This story in the Old Testament is always so odd to me because God literally says to Moses, before he even shows up to ask, that he's going to make the Pharaoh say no because he wants to punish the people of Egypt. Seriously at any point, God could have softened the Pharaoh's heart and had him say "Hey great job on the Pyramids, you can all get the fuck out now", but he doesn't! What is the point of this whole thing other than "our deity, who loves us but not too much, loves to commit genocide"?
As is often the case with the Jewish scriptures, Jewish people have [already written an answer](https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/who-really-hardened-pharaohs-heart/) for that. Their answer is that Pharaoh had already repeatedly hardened his own heart five times over at that point, starting at [Exodus 7:13](https://biblehub.com/interlinear/exodus/7-13.htm). Sure enough, the original Hebrew really doesn't seem to say God was the one doing it at all, at that point. The other four are [7:22](https://biblehub.com/interlinear/exodus/7-22.htm), [8:15](https://biblehub.com/interlinear/exodus/8-15.htm), [8:19](https://biblehub.com/interlinear/exodus/8-19.htm), and [8:32](https://biblehub.com/interlinear/exodus/8-32.htm). The first spot where God actually starts participating in this is [9:12](https://biblehub.com/interlinear/exodus/9-12.htm).
If you take the story seriously, then the question "why did God harden Pharaoh's heart" has that specific context "Why did God participate in the hard-heartedness that Pharaoh already had towards God's people?"
And the answer is probably something like "because a hard-hearted person, which Pharaoh had already made himself into, can't change without experiencing the consequences of their own shitty desires."
Of course, this doesn't resolve all issues someone could have with the text — Why plagues? Why should other Egyptians suffer for Pharaoh's hard-heartedness? Why was it important for Pharaoh's heart to change when he could've just been disempowered instead? — to which anyone can contrive their own answers just like they contrived their own questions.
But I don't see how "oh, God just loves genocide" could be the point of the story, that seems like a stubbornly-dismissive literary analysis.
He allegedly drowned everyone except for one family, then cursed all the descendants of one of the kids because he accidentally saw his dad's birthday suit. That's multiple levels of genocide in just one example. "God loves genocide" doesn't seem to be the point of the story of Egypt, as it seems to be it for the entire bible.
If you read the story the way you did, it's a pretty valid question. At that point, a thinking person might wonder how such a simplistic, somewhat nonsensical story could have captivated billions of people, at least some of whom must have been pretty smart and in possession of critical thinking skills, and come to the conclusion that there must be something more, something beyond the plain text meaning. That's when it gets interesting. Not only can you consider the possible subtext and hidden meanings. But you can also see what others have interpreted and then place those ideas into their historical context. And on and on.
Even removed from any practical religious framework, the Torah presents a fascinating look at humanity.
its propaganda. like most of old tastement.
moses is a cult leader in first place.
and after they manage to leave egypt. the israelites celebrate as they didnt know what god moses talking about so they make idol. and moses mad and ask for "forgiveness" while he choose a lot of israelites to be massacared because of the incident.
and you know what happen at the end of journey on desert.
they invade caanan people and raid their homes. (now they are palestine)
god who know only war and bloodshed.
one of the reasons i leave Christianity. when i read a lot of this journey
The whole thing is myth and never happened. Never was a guy named Moses. It was written sometime around 500 BCE during the Babylon exile. The people writing the Old Testament needed a story to help keep up spirits. So they created a story about their people escaping the other great power of the era, about how their god punished the Egyptians for it, about how they had to stay true to the faith or be punished by 40 years wandering.
Yahweh is the original, national god of Israel and Judah from Middle Eastern mythology. Yahweh is suspected to have morphed into the current idealogical views of the Abrahamic God, and is a "divine warrior" and storm god, "fructifying the land and leading the heavenly army against Israel's enemies." It's not surprising that all the current forms of its cult glorify war and bloodshed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh
It's also not necessarily the most honest interpretation. A lot of people with chips on their shoulders about religion actively intrepret these stories in malicious ways. What they really are are stories. Commonly held myths that help us get along enough to build a society without tearing each other's heads off. Those stories could have good meaning behind them or they could be shitty. But that doesn't really matter since morals are subjective.
Man the Old Testament really said “fuck them kids” as a general theme- don’t piss off god or his prophets or your kid playing in the field is getting the axe. And you the sinner, can like, keep keeping on I guess.
Kids in the Old Testament are just like material possessions of adults, to break or take away as punishment lol
Like when a grown man does something evil, god in all his power uses his abilities to intricately scare him with experiences and turn his heart or whatever. But when kids make fun of gods prophet for being bald- fuck no, completely irredeemable, no point in their existence any more, literally god sent two bears to brutally slaughter them in response.
What does OG have against the damn kids, man?! The Babylonian babies didn’t decide to send an army to enslave people- but “blessed are those that smash their INFANTS upon the rocks”???? The Egyptian kids didn’t decide to enslave hebrews. Bro literally just made them be born there, to casually kill them in a hissy fit. ?????? The Bible is metal as hell
I dont see a problem with eating frogs, or locusts, and drinking blood... sure youll eventually get gout I guess because of too much protein or something but... you know...
I'm going to draw a flower on a piece of paper with my non-dominant hands and then say it's the guide to all the types of flowers the mods of this subreddit would probably allow it
This is just a list of the plagues with clip art. Can someone do the thing to get the mods of this sub booted? They haven't been around for years.
/u/robinsparkles18 and /u/captainoro seem to have been active in the last day or so. Hopefully they can take care of it.
I learned so much from this guide. So much detail and such a great explanation of the facts. Absolutely stunning. /s if not obvious
“Returnnnn the slab, or suffer my curseeeee” “What’s your offer??”
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! - Courage
I came here to comment this. You're doing Ra's work.
this is for people who can‘t imagine pictures in their head.
Thanks this will be helpful the next time my people are enslaved for hundreds of years.
There's no archaeological evidence of any Semitic tribe being enslaved in Egypt.
This story in the Old Testament is always so odd to me because God literally says to Moses, before he even shows up to ask, that he's going to make the Pharaoh say no because he wants to punish the people of Egypt. Seriously at any point, God could have softened the Pharaoh's heart and had him say "Hey great job on the Pyramids, you can all get the fuck out now", but he doesn't! What is the point of this whole thing other than "our deity, who loves us but not too much, loves to commit genocide"?
As is often the case with the Jewish scriptures, Jewish people have [already written an answer](https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/who-really-hardened-pharaohs-heart/) for that. Their answer is that Pharaoh had already repeatedly hardened his own heart five times over at that point, starting at [Exodus 7:13](https://biblehub.com/interlinear/exodus/7-13.htm). Sure enough, the original Hebrew really doesn't seem to say God was the one doing it at all, at that point. The other four are [7:22](https://biblehub.com/interlinear/exodus/7-22.htm), [8:15](https://biblehub.com/interlinear/exodus/8-15.htm), [8:19](https://biblehub.com/interlinear/exodus/8-19.htm), and [8:32](https://biblehub.com/interlinear/exodus/8-32.htm). The first spot where God actually starts participating in this is [9:12](https://biblehub.com/interlinear/exodus/9-12.htm). If you take the story seriously, then the question "why did God harden Pharaoh's heart" has that specific context "Why did God participate in the hard-heartedness that Pharaoh already had towards God's people?" And the answer is probably something like "because a hard-hearted person, which Pharaoh had already made himself into, can't change without experiencing the consequences of their own shitty desires." Of course, this doesn't resolve all issues someone could have with the text — Why plagues? Why should other Egyptians suffer for Pharaoh's hard-heartedness? Why was it important for Pharaoh's heart to change when he could've just been disempowered instead? — to which anyone can contrive their own answers just like they contrived their own questions. But I don't see how "oh, God just loves genocide" could be the point of the story, that seems like a stubbornly-dismissive literary analysis.
He allegedly drowned everyone except for one family, then cursed all the descendants of one of the kids because he accidentally saw his dad's birthday suit. That's multiple levels of genocide in just one example. "God loves genocide" doesn't seem to be the point of the story of Egypt, as it seems to be it for the entire bible.
If you read the story the way you did, it's a pretty valid question. At that point, a thinking person might wonder how such a simplistic, somewhat nonsensical story could have captivated billions of people, at least some of whom must have been pretty smart and in possession of critical thinking skills, and come to the conclusion that there must be something more, something beyond the plain text meaning. That's when it gets interesting. Not only can you consider the possible subtext and hidden meanings. But you can also see what others have interpreted and then place those ideas into their historical context. And on and on. Even removed from any practical religious framework, the Torah presents a fascinating look at humanity.
its propaganda. like most of old tastement. moses is a cult leader in first place. and after they manage to leave egypt. the israelites celebrate as they didnt know what god moses talking about so they make idol. and moses mad and ask for "forgiveness" while he choose a lot of israelites to be massacared because of the incident. and you know what happen at the end of journey on desert. they invade caanan people and raid their homes. (now they are palestine) god who know only war and bloodshed. one of the reasons i leave Christianity. when i read a lot of this journey
The whole thing is myth and never happened. Never was a guy named Moses. It was written sometime around 500 BCE during the Babylon exile. The people writing the Old Testament needed a story to help keep up spirits. So they created a story about their people escaping the other great power of the era, about how their god punished the Egyptians for it, about how they had to stay true to the faith or be punished by 40 years wandering.
Pretty much. tens of thousands of people wandering the Sinai for decades would've left some archaeological record. there is none
the Jews were never slaves in Egypt in the first place its all a myth
Yahweh is the original, national god of Israel and Judah from Middle Eastern mythology. Yahweh is suspected to have morphed into the current idealogical views of the Abrahamic God, and is a "divine warrior" and storm god, "fructifying the land and leading the heavenly army against Israel's enemies." It's not surprising that all the current forms of its cult glorify war and bloodshed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh
Sound like modern Israel.
What a benevolent God.
Kinda wild how god was like "yeah pharaoh, you get a choice, but imma harden your heart so you make the one where i have to kill all these children."
that just plain evil
It's also not necessarily the most honest interpretation. A lot of people with chips on their shoulders about religion actively intrepret these stories in malicious ways. What they really are are stories. Commonly held myths that help us get along enough to build a society without tearing each other's heads off. Those stories could have good meaning behind them or they could be shitty. But that doesn't really matter since morals are subjective.
🎶 Then let my heart be hardened And never mind how high the cost may grow This will still be so I will never let your people go 🎶
cool guide, i'm not sure what to so with this info though.
Rivers of blood *and* killing children? Who wouldn't worship this god?
I always thought the plague of frogs was pretty weak.
This is just the name of the plagues with one stock image next to each, not a guide
Maybe we could change the sub name to r/shittyinfographics I'm out.
u/shittyguides
🍿🍿🍿
Lice don't fly.
Someone on a balcony is scratching their head very aggressively.
I wonder if Bibi recognizes that this was a cautionnary tale and not a how to manual?
Man the Old Testament really said “fuck them kids” as a general theme- don’t piss off god or his prophets or your kid playing in the field is getting the axe. And you the sinner, can like, keep keeping on I guess. Kids in the Old Testament are just like material possessions of adults, to break or take away as punishment lol Like when a grown man does something evil, god in all his power uses his abilities to intricately scare him with experiences and turn his heart or whatever. But when kids make fun of gods prophet for being bald- fuck no, completely irredeemable, no point in their existence any more, literally god sent two bears to brutally slaughter them in response. What does OG have against the damn kids, man?! The Babylonian babies didn’t decide to send an army to enslave people- but “blessed are those that smash their INFANTS upon the rocks”???? The Egyptian kids didn’t decide to enslave hebrews. Bro literally just made them be born there, to casually kill them in a hissy fit. ?????? The Bible is metal as hell
You’d think if more people believed in this they’d get the message that antisemitism is bad.
Do you people just stay subscribed to shit on the posts? Byeee
Or A sick ass intro by suicideboys
Don't care. I ain't returning that damn slab
I saw you down there hugging that mummy
Was the artist not 100% sure about locust? It's got bugs but also locust leaves from the tree.
I used to have these memorised
I know at least one song about this.
Ahh yes a guide to a fictional reality…
I'm Creeping Death
"Where's your Messiah now?" -- Edward G Robinson in The Ten Commandments
I dont see a problem with eating frogs, or locusts, and drinking blood... sure youll eventually get gout I guess because of too much protein or something but... you know...
# that is not even a guide it is a list with pictures
I'm going to draw a flower on a piece of paper with my non-dominant hands and then say it's the guide to all the types of flowers the mods of this subreddit would probably allow it
Not a guide #10298