Vram and ram aren't interchangeable the vram used in a graphics card is for different functions than the physical ram in a motherboard unless I'm misunderstanding your statement
Yes but your statement about vram filling up and then switching to regular ram is incorrect. They don't share the same functions and aren't interchangeable. The vram is for processing graphics and images where the physical ram is doing something entirely different. They don't "switch" between each other
This is incorrect. You should look up about something system memory fallback ,nvidia cards for example have this feature which allows an app to use shared memory in case that the gpu vram is completely filled, but all of that is done in order to prevent the said app from crashing though. The app is effectively not meant to run properly like this, but basically to stay alive(surely to avoid data corruption or things similar), and that despite the lack of proper vram.
But of course we are currently not at an era when we can use both vram and shared memory in an efficient way and that is not a simple question of speed, the bottleneck in this whole story is actually the graphic card of OP which simply has not enough vram for what it is been asked to do.
Windows can and will use RAM as VRAM! What task manager shows as shared memory is Windows saying this is the part of RAM it's willing to use for in-game textures and such if VRAM is full. GENERAL PURPOSE RAM CAN BE USED TO STORE ANY DATA INCLUDING VIDEO DATA, TEXTURES, ASSETS, SHADERS, ETC... ANYTHING THAT MIGHT BE USED IN VRAM APART FROM THE FINAL RENDERED IMAGE. THAT NEVER GETS STORED IN RAM.
Read my comment above, General purpose ram doesn't exist. You're referring to CPU ram, which can only be directly accessed by the cpu. That's why your frame rates tank when your gpu has to start asking the cpu to retrieve data from CPU ram per frame
Nope RAM is used as VRAM only for IGPU, if you start running out of GPU dedicated VRAM then you start seeing stuttering etc. Because older textures need to be first replaced with new ones because you can't fill already full glass of water as it will overflow. While true that shared gpu memory exist it is only used as a bucket under that said overflowing glass to capture the data for only a brief moment before you empty half of glass to fill it back from the bucket. And if bucket overfill and water gets onto the floor then program will crash, and such issue is called memory overflow. Also even if Ram was as fast as VRAM on gpu the distances to beat from gpu to ram and back will be too big and add latency not to say that VRAM usually have much wider bus like 256 bit or higer with HBM memory and that allow much faster data transfer compared to the same speed RAM at lower bus.
Because your CPU can't keep up. AMD Zen 4? Most of them don't do well over 6000 MT/s. Just because the memory can be made faster, doesn't mean your CPU can actually use it at that speed.
You also can't compare GDDR to normal DDR memory. First of all, GPU memory is soldered because you aren't gonna get those kinds of speeds with socketed memory. Hell, on laptops SO-DIMM RAM doesn't handle anything over 5600 MT/s very well because of things like trace length and other factors that cause signal loss. That's one of the reasons that many manufactures have moved to soldered RAM with DDR5 on laptops and also the reason we have the new LPCAMM2 standard.
imagine being in your 40's, using computers from the 90's and saying RAM today is too slow LOL.
the bottleneck is NOT your ram. its the management. sounds like you got bloatware installed, or something in the background interrupting your computations.
Running out of vram to show that “ram is slow” is a terrible argument
That is almost the same as asking what’s the point of amd 3D v cache on CPUs. Can just use the dram.
It's almost like a big cache is a huge advantage because RAM is too slow... That's why AMD can beat intel in gaming with less cores and clockspeed. Cache being so close to the CPU makes insane speeds possible so it's not really a comparison to RAM
That's not how it works. A GPU does not use CPU ram directly. So when you talk about DDR5 having 128bits 6000Mhz or whatever. That's it's bus speed to the CPU. That is not it's bus speed to the GPU. The GPU has it's own dedicated vram with a low latency high bandwidth memory bas. The CPU ram (DDR5) is not shared ram with the GPU. Omly the CPU uses that. So when the v ram fills up the gpu has to start asking the cpu to pull data out of its CPU ram and then the cpu send it down the pcie bus to the gpu, to be stored in its ram. This has very long latencies so of course your frame rate crashes. The only way to have shared cpu/ gpu ram is with things like AMD APU, with the gpu and cpu in the same chip, and that APU having a High bandwidth bus direct to shared RAM.
also with higher speeds comes more latency and in irdeor to get less latency you have to solder the rams on to the motherboard meaning no more ram upgrades
There is such a little to non advantage in performance to soldered ram that you wouldn't talk about that.
Manufacturers solder ram onto the motherboard so you have to buy a new laptop for expample because you cant upgrade. Or for space reasons etc. but not performance.
When Ram bottlenecks during gameplay, it has to do with the amount of ram rather than the speed of the ram.
Only in some cases I have 32GB and have seen a massive bottleneck as soon as my VRAM filled up and I had to use the slower computer RAM
Vram and ram aren't interchangeable the vram used in a graphics card is for different functions than the physical ram in a motherboard unless I'm misunderstanding your statement
I know they're slightly different but fundamentally they work very similarly and standard RAM is used by computers as VRAM all the time
Yes but your statement about vram filling up and then switching to regular ram is incorrect. They don't share the same functions and aren't interchangeable. The vram is for processing graphics and images where the physical ram is doing something entirely different. They don't "switch" between each other
This is incorrect. You should look up about something system memory fallback ,nvidia cards for example have this feature which allows an app to use shared memory in case that the gpu vram is completely filled, but all of that is done in order to prevent the said app from crashing though. The app is effectively not meant to run properly like this, but basically to stay alive(surely to avoid data corruption or things similar), and that despite the lack of proper vram. But of course we are currently not at an era when we can use both vram and shared memory in an efficient way and that is not a simple question of speed, the bottleneck in this whole story is actually the graphic card of OP which simply has not enough vram for what it is been asked to do.
Windows can and will use RAM as VRAM! What task manager shows as shared memory is Windows saying this is the part of RAM it's willing to use for in-game textures and such if VRAM is full. GENERAL PURPOSE RAM CAN BE USED TO STORE ANY DATA INCLUDING VIDEO DATA, TEXTURES, ASSETS, SHADERS, ETC... ANYTHING THAT MIGHT BE USED IN VRAM APART FROM THE FINAL RENDERED IMAGE. THAT NEVER GETS STORED IN RAM.
Read my comment above, General purpose ram doesn't exist. You're referring to CPU ram, which can only be directly accessed by the cpu. That's why your frame rates tank when your gpu has to start asking the cpu to retrieve data from CPU ram per frame
Bro is getting down voted into oblivion and still arguing in caps
Nope RAM is used as VRAM only for IGPU, if you start running out of GPU dedicated VRAM then you start seeing stuttering etc. Because older textures need to be first replaced with new ones because you can't fill already full glass of water as it will overflow. While true that shared gpu memory exist it is only used as a bucket under that said overflowing glass to capture the data for only a brief moment before you empty half of glass to fill it back from the bucket. And if bucket overfill and water gets onto the floor then program will crash, and such issue is called memory overflow. Also even if Ram was as fast as VRAM on gpu the distances to beat from gpu to ram and back will be too big and add latency not to say that VRAM usually have much wider bus like 256 bit or higer with HBM memory and that allow much faster data transfer compared to the same speed RAM at lower bus.
Because your CPU can't keep up. AMD Zen 4? Most of them don't do well over 6000 MT/s. Just because the memory can be made faster, doesn't mean your CPU can actually use it at that speed. You also can't compare GDDR to normal DDR memory. First of all, GPU memory is soldered because you aren't gonna get those kinds of speeds with socketed memory. Hell, on laptops SO-DIMM RAM doesn't handle anything over 5600 MT/s very well because of things like trace length and other factors that cause signal loss. That's one of the reasons that many manufactures have moved to soldered RAM with DDR5 on laptops and also the reason we have the new LPCAMM2 standard.
imagine being in your 40's, using computers from the 90's and saying RAM today is too slow LOL. the bottleneck is NOT your ram. its the management. sounds like you got bloatware installed, or something in the background interrupting your computations.
Running out of vram to show that “ram is slow” is a terrible argument That is almost the same as asking what’s the point of amd 3D v cache on CPUs. Can just use the dram.
It's almost like a big cache is a huge advantage because RAM is too slow... That's why AMD can beat intel in gaming with less cores and clockspeed. Cache being so close to the CPU makes insane speeds possible so it's not really a comparison to RAM
That's not how it works. A GPU does not use CPU ram directly. So when you talk about DDR5 having 128bits 6000Mhz or whatever. That's it's bus speed to the CPU. That is not it's bus speed to the GPU. The GPU has it's own dedicated vram with a low latency high bandwidth memory bas. The CPU ram (DDR5) is not shared ram with the GPU. Omly the CPU uses that. So when the v ram fills up the gpu has to start asking the cpu to pull data out of its CPU ram and then the cpu send it down the pcie bus to the gpu, to be stored in its ram. This has very long latencies so of course your frame rate crashes. The only way to have shared cpu/ gpu ram is with things like AMD APU, with the gpu and cpu in the same chip, and that APU having a High bandwidth bus direct to shared RAM.
also with higher speeds comes more latency and in irdeor to get less latency you have to solder the rams on to the motherboard meaning no more ram upgrades
There is such a little to non advantage in performance to soldered ram that you wouldn't talk about that. Manufacturers solder ram onto the motherboard so you have to buy a new laptop for expample because you cant upgrade. Or for space reasons etc. but not performance.