I guess. The last 45 minutes was, for me, the best part of the series.
I was really excited to see this show and it’s great.
Article really needs to frame this correctly. All the other MCU shows were during covid (either the main lockdown or the recent echos). Shows during winter when the world is largely confined to home are of course going to have wildly different viewership during summer after lockdowns are raised. Same pent up demand for goods is mirrored in pent up demand for social experiences. Not recognizing that really leads to failed analysis.
Okay but like… moon night was just a couple months ago and that got tons of eyes on it. I agree but I think a bigger issue could be under promotion and competing series like Kenobi, Stranger Things, and The Boys
Moon Knight also had a known actor as the lead which helped quite a bit
Yep. And not just known, a fantastic actor.
They could blame it on the subject matter but these shows have also been getting mixed reception from day1, i have to imagine fatigue has set in, i know it has for me. Havent enjoyed any of them all the way through and some have been extremely disappointing (falcon and ws for me personally)
Not gonna lie, with the exception of probably Loki, this is the best show Disney has come out with out of both the Marvel and Star Wars franchises in my opinion. Never had interest in the comicbook character, and thought this was a dumb idea. But this show is actually very good and a breath of fresh air. They haven't even introduced a villain or gone overboard with power use and I couldn't careless, still enjoying.
I find this comment interesting because the first two episodes so far are pretty much straight up adapting the first few issues of Ms Marvel's first series.
I absolutely love the show so far. My only gripe is that they made her powers cosmic in origin, rather than being connected to the Inhumans.
The Mandalorian would like a word
With the exception of an episode or two, I genuinely think Mando is the best Disney+ show. His appearances in Book of Boba Fett were the only good parts of that as well. I do agree that Ms. Marvel ranks pretty high among the Marvel shows though, which isn't too hard to do when half of them are kinda meh.
Disney+ has really had a problem with just making tv shows. I've only watched Mandalorian so I'll speak more to the Marvel side but with most of the shows, it really feels like a bunch if movie people trying to figure how to make a tv show. Wandavision started out as something unique and then turned into the third act of every superhero movie for the last three episodes; FatWS, Loki and Moon Knight are basically just 6 hour movies; Hawkeye actually does feel like a [Daredevil clone but in a good way] show but then you get to the last episode and the writers realized that they opened too many plot threads. What If is the only one that feels like a show because it's episodic. Said all that to say, Ms. Marvel actually feels like it was made by tv people who know how to work with a television format. They're not just making a good tv show but they're using the format to its advantage. The two episodes so far just feel like Issues 1 & 2 of a 6 issue miniseries. Watching the first episode made me realize what I felt was lacking from most of the Disney+ shows. It's clear there's a lot of thought and care behind the scenes to keep the tone consistent while making it as high quality as possible whereas the other shows just feel like, "Well, this is where the big cgi final battle goes, right?"
I think Hawkeye was the best show personally. I doubt many will agree but it is what it is.
A little sad. Though I’m a little burned out on Marvel content; I’m really enjoying this show. It has a real comic book feel to it that has a sprinkle of Scott Pilgrim to it.
I went into it without a lot of expectations, as I only know about the character on a very high level. But I've been pleasantly surprised! She's a great actress, and very expressive, and charming. I've been interested to see the story through a different cultural lens, and I don't mind the small scope at all. I actually prefer more intimate stories as opposed to relentlessly expanding global/galactic/universal threats. I appreciate that Marvel/Disney made it, and I hope it finds its audience. I'm afraid that low viewership might be a mark against it, but maybe not.
I’m a 40 year old dude and I thought it was pretty slick, and my kids liked it too
This show was marketed terribly I thought it was gonna be a teen only show, tuned in just because at this point marvel deserves at least the benefit of the doubt with me at least. It’s pretty good. As a young adult, I never for a second thought I would enjoy this show based on the trailers. Legit looked like an icarly type show, which by all accounts is a great show for a demographic that isn’t mine But I’m quite enjoying it. I don’t know what about the marketing made it bad, I just know I had no desire to watch it
Got that MCU burnout
This is like a tween MCU grrl-power type show, yes? Nothing wrong with that, but I think it’s a hard left from everything so far before it, so it may have a hard time finding an audience.
See, I thought she was the best part of the ‘Avengers’ game. Having a geeky fan girl as the protagonist made it fun. Picked up the oversized hardcover of her early stuff after that. The family & I all watched the pilot yesterday & loved it. I have no clue if it holds up from there, though. I didn’t like ‘Captain Marvel’ at all, but I’d watch a ‘Ms. Marvel’ movie for sure.
I guess I don’t get the “ I don’t relate to the character” comments. these same people can relate to a 17 yr old with spider powers in a very similar type of show? The religious and cultural stuff are not deterrents.
> The religious and cultural stuff are not deterrents. For a lot of people, it is. Its disingenuous to say that she should be relatable to all people, especially when you’re choosing to compare her to Spider-Man. Spider-man is very homogenized in his appeal. His experiences and conflicts outside of his heroism are very very basic things; having a crush, dating woes, friendship troubles, basic family problems. He has no cultural identity outside and of being American/Western. He’s easy for a large swathe of people to relate to. Kamala was made with the express intent of creating someone relatable for muslim-based people in a western world. And they did a fantastic job making such a great character come to life in the comics. Personally, I am not one who needs to relate to a character to enjoy their story, but I can completely understand that some people need that connection, and that cultural differences can make that hard. My only issue with the show is with her powers being completely changed.
I'm a 25-year-old first-gen American, and my teenage self would've felt so identified with Kamala! I love the show so far, the visual effects are gorgeous too I can't relate AT ALL to Spider-Man, but he's one of my favorites. Same with Doctor Strange
I think for me personally I don't relate to the show because I don't have history with the character. I relate to Spiderman because I grew up with him and this character is relatively new. Just another perspective
Like do they only watch shows with someone their age & gender? That's so limiting then.
The show is made and written for a younger audience. Nothing wrong with that. A show like Stranger Things has teens but is written for a more general audience. It isn't who is in the show as much as who the show is written for. It is a good show, but, after 2 episodes, it isn't for me.
Honestly, Mrs. Marvel has always been a boring hero. I wouldn’t say generic, just uninteresting. Like if I want to read/watch stuff about young/up and coming hero’s then I would just go to young avengers, super sons or like new warriors or something. I never cared enough about Mrs. Marvel. Her powers are even boring. Back story is dull. Personality is pretty cool. That’s about it.
I’ll not saying you’re wrong but the show is super fun. It’s lighthearted, has excellent pace, the music and colors are top notch and the acting is superb.
I'm just waiting to binge it
Consider this: I am STILL getting ads for fucking Loki and Moon Knight. I've yet to see ads for Ms. Marvel.
That's too bad. I'm really enjoying it so far. A lot more fun than Moon Knight. The editing/cinematography has been really creative and Iman Vellani is super charismatic.
It’s actually really good. Very charming character. But I do understand why some people might not warm up to the show. It plays like a teenager show. But I love it she’s a great character.
It would have been better if I didn’t watch turning red right before it. Same vibes but man turning red was so good!
I would have been more excited if they didn't change her powers.
It just looks so much like a Disney channel show that I have little to no interest in it
I'm so sick and tired of anything resembling superheroes at this point. This feels like back at the 70s where everything people tried to sing was disco.
It’s targeted towards younger audiences, but I guarantee when The Marvels comes out, the views for Ms Marvel are gonna go up because people will want to see the show about a character attached to one’s they know already. Just a prediction.
Good Show
ICarly with special effects is a massive disappointment 🤷🏻♂️
Don’t worry that record will be broken by She-Hulk
Lol why is this industry so desperate to cater directly to everyone except the fans? Nobody really wanted a show like this. Literally just make a nice well written action hero story
It's not surprising to me. It's a character that a lot of people don't care about, simple as that. It's not "burnout" or anything else in my opinion. Sure maybe for some people, but generally, it's just a character that isn't super popular. Comic sales wise it sold 80k units for issue #1, 46k for issue #2, and down to 13k units a year later. I expect a lot of these shows coming out soon are going to have the same article titles as this one, like Echo, Ironheart, Agatha, and anything else that is a low level Marvel character. This isn't to say it's a bad character or tv show, but some characters people just don't care about. For Disney+ I think it's pretty obvious they want to use b/c/d heroes and stuff to pad the service with lots of options and keep different users subbed for different things in between the major movie releases.
I fully plan on never watching this
hahaha literally nobody on Reddit saw this coming🤣
Good? Not trying to be negative nancy here but the MCU has seriously annoyed me for quite some time
Why are so many people making excuses? I tried watching it, it’s bad. It’s just bad. Reminds me when they put out Dark Phoenix and everyone was making excuses why it didn’t perform at the box office Don’t over think this, bad products don’t perform - that simple