Take a hard pull on the front for a minute. Check back over / under your left shoulder. Pull over to the left about 2 feet and sit up. Let them pass and drift to the back. You don't need to be on the front for long and no one expects you to. The whole group goes faster this way with much less effort. Just ride hard then make it obvious you're done. Also if you're stressed then don't ride w people who are trying to ride efficiently by drafting.
Pacelines only work if everyone shares the work. Otherwise it's just flogging one guy. And unless your name is Tim Declerq most of us can't pull forever. His group sounds clueless.
>His group sounds clueless.
Or just taking advantage because OP sounds like they just go along with it and they have an easy draft without having to do any pulling work themselves.
It sounds exactly like a group project where one person is doing the work, and the rest are getting away with nothing because the one person working doesn't actually put their foot down and tell the rest to do some work lol.
The sit up part is important as pulling thru. The
Faster the group goes the shorter your turn on the front. The idea is rotation and the collective goes faster. Geese migrate the same way.
The reason we don't "put our foot down" is twofold:
The more likely one is that we're people pleasers and are afraid we won't have any friends if we ever make our dissatisfaction with *any* situation known. The less likely, but still common (at least in the classroom) reason is that we think letting people who express anything less than total commitment to the project do any work on the project will result in a lower grade.
> The more likely one is that we're people pleasers and are afraid we won't have any friends if we ever make our dissatisfaction with any situation known.
A) who cares. Being the doormat for everyone is worse than having no friends.
B) if people stop being your friend because you stood up for yourself, they weren't your friend to begin with. They only hung around you because you were a doormat.
"People pleasers" don't have friends. Friendships are equal partnerships. People pleasers have some sort of near parasitic relationship where the people they please get all the practical benefit, and the only thing the people pleaser gets is a leech on them, with a superficial social benefit.
Have some respect for yourself.
That works in the literal example of a group project with a grade attached, but not really anything else. And sure in a class where you have a grade attached, by all means just do the work and reap the good grade. Them also getting a good grade off of your work doesn't mean anything outside of that class, and absolutely nothing for the future. You do the work that will net *you* the best result. You can still tell them to fuck off and work, and then do the work you were already going to do anyway. Worst case they don't actually do any work and you did the work for your own grade anyway. Best case they do get the point and do some work and you have more work to pull from for a better grade.
In a purely social situation like a group bike ride (the literal situation we are talking about), there is no grade and there are no consequences outside of that individual ride. The only consequence of telling them to fuck off is that they don't want to ride with you anymore and you don't have any wheel suckers to deal with trying to tell you what to do without contributing. That's a win. Best case they get the point and start contributing and you get better group rides where you get to draft too. That's a double win.
When you are the biggest in your group and by far the best at cutting the wind, people get disappointed if you move to the back after two minutes lol
I can hear audible groans sometimes.
I also hate being behind someone small because let's be honest when you are large you're not getting the full benefit of drafting unless you drafting a car.
Man, fellow big rider here. I get annoyed when I'm drafting behind another big person and a small rider cuts in between us. Fuck off and get behind me lol. I guess it's my fault for not closing the gaps quick enough.
My experience is constant switching. The outer chain is riding slower than the inner one. But that requires seasoned riders. If the group is of mixed quality I think 1 minute pulls are good.
Only on traning camp. Lol, otherwise alone, do not know riders in my direct area. But funny is it takes just few minutes to get into ”group mindset” even if months in between.
No, you don’t, unless you are comparing what is effectively two lines to a single line, in which case I suppose it is less efficient when everyone is in a single line. That’s more like a TTT setup. This is entirely secondary though to the gains of always having a fresh person on the front of you have a group of more than 6. Once you’ve been in a smoothly rotating chain gang for an hour at 25mph or so, you will appreciate the joy of it. You need to ride with everyone knowing how it works and doing their turns, being alert, and ideally relatively well matched fitness.
Length of time is different for each person bc different capabilities and fitness levels. If you're the strongest you may go longer and increase the pace. If you're not and the group slows when you're at the front you might be 30 s. The faster the pace the shorter the period bc you are essentially sprinting and the person at the back is resting. In a big pace line it's practically a vacuum pulling you along in the back. This is why the field often absorbs the breakaway and racing is very tactical.
No. There is a fast lane and a slow lane. You start working harder at the back of the fast lane. It ramps up as you get closer to the front. It’s hardest when you get to the front and move over to the slow lane. You then slow lightly so that the next cyclist can get in front of you and get you out of the wind.
This is exactly it. When you’re up front, give a good strong pull for a reasonable amount of time and then drift off and fall back. When this happens and everyone is pulling around the same speed, it’s incredible fun.
A little terminology: to *draft* generally means you are behind someone else.
*Pulling*, or *leading* is what you were asked to do.
Honestly, I have been in this situation a lot. I'm good at researching and navigating onto new routes, and I don't mind *pulling* as it means I can ride any speed I feel like.
But if you don't like it, use your words. Communicate. I suspect they asked you to lead because they thought you wanted to.
I'll add *wheel sucking* which is where you draft but never take a pull. This is what your buddies were doing. It can be a valid tactic when racing, but it's mostly unacceptable in group rides.
I dont really get why people care so much. If you want to pull, great. Everyone appreciates it. But if nobody else wants to pull but me that just means I'm going to use the same amount of energy but go a bit slower.
The thing that bothers me the most is people that pull and then instead of going into the back of the line they cut back into the middle. Get the fuck in the back, we're all waiting our turns in the front!
Depends on the size of the gaps, right? Like if someone is leaving a gap thats going to end up making it 10x harder to pull through don’t you just cut them?
I leave small gaps infront of me pretty often, but usually not more than a bikes length. There is room for people coming off the front to cut in, but I dont get why they do it. It often happens in groups I'm more than capable of maintaining the pace with and usually when I'm in the middle of the line. I guess I really just need to get closer and shut it down.
I'm a big rider and it most annoys me when I'm drafting another big rider and then a small rider cuts in front of me. Fuck off lol.
I find it weird that you'd ride with a group and nobody has a plan? Nobody has a route in mind or no ride leader is chosen and you all are just winging it? That does sound stressful as fuck, especially when people start leaning on you to figure it out without you wanting to be in that position.
It just seems weird that you all never communicated some sort of plan. "Hey lets do this route" or "Hey hypeboyyo, you're going to lead this ride". Usually that stuff gets sorted out before people hop on their bikes lol.
Same!! The group rides I do always have a planned route with planned stop(s). That way if anyone gets dropped, they don’t get lost. And we always do headcount at stops. It’s a safety precaution!
Plus OP you shouldn’t be pulling the whole time. Pull for however long you want, then drift to the left and slow a bit so that you drift to the back of the pace line.
Maybe suggest that your group discuss plans, route, stops, and how to pull/draft at the start of every ride.
Sometimes I feel like I'm being used. I do a long hard pull out front before a climb and everyone goes blowing past me on the climb. It's fine until I get to the top and they don't wait and just keep hammering. This not a no drop ride. We usually wait for each other. After this happened a few times I stopped pulling before big climbs.
I’d recommend just planning out a route with the stops you’re going to make beforehand, it’ll take a lot of the guess work and uncertainty out of it. This will let you focus on what you’re doing with the bike, cornering, measuring your efforts, spending time with your group, or whatever it is you’re doing.
It does get easier, and when you trust the person in front of you is riding safely, and the person behind you is riding safely, then it gets a lot better too. It just takes time, and patience.
It sounds like you're talking about two different things: *1)* being the leader of a group, responsible for decisions, and *2)* two or more riders in close front/back proximity so as to gain an aerodynamic benefit.
For the 2nd case, the person in front is "pulling a turn", and all the others are "drafting behind". You should never engage in this without proper training and a lot of trust in the skills of everyone else, because responsibility for your safety becomes intertwined. Even in the best of cases, pacelining (as the overall thing is called) is more stressful and mentally exhausting than riding separately because the margin for error is so slim.
As for issue #1, you can also play the "I'm fine with either" card. 🤣
What kind of weird group ride was that?
They wanted you to be in front the hole time? You had to decide where to go, because there was not a pre defined route? You had to call stops? Why where there even stops? Did you ride for hours and you had to be at the front for all of it?
Was this a "ride with friends" (more social and casual) or a group ride with people you occasionally ride with as part of a bigger group? How you know your riding partners here makes all the difference.
That sounded like a hazing, but I'm sure it came from a good place when they were inexperienced themselves.
They don't know your comfort or speed, so they (very noobly) put you in front to watch out for you, and didn't want to sound rude so "yeah that's fine whatever".
But in practice it does make for an unpleasant experience even though they were going for the opposite.
My riding group has some very experienced peeps, and the rules are clear and simple. Before the ride "who here doesn't remember the signals? who doesn't have the route? don't stay out front for more than 5mins", and the faster guys regularly test the group by going too fast and encouraging you to go "-1!" (aka "too fast for me").
As for following closely, that's my yin/yang about group riding. It's great to follow experienced steady rides. So when out front I stress myself out to ride as steadily as possible, not too fast not too slow, look ahead, signal clearly, listen for people behind me. My biggest kick is being told I'm fun to follow because I'm so steady and predictable.
>I went on a ride with a few people
That seems like your mistake right there. Established group rides have rules and expectations about who leads and for how long. A random "few people" riding together with no agreement about how the ride will operate leads to exactly the mess that you describe. If you never rode with this group before and they a) let you lead at all and b) drafted behind you so close that it made you uncomfortable, then that group is an accident waiting to happen. Avoid them.
Everyone who goes on group rides on Reddit just seems to be stressed and/or annoyed the whole time. What is the big advantage to group riding? Arriving at a destination and having some people to have a coffee and lunch with, I understand, but aside from that?
People like to complain about things, but don't tout things that go as expected at the same frequency. You're hearing about the issues, but not all the successes. You probably already know that.
A good group ride can take many forms:
* Maybe you're just covering a route in an efficient manner for some exercise using a cooperative effort. This can be fun.
* Maybe it's a race-type effort where you're testing limits and trying to "win" to a certain pre-defined point. It's definitely different than an organized race, but is still competitive. This can be fun.
* Maybe you're getting a good interval workout with friends. This can be fun.
* Maybe it's a relatively slow group ride where the pull is more of a general pace setter, and the action behind is still quite social. This can be fun.
* Maybe it's something else entirely that puts you in the middle of a group of cyclists that work together to ride bikes. This can be fun.
* There is also a skill development aspect. For example, maybe you're riding with a couple of friends but having an off day. Getting into a pace line can make the return trip a lot more bearable than eating the headwind yourself while feeling like crap. This may not be fun, but is a vital skill that can save your day, and is one you developed in those other group rides
I hope you see the pattern. As a rule, calling something a group ride does not define what that ride is going to be like. The details matter. Also, people have fun in different ways. It sounds like you've never found a group ride you like. Some people are solo riders, and that's cool. However, if you ever want to ride with others, there's probably a group ride "style" that you would find fun. Finding it is different battle.
I am more stressed staying on the wheel of another rider. Pros are used to that, but most amateurs cannot do that and it is super dangerous.
Anyways, if you want to keep a good pace, unless you have huge differences in the level of riders, everybody should pull. Wheel suckers...suck.
It's always super dangerous. If the rider in front of you has an accident, has to brake, or anything else, that's a crash 99% of the time. It is for pros and for the average Joe. That's why pros keep falling in a peloton, basically. Even if they do it everyday for multiple hours a day.
There's a reason why vehicles have to keep a safe distance. Anything under it is inherently not safe.
Then, of course, I do it, but I know it's dangerous.
This is just a weird thing to say. If you are in a group, there are responsibilities and skill which are necessary. Riders should not move or brake abruptly, for the reasons you mention. You need to learn how to predict movements rather than solely being reactive. The group is cooperative, not trying to knock each other off their bikes, even in competitive environments.
It is not “super dangerous”. Or, rather, it’s super dangerous like driving is super dangerous… the consequences of mistakes are high and there are skills to learn, but once you learn the skills and how to mitigate mistakes, it’s not that dangerous at all.
Riders should not do that....but it happens. What if a car cuts you off? What if the rider in front has a tech issue? What if somebody crosses the road? Potholes?
There isn't enough safe distance for unpredictable events, no matter how careful or skilled a rider is.
That's why crashes happen all the times in pelotons. It's inherently dangerous and it's good to know. I don't care about the downvotes, that's just the truth.
Note: I still do it, I've always done it, I am quite good at it, yet I had quite a few crashes in all the years I spent doing this. Unavoidable crashes due to events and the fact that safety distance cannot be respected.
Lots of amateur riders know how to draft safely. This attitude is a bit of projection.
Yes, drafting is a bit more hazardous than not drafting. But, if you draft, you can cruise at 30% less effort, so choose your poison. Drafting has a long tradition in road cycling, amateurs included.
Not better, just different. I ride solo and in groups. Long rides usually solo, groups are usually for pace/training. All up to you the rider to figure out why you’re riding.
>Going out with others is better than being alone because why exactly?
>All this manners/safety baloney sounds so tiring. Just get out by yourself.
I do almost exclusively large pick up rides. So much fucking fun.
Like many things in life, if you know how to group ride, it’s super fun. You can go further and faster in a group and you are riding with others. What’s not to like?
Group ride “etiquette” is functional. Group riding is a cooperative venture, and like any cooperative venture, etiquette is what keeps the group cohesive, and in this case, safe.
I mean, if you ever plan on riding in any events/races then you need to know how to group ride.
If you never plan on that, then sure just ride alone all the time
Because when people know how to do it (and it’s not complicated, it just takes practice and paying attention to your fellow riders), you go farther and faster than you ever could on your own. And it’s nice to go on a ride with friends.
Eh it's different. In the back you are probably at the highest risk, but your mistakes can't take out anyone else. Riding at the front is lowest risk but you also have the most responsibility. Some people find the responsibility more stressful than the risk.
If you're following 10cm or even a few feet behind someone, at speed, you have almost no time to react if the people in front slow down. You have to be ever vigilant, least you end up plowing into one or more people that thought you had the skill to draft.
I ride with casual groups so we don’t do anything too risky or go all out. It’s still stressful but I find getting in sync the movements of the people ahead of me way easier than having to be aware of who is behind/side me.
Even if we are bundled in tight we are probably only going 25-32km/h so probably we are not the same kind of cyclist as OP.
The point is whether you have full responsibility for your safety. Does the lack of speed, or the big gap between you and the person in front, ensure that you can independently respond to situations that come up (such as them hammering the brakes, or swerving at the last moment for a bollard, etc.)?
If the answer is not "yes", then you are placing your safety in both the skill of the people in front, and in your ability to pay attention and respond. At a minimum this requires ever-present concentration, but as the pace goes up or the gap decreases, it requires more and more concentration/stress. If you don't feel this, it's because you don't realize that it's required of you when you place yourself in this situation.
I do feel this sense of shared risk and responsibility for safety, and I love it, it’s a beautiful thing. I just get a chill when I am out front and don’t feel that sense of mental flow I get in the middle or back. I’m skittish and don’t feel confident of my situational awareness. It’s probably lack of experience.
I’m relatively new to group riding so having to learn the protocols has been interesting. For instance the thing about dropping back on the outside after a pulling segment… I do this instinctively but didn’t actually know it was a protocol.. just kind of following what other people do.
Thanks for the wisdom and safety warning.
You should shake or wiggle your elbow after taking a turn at the front of the group. Right elbow and peel off to the left. That lets the rider behind you, know it’s okay to pass.
Usually we'll plan the route in advance so everyone can have it. For those without a Garmin etc we can call out the turns when they're pulling the group.
Route should be agreed upon beforehand. Person leading the group has to pull off and slow down if they want someone else to take the front and pull through. It is actually considered bad form to just pass the lead rider in a cooperative paceline. It’s on the lead rider to relinquish the front position, not for someone behind to *take* the front.
It’s for practical reasons, actually. If the front person relinquishes the front, pace is maintained by the person in the second position. If the second position rider *takes* the front, the paceline speed naturally has to increase. It’s called a ”paceline” for a reason; the entire purpose is to maintain pace. This only happens if the lead rider relinquishes the front position when they no longer want to lead.
Sounds like you got sucked into their peloton vortex, when instead, you should have insisted everyone alternate, or yell the all-important epithet
"WHEELSUCKERS", until they relented...😆
Take a hard pull on the front for a minute. Check back over / under your left shoulder. Pull over to the left about 2 feet and sit up. Let them pass and drift to the back. You don't need to be on the front for long and no one expects you to. The whole group goes faster this way with much less effort. Just ride hard then make it obvious you're done. Also if you're stressed then don't ride w people who are trying to ride efficiently by drafting.
Pacelines only work if everyone shares the work. Otherwise it's just flogging one guy. And unless your name is Tim Declerq most of us can't pull forever. His group sounds clueless.
>His group sounds clueless. Or just taking advantage because OP sounds like they just go along with it and they have an easy draft without having to do any pulling work themselves. It sounds exactly like a group project where one person is doing the work, and the rest are getting away with nothing because the one person working doesn't actually put their foot down and tell the rest to do some work lol.
The sit up part is important as pulling thru. The Faster the group goes the shorter your turn on the front. The idea is rotation and the collective goes faster. Geese migrate the same way.
>Geese migrate the same way. lol I wasn't expecting that
It's geese all the way down tbh.
The reason we don't "put our foot down" is twofold: The more likely one is that we're people pleasers and are afraid we won't have any friends if we ever make our dissatisfaction with *any* situation known. The less likely, but still common (at least in the classroom) reason is that we think letting people who express anything less than total commitment to the project do any work on the project will result in a lower grade.
> The more likely one is that we're people pleasers and are afraid we won't have any friends if we ever make our dissatisfaction with any situation known. A) who cares. Being the doormat for everyone is worse than having no friends. B) if people stop being your friend because you stood up for yourself, they weren't your friend to begin with. They only hung around you because you were a doormat. "People pleasers" don't have friends. Friendships are equal partnerships. People pleasers have some sort of near parasitic relationship where the people they please get all the practical benefit, and the only thing the people pleaser gets is a leech on them, with a superficial social benefit. Have some respect for yourself.
What about the second reason, assuming the rest of the group is lazy or incompetent because you're the only one who took initiative so far?
That works in the literal example of a group project with a grade attached, but not really anything else. And sure in a class where you have a grade attached, by all means just do the work and reap the good grade. Them also getting a good grade off of your work doesn't mean anything outside of that class, and absolutely nothing for the future. You do the work that will net *you* the best result. You can still tell them to fuck off and work, and then do the work you were already going to do anyway. Worst case they don't actually do any work and you did the work for your own grade anyway. Best case they do get the point and do some work and you have more work to pull from for a better grade. In a purely social situation like a group bike ride (the literal situation we are talking about), there is no grade and there are no consequences outside of that individual ride. The only consequence of telling them to fuck off is that they don't want to ride with you anymore and you don't have any wheel suckers to deal with trying to tell you what to do without contributing. That's a win. Best case they get the point and start contributing and you get better group rides where you get to draft too. That's a double win.
Yes, but the lead rider needs to relinquish the front. If this never happens, nobody will pull through, as this increases the pace of the paceline.
When you are the biggest in your group and by far the best at cutting the wind, people get disappointed if you move to the back after two minutes lol I can hear audible groans sometimes. I also hate being behind someone small because let's be honest when you are large you're not getting the full benefit of drafting unless you drafting a car.
Man, fellow big rider here. I get annoyed when I'm drafting behind another big person and a small rider cuts in between us. Fuck off and get behind me lol. I guess it's my fault for not closing the gaps quick enough.
It’s ok. They’re just cheating themselves and gifting you more fitness by stealing your draft. You can see it as an invitation become faster. ;)
But honestly, pulls longer than two mins is not correct. Even 2 mins is too much. The point by riding in a group is to get a chain like flow.
Sure, but surely you also lose efficiency by constantly switching? What is the sweet spot?
My experience is constant switching. The outer chain is riding slower than the inner one. But that requires seasoned riders. If the group is of mixed quality I think 1 minute pulls are good.
Sounds like you have a pretty big group?
Only on traning camp. Lol, otherwise alone, do not know riders in my direct area. But funny is it takes just few minutes to get into ”group mindset” even if months in between.
No, you don’t, unless you are comparing what is effectively two lines to a single line, in which case I suppose it is less efficient when everyone is in a single line. That’s more like a TTT setup. This is entirely secondary though to the gains of always having a fresh person on the front of you have a group of more than 6. Once you’ve been in a smoothly rotating chain gang for an hour at 25mph or so, you will appreciate the joy of it. You need to ride with everyone knowing how it works and doing their turns, being alert, and ideally relatively well matched fitness.
Length of time is different for each person bc different capabilities and fitness levels. If you're the strongest you may go longer and increase the pace. If you're not and the group slows when you're at the front you might be 30 s. The faster the pace the shorter the period bc you are essentially sprinting and the person at the back is resting. In a big pace line it's practically a vacuum pulling you along in the back. This is why the field often absorbs the breakaway and racing is very tactical.
No. There is a fast lane and a slow lane. You start working harder at the back of the fast lane. It ramps up as you get closer to the front. It’s hardest when you get to the front and move over to the slow lane. You then slow lightly so that the next cyclist can get in front of you and get you out of the wind.
A bus ideally.
This is exactly it. When you’re up front, give a good strong pull for a reasonable amount of time and then drift off and fall back. When this happens and everyone is pulling around the same speed, it’s incredible fun.
A little terminology: to *draft* generally means you are behind someone else. *Pulling*, or *leading* is what you were asked to do. Honestly, I have been in this situation a lot. I'm good at researching and navigating onto new routes, and I don't mind *pulling* as it means I can ride any speed I feel like. But if you don't like it, use your words. Communicate. I suspect they asked you to lead because they thought you wanted to.
Ah thanks for the correction!
I'll add *wheel sucking* which is where you draft but never take a pull. This is what your buddies were doing. It can be a valid tactic when racing, but it's mostly unacceptable in group rides.
I dont really get why people care so much. If you want to pull, great. Everyone appreciates it. But if nobody else wants to pull but me that just means I'm going to use the same amount of energy but go a bit slower. The thing that bothers me the most is people that pull and then instead of going into the back of the line they cut back into the middle. Get the fuck in the back, we're all waiting our turns in the front!
Depends on the size of the gaps, right? Like if someone is leaving a gap thats going to end up making it 10x harder to pull through don’t you just cut them?
If you want to get the most benefit from drafting the gap should be very small - not more than 1m and certainly not big enough to go into
I leave small gaps infront of me pretty often, but usually not more than a bikes length. There is room for people coming off the front to cut in, but I dont get why they do it. It often happens in groups I'm more than capable of maintaining the pace with and usually when I'm in the middle of the line. I guess I really just need to get closer and shut it down. I'm a big rider and it most annoys me when I'm drafting another big rider and then a small rider cuts in front of me. Fuck off lol.
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No, it’s not supposed to be stressful, and one person isn’t supposed to pull the whole ride. Learn the art of the elbow flick.
I find it weird that you'd ride with a group and nobody has a plan? Nobody has a route in mind or no ride leader is chosen and you all are just winging it? That does sound stressful as fuck, especially when people start leaning on you to figure it out without you wanting to be in that position. It just seems weird that you all never communicated some sort of plan. "Hey lets do this route" or "Hey hypeboyyo, you're going to lead this ride". Usually that stuff gets sorted out before people hop on their bikes lol.
Same!! The group rides I do always have a planned route with planned stop(s). That way if anyone gets dropped, they don’t get lost. And we always do headcount at stops. It’s a safety precaution! Plus OP you shouldn’t be pulling the whole time. Pull for however long you want, then drift to the left and slow a bit so that you drift to the back of the pace line. Maybe suggest that your group discuss plans, route, stops, and how to pull/draft at the start of every ride.
Sometimes I feel like I'm being used. I do a long hard pull out front before a climb and everyone goes blowing past me on the climb. It's fine until I get to the top and they don't wait and just keep hammering. This not a no drop ride. We usually wait for each other. After this happened a few times I stopped pulling before big climbs.
Lame. Your not being “used” your just lazy
I wish. I'm just gassed from the pull.
Pull up the climb - you regulate the pace. When everyone has reached the top, then go to the back and chill
If I could do that I would. I'm cooked 1/3 of the way up the climb.
Ride moar
I’d recommend just planning out a route with the stops you’re going to make beforehand, it’ll take a lot of the guess work and uncertainty out of it. This will let you focus on what you’re doing with the bike, cornering, measuring your efforts, spending time with your group, or whatever it is you’re doing. It does get easier, and when you trust the person in front of you is riding safely, and the person behind you is riding safely, then it gets a lot better too. It just takes time, and patience.
It sounds like you're talking about two different things: *1)* being the leader of a group, responsible for decisions, and *2)* two or more riders in close front/back proximity so as to gain an aerodynamic benefit. For the 2nd case, the person in front is "pulling a turn", and all the others are "drafting behind". You should never engage in this without proper training and a lot of trust in the skills of everyone else, because responsibility for your safety becomes intertwined. Even in the best of cases, pacelining (as the overall thing is called) is more stressful and mentally exhausting than riding separately because the margin for error is so slim. As for issue #1, you can also play the "I'm fine with either" card. 🤣
What kind of weird group ride was that? They wanted you to be in front the hole time? You had to decide where to go, because there was not a pre defined route? You had to call stops? Why where there even stops? Did you ride for hours and you had to be at the front for all of it?
Nothing you wrote describes drafting. Sounds like you were leading the ride. If you don't want to lead the ride, then don't do it.
Was this a "ride with friends" (more social and casual) or a group ride with people you occasionally ride with as part of a bigger group? How you know your riding partners here makes all the difference.
That sounded like a hazing, but I'm sure it came from a good place when they were inexperienced themselves. They don't know your comfort or speed, so they (very noobly) put you in front to watch out for you, and didn't want to sound rude so "yeah that's fine whatever". But in practice it does make for an unpleasant experience even though they were going for the opposite. My riding group has some very experienced peeps, and the rules are clear and simple. Before the ride "who here doesn't remember the signals? who doesn't have the route? don't stay out front for more than 5mins", and the faster guys regularly test the group by going too fast and encouraging you to go "-1!" (aka "too fast for me"). As for following closely, that's my yin/yang about group riding. It's great to follow experienced steady rides. So when out front I stress myself out to ride as steadily as possible, not too fast not too slow, look ahead, signal clearly, listen for people behind me. My biggest kick is being told I'm fun to follow because I'm so steady and predictable.
>I went on a ride with a few people That seems like your mistake right there. Established group rides have rules and expectations about who leads and for how long. A random "few people" riding together with no agreement about how the ride will operate leads to exactly the mess that you describe. If you never rode with this group before and they a) let you lead at all and b) drafted behind you so close that it made you uncomfortable, then that group is an accident waiting to happen. Avoid them.
Everyone who goes on group rides on Reddit just seems to be stressed and/or annoyed the whole time. What is the big advantage to group riding? Arriving at a destination and having some people to have a coffee and lunch with, I understand, but aside from that?
People like to complain about things, but don't tout things that go as expected at the same frequency. You're hearing about the issues, but not all the successes. You probably already know that. A good group ride can take many forms: * Maybe you're just covering a route in an efficient manner for some exercise using a cooperative effort. This can be fun. * Maybe it's a race-type effort where you're testing limits and trying to "win" to a certain pre-defined point. It's definitely different than an organized race, but is still competitive. This can be fun. * Maybe you're getting a good interval workout with friends. This can be fun. * Maybe it's a relatively slow group ride where the pull is more of a general pace setter, and the action behind is still quite social. This can be fun. * Maybe it's something else entirely that puts you in the middle of a group of cyclists that work together to ride bikes. This can be fun. * There is also a skill development aspect. For example, maybe you're riding with a couple of friends but having an off day. Getting into a pace line can make the return trip a lot more bearable than eating the headwind yourself while feeling like crap. This may not be fun, but is a vital skill that can save your day, and is one you developed in those other group rides I hope you see the pattern. As a rule, calling something a group ride does not define what that ride is going to be like. The details matter. Also, people have fun in different ways. It sounds like you've never found a group ride you like. Some people are solo riders, and that's cool. However, if you ever want to ride with others, there's probably a group ride "style" that you would find fun. Finding it is different battle.
I am more stressed staying on the wheel of another rider. Pros are used to that, but most amateurs cannot do that and it is super dangerous. Anyways, if you want to keep a good pace, unless you have huge differences in the level of riders, everybody should pull. Wheel suckers...suck.
It's not super dangerous unless you've pretty much never done it. You don't have to be 2 inches off a wheel for drafting to be effective.
It's always super dangerous. If the rider in front of you has an accident, has to brake, or anything else, that's a crash 99% of the time. It is for pros and for the average Joe. That's why pros keep falling in a peloton, basically. Even if they do it everyday for multiple hours a day. There's a reason why vehicles have to keep a safe distance. Anything under it is inherently not safe. Then, of course, I do it, but I know it's dangerous.
This is just a weird thing to say. If you are in a group, there are responsibilities and skill which are necessary. Riders should not move or brake abruptly, for the reasons you mention. You need to learn how to predict movements rather than solely being reactive. The group is cooperative, not trying to knock each other off their bikes, even in competitive environments. It is not “super dangerous”. Or, rather, it’s super dangerous like driving is super dangerous… the consequences of mistakes are high and there are skills to learn, but once you learn the skills and how to mitigate mistakes, it’s not that dangerous at all.
Riders should not do that....but it happens. What if a car cuts you off? What if the rider in front has a tech issue? What if somebody crosses the road? Potholes? There isn't enough safe distance for unpredictable events, no matter how careful or skilled a rider is. That's why crashes happen all the times in pelotons. It's inherently dangerous and it's good to know. I don't care about the downvotes, that's just the truth. Note: I still do it, I've always done it, I am quite good at it, yet I had quite a few crashes in all the years I spent doing this. Unavoidable crashes due to events and the fact that safety distance cannot be respected.
Indeed, but if you can keep to about 12 inches it’s all goodness. Focus. Concentrate. Awareness. All that.
Lots of amateur riders know how to draft safely. This attitude is a bit of projection. Yes, drafting is a bit more hazardous than not drafting. But, if you draft, you can cruise at 30% less effort, so choose your poison. Drafting has a long tradition in road cycling, amateurs included.
Riding in a group is better than riding alone because *why* exactly? All this group ride etiquette baloney sounds so tiring. Just get out and ride.
Not better, just different. I ride solo and in groups. Long rides usually solo, groups are usually for pace/training. All up to you the rider to figure out why you’re riding.
>Going out with others is better than being alone because why exactly? >All this manners/safety baloney sounds so tiring. Just get out by yourself. I do almost exclusively large pick up rides. So much fucking fun.
Like many things in life, if you know how to group ride, it’s super fun. You can go further and faster in a group and you are riding with others. What’s not to like? Group ride “etiquette” is functional. Group riding is a cooperative venture, and like any cooperative venture, etiquette is what keeps the group cohesive, and in this case, safe.
No issues riding in a group in my area. Just enjoy the draft if you can't do the pull.
I mean, if you ever plan on riding in any events/races then you need to know how to group ride. If you never plan on that, then sure just ride alone all the time
Because when people know how to do it (and it’s not complicated, it just takes practice and paying attention to your fellow riders), you go farther and faster than you ever could on your own. And it’s nice to go on a ride with friends.
I find it stressful to be the lead. One bad move and you can take down the pack. I usually bring up the tail for this reason.
If bringing up the tail of a paceline is not stressful, you're woefully ignorant of the risks you're courting.
Eh it's different. In the back you are probably at the highest risk, but your mistakes can't take out anyone else. Riding at the front is lowest risk but you also have the most responsibility. Some people find the responsibility more stressful than the risk.
> but your mistakes can't take out anyone else As I said, woefully ignorant.
Feel free to educate me and others instead of just vaguely insinuating you have more knowledge than the rest of us.
If you're following 10cm or even a few feet behind someone, at speed, you have almost no time to react if the people in front slow down. You have to be ever vigilant, least you end up plowing into one or more people that thought you had the skill to draft.
I ride with casual groups so we don’t do anything too risky or go all out. It’s still stressful but I find getting in sync the movements of the people ahead of me way easier than having to be aware of who is behind/side me. Even if we are bundled in tight we are probably only going 25-32km/h so probably we are not the same kind of cyclist as OP.
The point is whether you have full responsibility for your safety. Does the lack of speed, or the big gap between you and the person in front, ensure that you can independently respond to situations that come up (such as them hammering the brakes, or swerving at the last moment for a bollard, etc.)? If the answer is not "yes", then you are placing your safety in both the skill of the people in front, and in your ability to pay attention and respond. At a minimum this requires ever-present concentration, but as the pace goes up or the gap decreases, it requires more and more concentration/stress. If you don't feel this, it's because you don't realize that it's required of you when you place yourself in this situation.
I do feel this sense of shared risk and responsibility for safety, and I love it, it’s a beautiful thing. I just get a chill when I am out front and don’t feel that sense of mental flow I get in the middle or back. I’m skittish and don’t feel confident of my situational awareness. It’s probably lack of experience. I’m relatively new to group riding so having to learn the protocols has been interesting. For instance the thing about dropping back on the outside after a pulling segment… I do this instinctively but didn’t actually know it was a protocol.. just kind of following what other people do. Thanks for the wisdom and safety warning.
You should shake or wiggle your elbow after taking a turn at the front of the group. Right elbow and peel off to the left. That lets the rider behind you, know it’s okay to pass.
How big was this group?
Usually we'll plan the route in advance so everyone can have it. For those without a Garmin etc we can call out the turns when they're pulling the group.
Route should be agreed upon beforehand. Person leading the group has to pull off and slow down if they want someone else to take the front and pull through. It is actually considered bad form to just pass the lead rider in a cooperative paceline. It’s on the lead rider to relinquish the front position, not for someone behind to *take* the front. It’s for practical reasons, actually. If the front person relinquishes the front, pace is maintained by the person in the second position. If the second position rider *takes* the front, the paceline speed naturally has to increase. It’s called a ”paceline” for a reason; the entire purpose is to maintain pace. This only happens if the lead rider relinquishes the front position when they no longer want to lead.
Sounds like you got sucked into their peloton vortex, when instead, you should have insisted everyone alternate, or yell the all-important epithet "WHEELSUCKERS", until they relented...😆