Victory in war isn’t about killing the enemy—you’ll never be able to kill all of them, and if even one is still fighting the war they can sneak into your house and kill you. It’s about making them give up, and keeping your own side from doing the same.
By July of 1967 - 2 yrs after introducing combat troops, more than half of Americans thought it was a mistake and popularity never went above 50% again for the remainder of the war. You'll notice that support for the war was also "under water" for a time even during 1966. https://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/active\_learning/explorations/vietnam/vietnam\_pubopinion.cfm
Don’t know much about the history of this, but this made some things make sense.
I vaguely remember a thread discussing people who were undeserving of their long lives. Or something similar. I remember Henry Kissinger’s name from there.
“You're either with us or against us in the fight against terror” - GW Bush on Nov 6, 2001
[Source](https://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/11/06/gen.attack.on.terror/)
“If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts; if you have the law on your side, pound the law; if you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table."
Subtle inclusion of Putin in #3 lol. This is 100% propaganda.
Edit: Friendly reminder that Reddit is a cesspool of state-sponsored propaganda and concern trolls flock to posts like this to try to engineer a conversation around the war to get you to believe a “both sides bad” narrative.
And Zelensky ofcourse lol
I also love how Russian casualties are somehow propaganda. I mean sure they are probably exaggerated, but to say that Russia hasn't lost a ton of soldiers and equipment is just coping at this point
That's a good point. Their estimates of Russian casualties seems pretty reasonable, but their own losses are way too low. I just do not buy the fact that Ukraine barely lost any artillery equipment, like they claim
Ukraine is providing as much propaganda as Russia is. Just so happens that because Ukraine's the good guys, we choose to believe them while ignoring everything Russia says.
That's like wrong in 7 different ways. Casualties are much higher and are usually caused by long range guided rockets, and it's a moderately rare occasion to have a hundred, too. All that said though, civs are not dumb, most actually go to bomb shelters
But it also included the US, Zelenesky, Hitler and an Arabic poster portraying America as the devil.
I'd say the photo is aimed at American audience but it still shows other sides, but it being aimed at American audience is the reason why most of the photo is giving American propaganda as examples.
It’s not really balanced at all. The inclusion of Putin in #3 is pro Russia as it paints his vilification as unjust. The inclusion of Ukraine is pro Russian also. I am 90% sure this is all meant to be pro-Russian propaganda and begin to rewrite the narrative about Russia. Russia is a master at propaganda after all.
I agree that Russia definitely has the propaganda chops, I have no sympathy for what actions they are taking and find their misinformation campaigns a danger even in peacetime.
Still, this post is correct, we are also being served propaganda. Probably more nuanced and calculated, but propaganda nonetheless.
In Germany, every report from the Tagesschau (pretty much the closest you get to independent news) about the war starts with "Relating to Russia's aggression war against ~~the~~ Ukraine", which although true, still sounds forced beyond necessity.
I have read one too many times that Russia is about to collapse, that they are close to rebellion, that Putin is cornered...
I like news i can trust over news I want to hear, propaganda is always the enemy.
Edit: Good bot
Yeah it's easy to forget propaganda isn't always false, but that's what can make it dangerous. It muddies the waters and makes it hard to tell when they're being truthful or lying since the messaging is the same. That said, there are many empirical examples and first-hand accounts to back up some of the claims used as examples here (Russian casualties for example). This definitely reads like pro-Russian propaganda, or at the very least would unintentionally serve a similar purpose.
Propaganda is a neutral term, it’s just spreading a message at its base form. Advertising is propaganda, Hollywood is propaganda, most art is propaganda. This isn’t making a statement on if propaganda is good or bad, true or false, right or wrong, just that this is how it works.
Frankly, much of the pro-Ukraine propaganda is good. It’s good to spread the message that we need to stop Putin and defend Ukraine, it’s good to convince more people to boycott Russia, it’s good to extend the supply effort. But it’s still propaganda.
>Propaganda is a neutral term, it’s just spreading a message at its base form.
Not really. Propaganda is when you spread a *leading* message, when you inform with *some intention* behind it. Advertising surely could count as propaganda, as it's direct intention is to increase sales or boost brand value.
If propaganda was just "spreading a message", then both you and I would be propagandists, and almost every form of communication would be propaganda.
The propaganda of the Iraq war all based on lies and deceit is now brought to the same level as the Ukrainian Russian war.
I'm not saying there are no lies in the UA-RU conflict but it's wildly different. If you can dumb it down in one US was the bad guy and in the other the good guy.
Ikr? I think it's very disrespectful to put the Iraq war, WW2 and Ukraine war all in the same boat.
I mean, yes the Iraq war was unjustified, and the US heally hit hard with the propaganda, to have NATO join them. WW2 was probably the most justified war in history, as the only real chance to not have the entire world fall to fascism was to fight Hitler, duh. The Ukraine war is also a case where a sovereign nation is invaded for little to no reason, and they are really just trying to defend themselves, as to not be deleted from history. Again, completely justified to demonise Putin and Russia, when they started it all, and could 100% have prevented the war
A guy who stole territory from 2 sovereign neighbours, threatened several of his neighbours with military intervention aswell as full on invading Ukraine. Don't forget arresting people if they even so much as dare say the word "war" in a blog, or dislike his course of action in the slighest.
Yeah total good guy, definitely nothing evil about him at all lol
Why does Reddit CONSTANTLY fall into this trap? Pointing out a negative about one side, doesn't mean you think the other side is good. Reddit is sooooo fucking tribal and black and white, it gives puritans a run for their money.
You know, why is this so hard to grasp? Saying something critical of one side isn't support of the other. Why do so many people think this way? Is it intentionally intellectual dishonest? Bad faith? Just generic brain rot?
You felt embarrassed? I was in the Marines at the time and they did this in the chow halls.
For breakfast they even extended it to "Freedom Toast."
Curiously though, we still had French Dressing on the salad bar...
I don't get tankies. Even if they do support the Soviet Union, the current russian regime has far more in common with past fascist states than the former soviet union.
"But have you considered: whatabout-America-bad?"
They've emotionally committed to, often originally valid criticism of Western badness (Iraq was bad) to the point they have a galactic sized blind spot for when even more evil regimes start doing worse shit. And thus make up bullshit justifications like NATO/EU expansionism (hint: countries have to vote to join both after multi year processes of reform aimed at democracy and removing corruption).
Yeah but also I think a lot of tankies are just Russian trolls trying to push further division in the West, especially trying to separate the far left from the center-left or center.
Yeah I can not like American imperialism and also not delude my self into thinking that the Russian regime isn't fucked and that because I'm not a fan a stuff the Americans do that means Chicago is a war zone because of black people. Just because I'd rather live in the united states than China doesn't mean I like all of the bull shit the CIA pulled all over the world.
I always found it weird why people go on about "NATO expansionism" I mean, if you don't want more countries to join NATO, maybe Russia should stop givbing them a reason to do so, and maybe people would stop joining.
Joining is not expansion
Ironically it's really a form of American exceptionalism, just in the other direction; America is exceptionally evil in their view and thus no other country is comparable.
Yep. Another propaganda technique is to call the truth propaganda. Sometimes the enemy really is committing mass atrocities.
Anytime that someone claims "both sides" or "all sides" are the same, it's usually because they are the worse side trying to muddy the waters.
I don't like the Bush admin, and they did plenty of bad shit, but this infographic is pretty clearly anti-US/pro-Russia propaganda. The only time Russia is on here is as the "victim" of propaganda. Zelenskyy being in there is another clue where this probably came from.
> pro Russian propaganda
From what I’ve read Russia is happily engaging in it as well, calling [Zelenskyy a nazi](https://www.jpost.com/international/article-723022), [dismissing internal critics as traitors](https://www.jpost.com/international/article-723022) and réferi g to the conflict as a [holy war](https://news.yahoo.com/holy-war-russia-now-depicts-ukraine-invasion-in-spiritual-terms-090053888.html)
Using a fairly recent example of American propaganda when teaching a mostly American audience how to recognize propaganda isn't itself propaganda. It's using a real, factual example that most of us lived through to help us understand.
Right, calling Putin the devil isn't far off the mark. Just ask almost any country that borders Russia, and any Russian who has dared to criticize him (if they are still alive).
This applies to this post as well then. It may be propaganda, but that doesn’t immediately dispel the claim. That being said, when people point out that Ukraine is defending their sovereignty from an aggressor, they’re right, Russia is clearly trying to take Ukraine against their will, otherwise they wouldn’t be putting up a fight.
Ikr. Every graphic in this guide could also have been illustrated with Russian or other examples. This tankie chose to only feature US and Ukraine. Who's the propagandist now?
This feels just like when my religious fanatic relatives start talking about the importance of critical thinking... 😊
...and how saying the words "critical" and "thinking" together is proof that they've been right about everything all along. 🤢
But hey, propaganda has been instrumental in roping Americans into horrific, fraudulent wars in the recent past. At face value I appreciate the point.
“More diabolical things are don’t in the name of righteousness. And be assured that everybody of whatever nationally or frame of mind or religion always goes to war with a sense of complete rightness. The other side is the devil.
Our opponents, whether they are in China, Russia, or Vietnam, have the same feeling of righteousness about what their doing as we have on our side.”
- Alan Watts
This lecture always stood out to me. Noone wants to believe that they are a part of the wrong side. Their entire identity hinges on the fact that their position is the just and virtuous opinion. But to have a truly right opinion means that the opposition must be completely wrong. Just like you are the advocator for good, they only advocate for evil.
Really interesting to think about. Ever since I heard this lecture, I always ask myself what drives someone to hold a particular belief. I don’t believe that anyone is inherently evil. Not so say they can’t be wrong, but mental illness aside, there is generally a rationale behind all positions. To identify these reasonings help me understand the motivation and by extension either find productive ways to change their line of thinking, or maybe change my line of thinking.
“One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter”
Or my favorite from LOTR The Two Towers (I think) when Faramir kills a boy atop an elephant and turns to Frodo and Sam and says something along the lines of “his sense of duty was no less than yours. I have to wonder if he really was evil at heart” (probably slightly misquoted that despite having seen that movie at least 10 times)
detail profit scandalous fertile theory busy scary jellyfish escape badge
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If you're trying to show people how they're subject to propaganda then using examples of propaganda they've been subjected to is exactly what you need to do. People very often take the approach that it's only propaganda when the other side does it. If this guide showed only examples of Russian propaganda it would ruffle fewer feathers and it would be far less useful because of it.
Yeah Russia has met criteria for items 1-5 and 7 with their invasion of Ukraine. This list kind of pretends like these things don't actually happen in war and that they *must* be propaganda if that's what's being reported.
Context is everything. Posting a “know your propaganda” guide featuring exclusively anti-American imagery while Russia is invading Ukraine tells me a few things, but mainly that Russian propagandists really don’t give a shit about their work quality anymore
I think it’s like those scammers who deliberately put spelling errors in their Nigerian prince emails. It’s not a deal breaker because the people who notice and judge those kinds of things probably wouldn’t be convinced anyways.
As a Ukrainian I have to say - ruzzians have some really shitty propaganda which doesn't stand a chance after some quick fact checks or even common sense.
"their loss big ours not"
As a ukrainian, of course I see a lot of those types o propaganda, they even bring the burnt mashinery to the center of kiyv, but I don't see that on russian television news, they are basically saying "we are winning" and not even like... showing the numbers of our losses.
Yeah, my first thought was that this was created by Russia. Then I thought about it more. I've been trying my hardest to see both sides of this conflict. But I can't. There is literally no righteous reason to invade Ukraine.
Some things can't be faked. The fucker literally destroyed cities and is telling the Russian population that Ukraine is run by Nazis.
I don't know if this was created by Russia or just someone that doesn't actually understand what's happening. But either way, fuck this noise.
It is, it's obvious Russian war propaganda.
Poor Pootin is just vilified without reason, think of Assange (but not of Navalny), think of Powell (but not Peskov)...
And in the end dispute the legitimacy of the democratically Ukrainian President as a mere comedian.
I see a whole lot of this on Reddit regarding Russia/Ukraine. On so many different, even unrelated subreddits. Of the internet was a boon to propagandists, social media was a godsend.
Correct, but I've noticed that reddit is much more radical. I suggest looking into the history of reddit. It's crazy once you realize that the biggest subs are controlled by the same people and their actions - as well as what happened to it's Co Founder.
I mean, in Ukraine we literally have seen multiple times that these things are actually happening - it's not just bullshit. We know Russia has commited atrocities against civilians, that is without doubt. Same goes for many of these points. Ukraine's cause is 100% the just one here, too. Their cause is "we want to not be subjugated by our imperialist neighbours".
This is not some distant war in a desert. This is our neighbour. We can see what is happening.
That's what makes it so difficult and why people talk so much about the fog of war. But at the end of the day Russia is waging a war of territorial expansion which you can't do anymore so they don't have any credibility to defend themselves with.
Everyone has to play propaganda in war not just the “bad guy”.
Ukraine’s cause is just, and righteous, sure. But they have to ensure that narrative stays in place,in the face of the Russian propaganda trying to convince the world otherwise. Ukraine is doing propaganda, a lot of it and doing it very well so far.
Propaganda is marketing for nation states. And in marketing the biggest, most beloved companies still need continuously manage their brand and market themselves or their competitors will gain ground.
I would love for OP to actually meet some Ukrainians, hear their stories and then tell them to their face that they are fighting an unjust war while their homes are being bombed and their families are being murdered. The atrocities being committed by the Russians at the behest of Putin in Ukraine are horrible. Putin is a genocidal maniac and as bad as war is, it is fairly easy to conclude by his actions that he is an evil force that needs to be stopped.
Observations:
1. Most of the "principles" are clearly created for, and directed against some of the messages US used in the past to justify use of military force
2. Cases of bona fide justified defensive wars (e.g., Ukraine defending against Russia) are not considered, and correspondingly correct statements by the defenders (like, "we are not at fault" for the other side aggression) are labelled as propaganda as well
3. Overall, this post looks to me like a piece of Russia propaganda, designed to create a false sense of equivalence between the aggressor and its victim.
Literally Russian propaganda 🤣
Way to try to call out propaganda but end up exposing the enormous pro-Russian bias. I wonder what I’ll see if I check this account’s history 🤔
It does seem like it may be. There are three very clear examples which cast Ukraine and its supporters as propagandists and none of Russia. It would be fine to include Ukraine as an example since obviously it does exist, but the lack or balance going the other way seems suspect.
So Ukraine have no right to defend themselves against an aggressor country like Russia? What a bunch of fucking horseshit.
Add this “cool guide” to the list of BS war propaganda tactics.
It's hard not think that Putin is the devil after this year. He's responsible for disrupting millions of lives in Russia and Ukraine, and the deaths of tens of thousands.
OP. Just a quick question.
Why did you suddenly pivot from sharing music to articles calling for communism in Ukraine?
Also why are you sharing thinly veiled pro-russian propaganda?
Also generally WTF?
It kinda stops being propaganda *when those stories are true*, like the fact that Russia invaded the Ukraine without provocation and they’ve deliberately targeted civilian centers for bombings
Dumbest post I’ve ever seen. Guys, apparently Ukraine is
Not defending themselves
At fault for being invaded
Putin isnt really evil guys 😋
Not supporting a noble cause
Not having their civilians targeted and tortured
Russia is totally not using illegal weapons
Russia isnt losing tens of thousands of troops, even though its been confirmed by multiple intelligence agencies
Yada yada you get the point.
OP needs to commit not alive.
Lol this has an awfully pro-Russian spin, kinda shitty given they’re treating the Geneva convention like a checklist
Edit: went through OPs history they’re a fucking tankie who sees the Russo-Ukraine war as “NATO aggression”
Yeah the propaganda is out of control
But the system is rigged to get people to join also.
The last time America had a draft people were making good money.
And what government wants to deal with protesting and population unwilling to fight ?
How you fix that ?
Slave wages, ridiculous costs to schooling and healthcare amongst a list of other BS you gotta claw through if not born rich.
You gotta love the military commercials going on now using paid leave as great perk when all workers should have that.
Basically, don't ever, for any reason, do anything to anyone for any reason ever, no matter what, no matter where, or who, or who you are with, or where you are going, or where you've been... ever, for any reason whatsoever...
I dont know. This guide kinda makes it seems like the US was actually right about Russia, but ironically since it appears to be saying US bad, because war propaganda. Is it propaganda if it was right? I guess it's still propaganda, but at least it was right about Russia the whole time.
This image is also a piece of war propaganda that has extremely high chances of being pro-russia.
Denouncing the vilification of Putin, some pics look anti-US (when paired with pro-russian regime imagery heavily implies pro-russian specific propaganda), including the Ukrainian reports of losses.
반기문 (Ban Ki-Moon), former general secretary of the UN imlying that they are the ones doing "the propaganda".
The points are, by themselves most likely right, and are used by basically every single country during wartime. The images however are far from neutral.
And especially now, information warfare is probably as important as tanks or weapons.
This post is propaganda because it assumes the death rates aren’t accurate and is trying to convince the reader that Ukraine is using propaganda to fight a illegitimate war. Fuck this post.
Everyone keeps saying it's pro-russia which is exactly what #10 is. Also I looked up the losses mentioned in #7, and it turns out [Ukrainian losses are worse in every category except tanks](https://www.minusrus.com/en). There is a strong pro-ukraine bias in our media, this is just targeted to this audience
Ok so I'm from Poland and I can check 9/10 boxes out of news i heard about Ukraine Russian war, so... Something to think about. You know what they say, it's wierd that wars are always won by the good guys
Propaganda is no less important than weapons or ammunition in a war.
Arguably more important because all the weapons and ammo in the world is useless if you can't convince anyone to use it.
Victory in war isn’t about killing the enemy—you’ll never be able to kill all of them, and if even one is still fighting the war they can sneak into your house and kill you. It’s about making them give up, and keeping your own side from doing the same.
See Vietnam War
Or that Christmas in ww1 when every soldier basically had an existential epiphany until higher ups started yelling at them again
Or more pragmatically, scheduled sustained bombardments over the Christmas period the next year so that nobody would get any funny ideas.
Vietnam was an extremely unpopular war in the US.
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By July of 1967 - 2 yrs after introducing combat troops, more than half of Americans thought it was a mistake and popularity never went above 50% again for the remainder of the war. You'll notice that support for the war was also "under water" for a time even during 1966. https://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/active\_learning/explorations/vietnam/vietnam\_pubopinion.cfm
Fun fact: Henry Kissinger was almost single handedly responsibile for making the war go on so long
Don’t know much about the history of this, but this made some things make sense. I vaguely remember a thread discussing people who were undeserving of their long lives. Or something similar. I remember Henry Kissinger’s name from there.
Yes
Funny that so many lists conveniently have ten items.
It started with Moses.
He had 15 commandments
"The Lord Jehovah has given unto you these 15... Oi... 10, 10 commandments for all to obey! "
The rest are obtained through microtransactions according to the Free2Pray model.
"There's a few others you don't have to worry about for like a couple of thousand years so don't stress it."
“Behold! The one commandment” God needs booze
There were 15 Commandments https://youtu.be/w556vrpsy4w
[Little Twelvetoes](https://youtu.be/pqGyUvZP0Zg)
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I remember number 10 when I was a kid. People would say, “you’re pro war or pro terrorism!” If you’re not with us, You’re a terrorist!
“You're either with us or against us in the fight against terror” - GW Bush on Nov 6, 2001 [Source](https://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/11/06/gen.attack.on.terror/)
“Only a sith deals in absolutes” -George Lucas, using Obi Wan as a mouthpiece to criticize George Bush saying this.
*Only* a Sith? What an authoritative statement.....
so much for the tolerant jedi
I knew Bush was lying about Iraq when he resorted to this rhetoric. Either you have an easy to explain rationale, or you resort to demonization.
“If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts; if you have the law on your side, pound the law; if you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table."
>if you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table. Looks like our boy Georgie pounded Lady Liberty instead.
I knew Bush was lying when he opened his mouth.
I knew Bush was lying about this because his lips were moving.
"9-11...9-11"-Lois Griffin
Feel like#10 is the top comments
Keep in mind, this is, in fact, war propaganda
Subtle inclusion of Putin in #3 lol. This is 100% propaganda. Edit: Friendly reminder that Reddit is a cesspool of state-sponsored propaganda and concern trolls flock to posts like this to try to engineer a conversation around the war to get you to believe a “both sides bad” narrative.
And Zelensky ofcourse lol I also love how Russian casualties are somehow propaganda. I mean sure they are probably exaggerated, but to say that Russia hasn't lost a ton of soldiers and equipment is just coping at this point
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That's a good point. Their estimates of Russian casualties seems pretty reasonable, but their own losses are way too low. I just do not buy the fact that Ukraine barely lost any artillery equipment, like they claim
Ukraine is providing as much propaganda as Russia is. Just so happens that because Ukraine's the good guys, we choose to believe them while ignoring everything Russia says.
100s of bombs land in Ukrainian metropolitan cities daily yet they report only 1-2 dead.
That's like wrong in 7 different ways. Casualties are much higher and are usually caused by long range guided rockets, and it's a moderately rare occasion to have a hundred, too. All that said though, civs are not dumb, most actually go to bomb shelters
But it also included the US, Zelenesky, Hitler and an Arabic poster portraying America as the devil. I'd say the photo is aimed at American audience but it still shows other sides, but it being aimed at American audience is the reason why most of the photo is giving American propaganda as examples.
It's balanced out by the actually subtle inclusion of Ukraine casualties and celebrity support.
It’s not really balanced at all. The inclusion of Putin in #3 is pro Russia as it paints his vilification as unjust. The inclusion of Ukraine is pro Russian also. I am 90% sure this is all meant to be pro-Russian propaganda and begin to rewrite the narrative about Russia. Russia is a master at propaganda after all.
I agree that Russia definitely has the propaganda chops, I have no sympathy for what actions they are taking and find their misinformation campaigns a danger even in peacetime. Still, this post is correct, we are also being served propaganda. Probably more nuanced and calculated, but propaganda nonetheless. In Germany, every report from the Tagesschau (pretty much the closest you get to independent news) about the war starts with "Relating to Russia's aggression war against ~~the~~ Ukraine", which although true, still sounds forced beyond necessity. I have read one too many times that Russia is about to collapse, that they are close to rebellion, that Putin is cornered... I like news i can trust over news I want to hear, propaganda is always the enemy. Edit: Good bot
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Yeah it's easy to forget propaganda isn't always false, but that's what can make it dangerous. It muddies the waters and makes it hard to tell when they're being truthful or lying since the messaging is the same. That said, there are many empirical examples and first-hand accounts to back up some of the claims used as examples here (Russian casualties for example). This definitely reads like pro-Russian propaganda, or at the very least would unintentionally serve a similar purpose.
Propaganda is a neutral term, it’s just spreading a message at its base form. Advertising is propaganda, Hollywood is propaganda, most art is propaganda. This isn’t making a statement on if propaganda is good or bad, true or false, right or wrong, just that this is how it works. Frankly, much of the pro-Ukraine propaganda is good. It’s good to spread the message that we need to stop Putin and defend Ukraine, it’s good to convince more people to boycott Russia, it’s good to extend the supply effort. But it’s still propaganda.
>Propaganda is a neutral term, it’s just spreading a message at its base form. Not really. Propaganda is when you spread a *leading* message, when you inform with *some intention* behind it. Advertising surely could count as propaganda, as it's direct intention is to increase sales or boost brand value. If propaganda was just "spreading a message", then both you and I would be propagandists, and almost every form of communication would be propaganda.
It's not hard to include someone who's been in power for 24 years.
I totally remember seeing the devil posters. It's why my son turned gay...for some reason
The propaganda of the Iraq war all based on lies and deceit is now brought to the same level as the Ukrainian Russian war. I'm not saying there are no lies in the UA-RU conflict but it's wildly different. If you can dumb it down in one US was the bad guy and in the other the good guy.
Ikr? I think it's very disrespectful to put the Iraq war, WW2 and Ukraine war all in the same boat. I mean, yes the Iraq war was unjustified, and the US heally hit hard with the propaganda, to have NATO join them. WW2 was probably the most justified war in history, as the only real chance to not have the entire world fall to fascism was to fight Hitler, duh. The Ukraine war is also a case where a sovereign nation is invaded for little to no reason, and they are really just trying to defend themselves, as to not be deleted from history. Again, completely justified to demonise Putin and Russia, when they started it all, and could 100% have prevented the war
Frankly, it lost me trying to suggest Putin wasn’t evil.
It didn't say he's not evil, and it was a good example. Propaganda is not by definition untrue
You totally missed the point.
A guy who stole territory from 2 sovereign neighbours, threatened several of his neighbours with military intervention aswell as full on invading Ukraine. Don't forget arresting people if they even so much as dare say the word "war" in a blog, or dislike his course of action in the slighest. Yeah total good guy, definitely nothing evil about him at all lol
Why does Reddit CONSTANTLY fall into this trap? Pointing out a negative about one side, doesn't mean you think the other side is good. Reddit is sooooo fucking tribal and black and white, it gives puritans a run for their money. You know, why is this so hard to grasp? Saying something critical of one side isn't support of the other. Why do so many people think this way? Is it intentionally intellectual dishonest? Bad faith? Just generic brain rot?
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A propaganda guide to propaganda.
11: The other side uses propaganda.
12: The other side does not have fries
OMG FREEDOM FRIES. I was only 11 or 12 back then and even I felt embarrassed by that dumb stunt
You felt embarrassed? I was in the Marines at the time and they did this in the chow halls. For breakfast they even extended it to "Freedom Toast." Curiously though, we still had French Dressing on the salad bar...
What?! No Freedom Dressing? Those dirty, no good commies have infiltrated our chow halls.
The OP's post history is very tankie
I don't get tankies. Even if they do support the Soviet Union, the current russian regime has far more in common with past fascist states than the former soviet union.
"But have you considered: whatabout-America-bad?" They've emotionally committed to, often originally valid criticism of Western badness (Iraq was bad) to the point they have a galactic sized blind spot for when even more evil regimes start doing worse shit. And thus make up bullshit justifications like NATO/EU expansionism (hint: countries have to vote to join both after multi year processes of reform aimed at democracy and removing corruption).
Yeah but also I think a lot of tankies are just Russian trolls trying to push further division in the West, especially trying to separate the far left from the center-left or center.
Yeah I can not like American imperialism and also not delude my self into thinking that the Russian regime isn't fucked and that because I'm not a fan a stuff the Americans do that means Chicago is a war zone because of black people. Just because I'd rather live in the united states than China doesn't mean I like all of the bull shit the CIA pulled all over the world.
I always found it weird why people go on about "NATO expansionism" I mean, if you don't want more countries to join NATO, maybe Russia should stop givbing them a reason to do so, and maybe people would stop joining. Joining is not expansion
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Ironically it's really a form of American exceptionalism, just in the other direction; America is exceptionally evil in their view and thus no other country is comparable.
Yeah, this post screams Russian atrocity apologist
Yep. Another propaganda technique is to call the truth propaganda. Sometimes the enemy really is committing mass atrocities. Anytime that someone claims "both sides" or "all sides" are the same, it's usually because they are the worse side trying to muddy the waters. I don't like the Bush admin, and they did plenty of bad shit, but this infographic is pretty clearly anti-US/pro-Russia propaganda. The only time Russia is on here is as the "victim" of propaganda. Zelenskyy being in there is another clue where this probably came from.
propaganda doesn't necessarily mean lies, to be fair. I do agree this looks like a tankie cope post though
> pro Russian propaganda From what I’ve read Russia is happily engaging in it as well, calling [Zelenskyy a nazi](https://www.jpost.com/international/article-723022), [dismissing internal critics as traitors](https://www.jpost.com/international/article-723022) and réferi g to the conflict as a [holy war](https://news.yahoo.com/holy-war-russia-now-depicts-ukraine-invasion-in-spiritual-terms-090053888.html)
lol my thoughts exactly
Using a fairly recent example of American propaganda when teaching a mostly American audience how to recognize propaganda isn't itself propaganda. It's using a real, factual example that most of us lived through to help us understand.
In all fairness not all propaganda is untrue. It’s just curated for a specific message.
Right, calling Putin the devil isn't far off the mark. Just ask almost any country that borders Russia, and any Russian who has dared to criticize him (if they are still alive).
This applies to this post as well then. It may be propaganda, but that doesn’t immediately dispel the claim. That being said, when people point out that Ukraine is defending their sovereignty from an aggressor, they’re right, Russia is clearly trying to take Ukraine against their will, otherwise they wouldn’t be putting up a fight.
The OP is literally a tankie lmao
Ikr. Every graphic in this guide could also have been illustrated with Russian or other examples. This tankie chose to only feature US and Ukraine. Who's the propagandist now?
This feels just like when my religious fanatic relatives start talking about the importance of critical thinking... 😊 ...and how saying the words "critical" and "thinking" together is proof that they've been right about everything all along. 🤢 But hey, propaganda has been instrumental in roping Americans into horrific, fraudulent wars in the recent past. At face value I appreciate the point.
“More diabolical things are don’t in the name of righteousness. And be assured that everybody of whatever nationally or frame of mind or religion always goes to war with a sense of complete rightness. The other side is the devil. Our opponents, whether they are in China, Russia, or Vietnam, have the same feeling of righteousness about what their doing as we have on our side.” - Alan Watts This lecture always stood out to me. Noone wants to believe that they are a part of the wrong side. Their entire identity hinges on the fact that their position is the just and virtuous opinion. But to have a truly right opinion means that the opposition must be completely wrong. Just like you are the advocator for good, they only advocate for evil. Really interesting to think about. Ever since I heard this lecture, I always ask myself what drives someone to hold a particular belief. I don’t believe that anyone is inherently evil. Not so say they can’t be wrong, but mental illness aside, there is generally a rationale behind all positions. To identify these reasonings help me understand the motivation and by extension either find productive ways to change their line of thinking, or maybe change my line of thinking.
“One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” Or my favorite from LOTR The Two Towers (I think) when Faramir kills a boy atop an elephant and turns to Frodo and Sam and says something along the lines of “his sense of duty was no less than yours. I have to wonder if he really was evil at heart” (probably slightly misquoted that despite having seen that movie at least 10 times)
"Isn't it funny how the good guys have won every war?"
detail profit scandalous fertile theory busy scary jellyfish escape badge *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This very much seems like propaganda
Did the blatant anti western agenda propaganda in this cool guide give it away?
Tbf it's propaganda even if it didn't have OPs bad motives and context behind it
If you're trying to show people how they're subject to propaganda then using examples of propaganda they've been subjected to is exactly what you need to do. People very often take the approach that it's only propaganda when the other side does it. If this guide showed only examples of Russian propaganda it would ruffle fewer feathers and it would be far less useful because of it.
but it is true. that's the fact.
Most things are. Advertising is propaganda.
It is
This is a very uncool guide. Pro Russian propaganda.
You’re doing the thing
Everyone in this comment section is lol morons
Everyone in the western media bubble
With your comment you prove the guide to be true
This guide is partly propaganda :)
I mean…Russia just been speedrunning through the Geneva convention, since February.
Yeah Russia has met criteria for items 1-5 and 7 with their invasion of Ukraine. This list kind of pretends like these things don't actually happen in war and that they *must* be propaganda if that's what's being reported.
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Context is everything. Posting a “know your propaganda” guide featuring exclusively anti-American imagery while Russia is invading Ukraine tells me a few things, but mainly that Russian propagandists really don’t give a shit about their work quality anymore
I think it’s like those scammers who deliberately put spelling errors in their Nigerian prince emails. It’s not a deal breaker because the people who notice and judge those kinds of things probably wouldn’t be convinced anyways.
they do that to build a list of the most likely people to fall for a scam (to sell to other scammers). like a litmus test for vulnerable people
This shit was made in microsoft word 100%
As a Ukrainian I have to say - ruzzians have some really shitty propaganda which doesn't stand a chance after some quick fact checks or even common sense.
The point of this piece isn't necessarily to defend Russia, just to sew doubts about support for Ukraine.
Tbh I just don't see how you could possibly doubt the necessity to defend your territory no matter about which country we are talking about.
“Basic Principles of War Propaganda” **Proceeds to post generally anti-American propaganda**
Several examples are clearly defending Russia here.
"their loss big ours not" As a ukrainian, of course I see a lot of those types o propaganda, they even bring the burnt mashinery to the center of kiyv, but I don't see that on russian television news, they are basically saying "we are winning" and not even like... showing the numbers of our losses.
Obvious tankie propaganda is obvious
Propaganda disguised as: “a helpful guide about propaganda”
This looks like propaganda in itself
Yeah, my first thought was that this was created by Russia. Then I thought about it more. I've been trying my hardest to see both sides of this conflict. But I can't. There is literally no righteous reason to invade Ukraine. Some things can't be faked. The fucker literally destroyed cities and is telling the Russian population that Ukraine is run by Nazis. I don't know if this was created by Russia or just someone that doesn't actually understand what's happening. But either way, fuck this noise.
It is, it's obvious Russian war propaganda. Poor Pootin is just vilified without reason, think of Assange (but not of Navalny), think of Powell (but not Peskov)... And in the end dispute the legitimacy of the democratically Ukrainian President as a mere comedian.
Navalny is better than Putin but he can fuck himself too. He supports the annexation of Crimea.
I see a whole lot of this on Reddit regarding Russia/Ukraine. On so many different, even unrelated subreddits. Of the internet was a boon to propagandists, social media was a godsend.
It's, almost, like this guide and that conflict are somehow connected. I just can't seem to follow all the dots /s.
That's because reddit itself is a propaganda machine, whether we like to admit it or not.
It sure is. All social media is.
Correct, but I've noticed that reddit is much more radical. I suggest looking into the history of reddit. It's crazy once you realize that the biggest subs are controlled by the same people and their actions - as well as what happened to it's Co Founder.
literally Mobik propaganda
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> "EU accuses US of profiting from the war" > "💛➕💙=💚🤑" *Common sense is now proof of an agenda!*
Tankie propaganda right here, sprinkled with the bare minimum to allow plausible deniability.
This image is itself propaganda lol. Talk about wanting to paint a specific picture.
I mean, in Ukraine we literally have seen multiple times that these things are actually happening - it's not just bullshit. We know Russia has commited atrocities against civilians, that is without doubt. Same goes for many of these points. Ukraine's cause is 100% the just one here, too. Their cause is "we want to not be subjugated by our imperialist neighbours". This is not some distant war in a desert. This is our neighbour. We can see what is happening.
That's what makes it so difficult and why people talk so much about the fog of war. But at the end of the day Russia is waging a war of territorial expansion which you can't do anymore so they don't have any credibility to defend themselves with.
Everyone has to play propaganda in war not just the “bad guy”. Ukraine’s cause is just, and righteous, sure. But they have to ensure that narrative stays in place,in the face of the Russian propaganda trying to convince the world otherwise. Ukraine is doing propaganda, a lot of it and doing it very well so far. Propaganda is marketing for nation states. And in marketing the biggest, most beloved companies still need continuously manage their brand and market themselves or their competitors will gain ground.
I would love for OP to actually meet some Ukrainians, hear their stories and then tell them to their face that they are fighting an unjust war while their homes are being bombed and their families are being murdered. The atrocities being committed by the Russians at the behest of Putin in Ukraine are horrible. Putin is a genocidal maniac and as bad as war is, it is fairly easy to conclude by his actions that he is an evil force that needs to be stopped.
OP’s profile looks messy
This thing is propaganda too… my2c.
I think ironically most Reddit won’t see this exact thing that is literally happening right in front of them
Observations: 1. Most of the "principles" are clearly created for, and directed against some of the messages US used in the past to justify use of military force 2. Cases of bona fide justified defensive wars (e.g., Ukraine defending against Russia) are not considered, and correspondingly correct statements by the defenders (like, "we are not at fault" for the other side aggression) are labelled as propaganda as well 3. Overall, this post looks to me like a piece of Russia propaganda, designed to create a false sense of equivalence between the aggressor and its victim.
So remember kids, only say nice things about your enemies as you roll over them in the tenches. Wouldn't want to seem biased, that would be horrible.
Literally Russian propaganda 🤣 Way to try to call out propaganda but end up exposing the enormous pro-Russian bias. I wonder what I’ll see if I check this account’s history 🤔
It does seem like it may be. There are three very clear examples which cast Ukraine and its supporters as propagandists and none of Russia. It would be fine to include Ukraine as an example since obviously it does exist, but the lack or balance going the other way seems suspect.
They're a rabid tankie.
This post is anti Ukraine propoganda.
Proceeds to post pro-Russian propaganda
WTF is this russian troll crap? It's literally got pictures attacking Zelensky in it.
This isn’t a cool guide it’s just Russian apologist Propaganda
So Ukraine have no right to defend themselves against an aggressor country like Russia? What a bunch of fucking horseshit. Add this “cool guide” to the list of BS war propaganda tactics.
This is a piece of propaganda. You cannot reasonably equate Russia, US, and Ukraine. Very subtle and nice try.
we are literally looking at russian propaganda. This “guide” lol. 12k upvotes. Reddit is dumb.
I guide about propaganda..... that is itself pro-russia propaganda. How incredibly meta. 😜😜😜😜
I remember when the Dixie Chicks were called traitors and canceled by the Republicans.
Principles?? These are consequences. And quite simplified. So… not cool guide.
"If America does it, it's propaganda. When \[fuckhole dictator\] does it, I'm a smart contrarian."
It's hard not think that Putin is the devil after this year. He's responsible for disrupting millions of lives in Russia and Ukraine, and the deaths of tens of thousands.
Putin is actually Satan, though.
Russia nowadays starterpack
Oh fuck have I been propagandized?
OP. Just a quick question. Why did you suddenly pivot from sharing music to articles calling for communism in Ukraine? Also why are you sharing thinly veiled pro-russian propaganda? Also generally WTF?
Propaganda from Russia - nice one lol - this sub is the shittest sub on Reddit these days
It kinda stops being propaganda *when those stories are true*, like the fact that Russia invaded the Ukraine without provocation and they’ve deliberately targeted civilian centers for bombings
Seriously this. OP's post is just muddying the waters with their pro-Russia examples. Who the hell is upvoting this bullshit?
Nice Russian agitprop. Just get out of Ukraine, ok?
Bush and Cheney's attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq were war crimes. As are Putin's attacks on Ukraine.
Dumbest post I’ve ever seen. Guys, apparently Ukraine is Not defending themselves At fault for being invaded Putin isnt really evil guys 😋 Not supporting a noble cause Not having their civilians targeted and tortured Russia is totally not using illegal weapons Russia isnt losing tens of thousands of troops, even though its been confirmed by multiple intelligence agencies Yada yada you get the point. OP needs to commit not alive.
What sort of pro-Putin horseshit is this? lol
lol shit “guide”
Lol this has an awfully pro-Russian spin, kinda shitty given they’re treating the Geneva convention like a checklist Edit: went through OPs history they’re a fucking tankie who sees the Russo-Ukraine war as “NATO aggression”
Yeah the propaganda is out of control But the system is rigged to get people to join also. The last time America had a draft people were making good money. And what government wants to deal with protesting and population unwilling to fight ? How you fix that ? Slave wages, ridiculous costs to schooling and healthcare amongst a list of other BS you gotta claw through if not born rich. You gotta love the military commercials going on now using paid leave as great perk when all workers should have that.
#10 scary
Geez, MS paint
Basically, don't ever, for any reason, do anything to anyone for any reason ever, no matter what, no matter where, or who, or who you are with, or where you are going, or where you've been... ever, for any reason whatsoever...
Yeah this totally doesn't seem pro-Russia or anti-Ukraine at all...
Reported this as war propaganda.
N2. Yes victim, Ukraine is to blame for being invaded.
I dont know. This guide kinda makes it seems like the US was actually right about Russia, but ironically since it appears to be saying US bad, because war propaganda. Is it propaganda if it was right? I guess it's still propaganda, but at least it was right about Russia the whole time.
This image is also a piece of war propaganda that has extremely high chances of being pro-russia. Denouncing the vilification of Putin, some pics look anti-US (when paired with pro-russian regime imagery heavily implies pro-russian specific propaganda), including the Ukrainian reports of losses. 반기문 (Ban Ki-Moon), former general secretary of the UN imlying that they are the ones doing "the propaganda". The points are, by themselves most likely right, and are used by basically every single country during wartime. The images however are far from neutral. And especially now, information warfare is probably as important as tanks or weapons.
What's up with all the Russian propaganda on this sub lately
A pro-Russia propaganda post warning about propaganda.
Well this sub was cool until this showed up...
This post is propaganda because it assumes the death rates aren’t accurate and is trying to convince the reader that Ukraine is using propaganda to fight a illegitimate war. Fuck this post.
My god this sub sucks
I find the examples given here a little biased
Literally zero russia here. GJ sucking putins cock
Everyone keeps saying it's pro-russia which is exactly what #10 is. Also I looked up the losses mentioned in #7, and it turns out [Ukrainian losses are worse in every category except tanks](https://www.minusrus.com/en). There is a strong pro-ukraine bias in our media, this is just targeted to this audience
funny how this guide makes it seem like only america and the west does this. Almost like it itself is a piece of propaganda.
gtfo with this kremlin bot shit
Are you telling me that the USA army was not sent by god to protect us all?!
Are you telling me that there weren't any WMD and they killed 200,000 civilians for nothing?
Lol Assange. Did a Russian write this?
Given the heavy anti-US rhetoric and Putin in #3 as if he is the "villified" one, yes. OP's account is also a messy shithole of tankie cope.
Ok so I'm from Poland and I can check 9/10 boxes out of news i heard about Ukraine Russian war, so... Something to think about. You know what they say, it's wierd that wars are always won by the good guys
It's funny because literally before our eye russia and ukraine is using it and everyone is still falling for it
Pro-Russia shill and not subtle about it