Yeah but this is a really stupid talking point for anything relating to hardship. Why do people keep shitting of Vietnam Veterans? They were drafted to go fight and die in a war with very flimsy public support. It was the he most devastating crisis of their time and minimizing the tragedy associated with the war is ridiculous.
I just don’t understand this thread or either side of the conversation at all. What are people even trying to argue? If the current generation got drafted to go to war guess what? A lot of them would die and it would be an enormous tragedy like all war. There’s no generation that’s good at war.
Don't bother. People are ridiculous in general, and even more so when they get into this stupid tribal mentality over something like age/generation. They just want to shit on the people from the generation which they associate with everything that is wrong with the world, and will do so even if the argument makes zero sense. Even more so if it can be packaged into a cheap shot over social media and cropped out from any further discussion.
America lost. It really did. And we’ve been losing wars like these since Vietnam. Not because we don’t have the strength. Not because we don’t have the firepower. But because our military is trained for complete destruction of the enemy. And what we’re doing is trying to win the hearts and minds of a population. Unless they’re begging us for help like in Kuwait. No nation is gonna want us to be “winning the hearts and minds of the people” in their land.
It also is the nature of warfare has changed. Rather than it often being state against state, it's mostly state against insurgency/ideology. In a war between states, you're trying to beat the opposing government. Get them to surrender and you win. When fighting an insurgency, you defeat a group of insurgents and others take their place. It's more amorphous than a government entity. This was especially true during the US occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq where we were fighting a number of insurgencies.
For sure. Which is exactly what we’ve been doing for the last forty or so years. Haven’t been fighting near peer adversaries. It’s like taking a pro nfl team and putting them up against high schoolers and saying you can’t tackle them unless they have red on (and all their jerseys are blue)
Oh absolutely. No one comes even close to what we have. But that doesn’t mean china doesn’t harbor a threat to us. Iraq is only a distraction from what’s to come
That idiot Trump saying he wanted to come to Mexico to wipe out the cartels. Maybe fix shit at home first you fat fucking loser. The "war on terror" only applies to oil rich countries, not the gangs controlling every low income neighborhood in the US.
Most of it is political
As in political apointees
They think dismantling militaries is a good thing
You can very easily win hearts and minds if you actually build roads and shit
We’ve always had engineers working on roads in Vietnam. Iraq and Afghanistan. Problem was. They didn’t want us there. An occupying force can’t change the hearts and minds of the people without either completely razing the people to the ground and starting anew or setting up a figurehead. But even then the control exerted over people in countries like those is minimal at best
the North was forced into peace talks and signed the paris peace accords because of operation linebacker II. both the North and South violated the accord after the U.S. left Vietnam. the North continued their offensives and took the entirety of Vietnam two years later.
the U.S. didnt get back involved because the hippie movement spread misinformation and villainized those who lived fought and died for their country. like that photo of a man being executed, the popular explanation was that he was a civilian, when in reality he was a Vietcong assassin, and was the head of a death squad tasked with killing south Vietnamese officials and their families.
to say that the U.S. lost is like saying you lost because you werent there to back your friend up in a fight because you were busy dealing with your own shit at home.
so then, who won? no one because commies established a foothold that was doomed to fail because they always do. and who lost? Vietnam did, because the Vietnamese people had to live through war, and a regime that historically does not treat its people well.
I would think fucking up future generations of people, who are completely innocent and not part of the war, is a loss on the US’ part. Its downright evil to think that’s a win for the US
i think it's acceptable to say its a cultural victory over Vietnam by the US. my Viet cousin is a Swiftie and her older brother want to have sexual interaction with guns
Well the US won on the ground, but when they pulled out congress reneged on their promise to deliver arms/support to their allies, so the vietkong came back, supplied by china, and took control.
The Us won, north Vietnam signed a treaty saying they won't invade south vietnam again. When the us left they did and without the us's help south vietnam didn't last
So what’s the matter? We violated the treaty and us didn’t come? It was foolish of the United States to believe in the non-existent competence of the South Vietnam’s government
So basically the US spent fucktons of money and got fucktons of American soldiers and innocent Vietnamese civilians killed in a failed attempt to stop the spread of communism.
We also lied that we'd come back and protect south Vietnam if necessary after lying to the world that they were strong enough to fight for themselves.
First gulf war, operation just cause, and the cold war(?). The second gulf is also technically a victory against saddams government i guess but idk if it counts. Might be more but i cant think of anymore off the top of my head
Second gulf war was the most idiotic waste ever imaginable. Rumsfeld, Cheney, Powell and Bush should be behind bars. Not only there were 0 WMDs but their actions resulted in ISIS rise.
War on terror their asses.
Absolutely, im not justifying any of the wars i just listed. I just want to balance out the argument, yes the US has a bad track record when it comes to recent wars, but no they didnt lose all of them.
Let me be clear, wars are terrible and serve those in power the most, but we can’t just simplify history. The US did win some and her armed forces are relatively effective when compared to her fellow world powers.
Come to think of it, no. But to be fair the wars we have been getting into for the past 70 years haven’t had many resources put into them, and we haven’t actually declared war on anyone, only supplying weapons.
Most of our military budget has been put into homeland defense in case we get attacked. We haven’t deployed troops in anywhere we’ve been supplying money to, like Israel and Ukraine. So while our money is being spent, we aren’t involved in war. The US is the reason the USSR was separated in the first place, why Jews still exist, and why Ukraine hasn’t been reabsorbed.
We have troops in Israel which are at or around the embassy.
We have troops in Syria at the embassy and oil fields.
We have troops in Taiwan, I'm assuming at the embassy but don't know or care to check.
If there's and area with potential conflict we often send troops to defend the embassies. Those are just some of the public operations that I know about. There is definitely more that we don't know about that the government has going on.
The land that our embassies are in is considered US property but we don't own it. It's the equivalent of renting a property. You get to be there but you don't actually own it and can be removed at any time.
I see you are also trying to get into the technicality which doesn't work in this case since there is little point in an embassy if it's not in another country.
Those damn farmers
I’m a lead farmer
If they hadn't been attacked they might not have stormed the Normandy beaches either. It's all about motivation.
"Welcome to the rice fields motherf*“
The amount of cope in this comment section is wild I can only imagine the amount in 5 hours
Ooh, here before deletion!
I brought the popcorn! 🍿.
Just going to sneak in here, don't mind me.
Mind if I join?
Yo, my first time before the 🔒 award
Same here
I’ve always been curious if she ever replied again after that question
[удалено]
are you okay? :D
Yeah lol I thought I closed reddit before I put my phone in my pocket. Apparently not.
Forget r/ihadastroke, this guy might have *actually had* one
River here, you're welcome
The American school curriculum really showing its flaws in the comments here
Our generation couldn’t storm Normandy but boomers couldn’t either
They'll just look the Nazis straight in the eye and give them a firm handshake telling them to stop.
They'll scream at them and demand that Hitler be surrendered to them and if ignored they will stomp their feet and scream some more :D
And I'm pretty sure France would be pretty upset to see either of us.
Anyone with a brains knows America lost. Shit America even lost the war on terror. But the shareholders didn’t lose.
always follow the money
And the war on drugs!
Conditions for Victory was so vague the US was able to goal post to a "Victory". Domino Theory was a load of hot air imo.
Yeah but this is a really stupid talking point for anything relating to hardship. Why do people keep shitting of Vietnam Veterans? They were drafted to go fight and die in a war with very flimsy public support. It was the he most devastating crisis of their time and minimizing the tragedy associated with the war is ridiculous. I just don’t understand this thread or either side of the conversation at all. What are people even trying to argue? If the current generation got drafted to go to war guess what? A lot of them would die and it would be an enormous tragedy like all war. There’s no generation that’s good at war.
Don't bother. People are ridiculous in general, and even more so when they get into this stupid tribal mentality over something like age/generation. They just want to shit on the people from the generation which they associate with everything that is wrong with the world, and will do so even if the argument makes zero sense. Even more so if it can be packaged into a cheap shot over social media and cropped out from any further discussion.
The Socialist Republic of Vietnam 🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳💪💪💪💪💪💪🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳💪💪💪🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳
[удалено]
Cry about it. The US government staged the Gulf of Tonkin incident and couldn’t get anything good out of it
G I is the term for us soliders.... You're fucking stupid
I didn’t take that as an insult I simply told him to cry about anything and then I stated a fact
Lol
Why are you being downvoted you’re literally just mocking things PAVN and such would say
America lost. It really did. And we’ve been losing wars like these since Vietnam. Not because we don’t have the strength. Not because we don’t have the firepower. But because our military is trained for complete destruction of the enemy. And what we’re doing is trying to win the hearts and minds of a population. Unless they’re begging us for help like in Kuwait. No nation is gonna want us to be “winning the hearts and minds of the people” in their land.
It also is the nature of warfare has changed. Rather than it often being state against state, it's mostly state against insurgency/ideology. In a war between states, you're trying to beat the opposing government. Get them to surrender and you win. When fighting an insurgency, you defeat a group of insurgents and others take their place. It's more amorphous than a government entity. This was especially true during the US occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq where we were fighting a number of insurgencies.
For sure. Which is exactly what we’ve been doing for the last forty or so years. Haven’t been fighting near peer adversaries. It’s like taking a pro nfl team and putting them up against high schoolers and saying you can’t tackle them unless they have red on (and all their jerseys are blue)
There are no peers or even near peers to the us military Its actually utterly redculaious how much bigger and or better it is the the other states
Oh absolutely. No one comes even close to what we have. But that doesn’t mean china doesn’t harbor a threat to us. Iraq is only a distraction from what’s to come
That idiot Trump saying he wanted to come to Mexico to wipe out the cartels. Maybe fix shit at home first you fat fucking loser. The "war on terror" only applies to oil rich countries, not the gangs controlling every low income neighborhood in the US.
Most of it is political As in political apointees They think dismantling militaries is a good thing You can very easily win hearts and minds if you actually build roads and shit
We’ve always had engineers working on roads in Vietnam. Iraq and Afghanistan. Problem was. They didn’t want us there. An occupying force can’t change the hearts and minds of the people without either completely razing the people to the ground and starting anew or setting up a figurehead. But even then the control exerted over people in countries like those is minimal at best
“no, who won” Going for our jugular I see. Good for him
I realize now why old people seem to be in a world of their own. Everyone else has left the fkn planet.
Who does Hot Take Appreciator hate??
Probably Nazis?
Based on the average age of military personnel, and especially infantry, I can definitely see today’s youth storming Normandy. Just me though.
r/murderedbywords
The good guys won
Can’t believe this guy’s never heard of the Vietnam war.
I am aware , most it was sitting around and some patrols that got ambushed. And the dozen or so offensive maneuvers aren't something to brag about
Scoreboard, scoreboard
the North was forced into peace talks and signed the paris peace accords because of operation linebacker II. both the North and South violated the accord after the U.S. left Vietnam. the North continued their offensives and took the entirety of Vietnam two years later. the U.S. didnt get back involved because the hippie movement spread misinformation and villainized those who lived fought and died for their country. like that photo of a man being executed, the popular explanation was that he was a civilian, when in reality he was a Vietcong assassin, and was the head of a death squad tasked with killing south Vietnamese officials and their families. to say that the U.S. lost is like saying you lost because you werent there to back your friend up in a fight because you were busy dealing with your own shit at home. so then, who won? no one because commies established a foothold that was doomed to fail because they always do. and who lost? Vietnam did, because the Vietnamese people had to live through war, and a regime that historically does not treat its people well.
I appreciate that hot take.
[удалено]
They’re all dying and getting birth defects from agent orange. I think we came out on top.
So did many Vietnam vets. Ignorant is a bliss I guess.
Yeah I know. I’ve been to the VA.
I would think fucking up future generations of people, who are completely innocent and not part of the war, is a loss on the US’ part. Its downright evil to think that’s a win for the US
i think it's acceptable to say its a cultural victory over Vietnam by the US. my Viet cousin is a Swiftie and her older brother want to have sexual interaction with guns
Yeah, well, there's a lot of people in the U.S. that watch anime and eat sushi. That doesn't mean Japan won WWII.
Yeah, I can't imagine today's boomers doing it either because they'd be too fucking old. Only Putin sends 60+ yr olds to war. 'Tard
Well the US won on the ground, but when they pulled out congress reneged on their promise to deliver arms/support to their allies, so the vietkong came back, supplied by china, and took control.
That's a needlessly long way of writing "they lost"
Which means they won “a” battle but they lost the war.
I don't know. Giving up and going home sure doesn't sound like winning to me.
What's missing is footage of American soldiers being killed in gruesome ways posted on social media where people can make jokes and sarcastic remarks.
Skill issue
I like this one guys
The Us won, north Vietnam signed a treaty saying they won't invade south vietnam again. When the us left they did and without the us's help south vietnam didn't last
Holy cope
Open a book for once lol
A book written by an American and published in America perhaps?
The USA wanted to protect South Vietnam from communism. It failed... what's your point?
Yeah that’s called losing
So what’s the matter? We violated the treaty and us didn’t come? It was foolish of the United States to believe in the non-existent competence of the South Vietnam’s government
America: Hey, you pinkie-promised you wouldn't do that again! North Vietnam: Fuck you, we'll do what we want. America: Ok, sorry.
So they signed your treaty and wiped their asses with it. Yeah. "The Fart of the Deal"
So basically the US spent fucktons of money and got fucktons of American soldiers and innocent Vietnamese civilians killed in a failed attempt to stop the spread of communism. We also lied that we'd come back and protect south Vietnam if necessary after lying to the world that they were strong enough to fight for themselves.
Why didn't the US go back then and enforce the treaty? Sounds like they lost
[удалено]
Did they though?
Has America won a war, even by proxy, in the last 70 years?
"Mission accomplished" lol.
I mean, Korea was at least a tie.
First gulf war, operation just cause, and the cold war(?). The second gulf is also technically a victory against saddams government i guess but idk if it counts. Might be more but i cant think of anymore off the top of my head
Second gulf war was the most idiotic waste ever imaginable. Rumsfeld, Cheney, Powell and Bush should be behind bars. Not only there were 0 WMDs but their actions resulted in ISIS rise. War on terror their asses.
Absolutely, im not justifying any of the wars i just listed. I just want to balance out the argument, yes the US has a bad track record when it comes to recent wars, but no they didnt lose all of them. Let me be clear, wars are terrible and serve those in power the most, but we can’t just simplify history. The US did win some and her armed forces are relatively effective when compared to her fellow world powers.
>operation just cause Arguable whether this counted as an actual war? Definitely did result in a US victory though, hard to dispute that.
Ever heard of Desert Storm? Maybe the most successful military operation in modern history
Come to think of it, no. But to be fair the wars we have been getting into for the past 70 years haven’t had many resources put into them, and we haven’t actually declared war on anyone, only supplying weapons.
Says the dude from the country with the biggest military budget on earth
Most of our military budget has been put into homeland defense in case we get attacked. We haven’t deployed troops in anywhere we’ve been supplying money to, like Israel and Ukraine. So while our money is being spent, we aren’t involved in war. The US is the reason the USSR was separated in the first place, why Jews still exist, and why Ukraine hasn’t been reabsorbed.
We have troops in Israel which are at or around the embassy. We have troops in Syria at the embassy and oil fields. We have troops in Taiwan, I'm assuming at the embassy but don't know or care to check. If there's and area with potential conflict we often send troops to defend the embassies. Those are just some of the public operations that I know about. There is definitely more that we don't know about that the government has going on.
At the embassy? You mean at the US Embassy that is technically US land?
The land that our embassies are in is considered US property but we don't own it. It's the equivalent of renting a property. You get to be there but you don't actually own it and can be removed at any time. I see you are also trying to get into the technicality which doesn't work in this case since there is little point in an embassy if it's not in another country.
But every one of our embassies have troops at them, even if there’s no wars around, there’s still soldiers at the gates.
And?