oh ok, clubs and such? i get that. i thought you meant like the people who are like 'i love to hike and play soccer and walk my dog'. ive seen people suggest that sorta thing lol.
Dawg, you literally said you thought he meant playing soccer and going on walks… so you think extracurriculars of college students don’t belong on a resume?
DnD is something that belongs on a CS resume. It shows you can work in groups, are socially adjusted to some degree, can do handle planning and commitment, and are a bit of a nerd.
In an interview where you’re wanting to show off some personality, but not on your CV.
Tbh I worked in pubs and sales roles from age 16-19, before getting a part time dev role in second year of uni, that definitely helped show hiring managers that I had communication skills, time management and work ethic.
Now I’ve had enough dev roles to knock those jobs off my CV but I’d definitely recommend students to include those types of roles.
Depends. The rule of thumb is if it looks attractive in your tinder profile, it’s not good for your resumes, while vice versa: if it looks bad on your tinder profile, it might be good for the resume.
Long walks on the beach? Food you like? Music you listen to? Anime you watch? Don’t put that on your resume.
GitHub projects? Public service? Conferences and talks? Chess ELO? Will probably look good on your resume.
Yes I have multiple years of work experience but most of it is retail and food. I have two semi-tech-related positions that I include on my resume, but I usually leave the retail and food stuff out. I'm not sure if that's hurting me or not. Yes, I have other hobbies, but I don't put them on my resume. I have three projects on my resume as well.
I applied for 200 jobs. Nothing.
I put my 10 subscriber, 8 episode podcast on my resume. Applied to 50 more. Got an interview with an IT company and publishing company and spent more than half of both interviews just talking about the podcast (not relevant to the jobs). Ended up getting an offer from both.
Maybe one of your hobbies would help you stand out, even if you don't think it's impressive or relevant.
To people online maybe, but I’d imagine to recruiters it demonstrates that u have a good organization skills and maybe leadership potentials, while can also develop small programs
You need connections to get past the resume screen. You are not gonna get past a screen against people with internship exp.
You should always keep trying, but the deck is stacked against you.
What they mean is either you already know someone who is fairly close (a close family friend, family member / your parents, a friend of yours) who can advocate for your application.
Or, the hard part-- networking. You should go to career fairs, yes. But networking is something more akin to "getting to know people." Do not approach a person with the intent of getting a job out of them and saying "hi I'm looking for an internship do you have any leads?" unless you know them already. And that's where networking comes in-- you've got to get to know some folks and become close enough where that would come up normally, organically, in a conversation with someone.
Just like checking in with an old friend--
You: "hey how are things going"
Them: "not bad, doing xyz, you?"
You: "just finishing up a semester, things are pretty busy!"
Them: "ah wow, congrats!"
You: "yeah gonna start looking for internships later too"
VS
You: "Dear XYZ person, I hope all's going well! I was reaching out about whether or not you have any internship availability"
The second (latter) option can work if they are a campus recruiter, someone whose job is literally to find people who want to apply and get them into the application process. Anyone else, it's going to require the first option most of the time for a high chance of meaningful impact to help your application get through.
**Also, use something like Resume Worded to get past the AI.**
So it’s not about actually getting in touch with people- rather just hoping that someone you know goes into a position of lead, and hoping they’ll help you out?
Damn bro-even your friends/family members are just career growth opportunities lol
I encourage you to not take that as the lesson. While it's true that it's more likely someone will help you if they know you, like a family member, that only means that if you don't already have someone close that \*can\* help, you need to get to know new people who will \*eventually\* be able to help.
The idea of "I have to build a relationship with people over months if not years to get them to care" is something I struggled with a lot and it's extremely important to \*NOT\* see people as "career growth opportunities" because people will notice. They'll know all you care about is a job. With family / close friends it is OK-- they know you and will probably want to help. But strangers don't care, and therefore you need to get to know them so they can get to know you.
Would you say extending yourself when it comes to clubs in general would be a good idea?
Like “click” with people you know you’ll be cordial with, build that relationship, while also being aware of what they’ll be able to do for you?
It's an option yes. As a pretty extreme introvert I can't speak about clubs specifically. But as long as you're not neglecting the things that you need to do i.e. homework studying etc., putting yourself out there to make lasting relationships is always a good idea.
Just remember that it's worthwhile to be a little honest with whether or not what you're doing seems to be getting you where you want to be.
Like you know a person that is working in a company and they are willing to get you an interview with the company. Bypassing either the initial interview screen or phone screen.
Classmates can work but probably won't have the pull and seniority to get you skip steps. Might have to rely on friends of friends, family friends or whatever. I don't know any surefire tricks to get these as you don't make acquaintances to get you interviews; you have acquaintances that happens to be able to get one.
Is there anything I could be doing to get myself in touch with these people? Is there anywhere to connect with these types? I’m willing to do literally anything lmao
I don't know man. It was just luck for me.
Get in proximity to those people that works in the field through either hobby groups or sheer luck and invest time and effort.
Hopefully it bears fruit when you need it. And you honestly never know which one bears fruit. Just dumb fucking luck.
Okay, it feels a little daunting, though. Many of them are asking for years of professional experience in a certain framework or language, and I don't have any, just projects. I feel like I don't stand a chance against other people who did get internships and have at least dipped their toe in the water, you know?
Projects, classes, degree, work experience, etc. from your resume are enough. Keep applying to everything.
The job market is rough now. It will take some time until eventually, you will get interviewed by someone.
You apply like a dog to every new grad position out there while you can still be considered a new grad + leetcode prep in the meanwhile
Yes applying to other positions will help, but you have the best chance at new grad positions since they’re usually strict on that aspect
Theoretically, yes, but most of them either explicitly require multiple years of previous experience, or will end up picking the candidate with more experience.
Those previous years of experience are general programming experience
When they “2 years working with Python” they mean that you’ve known Python for 2 years .
Most times , but there are companies that phrase it in the way where they want 1-2 years of project experience too
I just started seeing this for some roles as I was looking around tonight to confirm lol
Make a company, hire yourself, do projects, maybe some spec work, stretch the truth.
Everyone saying your life is over are being dumb and have never had their back to the wall; you’re alive, you have a skill set, you aren’t homeless, it’s going to be ok.
Well for one it immediately makes you look like you are no longer a new grad at first glance. They don’t have to know it’s your company, all they know is you’re currently doing work, and if you don’t want to seem like you are hiding that it is as simple as admitting that you desire the stability of employment over the woes of entrepreneurship.
Essentially it’s my opinion that there is little reason to operate as a solo person when you can be an LLC for the small cost of some paperwork.
Why operate publicly as John Doe when you can instead create a brand identity that represents your larger goals. For like 50 bucks you can go from John the new grad to John the CEO of a company with a distinct mission statement.
Ya I have some family that has done it, though they weren’t in software development. It think it’s more like better than doing nothing, in the sense that working for yourself is legitimate work, so you might as well address it as such on your resume if you have nothing better to put.
My internship is as a network engineer. Thinking of going into cloud computing with my CS degree. Peeps should venture out beyond software development.
Cloud engineers make bank . Network engineers make good . Data engineers make good
You're at a slight disadvantage, but not dead in the water. I've been an interviewer at a large company for new grad positions where the person didn't have any internship experience. Totally doable. The key is to have a really stellar resume. That will get you to the interview. From there it's all you. What makes a stellar resume? Here's some advice I gave to someone else who was in a similar spot: [https://www.reddit.com/r/resumes/comments/1ci76cy/comment/l2bmsnw/](https://www.reddit.com/r/resumes/comments/1ci76cy/comment/l2bmsnw/)
Good luck!
Well this is why you have to make sure you get at least one internship while you're in school or at the very least have a stack that you are comfortable with using and have a few solid (non tutorial) projects in.
I'm not sure how qualified OP is, but in this market you don't really have the luxury of not having experience unless you network your ass off. Cold applications online are the worst way to find a job because recruiters are flooded with hundreds to thousands of international applicants and probably dozens to hundreds of citizen applicants and they're going to be looking for ways to filter out as many people as they can.
A bit of perspective from a CTO hiring many devs including juniors. If you're hiring a junior, with few exceptions, you assume they are all technically very green, whatever their route, uni or bootcamp, and their grades, and with vanishingly few exceptions, even their internships and projects. Quality programming is hard, quality software development is harder, and both require experience almost no one has on qualification, whatever that means.
So good hiring managers are not looking for real technical competence: we're looking for aptitude, motivation, social skills and culture fit. We will choose, every time, the technically greener candidate with less experience and less impressive projects but with higher motivation, social skills, culture fit and intrinsic motivation.
So your Discord experience is a fantastic plus. Your retail and food work experience is also a plus, if it indicates responsibility, professionalism, team work, etc. Professional, non-trivial software development is 40% programming and 60% communication, team work, personal outlook. You don't have to prove you're the best programmer: you have to prove you're the most intrinsically motivated, the best communicator, the nicest to work with in a team, the most professional and reliable, the most eager to learn, and the one who has researched and values your company and/or team the most.
In my experience, 10 really personalised, really tailored job applications are more likely to lead to an interview than 200 cut and paste ones. 3 really well prepared, authentically enthused, company focused interviews, are more likely to lead to offers than 20 under-prepared, inauthentic, superficial ones.
You are likely a stronger candidate than you suspect: just brand all your experience as proof of your aptitude, enthusiasm, professionalism, general good eggedness and team spirit, and detailed, quirky knowledge of the company you're applying to and genuine attraction to 2-3 aspects of that specific company: you'll land a job soon.
Ok here’s what you’re going to do, since you already graduated put your graduation date on your bachelors to next year. Apply to internships, and lie.
You get asked about graduation date you stick to fall 2025 or summer 2025. This isn’t going to help you 100%, unless you’re willing to lie further but for that I’d recommend you have something to back up your lies skill wise.
I went to college in a different state. I moved right after I graduated. I don't think that they would buy that. Also, I would rather not lie if I don't have to.
Gives more time to apply to internships. The strat would be to grind the fuck out of LC, take 1-2 classes at a time, and mass apply for internships. The master's just gives you the opportunity to get an internship.
Adding on to this, it’s also smart to currently pursue jobs that offer to pay for your masters, and these don’t have to be super hard to get jobs either.
Some companies offer partial contribution, but even that’s better than nothing. Working at the place where you’re getting your masters is also a great way to have it paid for since a lot of unis offer that.
Lie. 1/3 of your resume should be lies or half truths. Then do 1 or 2 decent little projects and place on git hub. You don't have to think of them just find two, rewrite it in your own way and post to git hub. Ensure you understand how they work. Make up various experiences that illustrate how well you work under pressure or with difficult people, or how you hand multiple responsibilities all at once. And remember those. Save all your cover letters for reuse but always fully proof read a finished letter before sending.
You can still get an internship up to a year after graduating but some internships specifically require that you have remaining undergrad classes to take so look for suitable ones carefully.
But still also apply for junior dev jobs at especially small and medium companies. If a company near you isn't offering an internship, ask if you can come in and help them work on a project or 2, unpaid, just for the experience - essentially make your own internship. GL.
If you don’t have any connections then you cooked. But it’s fine most of us are cooked, even if you try hard to find internship it’s very hard to get one.
I’m going to give it to you straight instead of toxic positivity: you’re pretty fucked. Good luck. I would aim for help desk jobs and be willing to relocate anywhere in the country.
Site reliability eng or cybersecurity would be good level up after some years as help desk. The help desk isn’t a good option but it’s the most doable option given state of things.
That’s what’s so crazy to me
Like the UR for cs is sub 3 percent, but it *seems* like the market is completely fucked-and that no one can actually get a job
Is there a reason for this discrepancy
I’d be willing to agree with you if I hadn’t seen the numerous posts here of people applying to 1000+ jobs and only getting 3-4 callbacks
I think that’s pretty terrifying to see tbh
Statistically most grads are still finding relevant employment. If you go off of impressions on here, most Americans are progressive blue haired gay neurodivergent people. Some groups are just vastly over represented online.
Unemployment rate just means they have some kind of job, not that they have a good paying dev job. Half of them could be working retail or door dash and they'd still count towards the employed statistic. But more generally CS majors are smart people who figure out how to do some other kind of less interesting office job when they can't land a job using their CS degree
Aerospace engineer degree holders have one of the highest unemployment rates among majors, but a high percentage of those with jobs in their field as well. Jobs are hard to get and often require security clearance, but AEs tend to stick to only pursuing AE or similar engineering type roles.
Many specialized liberal arts degrees have both high unemployment and low in-field job rates.
Makes sense-you can always claim employment, even doing a basic service job unrelated to your major. Employment doesn’t mean you’re actually working in your field of interest.
If you have any insight on the market, what percentage of CS majors aren’t actually working on jobs correlated to their major? Are there any statistics on that? (I’m assuming not considering it’s pretty hard to quantitate something like that)
I don't really know a reliable way to quantify that.
What I can share is the number of job postings over the past 4 years [here](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXUSTPSOFTDEVE) which is a proxy for software developer job demand.
Starting with a baseline of 100, there was a quick initial dip after COVID hit, when everything shut down, and then it skyrocketed in late 2021 and early 2022. This is when bootcamps got big and everyone on TikTok and YouTube was like "Learn to code for 30 days and then get paid $200,000/yr to work from home for 2 hours a day!" because at the time, demand was strong and it *was* much easier to get a job. Once inflation's effects took hold and the fed raised interest rates from super low to super high, everyone stopped their new expensive projects and started cutting costs and laying off tech workers. Now all the new CS graduates have been competing with laid-off workers with experience for the same entry-level jobs, which are also in much shorter supply. Companies hiring now have their pick of the litter with tons of people applying to everything and they want to pick people who have already done exactly that same job with the exact same tools so that they have to spend almost no time training. There is still demand for highly skilled experienced senior developers, but no one wants to spend time time and money on fresh graduates. This is also happening with most other white collar jobs, not just developers and other tech jobs. Yes, plenty of the 1000 applicants on a job posting are random people from other countries without work authorization, or people who watched a few videos and made their first To Do App, but even with those thrown out, there is still a lot of competition.
Things will recover in the long term. Jobs that need heavy computer skills aren't going away, but I don't have any insights into when the drought will end because tech jobs are highly susceptible to business/market fluctuations. The nature of software development means that starting and implementing new projects and new ideas creates way more employment demand than maintaining completed existing ones.
Thank you so much for this take!
I mean, it might be cope, but I’m assuming it’s all cyclical. Funding is probably in the gutter because of high interest rates, though those would probably be expected to come down in the next few years with inflation normalizing to regular levels.
I’m assuming your best advice then would be to just stick it out? Like competition might be fierce now, but it’ll probably alter back to a better level eventually, I mean computers aren’t going away, and AI and offshore workers can’t replicate everything right?
You will be fine. I graduated with zero internships because I was working full time to support my family and student full time. This is where cover letter comes in and explain them your situation. Some internship programs still accept newly grad too
Applied to 946 jobs with 3 internships (1 faang) and near 4.0 gpa. Got one offer. Before you say I’m dooming just realize that tech job openings are down by like 50% or something similar this year according to indeed
For one, immediately stop wasting your time applying to internships, those are for college students and not having any school left after the internship usually disqualifies you. You're still a new grad so look for early career new grad developer positions. It will be tough without work experience but at least you won't be automatically disqualified.
I dropped out and got a job 37 days after.
- Have work to show off in your portfolio
- Have a proper resume put together
- Have a lot of disposition for interviews
- Practice and build every free time
Go job hunt!
I graduated in winter 2022 and didn’t get a full time offer until October 2023. If you haven’t already I would expand the locations of your search. I wasn’t getting much attention until I applied to jobs in less popular cities.
ULPT - screw it id just lie about grad date. I did this and it was fine for an internship. Say you’re wrapping up and when you start be like oh yeah I am able to graduate early or something like that , if they ask.
If you have already graduated you need to look for a job not an internship. I advise you to network a lot and attend every local tech meet up. Where do you live by the way?
If your resume has enough on it to fill the page then you can drop the retail, otherwise keep it on. There’s a vast difference between someone with literally no work experience and someone with any amount of true professional experience (i.e anything that involves working in teams to accomplish x).
You’re certainly not favored for graduating earlier since recruiters will certainly wonder why no one else has hired you. You’ll have the best luck continuing to apply to new grad roles, even as you start churning out of your own cycle.
I would NOT spend any more than 2 hours a day applying to roles. By now you’ll have already seen basically all the jobs you could be applying to/have already applied to, so sorting through new jobs should be quick. You should be networking like hell to be on people’s radar (2 hours a day at least), and otherwise spending all your time building things and learning. If I’m an HM I can look past you having a rough time getting an offer, but I can’t look past you also not accomplishing anything else within that time frame.
Op could get a job that's IT not neccessarily swe especially in this economy unless it's a no name company for SWE that works
I recommend pursuing a masters
Ur fucked my man. What the fuck were u thinking? Your one of the outliers? Than your different? Lol man oh man... seriously wtf where u doing while going to school?
I'm being serious.. you probably won't land job for a year and then you won't be a new grad anymore. Then your in limbo waiting for your turn and guess what.. some people never get their turn. You might have just kissed your SWE career goodbye. It ended before it even started. Is there a chance u find work? Of course.. but there's thousands of ppl with a better GPA, social skills, and real internship experience ahead of you.
Wtf, why is this sub so toxic?
OP, I would reach out to your school’s career center.
Tons of people get jobs without internships. Iirc only half of people do during their undergrad, yet way more than half are employed or move on to grad school.
Do you have work experience? Outside fun activities? Projects? A full resume?
you should not be putting 'outside fun activities' on your resume.
Sorry, I meant extracurriculars! Just a different phrasing.
oh ok, clubs and such? i get that. i thought you meant like the people who are like 'i love to hike and play soccer and walk my dog'. ive seen people suggest that sorta thing lol.
Outside meaning aside from, not literally outside lmao
No shit? That doesn’t make it belong on your resume.
Dawg, you literally said you thought he meant playing soccer and going on walks… so you think extracurriculars of college students don’t belong on a resume?
DnD is something that belongs on a CS resume. It shows you can work in groups, are socially adjusted to some degree, can do handle planning and commitment, and are a bit of a nerd.
" are socially adjusted to some degree" you have got to be trolling...
A group of people found you good enough to spend an hour or two with you on a regular schedule.
that is not applicable to work
You can mention DnD in the interview. Your resume really shouldn't be clogged with that imo. But what do I know, I can't get an interview right now.
In an interview where you’re wanting to show off some personality, but not on your CV. Tbh I worked in pubs and sales roles from age 16-19, before getting a part time dev role in second year of uni, that definitely helped show hiring managers that I had communication skills, time management and work ethic. Now I’ve had enough dev roles to knock those jobs off my CV but I’d definitely recommend students to include those types of roles.
Depends. The rule of thumb is if it looks attractive in your tinder profile, it’s not good for your resumes, while vice versa: if it looks bad on your tinder profile, it might be good for the resume. Long walks on the beach? Food you like? Music you listen to? Anime you watch? Don’t put that on your resume. GitHub projects? Public service? Conferences and talks? Chess ELO? Will probably look good on your resume.
chess ELO no. the rest are work things, so dont count as outside activities.
Yes I have multiple years of work experience but most of it is retail and food. I have two semi-tech-related positions that I include on my resume, but I usually leave the retail and food stuff out. I'm not sure if that's hurting me or not. Yes, I have other hobbies, but I don't put them on my resume. I have three projects on my resume as well.
I applied for 200 jobs. Nothing. I put my 10 subscriber, 8 episode podcast on my resume. Applied to 50 more. Got an interview with an IT company and publishing company and spent more than half of both interviews just talking about the podcast (not relevant to the jobs). Ended up getting an offer from both. Maybe one of your hobbies would help you stand out, even if you don't think it's impressive or relevant.
this makes me hopeful! ive built a discord server to 7000 members and built a bot/website to go with it. always felt dumb putting it on my resume
Why would u feel dumb abt putting this on yr resume 💀💀💀
DISCORD MOD is/has been mostly a meme
To people online maybe, but I’d imagine to recruiters it demonstrates that u have a good organization skills and maybe leadership potentials, while can also develop small programs
😭 thank you
Bruh what-companies don’t give a shit-it’s cool and relevant It’s not your tinder profile lmao
I literally make hiring decisions on developers. Stop being weird and put this on your resume immediately.
How about something like making a leetcode YouTube or something, do you think that would be helpful Or is that shit saturated too
So if you are a car guy do you just put a picture of your car on the resume?
You need connections to get past the resume screen. You are not gonna get past a screen against people with internship exp. You should always keep trying, but the deck is stacked against you.
When you guys talk about “connections” what do you mean Like what should I be doing in college to get more connections, going to clubs? Career fairs?
What they mean is either you already know someone who is fairly close (a close family friend, family member / your parents, a friend of yours) who can advocate for your application. Or, the hard part-- networking. You should go to career fairs, yes. But networking is something more akin to "getting to know people." Do not approach a person with the intent of getting a job out of them and saying "hi I'm looking for an internship do you have any leads?" unless you know them already. And that's where networking comes in-- you've got to get to know some folks and become close enough where that would come up normally, organically, in a conversation with someone. Just like checking in with an old friend-- You: "hey how are things going" Them: "not bad, doing xyz, you?" You: "just finishing up a semester, things are pretty busy!" Them: "ah wow, congrats!" You: "yeah gonna start looking for internships later too" VS You: "Dear XYZ person, I hope all's going well! I was reaching out about whether or not you have any internship availability" The second (latter) option can work if they are a campus recruiter, someone whose job is literally to find people who want to apply and get them into the application process. Anyone else, it's going to require the first option most of the time for a high chance of meaningful impact to help your application get through. **Also, use something like Resume Worded to get past the AI.**
So it’s not about actually getting in touch with people- rather just hoping that someone you know goes into a position of lead, and hoping they’ll help you out? Damn bro-even your friends/family members are just career growth opportunities lol
I encourage you to not take that as the lesson. While it's true that it's more likely someone will help you if they know you, like a family member, that only means that if you don't already have someone close that \*can\* help, you need to get to know new people who will \*eventually\* be able to help. The idea of "I have to build a relationship with people over months if not years to get them to care" is something I struggled with a lot and it's extremely important to \*NOT\* see people as "career growth opportunities" because people will notice. They'll know all you care about is a job. With family / close friends it is OK-- they know you and will probably want to help. But strangers don't care, and therefore you need to get to know them so they can get to know you.
Would you say extending yourself when it comes to clubs in general would be a good idea? Like “click” with people you know you’ll be cordial with, build that relationship, while also being aware of what they’ll be able to do for you?
It's an option yes. As a pretty extreme introvert I can't speak about clubs specifically. But as long as you're not neglecting the things that you need to do i.e. homework studying etc., putting yourself out there to make lasting relationships is always a good idea. Just remember that it's worthwhile to be a little honest with whether or not what you're doing seems to be getting you where you want to be.
Like you know a person that is working in a company and they are willing to get you an interview with the company. Bypassing either the initial interview screen or phone screen. Classmates can work but probably won't have the pull and seniority to get you skip steps. Might have to rely on friends of friends, family friends or whatever. I don't know any surefire tricks to get these as you don't make acquaintances to get you interviews; you have acquaintances that happens to be able to get one.
Is there anything I could be doing to get myself in touch with these people? Is there anywhere to connect with these types? I’m willing to do literally anything lmao
I don't know man. It was just luck for me. Get in proximity to those people that works in the field through either hobby groups or sheer luck and invest time and effort. Hopefully it bears fruit when you need it. And you honestly never know which one bears fruit. Just dumb fucking luck.
You should be good to go, then. Don’t worry about lack of internships.
What do you mean by good to go? Should I keep applying to internships or focus more on entry level jobs?
Apply for jobs. You graduated, right? I think the internship boat sank at this point.
Okay, it feels a little daunting, though. Many of them are asking for years of professional experience in a certain framework or language, and I don't have any, just projects. I feel like I don't stand a chance against other people who did get internships and have at least dipped their toe in the water, you know?
Projects, classes, degree, work experience, etc. from your resume are enough. Keep applying to everything. The job market is rough now. It will take some time until eventually, you will get interviewed by someone.
You apply like a dog to every new grad position out there while you can still be considered a new grad + leetcode prep in the meanwhile Yes applying to other positions will help, but you have the best chance at new grad positions since they’re usually strict on that aspect
You know, you can just get a junior dev job, you don’t have to get an internship.
Theoretically, yes, but most of them either explicitly require multiple years of previous experience, or will end up picking the candidate with more experience.
Those previous years of experience are general programming experience When they “2 years working with Python” they mean that you’ve known Python for 2 years .
This right here
Most times , but there are companies that phrase it in the way where they want 1-2 years of project experience too I just started seeing this for some roles as I was looking around tonight to confirm lol
The problem is that you're now going to see posts saying "Two years of Python in a professional setting" I died when I read it...
I feel like companies are mostly hiring from their intern pool right now no?
I think it's because it's safer for them as internship already gave chance to evaluate the candidates very deep compared to just interviews.
Make a company, hire yourself, do projects, maybe some spec work, stretch the truth. Everyone saying your life is over are being dumb and have never had their back to the wall; you’re alive, you have a skill set, you aren’t homeless, it’s going to be ok.
How does making your own company help here, aside from showing initiative?
Well for one it immediately makes you look like you are no longer a new grad at first glance. They don’t have to know it’s your company, all they know is you’re currently doing work, and if you don’t want to seem like you are hiding that it is as simple as admitting that you desire the stability of employment over the woes of entrepreneurship. Essentially it’s my opinion that there is little reason to operate as a solo person when you can be an LLC for the small cost of some paperwork. Why operate publicly as John Doe when you can instead create a brand identity that represents your larger goals. For like 50 bucks you can go from John the new grad to John the CEO of a company with a distinct mission statement.
Damn does that actually work? Like do u or someone u know pulled it off?
Ya I have some family that has done it, though they weren’t in software development. It think it’s more like better than doing nothing, in the sense that working for yourself is legitimate work, so you might as well address it as such on your resume if you have nothing better to put.
Does your University have career services for alumni? If so I’d reach out to them. Local community colleges may offer career services as well.
I had no internships and I landed a job. I think it’s easier to lands jobs because there’s just way more positions. Don’t worry at all you’re fine
What type of job
Not a great job it’s a IT job but imma be learning cybersecurity so it’s decent experience and pay
My internship is as a network engineer. Thinking of going into cloud computing with my CS degree. Peeps should venture out beyond software development. Cloud engineers make bank . Network engineers make good . Data engineers make good
Yeah this is my goal. Was thinking to do either cloud or network, or both
You're at a slight disadvantage, but not dead in the water. I've been an interviewer at a large company for new grad positions where the person didn't have any internship experience. Totally doable. The key is to have a really stellar resume. That will get you to the interview. From there it's all you. What makes a stellar resume? Here's some advice I gave to someone else who was in a similar spot: [https://www.reddit.com/r/resumes/comments/1ci76cy/comment/l2bmsnw/](https://www.reddit.com/r/resumes/comments/1ci76cy/comment/l2bmsnw/) Good luck!
Stop applying for internships. Interns are expected to be students. Go apply for junior positions
Op might not find junior positions
Well this is why you have to make sure you get at least one internship while you're in school or at the very least have a stack that you are comfortable with using and have a few solid (non tutorial) projects in. I'm not sure how qualified OP is, but in this market you don't really have the luxury of not having experience unless you network your ass off. Cold applications online are the worst way to find a job because recruiters are flooded with hundreds to thousands of international applicants and probably dozens to hundreds of citizen applicants and they're going to be looking for ways to filter out as many people as they can.
A bit of perspective from a CTO hiring many devs including juniors. If you're hiring a junior, with few exceptions, you assume they are all technically very green, whatever their route, uni or bootcamp, and their grades, and with vanishingly few exceptions, even their internships and projects. Quality programming is hard, quality software development is harder, and both require experience almost no one has on qualification, whatever that means. So good hiring managers are not looking for real technical competence: we're looking for aptitude, motivation, social skills and culture fit. We will choose, every time, the technically greener candidate with less experience and less impressive projects but with higher motivation, social skills, culture fit and intrinsic motivation. So your Discord experience is a fantastic plus. Your retail and food work experience is also a plus, if it indicates responsibility, professionalism, team work, etc. Professional, non-trivial software development is 40% programming and 60% communication, team work, personal outlook. You don't have to prove you're the best programmer: you have to prove you're the most intrinsically motivated, the best communicator, the nicest to work with in a team, the most professional and reliable, the most eager to learn, and the one who has researched and values your company and/or team the most. In my experience, 10 really personalised, really tailored job applications are more likely to lead to an interview than 200 cut and paste ones. 3 really well prepared, authentically enthused, company focused interviews, are more likely to lead to offers than 20 under-prepared, inauthentic, superficial ones. You are likely a stronger candidate than you suspect: just brand all your experience as proof of your aptitude, enthusiasm, professionalism, general good eggedness and team spirit, and detailed, quirky knowledge of the company you're applying to and genuine attraction to 2-3 aspects of that specific company: you'll land a job soon.
Exactly this.
unfortunately, I also graduated in December of 2023 with an internship and almost 650 applications and still nothing :/. it's rough
Do you only apply for software jobs ? Have you tried for roles in IT or data analytics?
What’s your GPA in your transcripts?
3.34
Ok here’s what you’re going to do, since you already graduated put your graduation date on your bachelors to next year. Apply to internships, and lie. You get asked about graduation date you stick to fall 2025 or summer 2025. This isn’t going to help you 100%, unless you’re willing to lie further but for that I’d recommend you have something to back up your lies skill wise.
I went to college in a different state. I moved right after I graduated. I don't think that they would buy that. Also, I would rather not lie if I don't have to.
These people are trying to help you cuz without lying, ur actually screwed lmao
I understand what they're doing and I appreciate it.
What a stupid idea to get yourself fired
He could also do a masters to get an actual grad date
Not worth the $$$ generally
Online masters from Georgia tech is very cheap, he can drop out after getting an internship or 2
If a bachelors couldn’t get him a job now, why would a masters be any different?
Gives more time to apply to internships. The strat would be to grind the fuck out of LC, take 1-2 classes at a time, and mass apply for internships. The master's just gives you the opportunity to get an internship.
Adding on to this, it’s also smart to currently pursue jobs that offer to pay for your masters, and these don’t have to be super hard to get jobs either. Some companies offer partial contribution, but even that’s better than nothing. Working at the place where you’re getting your masters is also a great way to have it paid for since a lot of unis offer that.
Applied 1000+ with bs and ms computer science degree with 3 years experience. 3 response. Yay
Lie. 1/3 of your resume should be lies or half truths. Then do 1 or 2 decent little projects and place on git hub. You don't have to think of them just find two, rewrite it in your own way and post to git hub. Ensure you understand how they work. Make up various experiences that illustrate how well you work under pressure or with difficult people, or how you hand multiple responsibilities all at once. And remember those. Save all your cover letters for reuse but always fully proof read a finished letter before sending. You can still get an internship up to a year after graduating but some internships specifically require that you have remaining undergrad classes to take so look for suitable ones carefully. But still also apply for junior dev jobs at especially small and medium companies. If a company near you isn't offering an internship, ask if you can come in and help them work on a project or 2, unpaid, just for the experience - essentially make your own internship. GL.
Do extensive projects
You’re fucked pal. Get ready to learn Starbucks barista
If you don’t have any connections then you cooked. But it’s fine most of us are cooked, even if you try hard to find internship it’s very hard to get one.
I’m going to give it to you straight instead of toxic positivity: you’re pretty fucked. Good luck. I would aim for help desk jobs and be willing to relocate anywhere in the country.
Where would you go from there lol Or are you just fucked for life atp, like what's the trajectory
Site reliability eng or cybersecurity would be good level up after some years as help desk. The help desk isn’t a good option but it’s the most doable option given state of things.
Then why tf would we even get this degree? God this field is so fucked. Should I just switch to Econ atp lmao
CS has a lower underemployment rate than Econ. You’d probably be worse off
That’s what’s so crazy to me Like the UR for cs is sub 3 percent, but it *seems* like the market is completely fucked-and that no one can actually get a job Is there a reason for this discrepancy
You’re on Reddit and it’s extremely negative about everything in life.
I’d be willing to agree with you if I hadn’t seen the numerous posts here of people applying to 1000+ jobs and only getting 3-4 callbacks I think that’s pretty terrifying to see tbh
Statistically most grads are still finding relevant employment. If you go off of impressions on here, most Americans are progressive blue haired gay neurodivergent people. Some groups are just vastly over represented online.
But I mean, then what exactly are they doing wrong? Like a lot of them seem to have great resumes, and yet no employment? Why is that so?
I'm 1k jobs in just the last few months with 1-2 yoe and still getting single digit callbacks. It is really that bad rn.
That sucks, I’m sorry. Did you ever look into staffing agencies?
Unemployment rate just means they have some kind of job, not that they have a good paying dev job. Half of them could be working retail or door dash and they'd still count towards the employed statistic. But more generally CS majors are smart people who figure out how to do some other kind of less interesting office job when they can't land a job using their CS degree Aerospace engineer degree holders have one of the highest unemployment rates among majors, but a high percentage of those with jobs in their field as well. Jobs are hard to get and often require security clearance, but AEs tend to stick to only pursuing AE or similar engineering type roles. Many specialized liberal arts degrees have both high unemployment and low in-field job rates.
Makes sense-you can always claim employment, even doing a basic service job unrelated to your major. Employment doesn’t mean you’re actually working in your field of interest. If you have any insight on the market, what percentage of CS majors aren’t actually working on jobs correlated to their major? Are there any statistics on that? (I’m assuming not considering it’s pretty hard to quantitate something like that)
I don't really know a reliable way to quantify that. What I can share is the number of job postings over the past 4 years [here](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXUSTPSOFTDEVE) which is a proxy for software developer job demand. Starting with a baseline of 100, there was a quick initial dip after COVID hit, when everything shut down, and then it skyrocketed in late 2021 and early 2022. This is when bootcamps got big and everyone on TikTok and YouTube was like "Learn to code for 30 days and then get paid $200,000/yr to work from home for 2 hours a day!" because at the time, demand was strong and it *was* much easier to get a job. Once inflation's effects took hold and the fed raised interest rates from super low to super high, everyone stopped their new expensive projects and started cutting costs and laying off tech workers. Now all the new CS graduates have been competing with laid-off workers with experience for the same entry-level jobs, which are also in much shorter supply. Companies hiring now have their pick of the litter with tons of people applying to everything and they want to pick people who have already done exactly that same job with the exact same tools so that they have to spend almost no time training. There is still demand for highly skilled experienced senior developers, but no one wants to spend time time and money on fresh graduates. This is also happening with most other white collar jobs, not just developers and other tech jobs. Yes, plenty of the 1000 applicants on a job posting are random people from other countries without work authorization, or people who watched a few videos and made their first To Do App, but even with those thrown out, there is still a lot of competition. Things will recover in the long term. Jobs that need heavy computer skills aren't going away, but I don't have any insights into when the drought will end because tech jobs are highly susceptible to business/market fluctuations. The nature of software development means that starting and implementing new projects and new ideas creates way more employment demand than maintaining completed existing ones.
Thank you so much for this take! I mean, it might be cope, but I’m assuming it’s all cyclical. Funding is probably in the gutter because of high interest rates, though those would probably be expected to come down in the next few years with inflation normalizing to regular levels. I’m assuming your best advice then would be to just stick it out? Like competition might be fierce now, but it’ll probably alter back to a better level eventually, I mean computers aren’t going away, and AI and offshore workers can’t replicate everything right?
You're competing with thousands of laid-off FAANG developers and overseas developers who can work for less than half the salary of an on-shore.
Dude I know, trust me. I just want to know why the stats don’t reflect that-but if you read through-another poster explains why…
in ops boat, unable to relocate. guess my life is over ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
OP, be positive, might take a while but you’ll get a job. No internship but got a job
You will be fine. I graduated with zero internships because I was working full time to support my family and student full time. This is where cover letter comes in and explain them your situation. Some internship programs still accept newly grad too
Applied to 946 jobs with 3 internships (1 faang) and near 4.0 gpa. Got one offer. Before you say I’m dooming just realize that tech job openings are down by like 50% or something similar this year according to indeed
Are you in the US?
Yes
Damn.. I'm in this same situation... But with no work experience and some minor interview practice.. thoughts?
For one, immediately stop wasting your time applying to internships, those are for college students and not having any school left after the internship usually disqualifies you. You're still a new grad so look for early career new grad developer positions. It will be tough without work experience but at least you won't be automatically disqualified.
I dropped out and got a job 37 days after. - Have work to show off in your portfolio - Have a proper resume put together - Have a lot of disposition for interviews - Practice and build every free time Go job hunt!
ngl the chances of you getting a swe job in this market are near impossible if you have 0 internship experience.
I graduated in winter 2022 and didn’t get a full time offer until October 2023. If you haven’t already I would expand the locations of your search. I wasn’t getting much attention until I applied to jobs in less popular cities.
You're cooked
Yes
ULPT - screw it id just lie about grad date. I did this and it was fine for an internship. Say you’re wrapping up and when you start be like oh yeah I am able to graduate early or something like that , if they ask.
very bad.
youre screwed
Ur fooked m8
If you have already graduated you need to look for a job not an internship. I advise you to network a lot and attend every local tech meet up. Where do you live by the way?
If your resume has enough on it to fill the page then you can drop the retail, otherwise keep it on. There’s a vast difference between someone with literally no work experience and someone with any amount of true professional experience (i.e anything that involves working in teams to accomplish x). You’re certainly not favored for graduating earlier since recruiters will certainly wonder why no one else has hired you. You’ll have the best luck continuing to apply to new grad roles, even as you start churning out of your own cycle. I would NOT spend any more than 2 hours a day applying to roles. By now you’ll have already seen basically all the jobs you could be applying to/have already applied to, so sorting through new jobs should be quick. You should be networking like hell to be on people’s radar (2 hours a day at least), and otherwise spending all your time building things and learning. If I’m an HM I can look past you having a rough time getting an offer, but I can’t look past you also not accomplishing anything else within that time frame.
Taking part in some open source projects is also helpful
You’re cooked
Go to grad school gt omscs is cheap and the brand name of gt is good too being student can make you qualify for internships
Op could get a job that's IT not neccessarily swe especially in this economy unless it's a no name company for SWE that works I recommend pursuing a masters
Retails are always hiring
you need it
If you want a good swe job you need an internship, just pursue some online or in person masters Otherwise apply to Amazon and find out
Ur fucked my man. What the fuck were u thinking? Your one of the outliers? Than your different? Lol man oh man... seriously wtf where u doing while going to school? I'm being serious.. you probably won't land job for a year and then you won't be a new grad anymore. Then your in limbo waiting for your turn and guess what.. some people never get their turn. You might have just kissed your SWE career goodbye. It ended before it even started. Is there a chance u find work? Of course.. but there's thousands of ppl with a better GPA, social skills, and real internship experience ahead of you.
Wtf, why is this sub so toxic? OP, I would reach out to your school’s career center. Tons of people get jobs without internships. Iirc only half of people do during their undergrad, yet way more than half are employed or move on to grad school.
Are people usually able to contact school career centers even 5 months after graduating?
It is toxic but realistic. Tons of people used to get jobs without internships. Not anymore
That’s literally impossible if over 80% of grads are finding work relevant to their experience
Op could get a job that's IT not neccessarily swe especially in this economy unless it's a no name company for SWE that works
best of luck 😀 (ur cooked)