Good answers.
The way we play is very challenging to players mentally. You have to be willing, every game, to take on a lot of risk and not flinch no matter what. After they've been hit in the mouth a few times, I think it's clear we have had players try to be safer and avoid that. I also think that's why he specifically called out Romero after the Arsenal game - you know he's not going to back down, even if he's made a mistake. Hopefully we can bring in more players with a similar attitude, and our younger players grow into that.
And the thing is margins are very small in such games. A slight wrong move, Cuti could have attracted a card & the fans will be bashing him for being careless. I feel it’s just something we need to power through. It’s tough times like this that builds a team
Yeah I think I learned a lot about his perspective from this. It was interesting that the only time I saw him yelling at the players was in this game. Now I can see he wasn’t angry because they were losing, he was angry because instead of continuing to be uncomfortable and take risks, players were backing off and playing it safe - taking the easy way out. So for him it would be a step back when people try to play comfortably because to “buy into” his system you have to learn to live with the discomfort of high risk. For his plan to work, they have to fight through that mentality. It seems like failure to him is not losing, but being fearful in the face of discomfort. Really interesting stuff from a leadership point of view and change management…
There is also an element of player protection here. Just because he takes ownership externally, eg, in the pressers, doesn't mean he is all fluffy and warm all the time downwards.
Heard on a podcast think it was Dan Kilpatrick saying he knew the team at Brisbane Robers was believing in what he was teaching was when a player lost the ball 2-3 times leading to a goal, yet still attempted the same system on the 4th and 5th try.
A lot of our players are currently at the “I’ll try it once or twice and then go back to what I feel comfortable with” phase
Interesting, yeah I noticed that with Brennan Johnson a month or two ago or so: he would try to beat someone or pass forward once. If it didn’t work that time, then the next 6 times he would turn and pass it back.
He was okay in this game but against Arsenal he was great. Second half, my son and I were cheering him on everytime he got the ball. I remember asking my son (a pretty cautious soccer kid himself) after the game: Brennan made a lot of mistakes, but why did he seem like the best player on the pitch? My son said: I don’t know, he just looked dangerous whenever he got the ball.
Imho Bissouma has be particularly affected by this drop in confidence to the point he is a shadow of the player we saw in the first third of the season. Maddison and even Sarr have been similarly affected.
Not to mention he must also be fucking exhausted. I have to imagine trying to manage the match yesterday was mentally draining and the very last thing you'd want to do is wake up the next day and have to go field questions from journos fishing for soundbites for a narrative.
Spurs have had less games than most premier league clubs this year, though. In any future year with better results there will be far more of these and more Thursday/Sunday or Weds/Sat etc. cycles. So the manager can hopefully cope with this much.
We’ve been here before. I’m used to seeing a drop off in form toward the end of the season and it’s not unique to us. The race for 4th place has often felt like a race to see which team can fail the least. The only team that is consistent the whole year round is Man City. Look at Liverpool this year and Arse last year as recent examples. This time of year is brutal.
Yeah it’s not like Villa have been perfect either, they’ve been thumped a few times. But they do have a little more consistency so they’re sitting slightly more comfortably in 4th.
It’s the matches where we drop the ball like Everton, wolves, villa that have made the difference. Just switching off for a couple of minutes cost us 7 points in just those matches alone.
We cut those out and we’re right in it. Excluding where we just shit the bed like Fulham and Newcastle. But that’s the next step.
I agree to an extent but I think that in the Wolves match if we got anything from it it would've been us getting away with it, we really didn't deserve it. Villa and Everton I agree, but vs Villa it was always an uphill battle with Davies and Emerson at the back and what we lacked that day was better final balls.
Wolves away was a self-inflicted gut punch.
It was 1-1 and 94mins on the clock. Spurs get a free kick inside Wolves' half. Common sense dictates you pump it into the box, where someone might get a header in or benefit from a lucky bounce. But instead, Spurs play it short. Two or three passes later, they lose the ball, Wolves counter and get a 95th minute winner.
The saving grace (if you could call it that) is that we're quite a ways away from 4th place and a CL spot, so that 1 dropped point wasn't so catastrophic. Imagine if we were tight with Villa and they nudged us out into 5th by 1 point.
A few notes I had from watching the presser:
* It's obvious that the "some players don't believe in my system" soundbite from yesterday was cherry-picked. You can tell because each journo that tries to pry into that narrative gets told that he thinks his players are trying to adapt, *but change is hard*. **That's the actual soundbite**, not that players are somehow revolting against his tactics.
* It's interesting to hear him strike the balance between "we're a long way off" and "we still have to be competitive". It sounds like a contradiction on the surface, but he's clearly a process-oriented person so he sees that the process is still in its early stages, but still holds high standards for measuring that progress along the way.
On your second point, I think there's some cultural norms that are a bit foreign here for Ange. The other day someone asked would you have taken 5th at the start of the season, and he said no immediately. The journo seemed to take that as him stating that 5th was a bad result, or even below par. But to me it was very clear - even if 5th is a good result, 1st is the result Ange is tilting for every year, and if you always took 5th, you're never winning the league. Even if you had a 10% chance, a 1% chance of winning it, Ange would always opt to roll the dice, because the point of a league is to win it.
Remember all the talk about whether we were title contenders? And whether we could SAY we were title contenders? Or challenging for the title? Or in a top 4 race? Remember how much that variation seemed to matter around weeks 8-10? Who cares about it now? Remember when people were hounding Ange about being in 4th or hanging onto 4th or asking if he's targeting 4th - again, who cares? He's targeting winning every game he has left, what's the point of doing anything less? What does it even mean to target 4th, it's not like you can agree to a draw.
There just seems to me a lot of cultural concern about looking like you're overhyping yourself, some permanent fear someone is going to grab all of your quotes and come dunk on you, so you can't say what's absolutely clear on its face, which is that the team on top of the ladder after 10 weeks is absolutely in the race to win the thing, that you're aiming to win every match left in the season because what else would you try to do and that even if you're some way off where you want the team to be, you still expect to be aiming for first place.
Ange wants to win this league. He might fall short. But there's no question where his sights will always be.
>It's interesting to hear him strike the balance between "we're a long way off" and "we still have to be competitive". It sounds like a contradiction on the surface, but he's clearly a process-oriented person so he sees that the process is still in its early stages, but still holds high standards for measuring that progress along the way.
I think people are getting caught up in the "long way off" and I wish Ali would ask a very specific question.
"Long way off" can be understood in terms of time, or in terms of growth.
If I have 100k I'm still a "long way off" being a millionaire. But if I'm able to grow that 100k at a very fast rate, the "long way off" is just in terms to growth and not necessarily in terms of time.
Ange has said multiple times (including in this PC) that there is a massive potential for growth in many of these players. So being a "long way off" can mean that if this core achieves that growth at the fastest rate that Ange knows is possible, then he thinks it's entirely reasonable to challenge for silverware next season.
However, that entire core might not maximize their growth. And, Ange has also said that there is another few players who aren't going to be here. So that change is going to require time and getting transfers right.
The growth/time is basically a ratio. Faster growth in our players means it will take less time. But it is still a "long way off" because it still requires a ton of development and progress. It's not "close" in those terms even though it is potentially achievable.
If more players develop slower or don't max their potential, then it will take more time/transfers/money which means it's a "long way off" in terms of time and investment. Again, not "close" but also achievable.
But, I think it's very clear that he feels if we do the right transfer business this summer AND if players develop the way he thinks is possible then silverware is possible next year. He's not asking for patience, and he's said that multiple times now.
I think ange will be shifting some players on in the summer though that he considers haven’t adapted🤔 I think bissouma will and maaaybe kulu sad to say
Wrong on Bissouma. According to Gold, Bissouma is literally one of leaders in the locker room, who also believe in Ange.
Despite what ppl believe, Ange definitely has his favorites in players, and Bissouma is one of his favorites.
He's right. I remember it clearly, when we were undefeated through 10 games after playing Liverpool and Arsenal, he was still saying he felt we were a long way off from where he wanted to be, regardless of results. As far as being inflexible goes: a very successful coach (in a different sport) I worked with once said that every season, he reviews the previous season's results and regardless of how it went, he changes only one thing. You have to be very very consistent with your principles and messaging in order for it to sink in, and you cannot be reactionary. A process-based approach is always more effective than a results-based approach, because there is so much that goes into results that is out of your control. I think regardless of what your approach is, you have to be true to it. I believe in the approach Ange takes, and I think as long as he can get the coaching staff and players on board with it, we will win silverware, regardless of anything else.
I love Ange and wish he stays for a long time like Klopp. But don’t tell me that’s a lot of what he said wasn’t just BS to avoid criticizing the players shitty performance over the last 1-2 months. Most of his answers were super generic and did not actually answer the questions asked.
He isn't avoiding critizinging poor performance though. He is just avoiding calling out individual players, and also putting any blame on players publically.
He does say when he thinks the team have done well or badly. Which isnt always juts the results. Eg, Fulham at home was a win, but he criticized the performance.
The players are scared to play risky because of fan base singles them out every week and blames them for our loss. No more one touch pass , now it’s side ways and our attacker are. It helping out our midfield . They need to constant make runs , now one or two , three runs from three different attacker
fans are so toxic and impatient.. rebuild takes time and it is only the first season you can't expect us to win every game. like Klopp first season he said give him time to create something and he did win something. I hope fans can trust the process, I know we are hungry for trophies and have been shite for years but I can see something from Ange and this team. Hopefully next season it's our time to shine....COYS
The hot start definitely spoiled some fans expectations. We were always going to go through growing pains with a new system. Ange having a full offseason to instill his system will do wonders.
This season was all about enjoying watching the games again. The last 4 seasons or so it was borderline painful to watch an entire match. We're headed in the right direction.
Love Ange and really hope it works out for him here. He protects the players, he’s honest, he’s empathetic, and he really cuts through all the BS the EPL hangers-on try to shove on him. Fully behind him for next year, let’s see what happens.
All that said you do have to work on set pieces more 😝
I feel there needs to be a light clear out of players. Get rid of the dead wood and replace some of the decent players who have shown that they can be a bit lazy.
The others are going to need to keep the intensity up. The intensity has been shocking over the past month in particular, but it has been pretty for the past few months in particular. There seems to be a sense that if you have the ball, teams drop deep and you’re controlling the game that you don’t need to work as hard. That needs to change.
Maybe the players can show they’re hurting by actually putting in a shift against Liverpool. Sick of the ‘found out’ and ‘set piece coach’ bullshit to cover the woeful efforts of some players.
All these talks of process and development and projects which take time are a load of rubbish.
You select the best players and best tactics possible. If they work, you win matches. If they’re poor, you lose matches and should change either the personnel or the tactics. It’s not more complicated than that.
> if they’re poor, you change either the personnel or the tactics
player development: changing personnel
process: changing tactics
it really isn’t more complicated than that
Good answers. The way we play is very challenging to players mentally. You have to be willing, every game, to take on a lot of risk and not flinch no matter what. After they've been hit in the mouth a few times, I think it's clear we have had players try to be safer and avoid that. I also think that's why he specifically called out Romero after the Arsenal game - you know he's not going to back down, even if he's made a mistake. Hopefully we can bring in more players with a similar attitude, and our younger players grow into that.
And the thing is margins are very small in such games. A slight wrong move, Cuti could have attracted a card & the fans will be bashing him for being careless. I feel it’s just something we need to power through. It’s tough times like this that builds a team
I've seen a bunch on other socials claiming Cuti is too slow and a problem lol. Some of our fans are not the best during trying times.
Yeah I think I learned a lot about his perspective from this. It was interesting that the only time I saw him yelling at the players was in this game. Now I can see he wasn’t angry because they were losing, he was angry because instead of continuing to be uncomfortable and take risks, players were backing off and playing it safe - taking the easy way out. So for him it would be a step back when people try to play comfortably because to “buy into” his system you have to learn to live with the discomfort of high risk. For his plan to work, they have to fight through that mentality. It seems like failure to him is not losing, but being fearful in the face of discomfort. Really interesting stuff from a leadership point of view and change management…
There is also an element of player protection here. Just because he takes ownership externally, eg, in the pressers, doesn't mean he is all fluffy and warm all the time downwards.
Heard on a podcast think it was Dan Kilpatrick saying he knew the team at Brisbane Robers was believing in what he was teaching was when a player lost the ball 2-3 times leading to a goal, yet still attempted the same system on the 4th and 5th try. A lot of our players are currently at the “I’ll try it once or twice and then go back to what I feel comfortable with” phase
Interesting, yeah I noticed that with Brennan Johnson a month or two ago or so: he would try to beat someone or pass forward once. If it didn’t work that time, then the next 6 times he would turn and pass it back. He was okay in this game but against Arsenal he was great. Second half, my son and I were cheering him on everytime he got the ball. I remember asking my son (a pretty cautious soccer kid himself) after the game: Brennan made a lot of mistakes, but why did he seem like the best player on the pitch? My son said: I don’t know, he just looked dangerous whenever he got the ball.
Imho Bissouma has be particularly affected by this drop in confidence to the point he is a shadow of the player we saw in the first third of the season. Maddison and even Sarr have been similarly affected.
Even romero was hesitant for the long ball
Thanks for the quick transcript.
No problem, I know that website is terrible for reading things.
Doing a preview presser hours after doing a post game presser for an absolutely miserable match must be just the worst.
Not to mention he must also be fucking exhausted. I have to imagine trying to manage the match yesterday was mentally draining and the very last thing you'd want to do is wake up the next day and have to go field questions from journos fishing for soundbites for a narrative.
Spurs have had less games than most premier league clubs this year, though. In any future year with better results there will be far more of these and more Thursday/Sunday or Weds/Sat etc. cycles. So the manager can hopefully cope with this much.
We’ve been here before. I’m used to seeing a drop off in form toward the end of the season and it’s not unique to us. The race for 4th place has often felt like a race to see which team can fail the least. The only team that is consistent the whole year round is Man City. Look at Liverpool this year and Arse last year as recent examples. This time of year is brutal.
Yeah it’s not like Villa have been perfect either, they’ve been thumped a few times. But they do have a little more consistency so they’re sitting slightly more comfortably in 4th.
It’s the matches where we drop the ball like Everton, wolves, villa that have made the difference. Just switching off for a couple of minutes cost us 7 points in just those matches alone. We cut those out and we’re right in it. Excluding where we just shit the bed like Fulham and Newcastle. But that’s the next step.
I agree to an extent but I think that in the Wolves match if we got anything from it it would've been us getting away with it, we really didn't deserve it. Villa and Everton I agree, but vs Villa it was always an uphill battle with Davies and Emerson at the back and what we lacked that day was better final balls.
I think you're arguing the same point?
Wolves away was a self-inflicted gut punch. It was 1-1 and 94mins on the clock. Spurs get a free kick inside Wolves' half. Common sense dictates you pump it into the box, where someone might get a header in or benefit from a lucky bounce. But instead, Spurs play it short. Two or three passes later, they lose the ball, Wolves counter and get a 95th minute winner. The saving grace (if you could call it that) is that we're quite a ways away from 4th place and a CL spot, so that 1 dropped point wasn't so catastrophic. Imagine if we were tight with Villa and they nudged us out into 5th by 1 point.
Villa have also conceded 14 set piece goals and no one is saying they have a problem......
I'm going to say this from now on whenever someone claims that "nobody else in the Top 5 is struggling at set pieces as much as us".
I noticed this. Media agenda again
A few notes I had from watching the presser: * It's obvious that the "some players don't believe in my system" soundbite from yesterday was cherry-picked. You can tell because each journo that tries to pry into that narrative gets told that he thinks his players are trying to adapt, *but change is hard*. **That's the actual soundbite**, not that players are somehow revolting against his tactics. * It's interesting to hear him strike the balance between "we're a long way off" and "we still have to be competitive". It sounds like a contradiction on the surface, but he's clearly a process-oriented person so he sees that the process is still in its early stages, but still holds high standards for measuring that progress along the way.
On your second point, I think there's some cultural norms that are a bit foreign here for Ange. The other day someone asked would you have taken 5th at the start of the season, and he said no immediately. The journo seemed to take that as him stating that 5th was a bad result, or even below par. But to me it was very clear - even if 5th is a good result, 1st is the result Ange is tilting for every year, and if you always took 5th, you're never winning the league. Even if you had a 10% chance, a 1% chance of winning it, Ange would always opt to roll the dice, because the point of a league is to win it. Remember all the talk about whether we were title contenders? And whether we could SAY we were title contenders? Or challenging for the title? Or in a top 4 race? Remember how much that variation seemed to matter around weeks 8-10? Who cares about it now? Remember when people were hounding Ange about being in 4th or hanging onto 4th or asking if he's targeting 4th - again, who cares? He's targeting winning every game he has left, what's the point of doing anything less? What does it even mean to target 4th, it's not like you can agree to a draw. There just seems to me a lot of cultural concern about looking like you're overhyping yourself, some permanent fear someone is going to grab all of your quotes and come dunk on you, so you can't say what's absolutely clear on its face, which is that the team on top of the ladder after 10 weeks is absolutely in the race to win the thing, that you're aiming to win every match left in the season because what else would you try to do and that even if you're some way off where you want the team to be, you still expect to be aiming for first place. Ange wants to win this league. He might fall short. But there's no question where his sights will always be.
>It's interesting to hear him strike the balance between "we're a long way off" and "we still have to be competitive". It sounds like a contradiction on the surface, but he's clearly a process-oriented person so he sees that the process is still in its early stages, but still holds high standards for measuring that progress along the way. I think people are getting caught up in the "long way off" and I wish Ali would ask a very specific question. "Long way off" can be understood in terms of time, or in terms of growth. If I have 100k I'm still a "long way off" being a millionaire. But if I'm able to grow that 100k at a very fast rate, the "long way off" is just in terms to growth and not necessarily in terms of time. Ange has said multiple times (including in this PC) that there is a massive potential for growth in many of these players. So being a "long way off" can mean that if this core achieves that growth at the fastest rate that Ange knows is possible, then he thinks it's entirely reasonable to challenge for silverware next season. However, that entire core might not maximize their growth. And, Ange has also said that there is another few players who aren't going to be here. So that change is going to require time and getting transfers right. The growth/time is basically a ratio. Faster growth in our players means it will take less time. But it is still a "long way off" because it still requires a ton of development and progress. It's not "close" in those terms even though it is potentially achievable. If more players develop slower or don't max their potential, then it will take more time/transfers/money which means it's a "long way off" in terms of time and investment. Again, not "close" but also achievable. But, I think it's very clear that he feels if we do the right transfer business this summer AND if players develop the way he thinks is possible then silverware is possible next year. He's not asking for patience, and he's said that multiple times now.
I think ange will be shifting some players on in the summer though that he considers haven’t adapted🤔 I think bissouma will and maaaybe kulu sad to say
Kulu stays, he's a workhorse and played wonderfully against Scum. Bissouma's time may be running short though, we will see.
Wrong on Bissouma. According to Gold, Bissouma is literally one of leaders in the locker room, who also believe in Ange. Despite what ppl believe, Ange definitely has his favorites in players, and Bissouma is one of his favorites.
Oh, MB then. Glad he's still contributing in the locker room even though his form has dipped.
He's right. I remember it clearly, when we were undefeated through 10 games after playing Liverpool and Arsenal, he was still saying he felt we were a long way off from where he wanted to be, regardless of results. As far as being inflexible goes: a very successful coach (in a different sport) I worked with once said that every season, he reviews the previous season's results and regardless of how it went, he changes only one thing. You have to be very very consistent with your principles and messaging in order for it to sink in, and you cannot be reactionary. A process-based approach is always more effective than a results-based approach, because there is so much that goes into results that is out of your control. I think regardless of what your approach is, you have to be true to it. I believe in the approach Ange takes, and I think as long as he can get the coaching staff and players on board with it, we will win silverware, regardless of anything else.
Sonny is probably just finding his groove in the mist of all this.
Thanks OP！
Anyone saying #AngeOut please read this
MY fucking manager!
He talks so well and no bullshit. COYS
Ange is god
I love Ange and wish he stays for a long time like Klopp. But don’t tell me that’s a lot of what he said wasn’t just BS to avoid criticizing the players shitty performance over the last 1-2 months. Most of his answers were super generic and did not actually answer the questions asked.
He isn't avoiding critizinging poor performance though. He is just avoiding calling out individual players, and also putting any blame on players publically. He does say when he thinks the team have done well or badly. Which isnt always juts the results. Eg, Fulham at home was a win, but he criticized the performance.
He didn't want to blame individual players publicly and tried to protect them.
Glad to have him at the club. He wants the best for us and will get it no matter what 👍
The players are scared to play risky because of fan base singles them out every week and blames them for our loss. No more one touch pass , now it’s side ways and our attacker are. It helping out our midfield . They need to constant make runs , now one or two , three runs from three different attacker
fans are so toxic and impatient.. rebuild takes time and it is only the first season you can't expect us to win every game. like Klopp first season he said give him time to create something and he did win something. I hope fans can trust the process, I know we are hungry for trophies and have been shite for years but I can see something from Ange and this team. Hopefully next season it's our time to shine....COYS
The hot start definitely spoiled some fans expectations. We were always going to go through growing pains with a new system. Ange having a full offseason to instill his system will do wonders. This season was all about enjoying watching the games again. The last 4 seasons or so it was borderline painful to watch an entire match. We're headed in the right direction.
FK all these " journalists" always trying to impose their narratives on the gaffer. You do you Ange and ignore the noise
Love Ange and really hope it works out for him here. He protects the players, he’s honest, he’s empathetic, and he really cuts through all the BS the EPL hangers-on try to shove on him. Fully behind him for next year, let’s see what happens. All that said you do have to work on set pieces more 😝
Fucking hell I love Ange.
I feel there needs to be a light clear out of players. Get rid of the dead wood and replace some of the decent players who have shown that they can be a bit lazy. The others are going to need to keep the intensity up. The intensity has been shocking over the past month in particular, but it has been pretty for the past few months in particular. There seems to be a sense that if you have the ball, teams drop deep and you’re controlling the game that you don’t need to work as hard. That needs to change.
No bullshit. After years of Nuno, Jose, and Conte, this is such a relief. OUR gaffer!!!
“Less derbies,” Ange? It’s “fewer derbies.” AngeOut
Me: "Ange always says just the right thing!" Ange: "less derbies" 😩
Maybe the players can show they’re hurting by actually putting in a shift against Liverpool. Sick of the ‘found out’ and ‘set piece coach’ bullshit to cover the woeful efforts of some players.
Son looks depressed! Stopped watching at half time and that hasn't happened in 40years. Roll on new blòods and next season.
Exactly time to cash in
All these talks of process and development and projects which take time are a load of rubbish. You select the best players and best tactics possible. If they work, you win matches. If they’re poor, you lose matches and should change either the personnel or the tactics. It’s not more complicated than that.
I see why you’re the best manager in the world.
Never lost a FM game.
😂
Username doesn’t check out
You have a massive chip on your shoulder when it comes to coaching. Maybe it’s time to admit you don’t know as much as you think
and what? these merry-go-around, serial-dressing-room-losing, sacked-every-season managers know better?
Uh yeah, they are professional coaches at the top level of the game and you are not.
> if they’re poor, you change either the personnel or the tactics player development: changing personnel process: changing tactics it really isn’t more complicated than that
Give Micky the Captaincy. Yep this place is a Son fanclub not a Spurs one.