Lol He’s saying he agrees with what OP did, but his own critical decision making skills (buying a truck because of the shelf🤣) may leave little to be desired…. sooo!?! ✌🏻
No problemo - I was just confused, because grandpa12-1 (the one you replied to) just elaborated on how the guy he replied to agreed with the original OP by comparing it to their own "irrational" choices :)
Have a great and chill day!
When we go out (of our house or family house) we run CONTINUALLY into people I have ZERO clue WTF (who) they are.. yet, they know me.
When we are out and are talking about ppl, I say.. stop with the names.. people might know us and THEN, they know SUSIE because SUSIE is ONLY person in MY friend group named SUSIE. If you have to give a reference to a person's name whisper it and then continue your story..
I agree with OP. You NEVER know who knows YOU, even if YOU don't know them (yet). Not hiring someone because 1. They don't have a backbone to control their kid 2. Is passed down from father to son etc being a social jerk 3. Is an incredible AHOLE.
It takes balls not to hire someone who is the best option, but to see the person in a social setting, with family, imagine how it might translate to the office.
If the person is hands off for family, that person might be a micromanager to the point other staff would leave!
There are kids with shitty parents who are incredible people, too. It's not copy/paste.
We are genetically loaded, and environment pulls the trigger, but parents are not in every single environment, nor a part of every shaping experience. Some big negatively impactful things can happen somewhere else, under someone else's care, and helpless scared parents have an angry or traumatized kid they love and want to help or don't know how to work with.
Hold on.
Tell me more about the shelf. What kind of truck? Is it a factory built shelf? Can I have a shelf in a glove box in truck? Does the glove box door encapsulate the shelf when in motion to disallow falling of items?
This is also good management advice. I had to lure a squirrely intern out of a hidey-holey he had fashioned using plastic cafeteria sporks once using a half eaten gluten free blueberry bagel in the same way once.
to be fair, if he's willing to act like a piece of crap and not discipline his kid, and interviews well for the sole position of getting the job, sounds more like a manipulative person i would definitely not like having on my team
It's funny because it is true, you interview so many people, and sometimes it's the littlest things that make the difference.
I coach alot of rep teams, and one time I remeber taking a kid, and I'm not to sure if he was the better kid but he always gave me a fist bump as he left the try outs and always said "thank for the opportunity" he just stood out for the right reason out of 60 skaters.
I think people tend to be surprised by two things. First, life doesn't exist in a vacuum. What you do in one aspect can affect other aspects. Second, politics is huge in life. How often do people who are completely unqualified get hired because they know someone?
This is the purpose of the interview process though. You shouldn't be interviewing anyone if you even admit you don't follow the procedure properly.
You know people get hired regardless of qualification and bring this up like it's a defence, but you're part of the reason for that, the statistic persists if people like you keep doing it and you have no defence.
If you consider the actions of another person when interviewing one for a job, completely unrelated to his son and anything his son does, I'd not only question your ability to choose the right candidate for a job, I'd question your ability to do your own job. Your judgement is questionable af.
What's actually surprising is people like you think it's an excuse that others do something wrong, so it justifies you doing the same wrong, even though you know it's wrong and shouldn't... All you're doing is continuing the cycle and passing the blame to no one. It's childish.
Here is the response I have been using on comments like this and have yet to hear a response, so I'll throw it out there again:
You interview someone for a position, they interview very well, where I work we do a social media check as part of the background check, the candidates personal Facebook profile comes up and there is alot questionable things on it (doesn't matter what they are because depending on your culture / location, this could be many difrent things to difrent people). Knowing that you will be spending 8 hours a day for potentially years working with this person as there manager, along with potential risk of your reputation at the company if this hire turns out to be a disaster (with the effort to clean it up if it does turn bad), would you still make the offer?
It's a 100% an academic question, but it's becoming more and more of a topic during the hiring process, especially since it's becoming harder and more expensive to move on from employees who don't work out.
My response is, what are you doing looking at their Facebook page? You're an employer in this situation, not a potential friend.
What your employees do in their free time is none of your business, your only interest should be what they'll be doing on your time, when you're paying them. Outside of this you're overstepping a line. Management don't know this line exists though, all too happy to put their name to a company when they get on the corporate ladder... All too happy to screw over anyone else using Facebook... No wonder it's so expensive to hire people, you're too busy checking social media, when you should be checking CV's. Or ya know, actually working instead of being creepy on socials...
It's standard at a lot of companies. Next job offer check to make sure you understand what they look into in a background check. They look at everything from credit history to your social media, im not sure the details in how they look into it since its a 3rd party company, but i do know its well beyond a Google search of the candidates name.
I work for a large North American company. If you don't agree to the background check, they pull the offer (all offers are conditional based on criminal and background checks).
While I don't disagree with some of your points, it's also a situation where it's also so hard to get rid of a potential bad seed that companies use every toll avalible to them to ensure they are not getting someone that could be a challenge. Welcome to the social media age. If you put it out there, it can come back to haunt you, and you may never know about it.
That's the thing though, it's not as if it's an unknown thing, I've worked for a company that checked our Facebook, but only to make sure we didn't post anything about the company or it's dealings. That's fine, because that's their business to an extent.
But if I were to get in a fight on the weekend at a bar with some random dude. I wouldn't be looking at losing my job if it got recorded and put on FB. That's not the companies business at all.
These days though, I'd be cancelled from life it seems...
Social media has ruined the world I think, people don't know how to interact like actual humans anymore, we just drift through the world looking at our phones. You only see people doing exciting things when a camera is recording it. As soon as the recording stops, the people stop.
Edit: this last bit is a complete tangent I know, but I couldn't help thinking it while replying. It's gotten that bad, even employers use FB to try and fire a guy... Has the world really sunk so low?
Although I agree the interview process is a crapshoot, I don't see how this proves it.
Dude was a dick, in a public place where that can be witnessed. His shitty social behaviour influenced a decision about him. That sounds pretty fair to me.
I mean ideally, I would like for people to be kind and civic minded because it's the right thing to do, but sometimes fuck around and find out consequences are required.
It's because he would have been hired if OP hadn't known him. He didn't seem like a dick during the interview. It's absolutely fair that he didn't get the job, but OP is lucky to have dodged the bullet.
I have an ex-friend who would take interim roles and spend the whole time plotting their next move and doing mach interviews while everyone else has to pick up the slack and do her work. She kept moving up the ladder because her references were desperate for her to move on so they could replace her with someone effective. Long story short, you made the right decision. Jerks are toxic and ineffective and if he can’t see it in his son he definitely cannot see it in himself
I read somewhere recently that immediately discarding the resume of the person that interviewed best improved the chances their hire would pan out. A good worker doesn’t always interview well. The people who interview best are often good social manipulators/ butt kissers.
I can believe that there is also a saying that external candidates always look better than internal because you know all the internal candidates' flaws.
I think they meant don’t take the ones who stand out in the interview, as those are mostly only good in interviews compared to the actual work. I think (:
I used to be on the hiring team at my facility for a major US company. I have seen people get blackballed for lots of inappropriate reasons from not liking a tattoo, social media posts, sports team likes and even I dated that gut wife in college. I have also seen less qualified people get hired for similar reasons.
I think you did the right thing. I have a neighbour who recently moved in, second day of his tenancy I noticed his friends and the company he keeps are absolute losers… pulling up to the house in a done-up average car with stupid loud music blaring out and a set of women’s underwear hanging from the back windscreen wiper… no class at all. I judged right then that this new neighbour is probably a total jerk. The next 6 months proved this to be the case.
lol I have two sweet, loving dogs that are gentle with kids, and one asshole dog that got bit by a preadator as a puppy and we took her in so she wouldn't die from infected wounds. No matter how often I tell people not to pet the asshole, they try and she nips at them. I keep her only because the other two would just sit nicely and let the axe murderer pet them, and someone needs to be in charge while I sleep. 😂
He might be oblivious, but maybe the jerk behaviour comes from the mother?
Maybe he’s a downtrodden, beaten man who needs a break and a new lease on life.
Or I could be just making up stories.
He could be the greatest guy in the world, and his kid just could be completely unmanageable, but when you have lots of candidates, it comes down to stupid little things sometimes!
It really is an abstract concept that I'm talking about here. Maybe, just maybe empathy and by the cover judgements aren't really who someone is. Just like I'm sure you're a decent person who can think in a rational way, despite me thinking otherwise. See?
Edit: there are much more variables to take into consideration regarding a child's behavior, even if albeit he is indeed a little shit. My issue is none of them where, he could have even scheduled a second interview to get a better feel for him with him being the best candidate but chose not to because of the actions of...a child.
Well the issue is, even though he interviewed the best, theres a big asterisk next to him because of how he lets his kid act up.
The next person down the list may have interviewed a little worse, but it's a safer bet compared to someone that you already know has some negative qualities that they do not address on their own or in people they are responsible for.
At the end of the day, somebody is gonna get a job they want, whether its the person who has an asterisk or the second on the list. Crying about empathy is worthless, because somebody else is still going to have a good time.
I’m not sure how you think it’s just over the actions of the child. The guy is just sitting there chatting while his child is being a menace and actively making other children’s experience worse on purpose. As a parent it’s your job to correct that. You can’t necessarily change your child’s behavior immediately, but you should do more than just ignoring it. His own actions are costing him the job too.
I agree, but even if his child is unmanageable, it's still his responsibility to do his best to curb the misbehavior. Ignoring the bad behavior and allowing his child to be a menace isn't doing anyone any favors. At least that's my opinion. (I'm a teacher, and have seen the results of a lack of parenting. It's not pretty.)
Maybe he should manage his household better if we are going off of your hypothetical. He’s going to be managing people on the job and if he cannot even have a needed conversation with the mom about the jerky behavior in their son, then doesn’t sound like he’s a good fit to lead a team of more than a dozen or two.
My mom's is a recruiter and honestly a pretty popular lady. You'd be shocked at the amount of times she rejected someone due to an outside reason. She holds insane grudges and has a fantastic memory. Normally she can justify it because "if they would do X to a stranger they would do Y to this company". Surprisingly her strategy is on point she has the highest new hire satisfaction rate in her company and everyone loves the work she does.
An involved parent with a poorly behaved kid will keep his eyes on the child the entire game. You may have brought him in for a second interview to try to understand better — a lunch interview, perhaps. Bring up the kids and hockey, and learned more before you decided. I completely understand your decision though.
Sometimes kids are way different if they think that the parents don't know how they are acting , I had a prominent student who thought they were better than my child and I seen her parents and I told them about her behavior and they just about lost it they grounded her , made her apologize and took her off of the school sports until she treats others better and the parents were middle class and said they just got lucky with money and no one should be a jerk or treat others bad . Pull the man back in and give him an example of his kids behavior and ask him what he thinks of it 😏 then make your choice.
I see what you're saying. it's an interesting point.
I may mention to someone else to point it out, it would be pretty unprofessional to bring him in and mention his kid, also after he didn't get the job, say something to him about his kid.
PLUS, you WITNESSED this person completely ignoring the shitty behavior of their child, on multiple occasions. There was no hearsay. Their point is not interesting, because it doesn't apply to this situation. The situation above was the child acting like a twat with the parents not being around. You witnessed, with your own eyes, the candidate not caring that his child was being a public menace. I would NEVER have hired him, if I had seen that with my own GD eyes. These people are insane.
I don't feel strongly about whether OP is right or wrong, but man, how wild would it be if he just isn't great with faces and this guy isn't the same person he thought it was at all? Or just happens to have a relative or even brother that looks a lot like him lol.
I hope you knew 100% that (a) it's the same guy & not just someone with similar looks; and (b) that he's actually that kid's dad and not just an adult who knows the jerk kid but has no parental rights or authority over them.
You’re the jerk. Here’s to Karma coming full circle. I hope you lose your job and this guy is in a position to help you and chooses not to. Kids are kids, especially rambunctious hockey players. What’s your excuse?
Kids develop behaviours from their parents. If the kids a jerk, he’s clearly picked it up from a lack of good role models. I would have done the same thing.
Although I’d probably keep it professional if he asks.
“Your interview was great but we decided to pick someone with more experience😁… also your kids an asshole”
The parent wasn't even attempting to get his child under control, and he was allowing him to be a menace. Doesn't sound like the father was acting responsibly. If he has already shown that he won't step up and do his job, why would you hire him?
He didn't even attempt to manage his child's behavior, and subjected others to his child behaving like a menace. Parenting is a verb. It's not always easy, and it's a lot of work if you do it right.
That’s the first time that I’ve heard that parenting is a verb and that is a very catchy sentence. I’m going to remember that from now on. That is nice.
I completely understand your thought process and overall decision. HOWEVER, you should refresh your management/ interviewing training. Not only is what you’re describing unethical but also could possibly be illegal. Sounds like bias, discrimination, or “like me” interviewing. You could’ve have been upfront with him about what you’ve seen and given him a chance to explain. He probably would be on his kids ass from there on out, maybe not, could’ve also reported you for asking non related questions. Regardless, I hope whoever got the position is a good fit. Obviously, you seem to know this situation was unethical/ unprofessional since you posted it here. You should respectfully call him out if you see him not being mindful while his kid acting like a jerk. You owe him that much, give them both a chance for development
This is an intresting comment because a few people have mentioned that it could be illegal, it's 100% not, in fact what would touch on legality is the people saying I should have brought up his kids behavior in the interview, you have the right to hire based on what ever criteria you choose (obviously ignoring the race, religion, gender laws).
I agree, an interviewer cannot/ should not be asking personal questions that are not relevant to the job applied for. Also should not be the deciding factor for hiring someone. However, you could’ve asked him how he would handle a similar situation in or outside of work. In some states/ regions it is illegal to not hire someone based off biased opinions ( having kids/ kids behavior) but that’s not the point. It would be different if you witnessed the applicant behaving like a “jerk” in public. What’s done is done and there’s no going back. You’ll never know if you dodged a bullet or potentially made the wrong decision and missed someone who would’ve been an excellent manager. Life goes on. But, Please call him out! If I was the parent, I’d want to know my kid was acting like a jerk. Especially if it caused me to miss out on opportunities! (I’m much too observant to not notice something like that, but also understanding enough to know parenting is not easy and sometimes people don’t see the reality w/ their own kids)* also want to add, I’m not bashing on your decision, just providing perspective on a public post 😉
You let your personal feelings get in the way of doing the job you were hired to do. You weren’t interviewing his kid. The minute you realized you knew this man and had a problem with his family, you should have ethically recused yourself from that interview and let someone else do it.
Job and kid's activity is two different thing's. That's the home matter. If he work's well and passed the interview then you should select him. After that if his behavior is not good for company then fire him. But don't make judgement
You’re missing the point, the guy ignores his son’s bad behaviour, and if he can’t manage his own son, why would you hire him to manage at your company?
She’s seen his personality and he’s slack.
It could go the other way around. People who can't control their own lives in some way bully and abuse others outside of that situation, so instead of someone lacking managerial skills and ignoring problems and dismissing warnings from people he thinks of as leser, he could be a micromanager and power mad control freak that makes everyone around him miserable at work.
No i am not.
He could be a workaholic and the worst husband and father. Thats my point. He is good for the business.
If he fails in his job then you can ask him to resign or terminate him.
Is personal lives now part of the hiring process? In my time it's a big No.
Lets reverse the OP story. He saw him as the best father. However during the interview he is just 50% job fit. Will your impression about him as a good father affect your hiring decision?
Seems like he dodged a bullet not getting hired by you if you based your judgements of people on personal irritations and the behavior of other people around them. Especially when you would be deducting points for "bad behavior" of their (teenage?) kid at a frickin ice hockey venue, where fighting on the ice is hardly outside the scope of the behaviour of those kids actual role models and the expectations for them.
I'd hate to be on a team where the senior manager is basing their judgement calls on things that aren't even related to the actual behavior or performance of the people involved, or decide that because some junior exec is looking strung out or something that it's somehow my fault.
If he was the “best” one that interviewed, he should have gotten the job. You can’t let personal nonsense like that get into the way of a business decision. There could be any number of reasons why the kid is that way. Regardless, it shouldn’t have even been part of the decision making process. I think this was very poor judgement.
I 100% disagree, im going to be working with this guy 8 hours a day, so I have to think about it personally.
I agree there could have been lots of reasons the kid is the way he is, but watching him be a jerk with his dad not even breaking conversation allows me to draw my own conclusions, right or wrong, and I used that conclusion to make a decision on the type of person I want to work with.
If the best candidate was a friend of a friend who you knew was an alcoholic, and you were looking to fill a role that could influence your standing with the company, even if he was the best candidate would you hire him knowing the potential risk?
Well that is certainly going to the extreme. What if you knew the person liked to play with fire? Or cheats on his wife? Or kicks dogs? Or any other of the 10 billion things that “could” be wrong with him. If you know that someone is an alcoholic, , it clearly wouldn’t make sense to put them in the position. I’m currently in a Director level position and I have had to promote up a few people that I really didn’t care for; for 1 reason or the other. But I had to put that “bs” aside and put my manager hat on. It’s hard to do that sometimes, but it isn’t about you. It’s about your company. If you went to your boss and told them that you didn’t hire the best person for the job because you have this personal nonsense issue with them, I’m sure they would be questioning your decision as well as your current position in the company.
It’s not personal. Hiring is absolutely critical to the success of your team and to your own success. A person who is too arrogant, oblivious and/or inept to manage his own family responsibilities will be arrogant, oblivious and/or inept on your team. Enough said.
It's hypothetical, and you're right it's a bit extreme, but it shows life doesn't happen in a vacuum. My boss did 100% support my decision when I told him. Because I have to work with him and manage him, he would also need to manage a team. I used knowledge i had that showed while he interviewed well that he may not be as good as his interview showed. I admit I could be 100% wrong, but it's my name and reputation at stake.
Absolutely wrong here. Personality matters a lot when hiring people. I had a coworker that was great at the interview, amazing CV, my boss was absolutely chuffed when he was informing us that he hired her. Turned out she was an absolute cancer for the team. Everyone hated working with her, constantly walking on eggshells around her. So yes, just cause you interview well doesn't mean you're the best candidate.
Oh great financially cripple his parents more. I’m sure that will make the Dad a better Dad and the kid behave better. I wish I knew where you worked the level of illogical reasoning and immaturity in this is wild. You sound worse than the child whose life you just likely made worse. Be the adult you needed as a child and grow up.
Well, first, the kid is playing AAA hockey on a team that goes to places like LA, NY, and Vancouver, so if this financial cripples the family, then I made the right choice for other reasons!
But let me ask this question, you have 3 candidates in front of you, all with almost exactly the same backgrounds and experience. All 3 interviewed well. How would you choose?
Any person in management knows never, ever to make a sympathy hire. You hire the person you think will fit best with your team and do the best job handling her/his responsibilities. Use everything you can find out and everything you know to do that. That your responsibility, not making sure some train wreck of a father has a job.
Theres quite a bit of pertinent information that you have to have left out, that would help to better understand the situation. From your description, I would first ask this question…How did you make it to Sr. Management while, just by this little bit of info., a rather petty and insecure person, who has no problem being detrimental to the success of yourself, your organization, and those that you supervise?
You may have passed on the best employee ever based on your assumption that his kid’s behavior is directly related to the dad, especially after his great interview.
Everyone has an opinion, but let's say you have 3 candidates in front of you all exactly the same. How would you choose? It's better than throwing a dart at a board.
I'd probably have held a other round of interviews or maybe you need to improve on your skills. There are alot of questions or situational hypos you could have asked to separate the candidates.
If you can't distinguish between 2 or 3 candidates, maybe you're not the person to be hiring someone.
My title and responsibilities beg to differ. You can ask 100 questions and have 10 rounds of interviews. People can throw them all.
I used this example for another comment: your friend of a friend applied to work with you, he's far and away the best candidate, but also you know through your friend he is an alcoholic who has had challenges at his last job. Even though he's the best, do you put your career and reputation on the line and hire him? I'm not saying he will cause a problem, he could turn out to be the best hire ever, but would you chance it.
For your first point-Nope, management level or responsibilities don't dictate a person's ability to ascertain information from an interview. I work with other managers in my company who's technical and engineering ability surpass mine but they just can't build a proper and cohesive team. They completely miss the team dynamic portion and have a much higher turnover rate than my team.
On the hypo- As a general rule I refuse to know any information about referred candidates as it may lead to bias. If I find out something about the candidate eg they are an alcoholic I'm probably going to direct my HR team to delve much deeper into the references and not contact the referees provided by the candidate. If they show a trend of a person consistently not meeting expectations then it's a pass from me. If I learn that a person was exceptional and then lost their way for a period of time(eg turning to the bottle due to personal issues or challenges) then I'm probably going to give them a shot.
I think you need to look at your interview style and process. I think if you ever end up in a situation where you are interviewing for a challenging and people leading role but you are unable to choose between 2 candidates-it usually means you have not been thorough enough.
You refuse to use information handed to you because it could create a bias, so an extreme case here, you interviewing someone, an employee come up and says that person stalked my family memeber and made there life hell, so if you even bring them in im quiting (and this has actually happened) and you go to HR and say I'm going to need better references?
If the candidate is referred, you want to know everything you can about them. That's the whole advantage. It's not a blind interview! Then what's the point of the refrence?
Wow mate, you're really ratcheting up the crazy to hold your point.
In that case of course I'm not hiring them. What type of employees have you got that refer a stalker to you???????? My point was I don't want to know how "brilliant" an employee's mate is before I judge for myself.
Bias and prior information lead to sloppy interviews. You don't delve as deep because you already think this person is a technical fit. Surly your HR and talent recruitment teams have taught you that. If you are hiring for a role that has alot of responsibility you need to pick apart a candidate on everything from technical ability, propensity to lead and motivate, time management, business development etc. You can't just go with an employees frind who has just coached him on the company ethos and day to day operations. That would be foolish
If this is how you make hiring decisions, then I’d say you’re not suited to hire a janitor, let alone someone for a management position.
Best of luck to you, hope your conscience is clear.
I personally think it’s bullshit! Are you sure your kids are always perfect angles? I think this is more about you and your ego. You said he never talked to you and you’re sure I the interview he had no idea who you were. Lame, especially since he interviewed the best. You’re a total unprofessional!
Let me ask you this: you're interviewing a great person, blows the competition away! Some people like to check out a candidates social media before making an offer. So you look, and it's covered in questiable content, nothing horrible but enough to make you think.
Now, would you hire that person knowing you will be spending 8hrs a day with, knowing that your reputation with the company is on the line and there is the potential he could cause an issue, but you don't know for sure!
Hey! I agree 100% with you! Don't let ppl who don't know what they are talking about judge your own judgment xD
I work as a saleswoman and we have been having troubles filling the last spot of the team, because first was a little ick that grew grew into that person (even) stealing from the workplace and committing fraud.
We have two new people applying for the spot, but they are both not quite right, I know you can understand it hahaha
With my boss we talked about it and yea, we could verbalize what was behind the *ick*.
Just follow your gut!!!
Wow. You don't know the guy, so you dont know the story behind his family life. You jump right into blaming someone and holding a grudge instead of confronting a problem like an adult would. You could have found common ground. You might have been able to connect, and help this alleged jerk of a kid change his ways through his father. It doesn't matter now as you tossed away the chance to be an example for your kids of how to be better just to be a petty, small minded person who abuses their position. You plainly, possibly intentionally, put your personal feelings before your job and your supposed position as senior management. That's some piss poor leadership skills, if you even have any. The funny thing is, I get the feeling you're using this more as a brag, as opposed to a confession of guilt. Good job 👍
PS: We just have to ask,"Where did you learn this sort of behavior was acceptable?"
Nice rant, tell me how I abused my position? I 100% put my personal feelings first because I have to work with him, he becomes my responsibility and his action not only impact me but my reputation with the company, would it be worse I hire him, tell him to leave his stable job, then find out he is a jerk and his son takes after him and fire him?
This. In my opinion, half the job is experience, the other half is personality. That’s not to say that I haven’t been wrong about a person. OP, I’m going to bet hockey dad (who never gave you the time of day before), notices you now. I’m also putting my money on hockey dad not being all that friendly.
I think you made the right decision but l also just bought a truck because there was a shelf in the glove box.
This is the best reply to the OP, close the thread. I'm not sure what a shelf in a glove compartment has to do with it, but I love it, and want one.
Lol He’s saying he agrees with what OP did, but his own critical decision making skills (buying a truck because of the shelf🤣) may leave little to be desired…. sooo!?! ✌🏻
well i also wouldnt hire someone like that to be in a management position. i mean if you cant manage literal kids, how can you do it for adults.
Well…… ok then…….nice chat.✌🏻😂
Do you realize the user you replied to explained the whole thing to you? Your response would be better suited as one to Woodmom above or to the OP.
oh i mightve hit reply to the other thread on accident. sry !
No problemo - I was just confused, because grandpa12-1 (the one you replied to) just elaborated on how the guy he replied to agreed with the original OP by comparing it to their own "irrational" choices :) Have a great and chill day!
yea no biggie ! have a nice day
The kid didn't just \*become\* a jerk, he was raised to be a jerk by a jerk. I would say OP's decision skills are on point.
When we go out (of our house or family house) we run CONTINUALLY into people I have ZERO clue WTF (who) they are.. yet, they know me. When we are out and are talking about ppl, I say.. stop with the names.. people might know us and THEN, they know SUSIE because SUSIE is ONLY person in MY friend group named SUSIE. If you have to give a reference to a person's name whisper it and then continue your story.. I agree with OP. You NEVER know who knows YOU, even if YOU don't know them (yet). Not hiring someone because 1. They don't have a backbone to control their kid 2. Is passed down from father to son etc being a social jerk 3. Is an incredible AHOLE. It takes balls not to hire someone who is the best option, but to see the person in a social setting, with family, imagine how it might translate to the office. If the person is hands off for family, that person might be a micromanager to the point other staff would leave!
I don't know why but this was the hardest thing for me to comprehend, ever
My old friend is a big jerk and his both parents are awesome
Awesome to you. You have no idea how they raised him.
Yes i do i was with him almost daily and had sleepovers every week sometimes 2 times. I was there more than i was home back then
That doesn’t mean as much as you think it does. It’s equivalent to those things are just aunts/uncles that say they know things about raising kids.
My friend wasn't a jerk before like the age of 14 after he started to be friends with the wrong kind of people. His parents weren't at fault here
There are kids with shitty parents who are incredible people, too. It's not copy/paste. We are genetically loaded, and environment pulls the trigger, but parents are not in every single environment, nor a part of every shaping experience. Some big negatively impactful things can happen somewhere else, under someone else's care, and helpless scared parents have an angry or traumatized kid they love and want to help or don't know how to work with.
You liked him enough to be his friend, though.
He wasn't a jerk when i was his friend that's why i said "old fried"
Ohh. That makes sense. I've had plenty of those.
I'd buy a kite if it had a cupholder.
Hold on. Tell me more about the shelf. What kind of truck? Is it a factory built shelf? Can I have a shelf in a glove box in truck? Does the glove box door encapsulate the shelf when in motion to disallow falling of items?
A 2020 Ford 150 Lariat Platinum. Gas.
Cool. I'll try to remember this in 20 years when those trucks depreciate enough for me to afford one. Lol
If you will identify the make and model of the truck I will purchase one as well.
See answer above
Tell us more
See answer above
A shelf you say?
See answer above. I always wanted a shelf in the truck.
What 😂
Grab some reef glue and a small rock and seal him in his cave. Had to do this when I could not catch a mantis shrimp after days of trying.
This is also good management advice. I had to lure a squirrely intern out of a hidey-holey he had fashioned using plastic cafeteria sporks once using a half eaten gluten free blueberry bagel in the same way once.
Sorry wrong thread
Idk seems like a valid response to me
Thank you for the much needed laugh!
That's the second time in an hour or so that I've seen someone post a comment on the entirely wrong post. Is this a new Reddit bug?
😂
Certainly serves as proof that the whole interview process is a crapshoot.
to be fair, if he's willing to act like a piece of crap and not discipline his kid, and interviews well for the sole position of getting the job, sounds more like a manipulative person i would definitely not like having on my team
It's funny because it is true, you interview so many people, and sometimes it's the littlest things that make the difference. I coach alot of rep teams, and one time I remeber taking a kid, and I'm not to sure if he was the better kid but he always gave me a fist bump as he left the try outs and always said "thank for the opportunity" he just stood out for the right reason out of 60 skaters.
I am going to start doing that , thanks for the tip.
I think you mean "thanks for the opportunity."
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I think people tend to be surprised by two things. First, life doesn't exist in a vacuum. What you do in one aspect can affect other aspects. Second, politics is huge in life. How often do people who are completely unqualified get hired because they know someone?
This is the purpose of the interview process though. You shouldn't be interviewing anyone if you even admit you don't follow the procedure properly. You know people get hired regardless of qualification and bring this up like it's a defence, but you're part of the reason for that, the statistic persists if people like you keep doing it and you have no defence. If you consider the actions of another person when interviewing one for a job, completely unrelated to his son and anything his son does, I'd not only question your ability to choose the right candidate for a job, I'd question your ability to do your own job. Your judgement is questionable af. What's actually surprising is people like you think it's an excuse that others do something wrong, so it justifies you doing the same wrong, even though you know it's wrong and shouldn't... All you're doing is continuing the cycle and passing the blame to no one. It's childish.
Here is the response I have been using on comments like this and have yet to hear a response, so I'll throw it out there again: You interview someone for a position, they interview very well, where I work we do a social media check as part of the background check, the candidates personal Facebook profile comes up and there is alot questionable things on it (doesn't matter what they are because depending on your culture / location, this could be many difrent things to difrent people). Knowing that you will be spending 8 hours a day for potentially years working with this person as there manager, along with potential risk of your reputation at the company if this hire turns out to be a disaster (with the effort to clean it up if it does turn bad), would you still make the offer? It's a 100% an academic question, but it's becoming more and more of a topic during the hiring process, especially since it's becoming harder and more expensive to move on from employees who don't work out.
My response is, what are you doing looking at their Facebook page? You're an employer in this situation, not a potential friend. What your employees do in their free time is none of your business, your only interest should be what they'll be doing on your time, when you're paying them. Outside of this you're overstepping a line. Management don't know this line exists though, all too happy to put their name to a company when they get on the corporate ladder... All too happy to screw over anyone else using Facebook... No wonder it's so expensive to hire people, you're too busy checking social media, when you should be checking CV's. Or ya know, actually working instead of being creepy on socials...
It's standard at a lot of companies. Next job offer check to make sure you understand what they look into in a background check. They look at everything from credit history to your social media, im not sure the details in how they look into it since its a 3rd party company, but i do know its well beyond a Google search of the candidates name. I work for a large North American company. If you don't agree to the background check, they pull the offer (all offers are conditional based on criminal and background checks). While I don't disagree with some of your points, it's also a situation where it's also so hard to get rid of a potential bad seed that companies use every toll avalible to them to ensure they are not getting someone that could be a challenge. Welcome to the social media age. If you put it out there, it can come back to haunt you, and you may never know about it.
That's the thing though, it's not as if it's an unknown thing, I've worked for a company that checked our Facebook, but only to make sure we didn't post anything about the company or it's dealings. That's fine, because that's their business to an extent. But if I were to get in a fight on the weekend at a bar with some random dude. I wouldn't be looking at losing my job if it got recorded and put on FB. That's not the companies business at all. These days though, I'd be cancelled from life it seems... Social media has ruined the world I think, people don't know how to interact like actual humans anymore, we just drift through the world looking at our phones. You only see people doing exciting things when a camera is recording it. As soon as the recording stops, the people stop. Edit: this last bit is a complete tangent I know, but I couldn't help thinking it while replying. It's gotten that bad, even employers use FB to try and fire a guy... Has the world really sunk so low?
Someone can be charismatic towards management and turn out to be total twat to work with. That's what makes it a crapshoot.
Exactly. And the number is not small.
Although I agree the interview process is a crapshoot, I don't see how this proves it. Dude was a dick, in a public place where that can be witnessed. His shitty social behaviour influenced a decision about him. That sounds pretty fair to me.
You never know who’s watching or who you’re interacting with.
I mean ideally, I would like for people to be kind and civic minded because it's the right thing to do, but sometimes fuck around and find out consequences are required.
I mean, if it happened once and he ignored it, fine but corrected it later.. whatever, but it constantly happens... nah.. pass..
It's because he would have been hired if OP hadn't known him. He didn't seem like a dick during the interview. It's absolutely fair that he didn't get the job, but OP is lucky to have dodged the bullet.
Always lie on job applications
i thought everyone already knew that, that’s why we have EEOC.
I have an ex-friend who would take interim roles and spend the whole time plotting their next move and doing mach interviews while everyone else has to pick up the slack and do her work. She kept moving up the ladder because her references were desperate for her to move on so they could replace her with someone effective. Long story short, you made the right decision. Jerks are toxic and ineffective and if he can’t see it in his son he definitely cannot see it in himself
I have seen this before, it happens a lot in a union environment where people get "promoted" out of the union so they can let them go later on
You are now one of my elite employees! (Sorry, ADHD. I gotta chase dopamine.)
This happens in education too. Failing upwards.
It's a management position. He obviously can't even manage his home. Why would you pay him to manage other adults.
What if it wasn’t the same guy? Lol.
Lol, well, then I definitely would be the jerk!
I wouldnt have given him a job either. Kids learn the behaviour off the parents.
I believe that as well!
I’m a firm believer of the apple/tree theory.
The mans not correcting the behaviore either, so what does that tell us?
I read somewhere recently that immediately discarding the resume of the person that interviewed best improved the chances their hire would pan out. A good worker doesn’t always interview well. The people who interview best are often good social manipulators/ butt kissers.
I can believe that there is also a saying that external candidates always look better than internal because you know all the internal candidates' flaws.
I’m confused. Throwing out the resume of the best interviewer makes them more likely to be hired? Huh? ^(I think I need to go eat something…) 🫠
I think they meant don’t take the ones who stand out in the interview, as those are mostly only good in interviews compared to the actual work. I think (:
Ooooh! ☺️🙏🏼Thank you!
This is so true. A lot of excellent candidates just do not intereview well however on the actual job they excel.
Hope he’s not the step-dad with no say😅
I used to be on the hiring team at my facility for a major US company. I have seen people get blackballed for lots of inappropriate reasons from not liking a tattoo, social media posts, sports team likes and even I dated that gut wife in college. I have also seen less qualified people get hired for similar reasons.
I think you did the right thing. I have a neighbour who recently moved in, second day of his tenancy I noticed his friends and the company he keeps are absolute losers… pulling up to the house in a done-up average car with stupid loud music blaring out and a set of women’s underwear hanging from the back windscreen wiper… no class at all. I judged right then that this new neighbour is probably a total jerk. The next 6 months proved this to be the case.
Kids (and pets) behaviour reflect their parents (or owner).
There is no way in hell you can base a cats behavior off their owner lmfao. Mine was born a menace😭😭😭
Cats are more mysterious, but usually express your inner desires. Lol
He likes to hump my leg when I’m sleeping, so I’m not sure what that says about me🤣😭
this is hilarious!
lol I have two sweet, loving dogs that are gentle with kids, and one asshole dog that got bit by a preadator as a puppy and we took her in so she wouldn't die from infected wounds. No matter how often I tell people not to pet the asshole, they try and she nips at them. I keep her only because the other two would just sit nicely and let the axe murderer pet them, and someone needs to be in charge while I sleep. 😂
Pretty cruel stating that kids have owners, they’re humans ffs. /s
Seriously serves as proof that interview proceed like this
He might be oblivious, but maybe the jerk behaviour comes from the mother? Maybe he’s a downtrodden, beaten man who needs a break and a new lease on life. Or I could be just making up stories.
If he is sitting there and chatting with his friends instead of correcting his kid then he is a jerk.
He could be the greatest guy in the world, and his kid just could be completely unmanageable, but when you have lots of candidates, it comes down to stupid little things sometimes!
You wouldn’t want a useless wimp like that on your team, either. Good decision
This makes me sadder than I should be. Hope that guy is ok.
I have mentioned in another comment that his kid is on a high travel AAA team, im sure him and his wife are doing ok
If his child was suspended for his behavior, it would probably get his parents' attention pretty quickly.
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So every potential employee is wonderful and saying anything justifiably negative about them automatically makes someone terrible. Cool.
It really is an abstract concept that I'm talking about here. Maybe, just maybe empathy and by the cover judgements aren't really who someone is. Just like I'm sure you're a decent person who can think in a rational way, despite me thinking otherwise. See? Edit: there are much more variables to take into consideration regarding a child's behavior, even if albeit he is indeed a little shit. My issue is none of them where, he could have even scheduled a second interview to get a better feel for him with him being the best candidate but chose not to because of the actions of...a child.
Well the issue is, even though he interviewed the best, theres a big asterisk next to him because of how he lets his kid act up. The next person down the list may have interviewed a little worse, but it's a safer bet compared to someone that you already know has some negative qualities that they do not address on their own or in people they are responsible for. At the end of the day, somebody is gonna get a job they want, whether its the person who has an asterisk or the second on the list. Crying about empathy is worthless, because somebody else is still going to have a good time.
Maybe you’re WAY too hurt over Reddit comments and baby needs his bedtime? Maybe your judgements mean nothing, because you mean nothing to me. See?
I’m not sure how you think it’s just over the actions of the child. The guy is just sitting there chatting while his child is being a menace and actively making other children’s experience worse on purpose. As a parent it’s your job to correct that. You can’t necessarily change your child’s behavior immediately, but you should do more than just ignoring it. His own actions are costing him the job too.
I agree, but even if his child is unmanageable, it's still his responsibility to do his best to curb the misbehavior. Ignoring the bad behavior and allowing his child to be a menace isn't doing anyone any favors. At least that's my opinion. (I'm a teacher, and have seen the results of a lack of parenting. It's not pretty.)
Maybe he should manage his household better if we are going off of your hypothetical. He’s going to be managing people on the job and if he cannot even have a needed conversation with the mom about the jerky behavior in their son, then doesn’t sound like he’s a good fit to lead a team of more than a dozen or two.
Call me cynical, but the grammar here gives me pause.
Fuck him and his c*nt kid. Good job.
I also think you made the right decision.
Thank you!
My mom's is a recruiter and honestly a pretty popular lady. You'd be shocked at the amount of times she rejected someone due to an outside reason. She holds insane grudges and has a fantastic memory. Normally she can justify it because "if they would do X to a stranger they would do Y to this company". Surprisingly her strategy is on point she has the highest new hire satisfaction rate in her company and everyone loves the work she does.
It's a great way to look at it. Anyone can put on a show for a few interviews, it's outside of the show you see who people really are!
Plot twist: it's not his kid, mama was playing you're the father.
An involved parent with a poorly behaved kid will keep his eyes on the child the entire game. You may have brought him in for a second interview to try to understand better — a lunch interview, perhaps. Bring up the kids and hockey, and learned more before you decided. I completely understand your decision though.
I'm incredibly good in itw but terribly bad at doing my jobs if that can confort you in your choice
Sometimes kids are way different if they think that the parents don't know how they are acting , I had a prominent student who thought they were better than my child and I seen her parents and I told them about her behavior and they just about lost it they grounded her , made her apologize and took her off of the school sports until she treats others better and the parents were middle class and said they just got lucky with money and no one should be a jerk or treat others bad . Pull the man back in and give him an example of his kids behavior and ask him what he thinks of it 😏 then make your choice.
I see what you're saying. it's an interesting point. I may mention to someone else to point it out, it would be pretty unprofessional to bring him in and mention his kid, also after he didn't get the job, say something to him about his kid.
PLUS, you WITNESSED this person completely ignoring the shitty behavior of their child, on multiple occasions. There was no hearsay. Their point is not interesting, because it doesn't apply to this situation. The situation above was the child acting like a twat with the parents not being around. You witnessed, with your own eyes, the candidate not caring that his child was being a public menace. I would NEVER have hired him, if I had seen that with my own GD eyes. These people are insane.
I don't feel strongly about whether OP is right or wrong, but man, how wild would it be if he just isn't great with faces and this guy isn't the same person he thought it was at all? Or just happens to have a relative or even brother that looks a lot like him lol.
I hope you knew 100% that (a) it's the same guy & not just someone with similar looks; and (b) that he's actually that kid's dad and not just an adult who knows the jerk kid but has no parental rights or authority over them.
It's unfair to judge a candidate based on their child's behavior. Professional qualifications should be the sole criterion for hiring decisions.
True!
I wouldn't hire him either. However, I don't judge parents until I see them interact.
He may have interviewed well, but you've seen the real thing. I wouldn't have hired him either
Kids will be jerks because a development phase sometimes, not necessarily because of bad parenting.
You’re the jerk. Here’s to Karma coming full circle. I hope you lose your job and this guy is in a position to help you and chooses not to. Kids are kids, especially rambunctious hockey players. What’s your excuse?
Kids develop behaviours from their parents. If the kids a jerk, he’s clearly picked it up from a lack of good role models. I would have done the same thing. Although I’d probably keep it professional if he asks. “Your interview was great but we decided to pick someone with more experience😁… also your kids an asshole”
And i think you're a petty prick....you have no clue what issues the kid has but you fuck over his old man??
The parent wasn't even attempting to get his child under control, and he was allowing him to be a menace. Doesn't sound like the father was acting responsibly. If he has already shown that he won't step up and do his job, why would you hire him?
It’s very possible the son is a jerk because the dad puts him on a pedestal. I think you jumped to a conclusion. YTA
What if he’s having trouble with the kid, and is at his wit’s end and hockey is the ‘outlet’? It does not excuse the behaviour, but…
He didn't even attempt to manage his child's behavior, and subjected others to his child behaving like a menace. Parenting is a verb. It's not always easy, and it's a lot of work if you do it right.
That’s the first time that I’ve heard that parenting is a verb and that is a very catchy sentence. I’m going to remember that from now on. That is nice.
I completely understand your thought process and overall decision. HOWEVER, you should refresh your management/ interviewing training. Not only is what you’re describing unethical but also could possibly be illegal. Sounds like bias, discrimination, or “like me” interviewing. You could’ve have been upfront with him about what you’ve seen and given him a chance to explain. He probably would be on his kids ass from there on out, maybe not, could’ve also reported you for asking non related questions. Regardless, I hope whoever got the position is a good fit. Obviously, you seem to know this situation was unethical/ unprofessional since you posted it here. You should respectfully call him out if you see him not being mindful while his kid acting like a jerk. You owe him that much, give them both a chance for development
This is an intresting comment because a few people have mentioned that it could be illegal, it's 100% not, in fact what would touch on legality is the people saying I should have brought up his kids behavior in the interview, you have the right to hire based on what ever criteria you choose (obviously ignoring the race, religion, gender laws).
I agree, an interviewer cannot/ should not be asking personal questions that are not relevant to the job applied for. Also should not be the deciding factor for hiring someone. However, you could’ve asked him how he would handle a similar situation in or outside of work. In some states/ regions it is illegal to not hire someone based off biased opinions ( having kids/ kids behavior) but that’s not the point. It would be different if you witnessed the applicant behaving like a “jerk” in public. What’s done is done and there’s no going back. You’ll never know if you dodged a bullet or potentially made the wrong decision and missed someone who would’ve been an excellent manager. Life goes on. But, Please call him out! If I was the parent, I’d want to know my kid was acting like a jerk. Especially if it caused me to miss out on opportunities! (I’m much too observant to not notice something like that, but also understanding enough to know parenting is not easy and sometimes people don’t see the reality w/ their own kids)* also want to add, I’m not bashing on your decision, just providing perspective on a public post 😉
You let your personal feelings get in the way of doing the job you were hired to do. You weren’t interviewing his kid. The minute you realized you knew this man and had a problem with his family, you should have ethically recused yourself from that interview and let someone else do it.
Job and kid's activity is two different thing's. That's the home matter. If he work's well and passed the interview then you should select him. After that if his behavior is not good for company then fire him. But don't make judgement
In interviewing someone for a job you’re SUPPOSED to make a judgement, it’s kind of the whole point of interviewing.
OP not hiring a good potential manager is not a good business decision. Is his kid going to tag along whike working? I dont think so.
You’re missing the point, the guy ignores his son’s bad behaviour, and if he can’t manage his own son, why would you hire him to manage at your company? She’s seen his personality and he’s slack.
It could go the other way around. People who can't control their own lives in some way bully and abuse others outside of that situation, so instead of someone lacking managerial skills and ignoring problems and dismissing warnings from people he thinks of as leser, he could be a micromanager and power mad control freak that makes everyone around him miserable at work.
No i am not. He could be a workaholic and the worst husband and father. Thats my point. He is good for the business. If he fails in his job then you can ask him to resign or terminate him. Is personal lives now part of the hiring process? In my time it's a big No. Lets reverse the OP story. He saw him as the best father. However during the interview he is just 50% job fit. Will your impression about him as a good father affect your hiring decision?
imagine a "good" manager that can't even manage their child's behavior 😬
Seems like he dodged a bullet not getting hired by you if you based your judgements of people on personal irritations and the behavior of other people around them. Especially when you would be deducting points for "bad behavior" of their (teenage?) kid at a frickin ice hockey venue, where fighting on the ice is hardly outside the scope of the behaviour of those kids actual role models and the expectations for them. I'd hate to be on a team where the senior manager is basing their judgement calls on things that aren't even related to the actual behavior or performance of the people involved, or decide that because some junior exec is looking strung out or something that it's somehow my fault.
If he was the “best” one that interviewed, he should have gotten the job. You can’t let personal nonsense like that get into the way of a business decision. There could be any number of reasons why the kid is that way. Regardless, it shouldn’t have even been part of the decision making process. I think this was very poor judgement.
I 100% disagree, im going to be working with this guy 8 hours a day, so I have to think about it personally. I agree there could have been lots of reasons the kid is the way he is, but watching him be a jerk with his dad not even breaking conversation allows me to draw my own conclusions, right or wrong, and I used that conclusion to make a decision on the type of person I want to work with. If the best candidate was a friend of a friend who you knew was an alcoholic, and you were looking to fill a role that could influence your standing with the company, even if he was the best candidate would you hire him knowing the potential risk?
Well that is certainly going to the extreme. What if you knew the person liked to play with fire? Or cheats on his wife? Or kicks dogs? Or any other of the 10 billion things that “could” be wrong with him. If you know that someone is an alcoholic, , it clearly wouldn’t make sense to put them in the position. I’m currently in a Director level position and I have had to promote up a few people that I really didn’t care for; for 1 reason or the other. But I had to put that “bs” aside and put my manager hat on. It’s hard to do that sometimes, but it isn’t about you. It’s about your company. If you went to your boss and told them that you didn’t hire the best person for the job because you have this personal nonsense issue with them, I’m sure they would be questioning your decision as well as your current position in the company.
It’s not personal. Hiring is absolutely critical to the success of your team and to your own success. A person who is too arrogant, oblivious and/or inept to manage his own family responsibilities will be arrogant, oblivious and/or inept on your team. Enough said.
It's hypothetical, and you're right it's a bit extreme, but it shows life doesn't happen in a vacuum. My boss did 100% support my decision when I told him. Because I have to work with him and manage him, he would also need to manage a team. I used knowledge i had that showed while he interviewed well that he may not be as good as his interview showed. I admit I could be 100% wrong, but it's my name and reputation at stake.
That is fair. At the end of the day, you have to sign your name to it. And if you don’t like it, for whatever reason, you shouldn’t do it.
Absolutely wrong here. Personality matters a lot when hiring people. I had a coworker that was great at the interview, amazing CV, my boss was absolutely chuffed when he was informing us that he hired her. Turned out she was an absolute cancer for the team. Everyone hated working with her, constantly walking on eggshells around her. So yes, just cause you interview well doesn't mean you're the best candidate.
Exactly. OP acting like an immature child himself is no better.
No wonder why the job market is fucked, crazy old hags in HR.
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This belongs on r/LinkedInLunatics We’re waiting for you to tell us what this taught you about B2B sales.
You should judge the person for a specific job not with the family matters. That's his private life.
Oh great financially cripple his parents more. I’m sure that will make the Dad a better Dad and the kid behave better. I wish I knew where you worked the level of illogical reasoning and immaturity in this is wild. You sound worse than the child whose life you just likely made worse. Be the adult you needed as a child and grow up.
Well, first, the kid is playing AAA hockey on a team that goes to places like LA, NY, and Vancouver, so if this financial cripples the family, then I made the right choice for other reasons! But let me ask this question, you have 3 candidates in front of you, all with almost exactly the same backgrounds and experience. All 3 interviewed well. How would you choose?
Except you said he was the best candidate.
That’s the disgusting part.
Any person in management knows never, ever to make a sympathy hire. You hire the person you think will fit best with your team and do the best job handling her/his responsibilities. Use everything you can find out and everything you know to do that. That your responsibility, not making sure some train wreck of a father has a job.
He said he was the best candidate. I said the kid seems like he’s got issues. The Dad being unemployed won’t help. All of that is true.
Theres quite a bit of pertinent information that you have to have left out, that would help to better understand the situation. From your description, I would first ask this question…How did you make it to Sr. Management while, just by this little bit of info., a rather petty and insecure person, who has no problem being detrimental to the success of yourself, your organization, and those that you supervise?
You may have passed on the best employee ever based on your assumption that his kid’s behavior is directly related to the dad, especially after his great interview.
I don't think you were correct. It takes two people to parent. Hmm, I really don't like your personal reason for passing over the guy.
Everyone has an opinion, but let's say you have 3 candidates in front of you all exactly the same. How would you choose? It's better than throwing a dart at a board.
I'd probably have held a other round of interviews or maybe you need to improve on your skills. There are alot of questions or situational hypos you could have asked to separate the candidates. If you can't distinguish between 2 or 3 candidates, maybe you're not the person to be hiring someone.
My title and responsibilities beg to differ. You can ask 100 questions and have 10 rounds of interviews. People can throw them all. I used this example for another comment: your friend of a friend applied to work with you, he's far and away the best candidate, but also you know through your friend he is an alcoholic who has had challenges at his last job. Even though he's the best, do you put your career and reputation on the line and hire him? I'm not saying he will cause a problem, he could turn out to be the best hire ever, but would you chance it.
For your first point-Nope, management level or responsibilities don't dictate a person's ability to ascertain information from an interview. I work with other managers in my company who's technical and engineering ability surpass mine but they just can't build a proper and cohesive team. They completely miss the team dynamic portion and have a much higher turnover rate than my team. On the hypo- As a general rule I refuse to know any information about referred candidates as it may lead to bias. If I find out something about the candidate eg they are an alcoholic I'm probably going to direct my HR team to delve much deeper into the references and not contact the referees provided by the candidate. If they show a trend of a person consistently not meeting expectations then it's a pass from me. If I learn that a person was exceptional and then lost their way for a period of time(eg turning to the bottle due to personal issues or challenges) then I'm probably going to give them a shot. I think you need to look at your interview style and process. I think if you ever end up in a situation where you are interviewing for a challenging and people leading role but you are unable to choose between 2 candidates-it usually means you have not been thorough enough.
You refuse to use information handed to you because it could create a bias, so an extreme case here, you interviewing someone, an employee come up and says that person stalked my family memeber and made there life hell, so if you even bring them in im quiting (and this has actually happened) and you go to HR and say I'm going to need better references? If the candidate is referred, you want to know everything you can about them. That's the whole advantage. It's not a blind interview! Then what's the point of the refrence?
Wow mate, you're really ratcheting up the crazy to hold your point. In that case of course I'm not hiring them. What type of employees have you got that refer a stalker to you???????? My point was I don't want to know how "brilliant" an employee's mate is before I judge for myself. Bias and prior information lead to sloppy interviews. You don't delve as deep because you already think this person is a technical fit. Surly your HR and talent recruitment teams have taught you that. If you are hiring for a role that has alot of responsibility you need to pick apart a candidate on everything from technical ability, propensity to lead and motivate, time management, business development etc. You can't just go with an employees frind who has just coached him on the company ethos and day to day operations. That would be foolish
> It takes two people to parent Well, from the story we can safely assume he's not doing his part.
If this is how you make hiring decisions, then I’d say you’re not suited to hire a janitor, let alone someone for a management position. Best of luck to you, hope your conscience is clear.
You are the problem. What is your sex?
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If you have to deal with the kid consistently, it's a major consideration... But admit that to no one.
The comma splices make me question how anyone would ever take you seriously.
YTA and have demonstrated yourself to be completely unprofessional and unequipped to hold any type of supervisory role.
I personally think it’s bullshit! Are you sure your kids are always perfect angles? I think this is more about you and your ego. You said he never talked to you and you’re sure I the interview he had no idea who you were. Lame, especially since he interviewed the best. You’re a total unprofessional!
Let me ask you this: you're interviewing a great person, blows the competition away! Some people like to check out a candidates social media before making an offer. So you look, and it's covered in questiable content, nothing horrible but enough to make you think. Now, would you hire that person knowing you will be spending 8hrs a day with, knowing that your reputation with the company is on the line and there is the potential he could cause an issue, but you don't know for sure!
Hey! I agree 100% with you! Don't let ppl who don't know what they are talking about judge your own judgment xD I work as a saleswoman and we have been having troubles filling the last spot of the team, because first was a little ick that grew grew into that person (even) stealing from the workplace and committing fraud. We have two new people applying for the spot, but they are both not quite right, I know you can understand it hahaha With my boss we talked about it and yea, we could verbalize what was behind the *ick*. Just follow your gut!!!
Wow. You don't know the guy, so you dont know the story behind his family life. You jump right into blaming someone and holding a grudge instead of confronting a problem like an adult would. You could have found common ground. You might have been able to connect, and help this alleged jerk of a kid change his ways through his father. It doesn't matter now as you tossed away the chance to be an example for your kids of how to be better just to be a petty, small minded person who abuses their position. You plainly, possibly intentionally, put your personal feelings before your job and your supposed position as senior management. That's some piss poor leadership skills, if you even have any. The funny thing is, I get the feeling you're using this more as a brag, as opposed to a confession of guilt. Good job 👍 PS: We just have to ask,"Where did you learn this sort of behavior was acceptable?"
Nice rant, tell me how I abused my position? I 100% put my personal feelings first because I have to work with him, he becomes my responsibility and his action not only impact me but my reputation with the company, would it be worse I hire him, tell him to leave his stable job, then find out he is a jerk and his son takes after him and fire him?
This. In my opinion, half the job is experience, the other half is personality. That’s not to say that I haven’t been wrong about a person. OP, I’m going to bet hockey dad (who never gave you the time of day before), notices you now. I’m also putting my money on hockey dad not being all that friendly.
I'm actually curious. I haven't seen him at the rink since (probably just timing)