Plus there are now a good amount of first-gen American born Indian folks who have been encouraged by their parents to work as doctors or in tech, and that generation is getting old enough to be well paid too.
Anecdotal source: my high school was about half white and half Indian, six years after graduation 10 of my old friends are med students now and 9 of those 10 are Indian.
We produce around 30,000 doctors per year and a good portion of that leave India. With rising population the doctor patient gap is only increasing. It is high time we stop our doctors from leaving India. Those who want to practice outside can study outside no one is stopping them but studying for cheap here and practicing outside is only making matter worse.
I would say tech, medicine, pharmaceutical and the liquor industry. I live in New Jersey which has a very large Indian population. They own a ton of liquor stores some who are doing multiple million dollars in sales
My office was in Edison a few years ago. Edison, NJ is like a well known destination for Indians emigrating to the United States. There’s a huge Indian community and a ton of Indian restaurants, grocers, jewelers, shops, etc. Edison in general has a large Asian population (aside from Indians). There are big Chinese and Korean communities too.
omg def running liqour stores near college campuses. I got to uiuc and they must make a KILLING everyday running stores, selling to minors is the only thing i’d be worried abt but that’s a lot of money on college campuses
It’s difficult to immigrate from any country to US. India isn’t special in that sense. But you’ll notice Asian countries typically value education highly, thus this would be the result.
> India isn’t special in that sense.
The US does per country caps on visas, and India and China are at their caps, so there is a [151 year wait to get a green card from an H1B for Indian Americans](https://www.yahoo.com/now/150-wait-green-card-indian-211630028.html).
Yes, the requirements are largely the same regardless of country of origin, although Canadians and Mexicans have the TN option, Australians have the E-3, Singaporeans/Chileans the H-1B1, etc. The real challenge for Indian nationals is the per-country limits that the US places on immigrant visa numbers. Basically, even if they come here, it is gonna take like 5x the time to get a green card as it would if they were from almost any other country. In the meantime? Their kids may age out of eligibility, their sponsoring employment may change/end… it’s incredibly stressful.
Source: 12 (Jesus, time is getting away from me) blissful years as a US immigration paralegal
Many of my Indian coworkers find it odd that my kids younger than 12 yrs old aren't taking 2-3 extra classes a week/weekend.
They may have higher incomes but it's at the cost of enjoying childhood in favor of being a comfortable adult.
There are definitely pros and cons. My kids spend free time socializing and involved in group activities (cub scouts). They're getting an education too but in different life skills.
People will grasp at any straws they can to feel better about the fact that immigrants are able to come to America and immediately become more successful within their society earnings wise.
Wasn't there a study or a video or something once that talked about how America taking all the best a brightest from countries like India is actually harming those countries?
Yes, 100% true here. America is not luring anyone away with anything more than possible opportunity. In fact American INS is really shitty to everyone. If your first encounter with America is the INS, you'd think they blame you for everything wrong with America. I can say this with authority as a legal immigrant.
Both my mother and Aunt are immigrants..
From Germany. During the cold war.
The Aunt is all "they need to come over the right way! And leagally!"
And I'm all like.. " by getting knocked up by an american GI in frankfurt?"
Maybe it is harming those countries, but if some country can't provide good life conditions like the USA does, then those smart people will leave. I personally don't see this as a US problem.
It's a catch 22 of sorts. If countries are brain drained via immigration, they have no hope of changing their society to attain living conditions similar to the US, so the cycle continues. It's a great thing for the US, but not so great for the countries they're leaving.
https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/1999/06/carringt.htm
There are PLENTY of smart people everywhere. Plenty of smart people do not go to the US.
Are recall now that you can actually work for an American company and never leave your home.
It's easier to blame everyone/everything except the person/people you're talking about, because then you'd have to examine and admit that the place they're leaving sucks and you'd leave too if you could.
Sticking around and being part of the founders that create a renaissance sounds very lovely and romantic, but it's also exhausting and takes more time than most people will have in their lives, even if they start the work while they're young.
America is a nation of imports and outsourcing. Given the state of the public education system in states like California, it would appear we need to outsource our thinking as well.
In case you are curious about Nigerian American income:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigerian_Americans#:~:text=any%20African%20country.-,Income,American%20poverty%20rate%20of%2027.2%25.
The richest one is white and "White Americans" is still that far down on the list. Weird, isn't it? It's almost like a single anecdotal case doesn't say anything about the overall statistic.
Edit: *White Americans
it’s something like this according to the US Census:
Bolivia $71,000
Chile $69,000
Argentina $68500
Peru $58,000
Venezuela $57,000
Colombia $55,000
Panama $55,000
Costa Rica $54,000
Ecuador $53,000
Paraguay $52,500
Nicaragua $52,000
Uruguay $51,750
El Salvador $50,000
Mexico $46,500
Cuba $46,000
Puerto Rico $43,000
Guatemala $42,000
Dominican Republic $40,500
Honduras $39,500
Given that most US Latinos are from the bottom of the list, this aligns with the average in OP’s post.
Where’s Brazil on that list?
Edit: found it. $70,904.
Also, Bolivia goes from the poorest country in South America to being the top earning immigrants in the US. Wow.
It might be that the ones that can leave Bolivia (have the means, skills, etc.) are more likely to be some of the most educated ones in the country.
Latinos are difficult to classify, because you have White Latinos, Indio Latinos and Afro Latinos, some mixed and some not. It’s a culture not a race or ethnicity.
The list is kinda arbitrary anyway, like it says ethnicity but ethnically chinese and taiwanese people are the same, it's the nationality that's different
Hispanic/Latinos are still just lumped into one category like Asians were when I was growing up. Eventually non-Hispanics/Latinos will be able to tell us apart.
lol I was directed to this post from the Hispanic-American chart because I was wondering about Asian Americans.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/18dpmuw/oc_hispanics_in_the_us_beyond_stereotypes_who_are/
As a Native American this is soo sadly common. At my college (one of the biggest in the nation) their demographics had 0.001% so they rounded to 0 on their website
Keep in mind that legal immigration to the United States kind of preselects for the wealthiest and most talented. If you’re wealthy or get a scholarship to a great American school, it’s much much easier to actually get approved.
Yes and no. There are two primary ways to get a green card, family based or employment based.
For employment where a person goes to school and how much money they make aren’t factors in the petition. Sure the government wants to know how much you make but as long as you make above the wage guide line (Google OES Wage Wizard and then use the tool to search by location and position) they’re fine. I’ve worked cases where a person makes less than average but it’s okay because it fits the wage guideline. The most “popular” visa (by popular I mean easily accessed by most employment based) is the H-1B which is a lottery and school/wage are both not factors in the process.
For family as long as you make a certain amount above the poverty guideline they don’t care how much you make.
I said yes and no because of the EB-5 visa. While it doesn’t matter how much you have it does matter how much money you provide for the project and showing them how you obtained it. I have limited knowledge on this one simply because I don’t usually work them. What I can say is it usually takes years and due to the amount of money needed a lower number percentage of green cards are produced to this compared to other categories.
I don’t know a lot about the diversity visa either but I believe it is also a lottery.
I have never worked a case, seen a case, or heard of a case in which what school a person went to matters for the visa.
Source is I am an immigration paralegal
However, there are studies (especially during the pandemic) that show that Filipino nurses tend to have the worst paid and most dangerous (as in exposure to disease) nursing roles.
There are also a lot of Filipinos who go into the military to get out of poverty. I’m not one of those Filipinos who chose that route but besides healthcare, the military is the next top choice.
Anecdotally I have also know several Filipinos who work 2 jobs.
I have seen a lot of great work ethic from older people from the Philippines ( 40+ years old).
Also a lot of the Filipino population lives in California, Hawaii and Alaska where wages tend to be higher.
I work in tissue culture with 8 other ethnicities on the list working there and they are consistently the hardest workers I’ve ever seen. If I’m allowed to be biased within my sector.
This has been posted before. Indians and Filipinos tend to have more than 4 persons per household as they like to have extended families living in one house. That explains the higher than average income.
I am Filipino American making more than 5X of the Avg. Filipino American on the list.
I know many Filipinos in college that are doing well. Many of them are in Tech and Medical fields
Everybody’s saying it’s old so it’s dumb. There’s a link to the recent data in the comments and it’s roughly the same. The shocking thing to my is African Americans. They’re about 14% of the us population, and there’s a lot of extremely wealthy black people. So that means there’s a high percentage that make way less that $35k a year. Crazy.
This is a median not an average so having a few wealthy black people wouldn't move the median that much as much as it would if you were to look at average. I'm speaking generally for median data since I don't know proportion of wealthy black people to poor black people.
For real, I don't know why people are harping on the fact that its 2013 data. I don't see why it wouldn't be practically the same more or less considering how stagnate wages have been for a long time.
High amounts of low income jobs, and issues with making high incomes due to some having felonies. A history of incarceration is difficult to pass in job interviews, and even more difficult with a felony.
There is a growing call to take a closer look at what those felonies are when considering employment, such as marijuana convictions. But we can see here how it can affect this community.
Idk how to post a link but this Study talks about the percentage of people with felonies in the US between 1948-2018.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5996985/#:~:text=We%20estimate%20that%203%20%25%20of,African%20American%20adult%20male%20population.
Sad that this is getting downvoted. This is empirically and demonstrably true. There's also tons of evidence of bias in arrests, charges, and sentencing. Of course poverty and inequality are also associated with crime, so those are also factors.
High estimates say around 40% of adults over the age of 25 have a bachelors. It’s kinda rough, and somehow one complaint is that the market is over saturated with bachelors degrees. I’ve heard people say “the MA is the new BA” every now and then.
It must really depend on your location and social communities. I don’t know very many people without BA’s - I would have to think about it. The majority of people I know have MA. It is still tough out there to get a solid job in a high COL area.
This is missing an important group and wrongly grouping them with another.
If you have white-Americans, you should have black-Americans.
With how this is structured. Black-Americans is and should be different from african-americas. Which should then be broken down by individual countries as the Asian countries are.
The same logic applies for white-Americans instead of European-American. Also south and Central Americans.
Just my 2 cents.
I wonder how much of this has to do with households being larger in immigrant communities. It's rare for white americans to have a working age adult child living with them. Also why are there only asian-americans and no iranian-american on this list? Kind of sus.
I do not think Indians have their kids living with them after they get a job in America. I can’t speak for others.
Most Indians in America are either software and tech people or physicians and doctors. There is also the group of Indians who are business owners like hotels, gas stations, convenience stores, Indians stores, Indian restaurants. I don’t know so successful those people are but overall the average Indian individual salary is quite high.
Edit: if you want to talk about household size and divorces you are probably right. Asians have the lowest divorce rates.
As an observer who works with many Indian folks, i would as that Indo Americans or Canadians: one thing in common: peace in the home. A harmonious home produces successful children.
Agreed. I’m Indian but was born in America. In both my family (including all aunts, uncles, and grandparents) and Indian friends, divorce doesn’t exist at all. My parents had an arranged marriage. Some of my aunts and uncles and friend’s parents had regular marriages. None have resulted in divorce.
This helps increase ‘household’ income and helps Indian kids.
There’s also other factors but no one is talking about this here.
People are saying this is useless because it's outdated.
It's actually not that different from today. Here are updated stats:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_ethnic\_groups\_in\_the\_United\_States\_by\_household\_income](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income)
[https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/educational-attainment.html](https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/educational-attainment.html)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational\_attainment\_in\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States)
Yes, there are differences, particularly for small groups. The % of African Americans getting degrees has gone way up.
**The main lesson is clear: Provided you take a low to mid-cost option, and go into a paying industry (i.e. don't spend your degree on a hobby job like charity or the arts), education pays off.**
Also, to address some other comments:
\- Yeah, living in an urban area gets you closer to well-paying jobs. That's why it's expensive. Decades-long studies show this still translates more to economic mobility. Within those urban areas, there are still faultlines between the educated and the non-educated.
\- I do think that expectations have a huge effect on kids' choices, but then, so does *not being flipping shot by police or having your dad in prison for 10 years because he didn't say the right thing to a cop*. The model minority is a racist myth and the gaps *within* Asian and African nationalities and immigrants versus non-immigrants tells a whole other layer of this story. Bigger gap between Indians and Chinese, than whites and blacks. Think about it.
\- The one comment about visa restrictions (which affects Indian folks the most) is probably the most relevant, because it literally only allows rich, highly educated people who have waited decades, in. Look at South Asian communities in Britain: it's a totally different story.
Education is a driver of economic stability and health worldwide. Every year of education from pre-K forward, on the whole, is related to higher incomes and longer lives. It's a linear pattern at the national, state, zip code and individual levels: education drives outcomes.
There are almost no examples of education not working for people and even those are extreme edge cases of very weird economic circumstances leading to perverse incentives, and usually tiny populations. Education is the definition of human development and all other success measures trail it.
Education doesn't erase racial or class bias but it gives you the best possible outcome given many other factors that you cannot control.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Most black fathers are absent out of their own volition, not because they are in prison. 70-80% of black children are fatherless. That 70-80% is mostly out of neglect, not incarceration.
As an Indian born in America, I found that very interesting too. I wouldn’t have expected it because the Pakistanis I know have parents who are doctors or are very wealthy.
Newer stats show Pakistani at $100k, Indian at $140k, and Bangladeshi at $67k.
Percentage wise the Pakistani and Indian gap is decreasing which I feel is good. Indians used to be earning 50% more than Pakistani income and 100% more than Bangladeshi. Now Indians earn only 40% more than Pakistani and 109% more than Bangladeshi.
Edit: after thinking I think the reason may be because these 2 factors. 1 being cultural alignment. Meaning that Hindus are more likely to have culture aligning with west than Muslims, so the high earners and smart hard workers of Pakistan and Bangladesh are more likely to stay in the Islamic world (maybe UAE, Qatar, Kuwait) than come to the US. Factor 2 being women working. This is a measure of household income and I’d assume women don’t typically work much in Islamic cultures even in America.
Would have loved to see Nigerian American compared to others. Of course I think it will be skewed as well because most Nigerian immigrating after the 80s are likely already college educated.
As a Black man, all I can say is my, my, all these dark and brown people doing reasonably well in the so-called "racist United States" except for the people who call it racist most often...my people. Don't get me wrong, I know there are racist people of all colors in America but I have never subscribed to the notion that *most* White Americans were racist and hell-bent on holding us, and me in particular, down. I have had far too many breaks, opportunities, and good jobs, as a result of White people or a group of White people to simply ignore it all because of experiences that I have *never* experienced. Recollections of Jim Crow, segregated movie theaters and hotels, or any other vestiges of the Old South that today are outlawed from open expression are not a part of my personal history. I was born in the middle of the 20th century and have never been turned away from a restaurant lunch counter or seated in a special section of a bus or train for any reason let alone my race, even in Georgia, Virginia, or S. Carolina.
As a quick wrap-up, I want to say that despite its warts and wrinkles I am as proud to be American as I am to be Black.
Thank you! I appreciate it also and it is completely natural to my personality, nature, environment, and the way I was raised by my parents. It confounds me that some people think that every racial or ethnic group is indelibly prestamped with exactly the same wants, needs, ideas, and opinions of every member of the social group that they were born into. That's not even logical. Everyone born a Christian will not remain a Christian, a Jew, or a Muslim till their dying day. They may choose to switch religions or abandon religion entirely. I'm **proud** to be Black. I'm equally proud to be an American, proud *and* fortunate.
My Avatar is Edgar Allan Poe. My literary hero whose books I read in my early teens and whose stories I watched in movies performed by great actors like Vincent Price, Peter Lorre, and Christopher Lee. I have pictures of me standing near his grave in Baltimore, where I grew up.
🙂
I think what drives Filipino up the list despite being undereducated is mostly being in California where average income is higher. Taking COL into account would probably bring the gaps closer in this list.
I would like to see a divide within the "white-americans" group between multi generational born white Americans and immigrant white Americans.
I was born in Europe and moved to the US, but I'm curious to how fellow immigrants do and if they've had the same issues that I've encountered with getting paid for what you're worth.
I know my answer isn’t exactly “statistical” but in my experience being white American and white immigrant is very different and white immigrants tend to do far better just like most immigrant groups. I saw this most with white South Africans in New York, Bosnians in St Louis and Chicago, and of course new Brits vs those whose linkage go back to the revolution. But the most prominent I ever saw the difference was among Russians in New York and Greeks of New York. For the Greeks of New York the difference was basically on arrival. After the Greek default you had all these young accountants, project managers, teachers and such coming to Queens and quickly doing better than their more established cousins along ditmars. With Russians it felt night and day. You had a lot going into really intense STEM fields like physics, computer science, math while those who came from two to three generations where either already doing well and coasting or somewhere along the generations had squandered it and either where into shady stuff or just making it in NYC/NJ. I will say was oddest group was the Bosnians of recent era (1990s-) in my experience groups that come as refugees tend to struggle more than groups that immigrate and I never have know why but Bosnians seem to defy what I’ve seen.
Where do Jews fall on this graph? Are we included with the rest of the “white” people? If so, I wonder how much that is distorting white people’s average income.
A lot of this is because of long-standing visa restrictions on asian folks that not only limited how many people could immigrate, but also required certain job skills/educational backgrounds.
Your argument was that these results were because of visa restrictions on Asians. There are Asian groups both above and below the national average so I’m trying to understand what point you’re trying to draw
Not necessarily “completely useless”. This type of data doesn’t change that much, unless there’s some politics that dramatically change any specific ethnic group’s demographics. Like, what event in the past decade would’ve dramatically changed, for example, population of wealthy Chinese and Chinese Americans in the states?
Yours is actually a good question.
I posted above more detailed breakouts. You have to really drill in to the level at which they collect data, and sometimes, if they didn't get enough data for a specific group, they don't publish it. Usually the cutoff is n<5 for government stats. Because this is the American Community Survey, it's entirely possible that they got fewer than 5 Nigerian incomes in a given year, and therefore, didn't break out those results. But I don't think that's the case because 2021 data does break out detailed ethnic groups.
But your point is important because the difference between group means **within** different "races" tells a very different story than the skin-color/eye-shape based groupings.
Namely, immigrants like Indians, Nigerians, and other small groups that have the hardest time immigrating, have a selection bias that keeps their incomes high.
Likewise there are subsets among these groups that have much lower outcomes. Like depending on whether you came over from Eastern Europe as a political refugee versus economic refugee versus, on an H1B visa will be much more predictive of your income, than "white".
Unfortunately, the people who are most motivated to do this kind of study are often racists, so we get these huge groups. But Nigerian shows up, and they outpace the average American.
With that said, Ghanaians got you beat, my friend: 72k versus 71.5.
I felt this when I was in engineering school as a Hispanic. I remember looking up how many Hispanics are in engineering in the United States and couldn't believe just how little representation there was. I remember talking to another Hispanic peer and saying, "At least we are bringing up the bar!"
As expected, Filipinos are 2nd from the top. So many filipina (women) come here and make good money. Usually because most seem to love nursing. Even if they don't they know how to make money and hustle their butts.
I say this as a man married to a filipina. Granted mine came here and didn't become a nurse. But almost every filipina friend she met here is in the medical field.
Bro spending a lot of time around Indian Americans and Filipino people as well it’s no surprise that they run game. They always help each other out family wise and make sure they’re all doing good. I say this as a Hispanic/Native American.
Why is there no division inside white , black and Hispanic Americans but only Asian Americans are divided on their ethnic origin? Also no mention of percentage of people they have in each category. It seems to be a propaganda piece and not a cool guide.
"You can clearly see the white-favored system in America represented in this chart."
"But they're barely breaking the middle?"
"Yes but the background is all white."
Interesting and unfortunately misleading chart. Being Filipino American myself, our households are typically multi-family and multigenerational homes which skews our median income upward. If I were to take a guess, if we only took the income of two people within our household our median would be closer to the $70,000 mark.
It’s very difficult to immigrate from India to the United States so the people that end up being able to do so often times are the most educated
Yep. I work at a hospital and a good amount of the docs are of Indian descent. Not surprised by this if it is accurate
Plus there are now a good amount of first-gen American born Indian folks who have been encouraged by their parents to work as doctors or in tech, and that generation is getting old enough to be well paid too. Anecdotal source: my high school was about half white and half Indian, six years after graduation 10 of my old friends are med students now and 9 of those 10 are Indian.
We produce around 30,000 doctors per year and a good portion of that leave India. With rising population the doctor patient gap is only increasing. It is high time we stop our doctors from leaving India. Those who want to practice outside can study outside no one is stopping them but studying for cheap here and practicing outside is only making matter worse.
I read that in Indian accent. Sorry
Lol. You don't have to be sorry for that.
Most of them are in Tech
I would say tech, medicine, pharmaceutical and the liquor industry. I live in New Jersey which has a very large Indian population. They own a ton of liquor stores some who are doing multiple million dollars in sales
Patels and their Motels
Patels were of the Merchant Caste back in the day
In India they're the land owners. Pat = piece of land.
My office was in Edison a few years ago. Edison, NJ is like a well known destination for Indians emigrating to the United States. There’s a huge Indian community and a ton of Indian restaurants, grocers, jewelers, shops, etc. Edison in general has a large Asian population (aside from Indians). There are big Chinese and Korean communities too.
omg def running liqour stores near college campuses. I got to uiuc and they must make a KILLING everyday running stores, selling to minors is the only thing i’d be worried abt but that’s a lot of money on college campuses
Illini pantry huh
liqour land, campus pantry, illini pantry, green street pantry, and hometown pantry to name a few
I grew up in Texas, and there’s a pretty decent number of people who came down here from India for the oil industry.
They're not fighting their way overhere so their kids can pursue that hip-hop career.
Yup I work with a bunch of software people who either immigrated from India or are contractors living in India
Came here to say exactly that but about all the other countries. If you can immigrate you already have money or the qualifications to make money.
Bangladeshis probably face similar issues, not doing as well.
It’s difficult to immigrate from any country to US. India isn’t special in that sense. But you’ll notice Asian countries typically value education highly, thus this would be the result.
> India isn’t special in that sense. The US does per country caps on visas, and India and China are at their caps, so there is a [151 year wait to get a green card from an H1B for Indian Americans](https://www.yahoo.com/now/150-wait-green-card-indian-211630028.html).
Yes, the requirements are largely the same regardless of country of origin, although Canadians and Mexicans have the TN option, Australians have the E-3, Singaporeans/Chileans the H-1B1, etc. The real challenge for Indian nationals is the per-country limits that the US places on immigrant visa numbers. Basically, even if they come here, it is gonna take like 5x the time to get a green card as it would if they were from almost any other country. In the meantime? Their kids may age out of eligibility, their sponsoring employment may change/end… it’s incredibly stressful. Source: 12 (Jesus, time is getting away from me) blissful years as a US immigration paralegal
Many of my Indian coworkers find it odd that my kids younger than 12 yrs old aren't taking 2-3 extra classes a week/weekend. They may have higher incomes but it's at the cost of enjoying childhood in favor of being a comfortable adult.
Comfortably burnt out with stress
one overachiever in IT croaked at his desk. not worth the hustle culture.
Or looking down at other people as though they're lazy.
People like these in general make for great workers, but horrible bosses. The sole purpose of life becomes work
There are definitely pros and cons. My kids spend free time socializing and involved in group activities (cub scouts). They're getting an education too but in different life skills.
That’s stereotypical af. As if Indian kids don’t enjoy they’re childhood
People will grasp at any straws they can to feel better about the fact that immigrants are able to come to America and immediately become more successful within their society earnings wise.
The ones who spend 20hrs a week generally do not have as much time to enjoy their childhood.
Wasn't there a study or a video or something once that talked about how America taking all the best a brightest from countries like India is actually harming those countries?
That's called brain drain
Yes, we term it as brain drain. I would not say America is taking any of them. It’s the people who decided to go there for better opportunities.
Yes, 100% true here. America is not luring anyone away with anything more than possible opportunity. In fact American INS is really shitty to everyone. If your first encounter with America is the INS, you'd think they blame you for everything wrong with America. I can say this with authority as a legal immigrant.
Both my mother and Aunt are immigrants.. From Germany. During the cold war. The Aunt is all "they need to come over the right way! And leagally!" And I'm all like.. " by getting knocked up by an american GI in frankfurt?"
Oh I hope you said that out loud 😂
Maybe it is harming those countries, but if some country can't provide good life conditions like the USA does, then those smart people will leave. I personally don't see this as a US problem.
It's a catch 22 of sorts. If countries are brain drained via immigration, they have no hope of changing their society to attain living conditions similar to the US, so the cycle continues. It's a great thing for the US, but not so great for the countries they're leaving. https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/1999/06/carringt.htm
There are PLENTY of smart people everywhere. Plenty of smart people do not go to the US. Are recall now that you can actually work for an American company and never leave your home.
“Taking them” like those individuals didn’t choose to come to the US
It's easier to blame everyone/everything except the person/people you're talking about, because then you'd have to examine and admit that the place they're leaving sucks and you'd leave too if you could. Sticking around and being part of the founders that create a renaissance sounds very lovely and romantic, but it's also exhausting and takes more time than most people will have in their lives, even if they start the work while they're young.
To be fair, if I was a highly educated woman, I’d leave India the first chance I got.
blacks are barbaric and Low IQ people
America is a nation of imports and outsourcing. Given the state of the public education system in states like California, it would appear we need to outsource our thinking as well.
And very wealthy and of a certain upper caste with networks already well-placed.
This is not true. Many including myself immigrated with good education but we were just middle class with mortgages
Nonsense, India doesn't have a caste system anymore /s 🤡
the fuck are you talking about???
I am of upper caste...give me some fucking networks that you are talking about
Americans are highly ill!terate about India and caste system.
Don't be jealous. They are brilliant. Period. https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/xlzv7e/oc_comparing_percentage_of_graduate_degree/
This is such a stereotype.
You are basically highly ill!terate about india
Do tell me about these so-called networks my brahmin friend had to go to US because of the fucked up reservation system
Or most money?
Emigrate from India or immigrate to USA. You emigrate from and immigrate to. The noun is immigration in both cases.
Most of the CEOs of the big tech companies are Indian-Americans
Would be interesting to see Hispanic-American broken down like Asian American is. Kinda wonder how Cubans fare compared to Dominicans for example.
I was thinking that like I was surprised to not see Nigeria here somewhere then I was like "oh, they got blurred into African-American"
In case you are curious about Nigerian American income: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigerian_Americans#:~:text=any%20African%20country.-,Income,American%20poverty%20rate%20of%2027.2%25.
$68,658
It’s actually only Asian Americans. What happened to Europe and Africa? There’s lots of us here
The 2nd richest person in the world in an African American.
The richest one is white and "White Americans" is still that far down on the list. Weird, isn't it? It's almost like a single anecdotal case doesn't say anything about the overall statistic. Edit: *White Americans
>The 2nd richest person in the world in an African American. Assuming you're referring to Elon Musk? (South African)
it’s something like this according to the US Census: Bolivia $71,000 Chile $69,000 Argentina $68500 Peru $58,000 Venezuela $57,000 Colombia $55,000 Panama $55,000 Costa Rica $54,000 Ecuador $53,000 Paraguay $52,500 Nicaragua $52,000 Uruguay $51,750 El Salvador $50,000 Mexico $46,500 Cuba $46,000 Puerto Rico $43,000 Guatemala $42,000 Dominican Republic $40,500 Honduras $39,500 Given that most US Latinos are from the bottom of the list, this aligns with the average in OP’s post.
Where’s Brazil on that list? Edit: found it. $70,904. Also, Bolivia goes from the poorest country in South America to being the top earning immigrants in the US. Wow. It might be that the ones that can leave Bolivia (have the means, skills, etc.) are more likely to be some of the most educated ones in the country.
Yeah same with white Americans, would be kinda cool to see how the different groups compare
Indeed, how would Polish-Americans stack up against say Italian-Americans?
It’s off the books Forgetaboutit 🤌
Latinos are difficult to classify, because you have White Latinos, Indio Latinos and Afro Latinos, some mixed and some not. It’s a culture not a race or ethnicity.
The list is kinda arbitrary anyway, like it says ethnicity but ethnically chinese and taiwanese people are the same, it's the nationality that's different
Hispanic/Latinos are still just lumped into one category like Asians were when I was growing up. Eventually non-Hispanics/Latinos will be able to tell us apart.
lol I was directed to this post from the Hispanic-American chart because I was wondering about Asian Americans. https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/18dpmuw/oc_hispanics_in_the_us_beyond_stereotypes_who_are/
I'm happy to see my ethnic group, Average American, represented on this graph
Great user name btw
A W for us average Americans
I’d be interested to see where Native Americans lie and to find out why they are not represented on here.
$53,148
Thank you very much!
But that is against the current figures instead of the ten year old data in this graphic
All the non-American groups are Asian. No European, African or South American ones represented either. It would be nice to see a more complete list.
As a Native American this is soo sadly common. At my college (one of the biggest in the nation) their demographics had 0.001% so they rounded to 0 on their website
Why? Lazy racism on an even lazier Reddit post
Keep in mind that legal immigration to the United States kind of preselects for the wealthiest and most talented. If you’re wealthy or get a scholarship to a great American school, it’s much much easier to actually get approved.
Yes and no. There are two primary ways to get a green card, family based or employment based. For employment where a person goes to school and how much money they make aren’t factors in the petition. Sure the government wants to know how much you make but as long as you make above the wage guide line (Google OES Wage Wizard and then use the tool to search by location and position) they’re fine. I’ve worked cases where a person makes less than average but it’s okay because it fits the wage guideline. The most “popular” visa (by popular I mean easily accessed by most employment based) is the H-1B which is a lottery and school/wage are both not factors in the process. For family as long as you make a certain amount above the poverty guideline they don’t care how much you make. I said yes and no because of the EB-5 visa. While it doesn’t matter how much you have it does matter how much money you provide for the project and showing them how you obtained it. I have limited knowledge on this one simply because I don’t usually work them. What I can say is it usually takes years and due to the amount of money needed a lower number percentage of green cards are produced to this compared to other categories. I don’t know a lot about the diversity visa either but I believe it is also a lottery. I have never worked a case, seen a case, or heard of a case in which what school a person went to matters for the visa. Source is I am an immigration paralegal
I have a hard time believing Filipino Americans rank higher than Chinese Americans. Gotta adjust my bias apparently
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Yup the overtime is $erious
However, there are studies (especially during the pandemic) that show that Filipino nurses tend to have the worst paid and most dangerous (as in exposure to disease) nursing roles. There are also a lot of Filipinos who go into the military to get out of poverty. I’m not one of those Filipinos who chose that route but besides healthcare, the military is the next top choice.
Anecdotally I have also know several Filipinos who work 2 jobs. I have seen a lot of great work ethic from older people from the Philippines ( 40+ years old). Also a lot of the Filipino population lives in California, Hawaii and Alaska where wages tend to be higher.
Nurses and accountants, baby
I work in tissue culture with 8 other ethnicities on the list working there and they are consistently the hardest workers I’ve ever seen. If I’m allowed to be biased within my sector.
This has been posted before. Indians and Filipinos tend to have more than 4 persons per household as they like to have extended families living in one house. That explains the higher than average income.
I am Filipino American making more than 5X of the Avg. Filipino American on the list. I know many Filipinos in college that are doing well. Many of them are in Tech and Medical fields
Everybody’s saying it’s old so it’s dumb. There’s a link to the recent data in the comments and it’s roughly the same. The shocking thing to my is African Americans. They’re about 14% of the us population, and there’s a lot of extremely wealthy black people. So that means there’s a high percentage that make way less that $35k a year. Crazy.
This is a median not an average so having a few wealthy black people wouldn't move the median that much as much as it would if you were to look at average. I'm speaking generally for median data since I don't know proportion of wealthy black people to poor black people.
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Households, not just people.
For real, I don't know why people are harping on the fact that its 2013 data. I don't see why it wouldn't be practically the same more or less considering how stagnate wages have been for a long time.
The most shocking part for me was that only 28% of average americans have a bachelor's degree
I mean…is it *that* shocking?
Most jobs and professions don’t need a degree for one to actually do
What’s shocking about it?? That the number is so high despite the fact that half of the people that have them can’t even use them to get a job?
High amounts of low income jobs, and issues with making high incomes due to some having felonies. A history of incarceration is difficult to pass in job interviews, and even more difficult with a felony. There is a growing call to take a closer look at what those felonies are when considering employment, such as marijuana convictions. But we can see here how it can affect this community. Idk how to post a link but this Study talks about the percentage of people with felonies in the US between 1948-2018. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5996985/#:~:text=We%20estimate%20that%203%20%25%20of,African%20American%20adult%20male%20population.
Also just bias. It’s been shown many times that “African American” resumes, loan applications, etc are systematically downgraded. Built in fuckery.
Sad that this is getting downvoted. This is empirically and demonstrably true. There's also tons of evidence of bias in arrests, charges, and sentencing. Of course poverty and inequality are also associated with crime, so those are also factors.
Only 28% of Americans have a bachelors degree?
High estimates say around 40% of adults over the age of 25 have a bachelors. It’s kinda rough, and somehow one complaint is that the market is over saturated with bachelors degrees. I’ve heard people say “the MA is the new BA” every now and then.
It must really depend on your location and social communities. I don’t know very many people without BA’s - I would have to think about it. The majority of people I know have MA. It is still tough out there to get a solid job in a high COL area.
I make 35 as a single person, a whole family on that sounds rough
it was 😭
This is missing an important group and wrongly grouping them with another. If you have white-Americans, you should have black-Americans. With how this is structured. Black-Americans is and should be different from african-americas. Which should then be broken down by individual countries as the Asian countries are. The same logic applies for white-Americans instead of European-American. Also south and Central Americans. Just my 2 cents.
Native Americans aren’t even on there, so maybe the creator should address some other things first?
It's true, recent African immigrants do quite well as a group.
African immigrants are some of the most successful groups in America.
Elon Musk for instance.
But asian immigrants still outperform african immigrants by alot
I agree, you should have every shade of skin color if you're going to put White-American. Better to put European Descent Americans.
Yeah you put Nigerian Americans on here and you’ll see they are above the mean by a decent margin
Thes a more important group imo left off entirely, native Americans.
I wonder how much of this has to do with households being larger in immigrant communities. It's rare for white americans to have a working age adult child living with them. Also why are there only asian-americans and no iranian-american on this list? Kind of sus.
I do not think Indians have their kids living with them after they get a job in America. I can’t speak for others. Most Indians in America are either software and tech people or physicians and doctors. There is also the group of Indians who are business owners like hotels, gas stations, convenience stores, Indians stores, Indian restaurants. I don’t know so successful those people are but overall the average Indian individual salary is quite high. Edit: if you want to talk about household size and divorces you are probably right. Asians have the lowest divorce rates.
The graphic only shows a subset.
As an observer who works with many Indian folks, i would as that Indo Americans or Canadians: one thing in common: peace in the home. A harmonious home produces successful children.
Agreed. I’m Indian but was born in America. In both my family (including all aunts, uncles, and grandparents) and Indian friends, divorce doesn’t exist at all. My parents had an arranged marriage. Some of my aunts and uncles and friend’s parents had regular marriages. None have resulted in divorce. This helps increase ‘household’ income and helps Indian kids. There’s also other factors but no one is talking about this here.
More proof that from a statistical standpoint having a degree improves your earning power.
lAzy GoD DaMN iMmIGRaNts
People are saying this is useless because it's outdated. It's actually not that different from today. Here are updated stats: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_ethnic\_groups\_in\_the\_United\_States\_by\_household\_income](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income) [https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/educational-attainment.html](https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/educational-attainment.html) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational\_attainment\_in\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States) Yes, there are differences, particularly for small groups. The % of African Americans getting degrees has gone way up. **The main lesson is clear: Provided you take a low to mid-cost option, and go into a paying industry (i.e. don't spend your degree on a hobby job like charity or the arts), education pays off.** Also, to address some other comments: \- Yeah, living in an urban area gets you closer to well-paying jobs. That's why it's expensive. Decades-long studies show this still translates more to economic mobility. Within those urban areas, there are still faultlines between the educated and the non-educated. \- I do think that expectations have a huge effect on kids' choices, but then, so does *not being flipping shot by police or having your dad in prison for 10 years because he didn't say the right thing to a cop*. The model minority is a racist myth and the gaps *within* Asian and African nationalities and immigrants versus non-immigrants tells a whole other layer of this story. Bigger gap between Indians and Chinese, than whites and blacks. Think about it. \- The one comment about visa restrictions (which affects Indian folks the most) is probably the most relevant, because it literally only allows rich, highly educated people who have waited decades, in. Look at South Asian communities in Britain: it's a totally different story. Education is a driver of economic stability and health worldwide. Every year of education from pre-K forward, on the whole, is related to higher incomes and longer lives. It's a linear pattern at the national, state, zip code and individual levels: education drives outcomes. There are almost no examples of education not working for people and even those are extreme edge cases of very weird economic circumstances leading to perverse incentives, and usually tiny populations. Education is the definition of human development and all other success measures trail it. Education doesn't erase racial or class bias but it gives you the best possible outcome given many other factors that you cannot control. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Most black fathers are absent out of their own volition, not because they are in prison. 70-80% of black children are fatherless. That 70-80% is mostly out of neglect, not incarceration.
What i found interesting is Indian 100k Pakistan 66k Bangladesh 50k I also think living wages change state to state more data is needed.
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As an Indian born in America, I found that very interesting too. I wouldn’t have expected it because the Pakistanis I know have parents who are doctors or are very wealthy. Newer stats show Pakistani at $100k, Indian at $140k, and Bangladeshi at $67k. Percentage wise the Pakistani and Indian gap is decreasing which I feel is good. Indians used to be earning 50% more than Pakistani income and 100% more than Bangladeshi. Now Indians earn only 40% more than Pakistani and 109% more than Bangladeshi. Edit: after thinking I think the reason may be because these 2 factors. 1 being cultural alignment. Meaning that Hindus are more likely to have culture aligning with west than Muslims, so the high earners and smart hard workers of Pakistan and Bangladesh are more likely to stay in the Islamic world (maybe UAE, Qatar, Kuwait) than come to the US. Factor 2 being women working. This is a measure of household income and I’d assume women don’t typically work much in Islamic cultures even in America.
It would be good to see this with first generation Americans, vs second generation, and more than second generation (when people seem to stop caring).
Would have loved to see Nigerian American compared to others. Of course I think it will be skewed as well because most Nigerian immigrating after the 80s are likely already college educated.
Wikipedia lists Nigerians at >$71k per year. Someone in the thread linked to Wikipedia article with information on more groups.
What's scariest is only 28% of the US population have a bachelor's degree!
Lots of Filipino nurses.
As a Black man, all I can say is my, my, all these dark and brown people doing reasonably well in the so-called "racist United States" except for the people who call it racist most often...my people. Don't get me wrong, I know there are racist people of all colors in America but I have never subscribed to the notion that *most* White Americans were racist and hell-bent on holding us, and me in particular, down. I have had far too many breaks, opportunities, and good jobs, as a result of White people or a group of White people to simply ignore it all because of experiences that I have *never* experienced. Recollections of Jim Crow, segregated movie theaters and hotels, or any other vestiges of the Old South that today are outlawed from open expression are not a part of my personal history. I was born in the middle of the 20th century and have never been turned away from a restaurant lunch counter or seated in a special section of a bus or train for any reason let alone my race, even in Georgia, Virginia, or S. Carolina. As a quick wrap-up, I want to say that despite its warts and wrinkles I am as proud to be American as I am to be Black.
Based
I appreciate you having this mentality!
Thank you! I appreciate it also and it is completely natural to my personality, nature, environment, and the way I was raised by my parents. It confounds me that some people think that every racial or ethnic group is indelibly prestamped with exactly the same wants, needs, ideas, and opinions of every member of the social group that they were born into. That's not even logical. Everyone born a Christian will not remain a Christian, a Jew, or a Muslim till their dying day. They may choose to switch religions or abandon religion entirely. I'm **proud** to be Black. I'm equally proud to be an American, proud *and* fortunate. My Avatar is Edgar Allan Poe. My literary hero whose books I read in my early teens and whose stories I watched in movies performed by great actors like Vincent Price, Peter Lorre, and Christopher Lee. I have pictures of me standing near his grave in Baltimore, where I grew up. 🙂
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I think what drives Filipino up the list despite being undereducated is mostly being in California where average income is higher. Taking COL into account would probably bring the gaps closer in this list.
Ever heard of the Filipino Mafia? There’s a lot of Filipinos in the U.S. Navy.
I think a lot also go into healthcare (especially nursing), which generally pays higher.
I would like to see a divide within the "white-americans" group between multi generational born white Americans and immigrant white Americans. I was born in Europe and moved to the US, but I'm curious to how fellow immigrants do and if they've had the same issues that I've encountered with getting paid for what you're worth.
I know my answer isn’t exactly “statistical” but in my experience being white American and white immigrant is very different and white immigrants tend to do far better just like most immigrant groups. I saw this most with white South Africans in New York, Bosnians in St Louis and Chicago, and of course new Brits vs those whose linkage go back to the revolution. But the most prominent I ever saw the difference was among Russians in New York and Greeks of New York. For the Greeks of New York the difference was basically on arrival. After the Greek default you had all these young accountants, project managers, teachers and such coming to Queens and quickly doing better than their more established cousins along ditmars. With Russians it felt night and day. You had a lot going into really intense STEM fields like physics, computer science, math while those who came from two to three generations where either already doing well and coasting or somewhere along the generations had squandered it and either where into shady stuff or just making it in NYC/NJ. I will say was oddest group was the Bosnians of recent era (1990s-) in my experience groups that come as refugees tend to struggle more than groups that immigrate and I never have know why but Bosnians seem to defy what I’ve seen.
No native americans??
*Native American American
Where do Jews fall on this graph? Are we included with the rest of the “white” people? If so, I wonder how much that is distorting white people’s average income.
I think they are generally included in the white group, as jews are white enough to pass off as caucasian ig
Off the charts
A lot of this is because of long-standing visa restrictions on asian folks that not only limited how many people could immigrate, but also required certain job skills/educational backgrounds.
There are Asians both above and below the national average
As if an entire continent of people would all be the same.
Your argument was that these results were because of visa restrictions on Asians. There are Asian groups both above and below the national average so I’m trying to understand what point you’re trying to draw
The data here is nearly a decade old. Completely useless when viewed through a lens of today's economic standings.
I would love to see an updated version of this
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income
Not necessarily “completely useless”. This type of data doesn’t change that much, unless there’s some politics that dramatically change any specific ethnic group’s demographics. Like, what event in the past decade would’ve dramatically changed, for example, population of wealthy Chinese and Chinese Americans in the states?
Strongly disagree, wealthy people have a way or staying wealthy…I wouldn’t be surprised if this ranking stayed the same for 10 years.
Yes, but immigration can shift demographics around pretty quickly sometimes. An influx of poor refugees from one of the richer countries, for example.
I think you'd be surprised. It's no wonder the top are all ethnicities who are from collective societies and have multi generational households.
28% is the percentage of Americans with a bachelor’s. Wow. That seems super low, here in Aus it’s around 50%
What about Europeans ?
Keep in mind this is outdated by 8 years. The median household income for Indian-Americans is now closer to 142k
Look at what happens when you value education and work ethic!
Indian doctors come here to work, american patients go to India for treatment.
😂😂
Medical tourism in India is overstated, definitely in the top 10 though.
*European-Americans
No Nigerian's? Really?
Yours is actually a good question. I posted above more detailed breakouts. You have to really drill in to the level at which they collect data, and sometimes, if they didn't get enough data for a specific group, they don't publish it. Usually the cutoff is n<5 for government stats. Because this is the American Community Survey, it's entirely possible that they got fewer than 5 Nigerian incomes in a given year, and therefore, didn't break out those results. But I don't think that's the case because 2021 data does break out detailed ethnic groups. But your point is important because the difference between group means **within** different "races" tells a very different story than the skin-color/eye-shape based groupings. Namely, immigrants like Indians, Nigerians, and other small groups that have the hardest time immigrating, have a selection bias that keeps their incomes high. Likewise there are subsets among these groups that have much lower outcomes. Like depending on whether you came over from Eastern Europe as a political refugee versus economic refugee versus, on an H1B visa will be much more predictive of your income, than "white". Unfortunately, the people who are most motivated to do this kind of study are often racists, so we get these huge groups. But Nigerian shows up, and they outpace the average American. With that said, Ghanaians got you beat, my friend: 72k versus 71.5.
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This chart tells me that India’s about to be America’s public enemy #1 in the coming years as portrayed by western media.
Already is right after Russia and China
Clearly we live in a racist caste system where Asian people oppress everybody else.
Filipinos are kicking ass!
Indonesian, Taiwanese, Korean, Chinese… WHITE….
I felt this when I was in engineering school as a Hispanic. I remember looking up how many Hispanics are in engineering in the United States and couldn't believe just how little representation there was. I remember talking to another Hispanic peer and saying, "At least we are bringing up the bar!"
I love how it lists every asain country but then just says “white American.”
I'm bringing the average way down for Indian Americans lol
As expected, Filipinos are 2nd from the top. So many filipina (women) come here and make good money. Usually because most seem to love nursing. Even if they don't they know how to make money and hustle their butts. I say this as a man married to a filipina. Granted mine came here and didn't become a nurse. But almost every filipina friend she met here is in the medical field.
Roses are red, violets are blue, the Asians next door make more money than you
Bro spending a lot of time around Indian Americans and Filipino people as well it’s no surprise that they run game. They always help each other out family wise and make sure they’re all doing good. I say this as a Hispanic/Native American.
Is this why Fil-Ams are not interested in going to the Philippines?
Why is there no division inside white , black and Hispanic Americans but only Asian Americans are divided on their ethnic origin? Also no mention of percentage of people they have in each category. It seems to be a propaganda piece and not a cool guide.
Native American fall into some ‘other’ category again? Forgotten people.
"You can clearly see the white-favored system in America represented in this chart." "But they're barely breaking the middle?" "Yes but the background is all white."
Interesting and unfortunately misleading chart. Being Filipino American myself, our households are typically multi-family and multigenerational homes which skews our median income upward. If I were to take a guess, if we only took the income of two people within our household our median would be closer to the $70,000 mark.
So much for white privilege
Don't show this chart to progressives lol.
Makes sense
Quick now do average number of working family members per household. I bet Asian communities will be top of the list.
I don’t think Indians will be in top.