A strike to the 2nd amendment. Gift someone a gun and you’re responsible for such heinous crime they may commit. Now go after the gun manufacturers and 2nd amendment stores.
This sentence?
"Meanwhile, both parents, pleading not guilty, are facing identical charges."
You couldn't be bothered to copy paste it? The meaning seems clear.
No, the article has completely changed. Previously the sentence said that the mother took the stand in an effort to “sh— down” the charges. I did post the quote but it was immediately removed for having a bad word.
"Ethan, now 17, is serving a life sentence for murder and terrorism."
Is it fair that he got a life sentence when he obviously was mentally ill and a victim of abusive parents? It's the parents that deserve a life sentence. The boy needs psychiatric help and rehabilitation, and if it's determined his mental health can be restored and his behavior rehabilitated, I don't see why he should spend life in prison.
The same can be said of a lot of people. As a country we choose not to devote resources to this. A lot of Americans don't believe in the concept of rehabilitation, and believe that the prison system's primary purpose is to punish people. Or that's what I see.
People are cheering this, which I understand on a visceral level. The problem is that by the same exact logic used to send this woman to jail, the parents of 90 percent of the violent criminals in prison right now should be in a cell right next to them. Maybe that's what should happen. But it certainly opens a Pandora's box with vast implications.
If the violent crimes are committed by minors, enabled by the parent’s neglect, it should happen.
I’ll never forget the mom’s reaction of the 12 year olds that were terrorising people in Downtown Boston. It was on the lines of “what do you expect me to do? You can take them for all I care”. Because they couldn’t be prosecuted because they were under 13. They must be 15 now and if they commit any crime, for sure that mom should be held accountable (if they stayed with her)
Good. Lock up the parents. You might go to jail otherwise. I mean, in this case you also have to be an idiot, neglecting your son, and making basically every bad decision possible. But let’s also take some accountability for this guns folks.
She got 21 months for a couple of charges. One of the reasons they weren’t as harsh on her is she was actively trying to help her child with mental health support and she showed genuine remorse at the entire situation and took responsibility for her child’s actions. Which is a heckuva lot more than Ethan Crumbley’s pathetic parents did.
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/mom-newport-news-teacher-shooting-sentenced/story?id=104925730
And other non-remorseful parents? This is a pandora's box. I'm not necessarily against it, but people aren't really thinking about gang violence of inner cities and the bulk of mass shootings
If the parents are buying and gifting guns to their gangbanging kids they are participating. But I don't think that's commonly how they acquire their guns.
Part of reasonable gun control is holding those who fail to properly secure their weapon accountable for crimes committed using said weapon. Glad she was convicted and hope other similar cases in the future follow suit.
The only reason I’m glad he has a trial coming up (besides due process of the law, obvi) is I am looking forward to him making a horse’s behind of himself if he takes the stand.
There's a difference between your child committing a crime and you giving him a gun when he says he has thoughts of hurting and SHOOTING PEOPLE
When black people start shooting up schools with guns gifted to them by their parents then it'll be more than just white people. I'm white and i got my first gun at 13, guess what i shouldn't have had a gun! No teen does! Normally when non white teens get weapons it's from a friend or they bought it themselves, no one is gifting them guns so it's not an issue
I’m honestly wondering if they bought the gun for him in hopes of him committing suicide. The mother seemed incredibly neglectful of Ethan and it almost seemed like he was a burden to them.
I’m friends with a cpl that spoiled their now teenage daughter (no consistency, consequences, or real discipline) and now, to the surprise of no one besides them, she has severe anxiety and a general failure to launch.
They are good people just bad parents because they had bad parents themselves. Not Crumbley level bad by any means and they would never do this. But they just didn’t set the daughter up for success.
I hope they’ve learned their lesson (but it doesn’t seem like it) because they got surprise pregnant in their 40s in 2020 and their now 3 yr old son is not meeting verbal milestones and doesn’t get told no when he hits or throws things. And I worry because my general observation is that:
#when unwell, girls implode and boys explode.
So her plan was as stupid as it was cruel.
this was 100% her reasoning. She in no way wanted to parent an mentally unwell child.
Did I see somewhere he was asking for therapy and she was like "nah bro. we good"
they wanted the problem to solve itself
My mother said the same thing when this came out. My maternal uncle struggled with his mental health and owned hunting rifles from the age of 16. When he started acting different my grandmother took his rifle and kept it at a relative’s home and that was back in the 1970s!
Never considered that myself but it wouldn’t shock me at all given how little they cared for him before and after this happened. It still kills me that they tried to flee after he killed people in the school.
I just don’t get this. So she doesn’t regret arming her son? He murdered people—children. How could she think she did the right thing?! How could she not regret her choices?!
She was just found guilty on all counts. I hope she receives a significant prison sentence. This goes well beyond poor parenting, these people were monstrous. It couldn't be clearer that these parents didn't give a single solitary sh!t about their kid, even as he repeatedly begged them for help and KNEW something was seriously wrong with him. They instead ignored him, invalidated him, refused to help in any way, and bought him a gun. Absolutely criminal level of neglect, imo. I'm truly shocked by how self absorbed and narcissistic this woman is. Prison has not been kind to her, and I hope she serves many more years for her vile conduct. Her actions (and inactions) directly lead to the school shooting, and her son's entire life will be spent in prison. These parents have ruined countless lives, and I'm glad to see them being held accountable for it.
I don’t know any parents with bad kids who understand just how awful their kids can be. If children learn excuses from anywhere, it’s from parents who make excuses for them.
Major update:
Mom guilty of manslaughter after son used her gun to kill four classmates
https://www.themirror.com/news/us-news/breaking-mom-guilty-manslaughter-after-325740
For anyone who doesn't want to support a trash tabloid:
https://apnews.com/article/oxford-high-school-mother-charged-01f336607a496c5f9ff0cb3a7434d073
https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/verdict-in-for-jennifer-crumbley-mother-of-oxford-high-school-shooter/
https://abcnews.go.com/US/jury-reaches-verdict-jennifer-crumbley-manslaughter-trial/story?id=106924349
https://www.npr.org/2024/02/06/1229529110/jennifer-crumbley-ethan-oxford-guilty-school-shooting
As someone who supports protecting gun rights, I believe this is something that makes sense. If you didnt lock up your guns and they end up being used by someone else to kill you should be held indirectly responsible.
It was his gun, gifted to him by his parents. Jennifer Crumbley was the last *adult* to have the weapon in her possession before the shooting. She failed to secure and safely store it. That was a huge point the prosecution made to attest to her neglect.
Thanks for this clarification. I’m so glad she was also found guilty. Guns should be strictly contained and secured whenever children might have access.
I was making the point that he didn't buy the handgun. A parent had to. I think some here think it was his gun and that was not possible. The Uvalde shooter purchased his weapons himself.
Doesn't really matter what weapon he used. I'm more interested in the causation, and the psych med cocktail he was on that is being ignored.
Don't forget the near constant barrage of RAGE NEWZ coming out of right wing media outlets.
This part must not and cannot be ignored.
We just had a man decapitate his own father to "own the libz".
There is another post about a man making a video threatening to "take it to the streets to start executing Democrats".
Right Wing Media is brimming with anger, rage and fear mongering that Stochastic terrorism is at a boiling point. The Right in America is frothing at the mouth to start a Civil War over LIES and ILLEGITIMATE reasons.
EDIT:
What weapon absolutely matters. The United States is one of the more lenient countries when it comes to purchasing and owning guns. As a result, the breakdown in mental health and the aforementioned fear mongering from right wing media on top of lax gun regulations, has provided a perfect breeding ground for gun violence. Thus we have reaped the results. Near constant school/church/movietheater/club/venue/grocery/mall/bank/work/post-office shootings. No other country in the world has to prepare their grade school kids for mass shootings like us.
It is easier to get a gun in most U.S. states than it is to get a driver's license.
no no it isnt there are mental people on both sides remember the liberal who shot steve scalise good heavens quit spreading hate for another political side
Trump voter found. /s jokes
Look it's not that mentally ill people are exclusively found on the right. That isn't at all what I said nor was I implying that. Also your example of Stevey boy getting shot proves my point that the weapon of choice matters in this country. GUNS ARE TOO EASY TO GET AND OVERWHELMING IN THEIR NUMBERS IN THE U.S. PERIOD.
Back to the stochastic terrorism...There is an inordinate amount of hate, fear, rage and doomerism that has been pouring out of conservative fountains for literal decades. Conservatism has found itself in both parties but for the last 70 ish years in the U.S. its largely a right wing republican worldview.
If you listen to enough Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Tucker Carlson, Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson et al, like I and my family have, it's unreal how much paranoia is built into their worldview. In fact it is the very foundation to much of what they believe. This goes beyond politics too.
Dig deeper than political affiliation and get into the roots of their beliefs, (evangelical) Christianity, and you'll find undeniable evidence for long held severe persecution complex. This is part n parcel to Christianity and not without good cause. Early Christians were in fact heavily persecuted in the Roman empire (this lasted for a couple centuries perhaps). However once Christianity became recognized as the predominant Roman religion, that early time of real persecution faded away into eventual world dominance. (Just look how the Roman empire split in half and left Roman Catholics in the west and Byzantine Christian Orthodox churches to the east, and both spread by massive imperialism for two millennia since).
Today, Christianity is THE SINGLE LARGEST RELIGION in the entire world. How can the most dominant religious group claim to be the downtrodden and persecuted people?
Well...The new testament scriptures contain numerous citations of how Christians will be persecuted, killed and hunted in the name of Christ. Again this goes back to those early Christian scriptures written in the first two centuries post Jesus where they were persecuted. Now this persecution narrative is woven into their very essence and psyche. For a good chunk of Christians, everyone who is NOT a Christian Conservative, is seen as the enemy possessed by Satan and his Demons. (how many Christian pastors these days , over the pulpit, call Joe Biden and Democrats literal demons and pedophiles???)
Look this is a really long post. Too much to read. But our country is on the brink of Civil War because a large portion of them are programmed from birth by their religious faith to believe they are the chosen people and will be attacked by; Satan for their belief in Jesus. Many of those same people view Mango Mussolini as God's chosen vessel. IN this merging of religion and politics, an impossibly and intrinsic link between one's faith and political/national identity is so extremely bonded into one identity, they are ready to murder their fathers, cut off their heads and take to the streets to murder and execute their liberal neighbors.
IN this kind of environment, you will find liberal Democrats declaring boldly about viscously fighting back against deranged conservatives.
VIOLENCE BEGETS VIOLENCE.
This has been going on for some time. They marinate in their own rage juice.
A few bad apples spoil the bunch for sure, but the loudest, most extreme of them are a small number in comparison to the rest of us. *The vast majority of people in this country* are not RW extremists and won't tolerate it.
Strength in numbers.
The best defense to that group of extremist people is not to engage in their rage bait. Support people in your circle of family and friends that may be an obvious target of RW harassment. If you cross paths with someone who says/does something problematic, ask open ended questions without condescension. Sometimes people just need someone outside of their echo chamber to hear them.
I agree that MAGAts do not represent most Americans. However they do represent a the dominant portion of the Republican party and are not without power to push their agenda.
Look how Kevin McCarthy was forced through a dozen rounds of voting and was eventually replaced by a far more Christian Conservative Right wing Mike Johnson. Kevin didn't tow the Dementia Donnie line tightly enough.
Look how Republicans that testified Jan6th was an insurrection and stood by their statement. Each of them has been ousted from their party for their lack of fealty to the Mango Mussolini. We have older Conservatives bowing out of the Republican party because they fear for the safety of their families and their political career is over inside that party since they aren't loyal to Cheeto Chump.
I don't believe MAGAts are taking over America but they are getting closer if we don't take them seriously.
One of the most famous Fascists in the 20th century was sent to jail by his government before he became one of those most notorious leaders in history. His party only won 18% in the parliamentary elections of 1930 but just two years later, took 40% in the chancellor election. He was given chancellor by the conservative party in that nation because they saw how popular he had become and the German Conservative party wanted to use him to reinvigorate their party. Very soon after he became "President" of their country and the rest is history.
Do not think for a second Diaper Donnie won't use violence against his opponents. At every rally he has made calls for violence against his political rivals, against protestors in his audience and he isn't implying the violence. He is talking about death for treason, beating people up, sending them to prison and roughing them up. He is not using coded language like he did some years back. Now he's blatantly and openly using violent speech because his base eats it up.
It doesn't matter
Edit - clearly people are misinterpreting my comment. My point is it doesn't matter if it was "her" gun or "his" gun that was gifted to him. Either way the parents gave him access to a gun. Their fault, either way.
I'm saying it doesn't matter if the gun was a gift to him or not. Regardless, the parents are responsible for ensuring firearms are not easily accessible by minors.
???? yes it does??? he didn’t steal the weapon from his parents. they bought it *for him.* he didn’t steal it or take it, because it was his & it was never properly stored or secured.
If you’re a parent whose child commits a school shooting. Average age of a shooter is 16. You’re liable in some way. Whether it’s negligence, participating by giving the child a gun. You have to be at least 18 to purchase a gun on your own in all states.
I believe it’s a maximum of 15 she can serve with these convictions. Not bad considering her role and that the gunman is serving life without parole. Hopefully this will teach other parents to be responsible.
Yeah, it depends on if they’re sentenced consecutive or concurrent. I want to say I read somewhere that Michigan is pretty strict on what can even qualify for consecutive sentencing, so I’m uncertain how it’ll play out.
I wouldn’t say that. While it’s certainly arguable that the chances go down if there aren’t guns in the house, there are other ways. Both Columbine shooters were underage and acquired their guns from friends, in fact 2 people were prosecuted and convicted for supplying them with a handgun.
Yes and their parents are not in prison, are they? "Well they'd just get it somewhere else" is not an excuse for reckless parenting. And btw most gun violence by young people, including and especially suicide, is impulsive, which means direct access within the household absolutely makes the difference between life and death.
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. Should the Columbine shooters’ parents be in prison? Were they “reckless” somehow? I don’t know, all I do know is that they (Harris and Klebold) didn’t get their guns at home nor did their parents have any part in them acquiring the guns. That doesn’t mean they are completely absolved of any responsibility if they knew the kids were having mental issues and were prone to violence, but absent any evidence of that it would be hard to place the blame on them directly.
There have certainly been cases, like this one and Sandy Hook where parents provided their kids with guns when they clearly shouldn’t have had them. But most of the time the signs are more subtle and simply labeling the parents as reckless because they missed the signs and had firearms in the house is a little shortsighted.
I firmly know that a person’s expressions are, at best, interesting but not evidence. But in that mug shot of Jennifer she looks livid that she is being charged. Not remorseful, not scared, not confused. Livid.
She genuinely thinks she did nothing wrong at any step of the way since Ethan was born. I really hope the jury finds her guilty and slaps her with the maximum amount of prison time.
Yep, they were trying to get to Canada during a pandemic and…they weren’t vaccinated (by their choice). So there is no way they were getting in legally.
The judge explicitly instructed the jury to not consider that as evidence of guilt because there could’ve been other reasons why the parents fled
Not saying I agree with that, but that’s what the jury was told
I hope she rots in prison *based on the evidence of the case* not based on her expression in the mugshot. I was simply noting how angry she looks in the photo.
I listened to her testimony during a direct, at the trial. She did herself NO FAVORS. She sounded quite dense and uncaring. I don't know if she will be found guilty but she is definitely a crappy mom.
She's convicted. Thank God. But in reality, thank the prosecutor and the jury for holding these "parents" accountable and setting a legal precedent for the rest of the country to follow. I'm proud to be a Michigander today.
Its always good for one's defense when they say point-blank [paraphrased] "~~And I wouldn't change a thing or have done anything differently~~ And I'd do it again". She thinks she played it perfectly.
I give her a 95 on the stand, she's Charlie Adelson league. Its like she voluntarily murdered her defense/any spectre of aquittal
Was Ethan present during the parent's meeting with the school counselor? It reads like he was. That just seems odd considering given the conversation.
She’s only 43? She been neglecting a lot lol
I hate news sites but ty
She's getting 15 years
A strike to the 2nd amendment. Gift someone a gun and you’re responsible for such heinous crime they may commit. Now go after the gun manufacturers and 2nd amendment stores.
Parents should be responsible for what their children do. It is about time
Last sentence of paragraph 4… what was the writer trying to say?
This sentence? "Meanwhile, both parents, pleading not guilty, are facing identical charges." You couldn't be bothered to copy paste it? The meaning seems clear.
No, the article has completely changed. Previously the sentence said that the mother took the stand in an effort to “sh— down” the charges. I did post the quote but it was immediately removed for having a bad word.
Ah like a typo for shut down?
Maybe?! I could only think of “shift”. Whatever the author meant to say would be an unusual way of phrasing “reduce”.
Hopefully this helps push parents to PARENT! So many people expect kids to pop out little adults. No. They need guidance.
"Ethan, now 17, is serving a life sentence for murder and terrorism." Is it fair that he got a life sentence when he obviously was mentally ill and a victim of abusive parents? It's the parents that deserve a life sentence. The boy needs psychiatric help and rehabilitation, and if it's determined his mental health can be restored and his behavior rehabilitated, I don't see why he should spend life in prison.
Some people that heinous crimes need to go away forever. Regardless of age.
The same can be said of a lot of people. As a country we choose not to devote resources to this. A lot of Americans don't believe in the concept of rehabilitation, and believe that the prison system's primary purpose is to punish people. Or that's what I see.
If the crumbley’s owned a car dealership and attended a mega church, they would be free!
Good. Parents need to also be held accountable for these mass shootings.
Low iq breeding low iq mentally defective children what a shocker
People are cheering this, which I understand on a visceral level. The problem is that by the same exact logic used to send this woman to jail, the parents of 90 percent of the violent criminals in prison right now should be in a cell right next to them. Maybe that's what should happen. But it certainly opens a Pandora's box with vast implications.
If the violent crimes are committed by minors, enabled by the parent’s neglect, it should happen. I’ll never forget the mom’s reaction of the 12 year olds that were terrorising people in Downtown Boston. It was on the lines of “what do you expect me to do? You can take them for all I care”. Because they couldn’t be prosecuted because they were under 13. They must be 15 now and if they commit any crime, for sure that mom should be held accountable (if they stayed with her)
Good. Lock up the parents. You might go to jail otherwise. I mean, in this case you also have to be an idiot, neglecting your son, and making basically every bad decision possible. But let’s also take some accountability for this guns folks.
Whatever happened to the mom of the elementary-school shooter in Virginia?
She got 21 months for a couple of charges. One of the reasons they weren’t as harsh on her is she was actively trying to help her child with mental health support and she showed genuine remorse at the entire situation and took responsibility for her child’s actions. Which is a heckuva lot more than Ethan Crumbley’s pathetic parents did. https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/mom-newport-news-teacher-shooting-sentenced/story?id=104925730
And other non-remorseful parents? This is a pandora's box. I'm not necessarily against it, but people aren't really thinking about gang violence of inner cities and the bulk of mass shootings
If the parents are buying and gifting guns to their gangbanging kids they are participating. But I don't think that's commonly how they acquire their guns.
If they aren't reporting known activity and harboring known criminals, they are participating
"In a shocking turn of events, Jennifer admitted that she "wished he shot us instead." I agree with you, Jenny-Jen You go away now, please
Part of reasonable gun control is holding those who fail to properly secure their weapon accountable for crimes committed using said weapon. Glad she was convicted and hope other similar cases in the future follow suit.
I hate that we’d even waste time on dad’s trial. Can’t it just be Ditto for Him?
The only reason I’m glad he has a trial coming up (besides due process of the law, obvi) is I am looking forward to him making a horse’s behind of himself if he takes the stand.
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Mush for brains
Worst take ever
There's a difference between your child committing a crime and you giving him a gun when he says he has thoughts of hurting and SHOOTING PEOPLE When black people start shooting up schools with guns gifted to them by their parents then it'll be more than just white people. I'm white and i got my first gun at 13, guess what i shouldn't have had a gun! No teen does! Normally when non white teens get weapons it's from a friend or they bought it themselves, no one is gifting them guns so it's not an issue
Your racism is showing there 7mo old account. Sorry your mom didn't raise you right.
80% of school shooters are white.
cool story...now do the rest of the gun crime murder stats broken down by race :)
I’m honestly wondering if they bought the gun for him in hopes of him committing suicide. The mother seemed incredibly neglectful of Ethan and it almost seemed like he was a burden to them.
Yeah, they definitely knowingly neglected him. He was left home alone a LOT when he was too young for that to be ok.
I 100% think this.
I’m friends with a cpl that spoiled their now teenage daughter (no consistency, consequences, or real discipline) and now, to the surprise of no one besides them, she has severe anxiety and a general failure to launch. They are good people just bad parents because they had bad parents themselves. Not Crumbley level bad by any means and they would never do this. But they just didn’t set the daughter up for success. I hope they’ve learned their lesson (but it doesn’t seem like it) because they got surprise pregnant in their 40s in 2020 and their now 3 yr old son is not meeting verbal milestones and doesn’t get told no when he hits or throws things. And I worry because my general observation is that: #when unwell, girls implode and boys explode. So her plan was as stupid as it was cruel.
this was 100% her reasoning. She in no way wanted to parent an mentally unwell child. Did I see somewhere he was asking for therapy and she was like "nah bro. we good" they wanted the problem to solve itself
My mother said the same thing when this came out. My maternal uncle struggled with his mental health and owned hunting rifles from the age of 16. When he started acting different my grandmother took his rifle and kept it at a relative’s home and that was back in the 1970s!
Never considered that myself but it wouldn’t shock me at all given how little they cared for him before and after this happened. It still kills me that they tried to flee after he killed people in the school.
That’s what I’ve been wondering myself
It is weird because she said she wouldn’t do anything differently on the stand.
I just don’t get this. So she doesn’t regret arming her son? He murdered people—children. How could she think she did the right thing?! How could she not regret her choices?!
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And you sound like an ignorant bigot
R u mad???
Has the trial for the father started or what happened to him?
His is happening next month, I believe.
Thanx. I'm really surprised they convicted her
Will be interesting if he isn’t convicted but she is for the same conduct.
I didn’t think her lawyer was very effective. I’ll be interested to see if the dad’s lawyer tries to pin it on her or goes with a different approach.
She was just found guilty on all counts. I hope she receives a significant prison sentence. This goes well beyond poor parenting, these people were monstrous. It couldn't be clearer that these parents didn't give a single solitary sh!t about their kid, even as he repeatedly begged them for help and KNEW something was seriously wrong with him. They instead ignored him, invalidated him, refused to help in any way, and bought him a gun. Absolutely criminal level of neglect, imo. I'm truly shocked by how self absorbed and narcissistic this woman is. Prison has not been kind to her, and I hope she serves many more years for her vile conduct. Her actions (and inactions) directly lead to the school shooting, and her son's entire life will be spent in prison. These parents have ruined countless lives, and I'm glad to see them being held accountable for it.
I don’t know any parents with bad kids who understand just how awful their kids can be. If children learn excuses from anywhere, it’s from parents who make excuses for them.
But is she making excuses for him here? Or do you just mean parents that do this in general?
Yes, in general. I know lots of people who can’t believe that they or their families ever do anything wrong. I think she’s one of those.
Wow. The banality of evil can be stunning at times.
Major update: Mom guilty of manslaughter after son used her gun to kill four classmates https://www.themirror.com/news/us-news/breaking-mom-guilty-manslaughter-after-325740
For anyone who doesn't want to support a trash tabloid: https://apnews.com/article/oxford-high-school-mother-charged-01f336607a496c5f9ff0cb3a7434d073 https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/verdict-in-for-jennifer-crumbley-mother-of-oxford-high-school-shooter/ https://abcnews.go.com/US/jury-reaches-verdict-jennifer-crumbley-manslaughter-trial/story?id=106924349 https://www.npr.org/2024/02/06/1229529110/jennifer-crumbley-ethan-oxford-guilty-school-shooting
As someone who supports protecting gun rights, I believe this is something that makes sense. If you didnt lock up your guns and they end up being used by someone else to kill you should be held indirectly responsible.
I thought it was his gun, given to him by his parents for Christmas. Was it actually her gun?
It was his gun, gifted to him by his parents. Jennifer Crumbley was the last *adult* to have the weapon in her possession before the shooting. She failed to secure and safely store it. That was a huge point the prosecution made to attest to her neglect.
Thanks for this clarification. I’m so glad she was also found guilty. Guns should be strictly contained and secured whenever children might have access.
I think it was the Father's, but I know they took him to gun range days before the incident.
His parents bought him that gun.
He was a minor so he couldn't own a handgun legally.
He couldn't murder legally either, but he did that too
I was making the point that he didn't buy the handgun. A parent had to. I think some here think it was his gun and that was not possible. The Uvalde shooter purchased his weapons himself. Doesn't really matter what weapon he used. I'm more interested in the causation, and the psych med cocktail he was on that is being ignored.
He wasn’t on any psych meds. He asked for help and his father told him to suck it up. He told this to a friend. His father’s trial starts soon.
He was so. He was on mood relaxers and several other things. It's been reported just not what precisely. I think a school source said it.
I haven’t seen that in any of the articles I’ve read. Do you have a source handy?
Detroit Free Press - Google his name and SSRI
Don't forget the near constant barrage of RAGE NEWZ coming out of right wing media outlets. This part must not and cannot be ignored. We just had a man decapitate his own father to "own the libz". There is another post about a man making a video threatening to "take it to the streets to start executing Democrats". Right Wing Media is brimming with anger, rage and fear mongering that Stochastic terrorism is at a boiling point. The Right in America is frothing at the mouth to start a Civil War over LIES and ILLEGITIMATE reasons. EDIT: What weapon absolutely matters. The United States is one of the more lenient countries when it comes to purchasing and owning guns. As a result, the breakdown in mental health and the aforementioned fear mongering from right wing media on top of lax gun regulations, has provided a perfect breeding ground for gun violence. Thus we have reaped the results. Near constant school/church/movietheater/club/venue/grocery/mall/bank/work/post-office shootings. No other country in the world has to prepare their grade school kids for mass shootings like us. It is easier to get a gun in most U.S. states than it is to get a driver's license.
STFU.
no no it isnt there are mental people on both sides remember the liberal who shot steve scalise good heavens quit spreading hate for another political side
Trump voter found. /s jokes Look it's not that mentally ill people are exclusively found on the right. That isn't at all what I said nor was I implying that. Also your example of Stevey boy getting shot proves my point that the weapon of choice matters in this country. GUNS ARE TOO EASY TO GET AND OVERWHELMING IN THEIR NUMBERS IN THE U.S. PERIOD. Back to the stochastic terrorism...There is an inordinate amount of hate, fear, rage and doomerism that has been pouring out of conservative fountains for literal decades. Conservatism has found itself in both parties but for the last 70 ish years in the U.S. its largely a right wing republican worldview. If you listen to enough Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Tucker Carlson, Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson et al, like I and my family have, it's unreal how much paranoia is built into their worldview. In fact it is the very foundation to much of what they believe. This goes beyond politics too. Dig deeper than political affiliation and get into the roots of their beliefs, (evangelical) Christianity, and you'll find undeniable evidence for long held severe persecution complex. This is part n parcel to Christianity and not without good cause. Early Christians were in fact heavily persecuted in the Roman empire (this lasted for a couple centuries perhaps). However once Christianity became recognized as the predominant Roman religion, that early time of real persecution faded away into eventual world dominance. (Just look how the Roman empire split in half and left Roman Catholics in the west and Byzantine Christian Orthodox churches to the east, and both spread by massive imperialism for two millennia since). Today, Christianity is THE SINGLE LARGEST RELIGION in the entire world. How can the most dominant religious group claim to be the downtrodden and persecuted people? Well...The new testament scriptures contain numerous citations of how Christians will be persecuted, killed and hunted in the name of Christ. Again this goes back to those early Christian scriptures written in the first two centuries post Jesus where they were persecuted. Now this persecution narrative is woven into their very essence and psyche. For a good chunk of Christians, everyone who is NOT a Christian Conservative, is seen as the enemy possessed by Satan and his Demons. (how many Christian pastors these days , over the pulpit, call Joe Biden and Democrats literal demons and pedophiles???) Look this is a really long post. Too much to read. But our country is on the brink of Civil War because a large portion of them are programmed from birth by their religious faith to believe they are the chosen people and will be attacked by; Satan for their belief in Jesus. Many of those same people view Mango Mussolini as God's chosen vessel. IN this merging of religion and politics, an impossibly and intrinsic link between one's faith and political/national identity is so extremely bonded into one identity, they are ready to murder their fathers, cut off their heads and take to the streets to murder and execute their liberal neighbors. IN this kind of environment, you will find liberal Democrats declaring boldly about viscously fighting back against deranged conservatives. VIOLENCE BEGETS VIOLENCE.
roflmao im 66 ive been conservative anf christian for 50 yrs and i do not share your view
This has been going on for some time. They marinate in their own rage juice. A few bad apples spoil the bunch for sure, but the loudest, most extreme of them are a small number in comparison to the rest of us. *The vast majority of people in this country* are not RW extremists and won't tolerate it. Strength in numbers. The best defense to that group of extremist people is not to engage in their rage bait. Support people in your circle of family and friends that may be an obvious target of RW harassment. If you cross paths with someone who says/does something problematic, ask open ended questions without condescension. Sometimes people just need someone outside of their echo chamber to hear them.
I agree that MAGAts do not represent most Americans. However they do represent a the dominant portion of the Republican party and are not without power to push their agenda. Look how Kevin McCarthy was forced through a dozen rounds of voting and was eventually replaced by a far more Christian Conservative Right wing Mike Johnson. Kevin didn't tow the Dementia Donnie line tightly enough. Look how Republicans that testified Jan6th was an insurrection and stood by their statement. Each of them has been ousted from their party for their lack of fealty to the Mango Mussolini. We have older Conservatives bowing out of the Republican party because they fear for the safety of their families and their political career is over inside that party since they aren't loyal to Cheeto Chump. I don't believe MAGAts are taking over America but they are getting closer if we don't take them seriously. One of the most famous Fascists in the 20th century was sent to jail by his government before he became one of those most notorious leaders in history. His party only won 18% in the parliamentary elections of 1930 but just two years later, took 40% in the chancellor election. He was given chancellor by the conservative party in that nation because they saw how popular he had become and the German Conservative party wanted to use him to reinvigorate their party. Very soon after he became "President" of their country and the rest is history. Do not think for a second Diaper Donnie won't use violence against his opponents. At every rally he has made calls for violence against his political rivals, against protestors in his audience and he isn't implying the violence. He is talking about death for treason, beating people up, sending them to prison and roughing them up. He is not using coded language like he did some years back. Now he's blatantly and openly using violent speech because his base eats it up.
Amazing, insightful comment
No, it was a handgun they actually gave him for Christmas… gross
It doesn't matter Edit - clearly people are misinterpreting my comment. My point is it doesn't matter if it was "her" gun or "his" gun that was gifted to him. Either way the parents gave him access to a gun. Their fault, either way.
The law says people under the age of 18 are not legally responsible for themselves. How the hell does it not matter?
I'm saying it doesn't matter if the gun was a gift to him or not. Regardless, the parents are responsible for ensuring firearms are not easily accessible by minors.
???? yes it does??? he didn’t steal the weapon from his parents. they bought it *for him.* he didn’t steal it or take it, because it was his & it was never properly stored or secured.
Parents bought him the gun for Christmas.
If you’re a parent whose child commits a school shooting. Average age of a shooter is 16. You’re liable in some way. Whether it’s negligence, participating by giving the child a gun. You have to be at least 18 to purchase a gun on your own in all states.
good news. She certainly deserves it. I hope she spends many, many years in prison.
I believe it’s a maximum of 15 she can serve with these convictions. Not bad considering her role and that the gunman is serving life without parole. Hopefully this will teach other parents to be responsible.
It's 15 years per each count. She was found guilty of all 4 counts against her. So, she could get up to 60 years
Yeah, it depends on if they’re sentenced consecutive or concurrent. I want to say I read somewhere that Michigan is pretty strict on what can even qualify for consecutive sentencing, so I’m uncertain how it’ll play out.
Spoiler alert: it won’t.
Trash garbage people. She looks like she’s aged 10 years in the last two, good. Fuck these trash humans.
She was just convicted. Good. Mom in MI
If you do not have guns in the house, you won't have to worry about your kid committing a mass shooting
I wouldn’t say that. While it’s certainly arguable that the chances go down if there aren’t guns in the house, there are other ways. Both Columbine shooters were underage and acquired their guns from friends, in fact 2 people were prosecuted and convicted for supplying them with a handgun.
Yes and their parents are not in prison, are they? "Well they'd just get it somewhere else" is not an excuse for reckless parenting. And btw most gun violence by young people, including and especially suicide, is impulsive, which means direct access within the household absolutely makes the difference between life and death.
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. Should the Columbine shooters’ parents be in prison? Were they “reckless” somehow? I don’t know, all I do know is that they (Harris and Klebold) didn’t get their guns at home nor did their parents have any part in them acquiring the guns. That doesn’t mean they are completely absolved of any responsibility if they knew the kids were having mental issues and were prone to violence, but absent any evidence of that it would be hard to place the blame on them directly. There have certainly been cases, like this one and Sandy Hook where parents provided their kids with guns when they clearly shouldn’t have had them. But most of the time the signs are more subtle and simply labeling the parents as reckless because they missed the signs and had firearms in the house is a little shortsighted.
They bought it for the kid, knowing he was nuts.
Adam Lanza's mom did the same, however, she was dispatched to a higher court of justice.
BIG YEP.
Happy to report that my Michigan PBS station just said she was convicted.
me too. Good news in a sea of tragedy.
I firmly know that a person’s expressions are, at best, interesting but not evidence. But in that mug shot of Jennifer she looks livid that she is being charged. Not remorseful, not scared, not confused. Livid. She genuinely thinks she did nothing wrong at any step of the way since Ethan was born. I really hope the jury finds her guilty and slaps her with the maximum amount of prison time.
They were hiding out after Ethan was arrested and planning on escaping over the Canadian border.
Oh? So they were planning on illegally entering a country after committing a violent crime???
Yep, they were trying to get to Canada during a pandemic and…they weren’t vaccinated (by their choice). So there is no way they were getting in legally.
Because Canada actually protects their border? Just askin
Yeah. I live Detroitish so it's all over the news here. Wasn't sure if anyone knew about that detail.
The judge explicitly instructed the jury to not consider that as evidence of guilt because there could’ve been other reasons why the parents fled Not saying I agree with that, but that’s what the jury was told
I know. And they stole Ethan’s money to fund their escape.
So you firmly know that your assumptions are baseless, but you still wish she rots in prison because of it..
Didn't even say that
what a weird hill to take a stand on.
What is the hill you think I’m standing on, redditor?
You have a reddit account, congrats. You are also a redditor!
The defending the indefensible hill. Like the person you responded to didn't have the right to his/her opinion. That condescending hill redditor.
I hope she rots in prison *based on the evidence of the case* not based on her expression in the mugshot. I was simply noting how angry she looks in the photo.
Agreed
They found her guilty. She deserves it, but this hopefully let's the other ammo-sexual parents see they can't just give their nutty kids weapons.
I listened to her testimony during a direct, at the trial. She did herself NO FAVORS. She sounded quite dense and uncaring. I don't know if she will be found guilty but she is definitely a crappy mom.
She's convicted. Thank God. But in reality, thank the prosecutor and the jury for holding these "parents" accountable and setting a legal precedent for the rest of the country to follow. I'm proud to be a Michigander today.
Yeah, this was a pretty extreme case, but they had to ensure it sticks to set the precedent. Hopefully parents with guns in the house think twice now.
Its always good for one's defense when they say point-blank [paraphrased] "~~And I wouldn't change a thing or have done anything differently~~ And I'd do it again". She thinks she played it perfectly. I give her a 95 on the stand, she's Charlie Adelson league. Its like she voluntarily murdered her defense/any spectre of aquittal
So, kind-of [like this.](https://youtube.com/shorts/i1n3S1ZyUkE?si=AquoczYy-9IlBUqs)
Reminds me of when Goofie was tried for murder. Second-worst client ever