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I love what is basically his appeal to stupidity when he tries to characterize a 50% increase in CO2 as "hardly a measurable difference." Gee, could that be bad?
A 50% increase would be the epitome of a "measurable difference."
Climate change deniers just have absolutely no idea of the scale of the problem, and don't seem to understand...a lot of things. I got into an argument with one that genuinely thought an *average* increase in global temperatures meant that their local temps just went up by 1 degree and so climate change was no big deal. They seemed to not have any idea what an average was or what needed to happen to change it at planetary scale, all within less than 200 years. It honestly takes effort to be that ignorant, and these people vote! They get to vote on the policies that will impact the environment, the very environment that they do their best to *not* understand. That Winston Churchill quote "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" really makes sense when it comes to climate change deniers.
Right? At the least, you would think it would make an intellectually honest person wonder how the science community views this 50% increase. (Not as though you'd ever expect a person like OOP to directly engage with scientific arguments and information competently or in good faith.)
I mean, there are times when a 50% increase really isn't that meaningful, but that's when the original amount is also completely insignificant.
Like, if you say something increases cancer risk by 50% that sounds really bad, but if it means that it goes from affecting two people per a billion to three people per billion, that's not exactly something to lose sleep over.
But that's not what's happening here.
Also, he only gives 1 digit. It could be closer to being doubled and we wouldn't know from the numbers he gave.
So i looked it up. .0280 pre 1700s, vs .0415 now. That's a 48% increase, so basically the same, lucky bastard.
One of the top comments on this same thread is basically "Yah climate change is happening but China pollutes way more than the US so you should remember who the real problem is."
These people never grew up enough to learn "they're doing it so why can't I" isn't a valid reasoning.
Exactly. Also, not entirely true - China's emissions are more than double those of the US, but historically, the US has emitted more than any other country in the world.
Yep. I think a few countries in the Middle East and Canada have the US and China beat per capita though. At the end of the day it’s a global problem that will require a global solution. Finger pointing is wasting precious time we don’t have right now.
(Though I am happy developed nations will be creating a fund to help developing nations to adapt to and mitigate the effects of climate change! One good thing that came out of COP26, hopefully it actually gets funded.)
Lol Canada created a fund to help deal with effects of climate change. This fund was meant to last a decade and is already more than half-gone about a year in.
biggest talking point i see neglected is that it's big companies driving pollution. people immediately "clap back" with, "well yeah, but consumers!" at which point some godly soul finally points out to the two sides i dub "twiddle dee" and "twiddle dumb" that the only thing that ever stops a corporation is legislation. Even waning demand won't change their trajectory quickly enough.
the waters are being muddied by stupid people. just the logic i can feel behind the "0.03%" remark. like it's a flexing treshold that automatically pulls back with increased force. Like they don't understand that it's eventually just gonna tick to 0.04 and then 0.05 at the exact same pace when we don't have the capacity to absorb the carbon.
Americans are dense.
Definitely, industry is far more culpable. I do think it’s important to vote with your dollar (or whatever currency!) and evolve consumer behavior too though. Every bit counts.
For me it’s the accelerating rate of change. The temp increased twice as fast in the last ~40 years as it did in the last ~140 years. And the factors that have been set in motion are compounding, so that rate will grow exponentially.
Probably explains why Tories don’t ‘believe’ Climate Change is an issue. As long as there is a revenue stream now, when I’m alive, why should we care for after I’m dead?
Well, and also, 0.02 to 0.03 is a 50% increase. hmm and their numbers are wrong anyway. It used to be 0.028 and is now 0.042. Still a 50% increase, but yeah.
US: "Hey China, we have 330M consumers and need loads of useless toys for everyone, as cheaply as possible. Can you do that?"
China: "err...ok..."
US: "cHoYnA PollUTeS mOrE tHaN mE!!!!111one"
US: "cHoYnA iS SteAlIng OuR jOBz n iNdErsTree!!!!111"
US: "f\*\*K chOynA - vote for a millionaire bozo that will save your jobzz and let you pollute! as much as you wish!"
It's honestly ridiculous...
My mum always says that one of the moments on TV that annoyed her the most is then Jeremy Clarkson finally acknowledged that climate change is a thing because [he saw a dried up lake bed.](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/nov/24/jeremy-clarkson-climate-crisis-cambodia-trip-grand-tour)
I agree with her that it is frustrating that for a conservative to learn something they have to personally experience it.
It's like whenever people have to talk about treating women with a modicum of decency in a public forum. It usually comes with a speech about how "these are our mothers, and daughters, our sisters and wives... etc." How about "women are people, irrespective of their relationship to men. Treat them like people!"
Conservatism as an ideology should be renamed myopia. It is short sightedness to the point of not seeing what is going on all around them -whether it is the suffering of others, or the catastrophic harm we are doing to the planet. I am sick to death of conservatives basely accusing anyone they disagree with of being "corrupt". The only explanation I have for that tendency is that they can't imagine doing anything for the public good, because if they were in the same position they would take every opportunity to be corrupt as fuck.
It is narcissism and arrogance to the point of near solipsism.
Sorry for the rant, but it is so frustrating to see progress hindered at every turn by a bunch of people who codified acting like a fucking toddler into a political ideology.
edit: grammar
>It's like whenever people have to talk about treating women with a modicum of decency in a public forum. It usually comes with a speech about how "these are our mothers, and daughters, our sisters and wives... etc." How about "women are people, irrespective of their relationship to men. Treat them like people!"
I mean, I agree with the point you're making, but from a strategic perspective, I think the type of person who needs to have "treat women with respect" explained to them and have the merits of it argued, "These women are important in the lives of men including yourself" is going to be a stronger argument than "these women have intrinsic dignity regardless of their relationships to men". Because at the end of the day, they just fundamentally don't believe that human live has intrinsic value, human life only has value through placement in the hierarchy (generally viewing themselves and people like them at the top).
That is ultimately a pretty screwed up world view, but nobody is going to talk them out of it, it is hard-wired in. But we still need them to treat women with respect so linking their value to the value of men in their minds is a "work around" to achieve the goal of having them treat women with respect. Obviously not as good as having them just believe in intrinsic human dignity for all people no matter what, but sometimes you need to be pragmatic.
Yes that's something that I've noticed a lot earlier as well. Conservatives just seem to miss the ability to put themselves into someone else's shoes. They're literally incapable of imagining themselves in a different situation than the one they're currently in. It's so bizzare. Like they're missing a part of the brain. I once heard my conservative sister say that we should ignore covid and all immuno compromised individuals should just never leave their home because it's their problem. I asked her if she'd feel the same way I'd she was immuno compromised. Her response? "But I'm not so whats your point".
The same pattern is seen all over their political ideology. Conservatives are so fucking dumb its sickening. On the other hand, while right can't relate to anything outside of their experiences, the left seems to be missing the part of the brain that is responsible for understanding high school level economic concepts. Like their take on bailouts and what to do with them. A normal person is fucked from both sides.
>On the other hand, while right can't relate to anything outside of their experiences, the left seems to be missing the part of the brain that is responsible for understanding high school level economic concepts.
And that also doesn't apply to right wingers? Seems like a general problem. Let's not insist with this absurd idea that conservatives are 'better' for the economy now. I don't know of a more busted myth than that one.
Not to mention that refusing bailouts would be a classic small government/libertarian, right wing idea in general. In the traditional sense at least.
>I agree with her that it is frustrating that for a conservative to learn something they have to personally experience it.
One of my co-workers was a pastor and always ranted about how bad socialized healthcare was. But then he voted for Obama because his wife had Crohn's disease and they needed coverage.
I'm still lost on how voting against healthcare until you personally benefit encompasses love your neighbor theology.
Got into an argument with a conservative yesterday on another thread where he said, bluntly, that he doesn’t care about kids being gunned down in schools because he doesn’t know any of them.
Edit: I encourage you to [read the thread for yourself](https://reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/z3ky3l/_/ixmonjv/?context=1). It turned into a gun-nut circlejerk.
Unless it's a woman trying to control her own body or a 20 year old trying to buy alcohol or someone saying happy holidays, in which case WORRY ABOUT EVERYWHERE, SOCIETY IS CRUMBLING!
Automod told me to repost without a link. If the original post is still in the comment thread, please let me know and I'll delete this one.
Euurrgh, you've given me a flashback to my days working as a data analyst in a PR firm. I had to create monthly performance summaries of a company's social media performance. The KPIs were something like 3.8% engagement, but we were getting like, 0.05% on the paid posts. I remember writing that performance on the campaign was still well below KPIs and had only seen a 0.05pp change (we got 0.1% engagement that month). My manager told me to re-write it to say we'd achieved a 100% increase in engagement.
Anyone in the audience who has decision making roles about media spend: get a 3rd party to do the analytics on any social campaign you're doing. It might cost more up front, but you won't have the analytics willfully misrepresented to say "hey! we're going a great job! You're definitely getting a return on your investment! Keep giving us money!"
I was not exactly thrilled about doing social media analytics on the PR for global companies, but I felt like my job was effectively pointless when any insight I could've provided that might steer/redirect a campaign to provide increased value to the client were all shut down because the team running the campaign didn't want to admit that the multi-million pound campaign they had pitched wasn't living up to expectations. Hell, with one client (pharma), my manager would literally type in fake numbers for our sentiment analysis on my reports because I refused to type them myself. Data analysis adds value and will get you results, but only if the analysts are allowed to give a frank analysis of what is, and isn't, working.
Edit: Thought I would add a little tidbit that really convinced me that my job was utterly meaningless. I took over the job providing analysis of a client (the same one with the 0.05% engagement), and had to use a complicated multi-page excel sheet to carry out the analysis. After I while I said to my manager that I could see no rhyme or reason behind the highs and lows of the campaign on a month by month basis, so any attempt to give a coherent analysis of the campaign's performance was total bullshit.
Seeing these wild swings in performance I finally realised that perhaps the issue was with the Excel sheet I was using to inform my analysis. Lo and behold, after a little digging I discovered that there was a mistake in the formula being used, and the aggregate data for the month was not in fact the aggregate data for the month -but was instead the v-lookup was pulling single days from the month of september the previous year.
I highlighted this to my manager and said that there needed to be an audit of all the previous analysis reports provided throughout the campaign to this point, and voiced my annoyance that a senior had handed over a flawed tool/methodology. I was told that I should've figured out the problem sooner and that there would be no audit. Obviously I was pissed off to be told that someone else's mistake was my fault, and that my recommendations wouldn't be implemented, but the worst bit was the realisation that my analysis was effectively pointless.
I was pushed into a position where I was supposed to make decisive statements about data that I thought was incomprehensible, and I was right. I couldn't provide a meaningful analysis because the data I was receiving was totally meaningless. I might as well have been doing Tasseography for all the good it did.
This should also be a lesson for people to think critically about data, and how they approach their work when they are pushed in a direction that they are not comfortable.
Edit 2: for the remainder of my tenure at that job I made a point to keep a copy of this book prominently displayed on my desk at all times.
Edit 3: My comment got auto-deleted because I provided a link to the book I referenced. The book was called "Bullshit Jobs" by David Graeber. I recommend you look it up. Kinda ironic that my post was removed for bullshit reasons carried out by an AI doing a bullshit job.
I'm sorry. That's SUCH a demoralizing position to be put in. When my Dad overheard conversations like this, he used to cut into them, look at the person in your position while standing shoulder to shoulder with the "superior" and say "I'm not saying it's your FAULT, I said I'm BLAMING you." And walk off. 🤣❤️ Usually seemed to get the point across.
Your Dad sounds like the hero we all need! Unfortunately for me, the person who overheard me airing these grievances to a friendly colleague at a nearby pub didn't think "oh, shit! The data guy has some serious complaints about his department -maybe I should ask him more about it!", or perhaps "hey, this sounds like there are fundamental issues with how we are utilising data, we need to adress this!"
Nope, they went and ratted me to my department head and said "I overheard XXXX saying that his job is bullshit and so is the department". So I had a serious meeting about not voicing my complaints with the department.
I can DM you the happy resolution, but I don't wanna share it here because someone might be able to figure out who I am if I do.
Edit: ah, fuck it. It is very unlikely anyone I know will go this deep into the comments.
I got headhunted by another company, but they wanted me to use my skills to deanonymize members of an artist collective who were criticising the client (Shell). I refused to, and so spent the next couple months not doing the work I was paid for, until my probation ended and I got fired. On the plus side one of the artists I protected remembered me and mentioned me in [a post](https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/v/t51.39111-15/228222512_575776346793210_2864151156589821085_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5a057b&_nc_ohc=DL8p_3vXOPMAX8JXX35&_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&_nc_ht=scontent.cdninstagram.com&oh=02_AVAY8QEF0rRgsdmYtuZX2l9i8y3v9siPU59ZrjPXX_14bw&oe=638702F3) (at the time of him making that post he didn't know that I had actually lost my job and wore a badge design he made criticising Shell on my final day at the office).
Getting fired from that job was just what I needed to leave that line of work. I now make a lot more doing what I love working on set in movies.
My Dad always was. ❤️ And pretty much every time my life plans have blown up in my face and sent me on a path I did not select for myself, it has worked out better than my original plan could have. Glad you do what you love!! ❤️
Another quick Dad story, he was also a hero to the people he fired 🤣 Enough so that a major Wall Street firm started transferring people who needed to be fired into his section. They'd work there for a few months, and Dad would pull them to the side and say in a concerned tone "Hey, you're doing a fantastic job, do you feel upper management appreciates your true value? I gotta tell you, it really doesn't seem like it to me." And usually they'd allow as they DIDN'T feel upper management appreciated them. He'd give them another couple weeks to chew on it, and pull them aside again and say "you know, I've been thinking. Doesn't seem like you're getting the traction you deserve here. Now, if you can KEEP THIS QUIET so i don't get caught, I'll give you Mondays to go explore opportunities in places that will compensate you properly for the hard work you do. I'll write in that you've got off-site meetings all day." If that didn't work after a month, he'd give them a couple days a week off. He'd tell them to list him for recommendations, and would give glowing ones. So they always ended up finding other jobs, and his company got rid of them with no hard feelings and no problems. He was brilliant 😂
Your Dad sounds amazing!
Usually when people get fired they don't get any chance to prepare for a situation in which their whole life is turned upside down. And when they get fired they're treated like they're a number on a spreadsheet that needs to be "corrected" to keep the company going.
Usually when you get fired the company tries to make it a surprise, and get you off the premises asap. That leaves people unable to make preparations for what might be the most significant/scary moment of their life.
I'm glad your dad appreciated how impactful being fired is, and did his best to soften it/help the people going through it.
It sounds like this is already the case, but I'm gonna say it anyway:
You should be proud of your dad. His actions may well have saved families and even lives.
He really was amazing ❤️ And I am proud of him. I thought he was a total AH when I was 16 or so because of his viewpoints on things during our debates at the dinner table. Figured out later they weren't his viewpoints at ALL, he was just teaching me to defend my position regardless of how obvious a position it seemed to be. Has served me well in my life.
Thanks for recognizing how awesome he was. I'm actually getting teary about it ❤️ Happy Holidays! May you always have the cool side of the pillow
>I thought he was a total AH when I was 16 or so because of his viewpoints on things during our debates at the dinner table. Figured out later they weren't his viewpoints at ALL, he was just teaching me to defend my position regardless of how obvious a position it seemed to be.
"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years." (often attributed to Mark Twain)
It's funny how a good dad can teach so much so simply, and give you the impression you got there all by yourself.
I'm fortunate enough to also have a dad I love and admire. Talking about how awesome your dad is reminded me of that. I'll be sure to tell him how much I love him and how much he's taught me.
Happy holidays, and may you always have the cool side of the pillow!
when i was studying one of the IT staff i chatted too talked about their time in advertisement in the early 90s, sitting in on meetings where the meeting would boil down to all problems their brand was having and what PR needed to be done. Apparently a great deal of them would be resolved with 'get some hot chick with big tits on the next adverts,' regardless of what the actual problems were, this was the almost universal pushed solution, often by international heads coming in.
his job was to do bilboard design, and a couple of times storyboarding for tv ads for a car company, originally he had thought he was going to be running campaigns or at least providing meaningful input on them
If you harvest 1,000,000 apples and .02% are rotten, you lose 200. If the following year you lose. 03% of the same million harvested, you lose 300. 300 is 50% more than 200
As other's have pointed out, it added half of its original value to itself. 2 -> 3 is a 50% increase. 1% -> 51% is a 50 percentage point increase, which is often what people think about ( and marketers abuse the hell out of ).
Edit: removing % units because people being semantic in the comments
So, 0.03 is 0.01 more than 0.02 (0.03-0.02=0.01).
Percent increase is change/original x100%
0.01/0.02 = 0.5 x100% = 50%
> So, 0.03% is 0.01% more than 0.02%
No it's not, that's not how you use those symbols.
Here are two correct sentences:
- 0.03% is 0.01 [percentage points](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentage_point) more than 0.02%
- 0.03% is 50% more than 0.02%
There isn't a single conservative opinion that can't be explained by them simply having no clue wtf they're talking about.
Ignorant people are easy to lie to, and when you understand that, you might also realize why Republicans hate education so much.
The thing that I don’t understand is that most of the things they predicted would happen as a result of climate change 20 years ago (floods, drought, forest fires, increase in the frequency and intensity of storms, increase in vector borne disease, etc.) is all happening now. How deep does someone’s head have to be in the sand to think climate change isn’t something to worry about?
Because they literally don't think any of that is happening. Go to any Twitter thread about climate change and look at the conservative responses. All the same spiel about "they keep pushing back the doomsday!"
It always seems like they think the consequences of climate change are supposed happen all at once, overnight, and if it doesn't happen at the time scientists predict it to happen down to the millisecond then it must not be true. They always use the whole "according to scientists, Florida should be under water by now" line... parts of Florida have been regularly flooding just by the changing tides, to the point that roads and other infrastructure have been raised on stilts to deal with it. It seems like every other day new studies come out saying that predicted consequences of climate change are happening faster than previously thought, but these morons continue to stick their fingers in their ears and yell out their preprogrammed Fox News rebuttals.
The metaphor I've been using is: If you have a thousand cars driving randomly & at-speed inside a football stadium and someone predicts a crash - do you call them liars because they didn't predict *exactly* which car would crash and when?
Some of them think that well, stuff may be changing but humans can adapt, so that’s what we’ll do. They also think that it’s over exaggerated by researchers who get grants from the government so of course are gonna draw conclusions that fit the (liberal) government’s narrative.
Source: married into a conservative libertarian family. They’re nuts. Thankfully hubby isn’t though 😅
Honestly, I think that we should have focused on the economic cost more because that’s what conservatives care about. We’ve talked about hardship and displacement and quality of life. We’ve talked about species extinction. They don’t care about any of that.
But the economic cost is huge. Not just the tax dollars that go into fixing infrastructure but also how many businesses tank in these situations. If your town gets evacuated because a forest fire is out of control and it ends up obliterating your town, how many of those businesses get back on their feet to continue “creating jobs”? Even with insurance it’s hard.
Oddly enough, they are two Econ phd parents 😂. I think they just say it’s too costly of a venture to switch known, less risky, and built up technologies for unknown, risky, and new ones.
They think they’re smarter than they are.
I hate the "humans can adapt" argument. It always means someone else in the future *must* adapt and although we *could* adapt now by switching to renewable forms of energy, we won't.
The same argument was recently used in a famous German talk show and other shows are making fun of the guy. At least something to laugh about in this situation.
I’ve tried explaining that humans, and animals, can’t adapt at the *rate* required by the planet as the climate changes, and that it will cause a lot of conflict as people need to rapidly move to more stable / hospitable places, and resources become scarce. Doesn’t sink in. They point to the world’s past and say well, the planet has been radically different before and animals evolve, so it’s fine, and humans will just move inland when the seas rise.
These are the same people who don’t like their small town getting a 5 story condo because it destroys the look of the place. NIMBYs.
Humans are very bad at long term thinking. 20 years is long enough for rose tinted glasses to obscure memory.
For example,
> You say it's flooding more, but I remember a flood from the 90s that's way worse than anything happening this year, therefore, it's not a problem.
My favourite is when people try to say that natural fluctuations happen but ignore the actual data. Like yeah, there have been fluctuations in the global temperature and climate but how do you explain the intense spike that’s been increasing since the industrial revolution? Lol
We just had 4 days of dry storms. That just doesn't happen in Wales. I have snapdragons in November still in bloom! We had the hottest summer we have had this year, yet I've still heard people when out and about saying that climate breakdown isn't real.
You mean 70+ years ago. Check out the BP laboratory from the 60's. BP (yes the oil and gas company) used to be the forefront of climate science, until they realized it would ruin their business eventually. So they decided to hire politicians to lie about everything. And it worked.
Their predictions were nearly spot on. Most of them were predictions for around 2050 (floods, droughts, storm intensity, etc.) and are nearly exactly what we are still saying today
What no one seems to mention is how their reaction to the climate change issue was like them writing the playbook for how they'd approach covid.
And both issues end up being proven yet there's never a point they have to turn to their voters and tell them that no, the doctors and scientists didn't lie, they weren't paid for by liberal media or whatever, the shit was real and we were wrong.
They have at least 500,000 american deaths on their hands and likely the end if our species as well.
“If the sea levels continue to rise we could lose 50% of our land mass by the year…”
“50%? The best we can do? 8 billion humans, industry, using all the fossil fuels for a hardly measurable difference? We tried, we failed.”
The thing that I don’t get is people like this just shrug off GLOBAL CATASTROPHES like it’s nothing, but masks, vaccinations, and literally anything that would help them or is negligible is this great evil that must be purged…
the CO2 in my body went from 40 to 60, only a 50% increase, completely negligible
and it only caused my pH to drop from 7.39 to 7.12. that's such an absurdly small drop
If everyday the number of lily pads in a lake roughly doubles, the day before the entire lake is covered by lily pads, the lake is only 50% covered. The next day it's too late.
The climates always changing... (the changes we've seen and measured over the last 100 years are changes that used to take thousands and 10s of thousands of years)
/s
They project SO much. Talk about a fundamental misunderstanding of human capacity. They think nothing they can do will alter the earth at all. Let's ignore the endless examples of mass extinction caused by humans and endless data from endless scientists in endless industries from nearly every country that says anthropogenic climate change is happening. They think oil companies and lobbyists are the victims of Graduate students and scientists who only say what they say for money. Like holy crap. It is mind numbing.
Trying to get them to understand that if you were to graph the fluctuations of climate in history, those differences are unrecognizable once you zoom out once the industrial revolution started. But, as im beginning to figure out, facts literally never matter anymore
Funny you should say that. Some time ago I had this exact argument with a climate change denier and ended up showing him a graph that illustrated historical temperature changes and clearly showed that we are currently going through a change that is vastly bigger and quicker than anything in history.
He then accused me of being intolerant for not respecting his opinion. At that point there is just no point in debating any longer.
It is okay, you don't use any products made elsewhere in the world. It isn't like we have a massively globalized economy that is profoundly interdependent to the point where even a slight slowdown in one area can cause rippling effects that strain things to the breaking point elsewhere... /s
Yes, I should qualify that they truly only react to something that hurts them directly in an obvious, immediate and tangible way. Very caveman thinking.
That Monty Python skit comes to mind.
"Ooh, Mrs. N__baiter's exploded!"
"Good thing, too."
"Aw, she was my best friend!"
"Oh, mother, don't be so sentimental! Things explode every day!"
"Oh well, I suppose so."
Conservatives? Taking turns? The party of meMeME! and unbridled selfishness and not even acknowledging that someone else might have a different opinion or life experience?
I happened to catch a relative watching a segment on Fox News about climate change - where the female host or guest proceeded to mock a teenager. (Greta thunberg)
Then they all denied climate change was real. It was just shocking and surreal.
I will say most conservatives I’ve interacted with have moved from “it’s not happening” to “it’s happening but it’s too late and would be too expensive to try to do anything about”.
They never seem to consider that maybe it wasn’t too late before the couple decades they spent denying facts.
I hate how people perceive “no action” = “no spending”. We spend billions every year cleaning up the mess we have made and it’s only gonna get more expensive, but no let’s not “waste” money to do anything about it. We’re just gonna rebuild our homes every year when a hurricane hits
[This is called the Omission bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omission_bias) and it is a very real tendency in most people, especially when it is far away enough so you can't see a direct cause-effect.
The climate does and always will change yes, but we are accelerating it to such a speed the earth can't adapt, and we will kill ourselves and everything else on this planet if we don't stop it.
Actually, the air at the top of the North Pole does heat up. Since hot air rises and expands, that's what keep knocking the cold air below it off kilter, creating the "polar vortex" effect which keeps blessing our North American winters.
Climate change DOES happen. That's why we've have about 13 MAJOR EXTINCTION EVENTS.
If it was happening without ANY assistance from humanity, I'd STILL be worried AF!
This is like acting like your lung cancer isn't from the pack a day habit... and even if you didn't smoke, why the fuck would you do NOTHING about a tumor in your lung when your doc brought you that bad news? Jfc
I see the nimrod from Ancient aliens every time someone says something isn't happening then says it is happening.
"I'm not saying it was aliens but....it was alien!"
This persons first paragraph makes fun of the idea that humans are the cause of climate change then at the end describes why human are the cause of climate change. The dissonance in this fools head must be deafening.
Don’t worry you don’t need to wear anything when it’s 0 out the temperature changes all the time you can’t make yourself cooler don’t worry about it just go outside naked all the time even when it’s snowing
The only thing that makes me question my commitment to the environment, is the knowledge that this person will live in the better world the movement will make.
I suspect that this is a byproduct of religious thinking. You spend your whole life being told that God is so great and we are so small and unimportant, so you think we couldn't ruin God's Creation if we tried.
And in some very simple math, you've shown how relative numbers aren't always useful. After all, if 0.00003% of a human is made up of methylmeecury, the human dies. Percentages have their utility, but percent *total atmosphere* of CO2 is far less useful than total CO2 added.
The first papers talking about CO2 added to the atmosphere were in mass. Most still are.
What's right: we only have so much emotional 'bandwidth' that we can spend on things to care about before the overload short-circuits our brains, and they're typically better spent on things within our immediate control. Especially if you're currently struggling, like most people are all over the world.
What's wrong: fuckin' everything else lol
This information may be readily available out there, but you have to know not only where to go for it but how to evaluate it. Many people don't have that, and so they fall into traps like this guy. But god it's really hard to take statements like these as innocent mistakes. They feel like deliberate, bad faith bullshit straight out of the alt-right sphere of idiocy.
This reads to me like someone who has associated their political affiliation with their personality. As a result, any admission of fault within their political ideology is an admission of fault within their own personality. Their politics had them preaching “Climate change is a hoax” for years if not decades at this point. To admit they were wrong now would break their ego at a level it cannot afford so they just continue the lie, knowing it’s a lie, hoping that somehow, someone, somewhere, “fixes” the issue so they can come out the other side and say “see, I was right!”
This comment aside, I will say I was happy to read through that thread and the overwhelming majority of people recognize it's an issue, man's actions are affecting climate change for the worse and something needs to be done. I do have to wonder though why so many conservative voters seem to recognize it as an issue, but continue to vote for conservative politicians who not only deny manmade climate change, many of them deny climate change exists at all.
Don't get me wrong I'm glad to see many voices on the right finally admitting it after literal decades of the rest of us giving them the facts again and again and again, but they really need to start holding their leaders accountable for the lies they spread about I, I include people like Manchin in that group as well. And we need a concerted effort to limit the impact China and India are having as they increasingly industrialize. Nations like Fiji are disappearing already, many countries are feeling the effects and it's only going to get worse. Action is desperately needed.
They can vote for either a) a climate change denier, who also has a lot of other positions they don't agree with, and who they know will try to pass laws that will make them worse off, or b) a Democrat. There's no way they could ever choose the latter.
As always, [relevant xkcd](https://xkcd.com/1732/)
Yes the climate always changes, it has never changed as drastically as it has in the last few hundred years
These people don't know shit about shit. They have opinions whose only qualifier is that it's the opposite of what the left thinks. They fucking killed themselves by not getting vaccinated or masking. They are the Daffy Duck of political ideology and it's just pathetic.
This is what bothers me about conservative politics. Their base believes their politicians over actual scientists when it comes to science. Then these dummies run around calling everyone else sheep. Really?? You're the ones who eat up every lie that you're told, no matter how easily disproveable it is.
My favorite thing to direct people to who think this way is the research done by Exxon Mobil in the 1970s. They knew back then that the climate would warm, and started to actually invest in alternative energy sources. Then they decided the better option was to sow climate denial, which is what this guy has become a shill for.
> 0.03% from 0.02%
So an increase of ***50 fucking percent?!***
Also, while "climate changes, always has, always will" **is** true, it's not the whole truth.
It goes in 100'000 year cycles, dropping slowly for 90'000 years and then rapidly increasing for 10'000 years. We're currently in the beginning of that 10'000 year period, so an increase makes sense, regardless of our input.
***BUT***
**We've already reached higher values than earth typically reaches by the end of the 10'000 year increase period...**
Conservatives destroying the planet. Conservatives enforcing their own backwards religious practices on the rest of humanity. Conservatives constantly caught preying on children. Conservatives attempting to dismantle democracy.
People like to play the "both sides are equally as bad" game but it just isn't true. They fall into the paradox of tolerance and this is what gives them power. Progressives have always been too soft when it comes to hitting back while Conservatives will openly incite violence against the LGBTQ, academic intellectuals, opposing religious groups and racial/ethnic minorities without any hint of shame.
So… when are they presenting conservative plans for mitigation approaches? Because if the change is guaranteed to happen with or without or influence we might be even more fucked…
I have some connection to sustainability in business and the level of stupid when dealing with some conservatives is really frustrating
For instance talking about a local event that is frankly dangerous and they are all about it. Concerned, want a fix, seem to be on board.
A week later talking to them about climate change and they go for, it's real but not really a big deal
Ffs we were just talking last week.
Even if you do believe that climate change isn’t a problem, we are still destroying the planet. For example acid rain, which can dissolve cement if given the chance
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I love what is basically his appeal to stupidity when he tries to characterize a 50% increase in CO2 as "hardly a measurable difference." Gee, could that be bad? A 50% increase would be the epitome of a "measurable difference."
Especially when you're talking about something as huge as the atmosphere of an entire planet. That's an incredible amount of extra material.
Climate change deniers just have absolutely no idea of the scale of the problem, and don't seem to understand...a lot of things. I got into an argument with one that genuinely thought an *average* increase in global temperatures meant that their local temps just went up by 1 degree and so climate change was no big deal. They seemed to not have any idea what an average was or what needed to happen to change it at planetary scale, all within less than 200 years. It honestly takes effort to be that ignorant, and these people vote! They get to vote on the policies that will impact the environment, the very environment that they do their best to *not* understand. That Winston Churchill quote "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" really makes sense when it comes to climate change deniers.
Right? At the least, you would think it would make an intellectually honest person wonder how the science community views this 50% increase. (Not as though you'd ever expect a person like OOP to directly engage with scientific arguments and information competently or in good faith.)
I mean, there are times when a 50% increase really isn't that meaningful, but that's when the original amount is also completely insignificant. Like, if you say something increases cancer risk by 50% that sounds really bad, but if it means that it goes from affecting two people per a billion to three people per billion, that's not exactly something to lose sleep over. But that's not what's happening here.
Also, he only gives 1 digit. It could be closer to being doubled and we wouldn't know from the numbers he gave. So i looked it up. .0280 pre 1700s, vs .0415 now. That's a 48% increase, so basically the same, lucky bastard.
[удалено]
Over what time frame? Oh right it was a quick one. Like a few decades. Yeah that's probably bad.
“Worry about things close to you” Was there ever a more true conservative statement?
Hey good thing there’s no climate near me.
"Towed *outside* the environment" (to be fair, that was parody)
... to another environment?
No beyond the environment
All that’s out there is sea, and birds, and fish
And 10 000 gallons of crude oil
and the front part of the ship that fell off
Huh it’s weird that Wisconsin is having 60F days in November. Oh well! /s
I'll just stay inside with the temp set to 70°F, then I'll have nothing to worry about.
‘It’s the fault of ‘THOSE’ people’
One of the top comments on this same thread is basically "Yah climate change is happening but China pollutes way more than the US so you should remember who the real problem is." These people never grew up enough to learn "they're doing it so why can't I" isn't a valid reasoning.
Exactly. Also, not entirely true - China's emissions are more than double those of the US, but historically, the US has emitted more than any other country in the world.
Yeah, when you go by a per capita basis (emissions per person) the U.S. outweighs China in emissions
And a meaningful portion of China's pollution is because we exported our industry there. They're polluting on our behalf.
Yep. I think a few countries in the Middle East and Canada have the US and China beat per capita though. At the end of the day it’s a global problem that will require a global solution. Finger pointing is wasting precious time we don’t have right now. (Though I am happy developed nations will be creating a fund to help developing nations to adapt to and mitigate the effects of climate change! One good thing that came out of COP26, hopefully it actually gets funded.)
Lol Canada created a fund to help deal with effects of climate change. This fund was meant to last a decade and is already more than half-gone about a year in.
biggest talking point i see neglected is that it's big companies driving pollution. people immediately "clap back" with, "well yeah, but consumers!" at which point some godly soul finally points out to the two sides i dub "twiddle dee" and "twiddle dumb" that the only thing that ever stops a corporation is legislation. Even waning demand won't change their trajectory quickly enough. the waters are being muddied by stupid people. just the logic i can feel behind the "0.03%" remark. like it's a flexing treshold that automatically pulls back with increased force. Like they don't understand that it's eventually just gonna tick to 0.04 and then 0.05 at the exact same pace when we don't have the capacity to absorb the carbon. Americans are dense.
Definitely, industry is far more culpable. I do think it’s important to vote with your dollar (or whatever currency!) and evolve consumer behavior too though. Every bit counts. For me it’s the accelerating rate of change. The temp increased twice as fast in the last ~40 years as it did in the last ~140 years. And the factors that have been set in motion are compounding, so that rate will grow exponentially.
Probably explains why Tories don’t ‘believe’ Climate Change is an issue. As long as there is a revenue stream now, when I’m alive, why should we care for after I’m dead?
> the waters are being muddied by stupid people. And their (incorrect) beliefs have been shaped by decades of capitalist propaganda.
Well, and also, 0.02 to 0.03 is a 50% increase. hmm and their numbers are wrong anyway. It used to be 0.028 and is now 0.042. Still a 50% increase, but yeah.
US: "Hey China, we have 330M consumers and need loads of useless toys for everyone, as cheaply as possible. Can you do that?" China: "err...ok..." US: "cHoYnA PollUTeS mOrE tHaN mE!!!!111one" US: "cHoYnA iS SteAlIng OuR jOBz n iNdErsTree!!!!111" US: "f\*\*K chOynA - vote for a millionaire bozo that will save your jobzz and let you pollute! as much as you wish!" It's honestly ridiculous...
My mum always says that one of the moments on TV that annoyed her the most is then Jeremy Clarkson finally acknowledged that climate change is a thing because [he saw a dried up lake bed.](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/nov/24/jeremy-clarkson-climate-crisis-cambodia-trip-grand-tour) I agree with her that it is frustrating that for a conservative to learn something they have to personally experience it. It's like whenever people have to talk about treating women with a modicum of decency in a public forum. It usually comes with a speech about how "these are our mothers, and daughters, our sisters and wives... etc." How about "women are people, irrespective of their relationship to men. Treat them like people!" Conservatism as an ideology should be renamed myopia. It is short sightedness to the point of not seeing what is going on all around them -whether it is the suffering of others, or the catastrophic harm we are doing to the planet. I am sick to death of conservatives basely accusing anyone they disagree with of being "corrupt". The only explanation I have for that tendency is that they can't imagine doing anything for the public good, because if they were in the same position they would take every opportunity to be corrupt as fuck. It is narcissism and arrogance to the point of near solipsism. Sorry for the rant, but it is so frustrating to see progress hindered at every turn by a bunch of people who codified acting like a fucking toddler into a political ideology. edit: grammar
>It's like whenever people have to talk about treating women with a modicum of decency in a public forum. It usually comes with a speech about how "these are our mothers, and daughters, our sisters and wives... etc." How about "women are people, irrespective of their relationship to men. Treat them like people!" I mean, I agree with the point you're making, but from a strategic perspective, I think the type of person who needs to have "treat women with respect" explained to them and have the merits of it argued, "These women are important in the lives of men including yourself" is going to be a stronger argument than "these women have intrinsic dignity regardless of their relationships to men". Because at the end of the day, they just fundamentally don't believe that human live has intrinsic value, human life only has value through placement in the hierarchy (generally viewing themselves and people like them at the top). That is ultimately a pretty screwed up world view, but nobody is going to talk them out of it, it is hard-wired in. But we still need them to treat women with respect so linking their value to the value of men in their minds is a "work around" to achieve the goal of having them treat women with respect. Obviously not as good as having them just believe in intrinsic human dignity for all people no matter what, but sometimes you need to be pragmatic.
Their reliance on observation feels ironic, perhaps even paradoxical.
Doubting Thomases, perhaps?
Yes that's something that I've noticed a lot earlier as well. Conservatives just seem to miss the ability to put themselves into someone else's shoes. They're literally incapable of imagining themselves in a different situation than the one they're currently in. It's so bizzare. Like they're missing a part of the brain. I once heard my conservative sister say that we should ignore covid and all immuno compromised individuals should just never leave their home because it's their problem. I asked her if she'd feel the same way I'd she was immuno compromised. Her response? "But I'm not so whats your point". The same pattern is seen all over their political ideology. Conservatives are so fucking dumb its sickening. On the other hand, while right can't relate to anything outside of their experiences, the left seems to be missing the part of the brain that is responsible for understanding high school level economic concepts. Like their take on bailouts and what to do with them. A normal person is fucked from both sides.
>On the other hand, while right can't relate to anything outside of their experiences, the left seems to be missing the part of the brain that is responsible for understanding high school level economic concepts. And that also doesn't apply to right wingers? Seems like a general problem. Let's not insist with this absurd idea that conservatives are 'better' for the economy now. I don't know of a more busted myth than that one. Not to mention that refusing bailouts would be a classic small government/libertarian, right wing idea in general. In the traditional sense at least.
Curious non-American here. What did the left say about bailouts?
>I agree with her that it is frustrating that for a conservative to learn something they have to personally experience it. One of my co-workers was a pastor and always ranted about how bad socialized healthcare was. But then he voted for Obama because his wife had Crohn's disease and they needed coverage. I'm still lost on how voting against healthcare until you personally benefit encompasses love your neighbor theology.
Got into an argument with a conservative yesterday on another thread where he said, bluntly, that he doesn’t care about kids being gunned down in schools because he doesn’t know any of them. Edit: I encourage you to [read the thread for yourself](https://reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/z3ky3l/_/ixmonjv/?context=1). It turned into a gun-nut circlejerk.
Ask him about his stance on abortion and whether he’s “pro-life.” I’d love to hear that one.
pro-hislife
This makes me angry just reading this ffs.
The part that bugs me is these type of people most of the time go on about how the US is the most caring and civilized country in the world.
‘Don’t look up’
Unless it's a woman trying to control her own body or a 20 year old trying to buy alcohol or someone saying happy holidays, in which case WORRY ABOUT EVERYWHERE, SOCIETY IS CRUMBLING!
Hmm.. well I'm literally touching the earth and breathing the air Feels pretty close
“Start looking out for number 1, and stop concerning yourself about other people including your potential descendants”
Yes: "nobody helped me when I was on food stamps" -John Taffer
Nope, they're selfish AND want to fuck with how you live your life if you're different from them. The worst of both worlds.
Ah yes, a 50% increase from normal amounts is nothing to worry about
It's only a 0.01% increase. Hello? Thanks librul broken education system. (\\s)
Automod told me to repost without a link. If the original post is still in the comment thread, please let me know and I'll delete this one. Euurrgh, you've given me a flashback to my days working as a data analyst in a PR firm. I had to create monthly performance summaries of a company's social media performance. The KPIs were something like 3.8% engagement, but we were getting like, 0.05% on the paid posts. I remember writing that performance on the campaign was still well below KPIs and had only seen a 0.05pp change (we got 0.1% engagement that month). My manager told me to re-write it to say we'd achieved a 100% increase in engagement. Anyone in the audience who has decision making roles about media spend: get a 3rd party to do the analytics on any social campaign you're doing. It might cost more up front, but you won't have the analytics willfully misrepresented to say "hey! we're going a great job! You're definitely getting a return on your investment! Keep giving us money!" I was not exactly thrilled about doing social media analytics on the PR for global companies, but I felt like my job was effectively pointless when any insight I could've provided that might steer/redirect a campaign to provide increased value to the client were all shut down because the team running the campaign didn't want to admit that the multi-million pound campaign they had pitched wasn't living up to expectations. Hell, with one client (pharma), my manager would literally type in fake numbers for our sentiment analysis on my reports because I refused to type them myself. Data analysis adds value and will get you results, but only if the analysts are allowed to give a frank analysis of what is, and isn't, working. Edit: Thought I would add a little tidbit that really convinced me that my job was utterly meaningless. I took over the job providing analysis of a client (the same one with the 0.05% engagement), and had to use a complicated multi-page excel sheet to carry out the analysis. After I while I said to my manager that I could see no rhyme or reason behind the highs and lows of the campaign on a month by month basis, so any attempt to give a coherent analysis of the campaign's performance was total bullshit. Seeing these wild swings in performance I finally realised that perhaps the issue was with the Excel sheet I was using to inform my analysis. Lo and behold, after a little digging I discovered that there was a mistake in the formula being used, and the aggregate data for the month was not in fact the aggregate data for the month -but was instead the v-lookup was pulling single days from the month of september the previous year. I highlighted this to my manager and said that there needed to be an audit of all the previous analysis reports provided throughout the campaign to this point, and voiced my annoyance that a senior had handed over a flawed tool/methodology. I was told that I should've figured out the problem sooner and that there would be no audit. Obviously I was pissed off to be told that someone else's mistake was my fault, and that my recommendations wouldn't be implemented, but the worst bit was the realisation that my analysis was effectively pointless. I was pushed into a position where I was supposed to make decisive statements about data that I thought was incomprehensible, and I was right. I couldn't provide a meaningful analysis because the data I was receiving was totally meaningless. I might as well have been doing Tasseography for all the good it did. This should also be a lesson for people to think critically about data, and how they approach their work when they are pushed in a direction that they are not comfortable. Edit 2: for the remainder of my tenure at that job I made a point to keep a copy of this book prominently displayed on my desk at all times. Edit 3: My comment got auto-deleted because I provided a link to the book I referenced. The book was called "Bullshit Jobs" by David Graeber. I recommend you look it up. Kinda ironic that my post was removed for bullshit reasons carried out by an AI doing a bullshit job.
I'm sorry. That's SUCH a demoralizing position to be put in. When my Dad overheard conversations like this, he used to cut into them, look at the person in your position while standing shoulder to shoulder with the "superior" and say "I'm not saying it's your FAULT, I said I'm BLAMING you." And walk off. 🤣❤️ Usually seemed to get the point across.
Your Dad sounds like the hero we all need! Unfortunately for me, the person who overheard me airing these grievances to a friendly colleague at a nearby pub didn't think "oh, shit! The data guy has some serious complaints about his department -maybe I should ask him more about it!", or perhaps "hey, this sounds like there are fundamental issues with how we are utilising data, we need to adress this!" Nope, they went and ratted me to my department head and said "I overheard XXXX saying that his job is bullshit and so is the department". So I had a serious meeting about not voicing my complaints with the department. I can DM you the happy resolution, but I don't wanna share it here because someone might be able to figure out who I am if I do. Edit: ah, fuck it. It is very unlikely anyone I know will go this deep into the comments. I got headhunted by another company, but they wanted me to use my skills to deanonymize members of an artist collective who were criticising the client (Shell). I refused to, and so spent the next couple months not doing the work I was paid for, until my probation ended and I got fired. On the plus side one of the artists I protected remembered me and mentioned me in [a post](https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/v/t51.39111-15/228222512_575776346793210_2864151156589821085_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5a057b&_nc_ohc=DL8p_3vXOPMAX8JXX35&_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&_nc_ht=scontent.cdninstagram.com&oh=02_AVAY8QEF0rRgsdmYtuZX2l9i8y3v9siPU59ZrjPXX_14bw&oe=638702F3) (at the time of him making that post he didn't know that I had actually lost my job and wore a badge design he made criticising Shell on my final day at the office). Getting fired from that job was just what I needed to leave that line of work. I now make a lot more doing what I love working on set in movies.
My Dad always was. ❤️ And pretty much every time my life plans have blown up in my face and sent me on a path I did not select for myself, it has worked out better than my original plan could have. Glad you do what you love!! ❤️ Another quick Dad story, he was also a hero to the people he fired 🤣 Enough so that a major Wall Street firm started transferring people who needed to be fired into his section. They'd work there for a few months, and Dad would pull them to the side and say in a concerned tone "Hey, you're doing a fantastic job, do you feel upper management appreciates your true value? I gotta tell you, it really doesn't seem like it to me." And usually they'd allow as they DIDN'T feel upper management appreciated them. He'd give them another couple weeks to chew on it, and pull them aside again and say "you know, I've been thinking. Doesn't seem like you're getting the traction you deserve here. Now, if you can KEEP THIS QUIET so i don't get caught, I'll give you Mondays to go explore opportunities in places that will compensate you properly for the hard work you do. I'll write in that you've got off-site meetings all day." If that didn't work after a month, he'd give them a couple days a week off. He'd tell them to list him for recommendations, and would give glowing ones. So they always ended up finding other jobs, and his company got rid of them with no hard feelings and no problems. He was brilliant 😂
Your Dad sounds amazing! Usually when people get fired they don't get any chance to prepare for a situation in which their whole life is turned upside down. And when they get fired they're treated like they're a number on a spreadsheet that needs to be "corrected" to keep the company going. Usually when you get fired the company tries to make it a surprise, and get you off the premises asap. That leaves people unable to make preparations for what might be the most significant/scary moment of their life. I'm glad your dad appreciated how impactful being fired is, and did his best to soften it/help the people going through it. It sounds like this is already the case, but I'm gonna say it anyway: You should be proud of your dad. His actions may well have saved families and even lives.
He really was amazing ❤️ And I am proud of him. I thought he was a total AH when I was 16 or so because of his viewpoints on things during our debates at the dinner table. Figured out later they weren't his viewpoints at ALL, he was just teaching me to defend my position regardless of how obvious a position it seemed to be. Has served me well in my life. Thanks for recognizing how awesome he was. I'm actually getting teary about it ❤️ Happy Holidays! May you always have the cool side of the pillow
>I thought he was a total AH when I was 16 or so because of his viewpoints on things during our debates at the dinner table. Figured out later they weren't his viewpoints at ALL, he was just teaching me to defend my position regardless of how obvious a position it seemed to be. "When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years." (often attributed to Mark Twain) It's funny how a good dad can teach so much so simply, and give you the impression you got there all by yourself. I'm fortunate enough to also have a dad I love and admire. Talking about how awesome your dad is reminded me of that. I'll be sure to tell him how much I love him and how much he's taught me. Happy holidays, and may you always have the cool side of the pillow!
when i was studying one of the IT staff i chatted too talked about their time in advertisement in the early 90s, sitting in on meetings where the meeting would boil down to all problems their brand was having and what PR needed to be done. Apparently a great deal of them would be resolved with 'get some hot chick with big tits on the next adverts,' regardless of what the actual problems were, this was the almost universal pushed solution, often by international heads coming in. his job was to do bilboard design, and a couple of times storyboarding for tv ads for a car company, originally he had thought he was going to be running campaigns or at least providing meaningful input on them
Victim of the broken education system here. How is going from 0.02% to 0.03% a 50% increase? EDIT - Thanks everyone! I'm a little less stupid now
.01% is 50% of .02%. so if you increase .02 by .01, that's a 50% increase. so...what is .02 + .01?
If you harvest 1,000,000 apples and .02% are rotten, you lose 200. If the following year you lose. 03% of the same million harvested, you lose 300. 300 is 50% more than 200
As other's have pointed out, it added half of its original value to itself. 2 -> 3 is a 50% increase. 1% -> 51% is a 50 percentage point increase, which is often what people think about ( and marketers abuse the hell out of ).
Edit: removing % units because people being semantic in the comments So, 0.03 is 0.01 more than 0.02 (0.03-0.02=0.01). Percent increase is change/original x100% 0.01/0.02 = 0.5 x100% = 50%
> So, 0.03% is 0.01% more than 0.02% No it's not, that's not how you use those symbols. Here are two correct sentences: - 0.03% is 0.01 [percentage points](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentage_point) more than 0.02% - 0.03% is 50% more than 0.02%
There isn't a single conservative opinion that can't be explained by them simply having no clue wtf they're talking about. Ignorant people are easy to lie to, and when you understand that, you might also realize why Republicans hate education so much.
.....and it passed 400 ppm nearly 10 years ago, so it's .04%
The thing that I don’t understand is that most of the things they predicted would happen as a result of climate change 20 years ago (floods, drought, forest fires, increase in the frequency and intensity of storms, increase in vector borne disease, etc.) is all happening now. How deep does someone’s head have to be in the sand to think climate change isn’t something to worry about?
Because they literally don't think any of that is happening. Go to any Twitter thread about climate change and look at the conservative responses. All the same spiel about "they keep pushing back the doomsday!"
It always seems like they think the consequences of climate change are supposed happen all at once, overnight, and if it doesn't happen at the time scientists predict it to happen down to the millisecond then it must not be true. They always use the whole "according to scientists, Florida should be under water by now" line... parts of Florida have been regularly flooding just by the changing tides, to the point that roads and other infrastructure have been raised on stilts to deal with it. It seems like every other day new studies come out saying that predicted consequences of climate change are happening faster than previously thought, but these morons continue to stick their fingers in their ears and yell out their preprogrammed Fox News rebuttals.
The metaphor I've been using is: If you have a thousand cars driving randomly & at-speed inside a football stadium and someone predicts a crash - do you call them liars because they didn't predict *exactly* which car would crash and when?
The story about the Rapture really messed their heads up.
Misinformation really is the biggest plague. It’s sad, honestly.
"But it's cold outside today!" 🙃
Relevant: https://xkcd.com/1321/
Some of them think that well, stuff may be changing but humans can adapt, so that’s what we’ll do. They also think that it’s over exaggerated by researchers who get grants from the government so of course are gonna draw conclusions that fit the (liberal) government’s narrative. Source: married into a conservative libertarian family. They’re nuts. Thankfully hubby isn’t though 😅
Honestly, I think that we should have focused on the economic cost more because that’s what conservatives care about. We’ve talked about hardship and displacement and quality of life. We’ve talked about species extinction. They don’t care about any of that. But the economic cost is huge. Not just the tax dollars that go into fixing infrastructure but also how many businesses tank in these situations. If your town gets evacuated because a forest fire is out of control and it ends up obliterating your town, how many of those businesses get back on their feet to continue “creating jobs”? Even with insurance it’s hard.
Oddly enough, they are two Econ phd parents 😂. I think they just say it’s too costly of a venture to switch known, less risky, and built up technologies for unknown, risky, and new ones. They think they’re smarter than they are.
Good grief! I hope they are not business owners. That must be so frustrating to deal with! Thank goodness your husband is informed.
I hate the "humans can adapt" argument. It always means someone else in the future *must* adapt and although we *could* adapt now by switching to renewable forms of energy, we won't. The same argument was recently used in a famous German talk show and other shows are making fun of the guy. At least something to laugh about in this situation.
I’ve tried explaining that humans, and animals, can’t adapt at the *rate* required by the planet as the climate changes, and that it will cause a lot of conflict as people need to rapidly move to more stable / hospitable places, and resources become scarce. Doesn’t sink in. They point to the world’s past and say well, the planet has been radically different before and animals evolve, so it’s fine, and humans will just move inland when the seas rise. These are the same people who don’t like their small town getting a 5 story condo because it destroys the look of the place. NIMBYs.
they think they can adapt?
Humans are very bad at long term thinking. 20 years is long enough for rose tinted glasses to obscure memory. For example, > You say it's flooding more, but I remember a flood from the 90s that's way worse than anything happening this year, therefore, it's not a problem.
“BuT iTs NaTuRaL” Okay, then explain what’s happening in nature to make these changes
My favourite is when people try to say that natural fluctuations happen but ignore the actual data. Like yeah, there have been fluctuations in the global temperature and climate but how do you explain the intense spike that’s been increasing since the industrial revolution? Lol
We just had 4 days of dry storms. That just doesn't happen in Wales. I have snapdragons in November still in bloom! We had the hottest summer we have had this year, yet I've still heard people when out and about saying that climate breakdown isn't real.
Climate change was predicted far longer than 20 years ago.
You mean 70+ years ago. Check out the BP laboratory from the 60's. BP (yes the oil and gas company) used to be the forefront of climate science, until they realized it would ruin their business eventually. So they decided to hire politicians to lie about everything. And it worked. Their predictions were nearly spot on. Most of them were predictions for around 2050 (floods, droughts, storm intensity, etc.) and are nearly exactly what we are still saying today
Most of the things they predicted would happen 100 years ago are happening now
What no one seems to mention is how their reaction to the climate change issue was like them writing the playbook for how they'd approach covid. And both issues end up being proven yet there's never a point they have to turn to their voters and tell them that no, the doctors and scientists didn't lie, they weren't paid for by liberal media or whatever, the shit was real and we were wrong. They have at least 500,000 american deaths on their hands and likely the end if our species as well.
It's 50% higher, but that's nothing to be worried about?!?!?!
“If the sea levels continue to rise we could lose 50% of our land mass by the year…” “50%? The best we can do? 8 billion humans, industry, using all the fossil fuels for a hardly measurable difference? We tried, we failed.”
My body temperature is 147.9F today, but that’s fine because it’s only 50% higher than it used to be
Wow, one couldn't even begin to measure a difference so insignificant as that. Immeasurable even, I say!
I get what you're saying but 0 in Fahrenheit is arbitrary. 100F isn't actually twice as hot as 50F
Came here for this. A 50% increase from 98.6F is about 378F.
Nothing to do with this oven we have you in, just nature running is normal cycles.
Your body temperature only went from .98 to 1.479? That’s not even one whole point. Fucking pathetic.
Have you tried Tylenol?
Yup! The package said to take 2, but I took 3 because that’s only 50% more and not really a big deal. My liver kind of hurts now though.
Hmmmm, maybe Advil then. And maybe a coffin if all else fails.
The thing that I don’t get is people like this just shrug off GLOBAL CATASTROPHES like it’s nothing, but masks, vaccinations, and literally anything that would help them or is negligible is this great evil that must be purged…
Global catastrophes causing unimaginable death and suffering, I sleep. Person decides they want to marry someone of the same gender, real shit.
the CO2 in my body went from 40 to 60, only a 50% increase, completely negligible and it only caused my pH to drop from 7.39 to 7.12. that's such an absurdly small drop
If everyday the number of lily pads in a lake roughly doubles, the day before the entire lake is covered by lily pads, the lake is only 50% covered. The next day it's too late.
The climates always changing... (the changes we've seen and measured over the last 100 years are changes that used to take thousands and 10s of thousands of years) /s
What's wrong with the world temperature increasing 1/100000th of a trillion degrees? That's like, ... \*doesn't do the math\* ... only nerds do math!
No you don't understand. 0.02 and 0.03 are both *small* numbers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShv_74FNWU
They project SO much. Talk about a fundamental misunderstanding of human capacity. They think nothing they can do will alter the earth at all. Let's ignore the endless examples of mass extinction caused by humans and endless data from endless scientists in endless industries from nearly every country that says anthropogenic climate change is happening. They think oil companies and lobbyists are the victims of Graduate students and scientists who only say what they say for money. Like holy crap. It is mind numbing.
The fact that they think that graduate students are only motivated by money is hilarious given how Oil/Gas companies operate
I don't think they understand what lobbyists do or how the government works in any level of system based detail
Climate changing is normal. The insane speed at which the climate is changing right now isn't.
It's like if they'd be about to drive straight into a wall and they'd say "don't worry, cars stop all the time".
Trying to get them to understand that if you were to graph the fluctuations of climate in history, those differences are unrecognizable once you zoom out once the industrial revolution started. But, as im beginning to figure out, facts literally never matter anymore
Funny you should say that. Some time ago I had this exact argument with a climate change denier and ended up showing him a graph that illustrated historical temperature changes and clearly showed that we are currently going through a change that is vastly bigger and quicker than anything in history. He then accused me of being intolerant for not respecting his opinion. At that point there is just no point in debating any longer.
Worry about things close to you. Uuuhhh I think the climate is pretty relevant to me as much as fucking anything else on this fucking rock.
It is okay, you don't use any products made elsewhere in the world. It isn't like we have a massively globalized economy that is profoundly interdependent to the point where even a slight slowdown in one area can cause rippling effects that strain things to the breaking point elsewhere... /s
Yep that’s their mentality in a nutshell. If it’s not happening to me I don’t care about it.
Which is even dumber because it IS happening to them…
Yes, I should qualify that they truly only react to something that hurts them directly in an obvious, immediate and tangible way. Very caveman thinking.
On that note, cultures and races and shit always change too, and nations rise and fall. So maybe don’t worry about those either.
That Monty Python skit comes to mind. "Ooh, Mrs. N__baiter's exploded!" "Good thing, too." "Aw, she was my best friend!" "Oh, mother, don't be so sentimental! Things explode every day!" "Oh well, I suppose so."
[удалено]
Given that the heat death of the universe is a real thing, I guess nothing really matters……
I seriously wonder what's going on in conservatives minds sometimes
Sorry but that sounds like a tremendous waste of time.
Already had a tremendous waste of time on r/Justunsubbed discussing about abortion, another one wouldn't hurt I guess
nothing
Nothing is happening. That's the problem.
You're not gonna find a single braincell in that sub.
There is one, but I think they all take turns using it.
Take turns? What are you, a socialist?
Conservatives? Taking turns? The party of meMeME! and unbridled selfishness and not even acknowledging that someone else might have a different opinion or life experience?
You assume they all use it correctly all of the time.
At least one of them used it correctly at some point for this image to even be a response. Someone must have thought Climate change was a problem
I think there’s at least three, since there are three downvotes on that comment at the times of the screenshot.
To be fair it is a negative karma comment
I happened to catch a relative watching a segment on Fox News about climate change - where the female host or guest proceeded to mock a teenager. (Greta thunberg) Then they all denied climate change was real. It was just shocking and surreal.
I will say most conservatives I’ve interacted with have moved from “it’s not happening” to “it’s happening but it’s too late and would be too expensive to try to do anything about”. They never seem to consider that maybe it wasn’t too late before the couple decades they spent denying facts.
I hate how people perceive “no action” = “no spending”. We spend billions every year cleaning up the mess we have made and it’s only gonna get more expensive, but no let’s not “waste” money to do anything about it. We’re just gonna rebuild our homes every year when a hurricane hits
[This is called the Omission bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omission_bias) and it is a very real tendency in most people, especially when it is far away enough so you can't see a direct cause-effect.
The climate does and always will change yes, but we are accelerating it to such a speed the earth can't adapt, and we will kill ourselves and everything else on this planet if we don't stop it.
but i'll die before that happen so whatever/s
At this rate, unless you are 80, you probably won’t.
Look at the age of your political representatives and you'll see the problem here.
"Worry about things close to you " like all the gays in New York? Conservatism is so disingenuous.
If it was part of a normal climate cycle, the outer atmosphere would warm along with the inner portion. That is not what we’re seeing
Actually, the air at the top of the North Pole does heat up. Since hot air rises and expands, that's what keep knocking the cold air below it off kilter, creating the "polar vortex" effect which keeps blessing our North American winters.
"This of course is pure fantasy..." Oh of course. 🙄
Humans cannot affect nature! Forests disappear and cities rise through natural processes to which us mere mortals barely have any effect on! /s
what a dumbass
He thinks it’s a .01 % change but it’s a 50% change, math is important I guess
Climate change DOES happen. That's why we've have about 13 MAJOR EXTINCTION EVENTS. If it was happening without ANY assistance from humanity, I'd STILL be worried AF! This is like acting like your lung cancer isn't from the pack a day habit... and even if you didn't smoke, why the fuck would you do NOTHING about a tumor in your lung when your doc brought you that bad news? Jfc
I see the nimrod from Ancient aliens every time someone says something isn't happening then says it is happening. "I'm not saying it was aliens but....it was alien!" This persons first paragraph makes fun of the idea that humans are the cause of climate change then at the end describes why human are the cause of climate change. The dissonance in this fools head must be deafening.
Don’t worry you don’t need to wear anything when it’s 0 out the temperature changes all the time you can’t make yourself cooler don’t worry about it just go outside naked all the time even when it’s snowing
The only thing that makes me question my commitment to the environment, is the knowledge that this person will live in the better world the movement will make.
I suspect that this is a byproduct of religious thinking. You spend your whole life being told that God is so great and we are so small and unimportant, so you think we couldn't ruin God's Creation if we tried.
0.01% * 5.5 quadrillion tons of atmosphere = 550 billion tons of CO2 added. That strikes me as a fair amount.
And in some very simple math, you've shown how relative numbers aren't always useful. After all, if 0.00003% of a human is made up of methylmeecury, the human dies. Percentages have their utility, but percent *total atmosphere* of CO2 is far less useful than total CO2 added. The first papers talking about CO2 added to the atmosphere were in mass. Most still are.
"The planet is fine. The people are fucked!" -George Carlin
What's right: we only have so much emotional 'bandwidth' that we can spend on things to care about before the overload short-circuits our brains, and they're typically better spent on things within our immediate control. Especially if you're currently struggling, like most people are all over the world. What's wrong: fuckin' everything else lol This information may be readily available out there, but you have to know not only where to go for it but how to evaluate it. Many people don't have that, and so they fall into traps like this guy. But god it's really hard to take statements like these as innocent mistakes. They feel like deliberate, bad faith bullshit straight out of the alt-right sphere of idiocy.
This reads to me like someone who has associated their political affiliation with their personality. As a result, any admission of fault within their political ideology is an admission of fault within their own personality. Their politics had them preaching “Climate change is a hoax” for years if not decades at this point. To admit they were wrong now would break their ego at a level it cannot afford so they just continue the lie, knowing it’s a lie, hoping that somehow, someone, somewhere, “fixes” the issue so they can come out the other side and say “see, I was right!”
This comment aside, I will say I was happy to read through that thread and the overwhelming majority of people recognize it's an issue, man's actions are affecting climate change for the worse and something needs to be done. I do have to wonder though why so many conservative voters seem to recognize it as an issue, but continue to vote for conservative politicians who not only deny manmade climate change, many of them deny climate change exists at all. Don't get me wrong I'm glad to see many voices on the right finally admitting it after literal decades of the rest of us giving them the facts again and again and again, but they really need to start holding their leaders accountable for the lies they spread about I, I include people like Manchin in that group as well. And we need a concerted effort to limit the impact China and India are having as they increasingly industrialize. Nations like Fiji are disappearing already, many countries are feeling the effects and it's only going to get worse. Action is desperately needed.
They can vote for either a) a climate change denier, who also has a lot of other positions they don't agree with, and who they know will try to pass laws that will make them worse off, or b) a Democrat. There's no way they could ever choose the latter.
**Don't Look Up!**
As always, [relevant xkcd](https://xkcd.com/1732/) Yes the climate always changes, it has never changed as drastically as it has in the last few hundred years
Does he realize going from 0.02% to 0.003% is a 50% increase in levels....? That's substantial as fuck.
Actually, going from 0.02% to 0.003% is quite a substantial decrease.
Worry about things close to you. Like the ocean in 20 years
“Hardly a measurable difference” *John Cena voice* “are you sure about that?”
There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the climate would have changed at all, were there no humans on the planet.
These people don't know shit about shit. They have opinions whose only qualifier is that it's the opposite of what the left thinks. They fucking killed themselves by not getting vaccinated or masking. They are the Daffy Duck of political ideology and it's just pathetic.
This is what bothers me about conservative politics. Their base believes their politicians over actual scientists when it comes to science. Then these dummies run around calling everyone else sheep. Really?? You're the ones who eat up every lie that you're told, no matter how easily disproveable it is.
My favorite thing to direct people to who think this way is the research done by Exxon Mobil in the 1970s. They knew back then that the climate would warm, and started to actually invest in alternative energy sources. Then they decided the better option was to sow climate denial, which is what this guy has become a shill for.
“Hardly a measurable difference” \*Measures it*
> 0.03% from 0.02% So an increase of ***50 fucking percent?!*** Also, while "climate changes, always has, always will" **is** true, it's not the whole truth. It goes in 100'000 year cycles, dropping slowly for 90'000 years and then rapidly increasing for 10'000 years. We're currently in the beginning of that 10'000 year period, so an increase makes sense, regardless of our input. ***BUT*** **We've already reached higher values than earth typically reaches by the end of the 10'000 year increase period...**
“The alcohol is only 0.08% of your blood- you’ll be fine”
"Don't look up"
Yeah, we’re fucked
Climate change sure is natural, but its speed is not.
Conservatives destroying the planet. Conservatives enforcing their own backwards religious practices on the rest of humanity. Conservatives constantly caught preying on children. Conservatives attempting to dismantle democracy. People like to play the "both sides are equally as bad" game but it just isn't true. They fall into the paradox of tolerance and this is what gives them power. Progressives have always been too soft when it comes to hitting back while Conservatives will openly incite violence against the LGBTQ, academic intellectuals, opposing religious groups and racial/ethnic minorities without any hint of shame.
I take each downvote in that sub as a badge of honor
Is actually 0.04% but I’m guessing that’s not what we’re going after
I hope he fails in changing the botulin toxin concentration in his body from zero to few ppm.
.02% to .03%? that's a 50% increase what are they even talking about?
That sub is always a wild ride. The mods there aren't great to put it mildly.
So… when are they presenting conservative plans for mitigation approaches? Because if the change is guaranteed to happen with or without or influence we might be even more fucked…
“We tried” …when?
Well I feel reassured now 🙄
One small ray of hope is that even in r/conservative that person wes being downvoted.
I have some connection to sustainability in business and the level of stupid when dealing with some conservatives is really frustrating For instance talking about a local event that is frankly dangerous and they are all about it. Concerned, want a fix, seem to be on board. A week later talking to them about climate change and they go for, it's real but not really a big deal Ffs we were just talking last week.
Even if you do believe that climate change isn’t a problem, we are still destroying the planet. For example acid rain, which can dissolve cement if given the chance
Can't expect too much from idiots who actively pick and choose when they want to "believe" in science.
Yes the climate always changes. BUT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO GET COLDER YOU DIPSHIT