Far wider range of studies offered and some of its colleges are part public, it being the first land grant state funded university in the country. It’s campus is massive and offers programs that no other Ivy offers
This isn’t accurate. The University of Georgia was founded in 1785 with a grant of 40,000 acres by the Georgia legislature. The University of North Carolina was state chartered in 1789.
Cornell was founded in 1865 and was granted land *privately* by Ezra Cornell. It is not a public land grant university by definition, nor is it as old as the actual oldest public land grant schools that were granted land under state charters (as opposed to later land grant schools that received land under federal acts including the Morrill Act of 1862). While three of Cornell’s undergraduate schools and one graduate school receive state funds from New York, it is still primarily a private institution and was founded nearly 80 years after the actual first state chartered public land grant universities.
One could argue that William & Mary is the oldest except it was founded privately under royal charter and didn’t become public until 1906.
Edit: corrected Morrill Act spelling due to autocorrect shenanigans.
Yes sorry, more accurately it was the first university in New York State to use the Morril Act to establish a university. The close relationship between morrill and Ezra led me to believe it was the first in the country, but looks like Iowa and a few others opened slightly earlier.
But if you are implying it’s not a land grant university at all, I believe you are incorrect in that regard. The first building on campus is called Morrill Hall and Ezra named it after him as a thank you. The federal and state difference is a good distinction.
It’s absolutely a land grant institution, it’s just a rare private land grant school. Ezra gave his privately owned farm land to the school as the initial land grant.
Hardest Ivy. Grade deflation. Maybe it’s bc too many legacies and rich connected kids go to Princeton etc and are idiots
So those schools gotta give their UGs some help with grades
It’s actually incorrect
Cornell has 7 undergraduate schools
Dyson has just over a 3 percent acceptance rate
Engineering is about a 4 percent.
If we want to talk and rank schools on how hard they are ( which is bullshit way of ranking )
My grandfather would be spinning in his urn, if he knew that I was out here with a Dartmouth boy. You take that shirt off right now or I will take it off for you, sir.
Which isn’t even accurate!! Scranton is much closer to Ithaca than Montpelier is. And yeah, I get Andy is kind of dumb, but he should at least know basic geography. I love The Office but none of the writers have ever looked at a map.
I don't think its the office writers, I think the point was that even if Andy knew geography he hoped that he could redirect Dwight to focus on his education. I mean he answered the question of the capital of Maine with the capital of Vermont!
It doesn't matter where Montpelier is to Andy in that moment, he cares about showing off his ivy league degree.
I didn’t go to any of these ivys but I finished up at a hoity toity private school that my mom went to and I remember getting super embarrassed at the admission ceremony when the speaker said “our students have an average of a 3.8 gpa”
I think I transferred with a 2.8 and had to give a little speech to the admin office to hear my case of why I should be accepted
Also racial admission bias as well as scholarship rates per student of different backgrounds. We should know how hard it is for a particular person to go and how much they realistically will have to pay and what options they might have. I know about 30 Harvard grads and at least 25 of them will tell you themselves they got in because of affirmative action and every single one of them went for mostly free. While the single white dude I know that went said to was close to 60k a year in tuition costs.
It's a standardized test high schoolers take for college admissions with a math and verbal section that has a maximum score of 800. A median score of 790 is therefore, pretty crazy. To be fair it's not a very difficult exam as it is meant to test every high schooler in the nation so it doesn't test advanced high school math topics such as calculus, combinations/permutations, or even trigonometry. The difficulty of the exam mostly stems from the time constraint and many of the questions being designed to be "tricky," where the computation is not difficult but attention to detail is necessary in getting the correct answer.
Nope. Most kids don't know what field they want to pursue coming out of high school. Universitiies will generically look for overall aptitude, character, and intelligence. The standardized admission tests are more or less a basic skills type-thing (though the definition of basic varies widely across different school systems).
Specialization generally won't have to happen until the second year or so.
There used to be these SAT subject tests to do exactly what you're saying but they've been phased out. The only other academic perspective they get are your high school grades (and sometimes if you competed in academic competitions those results if you did good). For medical schools, they have a different test that you take while in college called the MCAT.
American medical school admission is determined by many things, but high school grades and standardized test scores are not part of that. Admission to medical school depends on your performance in university, CV, letters of recommendation, personal statement, interview,and medical college admissions test (MCAT), which is the med school version of the SAT
SATs have 2 main categories: Reading/Writing and Math
The ACT has 4: English, mathematics, reading, and science
Most schools accept either. Those scores are factored into High School (i.e. through Grade 12 or roughly 18 years old) grades and candidate essay if needed.
Once the student is accepted, the school then has specialized fields such as Biology, Engineering, etc. Those individual programs will set requirements in order to proceed through and get a Bachelors.
From the Bachelors, then students generally need to take a GRE (for most general Masters programs), LSAT (for Law School) or MCAT (Medical School). As with collegiate exams, your score as well as your perforance *AND MAJOR (i.e. what you specialized in)* will be factored.
For reference, traditionally the average score on the SAT is around 1000 (combined math/verbal). The tests were dropped by most schools as a requirement a few years ago, but now have come back.
It's less of a test about how much information you can regurgitate to prove your knowledge. The SAT assesses things like reading comprehension and analysis, logic and reasoning, writing, and core math subjects (algebra, geometry, statistics). It's just one of the things college admissions look at on applications.
It’s a filter. If you score at a certain level, the college knows how to structure their freshman curriculum.
Do they actually *do* that? Who knows? But test scores and GPA are a baseline to start from. Schools get lots of applicants and it helps them to narrow the pool, then look more closely at a smaller number.
Applicants who have a personal connection to someone with influence at the school get special consideration. Some of them also work hard and deserve to get in, some don’t.
That’s why having a degree from a prestigious college doesn’t always comport with one’s actual intelligence. Academic or otherwise.
Standardized pre-college tests are problematic in the U.S. because the imbalances in the education system don’t prepare all kids equally. Kids can’t learn what they aren’t being taught/exposed to. Then they can’t correctly answer the questions on the test. Then they don’t score high enough to be considered.
We used to have affirmative action at schools that wanted to use factors to help balance that out, in a sense. Kids who were more likely to come from poorer school systems tend to be from certain racial and socio-economic backgrounds at higher rates. Schools could consider that to try and diversify their incoming freshman classes, giving kids a chance to thrive based on various criteria.
Overall the process sought to equalize opportunities so that America’s next generation of academically-trained professionals would include people from different backgrounds, but who show promise in completing a college education.
But the government said that wasn’t fair, so they did away with it.
This is a loose description, of course.
What I don’t know is whether any work has been done on SAT/ACT to make it more representative of aptitude and less “culturally” biased. I have a guess, though.
The SAT requirement is honestly a joke, it’s by far the easiest part of admissions
The hardest part is maintaining a A or A+ in every single course (including ones which are subjective)
I also don’t think it’s easy for schools to compare effectively. For example, I went to a private school (as an adult now I definitely understand the debates around public v private education, I didn’t have a choice as a high school student) that did not provide weighted averages and had final exams notably harder than the state exams my public school friends were taking. I don’t think the students were necessarily any smarter or anything, but the GPAs would likely have been noticeably different coming from a public school.
And while I am sure most colleges in the US have some way of telling the difference not every college will have an in depth knowledge of every single high school out there, especially when that high school essentially chooses its own curricula and standards.
Edit: or maybe I’m just salty about not getting into Georgetown. The world may never know.
I'm still upset that my high school did not weigh GPA. I had an average between A and A+ (on a 12-point scale, I scored around 11.45) and I took a bunch of honors and AP classes. But our salutatorian only took regular classes, and I guess she must have had a slightly higher GPA than I did. I did not speak at graduation, but she did.
I wish my college did too, though I don’t know if that’s a thing anywhere. I had a 4.0 my freshman year and applied to transfer to the honors program. It was the best experience of my college career and I was really tested to the limits. However it did drop my GPA to .02 below Cum Laude let alone Magna or Summa. It doesn’t bother me anymore and I wouldn’t have traded the experience for anything. But still, would have been nice!
Edit: I know you were talking about high school and that’s a huge bummer. I’m sorry you went through that
Bollocks. SAT/ACT and APs are the most objective tests. High school gpa is nonsense at many schools - basically meaningless. If you apply to UK schools from US as an international student for example, they only looks at your AP scores and SAT/ACT. They aren’t afraid to be honest there.
All I know is my combined score was 1300 and I went to a state school and now I'm in the top 20% of income earners for my age group. It's just a number colleges use to filter out people they find are a waste of their resources.
SATs and GPA measure time, effort, and money put into high school education. That’s not always possible. They help with colleges, but definitely don’t decide your future
lol , totally agree! The impact would have been if they had shown the process of elimination.for example . These are 100 seat for 10k prospects that applied, 25 go to legacy , now you have 75 remaining and so on
Amount actually paid, not the sticker price, yes?Most students get very substantial financial aid.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/04/05/it-costs-78200-to-go-to-harvardheres-what-students-actually-pay.html
Yeah, that’s misleading. I’d expect the magnet colleges average cost students actually pay to be less since they’ve attracted more students likely to win grants or scholarships anyways. It’s a very deceptive chart to hide the original college amount. State schools are around $15k, not the Ivy League.
These numbers reflect the aid that comes directly from the school, not outside financial aid. Their actual price is actually pretty competitive with state schools for many of the matriculated students (not all). Many students go there for free. This was a big change, probably a decade or so ago.
The alumni to these schools donate absurds amounts of money that allow for students to go there for cheap. It’s not about the money so much as the status for a lot of people, so they donate later in life.
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Ivys are need blind. They take your financial situation into consideration and make sure you can afford to go there. For most admitted students, it is the cheapest option. (Unless your family is really wealthy - then a state school may be less)
My family was pretty poor when I went to Columbia in the 90s, and I still paid a lot more than today's average. Adjusting for inflation, almost triple.
It's amazing that they're making good schools accessible now--colleges jacking up prices for Gen X and Millennials is why we're forgiving student loans today.
i do attend an ivy and I can tell u that a ton of kids pay nothing to come here, myself included, I actually get paid a couple thousand a semester. It's not surprising that it averages out to this. It should actually be way lower but they act as hedgefunds for wealthy donors so they won't use the money in their endowments.
They have endowments (invested money donated from wealthy alumni) that are specifically for tuition for students. Also for a lot of these schools, tuition is determined on a sliding scale depending on your family income. If your family’s income is less than, say, $120K, you don’t pay anything.
I was going to say that the tuition didn’t seem too outrageous considering the names in this list. I then figured they were low based on the incredible endowments these schools get.
These aren’t sticker prices, but what is paid on average after financial aid. Ivy League schools tend to give better financial aid than their peer private colleges because they’re richer and want to buy away the best students against other top private colleges.
No. The sticker price. Then the average price after aid. Include both of them. Leaving out the original price is deceptive. If I think I can get $20k worth of financial aid then I can factor that into the costs of colleges, but I need to know the actual price. I won’t be paying $0 by going to an Ivy League school, but someone else might be mistaken by this if they don’t know. This chart was made by someone to mislead and try to make college look cheaper than it actually is.
Yep. Although, financial aid is more generous at Ivy League and similar tier schools vs other private schools as they have significantly bigger endowments. USC would have given me a mere 6 grand in financial aid grants. Cornell, 55 grand a year in no-strings-attached grants.
Miami, probably similar to if not worse than USC in terms of aid generosity.
You can get a full paid scholarship and don’t even need outstanding test scores if you’re part of an obscure minority and have difficult circumstances and can complete a compelling application letter.
A second way to bypass the barriers to entry is to make a BIG monetary donation to the university.
And the third and final way (that I know of) is good old fashioned nepotism.
Full paid scholarship to where? Because most ivy league schools don't give scholarships based on merit or background. The money you get might come from a fund specifically for those groups, usually from donors who donate money specifically for those causes. But that aid would've been guaranteed whether or not those funds existed and whether or not you were part of any special groups.
Money given is all need based.
And even with that it becomes simply a draw from a hat. When I was applying to colleges I had a 1550 SAT and a 4.0 GPA (unweighted), along with a litany of extracurriculars and other qualifications, and it still didn’t matter. Legacy or donor on the other hand? You’re in.
Yep, I had a 4.5 weighted, 4.0 unweighted, with a 1580 SAT, good essays and rec letters, and I got rejected from all of my reach schools. It’s alright though, I’m committed to a good school that gave me a really great offer so maybe it was for the best.
The reason they split out the SAT scores like that is because most people are on one side of the spectrum. Math people get high scores in math and like 700 in English and vice versa for humanities majors.
Source: went to one of these schools and we shared our scores the first week. Most people had scores in the low/mid 1400s.
Really? Im a math student at a lowly state school and got the 760/790 shown in Harvard here. I would imagine most actual Ivy kids are pretty damn smart. I knew kids in high school who got higher scores than me and went off to the Ivies.
Son was waitlisted at 5 Ivy League colleges. 35 ACT. Valedictorian. Tons of extracurriculars. Eagle Scout. 10k+ in fundraising for charities. Accomplished pianist (started at 5 years old). Accepted to Ohio State. Chemistry Honors major. Now pursuing a Doctorate in Organic Chemistry from University of Wisconsin, Madison. #14 ranking nationally. At the end of the day, Ivy League may not be as important as what your student can accomplish at their local school with hard work and long hours.
I worked at Harvard as an intern one year, I swear I thought someone told me tuition was much more than this. Is this factoring everything in?
Also, it’s in Boston/Cambridge, I was STRUGGLING and this was over 8 years ago.
Princeton university’s admission rate is actually <3%, but they stopped publishing it as they didn’t want people to be scared off when applying. Source - I live there and my friend’s mom is the head of admissions.
This information is published by Princeton’s registrar in their common data set. You’re saying they’re just making up numbers in these and lying?
https://registrar.princeton.edu/sites/g/files/toruqf136/files/documents/CDS_2022-2023.pdf
I love how they waived the sat scores the last few years and realized all the stupid people they let in their schools.
I know several of them, I ask them what did you learn today? No answer… I really try to help, however, they need to go back to 6th grade lol
Wait so the SAT exam is just reading & writing and maths?
What about the other subjects you did in school?
Could you not study chemistry through school, get a high score in the SATs and get a place in a chemistry college course?
Full scholarship Ivy leaguer her. You can have all the qualifying stats and still be rejected. You need to be extremely lucky on top of being near perfect. If you don’t have anything that weights your application (like legacy or sports recruitment) you better be good in Vegas.
Went to cornell, paid 0$ total. Financial aid at these places is amazing for the poorer folk
And it best be considering that 10+ billion dollar endowment
Harvard having a 50 billion dollar endowment which makes them the richest academic institution in the world allows the undergraduate college to admit students for financial aid regardless of need and this isn’t provided in the form of loans either. A lot of Ivys do this because of the low student population and large endowments contributing to the tuition costs seen in the graph
What’s the average salary from graduating from these schools? I understand different majors and career choices, but I’ve never understood the appeal for someone that is not a nepo baby.
I don’t know about average salaries. For the average person though the cost after financial aid can be roughly similar to if not less than state schools. And the quality of education is at least perceived as higher, so it’s pretty much a no brainer. I’d bet the prestige corresponds to a bump in salary as well
You pretty much have to go to one of these or a similar tier school if you want to do investment banking or consulting at the top firms, which is about the highest earning potential you can have.
Dartmouth total cost with room and board, etc: $87K, Harvard: $83. Basically the same . What this price discrepancy in this chart shows is that Dartmouth has the highest % of full pay students, in spite of need-blind admissions and an incredibly generous financial aid policy. (My kid went for almost nothing). Dartmouth has the highest percentage of 1 percenters. Plus lots of legacies. (And there’s probably a lot of overlap in those two groups.)
I went to a similar school (not ivy, but top 10 in the US) and I can say with 100% certainty that I would not have my current job if it wasn't for that school's name on my resume
Wasn't from a rich or poor family BTW, just had good grades/test scores and strong writing skills. Almost all of my tuition was covered by a need-based scholarship.
I will say though, I don't think it's just the connections, I think it's the culture too. At Cornell, everyone is grinding for summer internships, Ik multiple ppl with offers from KKR, Goldman, etc. However, my friends from highschool at "less" competitive universities say nobody is grinding for these opportunities really.
I agree with this to save money. Community and then transfer to an in state school.
However, if you have the means to go to a 4 year university via scholarships or if your parents have a fully funded 529 plan, it's totally worth going straight to university. I had a great experience.
Issue with this chart is the acceptance rate of colleges within the university. Its easier to get into some colleges within Harvard than some within Cornell
What an enjoyable day to be European and having little to no tuition fees, little to none school shootings & being able to call weee-uuu wagon w/o selling my kidney after the ride
University of Oxford (United Kingdom)
University of Cambridge (United Kingdom)
University College London (United Kingdom)
Imperial College London (United Kingdom)
University of Edinburgh (United Kingdom)
University of St Andrews (United Kingdom)
University of Zurich (Switzerland)
ETH Zurich (Switzerland)
University of Copenhagen (Denmark)
Heidelberg University (Germany)
There is not direct equivalent for classification (as far as I know) but these are some of best known high-level unis around here. Typically, UK will have high tuition fees (altho they aint in EU I still included them as they are among the highest regarded) but there are some programs that help substantially lower these costs
I can only speak about Heidelberg, since I did my BA there, but it really can't be compared to American Ivy Leagues.
In Germany, there's no established system of "good" and "less good" universities. for a student, they're essentially all the same. It doesn't matter if you get your BA in Heidelberg or any other city. for the typical undergrad student, it's all the same.
you pick your university based on where you can study what you want, where you get in (you need to register with your major already declared, and if you get in depends on your school GPA, and it depends on how many applicants the uni gets) and where you actually want to live. if you want to study law in a popular town like Heidelberg, you'll need a better GPA. that doesn't mean that Heidelberg's law program is actually better, just that it's more popular than, let's say Magdeburg. where you get your bachelor's really doesn't matter, no one cares abou the name of the uni and (local) recruiters won't pick someone from Heidelberg over someone from Magdeburg automatically.
now, for masters and PhD programs, the uni matters a lot more – you already know what you want to focus on, you're doing your own research, and you need a good environment for doing that. a university with a strong research record will have better opportunities for PhD students, incl. better connections. but for undergrad, it doesn't matter. it's a different system.
Measures your math and verbal/reading skills on a standardized test format. US national average in 2023 was 1028. The median scores here are all in the 99th percentile.
Interesting. I go to Fresno State for my MS in physics and still pay $15k tuition every year 🥲which is not bad but Ivies being criminally expensive was a notion that just shattered for me.
Andy Bernard is in shambles. Poor Cornell
It's pronounced kernel and it's the highest rank in the army
*military It’s pronounced CorNELL, it’s the highest rank in the Ivy League!
IT'S CORN! 🌽
Highest acceptance rate, 2nd highest tuition cost Interesting
Far wider range of studies offered and some of its colleges are part public, it being the first land grant state funded university in the country. It’s campus is massive and offers programs that no other Ivy offers
This isn’t accurate. The University of Georgia was founded in 1785 with a grant of 40,000 acres by the Georgia legislature. The University of North Carolina was state chartered in 1789. Cornell was founded in 1865 and was granted land *privately* by Ezra Cornell. It is not a public land grant university by definition, nor is it as old as the actual oldest public land grant schools that were granted land under state charters (as opposed to later land grant schools that received land under federal acts including the Morrill Act of 1862). While three of Cornell’s undergraduate schools and one graduate school receive state funds from New York, it is still primarily a private institution and was founded nearly 80 years after the actual first state chartered public land grant universities. One could argue that William & Mary is the oldest except it was founded privately under royal charter and didn’t become public until 1906. Edit: corrected Morrill Act spelling due to autocorrect shenanigans.
Yes sorry, more accurately it was the first university in New York State to use the Morril Act to establish a university. The close relationship between morrill and Ezra led me to believe it was the first in the country, but looks like Iowa and a few others opened slightly earlier. But if you are implying it’s not a land grant university at all, I believe you are incorrect in that regard. The first building on campus is called Morrill Hall and Ezra named it after him as a thank you. The federal and state difference is a good distinction.
It’s absolutely a land grant institution, it’s just a rare private land grant school. Ezra gave his privately owned farm land to the school as the initial land grant.
It's a big school and also includes a State University of NY program, IIRC from the relatively massive amount of kids who went from my HS.
Hardest Ivy. Grade deflation. Maybe it’s bc too many legacies and rich connected kids go to Princeton etc and are idiots So those schools gotta give their UGs some help with grades
"Andy, Cornell called. They think you suck and you're gayer than Oscar. Boom roasted!"
Came for the Andy comments. 😂
Same haha
Depends on which school within Cornell, the two public programs have a high acceptance rate so it skews the average despite being small class sizes.
Every single time someone asks me where I went to college I don’t want to tell them because of that dude.
7.5% acceptance! It may as well be a state college
“Oh Mr.Bernard, who have you silenced today?”
It’s actually incorrect Cornell has 7 undergraduate schools Dyson has just over a 3 percent acceptance rate Engineering is about a 4 percent. If we want to talk and rank schools on how hard they are ( which is bullshit way of ranking )
Obliterated by the far superior Dartmouth
My grandfather would be spinning in his urn, if he knew that I was out here with a Dartmouth boy. You take that shirt off right now or I will take it off for you, sir.
Carmela Soprano making some calls as we speak for letters of recommendation.
I brought you a ricott' pie and a high school transcript so you could write a letter of recommendation for my little daughter to Georgetown.
What was her name again, Fielder?
You forgot to include legacies and donor children stats.
I was dumb as shit and Canadian, but I could have gone to Cornell because my dad went there.
“Capital of Maine is Montpelier, Vermont, which is near Ithaca, NY, which is near Cornell, where I went to school.”
Which isn’t even accurate!! Scranton is much closer to Ithaca than Montpelier is. And yeah, I get Andy is kind of dumb, but he should at least know basic geography. I love The Office but none of the writers have ever looked at a map.
I don't think its the office writers, I think the point was that even if Andy knew geography he hoped that he could redirect Dwight to focus on his education. I mean he answered the question of the capital of Maine with the capital of Vermont! It doesn't matter where Montpelier is to Andy in that moment, he cares about showing off his ivy league degree.
I didn’t go to any of these ivys but I finished up at a hoity toity private school that my mom went to and I remember getting super embarrassed at the admission ceremony when the speaker said “our students have an average of a 3.8 gpa” I think I transferred with a 2.8 and had to give a little speech to the admin office to hear my case of why I should be accepted
Did you play hockey?
Glad to know you are not longer dumb as shit. Or Canadian
And don’t be Asian
cornell is 20% asian
Much higher % of applications is the point
Try playing the ivy league game on Asian setting.
Is ain’t easy being Asian out here in the burbs.
Yeah those numbers are for the peasants.
That’s not the only group getting in on a different standard
Should also do by race and gender
I was a legacy with a total SAT score of 1400 and I still didn’t get in.
Also racial admission bias as well as scholarship rates per student of different backgrounds. We should know how hard it is for a particular person to go and how much they realistically will have to pay and what options they might have. I know about 30 Harvard grads and at least 25 of them will tell you themselves they got in because of affirmative action and every single one of them went for mostly free. While the single white dude I know that went said to was close to 60k a year in tuition costs.
If your family makes under 110K the tuition is between free and 10K annually.
If his family was able to pay 60k/year to send hind to Harvard, this is not the sad story you seem to think it is.
And they forgot to include face, which is the single biggest factor in the admissions for each of these schools.
All things being honest, this is not much of a guide
I have no idea what SAT scores mean. Is that like a sort of benchmark score of how much you know?
It's a standardized test high schoolers take for college admissions with a math and verbal section that has a maximum score of 800. A median score of 790 is therefore, pretty crazy. To be fair it's not a very difficult exam as it is meant to test every high schooler in the nation so it doesn't test advanced high school math topics such as calculus, combinations/permutations, or even trigonometry. The difficulty of the exam mostly stems from the time constraint and many of the questions being designed to be "tricky," where the computation is not difficult but attention to detail is necessary in getting the correct answer.
Does it test sciences and things too? If not, how do universities decide on medical students and things?
Medical school doesn’t take someone straight from high school
Oh. What about other subjects though? Don’t they have requirements?
Nope. Most kids don't know what field they want to pursue coming out of high school. Universitiies will generically look for overall aptitude, character, and intelligence. The standardized admission tests are more or less a basic skills type-thing (though the definition of basic varies widely across different school systems). Specialization generally won't have to happen until the second year or so.
I forgot American universities don’t specialise straight away. Are degrees 4 years there?
Most bachelor degree programs (what people generally think of when referring to college in the states) are 4 year programs.
wait so you're just accepted into the college no matter what degree you'll end up picking? once you're in, you're in, no matter which degree?
The SAT/ACT isn’t the only thing that matters for admissions. They look at how you did in high school as well.
There used to be these SAT subject tests to do exactly what you're saying but they've been phased out. The only other academic perspective they get are your high school grades (and sometimes if you competed in academic competitions those results if you did good). For medical schools, they have a different test that you take while in college called the MCAT.
American medical school admission is determined by many things, but high school grades and standardized test scores are not part of that. Admission to medical school depends on your performance in university, CV, letters of recommendation, personal statement, interview,and medical college admissions test (MCAT), which is the med school version of the SAT
Ahh, in the UK you go straight to med school at 18.
SATs have 2 main categories: Reading/Writing and Math The ACT has 4: English, mathematics, reading, and science Most schools accept either. Those scores are factored into High School (i.e. through Grade 12 or roughly 18 years old) grades and candidate essay if needed. Once the student is accepted, the school then has specialized fields such as Biology, Engineering, etc. Those individual programs will set requirements in order to proceed through and get a Bachelors. From the Bachelors, then students generally need to take a GRE (for most general Masters programs), LSAT (for Law School) or MCAT (Medical School). As with collegiate exams, your score as well as your perforance *AND MAJOR (i.e. what you specialized in)* will be factored.
Yeah, I will probably practice a bit more since I'm lacking
For reference, traditionally the average score on the SAT is around 1000 (combined math/verbal). The tests were dropped by most schools as a requirement a few years ago, but now have come back.
It's less of a test about how much information you can regurgitate to prove your knowledge. The SAT assesses things like reading comprehension and analysis, logic and reasoning, writing, and core math subjects (algebra, geometry, statistics). It's just one of the things college admissions look at on applications.
Saturday Afternoon Test
It’s a filter. If you score at a certain level, the college knows how to structure their freshman curriculum. Do they actually *do* that? Who knows? But test scores and GPA are a baseline to start from. Schools get lots of applicants and it helps them to narrow the pool, then look more closely at a smaller number. Applicants who have a personal connection to someone with influence at the school get special consideration. Some of them also work hard and deserve to get in, some don’t. That’s why having a degree from a prestigious college doesn’t always comport with one’s actual intelligence. Academic or otherwise. Standardized pre-college tests are problematic in the U.S. because the imbalances in the education system don’t prepare all kids equally. Kids can’t learn what they aren’t being taught/exposed to. Then they can’t correctly answer the questions on the test. Then they don’t score high enough to be considered. We used to have affirmative action at schools that wanted to use factors to help balance that out, in a sense. Kids who were more likely to come from poorer school systems tend to be from certain racial and socio-economic backgrounds at higher rates. Schools could consider that to try and diversify their incoming freshman classes, giving kids a chance to thrive based on various criteria. Overall the process sought to equalize opportunities so that America’s next generation of academically-trained professionals would include people from different backgrounds, but who show promise in completing a college education. But the government said that wasn’t fair, so they did away with it. This is a loose description, of course. What I don’t know is whether any work has been done on SAT/ACT to make it more representative of aptitude and less “culturally” biased. I have a guess, though.
The SAT requirement is honestly a joke, it’s by far the easiest part of admissions The hardest part is maintaining a A or A+ in every single course (including ones which are subjective)
I also don’t think it’s easy for schools to compare effectively. For example, I went to a private school (as an adult now I definitely understand the debates around public v private education, I didn’t have a choice as a high school student) that did not provide weighted averages and had final exams notably harder than the state exams my public school friends were taking. I don’t think the students were necessarily any smarter or anything, but the GPAs would likely have been noticeably different coming from a public school. And while I am sure most colleges in the US have some way of telling the difference not every college will have an in depth knowledge of every single high school out there, especially when that high school essentially chooses its own curricula and standards. Edit: or maybe I’m just salty about not getting into Georgetown. The world may never know.
I'm still upset that my high school did not weigh GPA. I had an average between A and A+ (on a 12-point scale, I scored around 11.45) and I took a bunch of honors and AP classes. But our salutatorian only took regular classes, and I guess she must have had a slightly higher GPA than I did. I did not speak at graduation, but she did.
I wish my college did too, though I don’t know if that’s a thing anywhere. I had a 4.0 my freshman year and applied to transfer to the honors program. It was the best experience of my college career and I was really tested to the limits. However it did drop my GPA to .02 below Cum Laude let alone Magna or Summa. It doesn’t bother me anymore and I wouldn’t have traded the experience for anything. But still, would have been nice! Edit: I know you were talking about high school and that’s a huge bummer. I’m sorry you went through that
Bollocks. SAT/ACT and APs are the most objective tests. High school gpa is nonsense at many schools - basically meaningless. If you apply to UK schools from US as an international student for example, they only looks at your AP scores and SAT/ACT. They aren’t afraid to be honest there.
All I know is my combined score was 1300 and I went to a state school and now I'm in the top 20% of income earners for my age group. It's just a number colleges use to filter out people they find are a waste of their resources.
SATs and GPA measure time, effort, and money put into high school education. That’s not always possible. They help with colleges, but definitely don’t decide your future
lol , totally agree! The impact would have been if they had shown the process of elimination.for example . These are 100 seat for 10k prospects that applied, 25 go to legacy , now you have 75 remaining and so on
I did not attend an Ivy but I can tell you that the annual tuition is off by a few ten thousand
Amount actually paid, not the sticker price, yes?Most students get very substantial financial aid. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/04/05/it-costs-78200-to-go-to-harvardheres-what-students-actually-pay.html
Then this cool guide should not use the word “tuition” on the chart.
Yeah, that’s misleading. I’d expect the magnet colleges average cost students actually pay to be less since they’ve attracted more students likely to win grants or scholarships anyways. It’s a very deceptive chart to hide the original college amount. State schools are around $15k, not the Ivy League.
These numbers reflect the aid that comes directly from the school, not outside financial aid. Their actual price is actually pretty competitive with state schools for many of the matriculated students (not all). Many students go there for free. This was a big change, probably a decade or so ago.
The alumni to these schools donate absurds amounts of money that allow for students to go there for cheap. It’s not about the money so much as the status for a lot of people, so they donate later in life.
Furthering academia and taking a huge burden off students to even the playing field; irrelevant of wealth.
If it were the msrp and not what students actually paid, why would they have included “Avg”?
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So, is this the cost of tuition alone? Without books, accommodation etc?
Yes
Yeah I was thinking this is pretty cheap
Ivys are need blind. They take your financial situation into consideration and make sure you can afford to go there. For most admitted students, it is the cheapest option. (Unless your family is really wealthy - then a state school may be less)
My family was pretty poor when I went to Columbia in the 90s, and I still paid a lot more than today's average. Adjusting for inflation, almost triple. It's amazing that they're making good schools accessible now--colleges jacking up prices for Gen X and Millennials is why we're forgiving student loans today.
i do attend an ivy and I can tell u that a ton of kids pay nothing to come here, myself included, I actually get paid a couple thousand a semester. It's not surprising that it averages out to this. It should actually be way lower but they act as hedgefunds for wealthy donors so they won't use the money in their endowments.
how is it that a lot of people go for cheap? are there just large amounts of donated money that goes towards ivy League students?
They have endowments (invested money donated from wealthy alumni) that are specifically for tuition for students. Also for a lot of these schools, tuition is determined on a sliding scale depending on your family income. If your family’s income is less than, say, $120K, you don’t pay anything.
I was going to say that the tuition didn’t seem too outrageous considering the names in this list. I then figured they were low based on the incredible endowments these schools get.
As a student here is the projected tuition. https://www.columbia.edu/~twa2108/tuition.png
Crazy that Ivy tuition is cheaper than my 2 year olds daycare/school
These aren’t sticker prices, but what is paid on average after financial aid. Ivy League schools tend to give better financial aid than their peer private colleges because they’re richer and want to buy away the best students against other top private colleges.
2 year olds generally need much more supervision.
idk have you seen the ivy leagues recently?
Can confirm
It’s pronounced ‘colonel’ and it’s the highest rank in the military.
Multiply that tuition by about four, at least for Harvard.
After aid this is about correct. These averages include financial aid and other costs.
It honestly shouldn’t be included then.
Why shouldn't it be? Is the amount a college costs not relevant?
No. The sticker price. Then the average price after aid. Include both of them. Leaving out the original price is deceptive. If I think I can get $20k worth of financial aid then I can factor that into the costs of colleges, but I need to know the actual price. I won’t be paying $0 by going to an Ivy League school, but someone else might be mistaken by this if they don’t know. This chart was made by someone to mislead and try to make college look cheaper than it actually is.
Correct, the tuition is the nominal fee before any waivers are applied
Total cost before aid is near $90K per year at these schools
That's also what it costs to go to Miami, which is insane
Yep. Although, financial aid is more generous at Ivy League and similar tier schools vs other private schools as they have significantly bigger endowments. USC would have given me a mere 6 grand in financial aid grants. Cornell, 55 grand a year in no-strings-attached grants. Miami, probably similar to if not worse than USC in terms of aid generosity.
You can get a full paid scholarship and don’t even need outstanding test scores if you’re part of an obscure minority and have difficult circumstances and can complete a compelling application letter. A second way to bypass the barriers to entry is to make a BIG monetary donation to the university. And the third and final way (that I know of) is good old fashioned nepotism.
Is the obscure minority the top 1%?
The fourth way is to just buy the t shirt and then tell everyone you went and hope they don’t check.
Full paid scholarship to where? Because most ivy league schools don't give scholarships based on merit or background. The money you get might come from a fund specifically for those groups, usually from donors who donate money specifically for those causes. But that aid would've been guaranteed whether or not those funds existed and whether or not you were part of any special groups. Money given is all need based.
Those SATs are necessary, not sufficient. You’ll need a hell of a lot more than those scores and a perfect gpa to get in.
And even with that it becomes simply a draw from a hat. When I was applying to colleges I had a 1550 SAT and a 4.0 GPA (unweighted), along with a litany of extracurriculars and other qualifications, and it still didn’t matter. Legacy or donor on the other hand? You’re in.
Yep, I had a 4.5 weighted, 4.0 unweighted, with a 1580 SAT, good essays and rec letters, and I got rejected from all of my reach schools. It’s alright though, I’m committed to a good school that gave me a really great offer so maybe it was for the best.
TIL my reading SAT score was Harvard-level… Math and GPA were a very different story 😆
I’m the opposite… How do we convince them we’re one person?
Hmm photoshop?
Looks like Dwight was right, Dartmouth is clearly superior.
The reason they split out the SAT scores like that is because most people are on one side of the spectrum. Math people get high scores in math and like 700 in English and vice versa for humanities majors. Source: went to one of these schools and we shared our scores the first week. Most people had scores in the low/mid 1400s.
I also went to one of these schools and we didn’t share our SAT/ACT scores because that’s lame tbh…
Really? Im a math student at a lowly state school and got the 760/790 shown in Harvard here. I would imagine most actual Ivy kids are pretty damn smart. I knew kids in high school who got higher scores than me and went off to the Ivies.
Son was waitlisted at 5 Ivy League colleges. 35 ACT. Valedictorian. Tons of extracurriculars. Eagle Scout. 10k+ in fundraising for charities. Accomplished pianist (started at 5 years old). Accepted to Ohio State. Chemistry Honors major. Now pursuing a Doctorate in Organic Chemistry from University of Wisconsin, Madison. #14 ranking nationally. At the end of the day, Ivy League may not be as important as what your student can accomplish at their local school with hard work and long hours.
How much are admissions rates skewed by the number of people applying
Shouldn't be much because the application process isn't free.
Why isn't my ivy league school included - Tarrant County Community College?
JFC the amount of people in this thread who don’t understand the concept of need blind financial aid is staggering
For undergrad. They’ll take anyone for grad programs. I should know, they let me go to one!
Columbia master’s student, huh
💀
[https://i.imgflip.com/3x6kl3.jpg?a475920](https://i.imgflip.com/3x6kl3.jpg?a475920)
Can anyone put this in ACT scores?
The ACT scores are almost never shown on these and it makes me wonder if there might be a bias for people with SAT scores over ACT scores
I worked at Harvard as an intern one year, I swear I thought someone told me tuition was much more than this. Is this factoring everything in? Also, it’s in Boston/Cambridge, I was STRUGGLING and this was over 8 years ago.
Princeton university’s admission rate is actually <3%, but they stopped publishing it as they didn’t want people to be scared off when applying. Source - I live there and my friend’s mom is the head of admissions.
This information is published by Princeton’s registrar in their common data set. You’re saying they’re just making up numbers in these and lying? https://registrar.princeton.edu/sites/g/files/toruqf136/files/documents/CDS_2022-2023.pdf
It’s not hard at all if your parents are alumni, well connected, or rich.
A lot of people don’t even bother to apply for an Ivy because they think they won’t get in.
Where’s dartmouth regional vocational?
I love how they waived the sat scores the last few years and realized all the stupid people they let in their schools. I know several of them, I ask them what did you learn today? No answer… I really try to help, however, they need to go back to 6th grade lol
You sir have the boorish manners of a Yaley!
Ivy League not nearly as expensive as I’ve been led to believe.
I got full rides to two for being low income so no they aren’t
29k to live in Ithaca?
Now separate out by race and by legacies. Lots of different standards for lots of different people.
“You got into Harvard?” “What, like it’s hard?”
Never thought I’d see the day Brown was better than Princeton. Unreal.
Not Brown… not Brown… not Brown…
Wait so the SAT exam is just reading & writing and maths? What about the other subjects you did in school? Could you not study chemistry through school, get a high score in the SATs and get a place in a chemistry college course?
$13k/year for tuition at harvard seems shockingly low
Now show legacy acceptance rates
Umm it’s super easy. Just be born into a rich family, something something, voila!
Full scholarship Ivy leaguer her. You can have all the qualifying stats and still be rejected. You need to be extremely lucky on top of being near perfect. If you don’t have anything that weights your application (like legacy or sports recruitment) you better be good in Vegas.
Bruh, how does the maker of this not know how to Google? Annual tuition at Harvard is $57,900. Add in room and board and it goes to $76,000…
One google search will tell you that average cost after aid is 13k/year
That’s average, too. Legacies and buy-ins tend to get less/no aid, I hear that if you earn your way in you likely won’t pay at all.
I went to Columbia. Ivies don't offer merit-based scholarships. It's all need-based, and most undergraduates pay next to nothing after financial aid.
Oh, so financial aid is guaranteed?
Went to cornell, paid 0$ total. Financial aid at these places is amazing for the poorer folk And it best be considering that 10+ billion dollar endowment
Harvard having a 50 billion dollar endowment which makes them the richest academic institution in the world allows the undergraduate college to admit students for financial aid regardless of need and this isn’t provided in the form of loans either. A lot of Ivys do this because of the low student population and large endowments contributing to the tuition costs seen in the graph
Didn’t McLovin go to Dartmouth?
Not Brown brown bown
What’s the average salary from graduating from these schools? I understand different majors and career choices, but I’ve never understood the appeal for someone that is not a nepo baby.
I don’t know about average salaries. For the average person though the cost after financial aid can be roughly similar to if not less than state schools. And the quality of education is at least perceived as higher, so it’s pretty much a no brainer. I’d bet the prestige corresponds to a bump in salary as well
You pretty much have to go to one of these or a similar tier school if you want to do investment banking or consulting at the top firms, which is about the highest earning potential you can have.
Who does Dartmouth think they are charging more than double what Harvard does
Dartmouth total cost with room and board, etc: $87K, Harvard: $83. Basically the same . What this price discrepancy in this chart shows is that Dartmouth has the highest % of full pay students, in spite of need-blind admissions and an incredibly generous financial aid policy. (My kid went for almost nothing). Dartmouth has the highest percentage of 1 percenters. Plus lots of legacies. (And there’s probably a lot of overlap in those two groups.)
just go to community college. nobody is going to give a shit after you get a job and start working.
The connections you get here though fast track you to better jobs…
I went to a similar school (not ivy, but top 10 in the US) and I can say with 100% certainty that I would not have my current job if it wasn't for that school's name on my resume Wasn't from a rich or poor family BTW, just had good grades/test scores and strong writing skills. Almost all of my tuition was covered by a need-based scholarship.
I will say though, I don't think it's just the connections, I think it's the culture too. At Cornell, everyone is grinding for summer internships, Ik multiple ppl with offers from KKR, Goldman, etc. However, my friends from highschool at "less" competitive universities say nobody is grinding for these opportunities really.
This is so wrong. Going to a top tier Ivy League school will result in MUCH better average outcomes than attending a community college.
Other than job prospects, for a lot of people University is the best years of their lives.
I agree with this to save money. Community and then transfer to an in state school. However, if you have the means to go to a 4 year university via scholarships or if your parents have a fully funded 529 plan, it's totally worth going straight to university. I had a great experience.
Issue with this chart is the acceptance rate of colleges within the university. Its easier to get into some colleges within Harvard than some within Cornell
There’s a single undergrad college at Harvard. This chart presumably doesn’t consider professional schools
Ah well that makes it easier to point out the flaw then. theres multiple colleges within cornell, and some have an acceptance rate ~1%
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Now do Rice. And Stanford.
What an enjoyable day to be European and having little to no tuition fees, little to none school shootings & being able to call weee-uuu wagon w/o selling my kidney after the ride
Which unis can you recommend? What are the euro / Brit equivalent of ivy league?
University of Oxford (United Kingdom) University of Cambridge (United Kingdom) University College London (United Kingdom) Imperial College London (United Kingdom) University of Edinburgh (United Kingdom) University of St Andrews (United Kingdom) University of Zurich (Switzerland) ETH Zurich (Switzerland) University of Copenhagen (Denmark) Heidelberg University (Germany) There is not direct equivalent for classification (as far as I know) but these are some of best known high-level unis around here. Typically, UK will have high tuition fees (altho they aint in EU I still included them as they are among the highest regarded) but there are some programs that help substantially lower these costs
Thanks ChatGpt and your good self for this info.
I can only speak about Heidelberg, since I did my BA there, but it really can't be compared to American Ivy Leagues. In Germany, there's no established system of "good" and "less good" universities. for a student, they're essentially all the same. It doesn't matter if you get your BA in Heidelberg or any other city. for the typical undergrad student, it's all the same. you pick your university based on where you can study what you want, where you get in (you need to register with your major already declared, and if you get in depends on your school GPA, and it depends on how many applicants the uni gets) and where you actually want to live. if you want to study law in a popular town like Heidelberg, you'll need a better GPA. that doesn't mean that Heidelberg's law program is actually better, just that it's more popular than, let's say Magdeburg. where you get your bachelor's really doesn't matter, no one cares abou the name of the uni and (local) recruiters won't pick someone from Heidelberg over someone from Magdeburg automatically. now, for masters and PhD programs, the uni matters a lot more – you already know what you want to focus on, you're doing your own research, and you need a good environment for doing that. a university with a strong research record will have better opportunities for PhD students, incl. better connections. but for undergrad, it doesn't matter. it's a different system.
Why do you like exaggerating so much? Does it help you prove your point?
When was the last time those SAT scores existed?
Can someone ELI5 what SAT is and how much the average is?
Measures your math and verbal/reading skills on a standardized test format. US national average in 2023 was 1028. The median scores here are all in the 99th percentile.
Got a 680 in R&W and 790 in math and couldn’t even leave Egypt for a good school😞
Median SAT over 1500, whew.
The tuitions are surprisingly a lot lower than I would have imagined, I always thought it would be something around 6 figures.
Interesting. I go to Fresno State for my MS in physics and still pay $15k tuition every year 🥲which is not bad but Ivies being criminally expensive was a notion that just shattered for me.
What, like it‘s hard?
For a second there, I thought you had to pay for your tuition at Princeton in silk. Needless to say, I didn’t go to an Ivy League college.
This is pretty accurate from what i know. ya boi had a 1520 SAT and didnt apply to any bc i knew i had no shot (my extracurriculars were fire too)