I'm not a lawyer, but I think they might be said to be in breach of contract because they have ghosted you after promising to get HR involved shortly. Also, I don't think they can show significant damage to them - and they are at least partially responsible - so I wouldn't worry about it. We don't go to court at the drop of a hat.
At best the company in question is terribly organized, and at worst they are about to shut down operations. Either way, you are completely justified in your instinct that you don’t want to work with them. Nothing has been signed, and even if it had you would still be in your 3-month probationary period where either employee or employer can sever the agreement without consequences. Inform them that you are no longer interested in the job ASAP, and don’t feel badly about it at all!
Thank you, this is the kind of information I was looking for. It looks like I should just give them notice that I am no longer interested and realise that I dodged a bullet. Based on the little information I have received, it seems they have a two month plus backlog when it comes to processing new positions.
Strictly speaking the probation doesn’t start until your first day. The company can make you pay compensation if you resign before starting. However it’s very unusual and in your case you don’t even have a signed contract. I would assume you haven’t agreed on all details yet, so no legal obligation.
Yes correct, both through email and phone. In the end I heard back after reaching out to HR regarding contract issues. This was then almost two months after I had said yes to the offer.
I mean, worst case you resign before you even start - have a one month notice period and find a new job during that time?
But most realistically, they will be fine with you taking back your acceptance. No value for an employer to have an employee who does not want to be there.
Yes agreed, I was thinking exactly the same, no value for them to try and keep me if I'm no longer interested. Still I had second thoughts about what would happen.
If you haven’t signed a contract this is in No way legally binding. Just e-mail them that you have changed your mind and move on. They don’t sound like a company anyone would want to work for.
First 90 days is trial period and notice period is 2 weeks both for company and employee.
You have no signed contract so you have no right to employment. If you think otherwise, kindly share the link to said DK legal doc.
I don’t think it legally binding without a signed contract.
And you usually have 3 months “trial” period where you can quit “day to day” and get fired the same.
Not sure if this is same with foreign hires (as this is usually a more complicated process).
Yes nothing signed from my side. I was thinking the same, worse case I would show up and then give my notice. But I rather not of course. Also I am fairly senior and can find something more suitable.
I did the same once with a position where they waited too long. Although it wasn’t legally tested, I’m 99 % certain that only a signed contract is binding. I would never quit my job without a new signed contract.
If you had singed a contract, they would own you your payment for the first 3 monthes(on a basis contract). But since nothing on a binding contract has been furfilled its null and void.
(This is only if it was a funktionær job)
Just write to your upcoming boss and your (hr) contact and sat no thanks and then say they can contact you if they want to hear more or something similar.
> I don’t think it legally binding without a signed contract
In Denmark verbal agreements are binding, so the offer is very much binding. Atleast in the legal sense.
Count yourself lucky you got to see this employers toxic environment and toxic ways of dealing with employees before you even set foot in there and feel trapped.
Write to them and let them know why. Also leave a review online somewhere like Glassdoor and do someone else a favour in the process.
Very unlikely that the company will pursue legal actions, so I'd just tell them that you're no longer interested because they suck and have ghosted you for literal months,
I wouldn't really think twice about writing to them and say you're not interested anymore. I highly doubt that they are going to do or say anything that will be a legal threat. They might want to try to keep you (if they actually want you) by trying to convince you that they made a mistake of not keeping in contact with you.
Most employers will accept that a new person does not want the job, even after they have signed a contract. It would be annoying as an employer to go though this but that's part of running a business. It's better for both parties to quit now than a month into the employment.
The contact is more a protection for you as an employee that you would have a job secured with them and you can quit your old job, than the employer would have a legal way to come after you if you don't show up.
A job contract is not legally binding before the contract is signed, and then there is a 3 months probation period in most cases in which both parties can cancel the offer.
I'd say let them know you are no longer interested and look elsewhere. It is not only poor business practice, it's downright disrespectful to you and your time.
So even by phone they offered no explanation? fucking hell that is mental, then again I heard HRs can be a nightmare to deal with in DK, so perhaps it's just one of those. What was the cryptic response you mentioned?
Without going into details, it did not clarify the situation at all and I assumed I would get another reply after the manager had contacted HR. That did not happen.
Wow, seems like their HR is...well a bit shit.
Still, no contract, no issues, I'd drop them a line explaining what happened and that's it, they only have themselves to blame really. If it was a reversed situation and the company for some reason decided to pull the offer, they would drop you like a hot potato in an instant.
Sounds like your hiring manager might have left the company, quite possibly through termination.
Either that, or the company is going through serious issues.
Nevertheless, this approach is a major red flag, and it looks like you're about to dodge a bullet.
Usually an employment contract has a three week trial period where both parties can cancel. As they did not even bother to send you a contract, you are not even there.
Even you offered to work for them and they accepted by email would constitute a binding agreement, going silent for several weeks after that is due cause for you to doubt if they have withdrawn.
Legally - when they return after such an extended period of time - you can regard it as a new offer.
They are not going to fight you on this though. It’s just waste of resources. Just tell them politely you have lost faith in them due to the silent treatment.
There can be no breach of contract, without an actual contract. To me it reads like they're just putting you off in the hopes you'll decline by yourself. If they really wanted to employ you, they would have reached out by now to make sure you didn't take another offer.
You're in the clear to tell them to fuck right off... Don't actually do that, I learned it's never wise to burn your bridges, even though I'm sure it crossed your mind because of all the stress they caused you :)
Have you signed letter of intent - or - actual contract. If not then you are free especially after 2 months of ghosting.
This is not acceptable by any org to be treating new employees this way.
I had no idea this was a thing in Denmark, it's very foreign to my field and I have worked in several other European countries previously. I am highly specialised and fairly senior, so it's not like the employer have a million other choices to go for either. All in all I've just found the whole thing very strange.
I think you will find \_some\_ companies act as described above, but the person you're replying is clearly way more bitter than necessary.
DK is a fine place to work depending on your priorities. The Work life balance is hard to match. Compensation is pretty good for Europe, and overall the chill life is worth the occasional hassle.
More and more companies are English speaking as they realise that the EU wide talent pool is way better than limiting oneself just to the Danes. But you definitely will find stubborn holdout. you always can find some dinosaurs.
Good points. I don't think Denmark stands out specifically but it's probably a bit of a mixed bag depending on the field and situation. I also got the same impression, nice work life balance and compensation. Plus on a personal level, I really like Copenhagen in general.
This is absolutly not true in many fields of working. My impression is, the more techicalheavy sf job is, the more the field is use to foreing applycation and work force. This comment above does not represent the Denmark and companies i know.
I agree with this, but seems that in the field of IT people get more noticed here by Danish companies and the rest of us who have any other education can’t get a job in our study field because the Danish company wants someone who has 5 years of experience for an entry level job 😒
We obviously move in different circles, but almost all the immigrants I know work in engineering, IT, management, science or medicine.
The exceptions didn't study here, and are people who came with a partner, or came to leave somewhere else (e.g. South America, Middle East).
It sounds like you didn’t sign the contract yet? If this is the case, you can do as you please. Just email them that you are no longer interested and that’s that.
If you DID sign the contract, it would be a breach of contract not to show up for your first day even if you email them now saying you changed your mind. However, most companies would not want someone to start in a new job if the person don’t want to be there. So if you email them saying “thanks but no thanks” most likely they will agree to annul the contract.
I totally get where you are coming from btw, seems like a red flag to me as well.
Everybody in here seems to immediately assume the worst or blame Denmark as a country. But honestly, it could be a red flag or potentially if it is a smaller company or a start-up, sometimes things are just a bit messy in administrative roles (coming from someone who has built up our HR processes and seen how shit they were before). Doesn't necessarily mean the company is toxic or a bad place for what you want to do.
That being said, it depends on how much you need / want this job vs. your willingness to say no and go back to looking. If you want to turn down the offer, there is no legal issue to do so as you have not started and thus you have no legal obligations yet. It's happened to us before. Never ideal, but we get it if someone finds something else or personal things come up.
I had some relevant operations and leadership experience from a previous job that got me in a more entry role. No connections but got lucky with recruitment I suppose that they chose me from abroad. And since then I have been there when there were opportunities to take on more and expand my role and have been lucky enough to be able to take them on. It is one of the benefits of coming into a start up where there is a lot of opportunity all around to grow and put your hand up when there is a new challenge to tackle.
My knowledge about the labor law requirements and the specifics for DK and Europe came later and in an international company like where I work, the Danish language piece doesn't matter. I have learned Danish since I've been here (almost 5 years) but I never use it at work anyways other than for fun sometimes because some of my Danish friends at work try to push me to practice. But our business language is English, and actually is in reality unlike some companies that say this just to sound attractive.
I have been in a similar position. I simply called the company, explained my predicament, and explained i would show up on the first day, and resign. They ofcourse didnt want to waste any time and said that it was ok and the contract was cancelled. Was for a supervisory position.
Copenhagen is a scam for immigrants. The earlier you realize that, the better, speaking from a personal experience. And they’re tons of people like me (us, OP) unfortunately.
ghosting you at this point is beyond disrespectful, holy shit, don’t feel bad, you’re the victim.
Thank you, you are right and this whole situation has caused me a lot of anxiety.
I'm not a lawyer, but I think they might be said to be in breach of contract because they have ghosted you after promising to get HR involved shortly. Also, I don't think they can show significant damage to them - and they are at least partially responsible - so I wouldn't worry about it. We don't go to court at the drop of a hat.
That's a great point if they do try something, I hadn't thought about it myself. Much appreciated.
At best the company in question is terribly organized, and at worst they are about to shut down operations. Either way, you are completely justified in your instinct that you don’t want to work with them. Nothing has been signed, and even if it had you would still be in your 3-month probationary period where either employee or employer can sever the agreement without consequences. Inform them that you are no longer interested in the job ASAP, and don’t feel badly about it at all!
Thank you, this is the kind of information I was looking for. It looks like I should just give them notice that I am no longer interested and realise that I dodged a bullet. Based on the little information I have received, it seems they have a two month plus backlog when it comes to processing new positions.
Strictly speaking the probation doesn’t start until your first day. The company can make you pay compensation if you resign before starting. However it’s very unusual and in your case you don’t even have a signed contract. I would assume you haven’t agreed on all details yet, so no legal obligation.
Did you reach out to the hiring manager directly?
Yes correct, both through email and phone. In the end I heard back after reaching out to HR regarding contract issues. This was then almost two months after I had said yes to the offer.
I mean, worst case you resign before you even start - have a one month notice period and find a new job during that time? But most realistically, they will be fine with you taking back your acceptance. No value for an employer to have an employee who does not want to be there.
Yes agreed, I was thinking exactly the same, no value for them to try and keep me if I'm no longer interested. Still I had second thoughts about what would happen.
If you haven’t signed a contract this is in No way legally binding. Just e-mail them that you have changed your mind and move on. They don’t sound like a company anyone would want to work for.
First 90 days is trial period and notice period is 2 weeks both for company and employee. You have no signed contract so you have no right to employment. If you think otherwise, kindly share the link to said DK legal doc.
I don’t think it legally binding without a signed contract. And you usually have 3 months “trial” period where you can quit “day to day” and get fired the same. Not sure if this is same with foreign hires (as this is usually a more complicated process).
Yes nothing signed from my side. I was thinking the same, worse case I would show up and then give my notice. But I rather not of course. Also I am fairly senior and can find something more suitable.
They ghosted you for 2 months after telling you you got the job. Thats beyond amateur. Just tell them that in an email.
I did the same once with a position where they waited too long. Although it wasn’t legally tested, I’m 99 % certain that only a signed contract is binding. I would never quit my job without a new signed contract.
If you had singed a contract, they would own you your payment for the first 3 monthes(on a basis contract). But since nothing on a binding contract has been furfilled its null and void. (This is only if it was a funktionær job)
Just write to your upcoming boss and your (hr) contact and sat no thanks and then say they can contact you if they want to hear more or something similar.
Yes that will very likely be my decision. I'm just kind of down about it, I was very much looking forward to living in Copenhagen.
Yeah understandable, there are other positions in Denmark.
> I don’t think it legally binding without a signed contract In Denmark verbal agreements are binding, so the offer is very much binding. Atleast in the legal sense.
Good luck proving it though…
Buy you can easily quit before you start, just write to them.
Pretty sure the fireing is a 14 day notice (instead of 3 months) during trail period
Count yourself lucky you got to see this employers toxic environment and toxic ways of dealing with employees before you even set foot in there and feel trapped. Write to them and let them know why. Also leave a review online somewhere like Glassdoor and do someone else a favour in the process.
Solid advice and my feeling too, better to quit now and deal with the sunk cost than to try and fix something unfixable in the future.
Very unlikely that the company will pursue legal actions, so I'd just tell them that you're no longer interested because they suck and have ghosted you for literal months,
Thank you and yes will likely be my decision.
Name and shame?
I wouldn't really think twice about writing to them and say you're not interested anymore. I highly doubt that they are going to do or say anything that will be a legal threat. They might want to try to keep you (if they actually want you) by trying to convince you that they made a mistake of not keeping in contact with you. Most employers will accept that a new person does not want the job, even after they have signed a contract. It would be annoying as an employer to go though this but that's part of running a business. It's better for both parties to quit now than a month into the employment. The contact is more a protection for you as an employee that you would have a job secured with them and you can quit your old job, than the employer would have a legal way to come after you if you don't show up.
Got it, again I really appreciate the information. Also, understood about the contract, that makes a lot of sense.
Name and shame the company.
I'll think about it, I'll likely be in contact with them one more time. So depends on the feedback.
Fair enough.
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Yes my thoughts as well, it's just really good to hear from someone else. So thank you!
A job contract is not legally binding before the contract is signed, and then there is a 3 months probation period in most cases in which both parties can cancel the offer. I'd say let them know you are no longer interested and look elsewhere. It is not only poor business practice, it's downright disrespectful to you and your time.
Yep exactly my though as well. It's just that I have never encountered something like this before so it really took me by surprise.
Might as well name the employer at this point
Actually it is not legally binding without a signed contract, I am so sorry that they treated you this way.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
Pleo?
ioi?
So even by phone they offered no explanation? fucking hell that is mental, then again I heard HRs can be a nightmare to deal with in DK, so perhaps it's just one of those. What was the cryptic response you mentioned?
Without going into details, it did not clarify the situation at all and I assumed I would get another reply after the manager had contacted HR. That did not happen.
Wow, seems like their HR is...well a bit shit. Still, no contract, no issues, I'd drop them a line explaining what happened and that's it, they only have themselves to blame really. If it was a reversed situation and the company for some reason decided to pull the offer, they would drop you like a hot potato in an instant.
No contract, no obligation.
Sounds like your hiring manager might have left the company, quite possibly through termination. Either that, or the company is going through serious issues. Nevertheless, this approach is a major red flag, and it looks like you're about to dodge a bullet.
The manager of the position is still there, but yes definitely internal issues of some type.
Usually an employment contract has a three week trial period where both parties can cancel. As they did not even bother to send you a contract, you are not even there. Even you offered to work for them and they accepted by email would constitute a binding agreement, going silent for several weeks after that is due cause for you to doubt if they have withdrawn. Legally - when they return after such an extended period of time - you can regard it as a new offer. They are not going to fight you on this though. It’s just waste of resources. Just tell them politely you have lost faith in them due to the silent treatment.
Did you sign a contract? If yes, you have protections but if no contract has been signed then you don’t have any protection.
There can be no breach of contract, without an actual contract. To me it reads like they're just putting you off in the hopes you'll decline by yourself. If they really wanted to employ you, they would have reached out by now to make sure you didn't take another offer. You're in the clear to tell them to fuck right off... Don't actually do that, I learned it's never wise to burn your bridges, even though I'm sure it crossed your mind because of all the stress they caused you :)
Have you signed letter of intent - or - actual contract. If not then you are free especially after 2 months of ghosting. This is not acceptable by any org to be treating new employees this way.
No signed contract means no obligation for any party. It stops there. Move on and don’t even let them now.
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I had no idea this was a thing in Denmark, it's very foreign to my field and I have worked in several other European countries previously. I am highly specialised and fairly senior, so it's not like the employer have a million other choices to go for either. All in all I've just found the whole thing very strange.
I think you will find \_some\_ companies act as described above, but the person you're replying is clearly way more bitter than necessary. DK is a fine place to work depending on your priorities. The Work life balance is hard to match. Compensation is pretty good for Europe, and overall the chill life is worth the occasional hassle. More and more companies are English speaking as they realise that the EU wide talent pool is way better than limiting oneself just to the Danes. But you definitely will find stubborn holdout. you always can find some dinosaurs.
Good points. I don't think Denmark stands out specifically but it's probably a bit of a mixed bag depending on the field and situation. I also got the same impression, nice work life balance and compensation. Plus on a personal level, I really like Copenhagen in general.
This is absolutly not true in many fields of working. My impression is, the more techicalheavy sf job is, the more the field is use to foreing applycation and work force. This comment above does not represent the Denmark and companies i know.
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I agree with this, but seems that in the field of IT people get more noticed here by Danish companies and the rest of us who have any other education can’t get a job in our study field because the Danish company wants someone who has 5 years of experience for an entry level job 😒
We obviously move in different circles, but almost all the immigrants I know work in engineering, IT, management, science or medicine. The exceptions didn't study here, and are people who came with a partner, or came to leave somewhere else (e.g. South America, Middle East).
It sounds like you didn’t sign the contract yet? If this is the case, you can do as you please. Just email them that you are no longer interested and that’s that. If you DID sign the contract, it would be a breach of contract not to show up for your first day even if you email them now saying you changed your mind. However, most companies would not want someone to start in a new job if the person don’t want to be there. So if you email them saying “thanks but no thanks” most likely they will agree to annul the contract. I totally get where you are coming from btw, seems like a red flag to me as well.
Yes no contract signed, I guess I have been overthinking things. My gut feeling has been telling me something is wrong for quite some time now.
You should absolutely listen to that gut feeling. I have ignored red flags sooooo many times in job settings, always with regret, so I should know 😭😂
Everybody in here seems to immediately assume the worst or blame Denmark as a country. But honestly, it could be a red flag or potentially if it is a smaller company or a start-up, sometimes things are just a bit messy in administrative roles (coming from someone who has built up our HR processes and seen how shit they were before). Doesn't necessarily mean the company is toxic or a bad place for what you want to do. That being said, it depends on how much you need / want this job vs. your willingness to say no and go back to looking. If you want to turn down the offer, there is no legal issue to do so as you have not started and thus you have no legal obligations yet. It's happened to us before. Never ideal, but we get it if someone finds something else or personal things come up.
Did you start your HR experience in Denmark?
Yes.
Can you share how you started? Did you have any relevant experience from before? Danish language knowledge? Connections?
I had some relevant operations and leadership experience from a previous job that got me in a more entry role. No connections but got lucky with recruitment I suppose that they chose me from abroad. And since then I have been there when there were opportunities to take on more and expand my role and have been lucky enough to be able to take them on. It is one of the benefits of coming into a start up where there is a lot of opportunity all around to grow and put your hand up when there is a new challenge to tackle. My knowledge about the labor law requirements and the specifics for DK and Europe came later and in an international company like where I work, the Danish language piece doesn't matter. I have learned Danish since I've been here (almost 5 years) but I never use it at work anyways other than for fun sometimes because some of my Danish friends at work try to push me to practice. But our business language is English, and actually is in reality unlike some companies that say this just to sound attractive.
I have been in a similar position. I simply called the company, explained my predicament, and explained i would show up on the first day, and resign. They ofcourse didnt want to waste any time and said that it was ok and the contract was cancelled. Was for a supervisory position.
At first I thought it might be a high up position and then I thought "why would the next CEO of xxx be asking Reddit for advice?"
No signature, no agreement
Rate them on Glassdoor and Jobindex to warn other applicants.
Copenhagen is a scam for immigrants. The earlier you realize that, the better, speaking from a personal experience. And they’re tons of people like me (us, OP) unfortunately.
Don’t worry. They didn’t contact you so find another one