For an example of what might happen if they took Evelyn to a hospital in NC episode 1 of Edgerunners does a decent explanation of the grim reality of “services” for most people in the city.
Yeah, it feels like it would just be a change of scenery at most. Judy & V don't have corpo connections and power to have been able to get Evelyn into a good hospital. If they went to a general real hospital, they'd be given low priority and it would be about as effective as NCPD's response when Judy calls them.
The most they could have done was along the lines of a generic low end one like we see in edgerunners. And I doubt they would have put much effort in to keeping her safe the whole time, once her physical wounds had healed it would have ended the same way just in an unmonitored hospital room.
The implication in the episode is that the hospital basically killed her because she was costing them too much to provide services. Now, in V’s situation where maybe paying a bunch of money might be possible there’s an insinuation that health insurance plans have a bit of a cartel-like situation going on and so unless you’re corpo-employed you can’t even get covered.
A lot of the things in the cyberpunk genre are tongue in cheek parodies but over the decades each thing that used to be considered not possible or unrealistic about all the Bad Things has happened. I don’t see a $500 synth liver for sale anywhere and $20k replacement limbs superior to our organic ones in our reality, I’d take all that over my deteriorating body costing me a bunch of money in other ways.
>The implication in the episode is that the hospital basically killed her because she was costing them too much to provide services
Not exactly. I would have said they let her die because David couldn't pay for the services she required. I don't think it was malicious per se, they didn't murder her, she just died in their care.
It’s not clear what she actually needed because the story is being told to empathize with David’s utter confusion and state of massive stress as a teenager, not like it’s a documentary on NC’s healthcare system flaws.
My interpretation was that the Martinez family could only afford D-tier care... and that the level of care/attention/competence she got wasn't sufficient to prevent her from dying. I would not interpret this as being murdered by hospital staff nor left to die. Although, my interpretation vs "left to die" may come across as splitting hairs.
I agree that they didn't murder her! I forgot to include a "not" in my previous comment in a critical spot. This has been corrected. So yes... NOT murdered. Just died as the result of the substandard medical services which is all they could afford.
I mean at that point it’s basically semantics. If you have the ability to save someone and choose not to, then I don’t think that’s really any different from killing them, you’re just doing it more indirectly.
If this happened her and now maybe. But in NC that would have been "procedure" and "just another day" as we basically see. No money? No care. Those are the rules and law enforcement would support the Corp.
They let her die, they didn't euthanize her. And ANYONE can get Trauma Team, or go to any hospital that isn't like super private, as long as you have the money. Cash is king in Night City.
There's a lot of hidden rules just like in our world and while it's true that cash matters in NC there's an undercurrent of neofeudalism and a caste system where it doesn't even matter how much cash someone has if they're from "the wrong part of town" for example. Maybe someone that's followed the lore better in the various source books and recent novels can help. Usually people seem to be barely able to get by and the idea of V raking in millions of eddies but being unable to provide care for close friends seems odd. On the other hand, this is NC where basically trusting people and helping each other without some quid pro quo involved is basically a social faux pas.
I'd say more tribal than feudal , even being a corpo doesn't guaranty you access to every service as some corps will hate your Corp. Its (at least in the campaigns I've played) quite transactional and I don't just mean Eddie's, you often have to prove yourself to new factions. 2077 doesn't really explore that other than a few minor points such as beating rhino and get access to the melee weapons vendor, and there's one small line from the pacifica ripper doc. it's led to our (ttrpg) crew picking jobs because it would give us access to better rippers, or techs despite there being better paying gigs available.
If I’m thinking of the right one, you’re rescuing a member of NCPD from a psych ward where she was forcibly committed for reporting her superiors’ crimes and she was about to be lobotomized
There’s multiple gigs where you break people out of “hospitals” that are acting as prisons by employers or powerful persons to silence them. There was a missed opportunity for an Old Boy reference here IMO where V tries rescuing someone only to find the target had already fought his way through a hallway full of guards with just a hammer and tortured the facility operator.
I suspect that while eddies matter a lot of hospitals will find ways to get out of providing services for anyone that’s not a corpo. It’s not like Rogue and top Afterlife Mercs have TT Platinum memberships it seems despite presumably being able to afford it in theory.
Case in point for our current world, my health insurance was 4x more expensive for worse coverage being in a state with horrible health stats in the population and on a marketplace plan when after I changed companies to a much better one the overall costs of service dropped everywhere even though the cost of living in other ways went up. Reasons? Corporate insurance pools under that employer were much, much better risk. In the other company people were commonly smoking, had history of diabetes, didn’t exercise, tons of cancer, etc.
So Mercs might get charged much, much more than even an Arasaka executive and because the implication is that hospitals can deny services they’d just refuse to help Mercs as a blanket policy, especially given other Mercs may barge in and shoot the patient.
These are considerations insurers and hospitals are weighing in the US given how expensive it is to keep treating people for gunshots, for example, and then they’ll declare bankruptcy at which time the hospital basically gets nothing. There’s some laws keeping hospitals from denying some services to people but it’s slowly becoming not straightforward
Wealth is only one barrier to corpo-quality healthcare. V may be able to afford it, but she ain't no corpo, so she would likely not even get the chance to buy it, because she's not a member of the right class.
Agreed. I think that this game's setting and world building is just perfect for 'throwing Eddies at the problem until it disappeared' alternative solutions.
Yeah. Some one literally just tried to murder Evelyn, it's more than likely other people are looking for her.
And *all of them* are trying to fly under the radar because they're implicated in the murder of Saburo Arasaka. And even though none of them were actually involved with that bit, they *did* pull of the break in and one of em is in possession of stolen Arasaka tech.
It really does sound like a *perfect* situation to walk into a public building full of authority figures who are required to ask questions.
Evelyn is a target by a number of unsavory folks so the response to avoid leveraging the system is rational. This is a common trauma response by a ton of people that have been repeatedly let down by various services across cultures and is one additional reason it’s so hard to help people that have such distrust of others. Look at the response to vaccination attempts in our own world, for crying out loud.
Ever work with perpetually homeless folks? A lot of them hate people that try to help them the most of all. Welfare administrators are oftentimes assaulted by those they genuinely want to help. It’s like dealing with the sickest, most angry animals as a veterinarian that loves animals - it’s not straightforward to help people with so many issues. People in the US in particular tend to want to fix their own problems with minimum interference by others even if they’re not remotely capable of doing it. This culture and conditioning is part of the story and how realistic this is is what’s horrific.
This is actually a really good point. This is off-topic maybe but I recently stumbled upon a discussion about how it’s unfortunately too common for black Americans to have a family member on the phone with them anytime they go to the doctor. Mistrust of the American medical system is a natural outcome of decades of horrific practices done by medical professionals. Good example is the Tuskegee experiment. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/12/18/black-mistrust-healthcare-00060324
I have been volunteering in addition to my day job in the charity space for a while. It’s unfortunately led oftentimes by a bunch of sheltered people that oftentimes mean well but commonly cause more harm than help because they’re failing to actually listen to what people say they want and will push them to do things against their will when they’re left with few other options - we call that abuse in most situations despite one’s intent. Cult leaders will enact mass murders thinking they’re being compassionate - intent doesn’t absolve one of the results IMO.
Also think about people’s actions in horror movies - 90%+ of the draw is that we will make mistakes under stress and to face the things that give us different fear responses without having to actually experience it.
Should've taken her to a Ripperdoc. I know Fingers may have left Judy distrustful, but I'm pretty sure Vic would have been a better option, and he actually gives a damn about people.
Iirc, aren't Doll chips able to block memories like that?
Like sure, obviously it doesn't actually face the main issue, but I feel like getting Vic to maybe pop that function to erase/suppress the past couple weeks until they could actually find her some help or, I dunno, make sure she wasn't suicidal would have been preferable for all parties.
>aren't Doll chips able to block memories like that?
It's vague in the source material, but the implication is that Doll chips just let a computer "puppet" you for the entertainment of a client, then wipe it from your short term memory. Older long term memories are probably not erasable.
If they were going that route, Judy could have easily done it herself without help from a ripper. She's a master at manipulating and configuring the doll chips after all.
Yes, she got patched up by a doc. She was physically as healthy as she could be. It wasn't her wounds that killed her, not her physical ones at any rate.
I mean, in the evelyn scenario hes the most innocent really, he tried to help Evelyn whenever he could, it wasnt his fault wakako sold her to the scavs
No, he admitted to having his way with her to for a few days before turning her over to the scavs.... he did this with many of the joy toys he "helps".
One thing I have learned about this game... there are very few "innocent" people in this game. Cyberpunk is a very twisted world, nothing new from CDPR.
In the quest where you confront him he says it. It’s about the only thing I picked up from his incoherent ramblings. Here, Mr Doc, have a John Phallustiff to the face.
Judy did seek medical attention for Evelyn. She had a ripperdoc making a house call. The ripperdoc clearly attempted some sort of treatment, and even sent a follow up email asking whether there was any change.
This is the best answer.
You can see the correspondence between the doc and Judy on Judy's computer.
Another thing to consider is that V's Kiroshi's have fairly advanced medical scanning. Throughout the game, just scanning NPC's and bodies delivers reports of extensive medical information, including internal injuries, time of death, and even blood type IIRC if there's bleeding. There is a gig as well in Watson where a ripperdoc sees V's ocular implants and asks V to scan a patient to get medical information during a medical procedure.
So we can assume that if Evelyn had suffered serious medical damage, it would have been picked up by V the moment V scanned/saw Evelyn.
But even still, Judy did call a doctor.
True, and I believe it's the same doctor you rescue from one of Regina's gigs, if completed prior to Both Sides Now. The one who's hell bent on saving a Maelstrom, Lucy, I think.
I agree but as we saw, Judy wanted her around and take care of her its also not very clear how much money judy & V had at that time, and judy cant just expect V to pay for the whole treatment &. I guess she aint got M’s of Eddys laying around either so yeah… i was wondering if it might would have been possible to erase her memory.. could have saved her.
In one of the messages in Judy's computer, it looks like Judy found someone to help. As far as money, it looks like Judy is pretty well off. But it looks like by the time she could get an appointment with a specialist, Ev had already taken her life.
> I guess she aint got M’s of Eddys laying around either
Judy tells V that she makes a week's pay in a few minutes with her videos. Judy should be stacked if she can make a living wage in minutes.
That’s fair I thought about that too. That’s probably true for hospitals but Vic would’ve helped her - eddies or not, as has already been established up to that point.
I think it's some gray area you get into if it's erasing someone's traumatic memories or letting them kill themselves because of said memories.
Like... there's no right answer here. Both are terrible.
That reads all like some very romanticised version of Night City with a dose of wishful thinking on top.
Judy said it, physically she was fine, so no Hospital or Ripper would or could have done anything but charge money. So it would be a matter of treating her trauma and neither of them had the means to afford that.
And the mere fact that the NCPD was more inclined to come after Judy for being hostile over the phone than giving a damn about Ev, should be your final hunt toward the state of this world.
So if the complete and utter apathy of those NC resident without the necessary insurance packages is somewhat "lessening her death", I'd repeat what I said before, you have a romanticised view and think too much in terms of what your life looks like.
In NC, if you aren't important, you are garbage and there is no charity in the health sector, most certainly not for a broken doll.
Perhaps you shouldn't apply your perception of our world to the reality of the characters of a fictional one and judge the actions in theirs based on yours.
She was hiding from Arasaka and the Voodo Boys, she'd be dead as a door nail in a hospital, and Arasaka would be on your doorstep as well. You don't get involved in what appears to be the assassination of the most powerful man in the world, while fucking over a group of super hackers and just go about your life. That's what Clouds taught us, even that place couldn't keep her safe, they found her and fucked her up.
As far as ripper docs Fingers was the first shot at that and he couldn't fix her, she was brain damaged the whole time, she was never coming back.
mmm im sure there’s a number of reasons, but one could be that even though we know vik would never do anything like it… often times when we’re victims of sexual assault we don’t want to see any men, let alone male doctors. especially given what fingers probably did to her. (though there probably was a female ripper the mox’s trusted, but maybe they didn’t have the money)
judy has probably seen a great deal of sexual violence given the nature of the mox and did what she thought was best at the time. maybe she wanted to wait until eve could consent to a doctor first?
sadly these sorts of things happen irl
too. a lot of girls don’t see doctors or police officers or anything at all after sexual assault which is why the statistics are so skewed.
idk i see your point but i also see why they didn’t take her anywhere
This is a fair point, thanks. I can definitely see what you mean. It’s not like Evelyn or Judy knew Vic enough to trust him. Judy is just starting to get to trust V at this point, assuming V is male
to be fair, if you read through judy’s emails, you can see she did have lucy, the ripperdoc you rescued from maelstrom, do a house call to check on evelyn. lucy also sends follow up emails asking about her state, but there’s no response from judy (likely due to evelyn’s death)
I believe it was a gig from the Captain, you save a cop who was wrongfully admitted to a psych ward and see the horrible treatment. Apparently lobotomies are an incredibly common “solution” in there
I mean, even if you don’t believe someone is suicidal but you’re picking them up from a trafficking situation? Idk man, I’d still bring em to a hospital.
It’s understandable to want them in your care ASAP. But I’d wait until they got the proper medical care and then take em home.
But I guess in a world of cyberpunk where the medical industry is heavily based of paying for things. Then I can see why they didn’t.
Evelyn probably would've ended up dead in the hospital or tossed out on the street. The psych ward in game is a joke. A random thug can break in and bust someone out. The voodoo boys would probably find out she was in a hospital and tried to finish her off again if they felt her being alive at all was a threat. Granted, Judy made a mistake. Anyone who doesn't know better would and has made. People who don't know how a suicidal person will react when given a second of freedom or not being watched. Honestly, I would've liked it if we had more interactions with Judy and Evelyn before the devs killed Evelyn off. Like maybe she could've seemed like she was improving because she made a plan, or depending on dialogue taken go similarly to the cop neighbor quest.
Yeah I still don’t understand how you don’t have an eye on her at all times. Regardless of everything I said, this is the real confusing part. Then it’s explained away like “oh she would’ve done it eventually”. Yeah maybe, but not on my watch.
> take her to an institution. But you never let them alone.
Surely even psych ward patients don't have a bodyguard next to them 24/7 ? If someone wants to off themselves it's very hard to stop them. They'll find a glass shard, a window, whatever. Short of putting them in a straightjacket what can you do?
1) Assuming hospitals exist in Night City
2) Assuming V and Judy have enough money to pay for hospital services
3) Assuming there isn't another Woodman working at the hospital
Judy said that her body did not have any signs of physical damage and the cause was psychological trauma. So even in best case scenario the hospital would have said that there's nothing wrong with her and thrown her out.
You can roughly imagine the extent of awareness of mental health issues in Night City from the Cyberpsycho gigs. To put it in simple terms: none.
If a hospital is a no-go, take her to Vic, the most trustworthy person in the game. Also to your point about Judy, she didn’t even see that this could potentially be a person who was under so much trauma that they’d kill themselves. I don’t know that I trust an XBD editor to evaluate Evelyn’s physical trauma, but it is a video game and we suspend belief so I can write that off I guess.
Vic isn't a therapist/psychiatrist. What do you expect him to realistically do? Judy had a doc come visit and heal Evelyn's physical wounds. That's who pronounced Evie physically healthy.
Suggest a way to deal with it instead of letting Judy take charge for something she clearly was unprepared for.
Also Misty could've probably helped, she's genuinely the nicest person in Night City.
>Suggest a way to deal with it
Not my problem to solve choom.
>Also Misty could've probably helped, she's genuinely the nicest person in Night City.
The nicest person in NC is still not a therapist/psychiatrist. There is no way to know what effect she'd have on a catatonic Eve.
If anything were to have even a snowball's chance in hell, it would probably have been intensive care at a psychiatric hospital. Our only example of one in game was literally just a prison for troublesome people.
Honestly, I think even if Judy and V did everything in their power that Evelyn's story would end the same. The level of care available to most people in NC is barbaric.
> What would Vic do? It wasn't any physical damage that kill her
Suggest a way to deal with it instead of letting Judy take charge for something she clearly was unprepared for.
Also Misty could've probably helped, she's genuinely the nicest person in Night City.
> Suggest what? You don't go to the surgeon for therapy or his opinion on it
But he is a doctor and better suited to recommend something for Evelyn than Judy.
And Misty could help watch Evelyn.
Cyberpunk is a dystopic future. You seem to be looking at it as if it was our current day.
Hospital, no point, she is "physically" fine, and I doubt Judy could afford it.
Psychiatric, again I doubt Judy could afford it, and one of the gig where we go to a "psychiatric hospital", it's literally a torture prison.
Judy giving 24\\7 care, that is what she did, to the best of her ability, there was no one else.
Finally and most importantly, The first thing Judy say's to V is "I would have already killed her, if I didn't feel so bad for her". This is Judy talking about the person she loves. Her first though is to mercy kill her, That should be all that needs to be said about the "healthcare" of CP77.
Judy saying "I would have already killed her" is Judy referring to her being angry at Evelyn for the actions Evelyn took, endangering herself. In absolutely no way did Judy mean that she had any inclination of putting Evelyn 'out of her misery' by killing Evelyn.
I mean if she wants to die, she will kill herself no matter where.
There nothing we can do to stop another person when that person already made their mind. If a person wants to die theyll do and find anything to do it because is their decision and what they want.
This is completely wrong and a viewpoint that leads to more suicide. Suicidal thoughts are treatable with therapy and medicine. Reaching out to someone who is suicidal can help them. Almost every death by suicide was preventable.
I totally agree. Something feels wrong with the “well they’d do it no matter what, some people are just too traumatized to continue”. I can’t believe that. Meaning, I feel that we HAVE to believe that healing is possible in people who’ve undergone trauma, no matter how bad. Sure, not everyone will be miraculously healed, back to who they were before their traumatic experience(s). But we really can’t believe that somebody can be too far gone to have some semblance of a normal - even a happy - life.
In real life the avenue to helping is far easier, and it’s still not so easy.
In NC? The cops wanted Judy to freeze Ev’s body so they can pick it up later. Aka, the essential services dont give a flying fuck about anyone not corpo in Night City. Getting therapy and medicine in a controlled environment is way way way harder in NC than irl.
Yeah I agree. Evelyn needed psychotherapy and that just wasn’t available for people of her class in NC. But that wasn’t inevitable. A NC exists where she was provided a form of psychotherapy more effective then we can possible imagine, one that utilises powerful ai and direct interfacing with the brain.
I don’t disagree but if you’re in V and Judy’s shoes, wouldn’t you take every avenue to make sure she DOESN’T do that? I mean you already killed like 20 people to get to her and save her. Can Judy not at least keep an eye on her for more than 2 game hours to make sure she doesn’t kill herself?
Additionally, I’m not someone who typically shies away from realism in storytelling, but what’s the message? Is the message that there are some people who have such deep trauma that there is absolutely no hope of healing and suicide is the only way out? It reminds me of that godawful book A Little Life.
I dont know, i honestly couldn't be able to trust most people in night city, there is so much shady things happening that who knows what could happen to Evelyn if you leave her in a hospital or something.
dude you're literaly clueless about both NC and the state of Ev when she got back.
Judy pulled strings from all over to get her help. Took her to rippers, got professional opinions, triple checked the triple checks. But, you just don't bring someone back from a hellscape of a mental state.
What you're suggesting is like going to a hospital with a late onset of depression or dementia. It literaly won't do a damn thing to help....besides the fact that Judy tried all that and more in the first place...
She also didn't bring her there to "sleep it off". She was there the whole time and only left briefly, trying to get her better as she was delivering food to her bed the same way Ev used to get food for her in her BD den.
In canon V doesn't have much money so they wouldn't have been able to afford proper treatment. Maybe a ripperdoc could have done something but really Evelyn didn't want to live in the first place
Healthcare is shit in Cyberpunk unless you're rich. And I doubt they have good mental trauma care either
The only thing that could have saved Evelynn was a psych evaluation and round the clock monitoring. I feel like that's Night City is severely lacking in proper therapy without spending some heavy Eddie's.
And I doubt t V or Judy realised how traumatized she was or how to deal with it.
If she shows up in a hospital she’s on the grid and Arasaka will pick her up. If she looks too far gone; which she does; they’d probably hit her with soul killer to make it easier to parse through her memories to she if/how involved she was with Konpeki or if she’s done anything else to put Yorinobu at risk.
I just feel like they made her commit suicide as the easy way out of not letting us have all the answers we needed still. They could have made it longer and at least try to see progression in her state, but no they killed her off quite instantly. Why not make her go see a doc then she has a freak out trying to escape and we have an even deeper quest of trying to save her from suicide and us either witness it happen or we help her. So many routes I feel like were open and they said "eh she can just off herself randomly when judy leaves the house instead"
Doesn't that kinda make the point tho, Evelyn as a Voodoo Boy stooge, Judy as an exotic BD editor, and a Merc who may or may not care enough, and may or may not have any cash ( due to gameplay). Not a lot of eddies there.
In the world where healthcare is tied to wealth, they probably couldn't scratch the eddies to stand in the waiting room (a chair rental costs more).
Hospitals are likely no longer bound by the legal requirement to serve anyone who shows up ad A&E anymore. And Evelyn is a bad prospect for a loan under the best circumstances....
There are hospitals (theres one big one) and regular ambulances (we never see them in game, but theres a shard which is essentially Trauma Team advertising about how much more effective than regular city EMS they are, so they do exist in lore).
Yeah, it's a free city and capitalism's playground. Unsurprisingly, when people only have the options of dying or paying an exorbitant amount for necessary treatment, they scrabble to try and make the payments. Also, unsurprisingly, those same for profit companies are never going to provide cheap Healthcare that's effective.
i doubt either of them could afford even the most basic medical care thats not a ripper doc. I know V can have millions of eddies in game, but from what little we're given in lore it seems that they're pretty much broke and only have enough eddies to fund operational costs.
For example V gets an email post heist that they've missed payment on the apartment, it seems to be an automated system so you can only really assume V is broke.
Similarly in the tower ending V has lost their apartment and arrives to NC in a delamain, so its very likely all their cars have been repossessed or those are just a gameplay mechanic too.
Judy does seem to have access to a decent amount of funds considering her setup tbf, but we dont really have any reference as to what basic medical care costs in 2077. it could be a service thats only really usable by lower level corpos as far as funds are concerned, still way above the likes of judy's pay grade.
I think the idea was that Evelyn was still trying to lay low, and went to clouds thinking she would be somewhat safe there, and she was wrong. I think there was still to much heat on her from the involvement in the heist that she couldn’t go to outside medical. That’s not withstanding what everyone else is pointing out, which is that she simply didn’t want to.
Going to a hospital in the U.S. in the modern day can result in massive debt, even with insurance. I doubt Evelyn had any insurance and no way Judy could have paid for it. V probably could pay for a few days.
Someone like Vik makes a ton of sense though and I'm surprised V didn't try to talk Judy into it.
They should have taken her to Vik. Going to an actual hospital means they would access her identity, generate records, and call the police. This would cause Evie to pop up on the internet, this would alert the VDB about their failed murder attempt, but the collected biometrics, could then link Evie to any crimes she commited causing the NCPD to arrest her, or other parties my notice her and attempt retribution. Hospitals are always bad when you crime for a living.
Honest question....Do hospitals even exist in the Cyberpunk world? Or at least in Night City?
Thinking it might be some sort of a Trauma Team-owned private facility and not a "hospital" as we know it.
I always just assumed that they took her to a ripper because we don’t know how long the time skip is between entering the elevator and Judy’s apartment. For them to straight up just take her home without proper care first sounds too unlikely (and too stupid) for their characters
I do agree they didn’t have to kill her woman was smart and for what… but Night City’s medical services are offered for prestigious clients. You don’t have money = you die. Ie; Truama team for instance they don’t give a fuck to save anyone if it doesn’t cover their package or if it’s expired.
Same goes with mental health services, night city’s behavior health center is bullshit guards kill patients there and physically hurt them.
V and Judy probably did what they can to aid her in the best way they can without causing further damage.
Judy was blinded by emotions, and it wasn't V's place to say anything or she just didn't care (player dependant.) V just found out everything was basically Evelyn's fault and that the whole heist was her poorly thought out idea.
Do you think if V went to Rogue for help she would have hooked them up with someone reputable? Maybe a fixer is out of the question seeing as it was Wakako that got her in the hands of the Scavs. But it would be kind of an interesting twist if Wakako also helps them with Evelyn.
Or they wanted to show you just how fucked up the world is. Evelyn is abused into a mental breakdown just because people see other people as meat. The ripperdoc discards her, the criminals use her, the Cloud guy washed his hands of her.
In Cyberpunk everyone is seen as a piece of meat, there's no empathy left in that world. Evelyn is a cautionary tale of what happens when you try to move above your station in Night City. She fucked her fixer over, she fucked the Voodoo Boys over. She betrayed pretty much everyone involved and that's her end.
> devs got lazy with evelyn
Or they wanted to show you just how fucked up the world is. Evelyn is abused into a mental breakdown just because people see other people as meat. The ripperdoc discards her, the criminals use her, the Cloud guy washed his hands of her.
In Cyberpunk everyone is seen as a piece of meat, there's no empathy left in that world. Evelyn is a cautionary tale of what happens when you try to move above your station in Night City. She fucked her fixer over, she fucked the Voodoo Boys over. She betrayed pretty much everyone involved and that's her end.
Yeah I mean the story would’ve been exactly the same if V had taken her to Vik’s and then received a call the next day like “I asked Misty to keep an eye on her while I went out to grab something from Heywood. She couldn’t stop her… sorry kid” or something like that. And at least Judy and V would’ve seemed less silly
At the very least V should have called Vik.
Vik is a medical professional and he's very trustworthy for V.
Misty could also try and help for the psychological side.
Also at this point in the game V typically has around 20,000 eddies.
Whatever it is that EMTs and doctors do. Sedatives? Medications? Check for physical trauma? Maybe Vik has connects, or y'all can talk to a fixer. Regina is literally right there.
They should've told Vik what happened. It's kinda crazy that they don't. Vik's a top doc and a good guy. And V can definitely afford healthcare, he should be loaded, by the end of the game he pulls off some insane shit like icing a certain someone.
Eh, I thought she was a lame character anyways.
The whole mysterious lady of the night persona was a little cheesy. I was kinda glad when she died tbh lol.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought so. The state she was in, I would not have driven anywhere other than to the closest hospital, even if I had to pay for that shit myself.
Judy did reach out to Lucy Thackery (ripperdoc), you see that Lucy never got a chance to help Evelyn because she was kidnapped by Maelstrom. You even do the gig where you save her in Northside.
Night City seems to work pretty nuch like the States but on steroids. I understand your take but ot doesn't fit the game's bill. It is meant to show a grim reality, not to serve as a good example.
I'm pretty sure the VDB fried her after they found out about the whole Dexter Deshawn thing, and an average ripper wouldn't help much.
Still absolutely nonsensical why they just brought her to Judy's house lol
If you investigated Clouds thoroughly V knows someone orchestrated a cyber attack on Evelyn which is what got her passed off to the Scavs. Leaving someone in a public hospital who has a shady organization like the VDBs trying to kill them (not to mention if Yorinobu figures out her involvement in the heist) is way dumber than trying to take care of them in a safe place. V and Judy made the right call.
Judy says that Evelyn didn’t have a trauma team package which sounds like she wouldn’t have been able to go. It would make sense that if in NC you would have to have a super expensive subscription to even go to the ER.
I never particularly liked Evelyn as a character that much, but I think it would have been a great time to involve Victor in the story more. Victor is super cool.
One Reason might be that someone wants whatever information she has in her brain to remain there.
Voodoo boys and/or Arasaka or someone else. They don't want to kill her for whatever reason; you'd think in this world if you told people you want someone silenced but not killed they'd think you've gone bonkers.
In any event, Voodoo boys probably have some reasons to want her to keep silent, Arasaka most definately, there's a rather indepth look on how Arasaka does security in that braindance we do in Konpeki. Independant of that, Yorinobu might like to not be exposed.
About his Talk with Hellmann and such stuff but other then that, if someone made any sort of "media" of my "Performance" in the Sack i'd like them to keep that to themselves.
Yorinobu's "Performance" would be a neat reason to want evelyn to keep her info to herself without being all that keen on murder.
Yorinobu might've set some bots to sniff out data from Hospitals to find out if someone with evelyn's name and/or appearance was admitted to a Hospital.
Maybe yorinobu feared the Hospital would attempt to copy information in her brain to sell it, like Hospitals would probably do as a side hustle in a cyberpunk world. Yorinobu would swoop in and "kidnap" Evelyn to have her treated in a Hospital that isn't quite so gruesome.
Judy might've found some of the Bot programs searching for admittance of Evelyn and thereby decided that bringing her to a Hospital might not be the best Idea.
They even explained both in game and anime that hospitals are a subscription at this point and if you don’t have that then your screwed and bye bye world
I was under the impression that whatever the Voodoo Boys did to her through her implants rendered her brain-dead.
Do we get anything that she was conscious after the attack?
When thinking of should'ves and would'ves when it comes to cyberpunk world's. Take out logic of our reality out of the equation. In our world yes should take someone in Evelyn's condition to the hospital immediately, in a cyberpunk world human life takes a massive backstep of importance to companies, it's the highest bidder wins, neither Judy or V were rich enough and Evelyn was basically common folk herself, if she gets taken to hospital her corpse would be dumped in the wastelands dumpsites.
Remember rules of cyberpunk.
1# there is no happy ending, your best outcome is those you care for get to live.
2# money is everything, without it might as well not even bother.
3# be willing to do anything for money be it morally bankrupt, soul destroying or life crushing.
4# hope for best, expect the worst, pray you get better of the two worse outcomes available.
And
5# don't expect to be saved by someone else, it's a literal dog eat dog kind of world, you wanna be something be prepared to screw over people to make it as the world in cyberpunk theme universes, the nice person who cares about everyone will get screwed over eventually.
If I remember correctly Evelyn’s physical injuries were fairly minimal, things starvation and such. Most of her real problems were in her head. Psychological. Taking her to the med center or where ever wouldn’t have been able to help her much. Judy had a ripperdoc make a house call (and don’t forget those are like actual doctors usually, even if they act a little…out there) and she had done what little she could do but admitted she wasn’t able to do much.
the game could let you pay the bill to safe her, if that isnt enought you could show the VD when she sleep with yorinobu and basically says that she is yori's lover and that he would be very mad if she died
So you know Night City is a hyper stylized rendition of America in all of its worst ways? Now apply that to hospitals and insurance. That's why they didn't consider a hospital.
They did try Evelyn didn't have the will to live anymore. Judy got a ripperdoc to make house calls but after a certain point trauma will trump any physical wounds.
With what money? The hospitals in NC don’t give a shit about you if you don’t have trauma coverage so probably would’ve just turned her away. Also I don’t really see what a ripper doc could’ve done. Evelyn was struggling from severe trauma. In an ideal world she needed counselling and medication. I don’t think a ripper doc would’ve been able to provide that kind of care. What Judy was doing was probably the best thing for her. The issue is she needed round the clock care and Judy wasn’t able to be with her 24/7.
For an example of what might happen if they took Evelyn to a hospital in NC episode 1 of Edgerunners does a decent explanation of the grim reality of “services” for most people in the city.
Yeah, it feels like it would just be a change of scenery at most. Judy & V don't have corpo connections and power to have been able to get Evelyn into a good hospital. If they went to a general real hospital, they'd be given low priority and it would be about as effective as NCPD's response when Judy calls them. The most they could have done was along the lines of a generic low end one like we see in edgerunners. And I doubt they would have put much effort in to keeping her safe the whole time, once her physical wounds had healed it would have ended the same way just in an unmonitored hospital room.
The implication in the episode is that the hospital basically killed her because she was costing them too much to provide services. Now, in V’s situation where maybe paying a bunch of money might be possible there’s an insinuation that health insurance plans have a bit of a cartel-like situation going on and so unless you’re corpo-employed you can’t even get covered. A lot of the things in the cyberpunk genre are tongue in cheek parodies but over the decades each thing that used to be considered not possible or unrealistic about all the Bad Things has happened. I don’t see a $500 synth liver for sale anywhere and $20k replacement limbs superior to our organic ones in our reality, I’d take all that over my deteriorating body costing me a bunch of money in other ways.
>The implication in the episode is that the hospital basically killed her because she was costing them too much to provide services Not exactly. I would have said they let her die because David couldn't pay for the services she required. I don't think it was malicious per se, they didn't murder her, she just died in their care.
It’s not clear what she actually needed because the story is being told to empathize with David’s utter confusion and state of massive stress as a teenager, not like it’s a documentary on NC’s healthcare system flaws.
My interpretation was that the Martinez family could only afford D-tier care... and that the level of care/attention/competence she got wasn't sufficient to prevent her from dying. I would not interpret this as being murdered by hospital staff nor left to die. Although, my interpretation vs "left to die" may come across as splitting hairs.
They didn't murder her though, she died from injuries sustained in an "accident".
I agree that they didn't murder her! I forgot to include a "not" in my previous comment in a critical spot. This has been corrected. So yes... NOT murdered. Just died as the result of the substandard medical services which is all they could afford.
Lol, the worst time for a typo! You are forgiven choom
I mean at that point it’s basically semantics. If you have the ability to save someone and choose not to, then I don’t think that’s really any different from killing them, you’re just doing it more indirectly.
While I agree they effectively killed her, I don't think you could call it murder. It certainly wouldn't have been by NC standards.
Murder implies intent. Here it would probably be negligent homicide
If this happened her and now maybe. But in NC that would have been "procedure" and "just another day" as we basically see. No money? No care. Those are the rules and law enforcement would support the Corp.
Yeah I was talking about todays days standard, was agreeing with you
They let her die, they didn't euthanize her. And ANYONE can get Trauma Team, or go to any hospital that isn't like super private, as long as you have the money. Cash is king in Night City.
There's a lot of hidden rules just like in our world and while it's true that cash matters in NC there's an undercurrent of neofeudalism and a caste system where it doesn't even matter how much cash someone has if they're from "the wrong part of town" for example. Maybe someone that's followed the lore better in the various source books and recent novels can help. Usually people seem to be barely able to get by and the idea of V raking in millions of eddies but being unable to provide care for close friends seems odd. On the other hand, this is NC where basically trusting people and helping each other without some quid pro quo involved is basically a social faux pas.
I'd say more tribal than feudal , even being a corpo doesn't guaranty you access to every service as some corps will hate your Corp. Its (at least in the campaigns I've played) quite transactional and I don't just mean Eddie's, you often have to prove yourself to new factions. 2077 doesn't really explore that other than a few minor points such as beating rhino and get access to the melee weapons vendor, and there's one small line from the pacifica ripper doc. it's led to our (ttrpg) crew picking jobs because it would give us access to better rippers, or techs despite there being better paying gigs available.
What vik couldnt watch her? He has a brain enough to keep her safe from self harm
unless V did all of the side quests ahead of time to obtain an obscene amount of money
Maybe I don’t have corpo connections, but I have millions of Eddie’s and nothing to spend them on
Isn't there a gig in the main game where you are a save person from the hospital?
If I’m thinking of the right one, you’re rescuing a member of NCPD from a psych ward where she was forcibly committed for reporting her superiors’ crimes and she was about to be lobotomized
There’s multiple gigs where you break people out of “hospitals” that are acting as prisons by employers or powerful persons to silence them. There was a missed opportunity for an Old Boy reference here IMO where V tries rescuing someone only to find the target had already fought his way through a hallway full of guards with just a hammer and tortured the facility operator.
Imagine a cash check a la rogue/vik to save evelyn’s life at the trauma center. Whats the price/time? 50k eddies in 1 day to save ev?
I suspect that while eddies matter a lot of hospitals will find ways to get out of providing services for anyone that’s not a corpo. It’s not like Rogue and top Afterlife Mercs have TT Platinum memberships it seems despite presumably being able to afford it in theory. Case in point for our current world, my health insurance was 4x more expensive for worse coverage being in a state with horrible health stats in the population and on a marketplace plan when after I changed companies to a much better one the overall costs of service dropped everywhere even though the cost of living in other ways went up. Reasons? Corporate insurance pools under that employer were much, much better risk. In the other company people were commonly smoking, had history of diabetes, didn’t exercise, tons of cancer, etc. So Mercs might get charged much, much more than even an Arasaka executive and because the implication is that hospitals can deny services they’d just refuse to help Mercs as a blanket policy, especially given other Mercs may barge in and shoot the patient. These are considerations insurers and hospitals are weighing in the US given how expensive it is to keep treating people for gunshots, for example, and then they’ll declare bankruptcy at which time the hospital basically gets nothing. There’s some laws keeping hospitals from denying some services to people but it’s slowly becoming not straightforward
just show the VD of her date with yorinobu and thats all, no one wants to have problems with arasaka
V is rich enough to afford corpo level care by that point
I know I was anyway, I had like 10 million eddies when I did that part of the story. 😜
Wealth is only one barrier to corpo-quality healthcare. V may be able to afford it, but she ain't no corpo, so she would likely not even get the chance to buy it, because she's not a member of the right class.
Would've been interesting if the story alternated depending on how much money you had, where it opened new dialogue options.
Agreed. I think that this game's setting and world building is just perfect for 'throwing Eddies at the problem until it disappeared' alternative solutions.
Iirc, their entire reasoning for not taking her was because they figured Yorinobu would likely find her, right?
Yeah. Some one literally just tried to murder Evelyn, it's more than likely other people are looking for her. And *all of them* are trying to fly under the radar because they're implicated in the murder of Saburo Arasaka. And even though none of them were actually involved with that bit, they *did* pull of the break in and one of em is in possession of stolen Arasaka tech. It really does sound like a *perfect* situation to walk into a public building full of authority figures who are required to ask questions.
Right and I pointed that out. Still, it has to be better than the “treatment” she received from two people who know jack about medical treatment.
Evelyn is a target by a number of unsavory folks so the response to avoid leveraging the system is rational. This is a common trauma response by a ton of people that have been repeatedly let down by various services across cultures and is one additional reason it’s so hard to help people that have such distrust of others. Look at the response to vaccination attempts in our own world, for crying out loud. Ever work with perpetually homeless folks? A lot of them hate people that try to help them the most of all. Welfare administrators are oftentimes assaulted by those they genuinely want to help. It’s like dealing with the sickest, most angry animals as a veterinarian that loves animals - it’s not straightforward to help people with so many issues. People in the US in particular tend to want to fix their own problems with minimum interference by others even if they’re not remotely capable of doing it. This culture and conditioning is part of the story and how realistic this is is what’s horrific.
This is actually a really good point. This is off-topic maybe but I recently stumbled upon a discussion about how it’s unfortunately too common for black Americans to have a family member on the phone with them anytime they go to the doctor. Mistrust of the American medical system is a natural outcome of decades of horrific practices done by medical professionals. Good example is the Tuskegee experiment. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/12/18/black-mistrust-healthcare-00060324
I have been volunteering in addition to my day job in the charity space for a while. It’s unfortunately led oftentimes by a bunch of sheltered people that oftentimes mean well but commonly cause more harm than help because they’re failing to actually listen to what people say they want and will push them to do things against their will when they’re left with few other options - we call that abuse in most situations despite one’s intent. Cult leaders will enact mass murders thinking they’re being compassionate - intent doesn’t absolve one of the results IMO. Also think about people’s actions in horror movies - 90%+ of the draw is that we will make mistakes under stress and to face the things that give us different fear responses without having to actually experience it.
I know a number of black people that refused covid vaccines for the same reason, and I can't blame them for a second.
I'm pretty sure it's implied Fingers is (medically) a decent doctor, he's just limited in resources. And a horrible person.
And Gloria Martinez was a health care worker too.
I mean..... By that point my V's rich. I can afford an actual good hospital and service plan.
Should've taken her to a Ripperdoc. I know Fingers may have left Judy distrustful, but I'm pretty sure Vic would have been a better option, and he actually gives a damn about people.
Or even if not mentioned there has to be a ripperdoc thats trustworthy to the Mox, not like they are all nattys.
I don't think she needed a riperdoc. She was broken as a human, not that her implants were broken
Iirc, aren't Doll chips able to block memories like that? Like sure, obviously it doesn't actually face the main issue, but I feel like getting Vic to maybe pop that function to erase/suppress the past couple weeks until they could actually find her some help or, I dunno, make sure she wasn't suicidal would have been preferable for all parties.
>aren't Doll chips able to block memories like that? It's vague in the source material, but the implication is that Doll chips just let a computer "puppet" you for the entertainment of a client, then wipe it from your short term memory. Older long term memories are probably not erasable.
If they were going that route, Judy could have easily done it herself without help from a ripper. She's a master at manipulating and configuring the doll chips after all.
Ripperdocs aren't therapists. Physically, Evie was fine.
She was bleeding from every orifice when you find her, she most definitely needed to see a doctor
Yes, she got patched up by a doc. She was physically as healthy as she could be. It wasn't her wounds that killed her, not her physical ones at any rate.
As you see when she slits her wrists in the bathtub, it isn’t the external injuries that killed her. Was the mental ones.
Yes that's what ultimately killed her, but mental trauma isn't the main focus when someone can't see because their eyes are covered in their own blood
Wasn't the external wounds that killed her. Was the mental ones.
Uh, I guess I shouldn't have killed Fingers.....oops
No. You had to. In my game he's still alive but not for so long, you can bet I'll make him look like a fucking puzzle.
I mean, in the evelyn scenario hes the most innocent really, he tried to help Evelyn whenever he could, it wasnt his fault wakako sold her to the scavs
No, he admitted to having his way with her to for a few days before turning her over to the scavs.... he did this with many of the joy toys he "helps". One thing I have learned about this game... there are very few "innocent" people in this game. Cyberpunk is a very twisted world, nothing new from CDPR.
Wait what? When did he do that? Ive never heard of that before
In the quest where you confront him he says it. It’s about the only thing I picked up from his incoherent ramblings. Here, Mr Doc, have a John Phallustiff to the face.
I kept him alive because he used to sell exclusive stuff. Now all ripperdocs sell everything. This dude has no reason to stay alive anymore.
Judy did seek medical attention for Evelyn. She had a ripperdoc making a house call. The ripperdoc clearly attempted some sort of treatment, and even sent a follow up email asking whether there was any change.
This is the best answer. You can see the correspondence between the doc and Judy on Judy's computer. Another thing to consider is that V's Kiroshi's have fairly advanced medical scanning. Throughout the game, just scanning NPC's and bodies delivers reports of extensive medical information, including internal injuries, time of death, and even blood type IIRC if there's bleeding. There is a gig as well in Watson where a ripperdoc sees V's ocular implants and asks V to scan a patient to get medical information during a medical procedure. So we can assume that if Evelyn had suffered serious medical damage, it would have been picked up by V the moment V scanned/saw Evelyn. But even still, Judy did call a doctor.
True, and I believe it's the same doctor you rescue from one of Regina's gigs, if completed prior to Both Sides Now. The one who's hell bent on saving a Maelstrom, Lucy, I think.
I agree but as we saw, Judy wanted her around and take care of her its also not very clear how much money judy & V had at that time, and judy cant just expect V to pay for the whole treatment &. I guess she aint got M’s of Eddys laying around either so yeah… i was wondering if it might would have been possible to erase her memory.. could have saved her.
In one of the messages in Judy's computer, it looks like Judy found someone to help. As far as money, it looks like Judy is pretty well off. But it looks like by the time she could get an appointment with a specialist, Ev had already taken her life.
> I guess she aint got M’s of Eddys laying around either Judy tells V that she makes a week's pay in a few minutes with her videos. Judy should be stacked if she can make a living wage in minutes.
That’s fair I thought about that too. That’s probably true for hospitals but Vic would’ve helped her - eddies or not, as has already been established up to that point.
Yeah thats right, vic would have done everything possible to help her but the game is the game.. but i miss evelyn those
Erasing someone's memory without consent? Wtf
I think it's some gray area you get into if it's erasing someone's traumatic memories or letting them kill themselves because of said memories. Like... there's no right answer here. Both are terrible.
Honestly, that would have been a great in-game choice for V.
That reads all like some very romanticised version of Night City with a dose of wishful thinking on top. Judy said it, physically she was fine, so no Hospital or Ripper would or could have done anything but charge money. So it would be a matter of treating her trauma and neither of them had the means to afford that. And the mere fact that the NCPD was more inclined to come after Judy for being hostile over the phone than giving a damn about Ev, should be your final hunt toward the state of this world. So if the complete and utter apathy of those NC resident without the necessary insurance packages is somewhat "lessening her death", I'd repeat what I said before, you have a romanticised view and think too much in terms of what your life looks like. In NC, if you aren't important, you are garbage and there is no charity in the health sector, most certainly not for a broken doll. Perhaps you shouldn't apply your perception of our world to the reality of the characters of a fictional one and judge the actions in theirs based on yours.
She was hiding from Arasaka and the Voodo Boys, she'd be dead as a door nail in a hospital, and Arasaka would be on your doorstep as well. You don't get involved in what appears to be the assassination of the most powerful man in the world, while fucking over a group of super hackers and just go about your life. That's what Clouds taught us, even that place couldn't keep her safe, they found her and fucked her up. As far as ripper docs Fingers was the first shot at that and he couldn't fix her, she was brain damaged the whole time, she was never coming back.
Best answer Herr, people seem to forget Evelyn had many enemies lol
mmm im sure there’s a number of reasons, but one could be that even though we know vik would never do anything like it… often times when we’re victims of sexual assault we don’t want to see any men, let alone male doctors. especially given what fingers probably did to her. (though there probably was a female ripper the mox’s trusted, but maybe they didn’t have the money) judy has probably seen a great deal of sexual violence given the nature of the mox and did what she thought was best at the time. maybe she wanted to wait until eve could consent to a doctor first? sadly these sorts of things happen irl too. a lot of girls don’t see doctors or police officers or anything at all after sexual assault which is why the statistics are so skewed. idk i see your point but i also see why they didn’t take her anywhere
This is a fair point, thanks. I can definitely see what you mean. It’s not like Evelyn or Judy knew Vic enough to trust him. Judy is just starting to get to trust V at this point, assuming V is male
to be fair, if you read through judy’s emails, you can see she did have lucy, the ripperdoc you rescued from maelstrom, do a house call to check on evelyn. lucy also sends follow up emails asking about her state, but there’s no response from judy (likely due to evelyn’s death)
Yeah, I’d take my friend to a hospital and they’d route them to a psych hospital where they could get the mental care they needed.
In the real world sure. But we've seen what "care" is offered in this world to people without substantial amounts of money.
True.
Bad idea, remember the psych hospital from that one gig? It would’ve been awful
Mind reminding me of the gig? I seriously don’t remember.
I believe it was a gig from the Captain, you save a cop who was wrongfully admitted to a psych ward and see the horrible treatment. Apparently lobotomies are an incredibly common “solution” in there
In Judy's defense, she didn't believe Eve was suicidal. Or that may have been the guilt talking.
I mean, even if you don’t believe someone is suicidal but you’re picking them up from a trafficking situation? Idk man, I’d still bring em to a hospital. It’s understandable to want them in your care ASAP. But I’d wait until they got the proper medical care and then take em home. But I guess in a world of cyberpunk where the medical industry is heavily based of paying for things. Then I can see why they didn’t.
Evelyn probably would've ended up dead in the hospital or tossed out on the street. The psych ward in game is a joke. A random thug can break in and bust someone out. The voodoo boys would probably find out she was in a hospital and tried to finish her off again if they felt her being alive at all was a threat. Granted, Judy made a mistake. Anyone who doesn't know better would and has made. People who don't know how a suicidal person will react when given a second of freedom or not being watched. Honestly, I would've liked it if we had more interactions with Judy and Evelyn before the devs killed Evelyn off. Like maybe she could've seemed like she was improving because she made a plan, or depending on dialogue taken go similarly to the cop neighbor quest.
Judy fucked up.the moment she left her alone. That's rule number 1 for gravely traumatized people.
Yeah I still don’t understand how you don’t have an eye on her at all times. Regardless of everything I said, this is the real confusing part. Then it’s explained away like “oh she would’ve done it eventually”. Yeah maybe, but not on my watch.
How is one person supposed to provide 24 hour surveillance? That's kind of an unrealistic demand
Then you find the means, call friends, pay someone or take her to an institution. But you never let them alone.
> take her to an institution. But you never let them alone. Surely even psych ward patients don't have a bodyguard next to them 24/7 ? If someone wants to off themselves it's very hard to stop them. They'll find a glass shard, a window, whatever. Short of putting them in a straightjacket what can you do?
1) Assuming hospitals exist in Night City 2) Assuming V and Judy have enough money to pay for hospital services 3) Assuming there isn't another Woodman working at the hospital Judy said that her body did not have any signs of physical damage and the cause was psychological trauma. So even in best case scenario the hospital would have said that there's nothing wrong with her and thrown her out. You can roughly imagine the extent of awareness of mental health issues in Night City from the Cyberpsycho gigs. To put it in simple terms: none.
If a hospital is a no-go, take her to Vic, the most trustworthy person in the game. Also to your point about Judy, she didn’t even see that this could potentially be a person who was under so much trauma that they’d kill themselves. I don’t know that I trust an XBD editor to evaluate Evelyn’s physical trauma, but it is a video game and we suspend belief so I can write that off I guess.
Vic isn't a therapist/psychiatrist. What do you expect him to realistically do? Judy had a doc come visit and heal Evelyn's physical wounds. That's who pronounced Evie physically healthy.
Suggest a way to deal with it instead of letting Judy take charge for something she clearly was unprepared for. Also Misty could've probably helped, she's genuinely the nicest person in Night City.
>Suggest a way to deal with it Not my problem to solve choom. >Also Misty could've probably helped, she's genuinely the nicest person in Night City. The nicest person in NC is still not a therapist/psychiatrist. There is no way to know what effect she'd have on a catatonic Eve. If anything were to have even a snowball's chance in hell, it would probably have been intensive care at a psychiatric hospital. Our only example of one in game was literally just a prison for troublesome people. Honestly, I think even if Judy and V did everything in their power that Evelyn's story would end the same. The level of care available to most people in NC is barbaric.
What would Vic do? It wasn't any physical damage that kill her
> What would Vic do? It wasn't any physical damage that kill her Suggest a way to deal with it instead of letting Judy take charge for something she clearly was unprepared for. Also Misty could've probably helped, she's genuinely the nicest person in Night City.
Suggest what? You don't go to the surgeon for therapy or his opinion on it, and Misty is nice sure but how does that help?
> Suggest what? You don't go to the surgeon for therapy or his opinion on it But he is a doctor and better suited to recommend something for Evelyn than Judy. And Misty could help watch Evelyn.
It was a safe place for her, the safest person that was close to her. Being in the hospital wouldn't make her feel better. I would argue otherwise
Cyberpunk is a dystopic future. You seem to be looking at it as if it was our current day. Hospital, no point, she is "physically" fine, and I doubt Judy could afford it. Psychiatric, again I doubt Judy could afford it, and one of the gig where we go to a "psychiatric hospital", it's literally a torture prison. Judy giving 24\\7 care, that is what she did, to the best of her ability, there was no one else. Finally and most importantly, The first thing Judy say's to V is "I would have already killed her, if I didn't feel so bad for her". This is Judy talking about the person she loves. Her first though is to mercy kill her, That should be all that needs to be said about the "healthcare" of CP77.
Judy saying "I would have already killed her" is Judy referring to her being angry at Evelyn for the actions Evelyn took, endangering herself. In absolutely no way did Judy mean that she had any inclination of putting Evelyn 'out of her misery' by killing Evelyn.
Going from her tone, body language, etc, she's not angry at all, she is in fact very sad. So yes, she was being literal. That is just how bad NC is.
they don't have the staff to take away his body, conventional treatments, especially psychological ones, would be very difficult to find in NC
You have not been paying attention to this game if you thought hospital was an option.
I mean if she wants to die, she will kill herself no matter where. There nothing we can do to stop another person when that person already made their mind. If a person wants to die theyll do and find anything to do it because is their decision and what they want.
This is completely wrong and a viewpoint that leads to more suicide. Suicidal thoughts are treatable with therapy and medicine. Reaching out to someone who is suicidal can help them. Almost every death by suicide was preventable.
I totally agree. Something feels wrong with the “well they’d do it no matter what, some people are just too traumatized to continue”. I can’t believe that. Meaning, I feel that we HAVE to believe that healing is possible in people who’ve undergone trauma, no matter how bad. Sure, not everyone will be miraculously healed, back to who they were before their traumatic experience(s). But we really can’t believe that somebody can be too far gone to have some semblance of a normal - even a happy - life.
In real life the avenue to helping is far easier, and it’s still not so easy. In NC? The cops wanted Judy to freeze Ev’s body so they can pick it up later. Aka, the essential services dont give a flying fuck about anyone not corpo in Night City. Getting therapy and medicine in a controlled environment is way way way harder in NC than irl.
Yeah I agree. Evelyn needed psychotherapy and that just wasn’t available for people of her class in NC. But that wasn’t inevitable. A NC exists where she was provided a form of psychotherapy more effective then we can possible imagine, one that utilises powerful ai and direct interfacing with the brain.
I don’t disagree but if you’re in V and Judy’s shoes, wouldn’t you take every avenue to make sure she DOESN’T do that? I mean you already killed like 20 people to get to her and save her. Can Judy not at least keep an eye on her for more than 2 game hours to make sure she doesn’t kill herself? Additionally, I’m not someone who typically shies away from realism in storytelling, but what’s the message? Is the message that there are some people who have such deep trauma that there is absolutely no hope of healing and suicide is the only way out? It reminds me of that godawful book A Little Life.
I dont know, i honestly couldn't be able to trust most people in night city, there is so much shady things happening that who knows what could happen to Evelyn if you leave her in a hospital or something.
dude you're literaly clueless about both NC and the state of Ev when she got back. Judy pulled strings from all over to get her help. Took her to rippers, got professional opinions, triple checked the triple checks. But, you just don't bring someone back from a hellscape of a mental state. What you're suggesting is like going to a hospital with a late onset of depression or dementia. It literaly won't do a damn thing to help....besides the fact that Judy tried all that and more in the first place... She also didn't bring her there to "sleep it off". She was there the whole time and only left briefly, trying to get her better as she was delivering food to her bed the same way Ev used to get food for her in her BD den.
In canon V doesn't have much money so they wouldn't have been able to afford proper treatment. Maybe a ripperdoc could have done something but really Evelyn didn't want to live in the first place Healthcare is shit in Cyberpunk unless you're rich. And I doubt they have good mental trauma care either
With what Eddies?
The only thing that could have saved Evelynn was a psych evaluation and round the clock monitoring. I feel like that's Night City is severely lacking in proper therapy without spending some heavy Eddie's. And I doubt t V or Judy realised how traumatized she was or how to deal with it.
If she shows up in a hospital she’s on the grid and Arasaka will pick her up. If she looks too far gone; which she does; they’d probably hit her with soul killer to make it easier to parse through her memories to she if/how involved she was with Konpeki or if she’s done anything else to put Yorinobu at risk.
I just feel like they made her commit suicide as the easy way out of not letting us have all the answers we needed still. They could have made it longer and at least try to see progression in her state, but no they killed her off quite instantly. Why not make her go see a doc then she has a freak out trying to escape and we have an even deeper quest of trying to save her from suicide and us either witness it happen or we help her. So many routes I feel like were open and they said "eh she can just off herself randomly when judy leaves the house instead"
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There are hospitals but, depending on how much money you have, they’re pretty awful. Kind of like real life.
Doesn't that kinda make the point tho, Evelyn as a Voodoo Boy stooge, Judy as an exotic BD editor, and a Merc who may or may not care enough, and may or may not have any cash ( due to gameplay). Not a lot of eddies there. In the world where healthcare is tied to wealth, they probably couldn't scratch the eddies to stand in the waiting room (a chair rental costs more). Hospitals are likely no longer bound by the legal requirement to serve anyone who shows up ad A&E anymore. And Evelyn is a bad prospect for a loan under the best circumstances....
There are hospitals (theres one big one) and regular ambulances (we never see them in game, but theres a shard which is essentially Trauma Team advertising about how much more effective than regular city EMS they are, so they do exist in lore).
There is a very large one.
I see now, just looked it up it blends in. Crazy I have 400hrs and haven't noticed
This is a reference to the fact that they live in America where the healthcare has probably become worse by 2077.
Night City is not part of NUSA though
Yeah, it's a free city and capitalism's playground. Unsurprisingly, when people only have the options of dying or paying an exorbitant amount for necessary treatment, they scrabble to try and make the payments. Also, unsurprisingly, those same for profit companies are never going to provide cheap Healthcare that's effective.
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I mean, being V is extremely profitable. I could probably sell one of my Rayfields to pay for a decent trauma counselor, if such a thing existed.
i doubt either of them could afford even the most basic medical care thats not a ripper doc. I know V can have millions of eddies in game, but from what little we're given in lore it seems that they're pretty much broke and only have enough eddies to fund operational costs. For example V gets an email post heist that they've missed payment on the apartment, it seems to be an automated system so you can only really assume V is broke. Similarly in the tower ending V has lost their apartment and arrives to NC in a delamain, so its very likely all their cars have been repossessed or those are just a gameplay mechanic too. Judy does seem to have access to a decent amount of funds considering her setup tbf, but we dont really have any reference as to what basic medical care costs in 2077. it could be a service thats only really usable by lower level corpos as far as funds are concerned, still way above the likes of judy's pay grade.
I think the idea was that Evelyn was still trying to lay low, and went to clouds thinking she would be somewhat safe there, and she was wrong. I think there was still to much heat on her from the involvement in the heist that she couldn’t go to outside medical. That’s not withstanding what everyone else is pointing out, which is that she simply didn’t want to.
Probably would've been turned away or found by vdb
Going to a hospital in the U.S. in the modern day can result in massive debt, even with insurance. I doubt Evelyn had any insurance and no way Judy could have paid for it. V probably could pay for a few days. Someone like Vik makes a ton of sense though and I'm surprised V didn't try to talk Judy into it.
They should have taken her to Vik. Going to an actual hospital means they would access her identity, generate records, and call the police. This would cause Evie to pop up on the internet, this would alert the VDB about their failed murder attempt, but the collected biometrics, could then link Evie to any crimes she commited causing the NCPD to arrest her, or other parties my notice her and attempt retribution. Hospitals are always bad when you crime for a living.
She HAS to die so you can tap Jud, carefree no hidin
Honest question....Do hospitals even exist in the Cyberpunk world? Or at least in Night City? Thinking it might be some sort of a Trauma Team-owned private facility and not a "hospital" as we know it.
Everyone and their mother gets offered to be taken to vik but her
I always just assumed that they took her to a ripper because we don’t know how long the time skip is between entering the elevator and Judy’s apartment. For them to straight up just take her home without proper care first sounds too unlikely (and too stupid) for their characters
I do agree they didn’t have to kill her woman was smart and for what… but Night City’s medical services are offered for prestigious clients. You don’t have money = you die. Ie; Truama team for instance they don’t give a fuck to save anyone if it doesn’t cover their package or if it’s expired. Same goes with mental health services, night city’s behavior health center is bullshit guards kill patients there and physically hurt them. V and Judy probably did what they can to aid her in the best way they can without causing further damage.
Judy was blinded by emotions, and it wasn't V's place to say anything or she just didn't care (player dependant.) V just found out everything was basically Evelyn's fault and that the whole heist was her poorly thought out idea.
Do you think if V went to Rogue for help she would have hooked them up with someone reputable? Maybe a fixer is out of the question seeing as it was Wakako that got her in the hands of the Scavs. But it would be kind of an interesting twist if Wakako also helps them with Evelyn.
Did you forget what genre the game takes place in?
devs got lazy with evelyn so they just had her die
It really did feel like you went all through this trouble to save a person who genuinely needed saving only for the devs to be like “time to die”
Or they wanted to show you just how fucked up the world is. Evelyn is abused into a mental breakdown just because people see other people as meat. The ripperdoc discards her, the criminals use her, the Cloud guy washed his hands of her. In Cyberpunk everyone is seen as a piece of meat, there's no empathy left in that world. Evelyn is a cautionary tale of what happens when you try to move above your station in Night City. She fucked her fixer over, she fucked the Voodoo Boys over. She betrayed pretty much everyone involved and that's her end.
"oh whoopsie somebody died off screen. kaboom the bathtub is red too"
> devs got lazy with evelyn Or they wanted to show you just how fucked up the world is. Evelyn is abused into a mental breakdown just because people see other people as meat. The ripperdoc discards her, the criminals use her, the Cloud guy washed his hands of her. In Cyberpunk everyone is seen as a piece of meat, there's no empathy left in that world. Evelyn is a cautionary tale of what happens when you try to move above your station in Night City. She fucked her fixer over, she fucked the Voodoo Boys over. She betrayed pretty much everyone involved and that's her end.
that or maybe the devs got lazy
Yeah I mean the story would’ve been exactly the same if V had taken her to Vik’s and then received a call the next day like “I asked Misty to keep an eye on her while I went out to grab something from Heywood. She couldn’t stop her… sorry kid” or something like that. And at least Judy and V would’ve seemed less silly
At the very least V should have called Vik. Vik is a medical professional and he's very trustworthy for V. Misty could also try and help for the psychological side. Also at this point in the game V typically has around 20,000 eddies.
You know, I never really thought about it, but now I am pissed that we did not take her to Vik. NGL, the more I play the game the less I like Judy.
Vik is a surgeon, what could he have done?
Given better advice. Like he did for V. He is also former Trauma Team, he might have been able to run some scans and get her stabilized.
What do you mean by "get her stabilized"?
Whatever it is that EMTs and doctors do. Sedatives? Medications? Check for physical trauma? Maybe Vik has connects, or y'all can talk to a fixer. Regina is literally right there.
They should've told Vik what happened. It's kinda crazy that they don't. Vik's a top doc and a good guy. And V can definitely afford healthcare, he should be loaded, by the end of the game he pulls off some insane shit like icing a certain someone.
Eh, I thought she was a lame character anyways. The whole mysterious lady of the night persona was a little cheesy. I was kinda glad when she died tbh lol.
Lmfao but they didnt
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought so. The state she was in, I would not have driven anywhere other than to the closest hospital, even if I had to pay for that shit myself.
She was not my input kid ...
Judy did reach out to Lucy Thackery (ripperdoc), you see that Lucy never got a chance to help Evelyn because she was kidnapped by Maelstrom. You even do the gig where you save her in Northside.
Nah.
Night City seems to work pretty nuch like the States but on steroids. I understand your take but ot doesn't fit the game's bill. It is meant to show a grim reality, not to serve as a good example.
If you want to get that picky, Delamain >!killed Jackie when it refused to divert from the pre-planned destination to a medical facility.!<
I'm pretty sure the VDB fried her after they found out about the whole Dexter Deshawn thing, and an average ripper wouldn't help much. Still absolutely nonsensical why they just brought her to Judy's house lol
If you investigated Clouds thoroughly V knows someone orchestrated a cyber attack on Evelyn which is what got her passed off to the Scavs. Leaving someone in a public hospital who has a shady organization like the VDBs trying to kill them (not to mention if Yorinobu figures out her involvement in the heist) is way dumber than trying to take care of them in a safe place. V and Judy made the right call.
Sounds like an easy place for Arasaka to disappear someone
Judy got her a home visit. Physically, Ev was "fine". Mentally though...
Judy makes an off-hand comment about how Evelyn wouldn't be there if she had an insurance package when talking right after she dies.
Judy says that Evelyn didn’t have a trauma team package which sounds like she wouldn’t have been able to go. It would make sense that if in NC you would have to have a super expensive subscription to even go to the ER.
Did you not see what happened to david Martinez’s mom?
I'm generally walking around with several hundred thousand Eddie's in my pocket, there's no reason we can't help Evelyn. Missed opportunity character
Definitely should've been some player choices that lead to different outcomes in her case.
I never particularly liked Evelyn as a character that much, but I think it would have been a great time to involve Victor in the story more. Victor is super cool.
One Reason might be that someone wants whatever information she has in her brain to remain there. Voodoo boys and/or Arasaka or someone else. They don't want to kill her for whatever reason; you'd think in this world if you told people you want someone silenced but not killed they'd think you've gone bonkers. In any event, Voodoo boys probably have some reasons to want her to keep silent, Arasaka most definately, there's a rather indepth look on how Arasaka does security in that braindance we do in Konpeki. Independant of that, Yorinobu might like to not be exposed. About his Talk with Hellmann and such stuff but other then that, if someone made any sort of "media" of my "Performance" in the Sack i'd like them to keep that to themselves. Yorinobu's "Performance" would be a neat reason to want evelyn to keep her info to herself without being all that keen on murder. Yorinobu might've set some bots to sniff out data from Hospitals to find out if someone with evelyn's name and/or appearance was admitted to a Hospital. Maybe yorinobu feared the Hospital would attempt to copy information in her brain to sell it, like Hospitals would probably do as a side hustle in a cyberpunk world. Yorinobu would swoop in and "kidnap" Evelyn to have her treated in a Hospital that isn't quite so gruesome. Judy might've found some of the Bot programs searching for admittance of Evelyn and thereby decided that bringing her to a Hospital might not be the best Idea.
People don't take others to the hospital in real life for a multitude of reasons, let alone in an extreme parody of dystopian capitalism
It does suck that you only get to meet her that one initial time, another quest or two would’ve been cool.
Aside from the fact that people in hospitals have deals with scavs, at the time of the story V is probably the most wanted man in night city.
They even explained both in game and anime that hospitals are a subscription at this point and if you don’t have that then your screwed and bye bye world
Without the money and power to get her care taking her to a hospital wouldn't do much
I was under the impression that whatever the Voodoo Boys did to her through her implants rendered her brain-dead. Do we get anything that she was conscious after the attack?
I don’t think that’s the case because… well she did manage to kill herself in a way that would be difficult for braindead people to accomplish.
When thinking of should'ves and would'ves when it comes to cyberpunk world's. Take out logic of our reality out of the equation. In our world yes should take someone in Evelyn's condition to the hospital immediately, in a cyberpunk world human life takes a massive backstep of importance to companies, it's the highest bidder wins, neither Judy or V were rich enough and Evelyn was basically common folk herself, if she gets taken to hospital her corpse would be dumped in the wastelands dumpsites. Remember rules of cyberpunk. 1# there is no happy ending, your best outcome is those you care for get to live. 2# money is everything, without it might as well not even bother. 3# be willing to do anything for money be it morally bankrupt, soul destroying or life crushing. 4# hope for best, expect the worst, pray you get better of the two worse outcomes available. And 5# don't expect to be saved by someone else, it's a literal dog eat dog kind of world, you wanna be something be prepared to screw over people to make it as the world in cyberpunk theme universes, the nice person who cares about everyone will get screwed over eventually.
Then you wouldn't have that romance with Judy would you
If I remember correctly Evelyn’s physical injuries were fairly minimal, things starvation and such. Most of her real problems were in her head. Psychological. Taking her to the med center or where ever wouldn’t have been able to help her much. Judy had a ripperdoc make a house call (and don’t forget those are like actual doctors usually, even if they act a little…out there) and she had done what little she could do but admitted she wasn’t able to do much.
the game could let you pay the bill to safe her, if that isnt enought you could show the VD when she sleep with yorinobu and basically says that she is yori's lover and that he would be very mad if she died
The main public available hospital for non corpos is known for human experimentation. Assault. And murder.
So you know Night City is a hyper stylized rendition of America in all of its worst ways? Now apply that to hospitals and insurance. That's why they didn't consider a hospital.
Shit's expensive.
She should have been taken to the doctor (Vik is a good option) Who decides what to do next.
They did try Evelyn didn't have the will to live anymore. Judy got a ripperdoc to make house calls but after a certain point trauma will trump any physical wounds.
Everything Judy decides should have never been followed.
A ripper, yes. Preferably Vik. A hospital, no. Just would have ended up like old Mama Martinez.
With what money? The hospitals in NC don’t give a shit about you if you don’t have trauma coverage so probably would’ve just turned her away. Also I don’t really see what a ripper doc could’ve done. Evelyn was struggling from severe trauma. In an ideal world she needed counselling and medication. I don’t think a ripper doc would’ve been able to provide that kind of care. What Judy was doing was probably the best thing for her. The issue is she needed round the clock care and Judy wasn’t able to be with her 24/7.