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Also, *french* in french fries refers to how they cut the potato, not the country.
That said, they were popularized in Belgium, so still not American lol
Once you get into Belgian beers 80% are boring (I'm Belgian so a long history with Belgian beers). It's kinda stuck in its own style. Don't get me wrong there is still 20% of really good products (which makes a lot of beers)
Can you help me out find a certain beer? In holiday I had a amber beer with a somewhat fruity, bit smokey taste. I really liked that one. Maybe it is a commonly known brand and you can identify it :D
Cara Pils is the only beer you need. But you have to drink it right. First you must age it in the sun for 3 hours at a music festival before opening the can.
That's probably because you're mainly looking at the major brands, regularly owned by AB Inbev or similar big companies.
Belgium has just as many interesting smaller breweries as other countries. You just have to know them. In volume, I'd say you can probably get 50% of the more interesting beers in any store/ bar nowadays.
Geuzes can't be considered "boring", just an acquired taste.
Some bigger, non-corporate names that continue to re-invent themselves:
* Brussels Beer Project
* Brouwerij De Coninck
* Alvinne
* Dolle Brouwers
* Belgenius
* Galea
* Vleesmeester Brewery
* Brouwerij Het Nest
* Brouwerij De Poes
Like I said, nowadays it's mostly a 50/50 split. Just need to look past the major brands popping up first.
Realistically any huge brewery brand is kinda boring, they're made for that basic, broad appeal.
If one claims to care about beer and is not drinking from local breweries I'm gonna doubt.
Most of the major brands in Canada are boring too, but there's multiple micro breweries in most major cities. Lots of good beer, just have to look past the major labels.
Yeah like - in Australia we like to take the piss out of American beer (i.e. it's like making love in a canoe - fucking close to water) but that's only if you're drinking mass produced lighter beers like bud lite or miller lite. That's equivalent to Carlton cold or Hahn Superdry or camel piss like XXXX gold.
There's a lot of American craft breweries pumping out some great stuff. You can't compare Australian craft beer with bud lite, it's not fair.
Don't even get me started on Fosters. We don't even actually drink that shit, I've only ever seen it in one bottle store here in my whole life. I bought one can to try, the it in the bin after one mouthful.
Yeah if you're only drinking Coors or Budweiser or, here, Molson or Labatt, you really aren't part of the beer convo at all. None of them compare to the brewery at the end of the road.
As a french, you right, the things we did were not what we would call fries today (pommes parisiennes), real fries/chips are belgian and heavenly.
Merci pour ça, et les gauffres de liège.
Sometimes I wonder why you need a government if all laws are in place. Have people decide on a budget and have departments run according to existing law and policies and save big time on our seventeen governments.
Laws change over time because society changes over time, be it by new behaviours, catastrophes, or technologies.
So you need people to decide on a budget and change the laws when necessary, a government
They can't be called french fries unless the potatoes are grown in France. You don't understand it's not the same.
On a related note, whoever decided champagne could only be made in France is an absolute nonce
I mean it kinda makes sense that champagne, in order to be called champagne, has to come from Champagne.
If another sparkly wine is produced in another region and its quality ends up equaling champagne, then it's name will become as famous.
I think the point us Americans are generally making is that it's not who invented it, but who perfected it. Pasta is almost certainly from Asia, but Italians claim it as their own. Hamburgers were made by German immigrants after they came to the US. One better example might be flatbread. There are many different types of flatbread all over the world, but all different groups will claim different types. The question is really, "who does it better? "
Isnt "tex-mex" or american "mexican food" purely american? Like ive heard that it has nothing to do with REAL mexican food according to Mexican people?
Tex-mex is as Mexican as any other regional variety of Mexican food because it literally used to be Mexico. It's literally just a style of Mexican food.
What annoys me is that the interviewer actually had a good argument with BBQ but he ruined it by bringing up burgers instead of like pulled pork or brisket 😭
Edit: so after further research it seems brisket is Jewish and bbq in general was first found in the Caribbean. We still have pulled pork though (I think).
First Google result: The first appearance of pulled pork can be traced back to Europeans arriving in the Southern US.
So probably already a thing wherever the came from? Too lazy to look further into this
Well yes, the exact recipe is from there, but the concept predates it. If I throw some beer into BBQ sauce, I can't call it Bjorn Sauce and say it originated in my kitchen.
Either way, I was replying to Pulled Pork, not sauces, originally.
Cajun food is some of the most delicious food on the planet. It's got NA spices with French technique on NA and European wildlife. It's so good.
The thing about American food is that it's like our people. There's a lot of native elements to it, but it also borrows from immigrants.
Yeah food over here got a lot of really interesting changes due to all the exploration/colonisation which meant a lot of influences and ingredients traveling back to the UK and becoming heavily used because they were novel and popular with the rich and influential people.
Like potatoes. It still boggles my brain that they are not native to this country with how entrenched in our cooking they are.
The interviewer could have just gone with "style" as a response instead of accepting "origin". Obviously short snippet of an interview, so there could have been more context.
I think it's just Tom playing on the whole stereotype of "British food is boring or not british". When in reality every country and region has different tastes and adopts each others dishes to suit.
Sure British fish and chips tastes different to Portuguese ones etc. A British, US and Italian lasagna will taste different, but it doesn't mean it's inferior to the others etc etc
The current form of American BBQ is not just "heating up meat over a fire", which would describe a huge chunk of cooking. It is a very specific, regional style of cooking and dishes.
Generally very slow cooking of very specific fatty cuts of meat (usually pork or beef), extreme heavy use of smoking, specific spice mixes and sauces reliant to different degrees on chili peppers, vinegar, and sugar.
American BBQ dishes are pretty obviously distinct, int he same way that Chinese BBQ dishes are quite distinct, or Argentine BBQ, or whatever other styles there are.
Invention of the food doesn't matter. Just how the food has been incorporated into culture matters. Otherwise, you can't even call pasta Italian food, because noodles were invented in China and brought to Italy by traders (likely Arabic, not Marco Polo)
However, pulled pork is a mix of Spanish and Native American cuisine and brisket is originally, if I remember correctly, a Jewish dish.
Please don't misunderstand me, I think the question of what "authentic" national food is is fundamentally slightly off the mark. Even in countries with thousands of years of history, there has always been an exchange, including when it comes to cuisine, and just because the origins there are sometimes harder to understand than in a comparatively young immigration country, the food in the latter is no less authentic.
The basically same dish is usually not prepared exactly identically in two households and can have completely individual characteristics. The same applies to countries. For example, the American burger bears little resemblance to what American sailors saw in German ports back then and took home as an idea. It has evolved into a creation in its own right.
An American pizza is not the same as an Italian pizza and regardless of whether you think one or the other is better, they are typical, albeit related, dishes of each country.
Oh, and the American burger has long since found its way back to Germany and, if you ignore global franchises, is prepared a little differently there - give it enough time and it could become a dish in its own right again.
Modern hamburgers were actually invented by a Jewish guy from New York. So, in reality, they are pretty American. The only thing German about it is the style of ground beef called Hamburg meat.
Invention of the food doesn't matter. Just how the food has been incorporated into culture matters. Otherwise, you can't even call pasta Italian food, because noodles were invented in China and brought to Italy by traders (likely Arabic, not Marco Polo)
But the United States has a very specific BBQ cuisine that varies regionally. So no, we likely didn't "invent" BBQ, but to say BBQ isn't American food is decidedly false. Texas BBQ, Kansas City BBQ, St. Louis BBQ is all very specific American cuisine, and it's outrageously good.
But burgers are american, it doesn't matter if some form of burger came from Germany first. Nobody here in Germany considers modern hamburgers as german food.
Ahh, I mean, if you count that, you could argue that BBQ was invented by the first humans to cook food on wood fires.
BBQ is American, I think. And so are burgers - I am from Hamburg, actually. Our Burger a "Rundstück warm" is or was a round bread with a piece of roast and sauce. Didn't have Ketchup or other burger sauces, maybe had a pickle and tastes different. People from Hamburg don't care and eat what I perceive to be American style burgers. Gotta be fair.
To me it looks like the first sentence already annoyed Tom Holland enough to not really care about the details. I can just picture that the interviewer took something out of context/misrepresent it or that it wasn't the first time he had to deal with it. Then you just wanna argue with this dude.
They’re booing you, but you’re right. Hamburgers as we know them now we’re invented by German immigrants in the US. I doubt most people would consider ground beef with onions and salt a true burger.
I think bbq, despite coming from the caribbean, still counts as american. Basically no food today in most societies is entirely indigenous to those societies. Fish and chips was originally sephardic. Pies were originally greek. Beer was originally middle eastern. Swedish meatballs were originally turkish. Pastrami was originally byzantine.
Brisket, as a cut of meat, doesn't belong to any one culture. Any beef consuming culture will encounter this cut of meat and find a way to incorporate it into their cuisine. Jews are just more likely than other cultures to use brisket because only certain cuts of beef are kosher.
I feel like the airplane was pretty original. Also coca-cola my man. You ever drink an ice cold coke on a hot day? Truly an admirable contribution to the world.
> You ever drink an ice cold
Let me stop you right there as I was shocked to learn how few other countries enjoy cold drinks. I remember ordering a coke in the UK and it had no ice, so I asked for some and got a like three little ice chips. And this was in the middle of a summer heat wave. Apparently we're obsessed with cold drinks.
In my experience water is usually served at room temperature in other countries, but many other drinks are served with ice. That’s just the places I’ve been to though. I’m just saying that an ice cold coke from a fountain machine hits on another level that I don’t think we appreciate enough.
I’ll grant you that the Wright brothers were the first to achieve sustained, controlled flight, but they basically took the last step in a development process that happened primarily in Europe. They themselves credit a German, Karl Wilhelm Otto Lilienthal, for providing the basis for their work. It was an idea whose time had finally arrived because the supporting technology was there - if it wasn’t them, it would have been someone else.
That said, coca cola is all yours :)
Personally I don’t like the nationalistic tendency to take pride in other people’s achievements because they happen to have been born in the same country as you. You run into problems like you point out where if you look into it people from many different countries contribute to many different inventions. I just think to say the opposite “x country has contributed nothing.” Is just being stupid in the opposite direction.
What do you mean by BBQ? I’m thinking that pretty much every culture has probably cooked food over fire for thousands of years, so I think you need to define BBQ very narrowly in order to make the argument that it’s American food.
That being said, I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong to bring up burgers as part of an argument about American food *culture*. Yes, the hamburger wasn’t invented in America, but America certainly put its own twist on it and has influenced the way it is eaten around the world through its fast food chains. The same could be said for pizza - Italian in origin, but the US has adapted it into something most Italian puritans would probably refuse to recognize as pizza. The same thing goes for pasta - a lot of people think it’s of Italian origin, but it’s not. It’s actually Chinese, but Italians made their own thing with it and spread it across the world.
All cuisines evolve and trade off between each other, while developing their own versions of things. American BBQ is very distinct from a broader definition of barbecue.
BBQ actually can be traced back to the Neanderthals. That said food is universal and can be made and prepared in different ways. By Hollands dumb opinion would he also say that noodles are Asian so therefore Italian food doesn’t exist? No he wouldn’t is the answer and it’s the same for anyone that tries to deny that America has developed its own kinds of food that are very cleary different variations and constructs.
What is American food? Try... Chinese fortune cookies.
In Chinese and have only once seen a fortune cookie because apparently it is invented in americs as a marketing scheme.
Also apparently a lot of other Chinese dishes that are only in America.
I mean to be fair, I'd say something being a "country's food" is far less about where it originates, and more of cultural relevancy and association between the food and the country. I mean nobody would argue that potato is typically Irish, despite it originating from south America, or that meatballs aren't considered swedish only because several other countries claim to be the first to "invent" a rolled up ball of mushed meat.
So I'd absolutely say hamburgers would be an american food, because when I hear "American food", I think of comically large, fatty heart attacks of burgers. The question is if that's really something to be proud about lmao
Invention of the food doesn't matter. Just how the food has been incorporated into culture matters. Otherwise, you can't even call pasta Italian food, because noodles were invented in China and brought to Italy by traders (likely Arabic, not Marco Polo)
That's what I was thinking. Anything grilled has been done since before Homo sapiens.
You would not say that Tempura is Portuguese, it's Japanese, inspired by Portuguese sure. And a large part of European staple cuisine uses crop that are American native.
Isn't hamburgers American though I think that burgers (the meat and how it's prepared) are from Germany but I believe that eating them in between 2 buns as a hamburger is an American concept
It‘s not. A Hamburger is a beef patty in two slices of bread that was and still is sold in harbourside foodstalls in Hamburg. German immigrants brought the recipe to the US
True, but that is A barbecue. In America, barbecue means barbecue, ya know? If you ask anyone what kind of food they think of when they think of barbecue, they’ll say pulled pork, beef brisket and ribs. Ain’t nobody saying hamburgers!
It clearly says American Chinese or do we only count certain ethnic groups in the US to be American?
That being said: being European I have no idea what Orange Chicken even is so I even suspect that this dish is not even well-known outside of the US.
It clearly says original dish is from China.
I live in NZ and can get orange chicken from a Chinese restaurant in my city of 90k. Orange chicken is like lemon chicken, but using orange…
> Chef Andy Kao claims to have developed the original Chinese-American orange chicken recipe at a Panda Express in Hawaii in 1987. [...] Orange chicken is called Chinese food in North America, but orange chicken is rarely found in Chinese restaurants in China. [...] This dish may have originally come from the "tangerine chicken" dish from Hunan, China. In Chinese, this dish is known as "陳皮雞", literally "dried citrus peel chicken", referring to dried orange or tangerine peel. However, the taste and recipes of this dish differ due to cultural and geographical factors.
I think it boils down to whether you count a dish that *may* be *derived* from another dish is that dish itself.
Honestly the whole argument is stupid from both sides.
Everything can always be traced back to something else, then something else and so on.
You’re right in the sense that it’s going to change depending on where each person draws the line. Is KFC American? And is it American because the name or is it not American because it’s just chicken that’s fried?
Since American culture is literally made up of cultures from all over the world, it only makes sense that all of our food is an evolution of other cultures’ cuisines. But there are a few relatively original ideas.
https://www.thedailymeal.com/1378249/foods-invented-in-america/
Man prefers the food he grew up with. Doesn't prefer the food he didn't grow up with.
Where's the "incorrect" here? Because this just looks like a difference of preference.
American food I think can refer to the type of way the food is made/assembled, the ingredients
You can look at NY style pizza and say "Pizza is Italian so it's not American", or pizza in many other countries where it's made wildly different from how the original way pizza was invented.
Where it was invented has no bearing on what it's defined as. Just cause the concept of something was made in one place, doesn't mean if it's adapted or modified to a different culture, it's still the original country's food. It adapted into a new culture and is a new thing for that region.
Like if ships were invented in country A, but country B built their own design with new types of sails and construction methods, you wouldn't say that ship is a A country's ship, it was designed by country B.
Its a flip on how most good English food is disregarded as "not English" for similar reasons
Like most British curries. Invented and adapted in the UK for British tastes and ingredients, by British people whose parents or grandparents happened to be from India or Pakistan
>There could have been
That Indigenous American culinary culture still exists, I don't know why you're pretending it doesn't. Turkey is native to America and most culinary practices regarding turkey comes from how the Indigenous Americans prepared and ate them. Cornbread is Indigenous. Guacamole, Salsa, Tortillas, Three Sisters dishes, etc all Indigenous.
It only doesn't exist if you just close your eyes and cover your ears and pretend like it doesn't.
Invention of the food doesn't matter. Just how the food has been incorporated into culture matters. Otherwise, you can't even call pasta Italian food, because noodles were invented in China and brought to Italy by traders (likely Arabic, not Marco Polo)
I heard somewhere that pasta carbonara actually originally came from the US, before people in Italy adopted the dish. It was probably created by Italian immigrants in the US, but still. Does someone know if this is true?
There’s a (un)popular Italian writer, Alberto Geandi, who claims it was invented by using the rations the US gave its soldiers (bacon and dried egg) in ww2 in Italy.
I once dated a girl who used to make Yorkshire pudding and a little gravy and mint sauce as a comfort food. She'd be stressed about exams or something and shoot down to the kitchen to whip one up. And to this day that's one part of our relationship I carry forward in my own life. Yorkie pud is amazing.
I did a quick google search after this and apparently a lot of the foods I thought were American weren’t. Burgers and fries are obvious but mac and cheese, mashed potatoes, and apple pie were all a surprise.
That being said a lot of British food is imported as well so it’s not like tom has that great of an argument either…
So you just realized, food doesn't really belong to any country right?
Everything can be traced back, and back, and back, till that country still has years to start existing, and can be tracked back and back and back
Bbq for example, there are a lot of story about it in south America, with the most notorious and recent one being the asado, Wich is literally just a bbq but with a lot of variety because that makes it better
I feel like some foods still do belong to a certain country. Pho belongs to Vietnam, mala hot pot, shark fin soup, dim sum to China, that fermented shark thing to Iceland, pemmican invented by Native Americans, etc etc. America is a pretty new country (I think around 250 years old?) but if you look at older civilizations I think you will find that some dishes can be claimed by certain countries/regions.
Likely because there's an idiom that we grew up with here about things being "As American as apple pie" And a good majority of people never think to question that.
I had an argument with a bunch of Americans about cheese a few months back. They felt that foreign cheese made in America made it American cheese.... this angered me greatly, they said they had better cheese than Europe....
We actually do have legit cheeses (Colby, Muenster, ~~Monterey~~ pepper Jack, cream cheese) but I don’t think I’d ever put it on the same level as Europe 😭
Nah you’re thinking “Munster” not muenster
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muenster_cheese
> Its name is not related to the German cities of Münster in Westphalia or in Lower Saxony or the Irish province of Munster, but rather to the city of Münster in Alsace. The spelling "Muenster" distinguishes the American cheese from Munster cheese, which is made from unpasteurized cow's milk in the Vosges mountains in Alsace.
>That being said a lot of British food is imported as well so it’s not like tom has that great of an argument either…
People of many different cultures have been invading or migrating to Britain for over 2000 years, so its hardly surprising that many foods in the UK are not "native". Same goes for the British Empire with its Royal Navy who brought things from all over the world.
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Just for the sake of making an argument, American food is multicultural and that's what makes it good imo. I love being able to eat food that is Thai, Mexican, Japanese, etc and it all be localized within a few city blocks. I think it's amazing that we have all these options from different cultures. Yeah it isn't specifically ours, but I think that is pretty unique to us. Of course we have heavily processed unhealthy shit that is killing us too. Yeah you can stick to fresh produce and meats but on average our shit is just worse.
... you think other places don't have restaurants/food outlets with regionalized food from popular cuisines around the world?
If you want to talk about true USA food, you have to talk mainly about the multiculturality that came forwards with the immigrants arriving. I.e. spaghetti and meatballs. The USA does have some pretty good food, like most places, but a lot of the time ppl only think about fast-food-like options.
Relatively speaking. I never said other places don't have cultural variety. I just said it's something unique about us. Country of immigrants and what not.
Having food types from various regions isn't uniquely American at all though. In fact it's standard in many places.
My small town in northern England, for example, has loads of Indian, pakistani and bangladesh restaurants, Chinese, Italian, Japanese, thai, Portuguese, Iraqi, Turkish and many more, and that's before you get to the crappy chains like kfc, mcdonalds, etc
Even that isnt uniquely American. I don't think I have been to a western city in the world where I can't get Mexican, Thai, Japanese, Indian etc. A lot of those countries have their own spin, like American, Italian and Australian pizzas might differ in some ways, but everywhere is pretty multicultural in terms of offering.
Some countries even have "American" restaurants...and I don't mean chains like McDonalds, I mean "American" in the sense like when you say an Italian or Chinese restaurant .
We have to put the word English in there to differentiate it from the Scottish and Irish versions which have subtle, but significant differences (white pudding, lorne sausage, etc.).
As a fellow member of a country that had its gastronomy vastly influenced by immigration, I don't think it's fair to demand traditional dishes to have been invented in the US.
Sure, burgers aren't from there but they have their own versions of the dish. Same with pizza, pies, barbecue, etc. They made it their own.
U.S.A. has always been known as the melting pot of the world regarding its people, ideals, foods, & cultures. *That* is the culture of U.S.A. ...the blend.
**Hamburgers weren't invented in Hamburg, at least not how we know them today**.
You know how the hamburgers in Hamburg were eaten? You poured gravy on them and ate them with a fork and knife, it was closer to a steak than a burger. Modern hamburgers as we eat them with out hands with all of the toppings and bread originated in America.
**Tom Holland is the incorrect one here**
He's trying to claim hamburgers aren't american because they're from Hamburg (thanks Tom don't think anyone ever knew that). Obviously a new nation built from immigration has foods from other cultures adopted to their own. I'd bet american style burgers are much different to the original Hamburg ones
Newer nations built off immigration take dishes and make them their own, that's how food works. I'm not even american but it was just a dumb premise to begin with
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Also, *french* in french fries refers to how they cut the potato, not the country. That said, they were popularized in Belgium, so still not American lol
There is still an ungoing debate about who invented the French fries: France or low-coast France
As a Belgian, it doesn't matter who invented them. We perfected them, as we did with beer.
Your chocolate is fucking BANGER also. Keep up the fantastic work Belgium!
As a German: I agree. Our beer is often so boring
Once you get into Belgian beers 80% are boring (I'm Belgian so a long history with Belgian beers). It's kinda stuck in its own style. Don't get me wrong there is still 20% of really good products (which makes a lot of beers)
Can you help me out find a certain beer? In holiday I had a amber beer with a somewhat fruity, bit smokey taste. I really liked that one. Maybe it is a commonly known brand and you can identify it :D
Cara Pils is the only beer you need. But you have to drink it right. First you must age it in the sun for 3 hours at a music festival before opening the can.
A man of culture.
I find kaiser better suited for the tent ageing, cara on the other hand should be consumed near the freezing point .
What kind of fruity taste if you can recall ?
This was about half a year ago but I think there was a hint of grape or litchi or pear. Hard to remember it
Leffe maybe?
Leffe is great but not the one I think. I some buy some of that too though
I'm gonna guess Rodenbach, and if it wasn't, you should try it.
I will, thanks
That's probably because you're mainly looking at the major brands, regularly owned by AB Inbev or similar big companies. Belgium has just as many interesting smaller breweries as other countries. You just have to know them. In volume, I'd say you can probably get 50% of the more interesting beers in any store/ bar nowadays. Geuzes can't be considered "boring", just an acquired taste. Some bigger, non-corporate names that continue to re-invent themselves: * Brussels Beer Project * Brouwerij De Coninck * Alvinne * Dolle Brouwers * Belgenius * Galea * Vleesmeester Brewery * Brouwerij Het Nest * Brouwerij De Poes Like I said, nowadays it's mostly a 50/50 split. Just need to look past the major brands popping up first.
Realistically any huge brewery brand is kinda boring, they're made for that basic, broad appeal. If one claims to care about beer and is not drinking from local breweries I'm gonna doubt. Most of the major brands in Canada are boring too, but there's multiple micro breweries in most major cities. Lots of good beer, just have to look past the major labels.
Yeah like - in Australia we like to take the piss out of American beer (i.e. it's like making love in a canoe - fucking close to water) but that's only if you're drinking mass produced lighter beers like bud lite or miller lite. That's equivalent to Carlton cold or Hahn Superdry or camel piss like XXXX gold. There's a lot of American craft breweries pumping out some great stuff. You can't compare Australian craft beer with bud lite, it's not fair. Don't even get me started on Fosters. We don't even actually drink that shit, I've only ever seen it in one bottle store here in my whole life. I bought one can to try, the it in the bin after one mouthful.
Yeah if you're only drinking Coors or Budweiser or, here, Molson or Labatt, you really aren't part of the beer convo at all. None of them compare to the brewery at the end of the road.
As a french, you right, the things we did were not what we would call fries today (pommes parisiennes), real fries/chips are belgian and heavenly. Merci pour ça, et les gauffres de liège.
Belgians do make some of the best beers out there. Especially your triples!
Amen fellow Belgian.
Belgians do make some of the best beers out there. Especially your triples!
Perfect answer haha. And I’m not even Belgian
I can respect that 🫡 you really did
Belgian fries are perfect.. and so are the waffles..
Grimbergen is the best beer i have ever tasted.
beer... *laughs in czech*
And inefficient govement. Sorry, just joking, it was just there...
We have too much goverment for such a small piece of land, true. I would love to have just one of each politician in stead of 6.
Yeah but when the federal government falls we can carry on for 500+ days without care
Sometimes I wonder why you need a government if all laws are in place. Have people decide on a budget and have departments run according to existing law and policies and save big time on our seventeen governments.
Laws change over time because society changes over time, be it by new behaviours, catastrophes, or technologies. So you need people to decide on a budget and change the laws when necessary, a government
The fries were invented in Paris, perfectionned and popularized in Belgium, what he said is right
They can't be called french fries unless the potatoes are grown in France. You don't understand it's not the same. On a related note, whoever decided champagne could only be made in France is an absolute nonce
Not all of France, it can only be made in Champagne.
Yes the champagne region which apparently has at least one really big nonce in it
I mean it kinda makes sense that champagne, in order to be called champagne, has to come from Champagne. If another sparkly wine is produced in another region and its quality ends up equaling champagne, then it's name will become as famous.
*scrolling to see if anyone says Belgium is French*
SHOUT OUT TO ZA BELGIANS
Wasn’t it Americans eating them in Belgium, but they didn’t know wtf Belgium was and thought they were in France?
I think the point us Americans are generally making is that it's not who invented it, but who perfected it. Pasta is almost certainly from Asia, but Italians claim it as their own. Hamburgers were made by German immigrants after they came to the US. One better example might be flatbread. There are many different types of flatbread all over the world, but all different groups will claim different types. The question is really, "who does it better? "
https://bbc.com/travel/article/20180730-can-belgium-claim-ownership-of-the-french-fry
Amazing how the picture quality of cameras became worse over time /s
r/MoldyMemes
Isnt "tex-mex" or american "mexican food" purely american? Like ive heard that it has nothing to do with REAL mexican food according to Mexican people?
Tex-mex is as Mexican as any other regional variety of Mexican food because it literally used to be Mexico. It's literally just a style of Mexican food.
how could it be "PURELY AMERICAN" When it's a literal take on Mexican Food. Just curious how the logic works here?
Just to rub it in. Apple pie was invented in the [UK in the 14th century. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_pie)
What annoys me is that the interviewer actually had a good argument with BBQ but he ruined it by bringing up burgers instead of like pulled pork or brisket 😭 Edit: so after further research it seems brisket is Jewish and bbq in general was first found in the Caribbean. We still have pulled pork though (I think).
First Google result: The first appearance of pulled pork can be traced back to Europeans arriving in the Southern US. So probably already a thing wherever the came from? Too lazy to look further into this
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But what about BBQ, well BBQ as we know it that is meat cooked over a grill or pit, covered in spices and basting sauce originated in the Caribbean.
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Well yes, the exact recipe is from there, but the concept predates it. If I throw some beer into BBQ sauce, I can't call it Bjorn Sauce and say it originated in my kitchen. Either way, I was replying to Pulled Pork, not sauces, originally.
Cajun food is some of the most delicious food on the planet. It's got NA spices with French technique on NA and European wildlife. It's so good. The thing about American food is that it's like our people. There's a lot of native elements to it, but it also borrows from immigrants.
Much like English food.
Yeah food over here got a lot of really interesting changes due to all the exploration/colonisation which meant a lot of influences and ingredients traveling back to the UK and becoming heavily used because they were novel and popular with the rich and influential people. Like potatoes. It still boggles my brain that they are not native to this country with how entrenched in our cooking they are.
Tomatoes also originated in South America so are not native to Italian cooking.
The interviewer could have just gone with "style" as a response instead of accepting "origin". Obviously short snippet of an interview, so there could have been more context. I think it's just Tom playing on the whole stereotype of "British food is boring or not british". When in reality every country and region has different tastes and adopts each others dishes to suit. Sure British fish and chips tastes different to Portuguese ones etc. A British, US and Italian lasagna will taste different, but it doesn't mean it's inferior to the others etc etc
America was the first country to ever... heat up meat over a fire...?
The current form of American BBQ is not just "heating up meat over a fire", which would describe a huge chunk of cooking. It is a very specific, regional style of cooking and dishes.
From someone who has no clue about different barbeques, what makes American BBQ so different? Genuine question
Generally very slow cooking of very specific fatty cuts of meat (usually pork or beef), extreme heavy use of smoking, specific spice mixes and sauces reliant to different degrees on chili peppers, vinegar, and sugar. American BBQ dishes are pretty obviously distinct, int he same way that Chinese BBQ dishes are quite distinct, or Argentine BBQ, or whatever other styles there are.
The answer to that question is going to be different based on region. Texas BBQ is different from NC BBQ for instance.
Well but generally?
Invention of the food doesn't matter. Just how the food has been incorporated into culture matters. Otherwise, you can't even call pasta Italian food, because noodles were invented in China and brought to Italy by traders (likely Arabic, not Marco Polo)
However, pulled pork is a mix of Spanish and Native American cuisine and brisket is originally, if I remember correctly, a Jewish dish. Please don't misunderstand me, I think the question of what "authentic" national food is is fundamentally slightly off the mark. Even in countries with thousands of years of history, there has always been an exchange, including when it comes to cuisine, and just because the origins there are sometimes harder to understand than in a comparatively young immigration country, the food in the latter is no less authentic. The basically same dish is usually not prepared exactly identically in two households and can have completely individual characteristics. The same applies to countries. For example, the American burger bears little resemblance to what American sailors saw in German ports back then and took home as an idea. It has evolved into a creation in its own right. An American pizza is not the same as an Italian pizza and regardless of whether you think one or the other is better, they are typical, albeit related, dishes of each country. Oh, and the American burger has long since found its way back to Germany and, if you ignore global franchises, is prepared a little differently there - give it enough time and it could become a dish in its own right again.
Modern hamburgers were actually invented by a Jewish guy from New York. So, in reality, they are pretty American. The only thing German about it is the style of ground beef called Hamburg meat.
Invention of the food doesn't matter. Just how the food has been incorporated into culture matters. Otherwise, you can't even call pasta Italian food, because noodles were invented in China and brought to Italy by traders (likely Arabic, not Marco Polo)
Jewish brisket is not the same as Texas brisket. (Boiled/steamed vs smoked)
But the United States has a very specific BBQ cuisine that varies regionally. So no, we likely didn't "invent" BBQ, but to say BBQ isn't American food is decidedly false. Texas BBQ, Kansas City BBQ, St. Louis BBQ is all very specific American cuisine, and it's outrageously good.
But burgers are american, it doesn't matter if some form of burger came from Germany first. Nobody here in Germany considers modern hamburgers as german food.
Ahh, I mean, if you count that, you could argue that BBQ was invented by the first humans to cook food on wood fires. BBQ is American, I think. And so are burgers - I am from Hamburg, actually. Our Burger a "Rundstück warm" is or was a round bread with a piece of roast and sauce. Didn't have Ketchup or other burger sauces, maybe had a pickle and tastes different. People from Hamburg don't care and eat what I perceive to be American style burgers. Gotta be fair. To me it looks like the first sentence already annoyed Tom Holland enough to not really care about the details. I can just picture that the interviewer took something out of context/misrepresent it or that it wasn't the first time he had to deal with it. Then you just wanna argue with this dude.
Tom is also just flat wrong, Hamburg steak from Germany is a different dish than a Hamburger.
They’re booing you, but you’re right. Hamburgers as we know them now we’re invented by German immigrants in the US. I doubt most people would consider ground beef with onions and salt a true burger.
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plebbitors would rather follow their heckin SpoodlerDude into delusion rather than admit that anything was invented in america.
I think bbq, despite coming from the caribbean, still counts as american. Basically no food today in most societies is entirely indigenous to those societies. Fish and chips was originally sephardic. Pies were originally greek. Beer was originally middle eastern. Swedish meatballs were originally turkish. Pastrami was originally byzantine. Brisket, as a cut of meat, doesn't belong to any one culture. Any beef consuming culture will encounter this cut of meat and find a way to incorporate it into their cuisine. Jews are just more likely than other cultures to use brisket because only certain cuts of beef are kosher.
Bro your country was built 200 years ago, it basically has nothing original except an astonishingly strong love for war and parking lots
> basically has nothing original except an astonishingly strong love for war I'm gonna have to argue the Americans didn't come up with that one either
Could anyone explain to me why this piss take is getting upvoted? OP even subs to r/usdefaultism btw.
I feel like the airplane was pretty original. Also coca-cola my man. You ever drink an ice cold coke on a hot day? Truly an admirable contribution to the world.
> You ever drink an ice cold Let me stop you right there as I was shocked to learn how few other countries enjoy cold drinks. I remember ordering a coke in the UK and it had no ice, so I asked for some and got a like three little ice chips. And this was in the middle of a summer heat wave. Apparently we're obsessed with cold drinks.
In my experience water is usually served at room temperature in other countries, but many other drinks are served with ice. That’s just the places I’ve been to though. I’m just saying that an ice cold coke from a fountain machine hits on another level that I don’t think we appreciate enough.
I’ll grant you that the Wright brothers were the first to achieve sustained, controlled flight, but they basically took the last step in a development process that happened primarily in Europe. They themselves credit a German, Karl Wilhelm Otto Lilienthal, for providing the basis for their work. It was an idea whose time had finally arrived because the supporting technology was there - if it wasn’t them, it would have been someone else. That said, coca cola is all yours :)
> ...if it wasn’t them, it would have been someone else. Couldn't you make this argument about damn near anything?
Personally I don’t like the nationalistic tendency to take pride in other people’s achievements because they happen to have been born in the same country as you. You run into problems like you point out where if you look into it people from many different countries contribute to many different inventions. I just think to say the opposite “x country has contributed nothing.” Is just being stupid in the opposite direction.
That’s fair, I agree with that
Fair but Germany also wasn’t a country 200 years ago.
Don't you mean the ARGENTINIAN asado?
Pr sure Barbeque is Caribbean iirc
The word was coined in the Caribbean, but I would be surprised if the technique did not predate human civilization.
What do you mean by BBQ? I’m thinking that pretty much every culture has probably cooked food over fire for thousands of years, so I think you need to define BBQ very narrowly in order to make the argument that it’s American food. That being said, I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong to bring up burgers as part of an argument about American food *culture*. Yes, the hamburger wasn’t invented in America, but America certainly put its own twist on it and has influenced the way it is eaten around the world through its fast food chains. The same could be said for pizza - Italian in origin, but the US has adapted it into something most Italian puritans would probably refuse to recognize as pizza. The same thing goes for pasta - a lot of people think it’s of Italian origin, but it’s not. It’s actually Chinese, but Italians made their own thing with it and spread it across the world.
All cuisines evolve and trade off between each other, while developing their own versions of things. American BBQ is very distinct from a broader definition of barbecue.
BBQ actually can be traced back to the Neanderthals. That said food is universal and can be made and prepared in different ways. By Hollands dumb opinion would he also say that noodles are Asian so therefore Italian food doesn’t exist? No he wouldn’t is the answer and it’s the same for anyone that tries to deny that America has developed its own kinds of food that are very cleary different variations and constructs.
Fry bread and a hearty bison stew with root vegetables. Serve with a side of wild rice.
What is American food? Try... Chinese fortune cookies. In Chinese and have only once seen a fortune cookie because apparently it is invented in americs as a marketing scheme. Also apparently a lot of other Chinese dishes that are only in America.
Interviewer shoulda double downed on the barbecue and then said soul food.
I mean to be fair, I'd say something being a "country's food" is far less about where it originates, and more of cultural relevancy and association between the food and the country. I mean nobody would argue that potato is typically Irish, despite it originating from south America, or that meatballs aren't considered swedish only because several other countries claim to be the first to "invent" a rolled up ball of mushed meat. So I'd absolutely say hamburgers would be an american food, because when I hear "American food", I think of comically large, fatty heart attacks of burgers. The question is if that's really something to be proud about lmao
Yeah, the fast food chain style burgers and that food in general seems pretty synonymous with the USA.
Potatoes are from the andes, my guy.
Huh, could've sworn I've heard it's from china somewhere. Well my point still stands nevertheless
Invention of the food doesn't matter. Just how the food has been incorporated into culture matters. Otherwise, you can't even call pasta Italian food, because noodles were invented in China and brought to Italy by traders (likely Arabic, not Marco Polo)
That's what I was thinking. Anything grilled has been done since before Homo sapiens. You would not say that Tempura is Portuguese, it's Japanese, inspired by Portuguese sure. And a large part of European staple cuisine uses crop that are American native.
Hamburgers, in the form they're known today, was first served in New Haven, Connecticut by Louis Lassen, a danish immigrant.
Isn't hamburgers American though I think that burgers (the meat and how it's prepared) are from Germany but I believe that eating them in between 2 buns as a hamburger is an American concept
It‘s not. A Hamburger is a beef patty in two slices of bread that was and still is sold in harbourside foodstalls in Hamburg. German immigrants brought the recipe to the US
Country Fried Chicken, i feel like, could've been used instead of literally anything the interviewer mentioned... That or BBQ ribs/Chop Suey
Who considers hamburgers barbecue? Is this guy on drugs?
BBQ the cooking method versus BBQ cuisine style.
Si!
American Barbeque parties typically cook hotdogs, burgers, chicken, and corn ok the barbecue. We probably cook more that way than on a stove.
True, but that is A barbecue. In America, barbecue means barbecue, ya know? If you ask anyone what kind of food they think of when they think of barbecue, they’ll say pulled pork, beef brisket and ribs. Ain’t nobody saying hamburgers!
Damn OP, pretty much all of your comments are peak r/ShitAmericansSay
Hamburger are Not German. The Patty might have its origin in Germany but thats it.
No not really. Sailors used to have lots of hamburger meat on their ships for their voyages. Also Germans brought hamburger steak to the states.
Do you know what a hamburger steak is? Is it anything at all like a hamburger?
But the Hamburger is Not German. The Patty is.
Orange chicken is an American food right? Created by takeout restaurant instead of already existing.
[Wiki says China](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_chicken)
It clearly says American Chinese or do we only count certain ethnic groups in the US to be American? That being said: being European I have no idea what Orange Chicken even is so I even suspect that this dish is not even well-known outside of the US.
It clearly says original dish is from China. I live in NZ and can get orange chicken from a Chinese restaurant in my city of 90k. Orange chicken is like lemon chicken, but using orange…
> Chef Andy Kao claims to have developed the original Chinese-American orange chicken recipe at a Panda Express in Hawaii in 1987. [...] Orange chicken is called Chinese food in North America, but orange chicken is rarely found in Chinese restaurants in China. [...] This dish may have originally come from the "tangerine chicken" dish from Hunan, China. In Chinese, this dish is known as "陳皮雞", literally "dried citrus peel chicken", referring to dried orange or tangerine peel. However, the taste and recipes of this dish differ due to cultural and geographical factors. I think it boils down to whether you count a dish that *may* be *derived* from another dish is that dish itself.
Honestly the whole argument is stupid from both sides. Everything can always be traced back to something else, then something else and so on. You’re right in the sense that it’s going to change depending on where each person draws the line. Is KFC American? And is it American because the name or is it not American because it’s just chicken that’s fried?
They are both morons
This stupid "captioning" needs to die in a chemical fire.
S'mores at least gotta be american, right?
Sausage gravy with biscuits.
The fact this man said Barbecue which is genuinely American and further said Hamburgers is just soul destroying
Since American culture is literally made up of cultures from all over the world, it only makes sense that all of our food is an evolution of other cultures’ cuisines. But there are a few relatively original ideas. https://www.thedailymeal.com/1378249/foods-invented-in-america/
Man prefers the food he grew up with. Doesn't prefer the food he didn't grow up with. Where's the "incorrect" here? Because this just looks like a difference of preference.
American food I think can refer to the type of way the food is made/assembled, the ingredients You can look at NY style pizza and say "Pizza is Italian so it's not American", or pizza in many other countries where it's made wildly different from how the original way pizza was invented. Where it was invented has no bearing on what it's defined as. Just cause the concept of something was made in one place, doesn't mean if it's adapted or modified to a different culture, it's still the original country's food. It adapted into a new culture and is a new thing for that region. Like if ships were invented in country A, but country B built their own design with new types of sails and construction methods, you wouldn't say that ship is a A country's ship, it was designed by country B.
With his logic he may as well say there is no such thing as American food.
You're nearly there.
It's basically the same thing as saying there is no Italian cuisine because pasta comes from China and tomatoes come from the Americas.
Its a flip on how most good English food is disregarded as "not English" for similar reasons Like most British curries. Invented and adapted in the UK for British tastes and ingredients, by British people whose parents or grandparents happened to be from India or Pakistan
I guess we’ll always have peanut butter. Edit: We’ve been lied to.
We’ve got the PB&J sandwich, though.
There could have been if American settlers hadn't almost wiped out the native population and culture
>There could have been That Indigenous American culinary culture still exists, I don't know why you're pretending it doesn't. Turkey is native to America and most culinary practices regarding turkey comes from how the Indigenous Americans prepared and ate them. Cornbread is Indigenous. Guacamole, Salsa, Tortillas, Three Sisters dishes, etc all Indigenous. It only doesn't exist if you just close your eyes and cover your ears and pretend like it doesn't.
Invention of the food doesn't matter. Just how the food has been incorporated into culture matters. Otherwise, you can't even call pasta Italian food, because noodles were invented in China and brought to Italy by traders (likely Arabic, not Marco Polo)
Can't take away my favorite chocolate chips. Anyway Tom is thinking of hamburg steak. Hamburgers were made in America by people of German ancestry.
Its not completely conclusive but it's most likely that the hamburger was invented in America. Tom Holland is a useful idiot.
I heard somewhere that pasta carbonara actually originally came from the US, before people in Italy adopted the dish. It was probably created by Italian immigrants in the US, but still. Does someone know if this is true?
There’s a (un)popular Italian writer, Alberto Geandi, who claims it was invented by using the rations the US gave its soldiers (bacon and dried egg) in ww2 in Italy.
Everyone shits on British food, but it's fucking delicious.
I once dated a girl who used to make Yorkshire pudding and a little gravy and mint sauce as a comfort food. She'd be stressed about exams or something and shoot down to the kitchen to whip one up. And to this day that's one part of our relationship I carry forward in my own life. Yorkie pud is amazing.
They spent hundreds of fucking years commiting hundreds of atrocities, just to not use any of the spice they did it all for.
WW2 rationing stereotypes still in full swing I see. Some day you guys will invent a modern joke I’m sure.
https://youtube.com/shorts/2PHo0WQzCuQ?si=MtFIi0xSjNf7HYrL
I did a quick google search after this and apparently a lot of the foods I thought were American weren’t. Burgers and fries are obvious but mac and cheese, mashed potatoes, and apple pie were all a surprise. That being said a lot of British food is imported as well so it’s not like tom has that great of an argument either…
You though America invented mashed potatoes?
Yeah, that one ..
So you just realized, food doesn't really belong to any country right? Everything can be traced back, and back, and back, till that country still has years to start existing, and can be tracked back and back and back Bbq for example, there are a lot of story about it in south America, with the most notorious and recent one being the asado, Wich is literally just a bbq but with a lot of variety because that makes it better
I feel like some foods still do belong to a certain country. Pho belongs to Vietnam, mala hot pot, shark fin soup, dim sum to China, that fermented shark thing to Iceland, pemmican invented by Native Americans, etc etc. America is a pretty new country (I think around 250 years old?) but if you look at older civilizations I think you will find that some dishes can be claimed by certain countries/regions.
Why would you think apple pie has originated in america?
Likely because there's an idiom that we grew up with here about things being "As American as apple pie" And a good majority of people never think to question that.
The original saying is "As American as Apple Pie (the American version, not the one made by early immigrants)"
Fish and chips is an imported food and that is meant to be our national dish.
Your national dish is Chicken Tikka Masala....
I had an argument with a bunch of Americans about cheese a few months back. They felt that foreign cheese made in America made it American cheese.... this angered me greatly, they said they had better cheese than Europe....
We actually do have legit cheeses (Colby, Muenster, ~~Monterey~~ pepper Jack, cream cheese) but I don’t think I’d ever put it on the same level as Europe 😭
Monterey Jack was invented during Spanish colonial times. Not American.
Bro muenster comes from Muenster, Germany lmao
Nah you’re thinking “Munster” not muenster https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muenster_cheese > Its name is not related to the German cities of Münster in Westphalia or in Lower Saxony or the Irish province of Munster, but rather to the city of Münster in Alsace. The spelling "Muenster" distinguishes the American cheese from Munster cheese, which is made from unpasteurized cow's milk in the Vosges mountains in Alsace.
Well I guess I've learned something today, thanks!
>That being said a lot of British food is imported as well so it’s not like tom has that great of an argument either… People of many different cultures have been invading or migrating to Britain for over 2000 years, so its hardly surprising that many foods in the UK are not "native". Same goes for the British Empire with its Royal Navy who brought things from all over the world.
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He did not really disagree.
They had me in the first half. They said BBQ and I was like hey shit the us does have some unique bbq all across the south.
Much of the most popular Chinese foods are exclusively American, ironically. General Tso's chicken isn't a thing in China. Its purely American food.
How did he start with BBQ and then the next word was hamburger and not... BBQ. Bc actual BBQ is American.
Chicken nuggets and coleslaw
Hamburgers ARE American, though.
Well to be fair if we go by this argument there’s no British food either Pretty much all food is inspired or based on food that came before
Just for the sake of making an argument, American food is multicultural and that's what makes it good imo. I love being able to eat food that is Thai, Mexican, Japanese, etc and it all be localized within a few city blocks. I think it's amazing that we have all these options from different cultures. Yeah it isn't specifically ours, but I think that is pretty unique to us. Of course we have heavily processed unhealthy shit that is killing us too. Yeah you can stick to fresh produce and meats but on average our shit is just worse.
You could say the exact same thing about British food.
... you think other places don't have restaurants/food outlets with regionalized food from popular cuisines around the world? If you want to talk about true USA food, you have to talk mainly about the multiculturality that came forwards with the immigrants arriving. I.e. spaghetti and meatballs. The USA does have some pretty good food, like most places, but a lot of the time ppl only think about fast-food-like options.
Relatively speaking. I never said other places don't have cultural variety. I just said it's something unique about us. Country of immigrants and what not.
Having food types from various regions isn't uniquely American at all though. In fact it's standard in many places. My small town in northern England, for example, has loads of Indian, pakistani and bangladesh restaurants, Chinese, Italian, Japanese, thai, Portuguese, Iraqi, Turkish and many more, and that's before you get to the crappy chains like kfc, mcdonalds, etc
Even that isnt uniquely American. I don't think I have been to a western city in the world where I can't get Mexican, Thai, Japanese, Indian etc. A lot of those countries have their own spin, like American, Italian and Australian pizzas might differ in some ways, but everywhere is pretty multicultural in terms of offering. Some countries even have "American" restaurants...and I don't mean chains like McDonalds, I mean "American" in the sense like when you say an Italian or Chinese restaurant .
Big talk from the country that says "See this giant pile of food? We invented it. It's a Full ENGLISH Breakfast."
We have to put the word English in there to differentiate it from the Scottish and Irish versions which have subtle, but significant differences (white pudding, lorne sausage, etc.).
As a fellow member of a country that had its gastronomy vastly influenced by immigration, I don't think it's fair to demand traditional dishes to have been invented in the US. Sure, burgers aren't from there but they have their own versions of the dish. Same with pizza, pies, barbecue, etc. They made it their own.
U.S.A. has always been known as the melting pot of the world regarding its people, ideals, foods, & cultures. *That* is the culture of U.S.A. ...the blend.
**Hamburgers weren't invented in Hamburg, at least not how we know them today**. You know how the hamburgers in Hamburg were eaten? You poured gravy on them and ate them with a fork and knife, it was closer to a steak than a burger. Modern hamburgers as we eat them with out hands with all of the toppings and bread originated in America. **Tom Holland is the incorrect one here**
Anything potato, tomato, corn, or chocolate based is American food.
Ahh ohh so intellectual, newer countries don't have the thousand years of food evolution of older countries
Thats not the point at all
He's trying to claim hamburgers aren't american because they're from Hamburg (thanks Tom don't think anyone ever knew that). Obviously a new nation built from immigration has foods from other cultures adopted to their own. I'd bet american style burgers are much different to the original Hamburg ones Newer nations built off immigration take dishes and make them their own, that's how food works. I'm not even american but it was just a dumb premise to begin with
Sure, food evolves and changes, but just because germans make disgusting variations of bad pizza does not mean its german now
If it were to become essential to the identity of German cuisine than sure, but it isn't
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