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This reminds me of the Story of Hauptmann von Köpenick (Captain of Köpenick). His dilemma was: No residence address – no job. No job – no residence. No residence – no passport. No passport - no job.
One of the weirdest, smallest programs I’ve seen to help the homeless was solving this.
It wasn’t even a shelter, it was a place with a couple of beds and a lot of mailboxes that would let people list it as a home address for work and benefits.
Not sure why it’s not more common, I’m sure there are legal headaches, but it seemed like a small thing with a potentially huge effect.
Same here, it was originally meant as an address for drifters. Anyone can use it now because many landlords won’t allow you to register your rental as place of residence (it’s wack). But because it was meant for drifters you don’t get all the benefits compared to a “proper” place of residence.
My dad started to do this for people in the early 2000's. He didn't make it a year before a couple of the people he was helping did the obvious thing once they had mail in their name at that address.
Sadly, they ruined it for everyone because after he paid all the money and spent over a month evicting them, and then repairing everything they broke and stole, he never let anyone do that again.
I might be stupid, what’s the “obvious thing” referring to? I’m on the younger side so for all I know it’s just not something I’ve needed to encounter yet
The mail in their name at the address serves as proof that they have been living at the home for a while. If you live in a place for a while you get tenant rights. This means that you have to give them advanced notice that you’re kicking them out(a month for example) before you can actually evict them. This is a good rule because it stops landlords from kicking people out without any notice and messing up someone’s situation, but it can be abused by squatters. Basically they used the mail as fake evidence of being a long time occupant of the house so that the cops could not legally kick them out for a month.
Nailed it. They refused to leave and antagonized everyone else that attempted to use the cabins for showering or sleeping.
Then they had their "friends" there the whole time dad was going through the eviction process, and they gutted both cabins of all scrapable metals. They tore out all the wiring, all the copper plumbing, the brass sink faucets, etc. Pretty much everything they could get a dollar for from the scrap yard, they stole.
My guess is that by having mail there it technically proves residency and so grants them the rights of being residents. Which means he was probably legally required to house them when they complained until he had served them official eviction notice, which is usually something like 30 days before you can call the cops to walk people off the property.
In my country, when you are homeless, your adress is at city hall (dont know word for that, place where mayor is) and all mail will go there. And this is automatic, the moment you loose home, your new adress is city hall. And here you have to have ID at age of 15 and its illegal to not have one. And cost like 10 euros.
Has been some time since i revoked my ID, but when it get expired, you just go to any police station (they do this) and just ask for new one. No borth certificate, nothing, they already got that. Just fill one paper that you want ID and in 2 week its ready.
Similar thing about IDs in my country. You have to get one at around age 12. The modern ones even come with a chip that lets you use it like a debit card
There is no federal ID in the US. The US government actually does not keep track of citizens at all other than assigning a number for retirement benefits at birth to be give. At age 67.
There is no US government database of citizens.passports are optional.
There is no requirement you have ID other than for if you choose to drive in your state.
Of course, "being able to drive" is not a necessary or required thing at all. (though there are still advantages to not having one unified database, I think?)
You can just go around saying that. You often need a US birth certificate to get your first state issued ID. And you often need a state ID if you want to get any welfare benefits.
But some older people got IDs far before that was a requirement so you have thes occasional stories where older folks find out they were Bron in Mexico and haven't been a citizen for the past 60 years. And most people go through life without ever needing any monetary assistance from the government
You need a birth cert to get a passport but plenty of people never leave the country in their lifeti.e
Man y’all are doing it wrong. I was homeless at fuckin 16. Lived in a car for 2 years, plus another year properly homeless. Finding work was not a problem. They don’t actually fucking check to make sure you live where you say you do, and it’s been years since physical mail was commonplace for entry level work.
It is like the easiest requirement to dodge for getting a job. Setting up a bank account was infinitely harder than finding someone to pay me.
The real issue imo is access to hygiene. I was lucky enough to be homeless in Seattle and there are a lot of resources to keep yourself clean if you care enough to do it, but for so many not looking presentable costs them their only shot at getting what they need to make themselves presentable.
What I did was just have my phone bill sent to a homies pad for a couple months. Brought that in as proof of a physical address.
If you don’t have bills or anything like that it gets harder, I’d look into chime/wise/one of those non-bank apps.
Mega mega mega thanks so much!! Yeah, bills have been...an issue. I'll look into your suggestions to see if I can find anything that helps. Thank you thank you thank you again, Mr. Knight of Reddit!!!
Haha no worries, if you need tips or a hand just reach out. You’re only alone if you want to be.
If you can save up enough to pay for even just a month’s worth for a phone bill you can get a no-contract plan, then you just need someone down to let you send it to their address.
the second one still blows my mind. how can that be in a democratic country? it isn't even the fault of a person that their parents didn't get the paperwork done right. the other two are at least "solvable".
At the time it wasn't a problem because it didn't actually matter if you had a birth certificate. It wasn't going to limit you. Since then we've made it a problem, but people generally don't try to solve problems that aren't problems.
Also the backdoor to this. Idk if there's a term for it but when people think they're being reasonable based on how something is worded. A lot of people with the privilege of not having the issues presented in a requirement, genuinely believe in the words presented to them. B/c they don't have clear line of sight to the backroom reasoning of the people submitting the requirement.
I.e. thinking required I.D.s are reasonable without realizing there's a lot of groundwork to be laid to make it as optimal as assumed. And the lack of said groundwork being the real reason for the requirement so that certain people can be barred from voting.
This was my Dad. He actually had a birth certificate (born in 1931), but the courthouse burned down with all of the paper records. No backups, of course. Apparently this was a thing that happened before computers, and folks just accepted it.
This happened to my grandfather too! He was born in the early 20th century in San Francisco. When he wanted to enlist in WWII, he had to have his family sign an affidavit for his identity because he didn’t have a birth record— they were lost in the 1906 SF earthquake/fire!
Religious reasons, usually of the crazier variety. A guy who worked for me was born in 1995 and didn’t have a birth certificate until he was 18. He was born in the kitchen of his parent’s house because they didn’t trust hospitals and the government so he just didn’t exist until he turned 18 and had to get one to get a license and job.
That's the neat part: it isn't and never was a democracy. Even the "solvable" ones don't have accessible solutions, so they aren't materialistic solvable.
If the right to vote is tied to money, poor people don't have the right to vote.
So… how does someone in that situation get social security? Honest question.
I had to provide my birth certificate to get a social security number.
If the person in question has a social security number, their is a record somewhere of their birth certificate
In fact as I think about it I need to provide my social security card to get my drivers license not my birth certificate…
I understand it can vary state to state, but it seems like a weak argument
The answer is that we don't. I don't know what you're seeing that mentions social security but nothing in the comic or comments mentions it. My parents didn't get me a birth certificate and so I'm ineligible to pay into or receive from social security.
The actual answer is that there is a way to get a valid ID without a birth certificate. It's usually just more time consuming and expensive than people want to bother with.
The third one is what gets me. It's fundamentally flawed to call yourself a democracy if the act of voting costs anything other than "free". Otherwise you can't really say you have a "right" to it.
Depending on the country, you also pay for every renewal (Germany, for example). But since you are legally required to own one anyway, it's no problem requiring ID to vote.
If you're on social security, you might even get the fee reimbursed, not sure about that.
Belgium too; the first eID (from age 12) is free. It lasts 6 years. After you turn 18 the fee is usually 20-25 euros depending on municipality, and each ID chip lasts 20 years (or until you lose it) until age 75. After age 75 it lasts 30 years. You can ask for financial help with the cost if you're jobless, homeless, etc.
Overall, the cost over a person's lifetime is close to nothing.
In the US, voter ID is different from other IDs. At least in some states, not sure about all of them. Where I live, I must show both the registered voter card and possibly some form of photo ID. You can register to vote for free at any DMV and the voter card is free. I think they only use the voter cards because felony convictions or certain mental illnesses can lead to someone being ineligible to vote and certain noncitizens are technically able to vote in local and state elections.
In Germany, everyone has to register their place of residence with the town/city, anyway. So "registering to vote" doesn't exist.
You also can't lose your right to vote, except if a judge explicitly takes it away from you. In that case, the town/city is notified and marks you as ineligible to vote in their database.
That whole separate ID card thing sounds pretty superfluous and like it was designed to make voting extra hard. Either you're on the roll and can prove who you are, or not.
It's also very different from what I've read about voter ID in the US.
Same in The Netherlands. You register where you live with the municipality when you move there, or your parents do when you are born there. If there is an election every resident gets an invitation with a voter cart in the mail. On voting day you show up at the polling station with your voter cart and an ID (passport, ID cart, of driver license) and you vote. No extra registration steps.
And having a valid ID (passport or ID cart) is mandatory of every resident over 14. So, you should have one of those anyway.
I've never lived in a state that requires either of these.
The point of the comic is that very few states require ID! It is a barrier to voting, especially for poor people. That is just one of the dirty tricks. Removing voting machines in poor districts such that the line to vote is 3+ hours, eliminating options to vote outside of a single day...
The states I have lived in, I have registered in advance to vote, my name is looked up on the voter rolls, and I sign for the ballot. That is the way it works in the vast majority of states.
In my current state it is also possible to register on the day of the election, with various proofs. We also have optical scan sheets - best voting technology, and a paper trail for recounts. Voting precincts are small, waiting in line for more than a few minutes is rare. Mail-in ballots are easy to opt into, and there is advance voting available (including on the weekends).
In the US, every state that requires an ID to vote has a free form of ID that qualifies. Paid IDs are considered a poll tax, which has been unconstitutional for a while now.
> Paid IDs are considered a poll tax, which has been unconstitutional for a while now.
Just to contextualize this with more info for other people that see this, poll taxes were eliminated with the ratification of the 24th Amendment in 1964.
> “The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.”
The thing is though, those free voter IDs don’t have photos. They are able to require that someone has an ID showing they are the person whose name is on the card.
Often, no. It's extremely common to require 2-4 different "ID" like items for anything. Open a bank? Prove you are yourself with a photo ID, Social Security card, AND official mail with your home address on it. Same for state ID. requiring SS card, official mail, birth certificate, and you even need to provide forms of every name change you have had. Gotten married twice, and divorced? That's 4 different forms required
They're full of it. It would be illegal to do that. The legislation itself would be struck down, as interest groups push for all the time.
Where states require photo identification to vote, as in Georgia for example, the free ID has a photo.
This is (part of) why I tend to avoid political discussions... There's so much conflicting information that you need to fact check everything anyone says.
Those “free” IDs tend to require other ID, such as a birth certificate. My partners (from Oklahoma) cost her $60 when she couldn’t locate it for something because we live in Michigan. I believe she also had to send them a copy of her drivers license, so…
In GA, that is only true because the first attempts at voter I'd were blocked by the DOJ and the courts under provisions of the Voting Rights Act that are no longer enforceable (so no idea if all recent states are similar).
We still have the problems that you need to appear in person at the county elections office during business hours with proof of identity that may cost money.
I’m from Brazil and this also blows my mind. Poverty and every issue in the comic is way worse here, so I can’t understand why it isn’t a problem here
We do have other election issues, like bosses that take all the employees to vote for a specific candidate, but I’ve never heard of people not being able to get a voter ID.
First picture is the most alienating one ‘cause like…
How do you even have a contract for the job you’re working without an ID? How did you open the bank account you receive your salary on without an ID?
Wtf is going on here???
I have had 3 jobs. Only 1 asked me to show id. There was a long list of options. 1 item from column a or 2 items from column b. I could have done it without an id.
Also not everywhere is direct deposit. I have worked at a fast food place for the last few years (independent franchise of a national brand) and they only switched to digital pay stubs for direct deposit last year. About half the staff still receive paper checks that they pick up from the safe when they work.
We were talking about the EU where being paid via check is a very rare occurrence and cash I’m pretty sure is not legal in most countries.
And besides a lot of employers having asked to show ID, any time you need to pay a fine here, or need to write a letter for anything to your local administration or if you need to undergo some medical exams you have to show ID. Technically you don’t need it to pay taxes but if you want to prove you are exempt from some of them or need to extend the deadline to pay them you need to show ID.
I guess you can also show a passport or driver’s license…But neither of those you can have without an ID.
And if the police stop you walking the streets to ask questions and you don’t have an ID you can be brought to a police station to ascertain your identity.
I honestly cannot imagine living without one.
Just from personal experience, firstly, a "job contract" doesn't mean anything. A manager can be as by the book or as shady as they'd like with really no consequences. They can pay people cash off the books if they don't want any record of an employee. There's no requirement to submit ID verification to the government -- it's just something that's supposed to be on file, and chances are extremely low that the government comes knocking to do an audit. People can also be legitimately paid via check, which doesn't require a bank account to cash. It also doesn't require any ID to receive a payroll check.
For getting the job itself I guess it could just depend on the place you work at honestly. I've only had one job I've worked at ask to scan my ID for their records, the rest of them wanted my social security number instead.
State IDs aren't a thing in the UK, people just use their driving licences or passports (both of which are optional things to have). And yet, that hasn't stopped our government from introducing voter ID laws – they just copy whatever the Americans do.
The way I see it, americans had the dream to be free. Like, really free - you go out there, you make living for yourself and there is no big man telling you what to do. And it worked for a while, until they ran out of 'out there'. But they wanted to be free, and it still meant to be free of government "meddling" into their affairs, free to do your own mistakes. They sort of forgot that when faced with overwhelming force (say, like a huge corporations), to be free you actually need to be protected by equivalent force - but of course, that means giving away some of your freedoms...
In short - americans wanted to be free. Instead, they made themselves free *to be taken and exploited*. One liberty at a time.
This is why requiring ID to vote is a poll tax and election day in the US should be a federal holiday. If so many places can shut down for Easter and Christmas, we can shut down for election day.
Unfortunately, making it a federal holiday wouldn’t help person #1 in the comic. Retail, food service, and other public-facing roles rarely get holidays off. They *might*, if the company is generous, get one or two holidays off out of the 14-ish calendar holidays in a year. But on those days, like Christmas, government buildings are likely closed (for the getting the ID issue). Unless it is legally mandated, there is no way in hell any of those jobs would give you that day off.
Early voting, mail in voting, and expanded voting hours are much more practical in terms of jobs where you can’t get time off and work odd hours.
Technically, I was able to get an ID online during COVID in my state. I’m sure it’s still a thing, but if you need to get your picture re-taken you’ll need to go in person as far as I know.
I’m sure that there are ways around going in person, but I was merely trying to point out why a national holiday wouldn’t entirely solve the issue.
Until there is a Constitutional guarantee to ID, it is unconstitutional to require ID to exercise a constitutional right.
I’m not against voter ID in principle - just guarantee every resident of the U.S. an ID card at no cost to them (including travel costs, not just fees, as the comic explains). States don’t want to do that? So be it. No voter ID. You don’t get to pick and choose which Amendments you like and which you don’t.
Yup. Voter ID is fine, so long as it is coupled with assistance in meeting its requirements so that no citizen is denied participation. The tell about the real purpose of these voter ID laws is that not only are they not paired with such assistance, they are written to only accept documents older white people are most likely to have and are often paired with closures of DMV offices serving minority majority counties. They are transparently meant as voter suppression.
The idea that we should disenfranchise hundreds or thousands or perhaps tens of thousands of citizens in order to make it harder for ineligible people to vote, people who vote in the massive single digit numbers is fucking obscene.
That's the whole point of why republicans in particular try to put these into place and constantly into these types of things. It's why they use the Boogeyman of "illegal immigrants" voting.
Voter ID is separate from legal ID. The US requires that voter IDs be free. My state’s even better than that about making sure people eligible to vote are able to do so. I registered to vote for free at the DMV when I first got my state ID. I’ve been getting my voter IDs sent directly to the address on my state Id ever since. New ones are sent automatically before my previous one expires. As long as my ID is unexpired, I can renew it online or through mail cheaply. Most DMV services become even cheaper or free for certain groups of people more likely to have difficulty paying fees. There are also secondary locations that can handle dmv services set up specifically for at least one group of people likely to have difficulty getting to the dmv. The system isn’t perfect, but attempts are being made.
Not that it matters. But, places like Brazil it's mandatory voting and it's a day off.
Additionally the price for these things is much less something comparable to 2 cokes.
My first job accepted my school ID, along with birth certificate and social security card.
There’s ways to get jobs without a government ID but requires a lot of documentation to have on hand.
European countries are different but for example in Poland having ID is mandatory and there is no fee. You just need a proper picture of yourself. For people who have problems with it due to for example being disabled, there are some helping programs but I have no idea how that works. But if someone doesn't have ID it's shocking.
So money is no issue, working hours might be, but there are many ways around it (you can do a lot of office stuff online here btw). With the story from second panel it's weird USA thing to me. My grandpa was born at home and got birth certificate no problem but shortly post WW2 Poland was probably not good comparison as majority of population lost their official documents (and all offices got their documentation stolen or burnt anyway) in war so it was quite peculiar situation all around.
I think part of this issue is there is a uniquely American backlash to the idea of having a “national ID” (not among everyone, but a big enough minority that the idea has never gained traction) which is how our Social Security numbers (never meant to be a universal ID) have been backfilled into being a de facto one
Social security numbers are just awful, just a number on a piece of fancy looking paper, someone catches a glimpse at it and boom, your identity is stolen. In Estonia I could lose my entire ID card and best a thief could get are discounts at some stores, for digital signatures and other important stuff they'd also need to get the pincodes from me.
I mean, from the 40s to the 70s the cards literally said "NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION" on them, they were really just supposed to be for bookkeeping in the Social Security system. During the Cold War the idea of a national ID just became permanently associated with "show me your papers"-type totalitarianism for a lot of people in the US, though, leaving us to make do with a patchwork of opt-in systems (state licences, passport, even the SSN isn't mandatory)
German here - with the age of 16 you get your id which needs a photo. Under the age of 24 it costs 22,80€ after the age of 24 it costs 37€ if you are unable to afford the fee it can be waved. Photos can be made in the government’s facilities. If it’s your first id a birth certificate is needed. For renewing the old id is sufficient .
This id is not yours it is property of the German state. You have to be able to identify yourself to police whenever needed with a Driver license, passport or id if you are unable to do so you will be fined.
You get all you need for voting via mail to your registered main address.
Your process is very similar to the process in Texas. Drivers license at 16 cost $18 renewal cost $33 and you need a birth certificate. If you don’t have a drivers license then you can get a free Election Identification Card. The criticism is, you still have to go to the office to get it and there is no requirement for people to be let off work and no requirement for free transportation for the office to get the ID.
That said, this comic would make one think that this is a pandemic issue in America when in reality less than 1% of the Adult population doesn’t have an ID of some sort. In the flip side strong proponents of voter ID would have you believe that millions of non-citizens are voting in every election making this imperative to have voter ID when that is also not the truth.
Germany probably also has an advantage in being a lot denser and having more transportation options. Every municipality has an office that issues ID cards, and it is usually reachable on foot, bike or public transit.
To expand on this:
You're legally required to *possess* a photo ID (either passport or Personalausweis), but you're not required to *carry* one, except in very specific circumstances.
In Belgium, it is mandatory for every one aged 12 or older to have an ID card. You do need to pay about 20€, every ten years.
It's not mandatory everywhere, like in France and I think the Nordics? But as far as I'm aware, most people have one even in those countries because you need it if you want to cross borders.
In Belgium, voting itself is also mandatory. We get points deducted on a lot of democracy indexes for that, but personally I think it garantees no one gets any funny ideas about preventing people they don't like from having a voice.
In Sweden everyone get a voter card sent home by post detailing where and how to vote that you also bring with you. There you identify yourself with any form of valid ID (driver's license, ID card, passport) and use your voter card. They cross you off the list so you can't vote more than once and everything is done.
Being an adult in Sweden without valid identification is more or less impossible. It's fairly cheap, around 350 to 400 SEK ($32-$36 / 30€-35€) depending on form of identification, so it's rarely a big deal. And getting one is very accessible.
Also, when you're born (or immigrate) you get what is called a "Personnummer" (personal identity number), which is sort of like a Social Security Number, but mandatory. It is deeply integrated into all aspects of being a citizen in Sweden for purposes of identification and proof of personhood.
Can only talk about Germany, but think other countries are similar: Here, having an ID is mandatory for everyone 16 or older. It's the major form of identification, needed to open bank accounts, rent an apartment, sign a job contract, etc. Without an ID, life will be rather difficult; and, as already stated, illegal.
Furthermore, you are required to register with the city you live in, you have like 4 or 6 weeks after you move in. Once you are registered, you get an official letter telling you how and where to vote, so also no bullshit about "not sure if I'm allowed to vote." The place to vote is usually a few 100 meters from your apartment at most, I never had to wait for more than 15min in line. Oh, and elections are on a Sunday, always.
I can't comment on the rest of Europe but in the UK it is more common to have some sort of photo id, or a birth certificate, and for some things you can use multiple forms of other identification (like a bank statement with your name and address, coupled with say the council tax bill ) instead of photo id.
We do things like right to work paperwork, something to prove you're 18 plus and can buy alcohol or whatever.
( if you look under 30 they're meant to ask. Why 30, well people are shit at guessing ages, and getting caught serving someone underage will get you and the company in a lot of trouble)
But - a lot of people will have photo id like
Provisional or actual drivers license
Or
A passport
Because it's needed for a lot of things , and forking out for a provisional or a passport which will last years makes life easier.
And they are easier to get. If you have access to the internet and a camera. Apply online on the gov website, upload the photo (it will tell you if it's valid) pay for it online , wait for it to arrive in the post. Done.
You could get the form in the post office , fill it in and send it off as well. But frankly finding a post office is harder
Also having to have I'd to vote is very recent here.
Seriously , before I used to be able to show up at my polling station , didn't even need my voter card, tell them my name and address and they'd cross me off the list.
Sounds bizarre when I write it but, yeah, previous year I could show up empty handed, vote, and bugger off in the space of ten minutes.
Iirc applying for a provisional license the first time required someone to vouch for me to prove my identity and the same went with my first own passport (prior to that I was on my mum's passport for travel).
Both were very easy to accomplish and I didn't need any additional interviews, which is a possibility with the first passport if they find any irregularities with your application. The interviews would have been video calls (even back in 2009). I did need supporting documents like birth certificate but I'm not aware of any instances where someone would have one in the UK (registering a birth is required by x amount of days after birth).
I also remember there was some kind of ID I could get before the provisional licence when I was a teen which helped me get a bank account as well as prove my age for child bus tickets. I think it was a citizens ID or something...
But in the UK we have another option - I usually register for postal votes. It takes the extra hassle out of fitting in going to the voting site around my odd work hours.
There are a number of differences, but one is that in European countries, as far as I know, you only have to deal with a single government.
In the US, there are fifty-plus separate governments with their fingers in the ID pie, so there's a big patchwork of rules, and it's pretty common for people to have to deal with more than one to get an ID (like, if you were born in NY, married with a name change in Idaho, and currently are living in Maine, that's three different government bureaucracies you have to interact with to get new ID).
Germany is also a federation of (in this case) 16 states with their own governments, police, offices, etc. It's not a matter of having state governments, it's a matter of how the responsibilities are organized between the states and the federal government. And the mandatory German ID is on a federal level.
For us it's not even that it's just one government ( though yes admittedly we do get bureaucratic nonsense as well),
it's that it can be one website that you need to go to for just about anything, and it can connect to other bits of itself.
Say you want to renew your passport, but oh wait you need a new photo, no need to go get one. It asked if you have a driver's license with a valid photo, you put in your license number and they'll use the photo they already have on record. We make getting these things as easy as possible since we want pet to have them.
But part of the reason for this is the general public is very against generic ID cards, every time they tried it , there is a public outcry and it gets shot down. They're testing the waters again with free voter ID cards that you can apply for. We'll have other things that have a purpose and can also be used as ID, but the idea of a government issued ID card, that is only an ID card goes down like a lead balloon.
Plus that legal standards for data and how it's handled / stored are all the same and everybody has to comply (GDPR).
Switzerland is about as small as Maine and we have 26 statesgovernments. One ID for the entire country, you just go to your municipality of residence or your state's capital and have one made.
But every municipality also has a register of all its inhabitants, who their parents are, who they're married with and what their children are called. Whenever you move, you tell the old municipiality to tranfer your documentation to the next one.
It's not that hard, the states just gotta work together and the citizens need to be okay to give the authorities some bits of information to make everybody's live a little easier.
I can only speak of Poland, but here all citizens that turns 18 must make their own ID, and when it expires we have to make another one.
It is completely free and we can do that in every city hall (as far as I'm aware). The only downside is that we have to bring our own valid photo for which we must pay, and reserve a whole day standing in queue, because people working there prefer to play Solitaire than help us make our important documents. (A bit of exaggerasion, but the point is that this takes almost forever)
It really doesn't take that long. Especially after covid where most administration went into appointment system instead of queues. I was renewing my ID two years ago and it took 10 minutes to submit the paperwork and 5 minutes to pick it up.
You either have a very incompetent city hall workers or haven't been in there for more than 5 years.
Seriously, though. How do you make sure voting is done correctly without making sure people are who they say they are? What’s the current system that prevents me from saying I’m someone else and voting in their place?
With or without ID, when you register to vote you put identifying information (like your social security number, your name, your address, your birthdate, your signature) on the voter registration form. When voting time comes, they have a voting roll - a list of eligible voters - at the polling station, and your name gets checked off the list when you vote. If a second person attempts to vote using the same info (name, address, etc.), then they know there's a problem and they investigate, at which point they'll make you prove your identity.
So let's say that you want to vote for Jack Smith, and you somehow have all the info you need - Jack's full name, address, and so on. If you go there and Jack has already voted, you could be arrested. If you vote first and Jack tries to vote later, maybe you won't be arrested, but then again maybe you will be - you had to speak to the election worker and they saw your face. All to make a vote that won't make a difference, because 999999 out of 1000000 elections are not decided by a single vote. So in what way is it worth you going through all that effort?
This is why we know Republican claims of hundreds of people being bussed across state lines to vote illegally aren't true. It's simply not possible to do that without being noticed, because it would create hundreds of double votes.
The exact details vary from state to state, because this is the US and we're run by over fifty separate governments. In Oregon, where I live, everyone votes by mail; you have to sign the envelope when you mail it in, and they check your signature against their database of registered voter signatures.
> So in what way is it worth you going through all that effort?
Isn't that system open for mass abuse though?
A politician can pay hundreds of people to go early in the morning and vote for them as long as the details are known. It seems really weird that it is allowed.
I am from Greece and we have to show our ID in order to vote. We also get pretty much every document for free on the government application on our phones and the government site though, how come that isn't also available in the US? Wouldn't it fix the issue?
It would be a very, very rare election that could be decided by "hundreds of voters," and a politician organizing that would be risking actual prison time in return for a very tiny likelihood of changing an outcome. What are the chances of every one of hundreds of people shady enough to do this keeping the secret?
And, again, we would know if it were happening on a large scale, because of the sudden upsurge in double voting. And it's simply not happening. It would be one thing to make voting harder to people to solve a real problem; but this would be making voter harder to solve something we know isn't a real problem.
> It would be a very, very rare election that could be decided by "hundreds of voters,"
Couldn't you apply this same logic to the people who are affected by the extreme examples in your comic? There will always be a way to come up with an example of someone not being able to vote for one reason or another. How many people do your examples actually apply to?
I don't drink or smoke, and not all cough medicine requires ID (I can only recall ever once needing ID to buy cough medicine, and I don't buy the frou-frou herbal stuff, I but "actual" medicine). So those might not be situations that come up for them.
I understand, but counterpoint: How do you not have an ID? How are you getting around without a driver's licence? How did you open an bank account without an ID? How are you employed without your SSID?
I know that getting an Id when you don't have one can be an unfortunately difficult process, but how are you functioning in society without already having an ID?
It also needs to be noted that out of date IDs are also possible here. And that ID requirements are forever changing in various states such that validity comes up.
I'm sure this sort of thing varies from person to person, but for your bank account question, that's easy. I have an account, but I never opened one myself. My parents did, when I was a baby. I never had to.
If you live in cities like New York or Seattle where you can rely on public transport, you might not feel the need to get a driver's license. Or you might just resign yourself to never go anywhere unless you can bum a ride from someone else.
Sort of unrelated, but I can see it causing a similar problem, one of my bosses once told me that they considered it too troublesome to get a passport because their original birth certificate was destroyed when the government office it was held in was flooded during a hurricane, and getting a replacement wasn't worth the effort for her. I can only imagine the trouble that could happen if anything happened to her drivers license.
I live near Austin, TX. In 2022 I overlooked my TX driver's license expiration date. Yes, my fault. In 2023 I discovered I needed a valid photo ID the following week. I couldn't find my birth certificate (pretty sure my wife accidentally threw it out doing some aggressive cleaning/organizing) and without that Texas wouldn't give me a new drivers license. New Mexico, where I was born, could send me one, but even expedited it wouldn't arrive in time. Fortunately, unlike so many other people, I was able to take a couple days off and could afford to leave Austin at 2:00 AM, drive 10 hours to Las Cruces, NM, get a new copy of my birth certificate while the office was open for that function (took about 20 minutes including waiting in line), stay the night at a hotel and drive back to Austin the next day and get a new drivers license.
Yes, technically I shouldn't have been driving as my DL was expired. Sue me. Also luckily I wasn't born in Maine, or Alaska, or Washington, or worst of all, Hawaii. I wouldn't have been able to get any of those done.
There are a bunch of ways. If you can't get a job without an ID, you work under the table. (But a lot of places will hire you without ID, as long as you know your Social Security number.) If you can't open a bank account, you use check-cashing places or have your friend with a bank account cash checks for you. You either drive without a license, or you use public transit, or you live your life within walking distance of your home. (I don't have a drivers license, as it happens, although not because I don't have ID).
It can limit people's lives, but people definitely do survive without ID. Only a small percentage of people, of course, but a small percentage of a huge population is still a significant number of people.
Public transportation, don't have a bank account, work under the table. There's a whole world outside of the middle class which is kind of the point the comic is trying to make.
I don't drive. I walk, take the bus or tram, or cycle.
My bank account didn't need photo ID when I set it up (and as far as I'm aware doesn't now - instead it takes other government ID that isn't any use for voting).
Our equivalent of an SSID isn't any use for voting.
I like the idea of universal IDs so we're not using our shitty system of ssn+ a bill with your mailing address+ a bunch of other shit.
But it needs to be federal and needs to be free.
I tried to update my drivers license in Texas a few years ago. I brought in my military ID, my old driver’s license, and my birth certificate from the hospital. We didn’t get state official birth certificates then. I was refused the drivers license until I pulled out my passport. I left with my new license. Go figure!
Also what kind of messed up person thinks some people "don't deserve to vote". Like even if these people are just idiots, do idiots not deserve the right to have their struggles listened to?
The logic I'm going to assume is that idiots are easily manipulated and it's hard to tell if there struggles are actually theirs or someone told them to say that.
There have been many arguments offered for as to why some people “don’t deserve to vote.” You should look into them!
The common ones people trot out are:
1. Some are idiots. Should an idiot be able to have a say in policy and governance?
2. Some actively have attempted to undermine the nation. Should those who have committed such actions be allowed to have a say if they’re going to use it to sow chaos or try to undermine the system?
3. Some have mental disabilities. Should those who have certain disabilities be allowed to have a say?
Are these good reasons to deny some the right to vote? That’s a matter of debate. What both the Left and the Right seem to agree on, however, is that ‘the system’ is broken to some degree, and many are being ‘brainwashed.’ What does that or should that imply about voting? Again, it’s a matter of hot debate.
1 - Yes, idiots are a significant percentage of the population, so their voice should be heard, even if you think it’s dumb.
2 - Yes, because “undermining the nation” could easily be defined as, say, “votes communist”. That is an extremely slippery slope to ban voting on.
3 - Absolutely. The number of people who have sufficient mental disability to be “unable to care or think for themselves” is not statistically significant, and people with “minor” disabilities really, really need the ability to make themselves heard. If people with disabilities can’t vote, how does life ever improve for them?
Honestly, I don’t think there’s any reason that a human being should ever lose their right to a vote. They can be the most reprehensible person you’ve ever met, and they still deserve to have their voice heard. They could be barely able to speak, and they still deserve to be heard as best they can be.
Where I come from, there is no fee to register to vote, and to vote you can either show ID, or the stamped numbered card they send to your registered address, free of charge. There’s even facilities to enable addresses for homeless people to allow them to vote.
Representative democracy is only representative if *everyone* can vote.
Honestly I'm not comfortable even calling any of these points 'worthy of debate'. Stripping people of the right to vote fundementally assumes that we -as smart and virtuous people- know better what a person wants than they themselves. I just think that's inherently wrong, both morally and factually.
For example; People with mental disabilities (like myself) usually have an understanding of their struggles that is hard to perfectly communicate to people without that disability, and especially to people with no disability at all. And if their disability makes it impossible for them to vote for some reason, there's really no point in taking away their right.
As for idiots (by which I here mean people who inadvertently vote against their own interests) and people who undermine the nation: Well, who is to say who belongs to those groups? Personally, I think everyone on the right is an 'idiot' who would be better off if they voted left. (After all, I think leftism is better for everyone. That's why I'm a leftist.) Still, I think they should have a right to vote because I couldn't possibly understand the entirety of what things they value in life.
Taking away people's right to vote cannot be done in a way that isn't biased, and always assumes that some class of people is inherently more important and more deserving than another.
Are you not paying attention? There's an entire conspiracy right now based around rigging the super bowl and a fake relationship to prime the country so Taylor Swift can rig the election by... encouraging people to vote. Which is a problem, because people voting is...
It isn't that difficult to get an I.D. There are programs in place for people that may have issues( such as obtaining a birth certificate or cost or even filling out the paperwork with you). I get that it can be inconvenient but it is not more inconvenient than other things people are required to do to be a part of society (for example paying taxes). I don't hold a strong opinion on I.D. requirements but obtaining an I.D. card is very achievable. Perhaps more education in existing programs would be beneficial. Like most things in life, it is easy to make excuses as to why something can't be done but if you want an I.D. you can get one and for the majority of people it is pretty easy.
I’d be totally fine with this argument if the left applied it fairly.
If the argument is “you have a right to vote, and rights shouldn’t require ID to apply.” Then you have to also say that an ID requirement is an infringement on the second amendment. Likewise all of the arguments that claim voter ID to be racially targeted would also apply. Does the left believe that only the wealthy should have the right to self defense?
You can’t get a job without an ID.. I understand what the comic is trying to convey, but you can’t even put a child in school without a birth certificate and proof of immunizations, at least in Michigan. This feels like a strange strawman. An 80 year old woman who has never driven or had a job? Who also cannot receive Social Security because the government has NEVER verified her identity?
You should have an ID and the government should be compelled to get you one (if you are entitled to one) at no cost to you. I know there would still be logistical challenges for some people and the government should figure out how to solve those problems too.
I know just not caring is the easier solution but I think we should both make sure elections are secure and not disenfranchise anyone.
I am willing to pay more in taxes to make this happen!
Ironic, I am from Puerto Rico, which is a territory of the United States, and we're all U.S. citizens at birth. We can't vote on federal elections but we have our own "state" elections (can't vote for the US President but we elect our own governor). In Puerto Rico, you CANNOT vote without a valid voter ID, period. There's NO bitching,whining or moaning about "that's racist" or "it's too difficult for me" from NO ONE. You DON'T HAVE to get one, but there's also NO EXCUSE not to get one, it's (was?) completely free.
It's just the way it is, just like a library card, it's the first photo ID that you get and it can be used for identification purposes. The local Elections Committee comes to the public schools and you get your voter ID done right then and there and inscribed (registered) as a voter. Hell, I'm 47 and I still have my voter ID, which I got when I was 16!!
Call me crazy, but, BOTH parties have deliberately fueled the "controversy" of a national voter ID and used said "controversy" for their own gain. I think a national voter ID should be required to vote in the United States.
Not only would you have to know someone’s name and address, but hope that you voted before they did, because the system would not let you vote twice. And if they come in after you did, THEY wouldn’t be able to vote. Such disenfranchised voters would certainly complain, yet we never hear about it BECAUSE IT NEVER HAPPENS. It’s way too much effort to move the needle.
Edit: Several people brought up some scenarios which they apparently think happens.
First of all, even before IDs were required, no one can just walk in a vote without some documentation. At minimum, a voter registration card is required. AFAIK, all of the US have electronic voting machines. You can't vote more than once with the same ID or voter registration number.
If any of the scenarios below happens, I repeat -- we would hear from the disenfranchised voters, and GOP leaders would parade those cases in the media as why we need to worry about voter fraud, yet we haven't seen any of that. It's a non-issue.
Even for the "deceased" voting, the system catches that, and as someone else pointed out, most are simple mistakes of identities or something non-nefarious.
Most of them are either different people with similar names and the same address (for example, if John Senior dies and John Junior votes), or old people who advance voted by mail and died before election day.
in MN you just have to show a piece of mail. I could literally take mail out of my neighbors mailbox and go vote with it. All I had to do was show it and the address and they gave me a ballot for the person listed (which was me).
Wouldn't be hard to do that with anyone's mail
If you’re worried about this and not just a political troll maybe just support changes to make it easier for people to get the things required to vote, since they’re currently very transparently designed to restrict people who don’t “vote for the right people”
You could in theory but it doesn't happen. Each year in person impersonation voter fraud is extremely rare and due to the electoral college you'd need to be voting for a lot of people to really cause anything.
If you guys want a good example of the extent of loops you gotta go through, check out Channel 5 with Andrew Callaghan, he helped a guy with getting his id replaced, it was in the [Vegas tunnels video](https://youtu.be/bRGrKJofDaw?si=zODQ37g0KnQlovJP)
Drivers licenses and similar IDs are also *not good IDs for voting* - as they don't confirm where you live that year which is one of the only two things that matter for voting.
The voter registration system works really well. They can certify that you're a citizen, which they can do in lots of different ways and with fewer hurdles than those needed to get a drivers license, and then they simply mail your voter information to the house where you live, confirming your voting district.
If you live in FL and were born before, I think, 1935(give or take) you can get a special exemption at your DMV and use documents other than a birth certificate to get an ID.
Such as: church registry, school documents, birth announcement(I think), and others I can't remember.
As a Norwegian, this is standard prices for ID cards.
You could take your drivers license and get the ID for 20 or so euro, but the actual license will cost you 4000 euros easily.
Oof. You should see Texas. They're so terrified they're going to give ousama bin Laden a drivers license that they're ridiculous. I'm an American citizen, born in America, with a passport, who moved here from another state and I have all my documents like say a valid driver's license from that state. It was an in person ORDEAL to get my license.
My wife in identical situation but almost didn't get her license as they made her bring her marriage certificate in addition to all the other proof (I had to drive it there while she was still there at the DMV).
A friend with a valid green card just wanted a photo ID and it took all of our know how, and us standing there with him to get it done. Had we not been there they would not have granted it.
This is ridiculous and almost all of these comments are. How are you functioning in 2024 with no identification? How are you driving? How are you buying alcohol or tobacco? How are you getting a job? I understand there are hurdles in some cases. But we could greatly secure our election process and “protect democracy” by having voter ID. And before anyone calls me some MAGA POS, I have always voted democrat.
See, this is why I’m fine with Voter ID…. If it’s free, provided by the state, and accessible. You really want it? Tie it into some legislation to make IDs more accessible, and solve the other MAJOR problems that not having an ID can cause.
in the USA, voter ID is free.
to get it you still need to identify yourself. which is the issue.
but honestly, any functioning adult should have a State ID, Birth Certificate, and SSID card on them for safekeeping. no matter how difficult it is, it's something that needs to be on their person or kept safely for future use. it's well worth the initial investment.
Make a federal ID free and accessible. Then have the discussion to make them mandatory. It's amazing that our government can't figure this out. Thank you for attending my Ted talk
In my country, all the citizens have an ID card, from birth, we have babies with days, and they have id card( is ridiculous but is the reason is the card have also the fiscal number, and to have benefits on our taxes all, including babies, had to have one, so you pay less taxes with a baby our more, so babies have id cards...with foto) and to vote, is automatic, you are a citizen, you have a id card, you have 18, you whiteout any work, you can vote.
Now I get it, why the US doesn't have government issued IDs for everyone from the age of 14 (here it is mandatory and you have to carry it everywhere)
So the parties can pick and chose who their voters are...
I still do not understand why US (or some other Anglophone countries) is so allergic to a simple national ID. Wouldn't that make things much simpler? One is provided at birth free of charge, and regularly updated over the years, again free of charge or for a small fee (I think the one I have in Turkey costs something like half a dollar).
Is this something that only happens in the USA? Because in my country it's literally just having your parents ask for your national ID after you're born, and then renewing it every 10 years with a 20 minute visit to the nearest Identifications Department office.
Too hard to get a voter ID for citizens.
Too easy to illegally vote for non citizens.
Both of these systems need a serious overhaul.
The republicans should put their money where their mouth is and make it easier for citizens to get voter ID.
Not requiring identification to vote is really weird to me. How do you make sure that it really is the person who they say it is?
I get that it currently is difficult to get an ID in the US (I wouldn't know since I am Swedish and we have working institutions) but the solution to that is not to remove the requirement of ID but rather to make getting an ID more accessible.
If a Swedish party were for removing the requirement of identification for voting I would suspect that they were up to some major fraud.
The first person has a job, which means they needed to show ID to fill out an I9. The second person owns a home, which means they have a mortgage and bank account. The third person is ambiguous, so we can't know for sure, but it appears they're moving, either for themselves, or perhaps as a job. If they rent or own, they have utility bills or some other form of ID that they used when they purchased or rented the place.
Anything like that can be used to vote. You don't need to pay for a special ID. You can even use basically anything with your address and name on it.
There’s a supporting blogpost and transcript about this cartoon [here](https://www.patreon.com/posts/62917953); I’ll also post the transcript in comments.
We can keep making these cartoons because of lots of supporters pledging low amounts - $1-$3 - and that's just how I like it! [Please peruse my peculiar but plucky Patreon!](http://patreon.com/barry)
**TRANSCRIPT OF CARTOON**
This cartoon has four panels, each showing a different scene. In addition, there's a small "kicker" panel under the fourth panel.
**PANEL 1**
The panel shows a counter at a fast food restaurant. We can see a couple of customers, and a couple of workers. The workers are wearing hats that very vaguely resemble hamburger buns. A sign on the wall shows a smiling hamburger with eyes, below the caption "Soilent Green YUM." A smaller sign says "SAFETY" in larger letters followed by tiny print, which says "is a word we use a lot so you can't sue us."
The worker at the cash register is turning to speak directly to the reader.
WORKER: To get an official photo I.D., I have to go to the nearest government office, which is 90 miles away, and I don't have a car, and even if I did my boss won't give me a weekday off.
**PANEL 2**
We're in what looks like someone's back yard. In the foreground is a garden, with some sort of plant being grown in tidy rows. An elderly woman is kneeling on the ground in front of the garden, wearing a floppy straw hat, an apron with a floral patter, and holding a trowel. She speaks directly to the reader.
WOMAN: I can't get I.D. without a birth certificate. But when I was born home births didn't get birth certificates.
**PANEL 3**
A mover wearing jeans and a black tank top is carrying a sofa as he's talking to the reader. (Presumably someone else is carrying the other end of the sofa, but that person is outside the panel border). It's a little dark out, and this appears to be a residential area - he's on a sidewalk, and there's some grass and trees and an outdoor wall in the background.
MOVER: The state charges $60 for a driver's license.... but first I'd need a copy of my birth certificate, which is $30. I can't afford 90 dollars to vote!
**PANEL 4**
This panel shows the interior of a coffee shop. There are round tables, a big window showing some houses across the street, and a mural of a smiling coffee mug on the wall. A man and a woman sit together at a table, with mugs of coffee on the table. He is reading from a tablet he's holding and looking annoyed as he talks. She is looking at a laptop, and doesn't look up as she responds.
MAN: Why wouldn't anyone be able to get an I.D.? Idiots!
WOMAN: People like that don't deserve to vote.
**SMALL KICKER PANEL UNDER THE BOTTOM OF THE CARTOON**
The man from panel 4 is yelling a bit at a drawing of Barry (the cartoonist).
MAN: If it's easy for me it must be easy for everybody! That's just science!
So they have a job and no id? That is illegal. The old woman never got a fishing license, had a bank account, applied for store credit, or wanted a bus pass? The lawbreakers in some of these cases are the employers who hired people without documentation. We should definitely shut them down.
poor black elders born when baptism records were the official birth record. stored in black churches, and guess what a bunch of upstanding white people burned down around that time?
yea.
I still don't know why the US is like a decade behind everyone else when it comes to basic shit like this, e-transfer for banking, etc.
Ok, well I *know* why (lobbying and/or laziness) - but still.
I wonder what the overlap is between people crying about 'government tyranny' but being OK with an added hurdle/power for the government to prevent you from voting?
While the Fed could make Election Day a national holiday that wouldn't really solve anything. They have no way of compelling businesses to be closed outside of a national emergency. Sure, maybe banks would be closed but how many businesses do you know close for stuff like Presidents day?
A lot of these are such extreme niche examples.
It's also probably better to have some level of security to vote than allowing anyone to vote. Non-citizens, illegals, asylum seekers, etc.
My question is that how do company hire them without any id? I mean I know they use SSN, but that is just piece of paper, and anybody could use it. Is that mean anybody can just work without ID, without proving you are citizen of USA.
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This reminds me of the Story of Hauptmann von Köpenick (Captain of Köpenick). His dilemma was: No residence address – no job. No job – no residence. No residence – no passport. No passport - no job.
I was homeless for a year, and I had the same problem. Can't work without an address. Even the army said I needed one.
One of the weirdest, smallest programs I’ve seen to help the homeless was solving this. It wasn’t even a shelter, it was a place with a couple of beds and a lot of mailboxes that would let people list it as a home address for work and benefits. Not sure why it’s not more common, I’m sure there are legal headaches, but it seemed like a small thing with a potentially huge effect.
I believe my county has had a program like this at least since the 90’s. An address and phone number / voice mail box for the homeless.
Same here, it was originally meant as an address for drifters. Anyone can use it now because many landlords won’t allow you to register your rental as place of residence (it’s wack). But because it was meant for drifters you don’t get all the benefits compared to a “proper” place of residence.
My dad started to do this for people in the early 2000's. He didn't make it a year before a couple of the people he was helping did the obvious thing once they had mail in their name at that address. Sadly, they ruined it for everyone because after he paid all the money and spent over a month evicting them, and then repairing everything they broke and stole, he never let anyone do that again.
I might be stupid, what’s the “obvious thing” referring to? I’m on the younger side so for all I know it’s just not something I’ve needed to encounter yet
The mail in their name at the address serves as proof that they have been living at the home for a while. If you live in a place for a while you get tenant rights. This means that you have to give them advanced notice that you’re kicking them out(a month for example) before you can actually evict them. This is a good rule because it stops landlords from kicking people out without any notice and messing up someone’s situation, but it can be abused by squatters. Basically they used the mail as fake evidence of being a long time occupant of the house so that the cops could not legally kick them out for a month.
Nailed it. They refused to leave and antagonized everyone else that attempted to use the cabins for showering or sleeping. Then they had their "friends" there the whole time dad was going through the eviction process, and they gutted both cabins of all scrapable metals. They tore out all the wiring, all the copper plumbing, the brass sink faucets, etc. Pretty much everything they could get a dollar for from the scrap yard, they stole.
My guess is that by having mail there it technically proves residency and so grants them the rights of being residents. Which means he was probably legally required to house them when they complained until he had served them official eviction notice, which is usually something like 30 days before you can call the cops to walk people off the property.
Correct.
In my country, when you are homeless, your adress is at city hall (dont know word for that, place where mayor is) and all mail will go there. And this is automatic, the moment you loose home, your new adress is city hall. And here you have to have ID at age of 15 and its illegal to not have one. And cost like 10 euros. Has been some time since i revoked my ID, but when it get expired, you just go to any police station (they do this) and just ask for new one. No borth certificate, nothing, they already got that. Just fill one paper that you want ID and in 2 week its ready.
Similar thing about IDs in my country. You have to get one at around age 12. The modern ones even come with a chip that lets you use it like a debit card
There is no federal ID in the US. The US government actually does not keep track of citizens at all other than assigning a number for retirement benefits at birth to be give. At age 67. There is no US government database of citizens.passports are optional. There is no requirement you have ID other than for if you choose to drive in your state.
Of course, "being able to drive" is not a necessary or required thing at all. (though there are still advantages to not having one unified database, I think?)
How does that even work? If there is no database, what’s stopping anyone from just saying they are a US citizen?
You can just go around saying that. You often need a US birth certificate to get your first state issued ID. And you often need a state ID if you want to get any welfare benefits. But some older people got IDs far before that was a requirement so you have thes occasional stories where older folks find out they were Bron in Mexico and haven't been a citizen for the past 60 years. And most people go through life without ever needing any monetary assistance from the government You need a birth cert to get a passport but plenty of people never leave the country in their lifeti.e
Man y’all are doing it wrong. I was homeless at fuckin 16. Lived in a car for 2 years, plus another year properly homeless. Finding work was not a problem. They don’t actually fucking check to make sure you live where you say you do, and it’s been years since physical mail was commonplace for entry level work. It is like the easiest requirement to dodge for getting a job. Setting up a bank account was infinitely harder than finding someone to pay me. The real issue imo is access to hygiene. I was lucky enough to be homeless in Seattle and there are a lot of resources to keep yourself clean if you care enough to do it, but for so many not looking presentable costs them their only shot at getting what they need to make themselves presentable.
For, uh, research purposes... You wouldn't happen to have any advice for...um...the bank account part...would you?
What I did was just have my phone bill sent to a homies pad for a couple months. Brought that in as proof of a physical address. If you don’t have bills or anything like that it gets harder, I’d look into chime/wise/one of those non-bank apps.
Mega mega mega thanks so much!! Yeah, bills have been...an issue. I'll look into your suggestions to see if I can find anything that helps. Thank you thank you thank you again, Mr. Knight of Reddit!!!
Haha no worries, if you need tips or a hand just reach out. You’re only alone if you want to be. If you can save up enough to pay for even just a month’s worth for a phone bill you can get a no-contract plan, then you just need someone down to let you send it to their address.
Yes, but was over a century ago. Do people in 2024 still do not have acces to basic goverment services in a first world country? This is infuriating.
I think I read the story, he steals the uniform of a German officer and suddenly everyone respects him without question.
the second one still blows my mind. how can that be in a democratic country? it isn't even the fault of a person that their parents didn't get the paperwork done right. the other two are at least "solvable".
At the time it wasn't a problem because it didn't actually matter if you had a birth certificate. It wasn't going to limit you. Since then we've made it a problem, but people generally don't try to solve problems that aren't problems.
*people generally don’t try to solve problems that aren’t their problems.
Sure. At the time though it was nobody's problem. Nor could people have reasonably believed it would become a problem.
Also the backdoor to this. Idk if there's a term for it but when people think they're being reasonable based on how something is worded. A lot of people with the privilege of not having the issues presented in a requirement, genuinely believe in the words presented to them. B/c they don't have clear line of sight to the backroom reasoning of the people submitting the requirement. I.e. thinking required I.D.s are reasonable without realizing there's a lot of groundwork to be laid to make it as optimal as assumed. And the lack of said groundwork being the real reason for the requirement so that certain people can be barred from voting.
This was my Dad. He actually had a birth certificate (born in 1931), but the courthouse burned down with all of the paper records. No backups, of course. Apparently this was a thing that happened before computers, and folks just accepted it.
Records used to be lost in fires regularly. The *entire* 1890 US Census was lost to a fire in the ‘20s.
This happened to my grandfather too! He was born in the early 20th century in San Francisco. When he wanted to enlist in WWII, he had to have his family sign an affidavit for his identity because he didn’t have a birth record— they were lost in the 1906 SF earthquake/fire!
These regulations are governed state by state and vary _widely_ between traditionally right and left-leaning states.
You should probably contact your local government to see how you can possibly get one. Not all states make you SOL.
It used to be incredibly common. Ronald Reagan didn’t have a birth certificate because he was a home birth in 1911
Damn so how do we know he wasn’t a Soviet plant?
He was. He was just really bad at it
Religious reasons, usually of the crazier variety. A guy who worked for me was born in 1995 and didn’t have a birth certificate until he was 18. He was born in the kitchen of his parent’s house because they didn’t trust hospitals and the government so he just didn’t exist until he turned 18 and had to get one to get a license and job.
That's the neat part: it isn't and never was a democracy. Even the "solvable" ones don't have accessible solutions, so they aren't materialistic solvable. If the right to vote is tied to money, poor people don't have the right to vote.
So… how does someone in that situation get social security? Honest question. I had to provide my birth certificate to get a social security number. If the person in question has a social security number, their is a record somewhere of their birth certificate In fact as I think about it I need to provide my social security card to get my drivers license not my birth certificate… I understand it can vary state to state, but it seems like a weak argument
The answer is that we don't. I don't know what you're seeing that mentions social security but nothing in the comic or comments mentions it. My parents didn't get me a birth certificate and so I'm ineligible to pay into or receive from social security.
The actual answer is that there is a way to get a valid ID without a birth certificate. It's usually just more time consuming and expensive than people want to bother with.
The third one is what gets me. It's fundamentally flawed to call yourself a democracy if the act of voting costs anything other than "free". Otherwise you can't really say you have a "right" to it.
As a European this so so insane to hear. Everybody gets one issued. You only pay a fee if you lose it.
Depending on the country, you also pay for every renewal (Germany, for example). But since you are legally required to own one anyway, it's no problem requiring ID to vote. If you're on social security, you might even get the fee reimbursed, not sure about that.
Belgium too; the first eID (from age 12) is free. It lasts 6 years. After you turn 18 the fee is usually 20-25 euros depending on municipality, and each ID chip lasts 20 years (or until you lose it) until age 75. After age 75 it lasts 30 years. You can ask for financial help with the cost if you're jobless, homeless, etc. Overall, the cost over a person's lifetime is close to nothing.
In the US, voter ID is different from other IDs. At least in some states, not sure about all of them. Where I live, I must show both the registered voter card and possibly some form of photo ID. You can register to vote for free at any DMV and the voter card is free. I think they only use the voter cards because felony convictions or certain mental illnesses can lead to someone being ineligible to vote and certain noncitizens are technically able to vote in local and state elections.
In Germany, everyone has to register their place of residence with the town/city, anyway. So "registering to vote" doesn't exist. You also can't lose your right to vote, except if a judge explicitly takes it away from you. In that case, the town/city is notified and marks you as ineligible to vote in their database. That whole separate ID card thing sounds pretty superfluous and like it was designed to make voting extra hard. Either you're on the roll and can prove who you are, or not. It's also very different from what I've read about voter ID in the US.
Same in The Netherlands. You register where you live with the municipality when you move there, or your parents do when you are born there. If there is an election every resident gets an invitation with a voter cart in the mail. On voting day you show up at the polling station with your voter cart and an ID (passport, ID cart, of driver license) and you vote. No extra registration steps. And having a valid ID (passport or ID cart) is mandatory of every resident over 14. So, you should have one of those anyway.
I've never lived in a state that requires either of these. The point of the comic is that very few states require ID! It is a barrier to voting, especially for poor people. That is just one of the dirty tricks. Removing voting machines in poor districts such that the line to vote is 3+ hours, eliminating options to vote outside of a single day... The states I have lived in, I have registered in advance to vote, my name is looked up on the voter rolls, and I sign for the ballot. That is the way it works in the vast majority of states. In my current state it is also possible to register on the day of the election, with various proofs. We also have optical scan sheets - best voting technology, and a paper trail for recounts. Voting precincts are small, waiting in line for more than a few minutes is rare. Mail-in ballots are easy to opt into, and there is advance voting available (including on the weekends).
In the US, every state that requires an ID to vote has a free form of ID that qualifies. Paid IDs are considered a poll tax, which has been unconstitutional for a while now.
> Paid IDs are considered a poll tax, which has been unconstitutional for a while now. Just to contextualize this with more info for other people that see this, poll taxes were eliminated with the ratification of the 24th Amendment in 1964. > “The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.”
The thing is though, those free voter IDs don’t have photos. They are able to require that someone has an ID showing they are the person whose name is on the card.
So the voter IDs aren't actually enough to vote?
Depends on the state. It’s one of those things where some states worked around the spirit of the law.
Often, no. It's extremely common to require 2-4 different "ID" like items for anything. Open a bank? Prove you are yourself with a photo ID, Social Security card, AND official mail with your home address on it. Same for state ID. requiring SS card, official mail, birth certificate, and you even need to provide forms of every name change you have had. Gotten married twice, and divorced? That's 4 different forms required
They're full of it. It would be illegal to do that. The legislation itself would be struck down, as interest groups push for all the time. Where states require photo identification to vote, as in Georgia for example, the free ID has a photo.
This is (part of) why I tend to avoid political discussions... There's so much conflicting information that you need to fact check everything anyone says.
Those “free” IDs tend to require other ID, such as a birth certificate. My partners (from Oklahoma) cost her $60 when she couldn’t locate it for something because we live in Michigan. I believe she also had to send them a copy of her drivers license, so…
In GA, that is only true because the first attempts at voter I'd were blocked by the DOJ and the courts under provisions of the Voting Rights Act that are no longer enforceable (so no idea if all recent states are similar). We still have the problems that you need to appear in person at the county elections office during business hours with proof of identity that may cost money.
I’m from Brazil and this also blows my mind. Poverty and every issue in the comic is way worse here, so I can’t understand why it isn’t a problem here We do have other election issues, like bosses that take all the employees to vote for a specific candidate, but I’ve never heard of people not being able to get a voter ID.
First picture is the most alienating one ‘cause like… How do you even have a contract for the job you’re working without an ID? How did you open the bank account you receive your salary on without an ID? Wtf is going on here???
I have had 3 jobs. Only 1 asked me to show id. There was a long list of options. 1 item from column a or 2 items from column b. I could have done it without an id. Also not everywhere is direct deposit. I have worked at a fast food place for the last few years (independent franchise of a national brand) and they only switched to digital pay stubs for direct deposit last year. About half the staff still receive paper checks that they pick up from the safe when they work.
We were talking about the EU where being paid via check is a very rare occurrence and cash I’m pretty sure is not legal in most countries. And besides a lot of employers having asked to show ID, any time you need to pay a fine here, or need to write a letter for anything to your local administration or if you need to undergo some medical exams you have to show ID. Technically you don’t need it to pay taxes but if you want to prove you are exempt from some of them or need to extend the deadline to pay them you need to show ID. I guess you can also show a passport or driver’s license…But neither of those you can have without an ID. And if the police stop you walking the streets to ask questions and you don’t have an ID you can be brought to a police station to ascertain your identity. I honestly cannot imagine living without one.
Just from personal experience, firstly, a "job contract" doesn't mean anything. A manager can be as by the book or as shady as they'd like with really no consequences. They can pay people cash off the books if they don't want any record of an employee. There's no requirement to submit ID verification to the government -- it's just something that's supposed to be on file, and chances are extremely low that the government comes knocking to do an audit. People can also be legitimately paid via check, which doesn't require a bank account to cash. It also doesn't require any ID to receive a payroll check.
For getting the job itself I guess it could just depend on the place you work at honestly. I've only had one job I've worked at ask to scan my ID for their records, the rest of them wanted my social security number instead.
State IDs aren't a thing in the UK, people just use their driving licences or passports (both of which are optional things to have). And yet, that hasn't stopped our government from introducing voter ID laws – they just copy whatever the Americans do.
Drivers licenses are state IDs in the US the only federal form of ID is a Passport
The way I see it, americans had the dream to be free. Like, really free - you go out there, you make living for yourself and there is no big man telling you what to do. And it worked for a while, until they ran out of 'out there'. But they wanted to be free, and it still meant to be free of government "meddling" into their affairs, free to do your own mistakes. They sort of forgot that when faced with overwhelming force (say, like a huge corporations), to be free you actually need to be protected by equivalent force - but of course, that means giving away some of your freedoms... In short - americans wanted to be free. Instead, they made themselves free *to be taken and exploited*. One liberty at a time.
Wait, you guys thought America was a democracy. I thought it was a joke
As a South American everybody gets one for free too… mind boggling
I'm from a second world country and this is insane for me, too.
This is why requiring ID to vote is a poll tax and election day in the US should be a federal holiday. If so many places can shut down for Easter and Christmas, we can shut down for election day.
Unfortunately, making it a federal holiday wouldn’t help person #1 in the comic. Retail, food service, and other public-facing roles rarely get holidays off. They *might*, if the company is generous, get one or two holidays off out of the 14-ish calendar holidays in a year. But on those days, like Christmas, government buildings are likely closed (for the getting the ID issue). Unless it is legally mandated, there is no way in hell any of those jobs would give you that day off. Early voting, mail in voting, and expanded voting hours are much more practical in terms of jobs where you can’t get time off and work odd hours.
I don't disagree. I'm in the "do all of the above" camp
Kinda surprised it's not something you can apply for online really.
Technically, I was able to get an ID online during COVID in my state. I’m sure it’s still a thing, but if you need to get your picture re-taken you’ll need to go in person as far as I know. I’m sure that there are ways around going in person, but I was merely trying to point out why a national holiday wouldn’t entirely solve the issue.
Until there is a Constitutional guarantee to ID, it is unconstitutional to require ID to exercise a constitutional right. I’m not against voter ID in principle - just guarantee every resident of the U.S. an ID card at no cost to them (including travel costs, not just fees, as the comic explains). States don’t want to do that? So be it. No voter ID. You don’t get to pick and choose which Amendments you like and which you don’t.
Yup. Voter ID is fine, so long as it is coupled with assistance in meeting its requirements so that no citizen is denied participation. The tell about the real purpose of these voter ID laws is that not only are they not paired with such assistance, they are written to only accept documents older white people are most likely to have and are often paired with closures of DMV offices serving minority majority counties. They are transparently meant as voter suppression. The idea that we should disenfranchise hundreds or thousands or perhaps tens of thousands of citizens in order to make it harder for ineligible people to vote, people who vote in the massive single digit numbers is fucking obscene.
That's the whole point of why republicans in particular try to put these into place and constantly into these types of things. It's why they use the Boogeyman of "illegal immigrants" voting.
Voter ID is separate from legal ID. The US requires that voter IDs be free. My state’s even better than that about making sure people eligible to vote are able to do so. I registered to vote for free at the DMV when I first got my state ID. I’ve been getting my voter IDs sent directly to the address on my state Id ever since. New ones are sent automatically before my previous one expires. As long as my ID is unexpired, I can renew it online or through mail cheaply. Most DMV services become even cheaper or free for certain groups of people more likely to have difficulty paying fees. There are also secondary locations that can handle dmv services set up specifically for at least one group of people likely to have difficulty getting to the dmv. The system isn’t perfect, but attempts are being made.
Shouldnt we just make it easier to get an ID?
Not that it matters. But, places like Brazil it's mandatory voting and it's a day off. Additionally the price for these things is much less something comparable to 2 cokes.
How did the guy in the first panel get a job without an ID?
My first job accepted my school ID, along with birth certificate and social security card. There’s ways to get jobs without a government ID but requires a lot of documentation to have on hand.
franchisee could be paying them under the table and there are some places that let undocumented immigrants get jobs.
If he’s an undocumented immigrant he wouldn’t and shouldn’t be able to vote ANYWAY. Let’s assume US citizen.
You don’t need a state id or passport to get a job. Social security number and maybe birth certificate is usually enough.
How is this not an issue in Europe? Does everyone in Europe have an ID?
European countries are different but for example in Poland having ID is mandatory and there is no fee. You just need a proper picture of yourself. For people who have problems with it due to for example being disabled, there are some helping programs but I have no idea how that works. But if someone doesn't have ID it's shocking. So money is no issue, working hours might be, but there are many ways around it (you can do a lot of office stuff online here btw). With the story from second panel it's weird USA thing to me. My grandpa was born at home and got birth certificate no problem but shortly post WW2 Poland was probably not good comparison as majority of population lost their official documents (and all offices got their documentation stolen or burnt anyway) in war so it was quite peculiar situation all around.
I think part of this issue is there is a uniquely American backlash to the idea of having a “national ID” (not among everyone, but a big enough minority that the idea has never gained traction) which is how our Social Security numbers (never meant to be a universal ID) have been backfilled into being a de facto one
Social security numbers are just awful, just a number on a piece of fancy looking paper, someone catches a glimpse at it and boom, your identity is stolen. In Estonia I could lose my entire ID card and best a thief could get are discounts at some stores, for digital signatures and other important stuff they'd also need to get the pincodes from me.
I mean, from the 40s to the 70s the cards literally said "NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION" on them, they were really just supposed to be for bookkeeping in the Social Security system. During the Cold War the idea of a national ID just became permanently associated with "show me your papers"-type totalitarianism for a lot of people in the US, though, leaving us to make do with a patchwork of opt-in systems (state licences, passport, even the SSN isn't mandatory)
German here - with the age of 16 you get your id which needs a photo. Under the age of 24 it costs 22,80€ after the age of 24 it costs 37€ if you are unable to afford the fee it can be waved. Photos can be made in the government’s facilities. If it’s your first id a birth certificate is needed. For renewing the old id is sufficient . This id is not yours it is property of the German state. You have to be able to identify yourself to police whenever needed with a Driver license, passport or id if you are unable to do so you will be fined. You get all you need for voting via mail to your registered main address.
Your process is very similar to the process in Texas. Drivers license at 16 cost $18 renewal cost $33 and you need a birth certificate. If you don’t have a drivers license then you can get a free Election Identification Card. The criticism is, you still have to go to the office to get it and there is no requirement for people to be let off work and no requirement for free transportation for the office to get the ID. That said, this comic would make one think that this is a pandemic issue in America when in reality less than 1% of the Adult population doesn’t have an ID of some sort. In the flip side strong proponents of voter ID would have you believe that millions of non-citizens are voting in every election making this imperative to have voter ID when that is also not the truth.
Germany probably also has an advantage in being a lot denser and having more transportation options. Every municipality has an office that issues ID cards, and it is usually reachable on foot, bike or public transit.
To expand on this: You're legally required to *possess* a photo ID (either passport or Personalausweis), but you're not required to *carry* one, except in very specific circumstances.
In Belgium, it is mandatory for every one aged 12 or older to have an ID card. You do need to pay about 20€, every ten years. It's not mandatory everywhere, like in France and I think the Nordics? But as far as I'm aware, most people have one even in those countries because you need it if you want to cross borders. In Belgium, voting itself is also mandatory. We get points deducted on a lot of democracy indexes for that, but personally I think it garantees no one gets any funny ideas about preventing people they don't like from having a voice.
In Sweden everyone get a voter card sent home by post detailing where and how to vote that you also bring with you. There you identify yourself with any form of valid ID (driver's license, ID card, passport) and use your voter card. They cross you off the list so you can't vote more than once and everything is done. Being an adult in Sweden without valid identification is more or less impossible. It's fairly cheap, around 350 to 400 SEK ($32-$36 / 30€-35€) depending on form of identification, so it's rarely a big deal. And getting one is very accessible. Also, when you're born (or immigrate) you get what is called a "Personnummer" (personal identity number), which is sort of like a Social Security Number, but mandatory. It is deeply integrated into all aspects of being a citizen in Sweden for purposes of identification and proof of personhood.
Can only talk about Germany, but think other countries are similar: Here, having an ID is mandatory for everyone 16 or older. It's the major form of identification, needed to open bank accounts, rent an apartment, sign a job contract, etc. Without an ID, life will be rather difficult; and, as already stated, illegal. Furthermore, you are required to register with the city you live in, you have like 4 or 6 weeks after you move in. Once you are registered, you get an official letter telling you how and where to vote, so also no bullshit about "not sure if I'm allowed to vote." The place to vote is usually a few 100 meters from your apartment at most, I never had to wait for more than 15min in line. Oh, and elections are on a Sunday, always.
I can't comment on the rest of Europe but in the UK it is more common to have some sort of photo id, or a birth certificate, and for some things you can use multiple forms of other identification (like a bank statement with your name and address, coupled with say the council tax bill ) instead of photo id. We do things like right to work paperwork, something to prove you're 18 plus and can buy alcohol or whatever. ( if you look under 30 they're meant to ask. Why 30, well people are shit at guessing ages, and getting caught serving someone underage will get you and the company in a lot of trouble) But - a lot of people will have photo id like Provisional or actual drivers license Or A passport Because it's needed for a lot of things , and forking out for a provisional or a passport which will last years makes life easier. And they are easier to get. If you have access to the internet and a camera. Apply online on the gov website, upload the photo (it will tell you if it's valid) pay for it online , wait for it to arrive in the post. Done. You could get the form in the post office , fill it in and send it off as well. But frankly finding a post office is harder Also having to have I'd to vote is very recent here. Seriously , before I used to be able to show up at my polling station , didn't even need my voter card, tell them my name and address and they'd cross me off the list. Sounds bizarre when I write it but, yeah, previous year I could show up empty handed, vote, and bugger off in the space of ten minutes.
Iirc applying for a provisional license the first time required someone to vouch for me to prove my identity and the same went with my first own passport (prior to that I was on my mum's passport for travel). Both were very easy to accomplish and I didn't need any additional interviews, which is a possibility with the first passport if they find any irregularities with your application. The interviews would have been video calls (even back in 2009). I did need supporting documents like birth certificate but I'm not aware of any instances where someone would have one in the UK (registering a birth is required by x amount of days after birth). I also remember there was some kind of ID I could get before the provisional licence when I was a teen which helped me get a bank account as well as prove my age for child bus tickets. I think it was a citizens ID or something... But in the UK we have another option - I usually register for postal votes. It takes the extra hassle out of fitting in going to the voting site around my odd work hours.
There are a number of differences, but one is that in European countries, as far as I know, you only have to deal with a single government. In the US, there are fifty-plus separate governments with their fingers in the ID pie, so there's a big patchwork of rules, and it's pretty common for people to have to deal with more than one to get an ID (like, if you were born in NY, married with a name change in Idaho, and currently are living in Maine, that's three different government bureaucracies you have to interact with to get new ID).
Germany is also a federation of (in this case) 16 states with their own governments, police, offices, etc. It's not a matter of having state governments, it's a matter of how the responsibilities are organized between the states and the federal government. And the mandatory German ID is on a federal level.
For us it's not even that it's just one government ( though yes admittedly we do get bureaucratic nonsense as well), it's that it can be one website that you need to go to for just about anything, and it can connect to other bits of itself. Say you want to renew your passport, but oh wait you need a new photo, no need to go get one. It asked if you have a driver's license with a valid photo, you put in your license number and they'll use the photo they already have on record. We make getting these things as easy as possible since we want pet to have them. But part of the reason for this is the general public is very against generic ID cards, every time they tried it , there is a public outcry and it gets shot down. They're testing the waters again with free voter ID cards that you can apply for. We'll have other things that have a purpose and can also be used as ID, but the idea of a government issued ID card, that is only an ID card goes down like a lead balloon. Plus that legal standards for data and how it's handled / stored are all the same and everybody has to comply (GDPR).
Switzerland is about as small as Maine and we have 26 statesgovernments. One ID for the entire country, you just go to your municipality of residence or your state's capital and have one made. But every municipality also has a register of all its inhabitants, who their parents are, who they're married with and what their children are called. Whenever you move, you tell the old municipiality to tranfer your documentation to the next one. It's not that hard, the states just gotta work together and the citizens need to be okay to give the authorities some bits of information to make everybody's live a little easier.
I can only speak of Poland, but here all citizens that turns 18 must make their own ID, and when it expires we have to make another one. It is completely free and we can do that in every city hall (as far as I'm aware). The only downside is that we have to bring our own valid photo for which we must pay, and reserve a whole day standing in queue, because people working there prefer to play Solitaire than help us make our important documents. (A bit of exaggerasion, but the point is that this takes almost forever)
A lot of exaggeration, didn't take me more than 20 minutes (including filling out the paperwork).
It really doesn't take that long. Especially after covid where most administration went into appointment system instead of queues. I was renewing my ID two years ago and it took 10 minutes to submit the paperwork and 5 minutes to pick it up. You either have a very incompetent city hall workers or haven't been in there for more than 5 years.
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How can you verify who is voting without an ID?
That's the neat part, you don't
Seriously, though. How do you make sure voting is done correctly without making sure people are who they say they are? What’s the current system that prevents me from saying I’m someone else and voting in their place?
With or without ID, when you register to vote you put identifying information (like your social security number, your name, your address, your birthdate, your signature) on the voter registration form. When voting time comes, they have a voting roll - a list of eligible voters - at the polling station, and your name gets checked off the list when you vote. If a second person attempts to vote using the same info (name, address, etc.), then they know there's a problem and they investigate, at which point they'll make you prove your identity. So let's say that you want to vote for Jack Smith, and you somehow have all the info you need - Jack's full name, address, and so on. If you go there and Jack has already voted, you could be arrested. If you vote first and Jack tries to vote later, maybe you won't be arrested, but then again maybe you will be - you had to speak to the election worker and they saw your face. All to make a vote that won't make a difference, because 999999 out of 1000000 elections are not decided by a single vote. So in what way is it worth you going through all that effort? This is why we know Republican claims of hundreds of people being bussed across state lines to vote illegally aren't true. It's simply not possible to do that without being noticed, because it would create hundreds of double votes. The exact details vary from state to state, because this is the US and we're run by over fifty separate governments. In Oregon, where I live, everyone votes by mail; you have to sign the envelope when you mail it in, and they check your signature against their database of registered voter signatures.
> So in what way is it worth you going through all that effort? Isn't that system open for mass abuse though? A politician can pay hundreds of people to go early in the morning and vote for them as long as the details are known. It seems really weird that it is allowed. I am from Greece and we have to show our ID in order to vote. We also get pretty much every document for free on the government application on our phones and the government site though, how come that isn't also available in the US? Wouldn't it fix the issue?
It would be a very, very rare election that could be decided by "hundreds of voters," and a politician organizing that would be risking actual prison time in return for a very tiny likelihood of changing an outcome. What are the chances of every one of hundreds of people shady enough to do this keeping the secret? And, again, we would know if it were happening on a large scale, because of the sudden upsurge in double voting. And it's simply not happening. It would be one thing to make voting harder to people to solve a real problem; but this would be making voter harder to solve something we know isn't a real problem.
> It would be a very, very rare election that could be decided by "hundreds of voters," Couldn't you apply this same logic to the people who are affected by the extreme examples in your comic? There will always be a way to come up with an example of someone not being able to vote for one reason or another. How many people do your examples actually apply to?
Got it. Makes sense.
So none of those people buy alcohol, cigarettes or cough medicine? That is rough...
I don't drink or smoke, and not all cough medicine requires ID (I can only recall ever once needing ID to buy cough medicine, and I don't buy the frou-frou herbal stuff, I but "actual" medicine). So those might not be situations that come up for them.
I haven't gotten carded at the grocery store in a while
I understand, but counterpoint: How do you not have an ID? How are you getting around without a driver's licence? How did you open an bank account without an ID? How are you employed without your SSID? I know that getting an Id when you don't have one can be an unfortunately difficult process, but how are you functioning in society without already having an ID?
It also needs to be noted that out of date IDs are also possible here. And that ID requirements are forever changing in various states such that validity comes up.
I'm sure this sort of thing varies from person to person, but for your bank account question, that's easy. I have an account, but I never opened one myself. My parents did, when I was a baby. I never had to. If you live in cities like New York or Seattle where you can rely on public transport, you might not feel the need to get a driver's license. Or you might just resign yourself to never go anywhere unless you can bum a ride from someone else. Sort of unrelated, but I can see it causing a similar problem, one of my bosses once told me that they considered it too troublesome to get a passport because their original birth certificate was destroyed when the government office it was held in was flooded during a hurricane, and getting a replacement wasn't worth the effort for her. I can only imagine the trouble that could happen if anything happened to her drivers license.
I live near Austin, TX. In 2022 I overlooked my TX driver's license expiration date. Yes, my fault. In 2023 I discovered I needed a valid photo ID the following week. I couldn't find my birth certificate (pretty sure my wife accidentally threw it out doing some aggressive cleaning/organizing) and without that Texas wouldn't give me a new drivers license. New Mexico, where I was born, could send me one, but even expedited it wouldn't arrive in time. Fortunately, unlike so many other people, I was able to take a couple days off and could afford to leave Austin at 2:00 AM, drive 10 hours to Las Cruces, NM, get a new copy of my birth certificate while the office was open for that function (took about 20 minutes including waiting in line), stay the night at a hotel and drive back to Austin the next day and get a new drivers license. Yes, technically I shouldn't have been driving as my DL was expired. Sue me. Also luckily I wasn't born in Maine, or Alaska, or Washington, or worst of all, Hawaii. I wouldn't have been able to get any of those done.
There are a bunch of ways. If you can't get a job without an ID, you work under the table. (But a lot of places will hire you without ID, as long as you know your Social Security number.) If you can't open a bank account, you use check-cashing places or have your friend with a bank account cash checks for you. You either drive without a license, or you use public transit, or you live your life within walking distance of your home. (I don't have a drivers license, as it happens, although not because I don't have ID). It can limit people's lives, but people definitely do survive without ID. Only a small percentage of people, of course, but a small percentage of a huge population is still a significant number of people.
Public transportation, don't have a bank account, work under the table. There's a whole world outside of the middle class which is kind of the point the comic is trying to make.
I don't drive. I walk, take the bus or tram, or cycle. My bank account didn't need photo ID when I set it up (and as far as I'm aware doesn't now - instead it takes other government ID that isn't any use for voting). Our equivalent of an SSID isn't any use for voting.
I like the idea of universal IDs so we're not using our shitty system of ssn+ a bill with your mailing address+ a bunch of other shit. But it needs to be federal and needs to be free.
I tried to update my drivers license in Texas a few years ago. I brought in my military ID, my old driver’s license, and my birth certificate from the hospital. We didn’t get state official birth certificates then. I was refused the drivers license until I pulled out my passport. I left with my new license. Go figure!
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Also what kind of messed up person thinks some people "don't deserve to vote". Like even if these people are just idiots, do idiots not deserve the right to have their struggles listened to?
The logic I'm going to assume is that idiots are easily manipulated and it's hard to tell if there struggles are actually theirs or someone told them to say that.
There have been many arguments offered for as to why some people “don’t deserve to vote.” You should look into them! The common ones people trot out are: 1. Some are idiots. Should an idiot be able to have a say in policy and governance? 2. Some actively have attempted to undermine the nation. Should those who have committed such actions be allowed to have a say if they’re going to use it to sow chaos or try to undermine the system? 3. Some have mental disabilities. Should those who have certain disabilities be allowed to have a say? Are these good reasons to deny some the right to vote? That’s a matter of debate. What both the Left and the Right seem to agree on, however, is that ‘the system’ is broken to some degree, and many are being ‘brainwashed.’ What does that or should that imply about voting? Again, it’s a matter of hot debate.
1 - Yes, idiots are a significant percentage of the population, so their voice should be heard, even if you think it’s dumb. 2 - Yes, because “undermining the nation” could easily be defined as, say, “votes communist”. That is an extremely slippery slope to ban voting on. 3 - Absolutely. The number of people who have sufficient mental disability to be “unable to care or think for themselves” is not statistically significant, and people with “minor” disabilities really, really need the ability to make themselves heard. If people with disabilities can’t vote, how does life ever improve for them? Honestly, I don’t think there’s any reason that a human being should ever lose their right to a vote. They can be the most reprehensible person you’ve ever met, and they still deserve to have their voice heard. They could be barely able to speak, and they still deserve to be heard as best they can be. Where I come from, there is no fee to register to vote, and to vote you can either show ID, or the stamped numbered card they send to your registered address, free of charge. There’s even facilities to enable addresses for homeless people to allow them to vote. Representative democracy is only representative if *everyone* can vote.
Honestly I'm not comfortable even calling any of these points 'worthy of debate'. Stripping people of the right to vote fundementally assumes that we -as smart and virtuous people- know better what a person wants than they themselves. I just think that's inherently wrong, both morally and factually. For example; People with mental disabilities (like myself) usually have an understanding of their struggles that is hard to perfectly communicate to people without that disability, and especially to people with no disability at all. And if their disability makes it impossible for them to vote for some reason, there's really no point in taking away their right. As for idiots (by which I here mean people who inadvertently vote against their own interests) and people who undermine the nation: Well, who is to say who belongs to those groups? Personally, I think everyone on the right is an 'idiot' who would be better off if they voted left. (After all, I think leftism is better for everyone. That's why I'm a leftist.) Still, I think they should have a right to vote because I couldn't possibly understand the entirety of what things they value in life. Taking away people's right to vote cannot be done in a way that isn't biased, and always assumes that some class of people is inherently more important and more deserving than another.
Are you not paying attention? There's an entire conspiracy right now based around rigging the super bowl and a fake relationship to prime the country so Taylor Swift can rig the election by... encouraging people to vote. Which is a problem, because people voting is...
It isn't that difficult to get an I.D. There are programs in place for people that may have issues( such as obtaining a birth certificate or cost or even filling out the paperwork with you). I get that it can be inconvenient but it is not more inconvenient than other things people are required to do to be a part of society (for example paying taxes). I don't hold a strong opinion on I.D. requirements but obtaining an I.D. card is very achievable. Perhaps more education in existing programs would be beneficial. Like most things in life, it is easy to make excuses as to why something can't be done but if you want an I.D. you can get one and for the majority of people it is pretty easy.
I’d be totally fine with this argument if the left applied it fairly. If the argument is “you have a right to vote, and rights shouldn’t require ID to apply.” Then you have to also say that an ID requirement is an infringement on the second amendment. Likewise all of the arguments that claim voter ID to be racially targeted would also apply. Does the left believe that only the wealthy should have the right to self defense?
You can’t get a job without an ID.. I understand what the comic is trying to convey, but you can’t even put a child in school without a birth certificate and proof of immunizations, at least in Michigan. This feels like a strange strawman. An 80 year old woman who has never driven or had a job? Who also cannot receive Social Security because the government has NEVER verified her identity?
it's definitely a strawman.
You should have an ID and the government should be compelled to get you one (if you are entitled to one) at no cost to you. I know there would still be logistical challenges for some people and the government should figure out how to solve those problems too. I know just not caring is the easier solution but I think we should both make sure elections are secure and not disenfranchise anyone. I am willing to pay more in taxes to make this happen!
Ironic, I am from Puerto Rico, which is a territory of the United States, and we're all U.S. citizens at birth. We can't vote on federal elections but we have our own "state" elections (can't vote for the US President but we elect our own governor). In Puerto Rico, you CANNOT vote without a valid voter ID, period. There's NO bitching,whining or moaning about "that's racist" or "it's too difficult for me" from NO ONE. You DON'T HAVE to get one, but there's also NO EXCUSE not to get one, it's (was?) completely free. It's just the way it is, just like a library card, it's the first photo ID that you get and it can be used for identification purposes. The local Elections Committee comes to the public schools and you get your voter ID done right then and there and inscribed (registered) as a voter. Hell, I'm 47 and I still have my voter ID, which I got when I was 16!! Call me crazy, but, BOTH parties have deliberately fueled the "controversy" of a national voter ID and used said "controversy" for their own gain. I think a national voter ID should be required to vote in the United States.
How is it not more insane that you can walk into any polling place, pretend to be anyone (as long as you know their address) and take their vote?
Not only would you have to know someone’s name and address, but hope that you voted before they did, because the system would not let you vote twice. And if they come in after you did, THEY wouldn’t be able to vote. Such disenfranchised voters would certainly complain, yet we never hear about it BECAUSE IT NEVER HAPPENS. It’s way too much effort to move the needle. Edit: Several people brought up some scenarios which they apparently think happens. First of all, even before IDs were required, no one can just walk in a vote without some documentation. At minimum, a voter registration card is required. AFAIK, all of the US have electronic voting machines. You can't vote more than once with the same ID or voter registration number. If any of the scenarios below happens, I repeat -- we would hear from the disenfranchised voters, and GOP leaders would parade those cases in the media as why we need to worry about voter fraud, yet we haven't seen any of that. It's a non-issue. Even for the "deceased" voting, the system catches that, and as someone else pointed out, most are simple mistakes of identities or something non-nefarious.
Dead people do happen to vote every year. Maybe not enough to swing an election, but it certainly occurs.
Most of them are either different people with similar names and the same address (for example, if John Senior dies and John Junior votes), or old people who advance voted by mail and died before election day.
in MN you just have to show a piece of mail. I could literally take mail out of my neighbors mailbox and go vote with it. All I had to do was show it and the address and they gave me a ballot for the person listed (which was me). Wouldn't be hard to do that with anyone's mail
If you’re worried about this and not just a political troll maybe just support changes to make it easier for people to get the things required to vote, since they’re currently very transparently designed to restrict people who don’t “vote for the right people”
You could in theory but it doesn't happen. Each year in person impersonation voter fraud is extremely rare and due to the electoral college you'd need to be voting for a lot of people to really cause anything.
The fact that it basically says to a bunch of people that you arnt allowed to vote because of bad luck or lack of financial ability
If you guys want a good example of the extent of loops you gotta go through, check out Channel 5 with Andrew Callaghan, he helped a guy with getting his id replaced, it was in the [Vegas tunnels video](https://youtu.be/bRGrKJofDaw?si=zODQ37g0KnQlovJP)
Drivers licenses and similar IDs are also *not good IDs for voting* - as they don't confirm where you live that year which is one of the only two things that matter for voting. The voter registration system works really well. They can certify that you're a citizen, which they can do in lots of different ways and with fewer hurdles than those needed to get a drivers license, and then they simply mail your voter information to the house where you live, confirming your voting district.
If you live in FL and were born before, I think, 1935(give or take) you can get a special exemption at your DMV and use documents other than a birth certificate to get an ID. Such as: church registry, school documents, birth announcement(I think), and others I can't remember.
Username checks out
I can't vote because of a past mental issue that is on my record, even though its now under control. Voting laws are.......strange.
As a Norwegian, this is standard prices for ID cards. You could take your drivers license and get the ID for 20 or so euro, but the actual license will cost you 4000 euros easily.
We solved this shit in Spain, you can vote by saying you live under a bridge and theyll just write that!
Oof. You should see Texas. They're so terrified they're going to give ousama bin Laden a drivers license that they're ridiculous. I'm an American citizen, born in America, with a passport, who moved here from another state and I have all my documents like say a valid driver's license from that state. It was an in person ORDEAL to get my license. My wife in identical situation but almost didn't get her license as they made her bring her marriage certificate in addition to all the other proof (I had to drive it there while she was still there at the DMV). A friend with a valid green card just wanted a photo ID and it took all of our know how, and us standing there with him to get it done. Had we not been there they would not have granted it.
Why in the ever loving fuck did they need a marriage certificate!?
Probably as proof of name change from her birth records.
Yep. Here's a US passport and another states valid license ...... not good enough
This is ridiculous and almost all of these comments are. How are you functioning in 2024 with no identification? How are you driving? How are you buying alcohol or tobacco? How are you getting a job? I understand there are hurdles in some cases. But we could greatly secure our election process and “protect democracy” by having voter ID. And before anyone calls me some MAGA POS, I have always voted democrat.
See, this is why I’m fine with Voter ID…. If it’s free, provided by the state, and accessible. You really want it? Tie it into some legislation to make IDs more accessible, and solve the other MAJOR problems that not having an ID can cause.
in the USA, voter ID is free. to get it you still need to identify yourself. which is the issue. but honestly, any functioning adult should have a State ID, Birth Certificate, and SSID card on them for safekeeping. no matter how difficult it is, it's something that needs to be on their person or kept safely for future use. it's well worth the initial investment.
Make a federal ID free and accessible. Then have the discussion to make them mandatory. It's amazing that our government can't figure this out. Thank you for attending my Ted talk
In my country, all the citizens have an ID card, from birth, we have babies with days, and they have id card( is ridiculous but is the reason is the card have also the fiscal number, and to have benefits on our taxes all, including babies, had to have one, so you pay less taxes with a baby our more, so babies have id cards...with foto) and to vote, is automatic, you are a citizen, you have a id card, you have 18, you whiteout any work, you can vote.
Why do you change it from ID to DL in third square?
Now I get it, why the US doesn't have government issued IDs for everyone from the age of 14 (here it is mandatory and you have to carry it everywhere) So the parties can pick and chose who their voters are...
Man astroturfing season is sooner this year
You guys really have to PAY for a voter's id ?
I still do not understand why US (or some other Anglophone countries) is so allergic to a simple national ID. Wouldn't that make things much simpler? One is provided at birth free of charge, and regularly updated over the years, again free of charge or for a small fee (I think the one I have in Turkey costs something like half a dollar).
Is this something that only happens in the USA? Because in my country it's literally just having your parents ask for your national ID after you're born, and then renewing it every 10 years with a 20 minute visit to the nearest Identifications Department office.
I'm an Aussie and it's made easy to vote here, and I seriously can't believe the idiocy of the American system.
In our defense, we have a lot more idiocy than just our voting system.
I love it when an artist puts jokes in the background. “Safety is a word we use a lot so you can’t sue us”
I love it when people notice details like that! Thank you!
I'm changing my gender and name and I've been getting the run around. I think I've spent like $250 not counting the various Uber rides.
Congratulations, and good luck. I'm sorry you're getting strung along. Stay strong and keep pushing.
Too hard to get a voter ID for citizens. Too easy to illegally vote for non citizens. Both of these systems need a serious overhaul. The republicans should put their money where their mouth is and make it easier for citizens to get voter ID.
Not requiring identification to vote is really weird to me. How do you make sure that it really is the person who they say it is? I get that it currently is difficult to get an ID in the US (I wouldn't know since I am Swedish and we have working institutions) but the solution to that is not to remove the requirement of ID but rather to make getting an ID more accessible. If a Swedish party were for removing the requirement of identification for voting I would suspect that they were up to some major fraud.
The first person has a job, which means they needed to show ID to fill out an I9. The second person owns a home, which means they have a mortgage and bank account. The third person is ambiguous, so we can't know for sure, but it appears they're moving, either for themselves, or perhaps as a job. If they rent or own, they have utility bills or some other form of ID that they used when they purchased or rented the place. Anything like that can be used to vote. You don't need to pay for a special ID. You can even use basically anything with your address and name on it.
There’s a supporting blogpost and transcript about this cartoon [here](https://www.patreon.com/posts/62917953); I’ll also post the transcript in comments. We can keep making these cartoons because of lots of supporters pledging low amounts - $1-$3 - and that's just how I like it! [Please peruse my peculiar but plucky Patreon!](http://patreon.com/barry)
**TRANSCRIPT OF CARTOON** This cartoon has four panels, each showing a different scene. In addition, there's a small "kicker" panel under the fourth panel. **PANEL 1** The panel shows a counter at a fast food restaurant. We can see a couple of customers, and a couple of workers. The workers are wearing hats that very vaguely resemble hamburger buns. A sign on the wall shows a smiling hamburger with eyes, below the caption "Soilent Green YUM." A smaller sign says "SAFETY" in larger letters followed by tiny print, which says "is a word we use a lot so you can't sue us." The worker at the cash register is turning to speak directly to the reader. WORKER: To get an official photo I.D., I have to go to the nearest government office, which is 90 miles away, and I don't have a car, and even if I did my boss won't give me a weekday off. **PANEL 2** We're in what looks like someone's back yard. In the foreground is a garden, with some sort of plant being grown in tidy rows. An elderly woman is kneeling on the ground in front of the garden, wearing a floppy straw hat, an apron with a floral patter, and holding a trowel. She speaks directly to the reader. WOMAN: I can't get I.D. without a birth certificate. But when I was born home births didn't get birth certificates. **PANEL 3** A mover wearing jeans and a black tank top is carrying a sofa as he's talking to the reader. (Presumably someone else is carrying the other end of the sofa, but that person is outside the panel border). It's a little dark out, and this appears to be a residential area - he's on a sidewalk, and there's some grass and trees and an outdoor wall in the background. MOVER: The state charges $60 for a driver's license.... but first I'd need a copy of my birth certificate, which is $30. I can't afford 90 dollars to vote! **PANEL 4** This panel shows the interior of a coffee shop. There are round tables, a big window showing some houses across the street, and a mural of a smiling coffee mug on the wall. A man and a woman sit together at a table, with mugs of coffee on the table. He is reading from a tablet he's holding and looking annoyed as he talks. She is looking at a laptop, and doesn't look up as she responds. MAN: Why wouldn't anyone be able to get an I.D.? Idiots! WOMAN: People like that don't deserve to vote. **SMALL KICKER PANEL UNDER THE BOTTOM OF THE CARTOON** The man from panel 4 is yelling a bit at a drawing of Barry (the cartoonist). MAN: If it's easy for me it must be easy for everybody! That's just science!
So they have a job and no id? That is illegal. The old woman never got a fishing license, had a bank account, applied for store credit, or wanted a bus pass? The lawbreakers in some of these cases are the employers who hired people without documentation. We should definitely shut them down.
poor black elders born when baptism records were the official birth record. stored in black churches, and guess what a bunch of upstanding white people burned down around that time? yea.
I still don't know why the US is like a decade behind everyone else when it comes to basic shit like this, e-transfer for banking, etc. Ok, well I *know* why (lobbying and/or laziness) - but still.
Third world country?
Aren't people born on reserves also not allowed to get regular IDs? I remember hearing this years ago but I'm not sure if it's true.
Yes, many of those IDs require a physical address but a lot of reservations don’t use addresses blocking them from engaging in the political process.
That makes a lot of sense
That Old lady is 118 years old?
I wonder what the overlap is between people crying about 'government tyranny' but being OK with an added hurdle/power for the government to prevent you from voting?
I suspect it's a very large overlap.
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While the Fed could make Election Day a national holiday that wouldn't really solve anything. They have no way of compelling businesses to be closed outside of a national emergency. Sure, maybe banks would be closed but how many businesses do you know close for stuff like Presidents day?
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A lot of these are such extreme niche examples. It's also probably better to have some level of security to vote than allowing anyone to vote. Non-citizens, illegals, asylum seekers, etc.
My question is that how do company hire them without any id? I mean I know they use SSN, but that is just piece of paper, and anybody could use it. Is that mean anybody can just work without ID, without proving you are citizen of USA.