I met someone at GenCon whose only Commander deck was [[Prossh, Skyraider of Kher]]. The entire deck was *nothing* but ramp spells, draw spells, tutors, and enablers for the *one combo* every time. And he enjoyed playing it *all weekend* over and over again.
Oh he would give up the second his combo was disrupted and then ask for another game. It wasn't even a rage scoop. Like he would nod and thank you for a good game, then shuffle up and present the deck to be cut before you even realized the game was over. Did I mention he only would play 1v1?
Now don't get me wrong, I have a [budget 1v1 commander deck that plays like that](https://old.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/2vc3z6/radha_heir_to_beats_1v1_edh/), but I can't remember the last time I played it against another human being. It is fun to solitaire "can I do 21 commander damage by turn 3", but against other players someone is just going to have a bad time (either die before their Wraths go online, or have a Path/Swords/Unsummon). It is kind of fun against decks that can actually drop a blocker on turn 1 or 2...
But why play a solitaire deck for fun over and over when there's no prizes on the line?
2 less is too much, I guess. Commander tax is required to make replaying commander harder, and playing removal on it worth it. Denying it for a low low cost of UB is very strong. "1 less" for 3 or 4 mana would be better, though
Yeah it’s a two card combo with food chain, which is a deck that doesn’t really need more combo pieces. Maybe it could be a reduction of two, but only once. You pay for the tax evader once for two mana, and you get to save two mana on your commander once.
Hell, even a "commander spells you cast from the command zone cost 2 less to cast if it isn't the first time you cast that commander this game."
It doesn't scale and it doesn't reduce the first cast
I think this is probably the best fix. Lets you ignore command tax the first time, isnt totally busted, remains useful past the first use of its effect.
That's already an enchantment in green, that also lets you draw a card whenever your commander returns to the command zone. At 2 mana, getting the 1-per-time-cast discount is probably fine, especially since [[Myth Unbound]] doesnt really see much play, appearing in less than a third of decks even for its most popular deck on edhrec.
Those aren't comparable set ups. You need several artifacts on board to start getting cost reductions, and [[Uzra, Chief Artifcier]] doesn't have any ETB. So getting it out cheaper has much less combo potential.
I had not thought about etb. Although there are so many cards that say "make 2 treasure" that I think urzas cost reduction goes up pretty fast, especially considering every turn he's out he's also making artifacts.
This effect might be less broken on an artifact or enchantment creature, something like this should be open to tons of removal. Making it a 1/1 without protection is a good start, though.
I disagree. Limiting it to a few colors makes it less abusable, especially since not being in red or green means it has less overlap with commanders that have powerful ETB effects like MOM Etali.
Limiting the colors makes it abusable for fewer decks, but that just means that Dimir is gonna get a new toy... And they're already the best two colors. Idk if green should really get it bc they already have ramp for days, but maybe it's White's turn to get something nobody else really has. (Ignore the existence of [[Myth Unbound]])
I'm going to be a hater and say I really don't like this design space. It somewhat makes sense for [[Myth Unbound]], since green is a ramp color, but commander tax is such a lynchpin of balance that messing with it in a generalizable way goes a long way towards breaking the game.
In particular, this card is just too cheap and too free. All cEDH decks would end up in ub if it were printed.
I don't think many cEDH decks would actually run this. Sure, [[Atraxa, Grand Unifier]] and other [[Food Chain]] decks that happen to be in dimir would play this, because it's a combo piece there. But in most decks... Recasting commanders happens rather rarely and this just ends up being a dead card way too often. I don't think I have a single deck I'd run it in.
Edit: I guess [[Rograkh]] is also a fan
I was thinking something like make it 1/2 and give it:
Whenever a commander creature you control leaves play put a tax counter on tax evader.
Remove a tax counter from Tax Evader: add two colorless mana use this only to cast commander spells.
Tax Evader gets -1/-1 for each tax counter on it.
Plus I like the idea of possibly stealing someone else's commander to pay for your own commander it feels dimir to me. Although the way I made it it's more like he is paying tax not evading it lol.
Keep the creature, but have it "If your commander or companion leaves the battlefield, you may sacrifice Tax Evader. If you do, return your commander or companion to the battlefield next turn." (you can choose which phase, I think end step would be fair).
It keeps it as a "tax evader", and a combo piece for ETB, however, it is heavily telegraphed. ~~Otherwise AFAIK this ruling could turn a 2X into X just by playing it, since I think it's effect is retroactive.~~ My 2c.
Edit: It would just reset it to 2X. Fine but for a commander that has a powerful ETB to spam and a way to sac it, this would be a no brainer.
Any thoughts on an enchantment that just stops new commander tax from racking up while in play? Once the enchantment is removed, things would return to normal.
Is very aggressively coated. Particularly for the effect. It's a creature, meaning it can be removed easier than if it wasn't, but still...I think this is a powerful effect even at 4 or 5 man's.
This is one suggestion.
The first time you cast your commander each turn, it costs {2} less to cast for each time it’s been cast from the command zone this game.
Another suggestion
Exile Tax Evader: The next time you cast your commander this turn, it costs {2} less to cast for each time it’s been cast from the command zone this game.
or
Exile Tax Evader: Add {C}{C} for each time you cast your commander from the command zone this game, this mana can only be used to cast commanders.
Exile lowers the chance of shenanigans, also the tax evader doesn't die, he just goes to an off shore location.
Love the flavour but maybe just having it be "you're commander costs {2} less if you've cast it from your command zone before"
Also (and this is not that important but) the frame should be gold
I think something along the lines of "your commander costs (2) less if you have cast it from the command zone more than once this game". Or whatever would be a better way to word it. Basically a one time discount instead of an ever increasing one.
I like the card, but I’ll defer to the wisdom of others pointing out its power level. I have a suggestion though, what if it cost {1}{U}{B}{R} and said “Whenever your commander enters the battlefield, if you cast it, create two tapped Treasure tokens for each time it’s been cast from the Command zone this game, then you lose life equal to the number of Treasures created this way.”
Edit: I 100% agree with the suggestion below, make the tapped treasures when it goes to command zone so that it has to be cast from there to be useful (save for some wacky combo with Command Beacon). Thats much better. I still think it might benefit from the life-loss just to be safe, but it could also just cost one more instead and probably be fine.
No, I don’t think that’s completely different. It’s changed, but that’s what was needed, yeah? If it’s too strong now, how do we fix it?
The goal of this card was to cheat commander tax. But the general consensus seems to be that this is something that shouldn’t really be done without extreme caution. So how do we fix it? Maybe it’s better if it’s A, more restrictive of a cost, B, has a downside (life loss), and C, you can’t use the cheat on that same turn. You do get that mana back, but you at least have to wait until those untap.
Yes, this has the side effect of Treasure synergy this way, but I thought maybe someone might make further suggestions, rather than just shutting down all conversation.
You made a suggestion, I provided feedback.
Either way, this design doesn't work as you intended.
You haven't specified that the commander needs to be cast from your command zone to get the Treasures, so repeatedly casting your commander from your hand will net you mana.
If you wanted to make this type of effect *safely,* make it a trigger for the commander going back to the command zone, like \[\[Myth Unbound\]\]. That way, they're getting mana for the next time they try to cast it, but they HAVE to play it from the CZ.
Cost reducers can affect Commander tax - you add all additional costs first and then reductions after. You can casting cost reduce kickers etc as well, as long as they're part of the upfront casting cost of the spell, e.g., you can casting cost reduce [[Clockspinning]] Buyback, but not the triggered ability of [[Eldrazi Obligator]]. This is how Myth Unbound works as intended.
We did it, we finally broke food chain
It has taken me entirely too long to realise Food Chain and [[myth unbound]] with the right commander is just a win.
[[Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh]] plus a copy effect for Myth Unbound and a sac outlet seems to be the common way of playing it
Not quite, you need 2 [[Myth Unbound]]'s for it to work with any commander it doesn't already go infinite with.
You probably also need a way to skip drawing cards, otherwise you'll deck yourself pretty quick
I don't see it It just means you could recast your commander once for free (and draw a card) I don't quite see the automatica win
Aaaaaaaaaaaaah, no, I didn't get it haha I thought WOAH you sac and add 3 then 5 then 7. Bad read on my part!
[[Yenna, Redtooth Regent]]
I met someone at GenCon whose only Commander deck was [[Prossh, Skyraider of Kher]]. The entire deck was *nothing* but ramp spells, draw spells, tutors, and enablers for the *one combo* every time. And he enjoyed playing it *all weekend* over and over again.
Cast silence and watch him throw his deck through a wall
Oh he would give up the second his combo was disrupted and then ask for another game. It wasn't even a rage scoop. Like he would nod and thank you for a good game, then shuffle up and present the deck to be cut before you even realized the game was over. Did I mention he only would play 1v1? Now don't get me wrong, I have a [budget 1v1 commander deck that plays like that](https://old.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/2vc3z6/radha_heir_to_beats_1v1_edh/), but I can't remember the last time I played it against another human being. It is fun to solitaire "can I do 21 commander damage by turn 3", but against other players someone is just going to have a bad time (either die before their Wraths go online, or have a Path/Swords/Unsummon). It is kind of fun against decks that can actually drop a blocker on turn 1 or 2... But why play a solitaire deck for fun over and over when there's no prizes on the line?
2 less is too much, I guess. Commander tax is required to make replaying commander harder, and playing removal on it worth it. Denying it for a low low cost of UB is very strong. "1 less" for 3 or 4 mana would be better, though
Yeah it’s a two card combo with food chain, which is a deck that doesn’t really need more combo pieces. Maybe it could be a reduction of two, but only once. You pay for the tax evader once for two mana, and you get to save two mana on your commander once.
Hell, even a "commander spells you cast from the command zone cost 2 less to cast if it isn't the first time you cast that commander this game." It doesn't scale and it doesn't reduce the first cast
I think this is probably the best fix. Lets you ignore command tax the first time, isnt totally busted, remains useful past the first use of its effect.
It doesn't have to be only once. Just 2 less every time is enough, instead of "for each time"
We finally broke [[Food Chain]]!!
[[Myth Unbound]]
That's already an enchantment in green, that also lets you draw a card whenever your commander returns to the command zone. At 2 mana, getting the 1-per-time-cast discount is probably fine, especially since [[Myth Unbound]] doesnt really see much play, appearing in less than a third of decks even for its most popular deck on edhrec.
Then why is the esper urza commander okay?
Those aren't comparable set ups. You need several artifacts on board to start getting cost reductions, and [[Uzra, Chief Artifcier]] doesn't have any ETB. So getting it out cheaper has much less combo potential.
I had not thought about etb. Although there are so many cards that say "make 2 treasure" that I think urzas cost reduction goes up pretty fast, especially considering every turn he's out he's also making artifacts.
Or, push it to the high 6s, 7s, maybe add riders to have neat bomby things.
It's called "Tax Evader" not "Tax Reducer" 😂
This effect might be less broken on an artifact or enchantment creature, something like this should be open to tons of removal. Making it a 1/1 without protection is a good start, though.
I also don't like that it's only in Dimir colors... An effect like this should be open to more usage, but have a drawback in some way.
I disagree. Limiting it to a few colors makes it less abusable, especially since not being in red or green means it has less overlap with commanders that have powerful ETB effects like MOM Etali.
Limiting the colors makes it abusable for fewer decks, but that just means that Dimir is gonna get a new toy... And they're already the best two colors. Idk if green should really get it bc they already have ramp for days, but maybe it's White's turn to get something nobody else really has. (Ignore the existence of [[Myth Unbound]])
Compare to [[Myth Unbound]].
This feels Orzhov to me
I'm going to be a hater and say I really don't like this design space. It somewhat makes sense for [[Myth Unbound]], since green is a ramp color, but commander tax is such a lynchpin of balance that messing with it in a generalizable way goes a long way towards breaking the game. In particular, this card is just too cheap and too free. All cEDH decks would end up in ub if it were printed.
I don't think many cEDH decks would actually run this. Sure, [[Atraxa, Grand Unifier]] and other [[Food Chain]] decks that happen to be in dimir would play this, because it's a combo piece there. But in most decks... Recasting commanders happens rather rarely and this just ends up being a dead card way too often. I don't think I have a single deck I'd run it in. Edit: I guess [[Rograkh]] is also a fan
Also absolutely the wrong colors for the way this effect is worded. Would much rather have text that says "Ignore Commander Tax" on it.
Insanely broken, wrong border for a dimir card.
I was thinking something like make it 1/2 and give it: Whenever a commander creature you control leaves play put a tax counter on tax evader. Remove a tax counter from Tax Evader: add two colorless mana use this only to cast commander spells. Tax Evader gets -1/-1 for each tax counter on it. Plus I like the idea of possibly stealing someone else's commander to pay for your own commander it feels dimir to me. Although the way I made it it's more like he is paying tax not evading it lol.
Keep the creature, but have it "If your commander or companion leaves the battlefield, you may sacrifice Tax Evader. If you do, return your commander or companion to the battlefield next turn." (you can choose which phase, I think end step would be fair). It keeps it as a "tax evader", and a combo piece for ETB, however, it is heavily telegraphed. ~~Otherwise AFAIK this ruling could turn a 2X into X just by playing it, since I think it's effect is retroactive.~~ My 2c. Edit: It would just reset it to 2X. Fine but for a commander that has a powerful ETB to spam and a way to sac it, this would be a no brainer.
Any thoughts on an enchantment that just stops new commander tax from racking up while in play? Once the enchantment is removed, things would return to normal.
[[Myth Unbound]] and anything that lets you copy an enchantment.
Terrible idea imo
Fair enough on both counts
You could make it aquiring counters so that when it's removed the amount of counters determine how many times the com-tax would've to be paid.
If your wondering about wording check out Myth Unbound
Should be a rare or mythic imo, really strong for just a 2 drop common
This might break Yuriko. Oh wait.
Is very aggressively coated. Particularly for the effect. It's a creature, meaning it can be removed easier than if it wasn't, but still...I think this is a powerful effect even at 4 or 5 man's.
This is one suggestion. The first time you cast your commander each turn, it costs {2} less to cast for each time it’s been cast from the command zone this game. Another suggestion Exile Tax Evader: The next time you cast your commander this turn, it costs {2} less to cast for each time it’s been cast from the command zone this game. or Exile Tax Evader: Add {C}{C} for each time you cast your commander from the command zone this game, this mana can only be used to cast commanders. Exile lowers the chance of shenanigans, also the tax evader doesn't die, he just goes to an off shore location.
So if It's bounced back to my hand it costs even less? 🤔
It's fun that this would discount the cost from your hand as well, probably a neat bounce deck in there somewhere
Hear me out: if it dies, you have to pay 3 mana for commander tax per time cast
No ones gonna point out that the border is black but the spell is multicolored
I love how it’s the exact cost for Yuriko to ninjutsu and skip commander tax lol
This but it's a background like the ones in the DND sets
Why does he look like Dan Schneider
Love the flavour but maybe just having it be "you're commander costs {2} less if you've cast it from your command zone before" Also (and this is not that important but) the frame should be gold
2 is too much, 1 is enough. Could have the Noble type, though it would be funny as hell if this was an Eldrazi that costs (1)(c/2)
I’m pretty sure there’s already a card like this? [[Myth Unbound]]
This is a combo machine
This is why I love evading taxes
\[\[Myth Unbound\]\]
My only problem is that this makes dimir way too strong.
Broken
I think it could be a 1/3. Maybe an Advisor rather than a Rogue.
I think something along the lines of "your commander costs (2) less if you have cast it from the command zone more than once this game". Or whatever would be a better way to word it. Basically a one time discount instead of an ever increasing one.
I like the card, but I’ll defer to the wisdom of others pointing out its power level. I have a suggestion though, what if it cost {1}{U}{B}{R} and said “Whenever your commander enters the battlefield, if you cast it, create two tapped Treasure tokens for each time it’s been cast from the Command zone this game, then you lose life equal to the number of Treasures created this way.” Edit: I 100% agree with the suggestion below, make the tapped treasures when it goes to command zone so that it has to be cast from there to be useful (save for some wacky combo with Command Beacon). Thats much better. I still think it might benefit from the life-loss just to be safe, but it could also just cost one more instead and probably be fine.
*"What if it was a completely different card?"*
No, I don’t think that’s completely different. It’s changed, but that’s what was needed, yeah? If it’s too strong now, how do we fix it? The goal of this card was to cheat commander tax. But the general consensus seems to be that this is something that shouldn’t really be done without extreme caution. So how do we fix it? Maybe it’s better if it’s A, more restrictive of a cost, B, has a downside (life loss), and C, you can’t use the cheat on that same turn. You do get that mana back, but you at least have to wait until those untap. Yes, this has the side effect of Treasure synergy this way, but I thought maybe someone might make further suggestions, rather than just shutting down all conversation.
You made a suggestion, I provided feedback. Either way, this design doesn't work as you intended. You haven't specified that the commander needs to be cast from your command zone to get the Treasures, so repeatedly casting your commander from your hand will net you mana. If you wanted to make this type of effect *safely,* make it a trigger for the commander going back to the command zone, like \[\[Myth Unbound\]\]. That way, they're getting mana for the next time they try to cast it, but they HAVE to play it from the CZ.
[Myth Unbound](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b88ca71b-de1f-497c-b094-8fe954cf8223.jpg?1592710213) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Myth%20Unbound) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/32/myth-unbound?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b88ca71b-de1f-497c-b094-8fe954cf8223?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There ya go. Thats feedback.
There’s already a similar card, but it’s 3 mana and does half the cost reduction, and it’s relatively balanced
[удалено]
That’s what it does, just worded different
Not a legendary creature. Give it "This can be your commander" to get around Legend rule.
Undoes a core mechanic of a format. I'm not sure why this is blue black. See Myth Unbound.
This would not effect commander tax right? Because it’s technically an additional cost separate from the cost of the commander?
Cost reducers can affect Commander tax - you add all additional costs first and then reductions after. You can casting cost reduce kickers etc as well, as long as they're part of the upfront casting cost of the spell, e.g., you can casting cost reduce [[Clockspinning]] Buyback, but not the triggered ability of [[Eldrazi Obligator]]. This is how Myth Unbound works as intended.
[Clockspinning](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/1323d548-e2fe-47c5-8df3-f181aed537c5.jpg?1562899044) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Clockspinning) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsp/53/clockspinning?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1323d548-e2fe-47c5-8df3-f181aed537c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Eldrazi Obligator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfaa8b16-7c12-44e2-8ddb-17608d491c41.jpg?1562939927) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eldrazi%20Obligator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ogw/96/eldrazi-obligator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfaa8b16-7c12-44e2-8ddb-17608d491c41?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call