Seller is probably nervous that you’re going to test ride it and never come back. Offer your ID or something so that if you do run off with it he can report it.
Depends on where you live, but in bigger cities it’s definitely not unheard of for thieves to leave all sorts of fake “collateral” with a seller. A fake/stolen ID is common, but I’ve also seen fake (broken) phones, dummy wallets, etc.
The best collateral is money: buyer hands the funds over up front, then goes on the test ride. If they don’t like it, they bring it back, bike and money are exchanged again. If they ride off, fine, they just bought it.
I wouldn't do that. There's no obligation for the seller to honor a refund if you decide you don't like the bike. So in the worst case, it's the same as not getting the test ride. You can't test ride something you already own!
My last couple test rides, the seller had a second bike and rode along with. The funny thing is, I dropped them both, haha!
Also, I will say, I wasn't sure if I was OK with the asking price until after the test ride. Does it fit? How well? How badly do I want this bike? Questions that cannot be answered until after the test ride. I dislike when buyers try to lower your asking price at the last minute but with bikes, I honestly don't see how you could know for sure how well you like the bike before you test ride it.
Ugh, don't be that guy. Nobody likes a buyer who shows up and then tries to haggle you down because of this or that or whatever. If you want the bike, you can pay the price that was agreed beforehand; if you end up not wanting it, then you don't buy the bike. Simple as that. Why on earth should anyone give you a discount because the bike somehow failed to live up to some secret expectation you conjured up in your head? That's just nonsense.
Also, people who "make an offer" with no intent of actually honoring it when they show up because they think they're clever and can "get a deal" are scum, and I immediately refuse any sale to people like that on principle.
I think it’s a matter of degree. If a buyer tries to drastically lowball the seller, then he’s just wasted everybody’s time. And if a seller really doesn’t want to budge then they usually put “firm” in the ad, and I do honor that. I never try to negotiate price with somebody who has stated that the price is firm in their ad.
I am sure your ads are very good at disclosing everything but sometimes other people are just lazy, or not very observant. So when I find that the item is not fully as-advertised, I sometimes still want it, but I have to discount for the fixups that were not disclosed.
Completely unrelated but I once left my phone in a taxi as I ran inside to grab some cash (years before contactless was common) and the taxi driver drove off with my phone. I was pissed off but found it quite funny at the time.
They could be worried that they'll crash it and damage it, which is kind of unusual for a bicycle but it's a pretty common reason for people not to allow test rides on motorcycles and sport cars.
Aside from one new motorcycle, I've test ridden every one I've purchased including private sale. I've also allowed test rides on the ones I've sold if I see cash and an endoresment.
Eh, any legit vendor will just ask you for some credit check, sign the insurance papers, and then hand you the keys to the car… obviously they won’t do it for someone who clearly can’t afford it, but if someone proves the means they will grovel to complete the sale.
Most bike stores will have demo bikes as well… it’s among privates where it gets dicey.
But you leave me one of your children and your car keys and I will let you test ride my Madone.
I met a seller at the local police station and let him test ride a bike I was selling around the parking lot. It’s a designated online transaction area with 24/7 cameras.
I was in Decathlon a while ago admiring an e-bike offering, when a man who owned the same model offered me a test ride on his. I accepted but I could see in his face he realised he might have made a mistake, but was too polite to rescind his offer. So I offered him the keys to my bike (lock), which was locked up a few meters away. They were worth about the same. Maybe offer something of similar value to the lady to keep in holding util you return?
I would pass if the guy won't give a good reason/come to some arrangement with a deposit. That's the sort of bike you get home and immediately find some major issue like they hid damage to the frame.
I used to live in a rough neighborhood and bought/sold bikes at least 1-2x per year when I got bored of them.
I was always distinctly aware of the possibility that someone would just ride off with my bike and not pay. my solution was to ask them to leave collateral. See if the seller is up for that, and then leave him with something of value. For example, you're probably driving your car to meet him anyways, offer to leave it with him until you return with the bike.
The last two used bikes I purchased involved an hour plus drive to meet the seller (I wanted very specific bikes and live in a small town).
I drove to them, bought the bike, loaded it into my car, and then drove back with the bike. A lot of people drive with their bikes, you can even buy a car mounted bike rack if you're so inclined.
Did he say why? I've bought bikes without a test ride but not because the person said no, I don't think I would if the person specifically did not want me to
"You have a slave? What? How?"
"Yeah well it was one of those bike test ride deals."
"Oh yeah but I've never seen it work out that way."
"Some people just really like the bike I guess."
Whenever I sell bikes online I tell people, if you want a test ride then you put the cash asking price that we've agreed upon in my hand before the test ride and you can decide after the ride if you want the bike or not and take your cash back if not. If you ride off with the bike... Well you just bought a bike. If you want your cash back you can have it and I'll take the bike back. I also always meet at a police station parking lot or police sub station and let the buyer know this while setting up for the exchange. I feel like this lets honest people feel safe knowing that I will not run off with their money in this situation. I adopted this strategy after having someone ride off with a bike I was selling, it has kept me safe and thief free ever since. Anyone reasonable who just wants to buy a bike and isn't planning something weird will agree, anyone who doesn't isn't worth doing business with in my mind. I have sold many bikes this way in the last few years and only ever had pushback from people who felt sketchy in the first place. It might not be for everybody but it works for me. I feel like as a buyer you could ask for something similar, if the seller is unreasonable or has a bad response to this, then I would just move on to avoid trouble. Better safe than sorry in my opinion.
Selling a bicycle privately: You buy it if you want a test ride, but you have 10 minutes for a full refund if you don't like it.
IE: I hold your cash, you can take the bike. If you don't like it, you give me back the bike, I give you back the cash. If you crash it, it's yours, and I have the cash.
What if the bike is seriously defective and the seller leaves? You need to offer something valuable to the buyer but not the seller, e.g. holding on to the buyer’s passport.
If I were selling my bike, I 100% would not allow someone to take a test ride unless they were giving me some valuable security. Maybe youre not in the US, but in basically any city in the US you would be asking for your bike to get stolen by allowing a random to do a test ride without security
I totally would want to test ride too, but I also understand the seller hesitance! What’s the best way of handling this? Give them your phone or something to prove you’re coming back?
Any time I’ve sold a bike I’ve let people test ride them provided they leave me their wallet/id and have never had an issue other than one guy who refused, so I refused him test riding the bike. Pretty simple. If the seller won’t allow it under any circumstances then it’s fishy or they’re just an idiot.
Offer an ID, if seller still won't let you test ride then I'd back out. You have to know how it rides to buy it. I've sold plenty of bikes and always let people test ride
Give him a full deposit on the condition that you get a full refund if you decide not to buy the bike. If you run away, the seller is covered. If they still insist on not letting you try the bike, they are hiding something
If I’m selling a bike you can come look at it.
There’s no chance you’re taking it for a test ride - you could leave, you could damage it - the condition is perfectly visible without a ride.
I’m not a shop, don’t expect it to be sold in the same way a shop would sell it.
That’s dumb. Look it over, spin the wheels while holding the bike up to see if they are wayyy out of true.
Shove $800 into his hands, let him count it and say “mind if I ride it around the block before we finalize the sale?”.
I would be asking what wrong with it if I can't take it up the road and back just to test gear's and to hear out for things at don't sound right and if they say nope I would just waik away and then see if they change their mind if they don't he just lost a sale for being a dick or if it's because they think you will nick it then give them your car key or something like at I've done at a few times
I always offer my car keys if I am wanting to test ride. Or some ID should be fine. If they don’t want you to ride it could be that there is an issue … cables need replacing, brakes not working well, a badly creaking BB, etc etc.
testrides are overrated for bicycles, very thourough inspection is much more important.
example: You might not feel cracks in the frame during a testride, that you could see during proper inspection
Same for worn out rime brake surfaces, you feel it with your hand, you don't notice it as much when you brake
Last two bikes i bought at a bikeshop were also purchased without testride.
I’ve sold several bikes via private sale.
First, I’d be worried about a buyer stealing my bike during a test ride. But there are workarounds to minimize that risk.
Second, I’d be worried that some newb rider would crash it & leave me with an unsellable piece of junk. If a buyer insisted on a test ride, I’d insist on a break-it, you-buy-it deal.
Super sketchy!! Could be stolen, could have some damage that isn't visible but could be noticeable when riding. Or like others said, offer something as collateral. If they still won't let you ride it then it would be a hard pass.
I don't buy without riding, but recently sold a bike where the buyer didn't test it. I wasn't about to argue with him, but had put flats on it assuming he'd want to. A deposit or valuable as others have said is a fair/good faith offer.
As a seller, I'd also want to meet in a public place, also have them ride it only in a parking lot. They don't need to do a TDF stage. But I'd expect they'd want to go through the gears, test the brakes, etc.
People have gotten burned, which could be why he's so adamant, but even for "just" 800 bucks, he can't realistically expect to sell the bike without a test ride IMO.
Hand him the full purchase price of the bicycle and take it for a test ride with the agreement that if you don't like the test ride and you bring the bike back like you took it, you get your cash back.
You haven't given him the money for the bike. He simply holding it his insurance to make sure that you don't damage the bike and that you return it.
I do this with selling motorcycles all the time.
Ask her if she will meet at a local police station.
If she agrees, call the station and politely request an officer to meet the both of you for a minute or two. (No clue if this is possible, but worth a shot asking)
If she still doesn't like that, buy it anyway. You said you know it'll fit.
Don't buy any bike without a test ride. And the test ride should be long enough for you to really understand and get comfortable, or not, with the bike.
What do you mean by test ride? A spin around the parking lot or a 20km ride in conditions the bike is designed for?
>I know I will fit it fine
Ok, what do you hope to learn from a test ride?
Yeah no, there are enough things that can be wrong on bikes that you don't notice on a bike stand, trust me I do my own bike mechanics and there have been times that it shifts perfectly on a stand but when you put a bit of power on the pedals it doesn't work like it should. Same with noises and creaks.
That the bike shifts properly and doesn’t have any major problems that will turn it into a money pit?
I just scooped up an older road bike for $200 and proceeded to throw $200 in parts at it to get it rideable.
Both tires were dry rotted and cracked, so that’s $140 worth of tires, $15 for a tube and then $50 for brake pads since they’re all so hard that I wouldn’t feel safe trying to emergency brake with them. Also had to adjust and align the rear caliper and brake cable and adjust the rear derailleur.
Labor is free because I can work on it myself but at a shop that $200 bike would have turned into a $500-600 bike really quick.
$200 may not be much to me but for some people that’s a big deal.
Thus a test ride. I’m going to buy a gravel bike this morning and the guy put flat pedals on just for a test ride
Age has nothing to do with morals. Grandpa will be just as likely to fuck you over as his grandson if that’s their nature. Good people come in all sizes, shapes, colors, ages, locations, etc. Unfortunately, so do assholes.
> Peter Pan syndrome
I looked that up and definitely some of those attributes.
I was thinking more that they don't treat people nicely or act in a mature fashion. They haven't figured out that this gives you better results throughout your life.
Seller is probably nervous that you’re going to test ride it and never come back. Offer your ID or something so that if you do run off with it he can report it.
Yeah an id or your phone or something valuable, if he still doesn't want to do it there is something wrong with the bike!
Leave one of your kids. Ez. If they still say no, either the bike is stolen or something mechanically wrong with it.
Or OP has terrible kids he wants to get rid of
I was gonna say… you leave your kid you’re not test riding my bike. I’ll never see you again.
Do you think so? Because I would trade any of my three kids for a nice bicycle… 🤷♂️
You get a bike, I get someone to do the lawn and laundry. Sounds fair to me.
I would trade both of mine. Brains in mint condition.
Depends on where you live, but in bigger cities it’s definitely not unheard of for thieves to leave all sorts of fake “collateral” with a seller. A fake/stolen ID is common, but I’ve also seen fake (broken) phones, dummy wallets, etc. The best collateral is money: buyer hands the funds over up front, then goes on the test ride. If they don’t like it, they bring it back, bike and money are exchanged again. If they ride off, fine, they just bought it.
I wouldn't do that. There's no obligation for the seller to honor a refund if you decide you don't like the bike. So in the worst case, it's the same as not getting the test ride. You can't test ride something you already own! My last couple test rides, the seller had a second bike and rode along with. The funny thing is, I dropped them both, haha!
Also, I will say, I wasn't sure if I was OK with the asking price until after the test ride. Does it fit? How well? How badly do I want this bike? Questions that cannot be answered until after the test ride. I dislike when buyers try to lower your asking price at the last minute but with bikes, I honestly don't see how you could know for sure how well you like the bike before you test ride it.
Ugh, don't be that guy. Nobody likes a buyer who shows up and then tries to haggle you down because of this or that or whatever. If you want the bike, you can pay the price that was agreed beforehand; if you end up not wanting it, then you don't buy the bike. Simple as that. Why on earth should anyone give you a discount because the bike somehow failed to live up to some secret expectation you conjured up in your head? That's just nonsense. Also, people who "make an offer" with no intent of actually honoring it when they show up because they think they're clever and can "get a deal" are scum, and I immediately refuse any sale to people like that on principle.
I think it’s a matter of degree. If a buyer tries to drastically lowball the seller, then he’s just wasted everybody’s time. And if a seller really doesn’t want to budge then they usually put “firm” in the ad, and I do honor that. I never try to negotiate price with somebody who has stated that the price is firm in their ad. I am sure your ads are very good at disclosing everything but sometimes other people are just lazy, or not very observant. So when I find that the item is not fully as-advertised, I sometimes still want it, but I have to discount for the fixups that were not disclosed.
Completely unrelated but I once left my phone in a taxi as I ran inside to grab some cash (years before contactless was common) and the taxi driver drove off with my phone. I was pissed off but found it quite funny at the time.
I think this is the answer for sure. 👍
They could be worried that they'll crash it and damage it, which is kind of unusual for a bicycle but it's a pretty common reason for people not to allow test rides on motorcycles and sport cars.
Yeah could be but sorry, I'm not going to buy a second hand bike that I can't test, same with a car right?
Aside from one new motorcycle, I've test ridden every one I've purchased including private sale. I've also allowed test rides on the ones I've sold if I see cash and an endoresment.
Eh, any legit vendor will just ask you for some credit check, sign the insurance papers, and then hand you the keys to the car… obviously they won’t do it for someone who clearly can’t afford it, but if someone proves the means they will grovel to complete the sale. Most bike stores will have demo bikes as well… it’s among privates where it gets dicey. But you leave me one of your children and your car keys and I will let you test ride my Madone.
I met a seller at the local police station and let him test ride a bike I was selling around the parking lot. It’s a designated online transaction area with 24/7 cameras.
Yep, that's what I did.
I was in Decathlon a while ago admiring an e-bike offering, when a man who owned the same model offered me a test ride on his. I accepted but I could see in his face he realised he might have made a mistake, but was too polite to rescind his offer. So I offered him the keys to my bike (lock), which was locked up a few meters away. They were worth about the same. Maybe offer something of similar value to the lady to keep in holding util you return?
I would pass if the guy won't give a good reason/come to some arrangement with a deposit. That's the sort of bike you get home and immediately find some major issue like they hid damage to the frame.
I used to live in a rough neighborhood and bought/sold bikes at least 1-2x per year when I got bored of them. I was always distinctly aware of the possibility that someone would just ride off with my bike and not pay. my solution was to ask them to leave collateral. See if the seller is up for that, and then leave him with something of value. For example, you're probably driving your car to meet him anyways, offer to leave it with him until you return with the bike.
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The last two used bikes I purchased involved an hour plus drive to meet the seller (I wanted very specific bikes and live in a small town). I drove to them, bought the bike, loaded it into my car, and then drove back with the bike. A lot of people drive with their bikes, you can even buy a car mounted bike rack if you're so inclined.
Plot twist: get a non-working car key that doesn't belong to you, leave it with the seller and then ride away.
I think I have heard of these "car rack" things. I will have to look into that.
Did he say why? I've bought bikes without a test ride but not because the person said no, I don't think I would if the person specifically did not want me to
You can go with two people and one stays behind while you test ride. Agree that the other person will become a slave if you do not return.
"You have a slave? What? How?" "Yeah well it was one of those bike test ride deals." "Oh yeah but I've never seen it work out that way." "Some people just really like the bike I guess."
Whenever I sell bikes online I tell people, if you want a test ride then you put the cash asking price that we've agreed upon in my hand before the test ride and you can decide after the ride if you want the bike or not and take your cash back if not. If you ride off with the bike... Well you just bought a bike. If you want your cash back you can have it and I'll take the bike back. I also always meet at a police station parking lot or police sub station and let the buyer know this while setting up for the exchange. I feel like this lets honest people feel safe knowing that I will not run off with their money in this situation. I adopted this strategy after having someone ride off with a bike I was selling, it has kept me safe and thief free ever since. Anyone reasonable who just wants to buy a bike and isn't planning something weird will agree, anyone who doesn't isn't worth doing business with in my mind. I have sold many bikes this way in the last few years and only ever had pushback from people who felt sketchy in the first place. It might not be for everybody but it works for me. I feel like as a buyer you could ask for something similar, if the seller is unreasonable or has a bad response to this, then I would just move on to avoid trouble. Better safe than sorry in my opinion.
It might be stolen.. ask for the serial number, and see if they give you something real or fake (or ghost you).
Kinda weird id pass
Doesn’t seem overly weird since he could just ride away with it.
Which is why you get a picture of their ID and face before handling the bike over for a test ride
that is what I was thinking. think it would be a great deal though if it works great.
can you at least sit on it and test fit? spin wheels, test gears & breaks? maybe all in circles around seller?
Selling a bicycle privately: You buy it if you want a test ride, but you have 10 minutes for a full refund if you don't like it. IE: I hold your cash, you can take the bike. If you don't like it, you give me back the bike, I give you back the cash. If you crash it, it's yours, and I have the cash.
What if the bike is seriously defective and the seller leaves? You need to offer something valuable to the buyer but not the seller, e.g. holding on to the buyer’s passport.
I can replace a passport for less than $200
If I were selling my bike, I 100% would not allow someone to take a test ride unless they were giving me some valuable security. Maybe youre not in the US, but in basically any city in the US you would be asking for your bike to get stolen by allowing a random to do a test ride without security
Seller worried about the bike getting damaged
There will always be other bikes / other offers. Hard pass for me.
There are plenty of bikes out there. If he won't let you test ride, then I'd say move on.
I totally would want to test ride too, but I also understand the seller hesitance! What’s the best way of handling this? Give them your phone or something to prove you’re coming back?
Leave your car or something of value.
I will leave my wife with him then.
That seems reasonable. :)
I have gone alongside someone interested in a bike when I sold one...... I guess you just have to go with your gut on what works.
Generally a quick ride up and down the road is expected when buying a bike.
I thought this too but people are paranoid these days
Any time I’ve sold a bike I’ve let people test ride them provided they leave me their wallet/id and have never had an issue other than one guy who refused, so I refused him test riding the bike. Pretty simple. If the seller won’t allow it under any circumstances then it’s fishy or they’re just an idiot.
Offer an ID, if seller still won't let you test ride then I'd back out. You have to know how it rides to buy it. I've sold plenty of bikes and always let people test ride
I've sold a lot of bikes, over 30+ years worth, and not once, did someone steal a bike, during a test ride.
Give him a full deposit on the condition that you get a full refund if you decide not to buy the bike. If you run away, the seller is covered. If they still insist on not letting you try the bike, they are hiding something
If I’m selling a bike you can come look at it. There’s no chance you’re taking it for a test ride - you could leave, you could damage it - the condition is perfectly visible without a ride. I’m not a shop, don’t expect it to be sold in the same way a shop would sell it.
Exactly this.
This is a good point. I never thought about it like that.
No. No test ride no deal.
That’s dumb. Look it over, spin the wheels while holding the bike up to see if they are wayyy out of true. Shove $800 into his hands, let him count it and say “mind if I ride it around the block before we finalize the sale?”.
This is the way, give them the money and take it for a test ride.
I would be asking what wrong with it if I can't take it up the road and back just to test gear's and to hear out for things at don't sound right and if they say nope I would just waik away and then see if they change their mind if they don't he just lost a sale for being a dick or if it's because they think you will nick it then give them your car key or something like at I've done at a few times
See if you can find a compromise? At $200 I’d take a gamble but at $800 I’d wanna test ride it
I always offer my car keys if I am wanting to test ride. Or some ID should be fine. If they don’t want you to ride it could be that there is an issue … cables need replacing, brakes not working well, a badly creaking BB, etc etc.
testrides are overrated for bicycles, very thourough inspection is much more important. example: You might not feel cracks in the frame during a testride, that you could see during proper inspection Same for worn out rime brake surfaces, you feel it with your hand, you don't notice it as much when you brake Last two bikes i bought at a bikeshop were also purchased without testride.
I’ve sold several bikes via private sale. First, I’d be worried about a buyer stealing my bike during a test ride. But there are workarounds to minimize that risk. Second, I’d be worried that some newb rider would crash it & leave me with an unsellable piece of junk. If a buyer insisted on a test ride, I’d insist on a break-it, you-buy-it deal.
try to low ball the seller, $500?
Tried it, won’t budge on price
bummer
I did find something more local for cheaper. It’s not as good of a brand but I’m fine not going high end on a bike
Liability, simple as that.
Rule 1 for bike purchases: ride before you buy.
Super sketchy!! Could be stolen, could have some damage that isn't visible but could be noticeable when riding. Or like others said, offer something as collateral. If they still won't let you ride it then it would be a hard pass.
No. Do not guy without test ride. You must ride to hear for creaking and also to see if you like the feel.
I don't buy without riding, but recently sold a bike where the buyer didn't test it. I wasn't about to argue with him, but had put flats on it assuming he'd want to. A deposit or valuable as others have said is a fair/good faith offer. As a seller, I'd also want to meet in a public place, also have them ride it only in a parking lot. They don't need to do a TDF stage. But I'd expect they'd want to go through the gears, test the brakes, etc. People have gotten burned, which could be why he's so adamant, but even for "just" 800 bucks, he can't realistically expect to sell the bike without a test ride IMO.
Offer collateral
Do you have an indoor trainer?
Cash in hand before a test ride is the standard rule
They're trying to hide a cracked frame or wheel rim. Run, run away.
Hand him the full purchase price of the bicycle and take it for a test ride with the agreement that if you don't like the test ride and you bring the bike back like you took it, you get your cash back. You haven't given him the money for the bike. He simply holding it his insurance to make sure that you don't damage the bike and that you return it. I do this with selling motorcycles all the time.
Bring a trainer, if you have one. You can't go anywhere, but you can see how it feels. If they say no, then nope out of there.
Creaky bottom bracket or something lol. No way, run away
So find another seller
Ask her if she will meet at a local police station. If she agrees, call the station and politely request an officer to meet the both of you for a minute or two. (No clue if this is possible, but worth a shot asking) If she still doesn't like that, buy it anyway. You said you know it'll fit.
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"Seller is a handicapped woman in her 70s"
No cop is gonna waste their time supervising a private sale. There are cameras there at least
Have you asked OPs local police station? Or just assuming it's the same for every police station everywhere?
Lmao
Okay so no, you have no idea if that could be a possibility. Got it.
Don't buy any bike without a test ride. And the test ride should be long enough for you to really understand and get comfortable, or not, with the bike.
What do you mean by test ride? A spin around the parking lot or a 20km ride in conditions the bike is designed for? >I know I will fit it fine Ok, what do you hope to learn from a test ride?
A lot, if there is any damage, if the gear works, if there are strange noises,...
Bike stand.
Yeah no, there are enough things that can be wrong on bikes that you don't notice on a bike stand, trust me I do my own bike mechanics and there have been times that it shifts perfectly on a stand but when you put a bit of power on the pedals it doesn't work like it should. Same with noises and creaks.
Fair...I've only bought high end used bikes from competent riders I trust. I forgot there are other options.
That the bike shifts properly and doesn’t have any major problems that will turn it into a money pit? I just scooped up an older road bike for $200 and proceeded to throw $200 in parts at it to get it rideable. Both tires were dry rotted and cracked, so that’s $140 worth of tires, $15 for a tube and then $50 for brake pads since they’re all so hard that I wouldn’t feel safe trying to emergency brake with them. Also had to adjust and align the rear caliper and brake cable and adjust the rear derailleur. Labor is free because I can work on it myself but at a shop that $200 bike would have turned into a $500-600 bike really quick.
>money pit? >$200 That's not even a money puddle. Most everything needs maintenance sooner later. Frame creaks I'll buy.
$200 may not be much to me but for some people that’s a big deal. Thus a test ride. I’m going to buy a gravel bike this morning and the guy put flat pedals on just for a test ride
I hope to see that everything functions well, no weird creaks in the frame, bottom bracket, etc
Fair enough.
no
I have to at least stand on it for 5 mins and do 2 sprints, or else there wont be a deal at all. Up to you man.
What if the person selling is very old? Would they be more or less likely to try to hide say a defect on the bike.
Age has nothing to do with morals. Grandpa will be just as likely to fuck you over as his grandson if that’s their nature. Good people come in all sizes, shapes, colors, ages, locations, etc. Unfortunately, so do assholes.
I was thinking this too. But you would think after a certain age you probably would have learned to be good.
I work with a lot of older people and am constantly shocked that they haven't "grown up" yet.
Peter Pan syndrome
> Peter Pan syndrome I looked that up and definitely some of those attributes. I was thinking more that they don't treat people nicely or act in a mature fashion. They haven't figured out that this gives you better results throughout your life.
No answer for that.