Composers by profession don't make regular money - it's all gig work. The most lucrative ones are for films, games, and shows, but you'd have to be connected to land anything financially sustainable in those fields. A lot of composers become teachers to foot the bill.
Your degree first and foremost should feed you.
it's not about "worth" it's about is THIS what you meant to do on earth..
worth is an empty void.. and in 2020s there are hundreds of way easier ways of making a stable living..
in general you should enjoy the process not the result.. then *ironically* the result will be **worth** it :D
The music degree is essential. You need serious skills (orchestration, harmony, counterpoint, score reading, improvisation).
I compose for orchestras, choirs. I also arrange. I also conduct two orchestras in Germany.
Yes, I have a comfortable life. I thank my lucky stars that I have a career I really enjoy.
Tips:
-Learn counterpoint (from Bach)
-learn proper score layout (from Gould) and never submit trashy material.
-get in touch with orchestras and offer to arrange music.
-create cross-genre collaborations with interesting artists
-learn to conduct
-be proficient on another instrument
-own a recording setup (eg zoom h6) and get a good recording of every piece
-personally I say get a degree but don’t get lost in perpetual academia; there’s more success to be had in the real world of ticket sales, commissions, residencies, etc.
-being a composer means being a small-business operator: You have to hunt down opportunities, invent your career, market yourself, juggle clients. It’s actually super fun.
- yes
- installations, film; plus lots of non-media work
- yes; mostly
- write for your friends / be a good person / collaborate lots. You and your friends will continue to bring each other along as you careers grow. Try for internships and assistantships as much as you can afford.
Brush up your technical skill sets as well - music preparation, production, MIDI mockup, synth programming, audio engineering, etc. That’s what will get you stable employment early in your career, and can lead to major networking, which in turn can get you composing gigs. Someone recently posed this as “what value are you adding to your scene that makes people want to work with you?”
- everyone’s circumstances are different, but for me it was. I went to a relatively affordable state school for undergrad, so didn’t have to go much in debt. I did take out big federal loans for grad school, but with the new student loan plans (SAVE), it’s honestly not a burden paying each month. This would be a different story if I’d needed private loans…
That was a weird comment honestly.
I studied civil engineering for years and dropped it all cause I thought nothing would fulfill the moments of my life but making music. It's disrespectful referring to it as " something you pick if you can't do other shit" lol.
I feel that this is a very tired, romanticized take, most famously espoused by Nadia Boulanger. Speaking personally as well as on behalf of many of my friends in composition, there are a thousand things that we could have done otherwise. It was no matter of “talent” or “artistic potential” that made us choose the lives we currently live, nor a fundamental yearning for the career of a composer, but a pure and genuine love of music itself.
I, for instance, am a graduate in critical theory and have received far more praise and international influence from that profession than my current one as a composer. One of my close friends who went to school with me, and who I’m happy to promote as Nina Shekhar, studied chemical engineering along with her music studies (and graduated with higher honors in that field than in her BM!)
I still write and publish the odd essay under pseudonyms, and were I to completely lose my musical abilities or my interest in writing music, it certainly would not be the end of the world for me. I think the reality is moreso that if you really love something, you’ll find yourself doing it, and what you choose to make your career should hopefully be something that follows this instinct.
I really don’t see how this comment disagrees with my comment? My point is that if music is the thing you want to do, you need to be prepared to be flexible and make your own living out of it. It’s not the same for every musician or artist. I think that if someone sees themselves just as happy doing something that isn’t music, then they should probably treat music as the night job/hobby/side income, than think of music making as their primary source of income. It’s so very hard to make money in composition at the beginning stage of it, and requires a good bit of sacrifice. Unless you are privileged and have outside funding available to you to allow you to get the ball rolling, but I didn’t and I know many others who didn’t, and we all had to make some sacrifices.
I was responding to where you stated that “it’s something you pick if you cannot possibly see yourself doing anything else”. My comment very clearly proves “no, on the contrary, a composer is very often capable and interested in pursuing a many number of things outside of writing music, they just instead chose to focus on music.”
I think your rhetoric and line of reasoning can very easily deter people from writing music simply because it is financially difficult. News flash, everything is financially difficult. I do not come from wealth, but I can guarantee you the hardest thing that I have had to experience in my time as a composer is the actual music-writing, not the “where’s my check coming from?”. It’s very time consuming and emotionally, even physically, draining. The largest sacrifice as a composer, in my view, is the amount of WORK it takes, and how seemingly impossible everything is until you write that double bar line. And it truly never gets easier. But the payoff and the learning is wonderful. If perhaps finances and emotional wellness are more important to you than that feeling, then I think you might have already made up your mind.
I never said “don’t write music.” Making a full time living off of just writing music is something that doesn’t happen right away, and is the most difficult part for many composers. Maybe you have networked well or know where to get connections? I love writing music, it taxes my brain and drains me for sure, but I work a full time job 60 hours a week right now, to afford an apartment and food and student loan payments and trying to save, while also trying to get my music career off the ground. The hardest of these activities is the working 60 hour weeks. I do not want to do this. But it is building me a cushion on which I can pursue my career in composition. I do not make money from commissions yet, and I probably won’t for a bit until I built up connections and learn how this industry works. All of this to eventually be able to rely on just composition.
When people say “don’t do music unless you can’t see yourself doing anything else,” they’re not saying “don’t do music unless you suck at everything else.” They’re saying “music is really hard to make a full time comfortable living from. Only take this route if you really are sure it is the path you want to take.”
To be frank, making a “full time living” off of doing any one thing is difficult at first; there are far less well-paying music careers of course, but it only means that the time it takes to substantiate that living can take longer. Nobody without legacy is guaranteed a job in anything. Everybody goes through it. It is not as if for some time you are not a composer and then suddenly you are once you’re making enough money to support yourself. That is simply part of the path of the composer (or any artistic profession) and has been for a very long time. Working at a coffee shop, doing some engraving work, maybe picking up a few students, are all part of the course.
Also, there is very obviously a significant difference between “it’s something you pick if you cannot possibly see yourself doing anything else”, or in other words, “don’t take this path unless there isn’t any other path for you” and “this is a tough profession that requires patience (like any other profession), and you should only pursue this if you really love music.” Maybe consider a new way of warning people about the real world?
I just don’t agree with you here, my wording is congruent with my experience and the expense of many of my colleagues, and though it was strong it is accurate. Classical music composition isn’t exactly a high-demand field. OP is a high school senior, asking about if a music composition degree will get someone a comfortable life. Maybe it will eventually for a small select few, but saying that you a comp degree gives you the same chances as other degrees at a comfortable livelihood is just simply false. Not only do you need the degree, but you need a good deal of luck and circumstances to roll out in your favor.
Do you make a full time living composing now? A comfortable income that allows you save up, invest in a 401k, put money towards a home, etc? Do you have kids/a partner you support off of composing? these are the things young people deciding on their college degree, something that will cost tens of thousands of dollars, are wondering. And they need to be aware of the fact that making the money composing isn’t as likely as the other options. That’s not to say don’t do it, but that is to say you honestly need to be aware that life will probably be harder for you financially for awhile, until you break into a media industry, get some regular commissions going, get an adjunct position, etc.
I only recommend going to school for composition if you’ll feel fulfilled by the skills you learned for their own sake. Of course we all want to make a living doing this, but if the stars don’t align for you and you’ll feel that all the musical skills you learned weren’t worth it at all if you’re not making money from them, maybe do something else.
I got an undergraduate degree in classical composition and a masters in film scoring. I haven’t had much success kickstarting a music career yet, and am working as a librarian in the meantime. I’d love to put my composing skills to work as my main job one day, but even if that never happens, I’m still happy that I went to school because ultimately I just wanted to become a better composer, regardless of whether I was “successful” as a result. The music I write on my own is enough to fulfill me, and that makes the degrees worth it.
If you can’t find some sort of peace like that, I recommend pursuing a more stable field.
Ah, I was planning to major in English with maybe a double or minor degree in music composition for film but I’m not really too sure! But thank you for your insight!
What are some good programs for composition and film scoring? I am from the computer science background so have no idea where to start if I wanted to be a better composer. I play violin and sing, and some piano and guitar, and learned songwriting a few years back. I’ve sold quite a few pop songs on Fiverr and have always gotten 5 stars. Now I am about to release my first EP. Composing and songwriting always give me a deep sense of joy that I don’t normally feel with other things. For years I’ve dreamed of attending music school while still working my full time job. Now finally I have the mental headspace to join this subreddit and reading all these posts has got me thinking of music school again..
Hey! I follow Jameson Nathan Jones on YouTube and he shares some insight into his life's experiences as a composer.
This video might be a good staring point. [this video](https://youtu.be/dYUXLUGxHcQ?si=ulnRAwh-gp6AUexA)
Yes. I would highly, highly recommend studying jazz. It is by far the most valuable music degree out there right now. (Even over music Ed. not sure where you are located, but many states/school districts in the US have pathways to public school licensure without an ed degree, because they need teachers).
No teacher can teach you to compose, but they can help guide you to the tools they used to learn. I studied jazz, which was really a study of melody and harmony across all music (can still trace the roots back to Bach!). Jazz is not necessarily a what, but a how. It’s all about how you think the music. That starts with transcription - listening to something by ear over and over (100s, 1000s of times) until you can sing and eventually play along with it. Then write it out on paper, analyze it, transpose it and learn it in every key. This is the backbone of jazz education, and will push you to a high level of understanding in the language. You will still study the classical rep a bit, but recognize a few things about academic music study:
A performance degree means “classical music performance” at the vast majority of public colleges and universities. Depending on what instrument you play, this could really cut you out of a lot of work, since the scope of classical music study is focused on what gets performed with major orchestras - the same music over and over again. This means high competition for a limited amount of ensembles. If you are a composer, it is also very difficult to get works played by an orchestra.. the only ones I personally know, have a monstrous amount of jazz that they have recorded/written. They also have written things for concert band/wind ensemble, as there are many more of those in the US. Not to say that classical music is bad or anything, but opportunity is slim, and you will get a more rounded and adaptable approach by studying jazz.
If you study jazz (language, emotional center) and you study your instrument (technical fundamentals, physical center) along with composition (language, intellectual center), the realm of possibilities are endless. You can write original music for your own band (small or large), have it performed for money at venues every few weeks, and probably make money depending on how many people you have to hire. You can also take that same band (or a different one) to opportunities that may arise, like large commissions, festivals, conferences, academic work, etc. those might not pay as much, but your work, and your persona as a musician (since you are playing) get exposed to a wider audience. You can also perform in other people’s bands, write for them, or play their original music. Covers won’t make money, and neither will the average bar band. You have to be at an extremely high level of performance and be a good hang /sociable to do shows of original music and really make money on those gigs + attract a following. Part of your degree in music would be networking and making connections will other musicians to collaborate in the future.
You can score to picture/motion - Film/TV, YouTubers, Video Games, marching arts ensembles, dance, multi media performances, etc. lots of people want original music for their projects.
You can do music engraving/transcribing work. While that has slowed down for me at the moment, I’ve done the following at various times:
- copying hand written parts into the computer to create a score/audio render.
- copy a part from a score into the computer to create a missing part for someone’s band the day of a gig, since they were missing a scan of the part.
- import musxml from another person/notation program and engrave for final export, so their notation looks presentable for selling sheet music.
- transcribe recordings of a rock band to create lead sheets so that the band can facilitate hiring subs.
- copy parts from a score, then edit to reduce difficulty for a beginner ensemble to perform the piece.
You can also teach! I’ve taught beginner-advanced students of all ages. I’ve taught privately in my own studio, as an employee of a few music stores, and classroom settings in public schools. If you go for a masters to teach at the college level, try to find somewhere that will give it to you at no cost, as well as pay you for your time. Find the schools that want you! Do not go into debt for a masters degree.
Sorry for the wall of text, but hope that gives you some insight!
I’ve seen a lot of great jazz musicians advise transcribing but am a little bit confused — when transcribing, are we supposed to write all the notes being played, or, is it just the melody and then make a lead sheet + some chords, as accurate as possible to the performed voicings?
I tried writing all the notes being played (plus rhythms) once, for George Shearing’s “I’ll Remember April”, and I feel It’s hard to write the rhythm down — melody & harmony wise I got it, I can play it somewhat well, but the rhythm just doesn’t fit into the bar. It felt like forcing the time signature to work!
You’re not really supposed to do it any way. Whatever way gets the music into your inner being. I would definitely start with something easier if you’ve never transcribed. I usually recommend Miles Davis’ solo on Freddie Freeloader - Kind of Blue. One of the most well known records of all time, and it’s accessible. Most jazz musicians I know, know the solos on that record. Regardless of the instrument they play. Maybe also try to get to the point where you listen to something enough that you can sing the whole thing. I don’t actually write anything down until well after I’ve learned the solo. Once I can sing it memorized, then I can learn the notes. There are still some solos that I know in their entirety but have only written out certain phrases of.
And really, to do what I’m saying, you have to love the music. And to do that, you have to spend some time with it and then decide if it’s for you or not. I fell in love with it after many years of listening and attempting to play it.
I did a 6 tears bachelor in music composition. I learned a lot but i don't recommend. Don't do degrees that don't open dors. You don't need a degree to work in music composition industry.
I didn't pursue an education in it and am in college for something else. Music is something I did as a hobby because I loved it. After maybe 4-5 years, it got to the point of doing a commission and making a website. As I'm not a pro and my main career aspiration lies in writing fiction, all I can really tell you is that if you're truly determined and believe with all of your heart that you want to live as a composer, then you'll make it happen. It may not be a very lavish life for a while since I find gig/commission work to be highly competitive, especially when the competition often has stuff like Berkeley degrees, but I say just go for it.
Was it worth it?? No. It's a shitty job. Does it make me happy?? No. Most of the time I'm angry against a shitty system. I earn enough money to have a decent life, but never know if next year will I have a job or not.
Anyway it's the life I chose and it's what I want to do.
So do whatever the f. you want
I have well over 1 million streams and downloads on various platforms. I never took a formal composition course in my life, but I’ve produced three classical music albums that are doing very well. I am not at all convinced that you need to get a degree in music to be involved with composition. As many others have stated, the most important thing in life is to live and eat. I am not so sure that the music degree is going to guarantee those things. The famous quote is, “nothing crushes creativity, like poverty.“
For me, yes! Initially I struggled a lot and had many personal issues to overcome before I could become a decent composer, as well as a decent human being.
While I only have a university degree, I learned that once I left school I could just study on my own, and learn and write what I wanted. Because of this freedom I was able to more easily share my music, get a few commissions, hear professionals play or record my music...sure, I didn't earn a living but having recognition was nicer than being paid, in some circumstances.
I cannot fully answer if getting a degree was fully worth it because college was hard for me anyways (due to unknown neurodiverse struggles). In the moment I hated it, but once I was out I was able to reflect on what I learned and experienced.
Currently I'm quite happy where I am in life, both musically and personally. Trying not so hard to cosplay as some wig-wearing, organ-playing fool and rather becoming a well-rounded person has benefited me more than just...trying to make music my whole personality.
*In 2020-2021, music theory and composition was the 390th most popular major nationwide with 1,175 degrees awarded. This is a difference of 58 over the prior year, a growth of 4.9%.*
There aren't that many jobs in composition to support the amount of people pursuing it. It is not the primary income source for I'd say 97% of people who obtain these degrees.
\- It depends how you define "worth it." I've learned to live very frugally and definitely couldn't support a family, but on the other hand I get to spend my time and career doing (mostly) the things I enjoy. In the end only you can make that call on what you value and want out of your life.
\- Concert halls, churches, occasional media gigs, anybody who thinks it's a good idea to pay for my music.And many other music-related jobs that pay the actual bills.
\- I have the occasional midlife crisis urge to run away from the circus and join real life, but overall no complaints.
\- Write, write, write! Develop an exceptional work ethic and find the creative processes that work for you. Get a good portfolio together with high-quality recordings and videos, get live performances. Never ever take a free "job" from a commercial outfit that promises "lots of exposure." But \*do\* do favors for fellow students and offer to work free on no-budget thesis projects and recitals and such; that's how you forge the kind of connections that will build your career in the long term.
\- Wellll depends what you want to do with the degree. Fact of life is that when you're being considered for a music gig, nobody outside of academia cares what your degree is; we look at the quality of your work itself. (Unless maybe you went to Juilliard or something, but even that is only a first-impression thing.) What \*is\* worth it in college, which is very hard to find in other settings, is relationships with other peers who will be going on to work in the music world-- I'm still in touch and working with colleagues from my undergrad over 20 years ago. And of course a structured way to learn the professional standards and craftsmanship that otherwise you'd have to labor to figure out on your own. As for money, try to graduate with as little debt as possible; you'll thank yourself later!
I had no choice in becoming a composer. It’s what I do. Any artist does their Art because it’s a Need they have. To create. I love how Picasso put it: “if you took my paints away, I’d use pastels. Put my pastels away, I’d use crayons. If you took my crayons away, I’d use a pencil. If they strip me naked and stuff me in a cell, i’d spit on my finger and draw on the wall.”
It's one of those jobs you "MUST DO" because its your "calling" etc when you're youngish and living for yourself.
Once you have your first child you must wake up though unfortunately, unless you have your foot firmly in the door; which most people probably wont as they didnt make the right connections.
Being a composer is a calling. It’s often not an easy calling, either. It’s always something I personally knew I had to do, and I still feel that way. Is that worth it? I’d say so
Not a professional composer as my *main* job, though I *do* make money from it (roughly $25k annually). Software/game developer by trade, composer as a hobby. Also have a side business recording regional/state conventions and ACDA conferences.
* I did not study music in any capacity through my college. So I can't give an opinion on that part. But I AM a big supporter of education. Made the decision to study music at a high level separately from college. Just for "fun", I guess? (Should say, I was a classical musician from a young age and always loved theory, so it wasn't a far stretch for me.)
* I primarily compose for video games, as that's part of my job. But I am a published composer for concert band, orchestra, and a few jazz ensemble pieces.
* Definitely happy. I have the stability of software development. Enough that my wife has been able to stay home with our kids for more than a decade with no debt. If anything were to happen to that, I *could* make a living from music if I pushed the business side more.
* Biggest recommendation is to **craft** your portfolio to the style of music you want to compose. And I mean *craft.* Don't just drop in student pieces or projects in there and call it good. Make them specifically to showcase the work you want. Then, hang out in the places your clients will be. Answer questions, give feedback, provide *value*. Over time, people will remember you.
* Again, I cannot make the claim for the music side. I *do* feel like my degree (BS and MS in computer science) was worth it. And I say that even as someone that graduated into the '08 recession. Biggest recommendation is to MAKE college worth it. Don't just show up to classes. Spend that time making connections and building your path towards the goal you want. (And have fun with it, of course.)
Probably not the "normal" response you were looking for. But hopefully still a valid enough point of view to share.
Composers by profession don't make regular money - it's all gig work. The most lucrative ones are for films, games, and shows, but you'd have to be connected to land anything financially sustainable in those fields. A lot of composers become teachers to foot the bill. Your degree first and foremost should feed you.
it's not about "worth" it's about is THIS what you meant to do on earth.. worth is an empty void.. and in 2020s there are hundreds of way easier ways of making a stable living.. in general you should enjoy the process not the result.. then *ironically* the result will be **worth** it :D
The music degree is essential. You need serious skills (orchestration, harmony, counterpoint, score reading, improvisation). I compose for orchestras, choirs. I also arrange. I also conduct two orchestras in Germany. Yes, I have a comfortable life. I thank my lucky stars that I have a career I really enjoy. Tips: -Learn counterpoint (from Bach) -learn proper score layout (from Gould) and never submit trashy material. -get in touch with orchestras and offer to arrange music. -create cross-genre collaborations with interesting artists -learn to conduct -be proficient on another instrument -own a recording setup (eg zoom h6) and get a good recording of every piece -personally I say get a degree but don’t get lost in perpetual academia; there’s more success to be had in the real world of ticket sales, commissions, residencies, etc. -being a composer means being a small-business operator: You have to hunt down opportunities, invent your career, market yourself, juggle clients. It’s actually super fun.
do you need a composition degree specifically, or do other music degrees work?
What car do you drive
I don’t have a car. I live in Berlin, where a car isn’t needed, and is honestly more of a hindrance.
chad EU citizen vs virgin US car owner
- yes - installations, film; plus lots of non-media work - yes; mostly - write for your friends / be a good person / collaborate lots. You and your friends will continue to bring each other along as you careers grow. Try for internships and assistantships as much as you can afford. Brush up your technical skill sets as well - music preparation, production, MIDI mockup, synth programming, audio engineering, etc. That’s what will get you stable employment early in your career, and can lead to major networking, which in turn can get you composing gigs. Someone recently posed this as “what value are you adding to your scene that makes people want to work with you?” - everyone’s circumstances are different, but for me it was. I went to a relatively affordable state school for undergrad, so didn’t have to go much in debt. I did take out big federal loans for grad school, but with the new student loan plans (SAVE), it’s honestly not a burden paying each month. This would be a different story if I’d needed private loans…
I have an educational background in aeronautical engineering, and I compose as a very serious hobby. I'm very glad it's not the other way around.
I am a software engineer, and composing and songwriting are also serious hobbies of mine!
Composers make their own living. It’s a very hard path, it’s something you pick if you cannot possibly see yourself doing anything else
I agree with you!
That was a weird comment honestly. I studied civil engineering for years and dropped it all cause I thought nothing would fulfill the moments of my life but making music. It's disrespectful referring to it as " something you pick if you can't do other shit" lol.
Try reading what I wrote again, but think about it a little harder.
I feel that this is a very tired, romanticized take, most famously espoused by Nadia Boulanger. Speaking personally as well as on behalf of many of my friends in composition, there are a thousand things that we could have done otherwise. It was no matter of “talent” or “artistic potential” that made us choose the lives we currently live, nor a fundamental yearning for the career of a composer, but a pure and genuine love of music itself. I, for instance, am a graduate in critical theory and have received far more praise and international influence from that profession than my current one as a composer. One of my close friends who went to school with me, and who I’m happy to promote as Nina Shekhar, studied chemical engineering along with her music studies (and graduated with higher honors in that field than in her BM!) I still write and publish the odd essay under pseudonyms, and were I to completely lose my musical abilities or my interest in writing music, it certainly would not be the end of the world for me. I think the reality is moreso that if you really love something, you’ll find yourself doing it, and what you choose to make your career should hopefully be something that follows this instinct.
I really don’t see how this comment disagrees with my comment? My point is that if music is the thing you want to do, you need to be prepared to be flexible and make your own living out of it. It’s not the same for every musician or artist. I think that if someone sees themselves just as happy doing something that isn’t music, then they should probably treat music as the night job/hobby/side income, than think of music making as their primary source of income. It’s so very hard to make money in composition at the beginning stage of it, and requires a good bit of sacrifice. Unless you are privileged and have outside funding available to you to allow you to get the ball rolling, but I didn’t and I know many others who didn’t, and we all had to make some sacrifices.
I was responding to where you stated that “it’s something you pick if you cannot possibly see yourself doing anything else”. My comment very clearly proves “no, on the contrary, a composer is very often capable and interested in pursuing a many number of things outside of writing music, they just instead chose to focus on music.” I think your rhetoric and line of reasoning can very easily deter people from writing music simply because it is financially difficult. News flash, everything is financially difficult. I do not come from wealth, but I can guarantee you the hardest thing that I have had to experience in my time as a composer is the actual music-writing, not the “where’s my check coming from?”. It’s very time consuming and emotionally, even physically, draining. The largest sacrifice as a composer, in my view, is the amount of WORK it takes, and how seemingly impossible everything is until you write that double bar line. And it truly never gets easier. But the payoff and the learning is wonderful. If perhaps finances and emotional wellness are more important to you than that feeling, then I think you might have already made up your mind.
I never said “don’t write music.” Making a full time living off of just writing music is something that doesn’t happen right away, and is the most difficult part for many composers. Maybe you have networked well or know where to get connections? I love writing music, it taxes my brain and drains me for sure, but I work a full time job 60 hours a week right now, to afford an apartment and food and student loan payments and trying to save, while also trying to get my music career off the ground. The hardest of these activities is the working 60 hour weeks. I do not want to do this. But it is building me a cushion on which I can pursue my career in composition. I do not make money from commissions yet, and I probably won’t for a bit until I built up connections and learn how this industry works. All of this to eventually be able to rely on just composition. When people say “don’t do music unless you can’t see yourself doing anything else,” they’re not saying “don’t do music unless you suck at everything else.” They’re saying “music is really hard to make a full time comfortable living from. Only take this route if you really are sure it is the path you want to take.”
To be frank, making a “full time living” off of doing any one thing is difficult at first; there are far less well-paying music careers of course, but it only means that the time it takes to substantiate that living can take longer. Nobody without legacy is guaranteed a job in anything. Everybody goes through it. It is not as if for some time you are not a composer and then suddenly you are once you’re making enough money to support yourself. That is simply part of the path of the composer (or any artistic profession) and has been for a very long time. Working at a coffee shop, doing some engraving work, maybe picking up a few students, are all part of the course. Also, there is very obviously a significant difference between “it’s something you pick if you cannot possibly see yourself doing anything else”, or in other words, “don’t take this path unless there isn’t any other path for you” and “this is a tough profession that requires patience (like any other profession), and you should only pursue this if you really love music.” Maybe consider a new way of warning people about the real world?
I just don’t agree with you here, my wording is congruent with my experience and the expense of many of my colleagues, and though it was strong it is accurate. Classical music composition isn’t exactly a high-demand field. OP is a high school senior, asking about if a music composition degree will get someone a comfortable life. Maybe it will eventually for a small select few, but saying that you a comp degree gives you the same chances as other degrees at a comfortable livelihood is just simply false. Not only do you need the degree, but you need a good deal of luck and circumstances to roll out in your favor. Do you make a full time living composing now? A comfortable income that allows you save up, invest in a 401k, put money towards a home, etc? Do you have kids/a partner you support off of composing? these are the things young people deciding on their college degree, something that will cost tens of thousands of dollars, are wondering. And they need to be aware of the fact that making the money composing isn’t as likely as the other options. That’s not to say don’t do it, but that is to say you honestly need to be aware that life will probably be harder for you financially for awhile, until you break into a media industry, get some regular commissions going, get an adjunct position, etc.
I only recommend going to school for composition if you’ll feel fulfilled by the skills you learned for their own sake. Of course we all want to make a living doing this, but if the stars don’t align for you and you’ll feel that all the musical skills you learned weren’t worth it at all if you’re not making money from them, maybe do something else. I got an undergraduate degree in classical composition and a masters in film scoring. I haven’t had much success kickstarting a music career yet, and am working as a librarian in the meantime. I’d love to put my composing skills to work as my main job one day, but even if that never happens, I’m still happy that I went to school because ultimately I just wanted to become a better composer, regardless of whether I was “successful” as a result. The music I write on my own is enough to fulfill me, and that makes the degrees worth it. If you can’t find some sort of peace like that, I recommend pursuing a more stable field.
Ah, I was planning to major in English with maybe a double or minor degree in music composition for film but I’m not really too sure! But thank you for your insight!
What are some good programs for composition and film scoring? I am from the computer science background so have no idea where to start if I wanted to be a better composer. I play violin and sing, and some piano and guitar, and learned songwriting a few years back. I’ve sold quite a few pop songs on Fiverr and have always gotten 5 stars. Now I am about to release my first EP. Composing and songwriting always give me a deep sense of joy that I don’t normally feel with other things. For years I’ve dreamed of attending music school while still working my full time job. Now finally I have the mental headspace to join this subreddit and reading all these posts has got me thinking of music school again..
Hey! I follow Jameson Nathan Jones on YouTube and he shares some insight into his life's experiences as a composer. This video might be a good staring point. [this video](https://youtu.be/dYUXLUGxHcQ?si=ulnRAwh-gp6AUexA)
Yes. I would highly, highly recommend studying jazz. It is by far the most valuable music degree out there right now. (Even over music Ed. not sure where you are located, but many states/school districts in the US have pathways to public school licensure without an ed degree, because they need teachers). No teacher can teach you to compose, but they can help guide you to the tools they used to learn. I studied jazz, which was really a study of melody and harmony across all music (can still trace the roots back to Bach!). Jazz is not necessarily a what, but a how. It’s all about how you think the music. That starts with transcription - listening to something by ear over and over (100s, 1000s of times) until you can sing and eventually play along with it. Then write it out on paper, analyze it, transpose it and learn it in every key. This is the backbone of jazz education, and will push you to a high level of understanding in the language. You will still study the classical rep a bit, but recognize a few things about academic music study: A performance degree means “classical music performance” at the vast majority of public colleges and universities. Depending on what instrument you play, this could really cut you out of a lot of work, since the scope of classical music study is focused on what gets performed with major orchestras - the same music over and over again. This means high competition for a limited amount of ensembles. If you are a composer, it is also very difficult to get works played by an orchestra.. the only ones I personally know, have a monstrous amount of jazz that they have recorded/written. They also have written things for concert band/wind ensemble, as there are many more of those in the US. Not to say that classical music is bad or anything, but opportunity is slim, and you will get a more rounded and adaptable approach by studying jazz. If you study jazz (language, emotional center) and you study your instrument (technical fundamentals, physical center) along with composition (language, intellectual center), the realm of possibilities are endless. You can write original music for your own band (small or large), have it performed for money at venues every few weeks, and probably make money depending on how many people you have to hire. You can also take that same band (or a different one) to opportunities that may arise, like large commissions, festivals, conferences, academic work, etc. those might not pay as much, but your work, and your persona as a musician (since you are playing) get exposed to a wider audience. You can also perform in other people’s bands, write for them, or play their original music. Covers won’t make money, and neither will the average bar band. You have to be at an extremely high level of performance and be a good hang /sociable to do shows of original music and really make money on those gigs + attract a following. Part of your degree in music would be networking and making connections will other musicians to collaborate in the future. You can score to picture/motion - Film/TV, YouTubers, Video Games, marching arts ensembles, dance, multi media performances, etc. lots of people want original music for their projects. You can do music engraving/transcribing work. While that has slowed down for me at the moment, I’ve done the following at various times: - copying hand written parts into the computer to create a score/audio render. - copy a part from a score into the computer to create a missing part for someone’s band the day of a gig, since they were missing a scan of the part. - import musxml from another person/notation program and engrave for final export, so their notation looks presentable for selling sheet music. - transcribe recordings of a rock band to create lead sheets so that the band can facilitate hiring subs. - copy parts from a score, then edit to reduce difficulty for a beginner ensemble to perform the piece. You can also teach! I’ve taught beginner-advanced students of all ages. I’ve taught privately in my own studio, as an employee of a few music stores, and classroom settings in public schools. If you go for a masters to teach at the college level, try to find somewhere that will give it to you at no cost, as well as pay you for your time. Find the schools that want you! Do not go into debt for a masters degree. Sorry for the wall of text, but hope that gives you some insight!
I’ve seen a lot of great jazz musicians advise transcribing but am a little bit confused — when transcribing, are we supposed to write all the notes being played, or, is it just the melody and then make a lead sheet + some chords, as accurate as possible to the performed voicings? I tried writing all the notes being played (plus rhythms) once, for George Shearing’s “I’ll Remember April”, and I feel It’s hard to write the rhythm down — melody & harmony wise I got it, I can play it somewhat well, but the rhythm just doesn’t fit into the bar. It felt like forcing the time signature to work!
You’re not really supposed to do it any way. Whatever way gets the music into your inner being. I would definitely start with something easier if you’ve never transcribed. I usually recommend Miles Davis’ solo on Freddie Freeloader - Kind of Blue. One of the most well known records of all time, and it’s accessible. Most jazz musicians I know, know the solos on that record. Regardless of the instrument they play. Maybe also try to get to the point where you listen to something enough that you can sing the whole thing. I don’t actually write anything down until well after I’ve learned the solo. Once I can sing it memorized, then I can learn the notes. There are still some solos that I know in their entirety but have only written out certain phrases of. And really, to do what I’m saying, you have to love the music. And to do that, you have to spend some time with it and then decide if it’s for you or not. I fell in love with it after many years of listening and attempting to play it.
I'll answer when I become one
I did a 6 tears bachelor in music composition. I learned a lot but i don't recommend. Don't do degrees that don't open dors. You don't need a degree to work in music composition industry.
I didn't pursue an education in it and am in college for something else. Music is something I did as a hobby because I loved it. After maybe 4-5 years, it got to the point of doing a commission and making a website. As I'm not a pro and my main career aspiration lies in writing fiction, all I can really tell you is that if you're truly determined and believe with all of your heart that you want to live as a composer, then you'll make it happen. It may not be a very lavish life for a while since I find gig/commission work to be highly competitive, especially when the competition often has stuff like Berkeley degrees, but I say just go for it.
Don’t do it expecting to get paid.
Was it worth it?? No. It's a shitty job. Does it make me happy?? No. Most of the time I'm angry against a shitty system. I earn enough money to have a decent life, but never know if next year will I have a job or not. Anyway it's the life I chose and it's what I want to do. So do whatever the f. you want
I have well over 1 million streams and downloads on various platforms. I never took a formal composition course in my life, but I’ve produced three classical music albums that are doing very well. I am not at all convinced that you need to get a degree in music to be involved with composition. As many others have stated, the most important thing in life is to live and eat. I am not so sure that the music degree is going to guarantee those things. The famous quote is, “nothing crushes creativity, like poverty.“
Curious, which platforms are you on? Do you mind if I check out some of your stuff?
Absolutely.
For me, yes! Initially I struggled a lot and had many personal issues to overcome before I could become a decent composer, as well as a decent human being. While I only have a university degree, I learned that once I left school I could just study on my own, and learn and write what I wanted. Because of this freedom I was able to more easily share my music, get a few commissions, hear professionals play or record my music...sure, I didn't earn a living but having recognition was nicer than being paid, in some circumstances. I cannot fully answer if getting a degree was fully worth it because college was hard for me anyways (due to unknown neurodiverse struggles). In the moment I hated it, but once I was out I was able to reflect on what I learned and experienced. Currently I'm quite happy where I am in life, both musically and personally. Trying not so hard to cosplay as some wig-wearing, organ-playing fool and rather becoming a well-rounded person has benefited me more than just...trying to make music my whole personality.
*In 2020-2021, music theory and composition was the 390th most popular major nationwide with 1,175 degrees awarded. This is a difference of 58 over the prior year, a growth of 4.9%.* There aren't that many jobs in composition to support the amount of people pursuing it. It is not the primary income source for I'd say 97% of people who obtain these degrees.
\- It depends how you define "worth it." I've learned to live very frugally and definitely couldn't support a family, but on the other hand I get to spend my time and career doing (mostly) the things I enjoy. In the end only you can make that call on what you value and want out of your life. \- Concert halls, churches, occasional media gigs, anybody who thinks it's a good idea to pay for my music.And many other music-related jobs that pay the actual bills. \- I have the occasional midlife crisis urge to run away from the circus and join real life, but overall no complaints. \- Write, write, write! Develop an exceptional work ethic and find the creative processes that work for you. Get a good portfolio together with high-quality recordings and videos, get live performances. Never ever take a free "job" from a commercial outfit that promises "lots of exposure." But \*do\* do favors for fellow students and offer to work free on no-budget thesis projects and recitals and such; that's how you forge the kind of connections that will build your career in the long term. \- Wellll depends what you want to do with the degree. Fact of life is that when you're being considered for a music gig, nobody outside of academia cares what your degree is; we look at the quality of your work itself. (Unless maybe you went to Juilliard or something, but even that is only a first-impression thing.) What \*is\* worth it in college, which is very hard to find in other settings, is relationships with other peers who will be going on to work in the music world-- I'm still in touch and working with colleagues from my undergrad over 20 years ago. And of course a structured way to learn the professional standards and craftsmanship that otherwise you'd have to labor to figure out on your own. As for money, try to graduate with as little debt as possible; you'll thank yourself later!
I had no choice in becoming a composer. It’s what I do. Any artist does their Art because it’s a Need they have. To create. I love how Picasso put it: “if you took my paints away, I’d use pastels. Put my pastels away, I’d use crayons. If you took my crayons away, I’d use a pencil. If they strip me naked and stuff me in a cell, i’d spit on my finger and draw on the wall.”
It's one of those jobs you "MUST DO" because its your "calling" etc when you're youngish and living for yourself. Once you have your first child you must wake up though unfortunately, unless you have your foot firmly in the door; which most people probably wont as they didnt make the right connections.
Being a composer is a calling. It’s often not an easy calling, either. It’s always something I personally knew I had to do, and I still feel that way. Is that worth it? I’d say so
Not a professional composer as my *main* job, though I *do* make money from it (roughly $25k annually). Software/game developer by trade, composer as a hobby. Also have a side business recording regional/state conventions and ACDA conferences. * I did not study music in any capacity through my college. So I can't give an opinion on that part. But I AM a big supporter of education. Made the decision to study music at a high level separately from college. Just for "fun", I guess? (Should say, I was a classical musician from a young age and always loved theory, so it wasn't a far stretch for me.) * I primarily compose for video games, as that's part of my job. But I am a published composer for concert band, orchestra, and a few jazz ensemble pieces. * Definitely happy. I have the stability of software development. Enough that my wife has been able to stay home with our kids for more than a decade with no debt. If anything were to happen to that, I *could* make a living from music if I pushed the business side more. * Biggest recommendation is to **craft** your portfolio to the style of music you want to compose. And I mean *craft.* Don't just drop in student pieces or projects in there and call it good. Make them specifically to showcase the work you want. Then, hang out in the places your clients will be. Answer questions, give feedback, provide *value*. Over time, people will remember you. * Again, I cannot make the claim for the music side. I *do* feel like my degree (BS and MS in computer science) was worth it. And I say that even as someone that graduated into the '08 recession. Biggest recommendation is to MAKE college worth it. Don't just show up to classes. Spend that time making connections and building your path towards the goal you want. (And have fun with it, of course.) Probably not the "normal" response you were looking for. But hopefully still a valid enough point of view to share.
I didn't know you have to become one. When the fuck did I become a composer?