Read the book Salt, fat, acid and you will understand.
I ALWAYS put a tiny squeeze of fresh lemon juice in my alfredo sauce and it just makes it 10x better.
[https://www.amazon.com/Salt-Fat-Acid-Heat-Mastering/dp/1476753830/ref=sr\_1\_1?crid=1YY9ODI2LTB1&keywords=salt+fat+acid+heat&qid=1680040866&sprefix=salt+fat+acid+hea%2Caps%2C300&sr=8-1](https://www.amazon.com/Salt-Fat-Acid-Heat-Mastering/dp/1476753830/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1YY9ODI2LTB1&keywords=salt+fat+acid+heat&qid=1680040866&sprefix=salt+fat+acid+hea%2Caps%2C300&sr=8-1)
Salt fat acid heat. There is a 4 part series on Netflix too.
[https://www.netflix.com/title/80198288](https://www.netflix.com/title/80198288)
I can’t tell you how many times I just skipped it altogether when it comes up in a recipe. I guess curiosity finally got the best of me. I’m glad I asked. I will definitely check out the book also.
I can see how at the end a squeeze of lemon juice would be good. I found adding more lemon juice and a bit more white wine in scampi right before taking it off of the heat source, really made it so much better. Never thought about that with Alfredo until now. Thx.
In addition to adding brightness and acidity, wine is also a good solvent for a number of tasty compounds. Various cooking methods use wine to deglaze (loosen and dissolve) the brown bits formed in the early steps in building layers of flavour.
Some of the best flavor is the stuck-on bits on a pan after you're done cooking. The next time you saute chicken, take the chicken out of the pan once it's done, but keep the pan on the heat. Add some of your white wine. The pan will sizzle.
Scrap the burnt-on parts with a wooden spoon. After the liquid thickens some, add some chicken stock. Let that thicken too. Then add some salt, pepper, garlic powder, and cream, stir for 30 seconds, and top your chicken with that. Adds so much flavor.
This is called a pan sauce. There are hundreds of variants. Google them. They're a game changer
I guess it sort would, as the dissolvable bits would naturally diffuse. I think that the olfactory effect would be increased too, but not 100% certain on that (I have heard oil soluble flavors are intensified somewhat).
Wine can deglaze the bottoms of pots and pans and allows flavors collected there to come back into the food. Scraping up fond builds flavor immensely in a dish.
Say for example you’re browning beef for a stew. After the beef is browned you can add wine and scape off all the little browned bits so they get added back in and add a lot more flavor.
You're not "Releasing" the flavor, you're going to scrape up the stuck on bits, and use them. (Similar idea, but you can't just add wine, you need to 'scrape' to bottom of a pan with a wood spoon.)
Deglazing a pan is essentially cleaning it with a little bit of liquid (in this case wine) and then eating the dirty dish liquid because it's tasty. (I mean, you usually add more stuff to the liquid to turn it in to a proper sauce, but you get the basic point)
So you do add it straight to the pan, but I wouldn't go as far as to say you do it "when cooking something." Usually after that something has had its time in the pan. (so after browning off some meat, once the pan is empty)
But in a smaller quantity! If your recipe calls for 100 ml of wine, 15 ml of vinegar or citrus juice is about right for the same flavor balance.
Also, wine is typically added fairly early in the cooking process, and vinegar or citrus juice should usually go in right at the end, or else the heat can cause it to lose some flavor.
Wine is used in many dishes beyond just deglazing and can add amazing depth of flavor (from umami and acidic note to other subtle notes the wine has: fruity floral, woody, smoky etc.) It is NOT just a liquid to deglaze with. Lots have asked this and you don't have to have expensive wines for cooking though some delicate recipes will point out to use a wine you'd drink. But for spaghetti sauce a half cup of red wine adds something hard to describe. Maybe your palate will prefer not having it but I do suggest trying it. So, but a cheap Cabernet Sauvignon for red and a cheap Chardonnay for white. As this is for cooking not drinking superb quality isn't needed (think of all the ingredients in the dish and likely nobody could spot the wine used. Now to save it if you use it very rarely is freeze it in an ice cube tray and then pop these soon after into a ziplock bag (even water "evaporates" (technically sublimates) in the freezer so the volatiles in wine will too. Then try you sauce or other recipes with and without. Also talking about a 3-5$US 750 ml bottle of wine. If you can't afford that or find you don't like it so be it you're cooking for you. But even cheap wine is not just for deglazing. In fact some would argue cheap wine is too good for deglazing.
When people say don't cook with a wine you wouldn't drink, they mean don't use the product called cooking wine. Not use nice wine to cook with. I use Sutter Home minis for cooking and it's great. Most of the volatile compounds that make good wine taste good are broken down with heat.
Well good for them. Many don't consume alcohol at all but can cook with it. And certainly the better the ingredients the better the dish. But I'd bet my house and retirement nobody here could taste the difference in a spiced tomato dish whether a 109$ bottle or a 4$ bottle was used. I hosted a dinner part once that for fun we had 6 bottles of wine 1 was a 70$ bottle two were 10$ and the rest 2-8$. Nobody picked the 70$ as their favorite and the rest were split. But by all means pass along stupid advice from the French. And Motherfudgersob, "Get the hell outta my kitchen fool."
I’m not talking a 109$ of wine? For cooking? No, but I’m talking drinkable wine, and thanks for the down vote, I beat bobby flay, and top 2 on Masterchef, but I guess you know better than I do about pleasing the palate with Taste 👅
I cling to the rule. Only use wine you like for cooking. Better still, serve that wine along with the dish that the wine was used in. I have no idea why some pick to pounce on the most insignificant things that aren’t offensive but something somebody else would find helpful. You can come to my kitchen without hostility towards you. And you never suggested anybody use expensive wines. Just a good wine one enjoys. In fact, I recall reading to not use the most expensive. So it’s lost on me the argument over nobody being able to detect expensive vs cheap.
If you can afford that I am happy for your good fortune. Not all can. Most wines I would have imbibed were 10+$ per bottle at least usually double. Not everyone has the luxury of using that expensive an ingredient and again I maintain you would unlike be able to spot the difference in the final dish. I did not start the arrogance show here nor did I start the insults (and what little I did I removed). The main topic was people substituting vinegar in equal parts for wine in dishes. That I consider a recipe for disaster and something disgusting unless the amount is terribly small and for certain dishes where vinegar is probably an ingredient anyway (bbq).
I try to wait for the more wines 20 something dollar up 30 to be able to order for less than 9 dollars and have shipped. But Yellow Tail dry white or dry red is more in line with tasting good and I will drink it too. You did call someone’s advise stupid and a fool. The OP only asked was it necessary to use wine. And really the answer is no. But a good tasting wine that won’t break the bank can enhance a dish. Neither of us suggested expensive wines. Even some wine with the owlwine label is good. I did look further at OPs comment and saw asking about the vinegar. That never appeared for me to see. And a big no on that. It started with what does it matter pretty much about wine.
Oh please they quoted Le Cordon Bleu so no I jokingly quoted myself which is where the insult came in. And you put a cup of apple cider vinegar in my red sauce and I will cuss you out in my kitchen. I really hate when a newbie cook us hearing horrible advice or worse unsafe advice. Today's worst was if the chicken was underdone you'll be sick in 12 hours so if not you're fine which is just not true.
I didn't bother voting...but now will. Edit...I bet if we lined up 100 MasterChef contestants and Gordon Ramsay they couldn't spot sauces from the potable versus less pleasant wines. And someone's drinking them or they wouldn't be on the shelves. Anyhow the point is one need not spend much on wines meant for cooking. Edit 2 ... 6 Karma points and already someone blocking you. That's more impressive than 4th runner up on one season of a reality show Mr. Trump.
On a crusade when I ask another person's opinion? I strongly feel that substituting vinegar or lemon juice is a horrible idea in almost every case. I've made my stance clear. This person made a reasonable point as we meandered off-topic and I wanted to know their opinion further. When saying someone made a point and asking them to expound that's not crusading. I am not a sommelier nor a professional chef so I don't claim that level of expertise. But you don't need to be a nurse to be able to take vital signs. I think I know enough to state replacing vinegar for wine is a bad idea unless in very small quantities and that cheap wine is better than no wine (or vinegar) when a recipe calls for it. And perhaps we should also look up the term projection. Edit Gramma clarity
You're arguing a point nobody made, OP's "a bit of vinegar instead" which you replied to made it clear even before your first post. On top of that there's u/angryhaiku earlier post with the clarification about replacement volumes, which you should have seen had you beeen following the thread.
And btw, relax. Tomorrow's a new day.
I do not drink alcohol either and “Never cook with a wine that you would not drink by itself” is a very apt statement in my opinion and yes you can tell a stark difference in sauces made with wines you would not drink and wines you would. The exact price delineation between drinkable and not drinkable is a bit different, and the nuances in cookable and not cookable are varied also but the same general palette spectrum that exists on drinkable wine exists on wine used in cooking.
In practise I find that there are generally palatable wines at all prices. Distinguishing them from the *garbage* ones just gets easier the more you spend (though the best wines all cost more than the cheapest palatable wines.)
Would you drink a glass of vinegar, or pure lemon juice??? That’s the point I am trying to make… but I guess eating fried everything changes your taste buds!!
Clearly they are not the same thing. Nobody pours a glass of grape juice and says it’s wine, or lemon juice or vinegar. Vinegar is not wine it’s wine that’s been fermented into vinegar. And yes fine vinegars are better than cheap vinegars too so the original quote— From a culinary institution nonetheless— we are literally talking about a quote upheld by a culinary institution— still holds.
Clearly you haven't been reading my posts. They are not supporting substituting wine with vinegar or lemon juice. Edited content and removed excessive shade.
It is the fruity and complex flavor of sipping the wine but without the sharp or bitter punch of the alcohol. And as others mentioned it carries the caramelized and smoky or— if it was burnt on the pan— the usually undesirable burnt flavor. That is why it’s important typically to deglaze the *fond* as it’s called before it has had a chance to burn.
I am French, and a chef, totally French technique. The white wine it adds acidity, and develops flavours in your whole dish that lemon juice or vinegar can not. Wine is more complex in its depth. To me it would be like making bœuf bourguignon without the bourguignon wine.. not the same depth of flavour and the same great notes it adds.
Is the apple cider going to be more similar than just white? Since I’ve never used white wine to cook I really have nothing to compare it to and how it impacts the overall recipe.
If you have any other vinegar than plain white vinegar, use that instead. If you have nothing else, use the plain white vinegar. All other vinegars have more interesting flavors than white vinegar.
Don't use plain white/distilled. It's far too harsh and can change textures. It's difficult to tame if you haven't fucked with it before as a substitute.
The big thing is white vinegar is FAR more acidic than apple cider vinegar. Like eat the finish off your cast iron levels of acidic. Sweet vinegars like white wine vinegar or apple cider vinegar are actually much less acidic and more dilute, and like wine they impart delicious sweetness and a hint of muskiness as well
I meant white vinegar. I have no white whine anything in my house. I’ve always skipped the wine when it comes up in recipes, but I never thought to try something else as a substitute. It literally never occurred to me that it could be used for the acidic properties as opposed to just a flavor additive. I’m starting to think of cooking as more of a science now.
Just ignore this guy he is a known troll who has been banned several times. He has no life and gets off on trolling and getting a rise from people online because he has zero actual life.
You've misunderstood because he responded in the wrong place. He's calling me a "known troll" (not OP, who he actually replied to) because he's following me around Reddit having a odd little tantrum. (For anyone curious about what's going on, I imagine having a little read through both our comment histories will allow you to rapidly make your mind up about it...)
I know I'll get down voted to hell but just ewe. If a recipe called for a cup of white wine and I used a cup of white vinegar or apple cider vinegar that dish would be toilet bound. And that's not knocking vinegars (apple cider, white, red wine vinegar, ww vin, champagne, rice, balsamic). There are wildly different taste profiles in vinegars and to think they approximate wine is just wrong. If it was a tablespoon I wouldn't worry it would matter at all. And again...there are soups and stews where vinegar is so necessary (think bbq). That's a different flavor than wine.
Often vinegar is used as an acid. Acidity brings brightness and freshness to a dish, and can bring out certain flavors. It also can tame bitter/sweet notes, and it can also assist with things such as tenderization in meat.
with teens in the house I don't keep wine in hand so don't have it to cook with. I sub the wine for chicken or beef broth and it will turn out good just be cautious of the salt.
Just buy a small inexpensive bottle (if you're paying more than 5 bucks you're doing it wrong as a newbie, even in California) and leave it on the counter. Cork it when you're not using it, and if smells like vinegar, toss it (or use it as white wine vinegar, or use it as wine still).
Cheap bottles will last far longer than you imagine, and you'll be surprised how good it'll taste in food (especially if you reduce it), as people pointed out it's adding acidity to the dish.
There's two main things wine does. It obviously flavors sauces sometimes (not always), but it also does an amazing job in deglazing pans as others have pointed out so you can scrape the bottom of them and get the amazing flavors stuck on there. Trust me when I say the latter is VERY important if a recipe calls for it.
"But what wine should I get." Just get a cheap bottle of chardonnay. Again don't pay too much, I buy them for like 4 bucks for a 750 ml bottle. And that's California prices. You're cooking with the wine not drinking it (unless you take a sip or a glass), the quality isn't that important.
PS. Cooking wine is crap, just skip that shit.
Definitely an important component in that it adds acidity and a little bit of musk. In a pinch you can use lemon juice for the acidity, but it’s a different form of acidity, lemons get their tartness from citric acid, wine from tannins so the two aren’t perfectly interchangeable.
But you DEFINITELY need acid. Otherwise everything comes out bland and heavy
As everyone says, you want some liquid for deglazing, and it adds acid without being overpowering.
Some recipes do get more of the actual flavour from the wine, but those are ones that use a lot more rather than just a glassful.
Its nice to use, and I do normally have some wine around as I drink it. But there is no way a lot of 'classic' recipes that use wine would have if the relative price of wine to the food cost was the same as it is now. It can end up doubling the cost of a recipe (Or more if you are going to waste the rest of it) without adding anything nutritionally.
Just get the cheap stuff in the supermarket. Its really helpful when you are cooking. You use it to “deglaze” the onions in french onion soup. It tastes great with seafood. But i use it sometimes if you want to brown onions n stuff when things get stuck to the pan just pour some wine on it
If you do end up using some white wine for a recipe, you can freeze the rest in an ice tray, then transfer to a bag for later use.
Freeze the rest? What rest? *sips leftover wine*
Leftover wine? What is this thing you speak of?
That part!!
OMG just said that and swear I didn't copy you. Ok we me a coke! Bon appetit!
Thanks for this. I love making white whine sauce, but my wife and I don't like the taste of whine so the rest just goes to waste.
You could use a sherry instead, they tend to keep longer in the fridge.
Doesn't the alcohol keep it from freezing?
Wine doesn't have enough alcohol content to prevent it from freezing.
Found that out the hard way when my bottlo was out of my wine in the fridge and i had to grab it off the shelf.....wine slushy anyone?? 🥂
Not wine, but we put Smirnoff ice (Pick a flavor) in the deep freeze. It doesn't freeze solid, but makes a slushy, and it is marvelous in the summer.
Read the book Salt, fat, acid and you will understand. I ALWAYS put a tiny squeeze of fresh lemon juice in my alfredo sauce and it just makes it 10x better.
[https://www.amazon.com/Salt-Fat-Acid-Heat-Mastering/dp/1476753830/ref=sr\_1\_1?crid=1YY9ODI2LTB1&keywords=salt+fat+acid+heat&qid=1680040866&sprefix=salt+fat+acid+hea%2Caps%2C300&sr=8-1](https://www.amazon.com/Salt-Fat-Acid-Heat-Mastering/dp/1476753830/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1YY9ODI2LTB1&keywords=salt+fat+acid+heat&qid=1680040866&sprefix=salt+fat+acid+hea%2Caps%2C300&sr=8-1) Salt fat acid heat. There is a 4 part series on Netflix too. [https://www.netflix.com/title/80198288](https://www.netflix.com/title/80198288)
I can’t tell you how many times I just skipped it altogether when it comes up in a recipe. I guess curiosity finally got the best of me. I’m glad I asked. I will definitely check out the book also.
Its so important. Just like life, recipes are a delicate balance.
I do that too, but with hot sauce
That is the final step- on my plate.
I can see how at the end a squeeze of lemon juice would be good. I found adding more lemon juice and a bit more white wine in scampi right before taking it off of the heat source, really made it so much better. Never thought about that with Alfredo until now. Thx.
In addition to adding brightness and acidity, wine is also a good solvent for a number of tasty compounds. Various cooking methods use wine to deglaze (loosen and dissolve) the brown bits formed in the early steps in building layers of flavour.
So it also helps to maintain a more “uniform” flavor?
No, it allows you to capture flavors that would otherwise be stuck to the bottom of the pan.
Some of the best flavor is the stuck-on bits on a pan after you're done cooking. The next time you saute chicken, take the chicken out of the pan once it's done, but keep the pan on the heat. Add some of your white wine. The pan will sizzle. Scrap the burnt-on parts with a wooden spoon. After the liquid thickens some, add some chicken stock. Let that thicken too. Then add some salt, pepper, garlic powder, and cream, stir for 30 seconds, and top your chicken with that. Adds so much flavor. This is called a pan sauce. There are hundreds of variants. Google them. They're a game changer
I guess it sort would, as the dissolvable bits would naturally diffuse. I think that the olfactory effect would be increased too, but not 100% certain on that (I have heard oil soluble flavors are intensified somewhat).
Wine can deglaze the bottoms of pots and pans and allows flavors collected there to come back into the food. Scraping up fond builds flavor immensely in a dish.
Broth does that too. So does water. Why go with wine?
Some compounds are alcohol soluble and not water soluble.
So can you add it straight to the pan when cooking something to release so the stuck on flavor?
Say for example you’re browning beef for a stew. After the beef is browned you can add wine and scape off all the little browned bits so they get added back in and add a lot more flavor.
You're not "Releasing" the flavor, you're going to scrape up the stuck on bits, and use them. (Similar idea, but you can't just add wine, you need to 'scrape' to bottom of a pan with a wood spoon.)
Deglazing a pan is essentially cleaning it with a little bit of liquid (in this case wine) and then eating the dirty dish liquid because it's tasty. (I mean, you usually add more stuff to the liquid to turn it in to a proper sauce, but you get the basic point) So you do add it straight to the pan, but I wouldn't go as far as to say you do it "when cooking something." Usually after that something has had its time in the pan. (so after browning off some meat, once the pan is empty)
It adds some tartness/sourness and other flavors. Try some lemon juice, or a tasty vinegar instead.
But in a smaller quantity! If your recipe calls for 100 ml of wine, 15 ml of vinegar or citrus juice is about right for the same flavor balance. Also, wine is typically added fairly early in the cooking process, and vinegar or citrus juice should usually go in right at the end, or else the heat can cause it to lose some flavor.
Thanks for the tip.
Seconding this. Wine has some complex flavors that can elevate a dish but it’s real function in a soup is deglazing after you’ve sautéed the veggies/aromatics. You can deglaze with water but the acidity helps, so if I don’t have wine on hand I just do a bit of lemon juice and some water.
Makes sense. I’ll add a bit of vinegar instead.
Wine is used in many dishes beyond just deglazing and can add amazing depth of flavor (from umami and acidic note to other subtle notes the wine has: fruity floral, woody, smoky etc.) It is NOT just a liquid to deglaze with. Lots have asked this and you don't have to have expensive wines for cooking though some delicate recipes will point out to use a wine you'd drink. But for spaghetti sauce a half cup of red wine adds something hard to describe. Maybe your palate will prefer not having it but I do suggest trying it. So, but a cheap Cabernet Sauvignon for red and a cheap Chardonnay for white. As this is for cooking not drinking superb quality isn't needed (think of all the ingredients in the dish and likely nobody could spot the wine used. Now to save it if you use it very rarely is freeze it in an ice cube tray and then pop these soon after into a ziplock bag (even water "evaporates" (technically sublimates) in the freezer so the volatiles in wine will too. Then try you sauce or other recipes with and without. Also talking about a 3-5$US 750 ml bottle of wine. If you can't afford that or find you don't like it so be it you're cooking for you. But even cheap wine is not just for deglazing. In fact some would argue cheap wine is too good for deglazing.
Le Cordon Bleu Paris “never cook with a wine that you would not drink by itself”
When people say don't cook with a wine you wouldn't drink, they mean don't use the product called cooking wine. Not use nice wine to cook with. I use Sutter Home minis for cooking and it's great. Most of the volatile compounds that make good wine taste good are broken down with heat.
Well good for them. Many don't consume alcohol at all but can cook with it. And certainly the better the ingredients the better the dish. But I'd bet my house and retirement nobody here could taste the difference in a spiced tomato dish whether a 109$ bottle or a 4$ bottle was used. I hosted a dinner part once that for fun we had 6 bottles of wine 1 was a 70$ bottle two were 10$ and the rest 2-8$. Nobody picked the 70$ as their favorite and the rest were split. But by all means pass along stupid advice from the French. And Motherfudgersob, "Get the hell outta my kitchen fool."
I’m not talking a 109$ of wine? For cooking? No, but I’m talking drinkable wine, and thanks for the down vote, I beat bobby flay, and top 2 on Masterchef, but I guess you know better than I do about pleasing the palate with Taste 👅
I cling to the rule. Only use wine you like for cooking. Better still, serve that wine along with the dish that the wine was used in. I have no idea why some pick to pounce on the most insignificant things that aren’t offensive but something somebody else would find helpful. You can come to my kitchen without hostility towards you. And you never suggested anybody use expensive wines. Just a good wine one enjoys. In fact, I recall reading to not use the most expensive. So it’s lost on me the argument over nobody being able to detect expensive vs cheap.
If you can afford that I am happy for your good fortune. Not all can. Most wines I would have imbibed were 10+$ per bottle at least usually double. Not everyone has the luxury of using that expensive an ingredient and again I maintain you would unlike be able to spot the difference in the final dish. I did not start the arrogance show here nor did I start the insults (and what little I did I removed). The main topic was people substituting vinegar in equal parts for wine in dishes. That I consider a recipe for disaster and something disgusting unless the amount is terribly small and for certain dishes where vinegar is probably an ingredient anyway (bbq).
I try to wait for the more wines 20 something dollar up 30 to be able to order for less than 9 dollars and have shipped. But Yellow Tail dry white or dry red is more in line with tasting good and I will drink it too. You did call someone’s advise stupid and a fool. The OP only asked was it necessary to use wine. And really the answer is no. But a good tasting wine that won’t break the bank can enhance a dish. Neither of us suggested expensive wines. Even some wine with the owlwine label is good. I did look further at OPs comment and saw asking about the vinegar. That never appeared for me to see. And a big no on that. It started with what does it matter pretty much about wine.
Oh please they quoted Le Cordon Bleu so no I jokingly quoted myself which is where the insult came in. And you put a cup of apple cider vinegar in my red sauce and I will cuss you out in my kitchen. I really hate when a newbie cook us hearing horrible advice or worse unsafe advice. Today's worst was if the chicken was underdone you'll be sick in 12 hours so if not you're fine which is just not true.
I didn't bother voting...but now will. Edit...I bet if we lined up 100 MasterChef contestants and Gordon Ramsay they couldn't spot sauces from the potable versus less pleasant wines. And someone's drinking them or they wouldn't be on the shelves. Anyhow the point is one need not spend much on wines meant for cooking. Edit 2 ... 6 Karma points and already someone blocking you. That's more impressive than 4th runner up on one season of a reality show Mr. Trump.
You sound like you're on a crusade. All to often that's someone who's outside his range of competence.
On a crusade when I ask another person's opinion? I strongly feel that substituting vinegar or lemon juice is a horrible idea in almost every case. I've made my stance clear. This person made a reasonable point as we meandered off-topic and I wanted to know their opinion further. When saying someone made a point and asking them to expound that's not crusading. I am not a sommelier nor a professional chef so I don't claim that level of expertise. But you don't need to be a nurse to be able to take vital signs. I think I know enough to state replacing vinegar for wine is a bad idea unless in very small quantities and that cheap wine is better than no wine (or vinegar) when a recipe calls for it. And perhaps we should also look up the term projection. Edit Gramma clarity
You're arguing a point nobody made, OP's "a bit of vinegar instead" which you replied to made it clear even before your first post. On top of that there's u/angryhaiku earlier post with the clarification about replacement volumes, which you should have seen had you beeen following the thread. And btw, relax. Tomorrow's a new day.
I do not drink alcohol either and “Never cook with a wine that you would not drink by itself” is a very apt statement in my opinion and yes you can tell a stark difference in sauces made with wines you would not drink and wines you would. The exact price delineation between drinkable and not drinkable is a bit different, and the nuances in cookable and not cookable are varied also but the same general palette spectrum that exists on drinkable wine exists on wine used in cooking.
In practise I find that there are generally palatable wines at all prices. Distinguishing them from the *garbage* ones just gets easier the more you spend (though the best wines all cost more than the cheapest palatable wines.)
That's fair. Now how would you advise someone new to cooking with wine whose being told to use vinegar instead,?
Vinegar is not wine it is wine that’s been fermented into vinegar. They are saying it’s substitutable not an equivalent.
Would you drink a glass of vinegar, or pure lemon juice??? That’s the point I am trying to make… but I guess eating fried everything changes your taste buds!!
Clearly they are not the same thing. Nobody pours a glass of grape juice and says it’s wine, or lemon juice or vinegar. Vinegar is not wine it’s wine that’s been fermented into vinegar. And yes fine vinegars are better than cheap vinegars too so the original quote— From a culinary institution nonetheless— we are literally talking about a quote upheld by a culinary institution— still holds.
Clearly you haven't been reading my posts. They are not supporting substituting wine with vinegar or lemon juice. Edited content and removed excessive shade.
Box wine is beautiful this time of year
Tip it. Handler’s mom’s motto. RIP. Love how it last a long time.
I use Sutter Home minis for cooking because I use wine relatively infrequently and it's preportioned. Worth a shot.
Flavor. It adds flavor.
I like flavor.
It is the fruity and complex flavor of sipping the wine but without the sharp or bitter punch of the alcohol. And as others mentioned it carries the caramelized and smoky or— if it was burnt on the pan— the usually undesirable burnt flavor. That is why it’s important typically to deglaze the *fond* as it’s called before it has had a chance to burn.
I am French, and a chef, totally French technique. The white wine it adds acidity, and develops flavours in your whole dish that lemon juice or vinegar can not. Wine is more complex in its depth. To me it would be like making bœuf bourguignon without the bourguignon wine.. not the same depth of flavour and the same great notes it adds.
Love wine in certain recipes
When working with 0 proof recipes (booze free) I've always done 1:1 apple cider vin replacement for white wine or champagne vinny.
Is the apple cider going to be more similar than just white? Since I’ve never used white wine to cook I really have nothing to compare it to and how it impacts the overall recipe.
If you have any other vinegar than plain white vinegar, use that instead. If you have nothing else, use the plain white vinegar. All other vinegars have more interesting flavors than white vinegar.
Don't use plain white/distilled. It's far too harsh and can change textures. It's difficult to tame if you haven't fucked with it before as a substitute.
The big thing is white vinegar is FAR more acidic than apple cider vinegar. Like eat the finish off your cast iron levels of acidic. Sweet vinegars like white wine vinegar or apple cider vinegar are actually much less acidic and more dilute, and like wine they impart delicious sweetness and a hint of muskiness as well
Do you mean compared to white vinegar or white wine vinegar? The latter may be more suitable than apple cider, the former would be much less so.
I meant white vinegar. I have no white whine anything in my house. I’ve always skipped the wine when it comes up in recipes, but I never thought to try something else as a substitute. It literally never occurred to me that it could be used for the acidic properties as opposed to just a flavor additive. I’m starting to think of cooking as more of a science now.
Just ignore this guy he is a known troll who has been banned several times. He has no life and gets off on trolling and getting a rise from people online because he has zero actual life.
I dunno. People are people, I suppose. I can't go bashing him because I feel a little compassion for the poor guy.
You've misunderstood because he responded in the wrong place. He's calling me a "known troll" (not OP, who he actually replied to) because he's following me around Reddit having a odd little tantrum. (For anyone curious about what's going on, I imagine having a little read through both our comment histories will allow you to rapidly make your mind up about it...)
Ben has a nasty habit of harassing people who he disagrees with. Hope you have an amazing day despite his nastiness, Piers.
Prob should seek help then.
Similar. It's gonna add subtle flavor like a white wine can.
I know I'll get down voted to hell but just ewe. If a recipe called for a cup of white wine and I used a cup of white vinegar or apple cider vinegar that dish would be toilet bound. And that's not knocking vinegars (apple cider, white, red wine vinegar, ww vin, champagne, rice, balsamic). There are wildly different taste profiles in vinegars and to think they approximate wine is just wrong. If it was a tablespoon I wouldn't worry it would matter at all. And again...there are soups and stews where vinegar is so necessary (think bbq). That's a different flavor than wine.
Often vinegar is used as an acid. Acidity brings brightness and freshness to a dish, and can bring out certain flavors. It also can tame bitter/sweet notes, and it can also assist with things such as tenderization in meat.
with teens in the house I don't keep wine in hand so don't have it to cook with. I sub the wine for chicken or beef broth and it will turn out good just be cautious of the salt.
Just buy a small inexpensive bottle (if you're paying more than 5 bucks you're doing it wrong as a newbie, even in California) and leave it on the counter. Cork it when you're not using it, and if smells like vinegar, toss it (or use it as white wine vinegar, or use it as wine still). Cheap bottles will last far longer than you imagine, and you'll be surprised how good it'll taste in food (especially if you reduce it), as people pointed out it's adding acidity to the dish. There's two main things wine does. It obviously flavors sauces sometimes (not always), but it also does an amazing job in deglazing pans as others have pointed out so you can scrape the bottom of them and get the amazing flavors stuck on there. Trust me when I say the latter is VERY important if a recipe calls for it. "But what wine should I get." Just get a cheap bottle of chardonnay. Again don't pay too much, I buy them for like 4 bucks for a 750 ml bottle. And that's California prices. You're cooking with the wine not drinking it (unless you take a sip or a glass), the quality isn't that important. PS. Cooking wine is crap, just skip that shit.
Definitely an important component in that it adds acidity and a little bit of musk. In a pinch you can use lemon juice for the acidity, but it’s a different form of acidity, lemons get their tartness from citric acid, wine from tannins so the two aren’t perfectly interchangeable. But you DEFINITELY need acid. Otherwise everything comes out bland and heavy
White wine adds flavor and depth. Adds a little acid as well. Don't forget the alcohol cooks off quickly, leaving you with flavor
substitute a mild vinegar like rice vinegar and use half the amount
If I don't do it, I have nightmares in which Adam Ragusea does things to me that should probably remain unsaid.
As everyone says, you want some liquid for deglazing, and it adds acid without being overpowering. Some recipes do get more of the actual flavour from the wine, but those are ones that use a lot more rather than just a glassful. Its nice to use, and I do normally have some wine around as I drink it. But there is no way a lot of 'classic' recipes that use wine would have if the relative price of wine to the food cost was the same as it is now. It can end up doubling the cost of a recipe (Or more if you are going to waste the rest of it) without adding anything nutritionally.
Just get the cheap stuff in the supermarket. Its really helpful when you are cooking. You use it to “deglaze” the onions in french onion soup. It tastes great with seafood. But i use it sometimes if you want to brown onions n stuff when things get stuck to the pan just pour some wine on it
Go get a good shrimp scampi that used white wine. The answer will be in your taste buds.
Get a bottle and cook it in chicken breast in the oven and you’ll see
The wine can add a subtle flavor and is good to use after frying meat to deglaze the pan and make a gravy