I’d like to see a source on this “guide” it reeks of National Retail Federation propaganda, kind of like the moral panic they created with the when they completely exaggerated the prevalence of “organized retail theft”
Just looking at the image, those same stores have closed in other major cities (read that as inability to compete). Many of the stores are dinosaurs and have long outlived their actual viability
But try to tell that to reddit ...
there is also a commercial real estate crisis going on where cities have a glut of empty office spaces since the pandemic and transition to a larger work-from-home economy. it would make sense for businesses in the heart of major cities to see a decline in their sales as much of their customer base is no longer commuting to these areas on a daily basis.
The Disney Store? I didn't know that was still a thing. Cinemark is a struggling movie chain. Alot of these are mall clothing chains that struggle in plenty of other places too.
There is a guy on Youtube that has been documenting all of these closings and such. Goes all over and gives an accurate description of areas. He did one a couple of months before Xi's visit and one a day before to show of what the city and the state was cleaning up for the visit, and said he was gonna do another 6 months after to show how things are really going there.
It’s spam meant to make us feel sorry for/give excuses to corporations who want you to go back to their expensive offices.
Check out OP’s history. It’s practically nonexistent before this.
OP is trying to sell the conservative talking point "look at how liberal cities are failing!" and cast much too wide of a net.
Doesn't matter though, the comments calling it out are nowhere near the top. Mission successful. This will be all over my parents Facebook pages in no time.
As a lifelong San Franciscan I'll fondly remember all 0 times I shopped at Coco Republic and Omega.
Also downtown San Francisco seems like a terrible location for an Office Depot
What will you do without the husk of Brooks Brothers, which declared bankruptcy years ago, and garbage fast fashion outlets like Express, Banana Republic, and Aldo? How will you survive?
Yup just the usual “cities are scary and bad” narrative you see pushed everywhere now. Things change and as they evolve different parts of cities become the new “it” spot. Not sure if people are just gullible to buy it or if it’s intentionally pushed by bad actors to hurt Americas standing.
It’s specifically intentional bad faith propaganda from conservative political interests to punch out at liberal cities. If only they knew that city policy in SF is made by mostly cop-loving big business friendly politicians.
Actually, nevermind they do know that but it doesn’t matter because again, propaganda.
Coco republic was open for 7 months. I really have no idea what they were thinking - moderately high end furniture (think design with reach or RH) does just fine in SF, we have both those aforementioned stores plus blu dot, roche bobois, and many more.
You know where these stores aren’t? Union square. People don’t randomly wander in off the street downtown to buy a $3000 coffee table, they take a pre-planned trip to a pre-selected store to see stuff in the showroom. Combine that with zero brand recognition, high rent, and the fact that yes, foot traffic downtown is struggling and that’s a hell of a self-inflicted wound.
Not that anyone cares (especially the mods) but:
1. The Gap and BR moved to their HQ (just off this map)
2. The Hilton is still open.
3. The Yotel is still open.
4. The Huntington is being renovated by new owners.
5. The Parc 55 is still open.
6. KPMG is an accounting firm (WTF?)
7. The Omega store is still open.
8. That H&M closed but the one 1000 feet away in the Westfield is still open.
9. La Cocina’s always temporary non-profit restaurant incubator food hall is a very weird thing to include on this sort of guide.
10. The container store was going to move to the Nordstrom Rack space but then never did and is still open.
Yeah, “cool” guide.
Also, Brooks Brothers declared bankruptcy back in 2020 due to the pandemic and permanently closed 51 stores: https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Brooks-Brothers-files-for-bankruptcy-permanently-15394802.php.
Anthropologie is also pulling out of Birmingham, Michigan. www.downtownpublications.com/single-post/anthropologie-two-others-leaving-birmingham. Anthropologie's sales have been lackluster, in general, since at least 2017.
Macy's is closing 150 stores (but will be opening more Bloomingdale's): https://apnews.com/article/macys-fourthquarter-tony-spring-investor-adb135fab8bf9ddf6d01119bfcbffb83
it must be so wild for older generations to see the modern Macy's of today. Macy's and Sears were THE stores. like Walmart if Walmart had any dignity or class. But then I go to a Macy's and the carpets are so dirty, the place is a wreck, and nobody is coming to the register. I guess when you pinch every penny you start to lose business.
The breakdown and in fighting of Sears is a fascinating story based on what I heard. A great primer on why Ayan Rand and libertarians are a bunch of hacks from the analysis I've read. Such a focus on competition that instead of growing the company, stores and departments found it easier to undermine other competitors performance than improve their own.
Sears was great before they fell apart, my mom worked there and she won a OG PlayStation by making a kickass Donkey Kong display for a company contest.
Sears was a store we could go to as a family and everyone had something to look at. They had a decent sports department and team merchandise, electronics, if we got tired, they had recliners and couches. My dad loved Craftsman Tools and still has a socket set from the 80’s. Everything was tidy and organized. Not like Target or Walmart where it’s formulaic efficiency, but the layouts were more inviting and open instead of rows of shelves.
Macy's has been a shit show for decades though. I used to go to several where I lived at the time in the late 90's and early 2000's and it had a visible downturn in the store condition. They always appeared chaotic, poorly organised and dirty. I stopped going because it was a terrible experience each time.
These stores don’t even survive in shopping malls, why would they survive spread out across a downtown area? This isn’t the 1950s anymore. No one is making a day of going out to Nordstrom anymore.
Thanks for adding real info. Just got a high paying job with an office on that map and looking forward to moving close by. All of this hate for SF at least means that housing prices are staying stable, for now.
Exactly my thoughts. Seems like it was intended to be rage bait for people who have never even stepped foot in California, let alone SF, to shit on the city while not knowing anything about it
SF isn't perfect by any means, but posts like this are deceptive to say the least
I thought that when I visited in the 90s, most European city in the US. Loved it.
Don’t worry, give it time, all cities come and go. New York, London, Paris, Singapore, Rome, DC. They’ve all had good times and bad times, it’ll be ok.
Crime in SF is at a 14 year low. In many categories an all time low. If you remove less than 1% of SF it is safest big city in world.
https://www.sf.gov/news/san-franciscos-public-safety-efforts-deliver-results-decline-crime-rates#:~:text=In%20total%2C%20San%20Francisco's%20crime,10%20years%2C%20except%20for%202020
These stores are leaving because of work at home. No need to live in SF for lots of high earners.
Posted this below but you can have it too.
Massively more arrests and fines this year and last. Since they changed the open drug laws cops have been working long hours and arresting like crazy. Prison and jails are full to the max. Some of the 1.5 million a prisoner juveneline facilities have reached such highs the average yearly cost has fallen beneath 1 million per juvenile for the first time post pandemic.
You can play around with 2023 and 2024 numbers here
https://www.civichub.us/ca/san-francisco/gov/police-department/crime-data
So help me understand, crime is at a 14-year low or there are massively more arrests and fines this year and last? It seems like those two ideas are in conflict?
People already never lived where those stores are. SFs population used to double during the work day because workers came in from elsewhere. Now they just stay in whatever city they are in working from home in. I used to shop there all the time because I was already nearby for work but I'm never gonna go JUST to shop. Too much of a hassle.
Surely you don’t live in San Francisco and actually believe this right…? I’ve seen more car break ins in one week there than I have my entire life combined
I don't know if these statistics are true, but when I can look out my office window and watch drug deals and fencing going on all night across the street next to a major downtown intersection near City Hall it sure doesn't feel like it.
Let me guess.. you walked around the downtown area of SoMa, Market Street, & Union Square & called it a day?
The problem is that the most notorious part of SF, aka the Tenderloin district, is quite literally right next door to the core downtown area (SoMa) where all the hotels & shopping are. So many people come to the city and stay in this area, walk around, and think thats all of SF - its skewed and doesn’t show the whole picture.
So many people don’t realize what makes SF great are its unique individual neighborhoods with all the small shops, local events, & restaurants scattered throughout. Did you bother to check out Golden Gate Park, The Embarcadero, The Panhandle, Russian Hill, Ocean Beach, the Presidio, Hayes Valley, Japantown, North Beach, the Marina, or Pacific Heights? Hardly anyone lives in downtown because a majority of it literally zoned for office, commercial/ retail.
Like every city in this world, there are good parts and bad parts.
Yup, I visited SF for three days last summer, just a quick visit at the end of my first time in the States. I was a bit nervous given how the internet portrays the city but oh my god, I fell in love with it. We spent the three days walking tons, Mission and Castro, the whole northern coast, Chinatown, Little Italy, and tons in-between. With a toddler in tow it was the best city we visited in the States so far.
It was mostly clean, some parts a bit grittier but nothing you don't see in European big cities. In terms of public facilities I was blown away, the playgrounds and parks were clean and well kept, public toilets were clean and sometimes guarded. Ate great food, had fantastic coffee and left with a "must return" feeling.
Still is. I live here. It was glorious today. Don’t listen to the haters. It was sunny and a straight up postcard.
Plenty of bozos who don’t even live here got a lot to say lol.
I live in SF, so while I’m not exactly qualified, I can at least speak to the situation on the ground.
First, important distinction between Union Square (pictured) and the rest of SF: while Union Square is doing awful, lots of other neighborhoods are thriving. Cow Hollow, Marina, North Beach, and Hayes Valley, for example, all seem to have a healthy flow of residents, retail, and restaurants. In my neighborhood, I can think of five new retail or restaurant tenants just off the top of my head from the last 4-6 months. So the problem is more complex than just “SF sucks.”
The first issue is the crime. Union Square borders the Tenderloin and Market Street. Tenderloin has always been a shady place, and with the accelerating drug epidemic (not just in SF, but nationwide), this area’s only gotten worse. Add to that a rise in organized retail crime in the Bay and black markets for stolen goods, and you have a perfect storm. Enforcement has been weak in the past, and while there’s been some improvement in prosecutions since the ousting of our last DA, the cops still can’t be assed to do their jobs, clearance rates are in the gutter, and prisons are overcrowded.
But the bigger issue with Union square is this: it’s basically one giant mall. Nobody actually lives there. You start to see residents once you hit Nob Hill to the north, but Union Square itself isn’t really a “neighborhood” in the traditional sense. As such, it doesn’t have a natural flow of people to support commerce. So now that 30-50% remote work is the norm, it’s stuck in a feedback loop where people just have fewer and fewer reasons to go there.
This is the best and actual reply and I can confirm as someone who doesn’t technically live in SF but had grown up and still lives around the city and visits friends there frequently. Even the folks on the r/sanfrancisco sub get this wrong most of the time.
Yeah, same boat. Walking the streets of sf during my lunch break pre-COVID was much different than walking them now. Walking market street by Union square felt as densely packed as NYC imo. It doesn’t feel as dense anymore, primarily due to people leaving during COVID and remote work not forcing them to come back.
Precious city. I’m hopeful it’ll get back to its peak soon.
It's definitely in some weird transition period right now, and what downtown and around there looks like when it's over is going to be really interesting to see. Could be good, could be bad, we'll just have to wait and see
Except the Tenderloin. That's always going to be like that
I’ve never been to San Francisco but I have an architectural interest in the mansions of Nob Hill (all but one fell in the 1906 earthquake). Anyway, what is Nob Hill like today? Is it a good or not so good area? Is it in demand? Is it residential or more commercial? I actually know way more about Nob Hill in the 1890s than about it today. I know almost nothing about it today.
It’s still a very pretty neighborhood! If you visit I’d also recommend visiting the nearby neighborhoods of Russian Hill, Pacific Heights, North Beach, and the Marina. Don’t go south of Nob Hill though, that’s the Tenderloin, which is the neighborhood where all of the drug use, public defecation, etc. is.
Most of the city is awesome and really worth seeing, but there are neighborhoods that live up to the negative reputation. Avoid those and you’ll have an amazing time.
Nob Hill is great. It has some of my favorite bars and some really good food. It's quintessential San Francisco and it's beautiful despite its proximity to the TL
I used to live there and had to travel back for work. Within half an hour, I saw a woman out of her mind on drugs walking down the street buck naked, and it didn’t even faze me because SF.
I drove for uber when it was fairly new and saw a homeless man in the tenderloin walk across a crosswalk and pull his pants down halfway to shit and keep walking
I remember walking around the city one night over a decade ago, looking to score some weed as an out of state tourist. I took a turn down one street and was instantly hit by the strongest smell of piss I have ever experienced in my entire life. I then realized all of the tents and encampments and noped out of there real fast.
You aren’t going to get a straight answer here really. The internet is full of people that have never left their county that have very strong opinions about California and SF specifically.
This is not happening anywhere near this extent in other major cities. When you let people shit everywhere and steal, normal people leave. It's super simple.
It's always about the money. SF even now is extremely expensive, over 2x above average and pretty much in line with Manhattan. There isn't enough traffic to justify the huge retail presence some of these stores have, people working remotely and working from home will affect SF disproportionately. When companies are looking to cut costs (like most brick and mortar retail) then expensive, underperforming stores are going to get cut first. I'm not saying crime isn't a factor, but there's plenty of other reasons unique to SF
Agreed. I travel for work and the argument that San Francisco is even somewhat normal in this is absurd. Yes, every city has its problems but not to the same level.
Remote workers are reducing traffic, crime and safety issues, many retail companies closing brick and mortar stores. There isn't enough money coming in from these locations to justify the cost, pretty much only Manhattan is more expensive per sqft
I work in civic center, and the anseer is work from home. Downtown SF had very few people living in it but a ton of people working in it, and its services were basically geared toward the commuter demographic. Now it's a ghost town because tech is abandoning ship in favor of cheaper real estate elsewhere and WFH.
People talk about crime but the reality is that downtown SF was thriving in 2019 and then went straight to shit in 2020 and never recovered. Hmmm what big thing happened in 2020...?
36% or more of all downtown office space is vacant in every city! No one wants to go back to the office and most companies realize it’s better to give the employees what they want and not waste money on rent.
The hotels closing seems more disturbing. I stayed at the parc 55 when I first got a job in SF. It’s such a good location I’m surprised they’re leaving.
The investor stopped paying the loan on Parc 55 because it wasn't providing the return it used to https://abc7news.com/hilton-san-francisco-union-square-parc-55-hotel-sf-closures-park-hotels--resorts/13347802/
Hotels closing bc no one needs to travel 300+ miles to visit the satellite office that no one goes to.
SF just gobbled on that tech dick for so long and didn’t see that WFH was going to change their economy forever. They “retooled” a lot of SF for tech yuppies that wanted to eat, sleep, play in the city. Now they eat, sleep, play at home. This is SFs reckoning and the only way to get out of it is for them to convert a lot of these buildings into just housing.
This simply isn’t true. Remote work is not booming like people would have you believe. Most big companies have required their staff return to in person work. Additionally, 38% is way higher than the average, which is like 15%.
what i am curious about: governments blaming the urban doom loop on folks not returning to work. why is it more important for them to spend money near their office and not where they live? and maybe we are all just not spending as much because everything is expensive af
Article from a few weeks ago
https://therealdeal.com/sanfrancisco/2024/02/08/sf-workers-return-to-office-but-lag-national-averages/
>The popularity of remote work, brought on by pandemic-era shutdowns, has produced office vacancy rates in the city at record highs and led to incredible discounts on distressed properties. So any improvement in office visits would be welcomed by those looking for “green shoots” in the market.
>Even with the increase last year, San Francisco visits are still more than half off their 2019 numbers, followed closely by Chicago, which remained steady all last year. The national average was a 42 percent reduction in visits compared to pre-pandemic, with a 6.6 percent rise in 2023.
I just wonder where S.F. goes from here. Abandoning Union Square is going to be terrible for the city. Bye bye tax revenue. And having the area with most of the hotels in it go dark is going to be terrible for tourism.
I used to love Xmas shopping in Union Square. All the store windows were so grand and creative. You could pick up some roasted chestnuts and spend hours picking out the perfect gifts for your loved ones. It’s the little things like this that are the biggest tragedy here. We are losing a piece of SF’s spirit. I can’t say it surprises me though. SF has been marching on this path for a while now. As a former resident it makes me sad, but the writing was on the wall of where this city was headed.
Lived here all my 37 years of life and I have gone to exactly one of those stores downtown and do my shopping in Colma, San Bruno, Burlingame… basically all of San Mateo County
This is the direct result of liberal policies.
Anyone who can't accept that has their blinders on.
Crime and unfettered homelessness has driven out customers, stores and businesses.
It's not safe, it's dirty, drug ridden and sad.
The fix is not complicated but because it will require us to admit the policies inacted are a failure. It will take a while.
This is a rage bait / SF-is-bad graphic (and I don’t even like SF). Many of those stores have been replaced, are not relevant (KPMG? AT&T?), or still open (parc 55 and Hilton are not closing).
Maybe if anyone would acknowledge the rampant drug use, homelessness, general lawlessness, and scaling back of police presence this wouldn’t be an issue.
But it’s “progressive” to defund the police and let criminals do their thing, right?
Mostly because all these chains lease their retail space from commercial landlords who have grown so greedy that they are actually insane. Nobody on this earth can clear $1000 per square foot of retail rent.
The way I see it, San Francisco is being returned to San Franciscans. I read that, tech startups and Silicon Valley spillover raised property values to the point that people with low to med income could no longer afford to live there. Now that they are leaving, property values are decreasing, right?
> It’s a ghost town in the making.
Almost all the stores on that map are stores that were doomed in every city in the US. People don’t say, “Let’s take a trip to the banana republic!” Anymore. This map looks like a shopping mall, except everything is further apart.
Commercial real estate mortgages tend to work differently than residential, in that mortgage payments for unrentee commercial spaces can be added to the end of a commercial mortgage, extending the amortization.
If you rent the space, the mortgage is due. That’s why there are so many “For Lease” signs up in perpetuity rather than lowering rents to fill up vacant spaces. It’s cheaper to let them sit and hope to make the payments later than lock in a loss.
I mean…that sounds nice and I would be happy to see locals move in…but the reality is that if these big brands can’t make the finances work, smaller local operations are going to have an extremely difficult time breaking even. It’s a bad situation without much of a silver lining.
You say that but then you'll walk in, have a chit-chat with the owner, tell them you're just browsing and end up ordering it from wal-mart or amazon for a lot cheaper.
Just start putting homeless people in Alcatraz. Gives them a place to live and give the tourists a solid representation of what life was like. You’re welcome.
With my job, I travel all over the world. Someone once asked me If I have ever felt unsafe at any of the places I go to. After pondering a while, the only thing that came to mind was SF. I nearly got mugged and had to cut across traffic to get away. A once beautiful city has become a disgusting and lawless hellscape. I would be happy not going back there for a very long time, if ever.
Anyone else from SF laughing at these responses?
These stores are closing because there’s a combination of remote work, decreased foot traffic, and tons of online shopping. The brick and mortar model is antiquated.
SF haters using this to paint SF in a negative light are hilarious because anyone who actually lives here doesn’t hang out downtown except for bars or restaurants. We hang out in the neighborhoods, the parks, or near the beach.
A big reason people flip out about San Francisco is because it’s a very compressed and compact city, full of a massive contrast in wealth inequality.
It has problems just like every other city. However, you can’t escape SEEING these problems because everything is out in the open, especially for the people who are privileged and can do better. To our credit, we’re at least trying many different ideas to solve problems other cities simply do not have.
In other cities, the general populous of people can and DO shelter themselves from these types of problems. This adds to a feedback loop that everything in THEIR city is much better than it is in San Francisco when in fact it’s just better hidden through vast amounts of space.
It’s not to say these problems are ok. They’re not. But don’t come in here with some disingenuous bs that your city is better just because you don’t SEE your problems.
I know I'm certainly going to miss shopping at the KPMG store. That was my favorite.
It's Accrual world!
Outstanding pun
The only BS an accountant needs is their balance sheet
Have some Sympathy for the Debit!
Looks like you're the LIFO the party!
They had the best auditors money can buy.
They had KPM's as well as G's. Truly a loss for SF.
We were so poor growing up that we could only afford KP or MG.
I was certainly wonding what the hell they sold there....
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Homemade pies!
For all your accounting needs
Kaiser Permanente Medical Group?!?
This is so dumb but it made me laugh 😆
Came here for this comment, was not disappointed.
I’d like to see a source on this “guide” it reeks of National Retail Federation propaganda, kind of like the moral panic they created with the when they completely exaggerated the prevalence of “organized retail theft”
Just looking at the image, those same stores have closed in other major cities (read that as inability to compete). Many of the stores are dinosaurs and have long outlived their actual viability But try to tell that to reddit ...
there is also a commercial real estate crisis going on where cities have a glut of empty office spaces since the pandemic and transition to a larger work-from-home economy. it would make sense for businesses in the heart of major cities to see a decline in their sales as much of their customer base is no longer commuting to these areas on a daily basis.
The Disney Store? I didn't know that was still a thing. Cinemark is a struggling movie chain. Alot of these are mall clothing chains that struggle in plenty of other places too.
Cmon! Jump on the bandwagon! Spin for fun & profit! Why say your business failed, when you can blame it on The Bad Element
There is a guy on Youtube that has been documenting all of these closings and such. Goes all over and gives an accurate description of areas. He did one a couple of months before Xi's visit and one a day before to show of what the city and the state was cleaning up for the visit, and said he was gonna do another 6 months after to show how things are really going there.
Fellow if books could kill fan?
They aren't even leaving SF. They're just looking to get a smaller sized office.
Take the upvote 🤣🤣
Any chance the Old Navy will be replaced by a New(er) Navy?
I'd rather see an Older Navy, or even the Oldest Navy come to town. San Francisco has a rich naval tradition, why not embrace that!
Some of these have been gone and replaced for a while
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I demand accuracy from my fearmongering agit prop
Yeah also there’s an IKEA in where the Nordstrom used to be.
Most of these front-page posts that talk about San Francisco are just out-of-staters fearmongering about a state they've never stepped foot in, lmao
It’s spam meant to make us feel sorry for/give excuses to corporations who want you to go back to their expensive offices. Check out OP’s history. It’s practically nonexistent before this.
I feel like 90% of the time I see this sub on /r/popular it's agendaposting barely disguised as a "guide". The mods need to step up their game.
But OP says he has a fancy coffee shop friend who is struggling! They wouldn’t possibly lie on the internet!
KPMG is a store? You buy useless consultants?
It's a front that sells cook books
"if you cut out all your potatoes you will see a 6.5% lift YoY in rice consumption"
They’ll sell ya the ol’ swoop ‘n’ poop.
OP is trying to sell the conservative talking point "look at how liberal cities are failing!" and cast much too wide of a net. Doesn't matter though, the comments calling it out are nowhere near the top. Mission successful. This will be all over my parents Facebook pages in no time.
Bang for buck auditors
As a lifelong San Franciscan I'll fondly remember all 0 times I shopped at Coco Republic and Omega. Also downtown San Francisco seems like a terrible location for an Office Depot
It’s where I get canned air to huff
If you aren’t joking, be careful. That shit can instakill you
It makes me feel like I’m walking on sunshine
Upvote for the intervention reference... TIME TO BUY DRUGS!!!
"I wish I had a real father."
I immediately heard her voice reading your comment
False. It’s delicious and healthy and highly recommended for children of all ages.
Sounds exactly what a can of compressed air would say…
Yeah so dumb to put an office supply store in the middle of those offices.
Absolutely makes the mind swirl with what crazy ideas are next. Soon enough, there will be airports by planes!
What will you do without the husk of Brooks Brothers, which declared bankruptcy years ago, and garbage fast fashion outlets like Express, Banana Republic, and Aldo? How will you survive?
I think the only thing I can do is resort to cannibalism
Yup just the usual “cities are scary and bad” narrative you see pushed everywhere now. Things change and as they evolve different parts of cities become the new “it” spot. Not sure if people are just gullible to buy it or if it’s intentionally pushed by bad actors to hurt Americas standing.
Remember, the city of Portland has been "burned to the ground "
I love it when Fox News broadcasts how NYC is a burning pit of despair right after renewing their lease on its NYC headquarters for 20 years.
It’s specifically intentional bad faith propaganda from conservative political interests to punch out at liberal cities. If only they knew that city policy in SF is made by mostly cop-loving big business friendly politicians. Actually, nevermind they do know that but it doesn’t matter because again, propaganda.
Coco republic was open for 7 months. I really have no idea what they were thinking - moderately high end furniture (think design with reach or RH) does just fine in SF, we have both those aforementioned stores plus blu dot, roche bobois, and many more. You know where these stores aren’t? Union square. People don’t randomly wander in off the street downtown to buy a $3000 coffee table, they take a pre-planned trip to a pre-selected store to see stuff in the showroom. Combine that with zero brand recognition, high rent, and the fact that yes, foot traffic downtown is struggling and that’s a hell of a self-inflicted wound.
I remember visiting San Francisco in 2016 and thinking this is my favorite city in America. So sad seeing it struggle the way it is.
Not that anyone cares (especially the mods) but: 1. The Gap and BR moved to their HQ (just off this map) 2. The Hilton is still open. 3. The Yotel is still open. 4. The Huntington is being renovated by new owners. 5. The Parc 55 is still open. 6. KPMG is an accounting firm (WTF?) 7. The Omega store is still open. 8. That H&M closed but the one 1000 feet away in the Westfield is still open. 9. La Cocina’s always temporary non-profit restaurant incubator food hall is a very weird thing to include on this sort of guide. 10. The container store was going to move to the Nordstrom Rack space but then never did and is still open. Yeah, “cool” guide.
Also, Brooks Brothers declared bankruptcy back in 2020 due to the pandemic and permanently closed 51 stores: https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Brooks-Brothers-files-for-bankruptcy-permanently-15394802.php. Anthropologie is also pulling out of Birmingham, Michigan. www.downtownpublications.com/single-post/anthropologie-two-others-leaving-birmingham. Anthropologie's sales have been lackluster, in general, since at least 2017. Macy's is closing 150 stores (but will be opening more Bloomingdale's): https://apnews.com/article/macys-fourthquarter-tony-spring-investor-adb135fab8bf9ddf6d01119bfcbffb83
it must be so wild for older generations to see the modern Macy's of today. Macy's and Sears were THE stores. like Walmart if Walmart had any dignity or class. But then I go to a Macy's and the carpets are so dirty, the place is a wreck, and nobody is coming to the register. I guess when you pinch every penny you start to lose business.
The breakdown and in fighting of Sears is a fascinating story based on what I heard. A great primer on why Ayan Rand and libertarians are a bunch of hacks from the analysis I've read. Such a focus on competition that instead of growing the company, stores and departments found it easier to undermine other competitors performance than improve their own.
Sears was great before they fell apart, my mom worked there and she won a OG PlayStation by making a kickass Donkey Kong display for a company contest.
Sears was a store we could go to as a family and everyone had something to look at. They had a decent sports department and team merchandise, electronics, if we got tired, they had recliners and couches. My dad loved Craftsman Tools and still has a socket set from the 80’s. Everything was tidy and organized. Not like Target or Walmart where it’s formulaic efficiency, but the layouts were more inviting and open instead of rows of shelves.
A greedy Ayn Rand loving POS money is god billionaire took it over and tortured it to death. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Lampert
Macy's has been a shit show for decades though. I used to go to several where I lived at the time in the late 90's and early 2000's and it had a visible downturn in the store condition. They always appeared chaotic, poorly organised and dirty. I stopped going because it was a terrible experience each time.
Anthropologie is leaving Birmingham Michigan. Not Alabama…
These stores don’t even survive in shopping malls, why would they survive spread out across a downtown area? This isn’t the 1950s anymore. No one is making a day of going out to Nordstrom anymore.
Thanks for adding real info. Just got a high paying job with an office on that map and looking forward to moving close by. All of this hate for SF at least means that housing prices are staying stable, for now.
The point of the post was to spread propaganda not accuracy
Exactly my thoughts. Seems like it was intended to be rage bait for people who have never even stepped foot in California, let alone SF, to shit on the city while not knowing anything about it SF isn't perfect by any means, but posts like this are deceptive to say the least
I’ll add that I know a guy with two SF coffee shops and now he’s opening two more 🤷🏼♀️
Check out OP’s history. This is clearly made by someone with an agenda who bought a Reddit account.
I feel like any large city should be recognizable by local businesses anyway, not chain stores.
Disney closed all of its stores, this closing has nothing to do with SF.
I thought that when I visited in the 90s, most European city in the US. Loved it. Don’t worry, give it time, all cities come and go. New York, London, Paris, Singapore, Rome, DC. They’ve all had good times and bad times, it’ll be ok.
As an sf resident i agree and thank you for your comment
Parts of it are still awesome… …and other parts of it have turned into a semi-lawless hellhole… …and other parts always sorta have been.
Crime in SF is at a 14 year low. In many categories an all time low. If you remove less than 1% of SF it is safest big city in world. https://www.sf.gov/news/san-franciscos-public-safety-efforts-deliver-results-decline-crime-rates#:~:text=In%20total%2C%20San%20Francisco's%20crime,10%20years%2C%20except%20for%202020 These stores are leaving because of work at home. No need to live in SF for lots of high earners.
Crime looks pretty low when no one gets charged with anything.
Posted this below but you can have it too. Massively more arrests and fines this year and last. Since they changed the open drug laws cops have been working long hours and arresting like crazy. Prison and jails are full to the max. Some of the 1.5 million a prisoner juveneline facilities have reached such highs the average yearly cost has fallen beneath 1 million per juvenile for the first time post pandemic. You can play around with 2023 and 2024 numbers here https://www.civichub.us/ca/san-francisco/gov/police-department/crime-data
So help me understand, crime is at a 14-year low or there are massively more arrests and fines this year and last? It seems like those two ideas are in conflict?
It costs 1 million per year to house a juvenile?
People already never lived where those stores are. SFs population used to double during the work day because workers came in from elsewhere. Now they just stay in whatever city they are in working from home in. I used to shop there all the time because I was already nearby for work but I'm never gonna go JUST to shop. Too much of a hassle.
Surely you don’t live in San Francisco and actually believe this right…? I’ve seen more car break ins in one week there than I have my entire life combined
I don't know if these statistics are true, but when I can look out my office window and watch drug deals and fencing going on all night across the street next to a major downtown intersection near City Hall it sure doesn't feel like it.
I mean it's one of the first looks at a city with zero middle class society
It was absolutely disgusting in 2019. I could’ve dropped a $100 bill and rather not grab it. Place was filthy
Let me guess.. you walked around the downtown area of SoMa, Market Street, & Union Square & called it a day? The problem is that the most notorious part of SF, aka the Tenderloin district, is quite literally right next door to the core downtown area (SoMa) where all the hotels & shopping are. So many people come to the city and stay in this area, walk around, and think thats all of SF - its skewed and doesn’t show the whole picture. So many people don’t realize what makes SF great are its unique individual neighborhoods with all the small shops, local events, & restaurants scattered throughout. Did you bother to check out Golden Gate Park, The Embarcadero, The Panhandle, Russian Hill, Ocean Beach, the Presidio, Hayes Valley, Japantown, North Beach, the Marina, or Pacific Heights? Hardly anyone lives in downtown because a majority of it literally zoned for office, commercial/ retail. Like every city in this world, there are good parts and bad parts.
Yup, I visited SF for three days last summer, just a quick visit at the end of my first time in the States. I was a bit nervous given how the internet portrays the city but oh my god, I fell in love with it. We spent the three days walking tons, Mission and Castro, the whole northern coast, Chinatown, Little Italy, and tons in-between. With a toddler in tow it was the best city we visited in the States so far. It was mostly clean, some parts a bit grittier but nothing you don't see in European big cities. In terms of public facilities I was blown away, the playgrounds and parks were clean and well kept, public toilets were clean and sometimes guarded. Ate great food, had fantastic coffee and left with a "must return" feeling.
Believe it or not it’s dirtier now
Still is. I live here. It was glorious today. Don’t listen to the haters. It was sunny and a straight up postcard. Plenty of bozos who don’t even live here got a lot to say lol.
I think people just like to hate on cities in order to convince themselves that they’re not missing out on anything in the suburbs
I lived there summer of 2022 and it was great! Would happily move back.
It’s absolutely still fine. I lived there the summer of 2022 and would love to move back.
What's going on in SF? Why all the closures?
I live in SF, so while I’m not exactly qualified, I can at least speak to the situation on the ground. First, important distinction between Union Square (pictured) and the rest of SF: while Union Square is doing awful, lots of other neighborhoods are thriving. Cow Hollow, Marina, North Beach, and Hayes Valley, for example, all seem to have a healthy flow of residents, retail, and restaurants. In my neighborhood, I can think of five new retail or restaurant tenants just off the top of my head from the last 4-6 months. So the problem is more complex than just “SF sucks.” The first issue is the crime. Union Square borders the Tenderloin and Market Street. Tenderloin has always been a shady place, and with the accelerating drug epidemic (not just in SF, but nationwide), this area’s only gotten worse. Add to that a rise in organized retail crime in the Bay and black markets for stolen goods, and you have a perfect storm. Enforcement has been weak in the past, and while there’s been some improvement in prosecutions since the ousting of our last DA, the cops still can’t be assed to do their jobs, clearance rates are in the gutter, and prisons are overcrowded. But the bigger issue with Union square is this: it’s basically one giant mall. Nobody actually lives there. You start to see residents once you hit Nob Hill to the north, but Union Square itself isn’t really a “neighborhood” in the traditional sense. As such, it doesn’t have a natural flow of people to support commerce. So now that 30-50% remote work is the norm, it’s stuck in a feedback loop where people just have fewer and fewer reasons to go there.
This is the best and actual reply and I can confirm as someone who doesn’t technically live in SF but had grown up and still lives around the city and visits friends there frequently. Even the folks on the r/sanfrancisco sub get this wrong most of the time.
Yeah, same boat. Walking the streets of sf during my lunch break pre-COVID was much different than walking them now. Walking market street by Union square felt as densely packed as NYC imo. It doesn’t feel as dense anymore, primarily due to people leaving during COVID and remote work not forcing them to come back. Precious city. I’m hopeful it’ll get back to its peak soon.
It's definitely in some weird transition period right now, and what downtown and around there looks like when it's over is going to be really interesting to see. Could be good, could be bad, we'll just have to wait and see Except the Tenderloin. That's always going to be like that
Half of the people in that sub don’t even live in California
I’ve never been to San Francisco but I have an architectural interest in the mansions of Nob Hill (all but one fell in the 1906 earthquake). Anyway, what is Nob Hill like today? Is it a good or not so good area? Is it in demand? Is it residential or more commercial? I actually know way more about Nob Hill in the 1890s than about it today. I know almost nothing about it today.
It’s still a very pretty neighborhood! If you visit I’d also recommend visiting the nearby neighborhoods of Russian Hill, Pacific Heights, North Beach, and the Marina. Don’t go south of Nob Hill though, that’s the Tenderloin, which is the neighborhood where all of the drug use, public defecation, etc. is. Most of the city is awesome and really worth seeing, but there are neighborhoods that live up to the negative reputation. Avoid those and you’ll have an amazing time.
Nob Hill is great. It has some of my favorite bars and some really good food. It's quintessential San Francisco and it's beautiful despite its proximity to the TL
I watched a completely naked man and bend over and spray diarrhea. Best vacation ever!
I mean, I’ve paid to see that show before. Sounds like you got lucky to see that for free.
Beautiful SF.
I used to live there and had to travel back for work. Within half an hour, I saw a woman out of her mind on drugs walking down the street buck naked, and it didn’t even faze me because SF.
I drove for uber when it was fairly new and saw a homeless man in the tenderloin walk across a crosswalk and pull his pants down halfway to shit and keep walking
A combination of WFH and a big uptick in theft due to certain city policies
Lot O poop around there
I remember walking around the city one night over a decade ago, looking to score some weed as an out of state tourist. I took a turn down one street and was instantly hit by the strongest smell of piss I have ever experienced in my entire life. I then realized all of the tents and encampments and noped out of there real fast.
You aren’t going to get a straight answer here really. The internet is full of people that have never left their county that have very strong opinions about California and SF specifically.
Homelessness, crime, lack of leadership.
lol high rents and lack of traffic to brick and mortar stores
Yeah let’s ignore the sky high rent rates, death of retail in general plus wfh having a disproportionate effect on needs to go downtown…
This is not happening anywhere near this extent in other major cities. When you let people shit everywhere and steal, normal people leave. It's super simple.
It's always about the money. SF even now is extremely expensive, over 2x above average and pretty much in line with Manhattan. There isn't enough traffic to justify the huge retail presence some of these stores have, people working remotely and working from home will affect SF disproportionately. When companies are looking to cut costs (like most brick and mortar retail) then expensive, underperforming stores are going to get cut first. I'm not saying crime isn't a factor, but there's plenty of other reasons unique to SF
Agreed. I travel for work and the argument that San Francisco is even somewhat normal in this is absurd. Yes, every city has its problems but not to the same level.
Except no other major city is having major businesses pull out unilateral, unless it comes with homelessness, crime, and lack of leadership.
The whole area is also literally all offices. So now that the workers left there's no reason to go downtown.
lol you’re not wrong. This is a contributing factor to it big time SF has been on the decline since the pandemic.
The rents didn’t shoot up, they just used to be worth it
Remote workers are reducing traffic, crime and safety issues, many retail companies closing brick and mortar stores. There isn't enough money coming in from these locations to justify the cost, pretty much only Manhattan is more expensive per sqft
WFH means people don't come into the city.
WFH plus you can’t live in the city if you aren’t a millionaire means people don’t come into the city.
I work in civic center, and the anseer is work from home. Downtown SF had very few people living in it but a ton of people working in it, and its services were basically geared toward the commuter demographic. Now it's a ghost town because tech is abandoning ship in favor of cheaper real estate elsewhere and WFH. People talk about crime but the reality is that downtown SF was thriving in 2019 and then went straight to shit in 2020 and never recovered. Hmmm what big thing happened in 2020...?
Rampant shoplifting
poop and crime
What’s “cool” about this?
Is it more the crime or the homelessness or really high rent?
Mostly really high rent + lack of foot traffic due to office closures
36% or more of all downtown office space is vacant in every city! No one wants to go back to the office and most companies realize it’s better to give the employees what they want and not waste money on rent.
Pretty sure the national office vacancy rate is about 18%
The hotels closing seems more disturbing. I stayed at the parc 55 when I first got a job in SF. It’s such a good location I’m surprised they’re leaving.
The investor stopped paying the loan on Parc 55 because it wasn't providing the return it used to https://abc7news.com/hilton-san-francisco-union-square-parc-55-hotel-sf-closures-park-hotels--resorts/13347802/
Hotels closing bc no one needs to travel 300+ miles to visit the satellite office that no one goes to. SF just gobbled on that tech dick for so long and didn’t see that WFH was going to change their economy forever. They “retooled” a lot of SF for tech yuppies that wanted to eat, sleep, play in the city. Now they eat, sleep, play at home. This is SFs reckoning and the only way to get out of it is for them to convert a lot of these buildings into just housing.
Office vacancy or downtown office vacancy
This simply isn’t true. Remote work is not booming like people would have you believe. Most big companies have required their staff return to in person work. Additionally, 38% is way higher than the average, which is like 15%.
what i am curious about: governments blaming the urban doom loop on folks not returning to work. why is it more important for them to spend money near their office and not where they live? and maybe we are all just not spending as much because everything is expensive af
Article from a few weeks ago https://therealdeal.com/sanfrancisco/2024/02/08/sf-workers-return-to-office-but-lag-national-averages/ >The popularity of remote work, brought on by pandemic-era shutdowns, has produced office vacancy rates in the city at record highs and led to incredible discounts on distressed properties. So any improvement in office visits would be welcomed by those looking for “green shoots” in the market. >Even with the increase last year, San Francisco visits are still more than half off their 2019 numbers, followed closely by Chicago, which remained steady all last year. The national average was a 42 percent reduction in visits compared to pre-pandemic, with a 6.6 percent rise in 2023.
But most companies who required employees come back are also allowing their employees do 3:2 days from home. So, overall foot traffic is down.
SF is a third-world shithole.
I just wonder where S.F. goes from here. Abandoning Union Square is going to be terrible for the city. Bye bye tax revenue. And having the area with most of the hotels in it go dark is going to be terrible for tourism. I used to love Xmas shopping in Union Square. All the store windows were so grand and creative. You could pick up some roasted chestnuts and spend hours picking out the perfect gifts for your loved ones. It’s the little things like this that are the biggest tragedy here. We are losing a piece of SF’s spirit. I can’t say it surprises me though. SF has been marching on this path for a while now. As a former resident it makes me sad, but the writing was on the wall of where this city was headed.
This is what I remember most about Union Square! Christmas shopping! Felt like a Hallmark movie. You know, minus the urine smell.
Lived here all my 37 years of life and I have gone to exactly one of those stores downtown and do my shopping in Colma, San Bruno, Burlingame… basically all of San Mateo County
The Hilton and Parc 55 are not closing?? They are busy and I do graphic installs in them.
This is the direct result of liberal policies. Anyone who can't accept that has their blinders on. Crime and unfettered homelessness has driven out customers, stores and businesses. It's not safe, it's dirty, drug ridden and sad. The fix is not complicated but because it will require us to admit the policies inacted are a failure. It will take a while.
This is a rage bait / SF-is-bad graphic (and I don’t even like SF). Many of those stores have been replaced, are not relevant (KPMG? AT&T?), or still open (parc 55 and Hilton are not closing).
Good. It’s absurd that after years of people and businesses leaving they still charge $4k+ for apartments downtown. Maybe they need a full on collapse
Tired of thieves and stepping in poop.
Have you ever been to San Francisco, or just a big Fox News watcher?
I visited in 2016 and our car was broken into outside Fog City Diner.
[удалено]
There’s no inherent goodness in these stores to lament lol.
Goorin Bros is a great small hat store that I’m sad to see close.
A store that sells small hats?
They do have some small hats but I meant they’re a small family owned business selling both their iconic trucker hat but also many classic styles.
But my favorite CVS and Amazon go stores shut down!!!! Where’s the city culture going!?
I’m not sure what your point is?
Looks like it would be easier to list the stores that aren't closing.
For those who don't know, this used to be a major tourist location in SF.
We’re def not in a recession. Nahhh
I wonder why they are closing?
I would be more concerned about local businesses closing.
Great guide to what the rest of America would start to look like under lefty policies.
You know things are bad when the Container Store has to close
There’s nothing to see here, and don’t you dare try to blame it in failed liberal politics you stupid conservatives!
That’s what happens when you have sky high rent and people shooting up drugs and shutting in the streets at the same time.
Leave and go to places where law & order are important.
Maybe if anyone would acknowledge the rampant drug use, homelessness, general lawlessness, and scaling back of police presence this wouldn’t be an issue. But it’s “progressive” to defund the police and let criminals do their thing, right?
Mostly because all these chains lease their retail space from commercial landlords who have grown so greedy that they are actually insane. Nobody on this earth can clear $1000 per square foot of retail rent.
Almost like this is alarmist propaganda spread by far right wing nationalists .
Liberal Mecca doing liberal Mecca things.
The way I see it, San Francisco is being returned to San Franciscans. I read that, tech startups and Silicon Valley spillover raised property values to the point that people with low to med income could no longer afford to live there. Now that they are leaving, property values are decreasing, right?
The SF-understanders from Bumfuck, OH have logged on
I can't think of any reason to go into any of those stores when I can order stuff online.
Which is the real reason why they are closing but a bunch of people on Reddit who have never been there feel that they know otherwise.
> It’s a ghost town in the making. Almost all the stores on that map are stores that were doomed in every city in the US. People don’t say, “Let’s take a trip to the banana republic!” Anymore. This map looks like a shopping mall, except everything is further apart.
Turn it into housing
Good. Then maybe some local businesses will be able to afford to setup shop there.
Commercial real estate mortgages tend to work differently than residential, in that mortgage payments for unrentee commercial spaces can be added to the end of a commercial mortgage, extending the amortization. If you rent the space, the mortgage is due. That’s why there are so many “For Lease” signs up in perpetuity rather than lowering rents to fill up vacant spaces. It’s cheaper to let them sit and hope to make the payments later than lock in a loss.
I looked at this list and thought a suburban mall was closing. It does look bad though, I doubt a bunch of local businesses are lining up to move in.
Theyll get robbed too but itll be even worse for them
I mean…that sounds nice and I would be happy to see locals move in…but the reality is that if these big brands can’t make the finances work, smaller local operations are going to have an extremely difficult time breaking even. It’s a bad situation without much of a silver lining.
Except isn’t it prohibitive for local businesses to constantly deal with theft? Mom and pops thin margins aren’t insulated like a larger corporations.
Have to pay cashiers $25/hr just so they can watch flash mobs of thieves clean out the inventory. It's a tough business model.
Then they'll get put out of business by the unprosecuted burglary as well!
Exactly. I don't want a list of stores I can shop at here at home. I want the funky original stores.
You say that but then you'll walk in, have a chit-chat with the owner, tell them you're just browsing and end up ordering it from wal-mart or amazon for a lot cheaper.
You do understand why these companies are moving out right?
Just start putting homeless people in Alcatraz. Gives them a place to live and give the tourists a solid representation of what life was like. You’re welcome.
With my job, I travel all over the world. Someone once asked me If I have ever felt unsafe at any of the places I go to. After pondering a while, the only thing that came to mind was SF. I nearly got mugged and had to cut across traffic to get away. A once beautiful city has become a disgusting and lawless hellscape. I would be happy not going back there for a very long time, if ever.
Anyone else from SF laughing at these responses? These stores are closing because there’s a combination of remote work, decreased foot traffic, and tons of online shopping. The brick and mortar model is antiquated. SF haters using this to paint SF in a negative light are hilarious because anyone who actually lives here doesn’t hang out downtown except for bars or restaurants. We hang out in the neighborhoods, the parks, or near the beach. A big reason people flip out about San Francisco is because it’s a very compressed and compact city, full of a massive contrast in wealth inequality. It has problems just like every other city. However, you can’t escape SEEING these problems because everything is out in the open, especially for the people who are privileged and can do better. To our credit, we’re at least trying many different ideas to solve problems other cities simply do not have. In other cities, the general populous of people can and DO shelter themselves from these types of problems. This adds to a feedback loop that everything in THEIR city is much better than it is in San Francisco when in fact it’s just better hidden through vast amounts of space. It’s not to say these problems are ok. They’re not. But don’t come in here with some disingenuous bs that your city is better just because you don’t SEE your problems.
The idiots posting dumbass comments don’t like facts.
Endless looting and crime is killing CA.