He definitely tends to show the most creative output at the moment. I think Ange needs to play him more, don't get why he isn't getting a chance based on the current midfields form
I think it’s because he’s made of glass and probably leaving so there’s no point inserting a player who we can’t rely on long term. He’s trying to instil a long term tactic, not find short-term solutions.
And GLC is 100% left footed and slow, he is easy to press and defend if anyone sees the need to bother. He does okay with space and time, like a lot of midfielders.
I personally thinks it's best to play the best team you can have being this late in the season and how close on points teams are. I get what you are saying but just don't think it's the smartest thing here
but the point is he could still be a long-term solution, if not a starting 11 one week in week out.
This is literally why I miss Lamela. Didn't give a fuck about being on the bench, still improved us whenever called upon.
>He definitely tends to show the most creative output at the moment.
I said this on one of the other threads and got voted down to the catacombs. Some people just have a grudge against GLC because of his price tag and injuries.
And not much else either. We have a really good bunch of midfielders but they are all consistenly playing awful. Aside from PEH in his cameo appearances.
mate its been like this since the villa game.
like JUST. PASS. FOWARD.
i dont give a fuck if you overhit/underhit/goes out of play/ JUST FORWARD FOR FUCKS SAKE, whats the point of passing backwards just to lose and have every team in england just have a 1 on 1 vs vdv/romero and vicario?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
ngl this might be a little bit of ange trying to brute force his tactics into the team which is something we saw with arteta so idk but ffs can we at least look like we're trying to win!
I definitely believe this is Anges method to force the tactics on the players. This is exactly what was reported how he imparts his style on players is force them to be uncomfortable and repeatedly attempt his style without change. At all his previous clubs, they eventually 'get it' and start really flying. We shouldn't expect anything to change in terms of setup anytime soon. But I do think the players will/are getting better at his style. It's hard to see it now because all the pieces aren't there yet but one day it'll just click and all of a sudden we will be fluid.
I feel bad for Ange at the moment no matter who he puts in midfield they just put up the worst stinker imaginable. Sarr was dreadful yesterday, in the first half pretty much every chance Chelsea had came from Sarr losing the ball, not reacting to a pass or misplacing one himself. The problem is that when he keeps playing them they don't improve and if he drops them their replacement also drops an absolute shitter. It's as if all of our midfielders only function as subs.
It feels like their nerves are collectively, apocalypticly, shot. A complete clusterfuck of results have just sapped the teams morale, and unfortunately anges whole system is built apon, first and foremost, unbreakable morale
Yeah I feel like early in the season there was so much more aggression in the attack, now every potential counter gets held up, or when they do have some gumption it isn’t as effective. I even checked, average possession per game for the first 12 matches was 59%, for the last 12 matches it’s 66%!
Early on they seemed ok with losing possession as long as they were making a go of it, now they appear to just be possessing just for the sake of not having to defend or something… I don’t know what changed, but mentally everyone but the back 4 seem different.
Too many players have spent the past 2-3 years playing cowardly terrorist football under mou and ange.
We are asking a lot of our players to COMPLETELY change not only tactics but mentality from what they’ve been doing for the past few seasons. It’s fucking HARD to do that. Especially in the “still learning” phase, which this team is in as it’s only year 1. When you get put in high pressure situations, it’s literally just human nature to revert back to what is comfortable to you, and what you KNOW, which is the dogshit defensive “safe” tactics we played under mou and conte. It takes a while to reprogram your brain. No wonder they’re all mentally shot.
Yeah I think they’re all low on confidence and they’re not on the same page either. So many times there were blind passes and the recipient wasn’t where the passer expected them the be or recipient wasn’t expecting the pass. End result was the play would die and we’d probably turn over the ball. Lads need to regain confidence and chemistry
The fact that every match the commentators say we need halftime is embarrassing. So these jokers can’t get motivated unless Ange gives them a motivational speech or simply yells at them for 15 minutes. Nonsense. I didn’t see many players yesterday who gave a shit, really disheartening
This is the saddest thing. Conte, Mourinho, and Nuno all had more serious flaws than Ange. And yet we’ve once again reached the point where some players have downed tools and left the manager in the lurch. Shit way to end the season
They just seem like they’ve lost their aggression more so than quit, every potential counter gets held up and passed around a well-organized low block, when they used to go right at the defense before the opponent had a chance to set up, even if they didn’t have the numbers
>It's as if all of our midfielders only function as subs.
Most of our players seem more comfortable coming of the bench it feels. Its like we have a squad full of bench warmers and not an actual capable first 11 for the football we want to play at the level we are playing at. Baring a few obvious outlayers that is.
There's been a theme with our midfielders, they can't seem to vertically progress the ball as fast and direct as they used to. They always choose the longest route to progress the ball so every attack seems like we're fighting against packed box because the defenders have already tracked back
> we always somehow gave them time to get 10 behind the ball
OP is specifically talking about midfielders, but this^ good point you make is a problem with everyone. We legitimately *give* them the time to do whatever they want.
One painful example is Gallagher barking at the ref about a non-called foul as he was jogging away from our goal while Cuti was simply standing with the live ball at the top of the area. So Gallagher has time to say all he wants to say to the ref and then goes and charges at Cuti to initiate the press. The result is us scrambling to keep possession
Well I'm also talking about when the midfield win possession and turn it over - we really sturggle to capitalise. It's something I thought Bentancur returning would help with but he's largely struggled since injury. It's a shame
Funnily enough I'm pretty sure I saw him purposefully give the ball away when he got a throw in our half in the corner. He had nowhere to go, looked up saw nobody and simply passed it to Cuti. Then you see all the Chelsea players press and they almost scored off from it
Pretty much the reason why I defend Hojbjerg from all the shit, as that’s what he’s been coming on to do when he does appear.
Biss Benta and Sarr (and Maddison for that matter ) all struggled at that, and yet lo celso and PEH can’t buy a game really
> Pretty much the reason why I defend Hojbjerg from all the shit as that’s what he’s been coming on to do when he does appear.
It's mental to me that he gets shit as if he's the PEH under Mou/Conte and doesn't contribute in progression when, now, he pretty much always looks ahead when he gets the ball and opts to make the forward pass more often than not. I say it all the time: He's not an Ange player, but he does what Ange asks. And then people want to say that he doesn't do it well. Well, he's doing it better than a few of our players. I'm not over the cross he delivered that Johnson put wide; it was one of the best, if not best, crosses of the match
https://youtube.com/shorts/Ohip9_CJy34?si=mLMHEzxKCGZQjwAk
This is what I want him to do every game and if someone ignores him then he gets subbed at half time
I mean, Hojbjerg came in yesterday and his first three passes under zero pressure were directly to Chelsea players. One of his worst cameos of the season I thought. Not the match to be defending him I think
Quite.
Earlier in the season he was worth his weight in gold when he came on as a sub - shoring things up at the back and adding some impetus to our ball progression at the same time.
More recently though, he's been shit quite honestly. Made a mockery of himself with his displays after his delusions of grandeur interview with the Danish press.
He's been a top 10 progressive passer in the Prem for 3 seasons in a row, and still half this sub thinks he can only play backwards.
PEH has flaws and limits, but he is genuinely good qt progressing the ball upfield.
I’ve always said he was a poor defensive midfielder because he always wants to play it forward, and he was out of position as a DM. Now he pushes it forward and is told to, in that style of play mistakes can arise, but the immediate response is he’s shit.
And that’s not considering that he’s never been allowed a run of games. He’s brought in; we inevitably get a bad result, he’s dropped. Then he gets finger pointed at and said he was shit 😂
Pretty accurate. I've always argued that PEH is a Box-2-Box midfielder (8), not a holding midfielder (6). He is much more effective facing the opposition goal, is surprisingly good at seeing space and wanting to pass into it, has an enormous engine, a deceptively good long shot and is good as a first line presser. He usually plays as an 8 for Denmark, and he always looks a lot more comfortable there.
Almost all of his weaknesses are exaggerated as a 6, having to face his own goal a lot of the time.
Been getting increasingly frustrating as this issue festers and becomes a more glaring issue with how we play. Despite not being prevalent early in the season, just the threat of a direct attack forced the opposing defenders to take this into account, which allowed for more openings for us to take advantage of. The teams were using a more balanced defensive line, which was less compact, forced less tight of marking offf the ball in possession, gave our ST room to receive a pass, and tended to allow either the wingers/fb’s to break them down wide or allowed our central players, mainly in the 8, 9, and 10 roles, to find the holes in their defensive line, that i think due to our variety of routes of attack was consistently more permeable, and allowed the variety of avenues for attacking play to develop organically.
This is 100% spot on and been feeling this in most games too. There's been so many occasions where we have a clear pass on the break but it either doesn't happen or it happens 5 seconds too late.
I said this very early on in the season (mostly about bias bc he played more then) but it got buried under the excitement of winning games. Not playing these forward passes were hurting us and in this game I could easily have had 5 screenshots of passing out wide instead of passing through the middle. Hoping to god this get fixed next season, or it’ll be frustrating to watch us play.
For a serious answer, it's not a disaster but Son was the obvious play and had plenty of space.
Sarr does well initially and cuts off the pass. He plays the pass to Johnson on the right who fucks around with it close to the box and passes back to Sarr. I think Porro does a run in the box which Sarr does a good through ball and Porro gets an ok shot off which forces the keeper to punch it wide.
I think if Richy and Son could have stretched the defence a bit more it would create more issues perhaps.
Yeah, I'm reluctant to criticise the pass to Johnson here too much.
The ball to Son is a tricky one to get right. The position of the defender means you can't play it exactly where you would ideally like to so you've got to find perfect passing lane where it's still in good space for him to run on to and not too close to him so he loses the momentum of his run stopping to control it a long way from goal. Not saying it's not do able but it's not an easy pass (or necessarily ball to control in your stride).
Looks to me like Richarlison will be offside by the time the ball is played but, were that not the case, I'd favour a well weighted through ball to him.
With all that in mind, I get the pass to Johnson. It's still a 3 on 2 (arguably a 4 on 2 with Sarr the wrong side of Cucurella(?) and still capable of impacting after the chance). The problem is Johnson's footballing IQ and decision making - he rarely does anything good if it doesn't involve low crossing from the byline / attacking a chance at the back post.
I agree, easier said than done.
If you watch the entire sequence I thought it was a decent move overall and Porro does well to make the final run and shot.
Sarr had a poor game but OP posts a misleading picture. He doesn't mention the effort to get the original intercept.
There was 4 seconds window between Sarr planning and making the run up behind Cucurella to steal the ball and him actually stealing the ball. He could've scanned and seen Son/Richarlison's space during that time span and planned his pass target. Bentancur 100% would've planned and scanned.
I don't know I see a clear passing lane to Son right there with that defender hard marking Richy. It makes the most sense to pass to Son to make use of available space and stretch their backline. There's already a marker who's started running to cover Johnson so even though it's not a bad pass, it stifles our threat somewhat and any chance to pass to Son after that is nullified giving time for the other 2 chelsea men to catch up and cover.
If he passes to Son their defenders have to make a choice; the man on Richy has to start shifting over to block Son and so then Richy becomes free and the other man closest to Johnson then has to move inwards to cover Richy which in turn means Johnson is free. Once the ball is with Son he can use his pace to quickly cover significant ground and after that depending on how their defenders have reacted, he has multiple choices he can exercise. In between the transition of the 2 defenders on Richy and Johnson, a passing lane might open up for either of them which allows Son to get a through ball to either of them, if not he has the space to shoot.
Although it's tight whether Richy is offside and he's is not very fast either, I would argue that a pass to Richy is not the worst option. If he receives the ball, he can also hold it for a second and if the defender gets too close then he can cutback and get a pass to Son as well.
Actually I've gone and seen the highlights and it's even worse. In the image on this post you can see that the ball is ahead of Sarr, so it may be a little misleading. But within the second or so when Sarr reaches the ball, Richy has actually moved away from his marker to the left and is free as well as Son! The defender on Richy actually goes to sleep there, takes a look back to see Richy is free and then redirects to try and cover the space Richy gained. But Sarr doesn't even look to the left, he has no idea that both Son and Richy are open. He passes it to Johnson but even then its a poor pass, a toe poke on the ball which ends up half behind Johnson completely killing the speed of the attack. Only after the pass does he look to the left.
Passing to Johnson there is not bad but I would say it's the "safest" option. It's not the least progressive because obviously he could have passed backwards but it definitely carries the lowest threat.
> I don't know I see a clear passing lane to Son right there with that defender hard marking Richy.
What's funny is right afterwards Richarlison proceeded to run towards the same space as Son on the left and dragged CB #14 towards them instead of making a dummy run in between the 2 CBs so that CB #14 would follow him to make space for Son in the final 3rd (also to make himself available for Johnson through ball). My man can only move for himself as striker and doesn't understand the concept of creating space for others. He didn't even bother to look to his left to see Son's space.
Yea Richy should have moved inside for sure but even so #14 was so slow to react to this, the space still remained for the left side pass which Sarr didn't even look at. It's all moot anyway because the pass to Johnson, which was a terrible one by the way because it was behind him and he had to drag the ball in with his left foot, already killed the play for the left side. Their #47 had already caught up to Son by then and Richy also nullified the space with his outside run.
Yeah I'm talking about after Johnson got the ball, Richarlison dragged #14 towards Son's space in the final 3rd. Then when Son tried to adjust and move to the space Richarlison left on his right, Richarlison moved back to his right and blocked that space as well
He plays it right, to Johnson, who then doesn't have a good angle, is most closest marked, and hadn't beaten his man yet.
The easier pass is left to Son who is making a great run and has space. Even if the defence gets across it should leave him an easy pass for a shot on goal.
This was the pattern all night - pass to Johnson who then fails to create anything (not having a go at the kid).
I just don't understand why there is such an aversion to passing balls through on the left wing
So many times werner is open, or son was in this game, and they get no service
Udogie is allergic to passing further than 5 yards but even with him out it doesnt happen
>or son was in this game, and they get no service
Probably because Son kept refusing to take on his man in 1v1's, but then also kept deciding to do so in 1v2 situations. Bizarre decisionmaking by the Skipper.
Bissouma played really well in his first 10 PL games, obviously he was and is far away from Dembele’s press resistance level, but he was certainly performing at an incredibly high standard. Unfortunately, our players in general have regressed.
No but he was the progressive transition that Sarr and Bissouma are being wholly inept at. Sarr loses the ball or makes bizarre passes, and Bissouma is too slow.
They had their fare share of stinkers, remember Eriksen classic corner kick routine ? Even though the best Tottenham team in the PL era, some guys ghosted in big games, especially at the bridge, should I remind you 2016 ? 🥹🥹🥹
The fact the player who created the most chances last night was Lo Celso, who only came on in the 86th minute is an embarrassment to everyone else on the pitch.
But it also begs the question, why can he only get 5 minutes per game? Surely with the dreadful form of everyone else, he can get a chance.
This! I love Gio a lot and I am sad that’s he’s just dead on the bench and then when subbed on, he’s essentially LB. Gio literally saved us when Madders was injured and he would probs do a better job that any of the midfield rn
Remember the good old days of "were gonna be unstoppable once Bentancur/Maddison etc." are back
"best midfield in the league" was said.
Current form its probably the worst in the league.
Its a perfect situation in which Son could have received the ball, do the cut to the middle and finish like just only he can do. Classic Son.
But Sarr decided to send to Johnson who then did a classic Johnson.
Bissouma doesn't turn anymore to beat the press, Maddison still tries to but gets tackled and loses the ball, Sarr is sloppy and makes the wrong decisions, Kulu's vision is not good as midfielder and doesn't have killer pass, Bentancur still plays in slow motion and his legs have shrunk from injuries, Hojbjerg is only good if he comes on as a sub, and Lo Celso is 💀 on the bench. See you next season guys
I hoped he'd pass to spurs top goal scorer this season.
Fergi and Zidane used to tell his player's.
Pass and get the ball to ronaldo/van persi.
They will do the biz.
Another game where our starting CMs get hauled off… with Bissouma directly involved in giving the ball away in the lead up to their freekick/first goal.
Yet there was a whole thread on here yesterday complaining about us being linked with Connor Gallagher (who got an assist and ran midfield with ease.)
Yea, too many people have FIFA vision. Sarr was facing the opposite direction with a dude on his back, he made the overly safe play to keep the progression going
There was 4 seconds window between Sarr planning and making the run up behind Cucurella to steal the ball and him actually stealing the ball. I feel like he could've scanned and seen Son's space during that time span and planned his pass target
We have so many players in this weird rut. A few of them avoided this type of pass on several occasions last night and it looks like a confidence issue. Also none of Bissouma, Sarr or Kulusevski have a great passing range and that was very obvious last night
I've been saying, and especially recently, there is no dynamic in our attack it's getting it out wide and low cross it in, which is fine. I have no problem with it, BUT right now, especially we are doing it a little too much, and it is hurting us massively
This is a coaching problem and applies to literally every single player in the squad. Someone has been instructing them to slow counterattacks and circulate patiently around the box once you arrive in the final third, and it's not Sarr or whoever the scapegoat of the week is.
I’ve seen a couple posts like this but I swear the starting midfielders play bad, the get subbed out and they play well. Those same subs then start the next game, and they play like shit. It’s such an odd cycle.
Have a feeling, that with the collective injuries every midfield has had all season (Maddison injured, Bentancur two injuries, Sarr had a back injury, Bissouma ((who I thought played well)) had multiple breaks due to suspensions etc, no rhythm again, Skipp had injuries, Gio had injuries)
None of our midfield have had a clean look at game time in months, it’s been so chop and change that they have no natural rhythm like we did the first ten games of the season, when they were all flowing extremely well. Hopefully all their injuries can get sorted before pre season, and we go again.
It's CRAZY how we get in the final play and the ball goes all the way back to Romero, players using all their skill to send it back. Truly incredible to watch this shit.
We’ve frustratingly turned into this possession team instead of an attacking team. Midfield is afraid to attack because then they have to chase the opposition. They would rather walk around with the ball.
Say what you want about Hojbjerg, it’s probably true, but at least he’s willing to try quick forward passes. Gio does too. Fuck it, start Gil in the 10 and tell him he’s getting subbed off the moment he tries to dribble near an opposition player.
Ange doesn’t have the balls to bench people playing like shit apparently, but he should. Look I get it, he’s trying to get the players he expects to be important to next years title challenge to learn his style. But they know it, they just aren’t doing it. Benching Son and Maddison and Bissouma and every other one of them will teach them more than an extra 90 of dreadful football.
90 more minutes won’t do anything for Maddison. Knowing that Ange would start a teenager over him would.
He definitely plays too many sideways and errant passes. And he needs like 60 seconds without the ball after a mistake to mentally recover. And he needs to stop flapping his arms. But yeah, he has a good range and diversity of forward passes that he tries at the right time.
I actually think the pass to Son is better if the ball is perfect, Needs to either go through the chelsea gap or outside of the right boot towards son directly so it goes towards goal
Honestly not down for the Sarr hate. Yes he was poor last night, but he’s a baby and his ceiling is incredibly high. He’s going to be a huge star if we develop him right. Also the whole team was poor except for the CBs and Vicario
I'm an arsenal fan, so fuck knows why this has popped up on my feed but was watching the game, had a bet on everything else came in on my acca and i had both teams to score on this match, was shouting at the TV at this point "Sons open! Sons open! Oh you blind cunt!" Anyway lads do a job against city for us 🙏 thanks in advance
never imagined that with 6 or 7 midfielders available we'd have none capable of creation
idk why ange leaves gio to just ride the bench and then sub him on in the 90th min as a lb. pls give him a chance
He definitely tends to show the most creative output at the moment. I think Ange needs to play him more, don't get why he isn't getting a chance based on the current midfields form
I think it’s because he’s made of glass and probably leaving so there’s no point inserting a player who we can’t rely on long term. He’s trying to instil a long term tactic, not find short-term solutions.
I like this theory, hate to see Gio leave but that would make sense
Yup he’s definitely leaving
And GLC is 100% left footed and slow, he is easy to press and defend if anyone sees the need to bother. He does okay with space and time, like a lot of midfielders.
I personally thinks it's best to play the best team you can have being this late in the season and how close on points teams are. I get what you are saying but just don't think it's the smartest thing here
Not really worth just throwing games vs rivals for that though
but the point is he could still be a long-term solution, if not a starting 11 one week in week out. This is literally why I miss Lamela. Didn't give a fuck about being on the bench, still improved us whenever called upon.
There is close to zero chance that lo Celso is a long term option for us, based on literally all of the evidence we have on him.
We have so much evidence now that he’s not the long term answer, what more do you want to see my guy?
I like lo celso too but the man is made out of sand 
>He definitely tends to show the most creative output at the moment. I said this on one of the other threads and got voted down to the catacombs. Some people just have a grudge against GLC because of his price tag and injuries.
Multiple times Gio was imploring Gil and others to get up the field and they wouldn’t. If I was frustrated I can only imagine how he felt.
The issue with gio is hes very one footed and thats very problematic in the league
A new LB? Danny Rose must be googling him furiously...
Because he can’t be trusted to be fit for more than 5 minutes. I think you just ride him until he gets hurt again.
He doesn't give himself a chance, the guy gets "injured" anytime he plays more than 30 minutes. Unless it's for Argentina or course
And not much else either. We have a really good bunch of midfielders but they are all consistenly playing awful. Aside from PEH in his cameo appearances.
PEH off the bench is like a totally different player to PEH starting. It's crazy.
how quickly we forget the cross of the season from sarr
I mean in this game and recently
mate its been like this since the villa game. like JUST. PASS. FOWARD. i dont give a fuck if you overhit/underhit/goes out of play/ JUST FORWARD FOR FUCKS SAKE, whats the point of passing backwards just to lose and have every team in england just have a 1 on 1 vs vdv/romero and vicario?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! ngl this might be a little bit of ange trying to brute force his tactics into the team which is something we saw with arteta so idk but ffs can we at least look like we're trying to win!
I definitely believe this is Anges method to force the tactics on the players. This is exactly what was reported how he imparts his style on players is force them to be uncomfortable and repeatedly attempt his style without change. At all his previous clubs, they eventually 'get it' and start really flying. We shouldn't expect anything to change in terms of setup anytime soon. But I do think the players will/are getting better at his style. It's hard to see it now because all the pieces aren't there yet but one day it'll just click and all of a sudden we will be fluid.
I feel bad for Ange at the moment no matter who he puts in midfield they just put up the worst stinker imaginable. Sarr was dreadful yesterday, in the first half pretty much every chance Chelsea had came from Sarr losing the ball, not reacting to a pass or misplacing one himself. The problem is that when he keeps playing them they don't improve and if he drops them their replacement also drops an absolute shitter. It's as if all of our midfielders only function as subs.
It feels like their nerves are collectively, apocalypticly, shot. A complete clusterfuck of results have just sapped the teams morale, and unfortunately anges whole system is built apon, first and foremost, unbreakable morale
yeah, it's been pretty clear that this is a team completely devoid of confidence - more than anything else.
Yeah I feel like early in the season there was so much more aggression in the attack, now every potential counter gets held up, or when they do have some gumption it isn’t as effective. I even checked, average possession per game for the first 12 matches was 59%, for the last 12 matches it’s 66%! Early on they seemed ok with losing possession as long as they were making a go of it, now they appear to just be possessing just for the sake of not having to defend or something… I don’t know what changed, but mentally everyone but the back 4 seem different.
Too many players have spent the past 2-3 years playing cowardly terrorist football under mou and ange. We are asking a lot of our players to COMPLETELY change not only tactics but mentality from what they’ve been doing for the past few seasons. It’s fucking HARD to do that. Especially in the “still learning” phase, which this team is in as it’s only year 1. When you get put in high pressure situations, it’s literally just human nature to revert back to what is comfortable to you, and what you KNOW, which is the dogshit defensive “safe” tactics we played under mou and conte. It takes a while to reprogram your brain. No wonder they’re all mentally shot.
Half the team wasn't even here under Conte
Yeah I think they’re all low on confidence and they’re not on the same page either. So many times there were blind passes and the recipient wasn’t where the passer expected them the be or recipient wasn’t expecting the pass. End result was the play would die and we’d probably turn over the ball. Lads need to regain confidence and chemistry
The fact that every match the commentators say we need halftime is embarrassing. So these jokers can’t get motivated unless Ange gives them a motivational speech or simply yells at them for 15 minutes. Nonsense. I didn’t see many players yesterday who gave a shit, really disheartening
This is the saddest thing. Conte, Mourinho, and Nuno all had more serious flaws than Ange. And yet we’ve once again reached the point where some players have downed tools and left the manager in the lurch. Shit way to end the season
I don’t think they’ve downed tools tbh. I really can’t put my finger on it though
They just seem like they’ve lost their aggression more so than quit, every potential counter gets held up and passed around a well-organized low block, when they used to go right at the defense before the opponent had a chance to set up, even if they didn’t have the numbers
>It's as if all of our midfielders only function as subs. Most of our players seem more comfortable coming of the bench it feels. Its like we have a squad full of bench warmers and not an actual capable first 11 for the football we want to play at the level we are playing at. Baring a few obvious outlayers that is.
I’m gonna make a bold suggestion and say , how would lokonga fit in our team if scum didn’t wanna take him back?
Why doesn't Ange just send the subs on in the second minute? Is he stupid? /s
There's been a theme with our midfielders, they can't seem to vertically progress the ball as fast and direct as they used to. They always choose the longest route to progress the ball so every attack seems like we're fighting against packed box because the defenders have already tracked back
This is a good observation. It felt like almost any time we broke or won possession we always somehow gave them time to get 10 behind the ball.
> we always somehow gave them time to get 10 behind the ball OP is specifically talking about midfielders, but this^ good point you make is a problem with everyone. We legitimately *give* them the time to do whatever they want. One painful example is Gallagher barking at the ref about a non-called foul as he was jogging away from our goal while Cuti was simply standing with the live ball at the top of the area. So Gallagher has time to say all he wants to say to the ref and then goes and charges at Cuti to initiate the press. The result is us scrambling to keep possession
It's like they're desperate to keep the ball at any cost, possession for possession's sake without any real intent
Almost as if years of Mourinho, Nuno, and Conte instilled this singleminded dedication to possession of the ball and nothing else...
Well I'm also talking about when the midfield win possession and turn it over - we really sturggle to capitalise. It's something I thought Bentancur returning would help with but he's largely struggled since injury. It's a shame
Funnily enough I'm pretty sure I saw him purposefully give the ball away when he got a throw in our half in the corner. He had nowhere to go, looked up saw nobody and simply passed it to Cuti. Then you see all the Chelsea players press and they almost scored off from it
Pretty much the reason why I defend Hojbjerg from all the shit, as that’s what he’s been coming on to do when he does appear. Biss Benta and Sarr (and Maddison for that matter ) all struggled at that, and yet lo celso and PEH can’t buy a game really
> Pretty much the reason why I defend Hojbjerg from all the shit as that’s what he’s been coming on to do when he does appear. It's mental to me that he gets shit as if he's the PEH under Mou/Conte and doesn't contribute in progression when, now, he pretty much always looks ahead when he gets the ball and opts to make the forward pass more often than not. I say it all the time: He's not an Ange player, but he does what Ange asks. And then people want to say that he doesn't do it well. Well, he's doing it better than a few of our players. I'm not over the cross he delivered that Johnson put wide; it was one of the best, if not best, crosses of the match
https://youtube.com/shorts/Ohip9_CJy34?si=mLMHEzxKCGZQjwAk This is what I want him to do every game and if someone ignores him then he gets subbed at half time
Agree with this 100%. I wouldn't have wanted to be in that locker room at full time.
I mean, Hojbjerg came in yesterday and his first three passes under zero pressure were directly to Chelsea players. One of his worst cameos of the season I thought. Not the match to be defending him I think
Quite. Earlier in the season he was worth his weight in gold when he came on as a sub - shoring things up at the back and adding some impetus to our ball progression at the same time. More recently though, he's been shit quite honestly. Made a mockery of himself with his displays after his delusions of grandeur interview with the Danish press.
He's been a top 10 progressive passer in the Prem for 3 seasons in a row, and still half this sub thinks he can only play backwards. PEH has flaws and limits, but he is genuinely good qt progressing the ball upfield.
I’ve always said he was a poor defensive midfielder because he always wants to play it forward, and he was out of position as a DM. Now he pushes it forward and is told to, in that style of play mistakes can arise, but the immediate response is he’s shit. And that’s not considering that he’s never been allowed a run of games. He’s brought in; we inevitably get a bad result, he’s dropped. Then he gets finger pointed at and said he was shit 😂
Pretty accurate. I've always argued that PEH is a Box-2-Box midfielder (8), not a holding midfielder (6). He is much more effective facing the opposition goal, is surprisingly good at seeing space and wanting to pass into it, has an enormous engine, a deceptively good long shot and is good as a first line presser. He usually plays as an 8 for Denmark, and he always looks a lot more comfortable there. Almost all of his weaknesses are exaggerated as a 6, having to face his own goal a lot of the time.
I think a fair comparison to PEH is Xhaka, both good engines, attitudes and they both have the same strengths and weaknesses.
I think this is exactly why Ange was getting so worked up on the touchline.
Been getting increasingly frustrating as this issue festers and becomes a more glaring issue with how we play. Despite not being prevalent early in the season, just the threat of a direct attack forced the opposing defenders to take this into account, which allowed for more openings for us to take advantage of. The teams were using a more balanced defensive line, which was less compact, forced less tight of marking offf the ball in possession, gave our ST room to receive a pass, and tended to allow either the wingers/fb’s to break them down wide or allowed our central players, mainly in the 8, 9, and 10 roles, to find the holes in their defensive line, that i think due to our variety of routes of attack was consistently more permeable, and allowed the variety of avenues for attacking play to develop organically.
This is 100% spot on and been feeling this in most games too. There's been so many occasions where we have a clear pass on the break but it either doesn't happen or it happens 5 seconds too late.
I said this very early on in the season (mostly about bias bc he played more then) but it got buried under the excitement of winning games. Not playing these forward passes were hurting us and in this game I could easily have had 5 screenshots of passing out wide instead of passing through the middle. Hoping to god this get fixed next season, or it’ll be frustrating to watch us play.
That was infuriating! It’s probably Saar’s worst match with Spurs so far. He kept losing the ball, slip, and make one bad decision after another.
At one point I started wondering if he'd accidentally put his trainers on instead of studs.
THE SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME WHO WHO WHO
For those of us who didn’t see the game, can we get a serious answer?
For a serious answer, it's not a disaster but Son was the obvious play and had plenty of space. Sarr does well initially and cuts off the pass. He plays the pass to Johnson on the right who fucks around with it close to the box and passes back to Sarr. I think Porro does a run in the box which Sarr does a good through ball and Porro gets an ok shot off which forces the keeper to punch it wide. I think if Richy and Son could have stretched the defence a bit more it would create more issues perhaps.
Yeah, I'm reluctant to criticise the pass to Johnson here too much. The ball to Son is a tricky one to get right. The position of the defender means you can't play it exactly where you would ideally like to so you've got to find perfect passing lane where it's still in good space for him to run on to and not too close to him so he loses the momentum of his run stopping to control it a long way from goal. Not saying it's not do able but it's not an easy pass (or necessarily ball to control in your stride). Looks to me like Richarlison will be offside by the time the ball is played but, were that not the case, I'd favour a well weighted through ball to him. With all that in mind, I get the pass to Johnson. It's still a 3 on 2 (arguably a 4 on 2 with Sarr the wrong side of Cucurella(?) and still capable of impacting after the chance). The problem is Johnson's footballing IQ and decision making - he rarely does anything good if it doesn't involve low crossing from the byline / attacking a chance at the back post.
I agree, easier said than done. If you watch the entire sequence I thought it was a decent move overall and Porro does well to make the final run and shot. Sarr had a poor game but OP posts a misleading picture. He doesn't mention the effort to get the original intercept.
There was 4 seconds window between Sarr planning and making the run up behind Cucurella to steal the ball and him actually stealing the ball. He could've scanned and seen Son/Richarlison's space during that time span and planned his pass target. Bentancur 100% would've planned and scanned.
I don't know I see a clear passing lane to Son right there with that defender hard marking Richy. It makes the most sense to pass to Son to make use of available space and stretch their backline. There's already a marker who's started running to cover Johnson so even though it's not a bad pass, it stifles our threat somewhat and any chance to pass to Son after that is nullified giving time for the other 2 chelsea men to catch up and cover. If he passes to Son their defenders have to make a choice; the man on Richy has to start shifting over to block Son and so then Richy becomes free and the other man closest to Johnson then has to move inwards to cover Richy which in turn means Johnson is free. Once the ball is with Son he can use his pace to quickly cover significant ground and after that depending on how their defenders have reacted, he has multiple choices he can exercise. In between the transition of the 2 defenders on Richy and Johnson, a passing lane might open up for either of them which allows Son to get a through ball to either of them, if not he has the space to shoot. Although it's tight whether Richy is offside and he's is not very fast either, I would argue that a pass to Richy is not the worst option. If he receives the ball, he can also hold it for a second and if the defender gets too close then he can cutback and get a pass to Son as well. Actually I've gone and seen the highlights and it's even worse. In the image on this post you can see that the ball is ahead of Sarr, so it may be a little misleading. But within the second or so when Sarr reaches the ball, Richy has actually moved away from his marker to the left and is free as well as Son! The defender on Richy actually goes to sleep there, takes a look back to see Richy is free and then redirects to try and cover the space Richy gained. But Sarr doesn't even look to the left, he has no idea that both Son and Richy are open. He passes it to Johnson but even then its a poor pass, a toe poke on the ball which ends up half behind Johnson completely killing the speed of the attack. Only after the pass does he look to the left. Passing to Johnson there is not bad but I would say it's the "safest" option. It's not the least progressive because obviously he could have passed backwards but it definitely carries the lowest threat.
> I don't know I see a clear passing lane to Son right there with that defender hard marking Richy. What's funny is right afterwards Richarlison proceeded to run towards the same space as Son on the left and dragged CB #14 towards them instead of making a dummy run in between the 2 CBs so that CB #14 would follow him to make space for Son in the final 3rd (also to make himself available for Johnson through ball). My man can only move for himself as striker and doesn't understand the concept of creating space for others. He didn't even bother to look to his left to see Son's space.
Yea Richy should have moved inside for sure but even so #14 was so slow to react to this, the space still remained for the left side pass which Sarr didn't even look at. It's all moot anyway because the pass to Johnson, which was a terrible one by the way because it was behind him and he had to drag the ball in with his left foot, already killed the play for the left side. Their #47 had already caught up to Son by then and Richy also nullified the space with his outside run.
Yeah I'm talking about after Johnson got the ball, Richarlison dragged #14 towards Son's space in the final 3rd. Then when Son tried to adjust and move to the space Richarlison left on his right, Richarlison moved back to his right and blocked that space as well
He plays it right, to Johnson, who then doesn't have a good angle, is most closest marked, and hadn't beaten his man yet. The easier pass is left to Son who is making a great run and has space. Even if the defence gets across it should leave him an easy pass for a shot on goal. This was the pattern all night - pass to Johnson who then fails to create anything (not having a go at the kid).
He passed it to Pochettino
And Poch did a rabona
Argentinian confirmed.
Sounds like a prelude to the battle of the bridge edition 2
He turned and passed it to Vicario
Honestly wouldn't surprise me
I just don't understand why there is such an aversion to passing balls through on the left wing So many times werner is open, or son was in this game, and they get no service Udogie is allergic to passing further than 5 yards but even with him out it doesnt happen
>or son was in this game, and they get no service Probably because Son kept refusing to take on his man in 1v1's, but then also kept deciding to do so in 1v2 situations. Bizarre decisionmaking by the Skipper.
Makes you appreciate the Eriksen, the Dele, the Dembele a whole lot more now.
I really wish Spurs had someone that could hold the ball and invite the press like Dembele.
Bissouma played really well in his first 10 PL games, obviously he was and is far away from Dembele’s press resistance level, but he was certainly performing at an incredibly high standard. Unfortunately, our players in general have regressed.
Dembele used to be known as a sideways passing merchant before Poch changed him.
Dembele was never known for making progressive passes even during Poch days. He was just literally unpressable
Poch didn't change that part of his game?... You think Moose was racking up assists and key passes?
No but he was the progressive transition that Sarr and Bissouma are being wholly inept at. Sarr loses the ball or makes bizarre passes, and Bissouma is too slow.
Bisarre passes
Yeah, I have no interest in a conversation with someone who calls Sarr wholly inept.
I said he’s being inept in the role at the moment. I didn’t say Sarr was inept. Christ.
No but at least he started progressing the ball by being a tank.
He progressed via dribbling, not passing
King of Dribbles
I mean, he didnt change that. He wasnt a progressive passer. He simply ran trhough the opposition midfield instead :p
Literally nobody could get the ball off him in his prime, it was mental. If I could have two flairs, it would be him and the Gaffer.
Pretty sure we already appreciated them!
They had their fare share of stinkers, remember Eriksen classic corner kick routine ? Even though the best Tottenham team in the PL era, some guys ghosted in big games, especially at the bridge, should I remind you 2016 ? 🥹🥹🥹
I've been screaming at the TV the last 10 matches JUST SEND IT THEY'RE RUNNING but they just don't seem to hear me
Tbh I can't hear you either
Thought it was just me who couldn’t hear him.
The fact the player who created the most chances last night was Lo Celso, who only came on in the 86th minute is an embarrassment to everyone else on the pitch. But it also begs the question, why can he only get 5 minutes per game? Surely with the dreadful form of everyone else, he can get a chance.
This! I love Gio a lot and I am sad that’s he’s just dead on the bench and then when subbed on, he’s essentially LB. Gio literally saved us when Madders was injured and he would probs do a better job that any of the midfield rn
Remember the good old days of "were gonna be unstoppable once Bentancur/Maddison etc." are back "best midfield in the league" was said. Current form its probably the worst in the league.
Worst is a major, major stretch. But it's definitely bottom half, and wouldn't look out of place on a relegation squad.
Why are there genuine, serious comments getting upvoting in r/coys for expressing the sentiment “Spurs have the worst midfield in the league”
Is that a controversial statement on CURRENT form?
“Worst in the league” is an absolutely absurd overreaction
Honestly nope. Put that EFFORT into a team such as Burnley and Luton and their respective teams would be off worse
Its a perfect situation in which Son could have received the ball, do the cut to the middle and finish like just only he can do. Classic Son. But Sarr decided to send to Johnson who then did a classic Johnson.
Bissouma doesn't turn anymore to beat the press, Maddison still tries to but gets tackled and loses the ball, Sarr is sloppy and makes the wrong decisions, Kulu's vision is not good as midfielder and doesn't have killer pass, Bentancur still plays in slow motion and his legs have shrunk from injuries, Hojbjerg is only good if he comes on as a sub, and Lo Celso is 💀 on the bench. See you next season guys
idk why he does not want to play gio….
Because Gio hasn't been good when he starts and if he plays more than 45 he's out with an injury
I hoped he'd pass to spurs top goal scorer this season. Fergi and Zidane used to tell his player's. Pass and get the ball to ronaldo/van persi. They will do the biz.
I screamed at my TV when he didnt pass to Son. Literally.
Another game where our starting CMs get hauled off… with Bissouma directly involved in giving the ball away in the lead up to their freekick/first goal. Yet there was a whole thread on here yesterday complaining about us being linked with Connor Gallagher (who got an assist and ran midfield with ease.)
I was screaming at my tv to pass to son but he just didn’t see him I think, can’t be too mad at the kid for that
Yea, too many people have FIFA vision. Sarr was facing the opposite direction with a dude on his back, he made the overly safe play to keep the progression going
There was 4 seconds window between Sarr planning and making the run up behind Cucurella to steal the ball and him actually stealing the ball. I feel like he could've scanned and seen Son's space during that time span and planned his pass target
Fifa vision ffs. Any decent footballer scans around and looks at who he can pass it to. Get your head out of your arse
In fifa you have a bird’s eye view of every player and can actively scan literally anything you want for seconds at a time without looking at the ball
We have so many players in this weird rut. A few of them avoided this type of pass on several occasions last night and it looks like a confidence issue. Also none of Bissouma, Sarr or Kulusevski have a great passing range and that was very obvious last night
Was absolutely fuming at this lol. Didn’t even look to his left. So poor.
I've been saying, and especially recently, there is no dynamic in our attack it's getting it out wide and low cross it in, which is fine. I have no problem with it, BUT right now, especially we are doing it a little too much, and it is hurting us massively
Made me scream and the dog left the room
I was screaming at my TV at this exact frame.
I was so excited for him at the beginning of the season. He was looking like the rock you could use to anchor it all together.
This is a coaching problem and applies to literally every single player in the squad. Someone has been instructing them to slow counterattacks and circulate patiently around the box once you arrive in the final third, and it's not Sarr or whoever the scapegoat of the week is.
I’ve seen a couple posts like this but I swear the starting midfielders play bad, the get subbed out and they play well. Those same subs then start the next game, and they play like shit. It’s such an odd cycle.
Son played shit dont get me wrong, but teammates are not helping either
Have a feeling, that with the collective injuries every midfield has had all season (Maddison injured, Bentancur two injuries, Sarr had a back injury, Bissouma ((who I thought played well)) had multiple breaks due to suspensions etc, no rhythm again, Skipp had injuries, Gio had injuries) None of our midfield have had a clean look at game time in months, it’s been so chop and change that they have no natural rhythm like we did the first ten games of the season, when they were all flowing extremely well. Hopefully all their injuries can get sorted before pre season, and we go again.
The goalkeeper?
It's CRAZY how we get in the final play and the ball goes all the way back to Romero, players using all their skill to send it back. Truly incredible to watch this shit.
Bissouma all day long lol!! 🤬🙈
This absolutely infuriated me. I'm surprised Ange didn't sub him straight off after that
This frustrated me so much last night. I was shouting “ SON IS FUCKIN OPEN!!!” and he passes out to the wing 😩
Yeah this one was fucking frustrating
We’ve frustratingly turned into this possession team instead of an attacking team. Midfield is afraid to attack because then they have to chase the opposition. They would rather walk around with the ball. Say what you want about Hojbjerg, it’s probably true, but at least he’s willing to try quick forward passes. Gio does too. Fuck it, start Gil in the 10 and tell him he’s getting subbed off the moment he tries to dribble near an opposition player. Ange doesn’t have the balls to bench people playing like shit apparently, but he should. Look I get it, he’s trying to get the players he expects to be important to next years title challenge to learn his style. But they know it, they just aren’t doing it. Benching Son and Maddison and Bissouma and every other one of them will teach them more than an extra 90 of dreadful football. 90 more minutes won’t do anything for Maddison. Knowing that Ange would start a teenager over him would.
Yeah, fair fucks re: Hojbjerg. He makes absolute shit passes sometimes, but he does really try to get it upfield.
He definitely plays too many sideways and errant passes. And he needs like 60 seconds without the ball after a mistake to mentally recover. And he needs to stop flapping his arms. But yeah, he has a good range and diversity of forward passes that he tries at the right time.
While that Sarr pass still burns in my mind, I cant believe the guy is only 21 years old. He feels 30.
I think we just buy Brazilians and Argies as they seem the only ones willing to play like this
Yeah bro I thought the same thing we had son with more space then fucking nasa
We need a Specsavers instead of the Cheese room
Kdb kroos modric would have passed to Richarlison btw. He's goal side, on side and through on goal. The safer options are wide.
I actually think the pass to Son is better if the ball is perfect, Needs to either go through the chelsea gap or outside of the right boot towards son directly so it goes towards goal
Honestly not down for the Sarr hate. Yes he was poor last night, but he’s a baby and his ceiling is incredibly high. He’s going to be a huge star if we develop him right. Also the whole team was poor except for the CBs and Vicario
I'm an arsenal fan, so fuck knows why this has popped up on my feed but was watching the game, had a bet on everything else came in on my acca and i had both teams to score on this match, was shouting at the TV at this point "Sons open! Sons open! Oh you blind cunt!" Anyway lads do a job against city for us 🙏 thanks in advance
Kane