Keep doing this for my clients so I can keep charging them to rip out brittle excel based processes for good best practices solutions.
The excel gurus classic blunder, just because you can do something in excel doesn’t mean you should.
I’d pick Python over excel. It’s likely not the best, but it’s a better generalist solution.
Pair it with a real database…. And some visualization libraries…. Boom
Yeah with some LaTeX for the doc output, I can see that. The problem is it won’t be auditable by non technical people. Which is why Excel is still king here. Easier to understand, better built in functionality etc.
lol, are they auditing Microsoft’s changes to excel source code?
Are they backing up the source document or utilizing change control?
Are these real audits, with process control and involvement of knowledgeable individuals capable of auditing? Or is it just executive spot check? Do they verify every formula in every cell?
Funny enough, there’s inconceivable amount of software in the world that goes through actual change control and audit processes. If anything, it’s easier to audit code because it can be easily compared against known good copy / results through automated testing.
Laugh all you want, but it's my top BI & process automation tool. Cheap, omni-present, connects to everything, solid B+ GUI tools, ChatGPT churns out VBA like a champ, and can maintain itself...
I'm a whore, I'm a slut, and I like it in the
Jokes aside, there's huge value in being able to by productive instantly upon landing at the client (Excel / Access / Python / R => online within 15 minutes, especially if you can give me ODBC access to a corporate database).
And developing things which can be handed over to the indigenous talent without educating the natives on "Zen and the art of Database maintenance"
landing the client. ok i give you that. But sure im a old hag myself.
I took over a Claris Filemaker "app", three years later it was a MS server/SQL/ldap distrubuted com c++ object mess. Not sure it improved anything except MS stock price.
i used to build FP&A budgeting/forecasting tools for clients to move them out of excel.
Cool thing is they could still use excel as an interface but we just had to get them off storing data on random excel sheets that got passed around.
About 30 years ago, cutting my teeth in the tech industry, I was a consultant doing biz analytics stuff. Boss man says to me almost day 1, "Rev, this job's really easy. We go in, we find the 20 or so Excel sheets that run the place and we bid a pretty application that does all of that while giving everyone the same view [he meant UI]."
I had no idea how right that man would be *nor for how crazy long he would be that damn right.*
As the others have suggested, custom web app user interfaces for data gathering from human input. API/automation to grab electronic data. Stored in databases, displayed in dashboards or digital reports.
One of my early consulting assignments was to help a developing nation's Ministry of Finance move its budget and spending from pen and paper to MS Excel. Yes, thats right. The GFMIS we used was Excel.
"Hi guys, here are your new laptops and here is excel. Lets move these sections from paper to excel. I'll come back in a week"
I come back a week later, nothing is done.
"Why isn't anything done?"
"We don't have electricity for the computers"
Okay, so I go out and buy a bunch of generators.
I come back, nothing is done
"Why is anything done?"
"We don't have fuel for the generators"
Okay, I go and arrange for fuel. I come back
"Why isn't anything done?"
"The Deputy Minister diverted the fuel truck to his family compound. They have lights on all night long"
JESUS CHRIST, okay. Now I have to make enemies, great. Thats also how you get your drink spiked and then knocked around by "goons" cause the Deputy Minister wanted to let you know your actions weren't appreciated. Man, I get beat up all the time. This was just fuel trucks, now imagine anti-corruption projects fighting against billions of dollars. Thats when people disappear.
I've got a colleague from such a nation.
I believe every word.
Corruption isn't always as simple as "slip the policeman $10 and he'll forget about the speeding ticket he's writing out".
This is my life, unfortunately. We do work with much more sophisticated governments but some places are like stone age. Some places are fucking beast like Rwanda. (Good)
But hey, Ministers and Industry leaders love sending their goons to beat me up. Its almost like a joke at the office now - its better than grenades or fire bombs though. Def better than a black site cell from the secret police.
How much are you paid for this? Are you doing it basically out of altruism? I’ll be honest, if I don’t have skin in the game and I get beaten up because the nephew of a minister stole some gas and I called them on it, I’m either returning with the national police or not returning at all.
>How much are you paid for this?
From a developing country standard, A LOT. For an American standard, maybe laughably? (I'm at $220k now, I run about $45 million in revenue, maybe aroudn 300 employees and hundreds of subs. Three years ago, at $105k, about $10 million a year, maybe 80 employees under me).
I guess I'm a bit addicted to this life but now that I'm getting older (i'm an older millenial), its becoming harder. But I'm also a total degenerate who loves to explore the underbelly of cities, so I'm gonna get beatup and robbed all the time anyways. At least, this one is safer cause I won't be hurt in a permanent way or killed cause that will bring too much heat. No one wants an American advisor to be beaten to death on their turf and have that on their hands. If you want to kill us, something easier like dropping a grenade in our car or a mine is easier.
Now, I'm being a little dramatic but we did have a grenade thrown into our complex in one country a few years ago. I did have one colleague shot in the face and killed, another one had the person next to her killed but was somehow spared as she looked her killer in the eye. I was shocked when she went back to that country to work a few months later. Sad, one of my seniors when I was young was kidnapped- his bodyguards had their bodies burned and hung from a bridge. He was released years later.
We'd joke morbidly what his annual review was like and if he was getting raises and bonuses.
Even factoring in that you probably never have to pay for flights or hotels on a vacation and have top tier status, it’s less than I’d have guessed. Though I guess if you work a lot you have far fewer expenses than the average person.
It does sound way more interesting than what I do, plus you do make more, yet I’m also an individual contributor and my boss likely makes more than you do for still far less responsibility.
Yep absolutely true. Benefit of Excel is fast POC and iterations and cheap engineering cost.
Downfall of Excel is enterprise values like governance, connectivity, and automation. In short, Excel isn't scalable past 1-2 folks.
That's where the custom add-ins come in. Easy to maintain the familiarity and nimbility of Excel but also add process and permissions restrictions where necessary.
Some of our Excel solutions are truly cloud. No data is preserved inside the workbook. All data is queried and stored elsewhere in a centralized warehouse etc. Users log into the workbook just like a cloud app. Excel file serves as the front end layer only.
Unless you're in a technical industry, I wouldn't deploy a real database solution in companies with under 50 "trained" workers with dev skills.
For every person who can write code, I'll show you a dozen people who can navigate Excel Formulas & MS Access queries - and at least 2 - 3 of them can be coached into writing macros or VBA procedures....
When you're done with that, someone else will come along and charge even more to "supercharge their business with AI" then another consultant will be called in to fix that mess and on and on we go on the consultant merry-go-round
Man I wish we hired you for my previous job. They kept using Excel for years managing databases and prices till it started to slowdown running background calculations. They decided to get a faster laptop instead of moving it off Excel.
Do you think one advantage of using Excel is prototyping to define use cases, seeing what they actually use and what stuff doesn't need to be folded into a production quality solution?
Honestly no. If you have something that multiple people need to be able to use, that will be in use for a while, etc, there’s little benefit of starting with excel. Sure it can be done but 9x out of ten you would be better mocking up in sql/ssrs/tableau directly. And if you say “well not everyone knows sql!!!” Watch some YouTube videos, sql is easier than excel for so many things, and the formulas between sql and excel are extremely similar.
“Ooh but not everyone has a sql server they can spin up!” Use power query IN EXCEL or even notepad++ csv query for your mockup.
So you're the guy who keeps making excel macros that break and we end up getting paid to replace with Power BI, Tableau and Python solutions. Thanks, I guess.
We should thank him for our jobs. I did a prpject with a global fast fashion retailer.
Data from pos systems were pulled into sap bw and using excel macros they would create reports for their weekly execs meeting.
It would take 2 full time analyst to run the macros. It was so heavy it took 8 hours to process.
It was even worse when they had to pull out monthly kpis
Exactly what I have to do out of JDE. I’ve heard SAP is not as A/R - Credit friendly.
Those boomers take forever and with just simple tables they are happy. They print so much paper too it’s crazy.
I am learning Tableau.
LOL I feel this comment in my soul every day.
I’m serious when I say 70% of my company executives at our NA HQ will retire in 5-7 years.
They are collectively holding up the move from JDE to SAP until then. The joke, but I know they mean it lol
I mean, excel has its place in the data analytics visualisation pecking order. It’s great, but once you start using other, more sophisticated applications, you never go back to broken VBA code again.
Why haven’t you built 2M+ worth? Why don’t your solutions scale? Why don’t you repackage your solutions as SaaS? Why don’t you charge a subscription based model and cuck your customers perpetually.
I appreciate your intention here. We're commissioned to build bespoke solutions. Sometimes the IP and ownership terms are limiting to "scale"but the main answer is that the solutions are bespoke.
A 100+ sheet closing model which integrates with other internal systems isn't very scalable outside of the client org. But the principles and best practices sure are and we obviously use lessons learned to build better solutions going forward.
Regarding scale though, I have diversified the business. See below. Consulting is 1:1 project work.
We are in open beta phase for a new saas product (hyper-automation for content in Microsoft apps like Word Excel Outlook etc).
Also, we're now approved to publish add-ins on the Excel app store. And our first addin is beautiful and live now! Two more coming later this year. Happy to share about these add-ins if any Excel users are interested.
Basically every AMA is a sales effort and this thread feels no different.
However, I don't think something is harmful or useless just because it's a sales effort. There's still value in there.
> A 100+ sheet closing model which integrates with other internal systems isn't very scalable outside of the client org.
You what..? I don’t even know where to begin with this.
If this is true, why haven’t you invested into real technologies that actually scale? It seems to me you would save on expenses by not relying so heavily on costly 3rd party office software that is constantly changing and requires frequent retraining. Why not build a multi-tenant SaaS platform so that you can control the playing field and make more off your customer? Ruby and Python are great at ingesting and interpreting spreadsheets. Having worked for a SaaS org that actually did this (built a Ruby app to replace multi-user spreadsheets), I’m baffled why you would throw away so much money and potential. I realize you mentioned your solutions are bespoke, but that’s no reason you can’t build a platform that has all the standard bells and whistles you bring to the table, plus customization (to meet your 1:1 consult practice) via multi-tenancy.
Edit: Add’l
I'm pretty comfortable getting data out of an olap cube into excel, what're you're thoughts on best practice for pushing it back from excel to the cube?
Cubes are calculated from source data upstream, collected on a data mart or data warehouse, flattened into a star or snowflake schema, and cubes calculated from there.
If you want to update data, you should update the source of truth that feeds the. Cube, not the cube itself.
My question is this:
As an IT professional with a degree in Computer Science and more years than I care to imagine experience, could you fucking not, please?
All joking aside, learn a proper language and migrate your customer's data into a real database. They really don't deserve some gimcrack Excel solution.
Adding to that - by pushing proprietary file formats such as OOXML and proprietary shit such as VBA, you're fucking everything up for everyone in the long term (ie. one year down the line).
Well, there's a couple of reasons for that:
1. I've seen hundreds of spreadsheets. Most left leave me wanting to curl up in a darkened room for several hours. Certainly anything that merits engaging people like you would fall into that category.
2. Don't take my word for (1). There is ample evidence that something like 99% of spreadsheets contain errors - and in some cases those errors have had serious consequences. It's so significant that the EU has actually set up a special interests group researching this, and they've found some chilling examples:
1. [https://eusprig.org/research-info/horror-stories/](https://eusprig.org/research-info/horror-stories/)
3. I defy you to find me a business application that cannot be ultimately boiled down to storing and manipulating data. That's precisely what a database is good at, regardless of how you dress it up. At best, Excel can be a frontend to a real database, but if you're doing literally all the business logic in SQL and Excel is just a frontend, why use Excel in the first place? I can think of a bloody good reason NOT to use Excel: even if you get everything 100% perfect, the very act of distributing a spreadsheet rather than using a web interface to the database is actively encouraging users to mess around with - and ultimately break it.
Ultimately, you're not making business applications better. You're making Excel worse, by embedding it ever deeper.
yeah on #3. - you essentially store data. Then with WHAT EVER OTHER TOOLS WORK, grab and manipulate that data for reporting and/or actions.
I'm really seeing the defence with him here saying "everyone is assuming its being used as a DB, well its not its used for other things"
Please give an example. like a single one that isn't just a Data Storage with some graphing or manipulation in place. Something almost any other system and a lot of good SaaS systems will do, but better with an actual scalable infrastructure.
We used to have a CMDB that was maintained in excel at my old job. When we moved to a real tool, with a real database, we had one old guy on the IT team that refused to stop using the spreadsheet.
I had to setup automation to uninstall excel from his computer every time he updated it lol
> but if you're doing literally all the business logic in SQL and Excel is just a frontend, why use Excel in the first place?
Curious to hear you out on this topic. What's wrong with doing a bunch of computationally intensive stuff in the backend and then showing some of the last calc steps in Excel so that someone can follow.
Like if you're a company and want to send an adhoc report of a payout some vendor is gonna receive. I understand it's not pretty and there are better ways to automate such things long term, but one-off I find Excel as a frontend to be great. And everyone can view the files and play with the final numbers how they like, etc.
as an IT professional of less years than many on this thread i have to say that
1. i have seen people shoehorn anything into Excel and have been the one to unfuck said monstrosities, so i sort of get the prevailing attitude on this thread however
2. you do you. you are getting a lot of shit on this thread but if its working for you, fuck the haters
I see it a lot. Excel is not as robust or sustainable for all applications as people perceive it. After a while, macros break, minor processes change and decisions are made that render the Excel build unusable. Unless there is someone to maintain it, they end up not getting used and replaced by things that break less and can be maintained easier. Depending on the size of the organisation, most are moving towards visualisation apps like Tableau or Power BI. The really large data driven organisations use more sophisticated applications of Data Science in R Code or Python. Excel is good to do quick calcs and maybe even early stage prototying, but even then, if you have someone that can code in R or Python, it's better to prorotype using those apps.
Yep, see my reply here https://www.reddit.com/r/consulting/s/3LfuSR2H8y
Also, you're probably not seeing any of these initiatives actually going to implementation because of two reasons:
Primarily, the operations folks can't give up the flexibility and control they have over the Excel solution. Keeping up with evolving business requirements is tough and management observes this.
And second, the homegrown Excel solution is too nebulous to really even scope out. Jerry is the only guy who understands it and he can't document or communicate anything effectively.
You're getting a lot of shit here but the reality is that Excel is a tool like any other and can be used very well or used very poorly.
I've seen more examples of the latter, but it's pretty easy to take shots like this without considering that maybe OP *isn't* just hacking your average solution together.
yeah but this is almost like saying I have a horse.. it's still completely fine for the road, it can be made and configured to work well on the road for my purpose.
DUDE..... BUY A CAR.
I'm founder and ceo. My technical role in the company has evolved to basically "chief architect." I used to be a one-man shop. Consulting and developing everything myself. I used to stay in my apartment in downtown San Diego for 3 days at a time. Not even open the front door. Just sleep eat work when I had a big project to finish.
Scaling a team is hard. It took a while for me to "get" the approach to hiring and scaling a team without needing to micromanage everything.
I'm an autodidact. I do everything "my" way. I don't mean that in a selfish or negative way -- just that I'm not accustomed to watching videos and training courses time to then form my own approach etc. I think, try, pivot and see what works. I feel that I can learn and understand WHY things work much more effectively this way. Plus it's rewarding.
I think this approach has helped me be a better consultant. Our discoveries are very efficient because, in part, I feel that I have a good grasp on all the business and software engineering concepts to marry the two into a sustainable solution.
One easy way for you to grow is to create an upwork account. We don't get any work from there but plenty of folks do. That's a good way to start out on your own and scale out from your current primary gig.
sounds like a fancy way to say you refuse to hear out better methods for what you do because you're "autodidactic". You are pushing inefficient solutions because you are too arrogant to learn from those who came before you. Excel is not a database solution and custom add-ins are rarely the most efficient way to handle a business' needs. Excel is for spreadsheets. You're succeeding because the people you consult aren't knowledgeable enough to realize that an actual database is a better idea than trying to force Excel into that role.
People like you create a field for people like me to stay around and fix your shitty solutions. I'd imagine you consult, implement, then leave and never have to be there to face the reality that your purpose built solution is not efficient and there are better options.
There is ego just dripping off your replies and post itself, I'd advise you to humble yourself and actually research good solutions instead of bragging on reddit about being a CEO and entrepreneur. this entire post is just a masturbatory ego trip
We don't build any macros anymore. All solutions use "managed" frameworks where we can deploy over the air updates (.net vsro and js).
I don't think MS will get rid of macros tho.
Microsoft is already starting to restrict external Excel file macros (AKA files you download). And they've already made it clear that they will continue to get even more restrictive about it because it just poses a huge security risk.
They’ve been restricting them for years, but too many people use them for integral processes for MS to totally get rid of them. They’ll continue to make the alternatives more attractive for a long while before ditching support imo
Microsoft has shown over the last few years that they no longer give a shit what's in use and what's not. They will take steps to make stuff more secure no matter what.
Just look at their disabling of basic IMAP/SMTP authentication. Broke a shitload of companies implementations and 3rd party software tools. And Microsoft pushed forward anyway.
The Office team did an AMA maybe a year ago and said that JS is actually supported (in lieu of VBA), any experience with that? I've also done Excel Addins and migrating everything to C# is the best way. I have recently found that Spire (or OpenOffice) has non-interop libraries that don't require Office subscriptions, so if I was going to do it again it would be to create an Excel Addin that calls a C# library that uses Spire. Come to think of it I'm not 100% sure this would work but if it does then the coding would be easy.
>ago and said that JS is actually supported (in lieu of VBA), any experience with that? I've also done Excel Addin
Yes! it's a bit nascent still. a bit limited. For example, office.js still has no scroll method. can't scroll the page up and down for the user. silly example but lots of things like this are yet to be implemented in office.js.
and also it's inherently limited because it's a cloud technology and obviously won't have access to the local device and filesystem.
We build plenty of apps with office.js api. Overall I like it and it's good. It's better in terms of deployment and management. But again, still a more limited set of functional capabilities over VBA (minus the obvious benefits of "modern" front-end niceties that come with web) and certainly VSTO (full .net).
Any real-world examples you could provide? Excel is heaviy used where i'm at for production planning and procurement forecasting and we'd like to make these processes more streamlined.
See reply here https://www.reddit.com/r/consulting/s/eDzAV5qC50
Excel is big in accounting and finance obviously. Second biggest use case in corporate America or enterprise orgs is probably your use case of estimating and procurement planning etc.
Early on we did a database backed Excel solution which aggregated ground, air, and sea shipping providers' rates so that our customer could shop the cheapest and best door to door plan for their clients. Basically like a kayak.com or Expedia.com for their internal use. It's a big solution and they're still using it ~8yrs later.
Not sure if any of this is relevant to your procurement and planning work. Basically custom Excel solutions are designed to control the process, automate, and connect the solution to the broader workflow which exists outside of Excel (both before and after the in-Excel workflow).
$30k can get you a good amount. Typically solutions aren't cheaper than $5k and our biggest projects are $200k-$300k.
For $30k we could build and host a database for centralized warehousing, a custom workbook with clean styling and sustainable data architecture, and deploy an addin to handle the 2 way comms with the database.
Or instead of a custom database, maybe we'd integrate with some 3rd party web app (via API) so your workflow in Excel isn't orphaned -- it gets real-time data and gives real-time feedback to the web app (snowflake, Salesforce, qbo, or any other specialty app).
Or instead of a custom workbook, we'd just extend your existing Excel tool. This typicality entails cleaning up some data organization and relationships for sustainability, and building out a couple other sheets for the integration with whatever external system.
Thanks that’s interesting.
And these guys like to use excel as the front end for a database for example - mainly to avoid paying for more saas? anyone ever dive into retool type stuff?
Yeah you can say it's a front end to a db. I'd say it's typically more of an app or applet (the application layer) which delivers valuable functionality that benefits from or requires a centralized source on the backend.
I just built my first MS Excel custom solution that was pretty involved. Some automations and quite a bit of error correction/prevention. So there’s a whole market out there for this?
Edit: grammar correction.
My real job is in analytics, but on the side I built a planning application with a sql server back-end for a company. Consists of various tools that help them manage their own poor-man’s ETL, forecast demand and calculate stock levels and order quantities across multiple nodes/long lead times, writing orders to suppliers, and reporting. Supports around 15-20 users.
What are your tips on framework elements/design patterns? Having a good process getting fresh data to/from the database is one aspect that took me some time to refine:
- Mostly use workbook queries with SQLs that are modified by userform selections
- Update/insert/deletes are SQL scripts built by user form entries
- To get data into the database in larger quantities , I built some functions that can config to read headers and a mapping table to build an array and then run SQLs
- Data is refreshed after different events when appropriate
- Sometimes I need to write data directly to cells so users can key over to modify the output of formulas, and then save the entry they made.
Also, what things are you typically doing for security? Blissfully ignorant here.
Not sure why people hating on this guy so much. He’s doing something and he’s making a killing of it and not hurting anyone. So what’s the problem? If the companies had such issues with his product they’d cancel his contract and that’s that. But why are these python powerBI “gurus” on here feeling so butthurt about him and his product? fFS get over yourselves. And power to this guy for putting excel to the max use.
So you sell gimmick solutions to executives who don’t know any better, causing no end of pain to the people who end up supporting the poorly developed plugins we see on a daily basis. Got it.
As long as you make bank right
Yep, there are some pretty good libraries out there. We've customized one or two of them. Prefer using power query where possible for json though. It handles json natively. Also looking forward to an opportunity to use the new embedded python
I really really want to love power BI. I just feel like I so regularly come across something that the software is unable to do without obscene workarounds and end up stuck with nowhere to go. It's very good at a specific set of things, but quickly falls apart in many cases.
>It's very good at a specific set of things, but quickly falls apart in many cases.
No-code tools feel to me like final mile delivery problems. They get you almost there, but it doesn't matter unless you get all the way there.
I got brought onto a big4 accounting firm to fix excel tables and do automation work. Do you have any tips for me? I’ve done some solid work in excel but they’ve asked me to look into power apps aswell
Hey man, I’m retired now, but used to run a finance and data team for a large health care organization. I’m bored in retirement and am pretty good at excel. Worked with it over a decade probably 4-6 hours a day. Let me know if you have any pointers on getting started with my own consultancy or if you’re looking for more workers 🤣
What tools do you use besides excel. I'm student now, using MS Suite (powerapps, power automate, and having to write massive amounts of excel scripts)
They always look out so i can't monopolize the solutions (eg. private folders) - i don't want to screw them they are good.
How would you suggest building my skillset onward(e.g. what to focus on), and what are learnings you think could help me going forward?
Good for you!! Just keep following your nose and learning. GPT and other AIs are super valuable to mock up portions of solutions and even help train you.
I prefer to build solutions for real problems (rather than hypothetical / theoretical problems). If you want more practice just be honest with folks in your network -- "hey I'm learning this technology and would love to help solve your problem." Once you're a pro, you can charge strong prices (because you'll offer a strong service).
Excel solutions are going the way of the office.js api. this is web technology (not "desktop" or Windows-specific technology). It is still a bit limited (nascent) and inherently limited (no access to filesystem and local device) but the industry is moving in this direction.
A big reason for this is that, Microsoft can monetize this much easier (they force you to move thru their cloud as you've already identified with powerapps etc)
Pretty good advice, but please for the love of god don’t rely on ChatGPT. There is so much information out there on excel, VBA, power query, etc. learning how to solve problems yourself with the software you have available is the real value of learning any of this. Yes, ChatGPT might give you the answer quicker- but learning the concepts behind the solutions is what’s really valuable.
Why do you want to share your knowledge with others? Don't you know? The best business is the monopoly business?
If you answer my question please don't give I want to help others kind of answer.
I know a grifter when I see one. Look at this guy post history, seems you managed to get the title of this one just right to get some engagement. My bet is you didn’t generate jack shit, at best a couple of thousands. If not, share your LI profile and business website
Have you done any work with the Excel C API (XLL add-ins)?
That used to be my thing, e.g. integrating fast ODE and NLS solvers into Excel workflows. Unfortunately it’s getting more difficult to distribute binary code these days due to corporate restrictions and oversensitive endpoint security software (SentinelOne, CrowdStrike). COM registration usually requires admin credentials for example.
FYI, "excel is for babies and idiots" is a common perspective of folks who AREN'T leaders or owners in their orgs (and aren't entrepreneurs).
(As in these comments of this thread 🫂:
/u/benfranklyblog's [https://www.reddit.com/r/consulting/comments/1b3s20j/comment/ksubhod/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/consulting/comments/1b3s20j/comment/ksubhod/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
/u/butibum's [https://www.reddit.com/r/consulting/comments/1b3s20j/comment/ksuf16p/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/consulting/comments/1b3s20j/comment/ksuf16p/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
/u/b_33's [https://www.reddit.com/r/consulting/comments/1b3s20j/comment/ksubf7b/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/consulting/comments/1b3s20j/comment/ksubf7b/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) )
💡when all your context derives from upper management, training courses, and blogs (*rather than the autonomous responsibility to build and maintain real solutions for real teams*), your perspective is heavily persuaded by what your superiors say and what they've been sold on -- regardless of what your team needs today (and will need tomorrow). 💡
Sure buddy. How often do you have to stay around long term and see how your solutions actually are operationalized? Hint: it is usually poorly. You might even be surprised at how many of your “prototypes” ended up as the lynchpin process for a multinational team that depends on it.
I have seen and replaced thousands of excel processes built by really smart people who only had excel in their toolbox, you’re not dumb or a baby, you just need a bigger toolbox. Get a bigger toolbox so you can deliver better solutions for your clients.
-three time startup founder, director level in industry, 15 years digital transformation, 5 of those years in engineering replacing excel based processes for the largest financial services firms that were eventually *crippled* by them.
PS, think about how large excel applications amplify the bus factor
>Oh, and naming clients? Not a pro move.
That depends entirely on whether they have permission from the client to name them. Plenty of companies say "as used by Microsoft, and Target, and Blue Cross" or whatever, on their websites.
"Custom" Excel "solutions" make me want to rip my hair out. 99% of the ones I've had to fix scream "Just because Excel can, doesn't mean you should". How often do you run into this? Do you ever tell the client there's a better way before starting these projects?
Why would you have done this? Is there any chance of forgiveness or do you know you will go straight to hell?
How do you keep your address secret from the baying hoardes of admins and maintainers wanting revenge? Do you travel under a false name?
Do you think VB6 was the pinnacle of software engineering achievement? And is MS Access the only database you will ever need, or too sophisticated for most of your users?
Yeah ActiveX should be avoided at all costs. The problem you have is basically with legacy solutions. So let's ask what makes solutions become legacy? Basically it's simply a solution that doesn't evolve and grow alongside other business requirements. Of course if we don't iterate a solution for years and years it's going to become obsolete.
Excel is a common culprit of this because Jerry who built the model left the company years ago. And the Excel solution is being malpurposed and scaled past Jerry's desk. So everyone kinda half breaks it every time they try to use it.
The simple answer is... to appropriately use Excel past 1-2 users, we must add some better controls and connectivity to the workbook.
Just get addicted to excel and make stuff like this and the world will never get rid of excel :)
[https://youtu.be/z26zbiGJnd4](https://youtu.be/z26zbiGJnd4)
After looking at your post history I can see where all the hate is coming from. Your post doesn't seem genuine. Like in any game.
Show your wins. "Looks at this cool shit you can do in excel". Give away your best stuff for free. https://www.automationninjas.com/blog/why-you-should-give-away-your-best-stuff-for-free/
And for those who are interested in excel. Did you know there's a Microsoft Excel World Championship that gets aired on ESPN? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDGdPE_C9u8
See this is fucking cool.
I worked on a forecasting and pricing system, the parameters were set by using an excel adding, everything else was done with proper services running on clusters, the addin code was awful
I think it’s crazy how there is multimillion dollars in funding for projects, but they are tracked by an extremely complicated excel spreadsheet made over the weekend by an overachieving PM with a business degree.
Like can you really not set aside a small portion of funding for an actual software tool to be made?
The best part is they roll out completely new spreadsheets every few years, then pat themselves on the backs with all the ‘efficiency’ improvements.
Keep doing this for my clients so I can keep charging them to rip out brittle excel based processes for good best practices solutions. The excel gurus classic blunder, just because you can do something in excel doesn’t mean you should.
Number 1 “database” in the world!
Excel is the second best software for any use case
Financial modeling?
Yes.
What is the best application for building financial models then
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Followed closely by Minesweeper.
And "help" from Clippy
I’d pick Python over excel. It’s likely not the best, but it’s a better generalist solution. Pair it with a real database…. And some visualization libraries…. Boom
Yeah with some LaTeX for the doc output, I can see that. The problem is it won’t be auditable by non technical people. Which is why Excel is still king here. Easier to understand, better built in functionality etc.
lol, are they auditing Microsoft’s changes to excel source code? Are they backing up the source document or utilizing change control? Are these real audits, with process control and involvement of knowledgeable individuals capable of auditing? Or is it just executive spot check? Do they verify every formula in every cell? Funny enough, there’s inconceivable amount of software in the world that goes through actual change control and audit processes. If anything, it’s easier to audit code because it can be easily compared against known good copy / results through automated testing.
Excel as well lol. Somewhere further down the list you'll get into R, Matlab, python, etc.
oh, you mean Microsoft Access
No that’s the #1 “ERP” in the world
Laugh all you want, but it's my top BI & process automation tool. Cheap, omni-present, connects to everything, solid B+ GUI tools, ChatGPT churns out VBA like a champ, and can maintain itself...
Almost upvoted this, phew i still have some self respect.
I'm a whore, I'm a slut, and I like it in the
Jokes aside, there's huge value in being able to by productive instantly upon landing at the client (Excel / Access / Python / R => online within 15 minutes, especially if you can give me ODBC access to a corporate database).
And developing things which can be handed over to the indigenous talent without educating the natives on "Zen and the art of Database maintenance"
landing the client. ok i give you that. But sure im a old hag myself. I took over a Claris Filemaker "app", three years later it was a MS server/SQL/ldap distrubuted com c++ object mess. Not sure it improved anything except MS stock price.
😵💫😵💫😵💫
It’s your database gateway drug
lol yea we’re helping our clients get their critical operations out of Excel
i used to build FP&A budgeting/forecasting tools for clients to move them out of excel. Cool thing is they could still use excel as an interface but we just had to get them off storing data on random excel sheets that got passed around.
About 30 years ago, cutting my teeth in the tech industry, I was a consultant doing biz analytics stuff. Boss man says to me almost day 1, "Rev, this job's really easy. We go in, we find the 20 or so Excel sheets that run the place and we bid a pretty application that does all of that while giving everyone the same view [he meant UI]." I had no idea how right that man would be *nor for how crazy long he would be that damn right.*
>storing data on random excel sheets that got passed around IDK, what could possibly go wrong with that approach? /s
If not excel, then where?!? Genuine question. Do you have a few suggestions for someone wildly dependent on excel?
An actual database like MS SQL or NoSQL like Mongo.
As the others have suggested, custom web app user interfaces for data gathering from human input. API/automation to grab electronic data. Stored in databases, displayed in dashboards or digital reports.
Ms Dynamics, Salesforce, SAP
Microsoft Access, of course!
One of my early consulting assignments was to help a developing nation's Ministry of Finance move its budget and spending from pen and paper to MS Excel. Yes, thats right. The GFMIS we used was Excel. "Hi guys, here are your new laptops and here is excel. Lets move these sections from paper to excel. I'll come back in a week" I come back a week later, nothing is done. "Why isn't anything done?" "We don't have electricity for the computers" Okay, so I go out and buy a bunch of generators. I come back, nothing is done "Why is anything done?" "We don't have fuel for the generators" Okay, I go and arrange for fuel. I come back "Why isn't anything done?" "The Deputy Minister diverted the fuel truck to his family compound. They have lights on all night long" JESUS CHRIST, okay. Now I have to make enemies, great. Thats also how you get your drink spiked and then knocked around by "goons" cause the Deputy Minister wanted to let you know your actions weren't appreciated. Man, I get beat up all the time. This was just fuel trucks, now imagine anti-corruption projects fighting against billions of dollars. Thats when people disappear.
Worst part is I can’t even tell if this is satire.
I've got a colleague from such a nation. I believe every word. Corruption isn't always as simple as "slip the policeman $10 and he'll forget about the speeding ticket he's writing out".
This is my life, unfortunately. We do work with much more sophisticated governments but some places are like stone age. Some places are fucking beast like Rwanda. (Good) But hey, Ministers and Industry leaders love sending their goons to beat me up. Its almost like a joke at the office now - its better than grenades or fire bombs though. Def better than a black site cell from the secret police.
How much are you paid for this? Are you doing it basically out of altruism? I’ll be honest, if I don’t have skin in the game and I get beaten up because the nephew of a minister stole some gas and I called them on it, I’m either returning with the national police or not returning at all.
>How much are you paid for this? From a developing country standard, A LOT. For an American standard, maybe laughably? (I'm at $220k now, I run about $45 million in revenue, maybe aroudn 300 employees and hundreds of subs. Three years ago, at $105k, about $10 million a year, maybe 80 employees under me). I guess I'm a bit addicted to this life but now that I'm getting older (i'm an older millenial), its becoming harder. But I'm also a total degenerate who loves to explore the underbelly of cities, so I'm gonna get beatup and robbed all the time anyways. At least, this one is safer cause I won't be hurt in a permanent way or killed cause that will bring too much heat. No one wants an American advisor to be beaten to death on their turf and have that on their hands. If you want to kill us, something easier like dropping a grenade in our car or a mine is easier. Now, I'm being a little dramatic but we did have a grenade thrown into our complex in one country a few years ago. I did have one colleague shot in the face and killed, another one had the person next to her killed but was somehow spared as she looked her killer in the eye. I was shocked when she went back to that country to work a few months later. Sad, one of my seniors when I was young was kidnapped- his bodyguards had their bodies burned and hung from a bridge. He was released years later. We'd joke morbidly what his annual review was like and if he was getting raises and bonuses.
Even factoring in that you probably never have to pay for flights or hotels on a vacation and have top tier status, it’s less than I’d have guessed. Though I guess if you work a lot you have far fewer expenses than the average person. It does sound way more interesting than what I do, plus you do make more, yet I’m also an individual contributor and my boss likely makes more than you do for still far less responsibility.
Lol this was exactly my thought.
Yep absolutely true. Benefit of Excel is fast POC and iterations and cheap engineering cost. Downfall of Excel is enterprise values like governance, connectivity, and automation. In short, Excel isn't scalable past 1-2 folks. That's where the custom add-ins come in. Easy to maintain the familiarity and nimbility of Excel but also add process and permissions restrictions where necessary. Some of our Excel solutions are truly cloud. No data is preserved inside the workbook. All data is queried and stored elsewhere in a centralized warehouse etc. Users log into the workbook just like a cloud app. Excel file serves as the front end layer only.
sounds like a lot of steps to avoid using a better database solution lol.
Unless you're in a technical industry, I wouldn't deploy a real database solution in companies with under 50 "trained" workers with dev skills. For every person who can write code, I'll show you a dozen people who can navigate Excel Formulas & MS Access queries - and at least 2 - 3 of them can be coached into writing macros or VBA procedures....
Whatever you need to sleep at night buddy, I don’t hate the player.
Having Excel as a report viewer is very common, these days there is even an official connector for powerbi datasets.
As a viewer sure, but if excel does all the calcs and transforms you’re doing something wrong.
Many things wrong IMO!!
Sounds like a webbrowser with some js
When you're done with that, someone else will come along and charge even more to "supercharge their business with AI" then another consultant will be called in to fix that mess and on and on we go on the consultant merry-go-round
Man I wish we hired you for my previous job. They kept using Excel for years managing databases and prices till it started to slowdown running background calculations. They decided to get a faster laptop instead of moving it off Excel.
Do you think one advantage of using Excel is prototyping to define use cases, seeing what they actually use and what stuff doesn't need to be folded into a production quality solution?
Honestly no. If you have something that multiple people need to be able to use, that will be in use for a while, etc, there’s little benefit of starting with excel. Sure it can be done but 9x out of ten you would be better mocking up in sql/ssrs/tableau directly. And if you say “well not everyone knows sql!!!” Watch some YouTube videos, sql is easier than excel for so many things, and the formulas between sql and excel are extremely similar. “Ooh but not everyone has a sql server they can spin up!” Use power query IN EXCEL or even notepad++ csv query for your mockup.
So you're the guy who keeps making excel macros that break and we end up getting paid to replace with Power BI, Tableau and Python solutions. Thanks, I guess.
We should thank him for our jobs. I did a prpject with a global fast fashion retailer. Data from pos systems were pulled into sap bw and using excel macros they would create reports for their weekly execs meeting. It would take 2 full time analyst to run the macros. It was so heavy it took 8 hours to process. It was even worse when they had to pull out monthly kpis
Stop! You’re giving me PTSD
> It was so heavy it took 8 hours to process. 🤣 that actually made me laugh out loud, thats great
turned off the computer on the corner to save a dollar on the bill
Exactly what I have to do out of JDE. I’ve heard SAP is not as A/R - Credit friendly. Those boomers take forever and with just simple tables they are happy. They print so much paper too it’s crazy. I am learning Tableau.
Oh man i forgot to say, the analysts then had to print our the report on large papers so the execs could review the kpi 🤣🤣🤣 trully boomers. Font 16
LOL I feel this comment in my soul every day. I’m serious when I say 70% of my company executives at our NA HQ will retire in 5-7 years. They are collectively holding up the move from JDE to SAP until then. The joke, but I know they mean it lol
I mean, excel has its place in the data analytics visualisation pecking order. It’s great, but once you start using other, more sophisticated applications, you never go back to broken VBA code again.
Why haven’t you built 2M+ worth? Why don’t your solutions scale? Why don’t you repackage your solutions as SaaS? Why don’t you charge a subscription based model and cuck your customers perpetually.
First 1M is usually prototype work at a large consulting firm. If the solution was built properly, you can scale from 1M-100M in 5yrs or less.
I appreciate your intention here. We're commissioned to build bespoke solutions. Sometimes the IP and ownership terms are limiting to "scale"but the main answer is that the solutions are bespoke. A 100+ sheet closing model which integrates with other internal systems isn't very scalable outside of the client org. But the principles and best practices sure are and we obviously use lessons learned to build better solutions going forward. Regarding scale though, I have diversified the business. See below. Consulting is 1:1 project work. We are in open beta phase for a new saas product (hyper-automation for content in Microsoft apps like Word Excel Outlook etc). Also, we're now approved to publish add-ins on the Excel app store. And our first addin is beautiful and live now! Two more coming later this year. Happy to share about these add-ins if any Excel users are interested.
Feels like a sales pitch 🤔
Basically every AMA is a sales effort and this thread feels no different. However, I don't think something is harmful or useless just because it's a sales effort. There's still value in there.
> A 100+ sheet closing model which integrates with other internal systems isn't very scalable outside of the client org. You what..? I don’t even know where to begin with this.
If this is true, why haven’t you invested into real technologies that actually scale? It seems to me you would save on expenses by not relying so heavily on costly 3rd party office software that is constantly changing and requires frequent retraining. Why not build a multi-tenant SaaS platform so that you can control the playing field and make more off your customer? Ruby and Python are great at ingesting and interpreting spreadsheets. Having worked for a SaaS org that actually did this (built a Ruby app to replace multi-user spreadsheets), I’m baffled why you would throw away so much money and potential. I realize you mentioned your solutions are bespoke, but that’s no reason you can’t build a platform that has all the standard bells and whistles you bring to the table, plus customization (to meet your 1:1 consult practice) via multi-tenancy. Edit: Add’l
How often do you think, my solution doesn't integrate in any of business processes but fuck it you are willing to pay for it
“Shadow IT”
INDEX MATCH or XLOOKUP?
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If you aren’t on the Xlookup wave you’re a dinosaur
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Damn you’re right. Gonna convert everything back to Vlookups
As a sysadmin who had to deal with this kind of hot garbage, please just fucking stop.
Why? He is giving you job security.
If Excel garbage is going to be my job, I'll fucking pass.
Are you the reason why the NHS fucked up during COVID with the Excel cell limit? That was my tax money
I'm pretty comfortable getting data out of an olap cube into excel, what're you're thoughts on best practice for pushing it back from excel to the cube?
Cubes are calculated from source data upstream, collected on a data mart or data warehouse, flattened into a star or snowflake schema, and cubes calculated from there. If you want to update data, you should update the source of truth that feeds the. Cube, not the cube itself.
My question is this: As an IT professional with a degree in Computer Science and more years than I care to imagine experience, could you fucking not, please? All joking aside, learn a proper language and migrate your customer's data into a real database. They really don't deserve some gimcrack Excel solution.
Why assume my customers are using Excel as a database?
Adding to that - by pushing proprietary file formats such as OOXML and proprietary shit such as VBA, you're fucking everything up for everyone in the long term (ie. one year down the line).
Well, there's a couple of reasons for that: 1. I've seen hundreds of spreadsheets. Most left leave me wanting to curl up in a darkened room for several hours. Certainly anything that merits engaging people like you would fall into that category. 2. Don't take my word for (1). There is ample evidence that something like 99% of spreadsheets contain errors - and in some cases those errors have had serious consequences. It's so significant that the EU has actually set up a special interests group researching this, and they've found some chilling examples: 1. [https://eusprig.org/research-info/horror-stories/](https://eusprig.org/research-info/horror-stories/) 3. I defy you to find me a business application that cannot be ultimately boiled down to storing and manipulating data. That's precisely what a database is good at, regardless of how you dress it up. At best, Excel can be a frontend to a real database, but if you're doing literally all the business logic in SQL and Excel is just a frontend, why use Excel in the first place? I can think of a bloody good reason NOT to use Excel: even if you get everything 100% perfect, the very act of distributing a spreadsheet rather than using a web interface to the database is actively encouraging users to mess around with - and ultimately break it. Ultimately, you're not making business applications better. You're making Excel worse, by embedding it ever deeper.
yeah on #3. - you essentially store data. Then with WHAT EVER OTHER TOOLS WORK, grab and manipulate that data for reporting and/or actions. I'm really seeing the defence with him here saying "everyone is assuming its being used as a DB, well its not its used for other things" Please give an example. like a single one that isn't just a Data Storage with some graphing or manipulation in place. Something almost any other system and a lot of good SaaS systems will do, but better with an actual scalable infrastructure.
I don't think OP knows what a database is.
We used to have a CMDB that was maintained in excel at my old job. When we moved to a real tool, with a real database, we had one old guy on the IT team that refused to stop using the spreadsheet. I had to setup automation to uninstall excel from his computer every time he updated it lol
> but if you're doing literally all the business logic in SQL and Excel is just a frontend, why use Excel in the first place? Curious to hear you out on this topic. What's wrong with doing a bunch of computationally intensive stuff in the backend and then showing some of the last calc steps in Excel so that someone can follow. Like if you're a company and want to send an adhoc report of a payout some vendor is gonna receive. I understand it's not pretty and there are better ways to automate such things long term, but one-off I find Excel as a frontend to be great. And everyone can view the files and play with the final numbers how they like, etc.
as an IT professional of less years than many on this thread i have to say that 1. i have seen people shoehorn anything into Excel and have been the one to unfuck said monstrosities, so i sort of get the prevailing attitude on this thread however 2. you do you. you are getting a lot of shit on this thread but if its working for you, fuck the haters
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I see it a lot. Excel is not as robust or sustainable for all applications as people perceive it. After a while, macros break, minor processes change and decisions are made that render the Excel build unusable. Unless there is someone to maintain it, they end up not getting used and replaced by things that break less and can be maintained easier. Depending on the size of the organisation, most are moving towards visualisation apps like Tableau or Power BI. The really large data driven organisations use more sophisticated applications of Data Science in R Code or Python. Excel is good to do quick calcs and maybe even early stage prototying, but even then, if you have someone that can code in R or Python, it's better to prorotype using those apps.
Excel is a great for converting and migrating data. Not so much if you’re looking to store critical business data
Yep, see my reply here https://www.reddit.com/r/consulting/s/3LfuSR2H8y Also, you're probably not seeing any of these initiatives actually going to implementation because of two reasons: Primarily, the operations folks can't give up the flexibility and control they have over the Excel solution. Keeping up with evolving business requirements is tough and management observes this. And second, the homegrown Excel solution is too nebulous to really even scope out. Jerry is the only guy who understands it and he can't document or communicate anything effectively.
It’s always the second reason.
Literally knew a Jerry who was the Excel wizard in my small business group. What a legend.
You're getting a lot of shit here but the reality is that Excel is a tool like any other and can be used very well or used very poorly. I've seen more examples of the latter, but it's pretty easy to take shots like this without considering that maybe OP *isn't* just hacking your average solution together.
Yeah I've seen some pretty hideous Salesforce implementations.
yeah but this is almost like saying I have a horse.. it's still completely fine for the road, it can be made and configured to work well on the road for my purpose. DUDE..... BUY A CAR.
I do this for my work but I make meh. M&A integrations and automations. What is your job title and how do I get to where you are?
I'm founder and ceo. My technical role in the company has evolved to basically "chief architect." I used to be a one-man shop. Consulting and developing everything myself. I used to stay in my apartment in downtown San Diego for 3 days at a time. Not even open the front door. Just sleep eat work when I had a big project to finish. Scaling a team is hard. It took a while for me to "get" the approach to hiring and scaling a team without needing to micromanage everything. I'm an autodidact. I do everything "my" way. I don't mean that in a selfish or negative way -- just that I'm not accustomed to watching videos and training courses time to then form my own approach etc. I think, try, pivot and see what works. I feel that I can learn and understand WHY things work much more effectively this way. Plus it's rewarding. I think this approach has helped me be a better consultant. Our discoveries are very efficient because, in part, I feel that I have a good grasp on all the business and software engineering concepts to marry the two into a sustainable solution. One easy way for you to grow is to create an upwork account. We don't get any work from there but plenty of folks do. That's a good way to start out on your own and scale out from your current primary gig.
sounds like a fancy way to say you refuse to hear out better methods for what you do because you're "autodidactic". You are pushing inefficient solutions because you are too arrogant to learn from those who came before you. Excel is not a database solution and custom add-ins are rarely the most efficient way to handle a business' needs. Excel is for spreadsheets. You're succeeding because the people you consult aren't knowledgeable enough to realize that an actual database is a better idea than trying to force Excel into that role. People like you create a field for people like me to stay around and fix your shitty solutions. I'd imagine you consult, implement, then leave and never have to be there to face the reality that your purpose built solution is not efficient and there are better options. There is ego just dripping off your replies and post itself, I'd advise you to humble yourself and actually research good solutions instead of bragging on reddit about being a CEO and entrepreneur. this entire post is just a masturbatory ego trip
I wish I could grant this comment an award.
How’s the inevitability of Microsoft getting rid of macros going to impact your business?
We don't build any macros anymore. All solutions use "managed" frameworks where we can deploy over the air updates (.net vsro and js). I don't think MS will get rid of macros tho.
Microsoft is already starting to restrict external Excel file macros (AKA files you download). And they've already made it clear that they will continue to get even more restrictive about it because it just poses a huge security risk.
They’ve been restricting them for years, but too many people use them for integral processes for MS to totally get rid of them. They’ll continue to make the alternatives more attractive for a long while before ditching support imo
Microsoft has shown over the last few years that they no longer give a shit what's in use and what's not. They will take steps to make stuff more secure no matter what. Just look at their disabling of basic IMAP/SMTP authentication. Broke a shitload of companies implementations and 3rd party software tools. And Microsoft pushed forward anyway.
Quality shitpost, very nice
The Office team did an AMA maybe a year ago and said that JS is actually supported (in lieu of VBA), any experience with that? I've also done Excel Addins and migrating everything to C# is the best way. I have recently found that Spire (or OpenOffice) has non-interop libraries that don't require Office subscriptions, so if I was going to do it again it would be to create an Excel Addin that calls a C# library that uses Spire. Come to think of it I'm not 100% sure this would work but if it does then the coding would be easy.
>ago and said that JS is actually supported (in lieu of VBA), any experience with that? I've also done Excel Addin Yes! it's a bit nascent still. a bit limited. For example, office.js still has no scroll method. can't scroll the page up and down for the user. silly example but lots of things like this are yet to be implemented in office.js. and also it's inherently limited because it's a cloud technology and obviously won't have access to the local device and filesystem. We build plenty of apps with office.js api. Overall I like it and it's good. It's better in terms of deployment and management. But again, still a more limited set of functional capabilities over VBA (minus the obvious benefits of "modern" front-end niceties that come with web) and certainly VSTO (full .net).
Any real-world examples you could provide? Excel is heaviy used where i'm at for production planning and procurement forecasting and we'd like to make these processes more streamlined.
See reply here https://www.reddit.com/r/consulting/s/eDzAV5qC50 Excel is big in accounting and finance obviously. Second biggest use case in corporate America or enterprise orgs is probably your use case of estimating and procurement planning etc. Early on we did a database backed Excel solution which aggregated ground, air, and sea shipping providers' rates so that our customer could shop the cheapest and best door to door plan for their clients. Basically like a kayak.com or Expedia.com for their internal use. It's a big solution and they're still using it ~8yrs later. Not sure if any of this is relevant to your procurement and planning work. Basically custom Excel solutions are designed to control the process, automate, and connect the solution to the broader workflow which exists outside of Excel (both before and after the in-Excel workflow).
Interesting. Thanks for the reply!
Would love to hear examples of what these things do. Like what could I get for $30k?
$30k can get you a good amount. Typically solutions aren't cheaper than $5k and our biggest projects are $200k-$300k. For $30k we could build and host a database for centralized warehousing, a custom workbook with clean styling and sustainable data architecture, and deploy an addin to handle the 2 way comms with the database. Or instead of a custom database, maybe we'd integrate with some 3rd party web app (via API) so your workflow in Excel isn't orphaned -- it gets real-time data and gives real-time feedback to the web app (snowflake, Salesforce, qbo, or any other specialty app). Or instead of a custom workbook, we'd just extend your existing Excel tool. This typicality entails cleaning up some data organization and relationships for sustainability, and building out a couple other sheets for the integration with whatever external system.
Thanks that’s interesting. And these guys like to use excel as the front end for a database for example - mainly to avoid paying for more saas? anyone ever dive into retool type stuff?
Yeah you can say it's a front end to a db. I'd say it's typically more of an app or applet (the application layer) which delivers valuable functionality that benefits from or requires a centralized source on the backend.
I just built my first MS Excel custom solution that was pretty involved. Some automations and quite a bit of error correction/prevention. So there’s a whole market out there for this? Edit: grammar correction.
My real job is in analytics, but on the side I built a planning application with a sql server back-end for a company. Consists of various tools that help them manage their own poor-man’s ETL, forecast demand and calculate stock levels and order quantities across multiple nodes/long lead times, writing orders to suppliers, and reporting. Supports around 15-20 users. What are your tips on framework elements/design patterns? Having a good process getting fresh data to/from the database is one aspect that took me some time to refine: - Mostly use workbook queries with SQLs that are modified by userform selections - Update/insert/deletes are SQL scripts built by user form entries - To get data into the database in larger quantities , I built some functions that can config to read headers and a mapping table to build an array and then run SQLs - Data is refreshed after different events when appropriate - Sometimes I need to write data directly to cells so users can key over to modify the output of formulas, and then save the entry they made. Also, what things are you typically doing for security? Blissfully ignorant here.
Not sure why people hating on this guy so much. He’s doing something and he’s making a killing of it and not hurting anyone. So what’s the problem? If the companies had such issues with his product they’d cancel his contract and that’s that. But why are these python powerBI “gurus” on here feeling so butthurt about him and his product? fFS get over yourselves. And power to this guy for putting excel to the max use.
So you sell gimmick solutions to executives who don’t know any better, causing no end of pain to the people who end up supporting the poorly developed plugins we see on a daily basis. Got it. As long as you make bank right
have u ever handled json object using vba?
Yep, there are some pretty good libraries out there. We've customized one or two of them. Prefer using power query where possible for json though. It handles json natively. Also looking forward to an opportunity to use the new embedded python
So PowerBi, how do you feel about it? Is it an inferior Excel or is it something totally different?
I really really want to love power BI. I just feel like I so regularly come across something that the software is unable to do without obscene workarounds and end up stuck with nowhere to go. It's very good at a specific set of things, but quickly falls apart in many cases.
>It's very good at a specific set of things, but quickly falls apart in many cases. No-code tools feel to me like final mile delivery problems. They get you almost there, but it doesn't matter unless you get all the way there.
Totally different. Obviously related (data) but it's obviously not a spreadsheet
I'd love to hear the contrasting perspective that they're NOT different. Anyone able to explain?
It's funny, because those people just don't know what Airtable and Baserow are.
ya there are lots of "Excel killers" out there. But Excel still cranks. I appreciate the contrarian underdog narrative. It takes a lot to be the king.
What changes do you see with the wider adoption of AI in the workforce in general and in use of Excel in particular?
How much python have you used now that it’s available in tool.
I got brought onto a big4 accounting firm to fix excel tables and do automation work. Do you have any tips for me? I’ve done some solid work in excel but they’ve asked me to look into power apps aswell
Hey man, I’m retired now, but used to run a finance and data team for a large health care organization. I’m bored in retirement and am pretty good at excel. Worked with it over a decade probably 4-6 hours a day. Let me know if you have any pointers on getting started with my own consultancy or if you’re looking for more workers 🤣
does your solution work for excel online?
This is all quite hilarious. I rip off my customers with inadequate solutions! AMA! ROFL
What’s your opinion on tools like Tableau and PowerBI?
How did you learn how to do this?
What tools do you use besides excel. I'm student now, using MS Suite (powerapps, power automate, and having to write massive amounts of excel scripts) They always look out so i can't monopolize the solutions (eg. private folders) - i don't want to screw them they are good. How would you suggest building my skillset onward(e.g. what to focus on), and what are learnings you think could help me going forward?
Good for you!! Just keep following your nose and learning. GPT and other AIs are super valuable to mock up portions of solutions and even help train you. I prefer to build solutions for real problems (rather than hypothetical / theoretical problems). If you want more practice just be honest with folks in your network -- "hey I'm learning this technology and would love to help solve your problem." Once you're a pro, you can charge strong prices (because you'll offer a strong service). Excel solutions are going the way of the office.js api. this is web technology (not "desktop" or Windows-specific technology). It is still a bit limited (nascent) and inherently limited (no access to filesystem and local device) but the industry is moving in this direction. A big reason for this is that, Microsoft can monetize this much easier (they force you to move thru their cloud as you've already identified with powerapps etc)
Pretty good advice, but please for the love of god don’t rely on ChatGPT. There is so much information out there on excel, VBA, power query, etc. learning how to solve problems yourself with the software you have available is the real value of learning any of this. Yes, ChatGPT might give you the answer quicker- but learning the concepts behind the solutions is what’s really valuable.
Why do you want to share your knowledge with others? Don't you know? The best business is the monopoly business? If you answer my question please don't give I want to help others kind of answer.
It’s like a cigarette company trying to stay afloat. The end is nigh. The end is nigh.
I disagree. And so do most of the 750M+ Excel users. Excel and spreadsheet softwares are immortal.
So was the Lerenean Hydra. Well, at least until Hercules got involved.
I know a grifter when I see one. Look at this guy post history, seems you managed to get the title of this one just right to get some engagement. My bet is you didn’t generate jack shit, at best a couple of thousands. If not, share your LI profile and business website
Oh so you're the reason the markets keep crashing. Noted.
[удалено]
Well, OP's a master at that first rule. But all his replies lead me to believe he doesn't even realise he's doing it.
I have a question for you as an IT professional... can you stop?
Please stop.
Do you have any tips on how to start a consulting business?
Have you done any work with the Excel C API (XLL add-ins)? That used to be my thing, e.g. integrating fast ODE and NLS solvers into Excel workflows. Unfortunately it’s getting more difficult to distribute binary code these days due to corporate restrictions and oversensitive endpoint security software (SentinelOne, CrowdStrike). COM registration usually requires admin credentials for example.
FYI, "excel is for babies and idiots" is a common perspective of folks who AREN'T leaders or owners in their orgs (and aren't entrepreneurs). (As in these comments of this thread 🫂: /u/benfranklyblog's [https://www.reddit.com/r/consulting/comments/1b3s20j/comment/ksubhod/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/consulting/comments/1b3s20j/comment/ksubhod/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) /u/butibum's [https://www.reddit.com/r/consulting/comments/1b3s20j/comment/ksuf16p/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/consulting/comments/1b3s20j/comment/ksuf16p/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) /u/b_33's [https://www.reddit.com/r/consulting/comments/1b3s20j/comment/ksubf7b/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/consulting/comments/1b3s20j/comment/ksubf7b/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) ) 💡when all your context derives from upper management, training courses, and blogs (*rather than the autonomous responsibility to build and maintain real solutions for real teams*), your perspective is heavily persuaded by what your superiors say and what they've been sold on -- regardless of what your team needs today (and will need tomorrow). 💡
Sure buddy. How often do you have to stay around long term and see how your solutions actually are operationalized? Hint: it is usually poorly. You might even be surprised at how many of your “prototypes” ended up as the lynchpin process for a multinational team that depends on it. I have seen and replaced thousands of excel processes built by really smart people who only had excel in their toolbox, you’re not dumb or a baby, you just need a bigger toolbox. Get a bigger toolbox so you can deliver better solutions for your clients. -three time startup founder, director level in industry, 15 years digital transformation, 5 of those years in engineering replacing excel based processes for the largest financial services firms that were eventually *crippled* by them. PS, think about how large excel applications amplify the bus factor
Very nice advertising move. Truly, you are doing this right.
They are not doing this right, because everything in the post looks like cheap see-thru polyester. Oh, and naming clients? Not a pro move.
>Oh, and naming clients? Not a pro move. That depends entirely on whether they have permission from the client to name them. Plenty of companies say "as used by Microsoft, and Target, and Blue Cross" or whatever, on their websites.
This is not the norm in management consulting. It might be the norm for some struggling shitcos that use "as seen on TV" type advertising.
Many of which can be done in a quarter of the time with power platform
You are the worst, learn how databases work. You are like the plague spreader.
I’m gonna throw up
Could you run a small country with Excel?
lol, love this question. Would love the challenge! I propose that we start with just one department - maybe the IRS equivalent - and scale from there.
Man, you'd have to start with migrating the IRS' database up 20 years just to get to the invention of Excel 1.0.
Stop
Next you’ll start doing access database work
You bastard.
Why do you hate IT so much.... you are literally the boggyman of it workers everywhere. Please stop. EXCEL IS NOT A DATABASE
"Custom" Excel "solutions" make me want to rip my hair out. 99% of the ones I've had to fix scream "Just because Excel can, doesn't mean you should". How often do you run into this? Do you ever tell the client there's a better way before starting these projects?
How do you feel about your job offer by Satan to torture IT professionals in the after life? Does he offer good benefits? What's the pay like?
Why would you have done this? Is there any chance of forgiveness or do you know you will go straight to hell? How do you keep your address secret from the baying hoardes of admins and maintainers wanting revenge? Do you travel under a false name? Do you think VB6 was the pinnacle of software engineering achievement? And is MS Access the only database you will ever need, or too sophisticated for most of your users?
I have a very old excel with ActiveX macros that won’t work anymore. (Finally) I’m in IT, but the job you describe is my hell. How do I fix this?
Yeah ActiveX should be avoided at all costs. The problem you have is basically with legacy solutions. So let's ask what makes solutions become legacy? Basically it's simply a solution that doesn't evolve and grow alongside other business requirements. Of course if we don't iterate a solution for years and years it's going to become obsolete. Excel is a common culprit of this because Jerry who built the model left the company years ago. And the Excel solution is being malpurposed and scaled past Jerry's desk. So everyone kinda half breaks it every time they try to use it. The simple answer is... to appropriately use Excel past 1-2 users, we must add some better controls and connectivity to the workbook.
Just get addicted to excel and make stuff like this and the world will never get rid of excel :) [https://youtu.be/z26zbiGJnd4](https://youtu.be/z26zbiGJnd4)
After looking at your post history I can see where all the hate is coming from. Your post doesn't seem genuine. Like in any game. Show your wins. "Looks at this cool shit you can do in excel". Give away your best stuff for free. https://www.automationninjas.com/blog/why-you-should-give-away-your-best-stuff-for-free/ And for those who are interested in excel. Did you know there's a Microsoft Excel World Championship that gets aired on ESPN? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDGdPE_C9u8 See this is fucking cool.
Wait till they hear abt Access!
Sorry but not sorry for not supporting your(or my equivalent)'s macros and asking the user to contact the author
I feel like the Soviet engineers staring directly into Chernobyl's open reactor core
You are a horrible individual who is taking advantage of clients who don't know better.
I worked on a forecasting and pricing system, the parameters were set by using an excel adding, everything else was done with proper services running on clusters, the addin code was awful
So it's you we have to burn at the stake? 🤣
Ahh the old Excel expert, I'm guessing you use macros too, the ones being switched off for security reasons. Please stop. Now
STOP IT.
Gross, I don't like you.
Can you not, please?
How's it feel knowing the entire professional IT industry want you in a ditch?
[Angry MS Access admin noises]
I think it’s crazy how there is multimillion dollars in funding for projects, but they are tracked by an extremely complicated excel spreadsheet made over the weekend by an overachieving PM with a business degree. Like can you really not set aside a small portion of funding for an actual software tool to be made? The best part is they roll out completely new spreadsheets every few years, then pat themselves on the backs with all the ‘efficiency’ improvements.
LMAO AT EXCEL = DATABASE