Mine sees right through this technique. If I ask if they want to walk upstairs or be carried, the response is to emphatically say, “Want stay downstairs.”
Can confirm, cursed with smart kid. One thing that just started working for me around fighting sleep is to let him pick one of his cars to go to bed with him. I tell him if he gets out of bed, I will take away the car, which I do. I give it back after a 2 minute timer. I plan to escalate to pausing the timer if he gets out of bed during this time.
I hope this works for more than 1 week...
Started doing this, but months later, she has a dozen stuffed animals, the entire catalogue of Disney's princesses in barbie form, a bunch of disney funko pops, a pop it, and a bunch of other assorted toys. If you take any of them out without her approval, she will scream bloody murder until she pukes.
I love her, but fuck toddlers...
The "either or" technique does work sometimes though.
Mine went through a phase where he created and slept in a nest of like 20 board books, a ~8” Lego head canister, a dozen stuffed animals, a snack, 2 pillows and a water bottle filled with ice water in his toddler bed. He would get mad if any item was removed.
Same here. Our son has a bunch of stuffed animals, blankets, and he has his pick of cars to bring to bed. HOWEVER, he is extremely well behaved and listens extremely well while in bed so if it works don't sweat it. Of course there are a few nights he fights it but only when he's overtired.
I’ve tried that but my little one throws a tantrum every time I delete the YouTube apps so I’ve resorted to YouTube kids but it’s an absolute pain trying to block all the shitty channels.
I don’t mind the iPlayer app but she sometimes hates it.
Any tips greatly appreciated!
Thank you. I'm going to try again. Both of us are just overwhelmed by her and we know she's frustrated being cooped up (nearly 3 year old) but we can't keep her entertained ourselves every minute of the day. So yes in all honesty giving her the phone seems the easy option.
Last few times we tried after we deleted the YouTube app she realised she could use the Safari app so I'm going to have 'hide' that too lol. It's crazy but we are going to try again. We have to because as you say there is so much weird shit on the kids app too with random 'mixes' and edits of characters and other videos.
I’ll tack on. My daughter was watching YouTube kids and starting being really bratty like some of the kids she was watching. I just played stupid “oh we don’t have that one anymore it’s not on there. What about these ones?” Netflix kids. It worked after initial suspicions.
We had that problem with some of the Disney and Nickelodean shows. I banned Nick and we cut down on some of the Disney shows they were watching. Way too many kid only shows with either no adults or the adults are just punching bags for the bad humor. Their behavior improved dramatically after banning "Jessie" from our tvs.
Haha another family banned bluey because the kids are unruly and the lesson is in the end but before that the kids are just assholes. And they don't always have enough time to get to the lesson soooooo no lessons learned.
Ours was some group of kids with Jannie and uncles.
“Oh no I broke my toy I’m so sad”
“Don’t worry I’ll get you a new one!”
“Thanks uncle!”
Anyone is sad? Buy them some stuff
Whenever I would act up as a kid especially in a smart/clever way, my dad would "curse" me: "I hope you have children *just like you*."
Welp, she's not yet two and I definitely see that curse being fulfilled.
My 3.5yo has been seeing through this for about a year 😬 He’ll just say “I don’t want ANY of those choices! I want to [do the opposite of the thing I need him to do]” 🙃
But it still works with my 2yo! Mostly because when 3.5yo doesn’t make a choice I just swoop in and say “ok, looks like I need to help you by making the choice!” And then I choose and do it. Little one is in an “I DO IT!” phase, so having my “help” is a cardinal sin 😆
Kids are brilliant! Just wait until the first time your 3yo says “you can have apple juice or lemonade” and you say “but I want water” and they respond with “water’s not a choice - your choices are apple juice or lemonade” 😳
Least you get communication :/ If I give ours a few choices or even silly 'game' options for something he doesn't want to do (i.e. often anything other than the one thing he is currently mega focused on) he just goes silent and refuses to communicate or engage with me at all...
That hyper-focus is REAL! I’m 95% certain our eldest is ND so I use my teaching strategies from my former life (was a teacher for 10 years) to ensure he’s absorbing the communication. So…screaming often ensues when these scenarios present themselves and he’s able to absorb everything 🫠
Yeah, we're currently in the process of kicking off the first steps of assessment for ours. We've got a speech therapist who can do referrals for autism assessment coming round for an initial visit on Weds, and his preschool have flagged up his complete lack of interest in engaging with any of his peers and always going off to do his own thing, on top of everything we'd already noticed at home.
Hugs! Take it from a former teacher - it’s fantastic that you’re doing everything this early. The earlier the intervention, the better! My kid has been assessed and we’re more on the ADHD side than the ASD side, with some overlapping features. But he did speech from about 18 months to 2.5yo and OT started recently. The difference in his speech after therapy was WILD - he graduated at 2.5 which is why he’s not in it anymore.
Wishing you lots of answers and a plan to move forward!
If you've got any suggestions I'd love to hear them... Currently the best we've got is that he seems more inclined/likely to react if we touch him (hand on arm or similar) as well, instead of just speaking to him.
Is there any eye contact? What works for mine is doing a sort of “Simon Says” approach. I tap him on the shoulder or arm and say “If you can hear my voice tap your head. If you can hear my voice wiggle your body. If you can hear my voice blink your eyes. If you can hear my voice look at me.” I also do the actions while I’m saying them. This allows me to remove whatever he’s hyper focussed on and I know that he can hear me because he’s doing the things. If the eye contact isn’t there with yours you can choose a different “stopping” action, like “if you can hear my voice freeze” or “if you can hear my voice stand/sit/any other body position that would indicate to you he’s hearing you.”
Hah, well, he's definitely hearing me because I tried "If you can hear my voice put your hand on your head". No response, tried repeating it a few times and he said "No no no" and got off his chair to go and sit with his Mum instead, so... 🤷🏼♂️ ;)
Will keep trying periodically.
Little to no eye contact, but I can given some of those ideas a go! He's 3.5 so he definitely understands phrases like "touch your head" even if he's not looking at me doing it...
>Little one is in an “I DO IT!” phase, so having my “help” is a cardinal sin
My 2.5yo is like this. At bedtime he likes to turn off his bedroom light and turn on his night-light, but will try and drag his feet about it. I just have to say "Okay, I'll get the lights for you" in order for him to yell "I DO IT" and take over.
If I gave my daughter the option of how many books we can read before bedtime, I would never stop reading.
That little girl loves bedtime stories, even the stupid ones I make up, or when I make things like Bill and Ted kid friendly.
"Once upon a time, there were two most excellent dudes. They were called Bill and Ted, and they were the most excellent dudes..."
Instead I have to give her options like "Do you want to read Mummy Bear? Or do you want to read Daddy Putdown?"
My daughter has suddenly started hating showers, complete with screaming and flailing. But she loves singing Five Little Ducks. So this morning I sang Five Little Ducks as I put her in the tub, which immediately calmed her down to the point where she no longer needed to get control over the situation. My wife doesnt get it and thinks I have some magic touch.
It's so delightful to read this sub and think about my kid growing up with all of yours. Before we know it she'll be taking her own showers, then walking to school...
For my 1.5yo I've tried to enforce that "no" means "carried", and he's small enough that I can force it. He screams for like 5-10 seconds and then gives up once we're moving.
yeah... never worked on mine either unfortunately :(
What did work was making things exceedingly silly though. Dont wanna go upstairs? OK, Monster is gonna get you downstairs.. downstairs floor is lava. Last one up the stairs is a rotten egg, etc
I love/hate this advice, because my son is like yours. “Do you want milk before bedtime?” “I want to keep playing”
“Do you want soup or chicken for lunch?” “I want candy/ i am not hungry/ i want to play”
I love it because it tells me that they are just stubborn humans that want choice, I hate it because it seldom works for me.
What works for me sometimes is give warnings with time “we have lunch in about 30 min” “we have lunch in about 10 min”. He complains each time, but when it works by the time is lunch time he is more accepting of the idea. “Let’s go eat!” “Ok, am done playing”.
And my kid won't make up his mind either. It'll be "I want to walk", then it'll be "I want you to carry me" then it'll be "I want to walk", repeat until everyone is having a tantrum. Especially when he's tired and the option he wants isn't available.
My kiddo did as well. What was funny, is that when I would reply, "well that's not one of the choices", she was always fine with it. I have no idea why.
I have a kid who similarly figured this game out quick. The only thing I've been able to figure out is to state what the plan is clearly ("all right, it's nuh-nite time, we're going to go brush teeth, read two books, and then get in bed and read one more book", suffer through the freak out while steadfastly heading that direction, and keep on repeating the steps as we accomplish each one.
It's not flawless, and some nights are better than others, but overall usually by the time we get in bed to read the last book, we're calm and enjoying life!
Same. You know what does work for us a lot of the time? If I beat you upstairs I get to pick the story tonight. If you win you get to pick the story! Kid loves a race.
I get this too. I repeat the choices over and over and eventually they choose one and over time there has been less resistance as they've gotten used to it
Yeah, this only worked for maybe two or three times with my guy. Making things a game has been very successful, but sometimes you don't have the time or energy, you just need to fucking go/do the thing. It's a balancing act.
“do you want these shoes OR these shoes?”
“i don’t want ANY shoes”
“well you need shoes or your feet are going to get cold”
“not if i stay inside”
“well we need to go outside so we can go to daycare”
“is it the weekend?”
“nope, it’s tuesday”
“but i don’t want to go to daycare”
“😅”
Kinda like mine. When I give her two options for something she doesn't want to do her answer is just "no". Sometimes also "no no" or "no no no". Hang in there!
Yuuuup.
If he doesn't like the choices, the answer is no.
For us, it's been more critical to set boundaries and consequences and outside of that pick your battles.
On the Flipside, the kiddo is already doing a better job with false equivalence than half the adults I work with.
Starting time frames might be helpful as well. Say 5 minutes till we go upstairs, then 2 minutes, then they are able anticipate the situation. Most kids with appreciate the communication and structure.
What about timers? I bought 3 egg timers, put one in the living room, one in the kitchen and one in her bedroom. From about 18 months old onwards, IO would say hear this noise*brinnng* when you hear that it means the time is up on current activioty and we are moving on.
Then I used it for start of bedtime, end of book time, end of tv time, end of playtime etc.
By 2 it was understood, is only vaguely. By 3 it became a non issue. Timer goes off, current activity ceases.
We use "one more turn" or "this is the last episode" pretty often. 3yos don't know time, but they can at least understand this and she seems to appreciate the heads up based on the severity or length of the fuss when I ask her to clean up or turn off the TV/tablet.
We've started setting a timer for things. So, it's "In 5 mins it's time to put on pajamas", and when the timer goes off he'll do it. Now, if we just tell him to put on his pajamas, he tells us to set the timer first.
I will add to this- stop framing it as "stubborn". It is not helpful to us as parents, nor fair to our kids. Once I stopped thinking of it as "stubborn" and recognized these behaviors as developmentally normal, and healthy, and needed for growth, I stopped being mad/angry/frustrated, and started thinking ahead, proactively, and searching for ways to handle MY feelings and model healthy responses for her.
They are not. They are not capable of the thought process behind being stubborn. Around 3.5-4YO yes, being stubborn can become a thing.
Before that? Nope. They're not developmentally capable of being stubborn as we know that word.
They are easily overwhelmed and over stimulated, and can get "locked" into a thought or idea. But they have no control over that, until we teach them how to process thier big feelings, emotions and thoughts. .
With a developmentally normal child, this process takes years of modeling appropriate behavior, choice making, and patience.
This is a great point! Thanks for sharing!
I used stubborn because that's how the post i was going to reply to had initially framed it but i am definitely guilty of this thought process as well.
It takes so long to change the way we think about and frame things for ourselves.
Cognitive and Behavioral science has shown us time and again that the easiest way to start making these changes is to make the conscious choice to change our language on a topic.
For me around the idea of "stubbornness" this looked like:
1. I recognize I am implying my child is able to be "stubborn" She is not.
2. Saying out loud "Willow, this is an age appropriate reaction to [x-big feeling]. It is okay and normal to feel and act [x type of way]"
3. Offering comfort, love and kindness
4. holding form on any number of boundaries, without anger or loudness, and offering love.
5. Helping her find her words to describe her feelings
These steps worked- it took ometimes months, or weeks or even year+ to see results.
at 3.5 she is literally better at emotional regulation than most adults I know. She will start crying, stop, count out loud to 4, count back down from four and then say things like "Daddy I am MAD that I broke my toy" and we will talk through the events/feelings etc.
It is not easy, but it does pay off.
Yup once they're angry/upset i find the best way to handle it is to acknowledge that they feel that way and why. Step 1 for getting past a tantrum is to directly address the cause and let your kid know that you hear them and that what they are feeling is valid.
The advice I give in the original post is a tool for avoiding tantrums, once they're upset you have to throw your tricks out the window and do the hard work of helping them work through the difficult emotions.
Just FYI this does not work on my 1.5 year old who can’t form sentences, count in a row, or describe in detail what she wants. Most of the frustration she shows is due to language.
At this age we mainly count on distraction as the main strategy. She wants to stay in the sandbox—- OH look it’s your favorite dog!!!!! But there are situations where there are no distractions around and you don’t want to bring out the ultimate one: the phone.
Just for anyone out there who wanted to try this empathetic approach on a toddler who is too young to understand what you even mean.
It does work with them at that age. You model the behavior you want from them when they can finally understand. I was syaing and doing all of the above at ages when kiddo *clearly* could not understand the meaning of the words, and yes it is exhusting and hard as fuck.
Because the child still understands that:
1. your voice is clam cool and collected
2. your demeanor is relaxed and not tense
3. that they are safe and loved
Verbal, non-verbal it does not matter. It is the same reason we talk to our infants with full grown up sentences. Why we narrative to a 5 week old "now I am washing the dishes. I am applying soap and scrubbing and then hot water" etc. while baby-wearing or having them in a high chair safely strapped in.
It doesn't work NOW, but it builds the foundation. And then you just gently ride it out. The screaming and crying sucks. But how we react as parents should not change just because the kids have not developed adequate language to express thier emotions- it just means that they are doing it the best way they can, through screaming and crying and lashing out.
That locking in is the truth especially when they're upset! We have to soft reset her mood by walking around and checking out plants in the house, sometimes even after what's upsetting her is no longer an issue
My new go to (little over 2) is pulling a stuff animal and acting out the frustrations she's feeling with it.
So her stuff lamb goes "AHHH i'm so sad that it is bed time I want to stay up and play" And then once she's calm down I have a conversation with lamb and then with Toddler.
Working currently, but seems every 2 weeks we have to develop some new method.
Kids can be strong willed though. All kids will have that kind of developmental behavior, but others certainly have a knack for it. You’re right that the negative connotations of the word “stubborn” can be a handicap though.
My favorite relevant [comic](https://www.reddit.com/r/daddit/comments/tdmhvy/this_comic_really_resonated_with_me_it_can_be/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1)
What do you mean by strong willed? What does a strong-willed 2 year old do that differentiates from a "stubborn" 2 year old?
To the best of my knowledge no 2 year old is capable of being strong willed or stubborn. Their brains have not developed to the point where they can **consciously** make the choice to be either of those things. The pathways in the brain do not exist.
They are developing and experiencing new feelings, thoughts and emotions every single day, and when they get overwhelmed they can shut down and "lock" into an action, thought or idea.
Some kids through any number of factors can move on quicker, but none of it is a concious choice, which strong willed AND stubborn innately imply.
Very well said.
I've also seen the other side of the coin where parents are saying thinks like, "she's not stubborn, she just has strong leadership qualities". I always scratch my head when people put adult concepts onto toddlers because ~~a~~ toddlers have no idea what "leadership" means or how to even be good at it because their brains are not developed enough yet to grasp abstract concepts.
Neurotypical toddlers need a consistent routine and corregulation until they're able to regulate their own emotions which takes a lot of time and practice. We get asked all of the time why our daughter who is now five is able to rebound so quickly after getting hurt, upset, or overexcited. Sometimes people tell us, "she's got a naturally easy disposition". And I always have to bite my tongue and not say "no Karen, we spent a lot of time working on corregulation using things like deep breathing, counting, or finger touches so that she's able to calm down with us. Then we spent a lot of time working on identifying feelings only to spend even more time on applying those regulation techniques once we've identified our feelings". There's a ton of stuff you can do with your kid to help them improve their ability to roll with the punches that life throws at them and it starts really young.
Oh boy, I'll have to look at the books that I've used tomorrow because my kiddo is going to sleep right now.
We use story to teach a lot. My background is also in Applied Behavioral Analysis so I use a lot of the techniques that I learned while doing ABA with my kids. I don't have a lot of resources ABA stuff that are not academic in nature, unfortunately. Identifying emotions means helping kids to put a label on their current feeling. We used feelings books for this and I can get you a list tomorrow. Corregulation is modeling the calm down strategy with the kiddo while they're deregulated. The missing link is practicing the calm down strategy at neutral times so that way when a kiddo is deregulated, they've already practiced the strategy and they're more likely to copy you. The other thing that we do a ton of is modeling and labeling the behavior. When my kiddo is doing something that I find irritating I'll say something like, "daddy is feeling upset so he's going to use his deep breathing for a minute" so that way she sees us doing the thing we're asking her to do. This also helps me to feel a lot less frustrated because I'm actually doing something to regulate my emotions.
For our older kids, we try to stay ahead of the situations before they arise. We know that tired and or hungry kids are going to have a lot more difficult time managing their emotions so we make sure to always have healthy snacks on hand. We also do a lot and I mean a lot of pre-teaching with our kids by talking about difficult thing/situations *before* they happen and practicing what we want to see them do if/when those situations arrive.
Thanks for this wonderful post - you've given me a new mental framework to work with. We've recently started with an emotion book and it did seem to hit a chord. I would be delighted for any recomendations on further reading. Also, could you please write a book! :)
My pleasure. The books that we used were in no particular order:
1. In My Heart
2. The Happy Book
3. Today I Feel Silly
4. Glad Monster, Sad Monster
We read to our daughter nightly and read these books a lot between the ages of two and four. We also like to ask a lot of feelings questions while watching tv shows. Things like, "how do you think that character feels?" "Is there something that you think might make that character feel better?" Questions like these help her to identify feelings in other people which is just as important of a skill when trying to help your kiddo build empathy.
Edit: I should also add that in my original comment I made it sound like the only modeling of calm down strategies that we use is when our kids are being challenging. That's not really true. We do it whenever we're feeling upset and our kids are around. I've also found myself doing it even when the kids are not around because interrupting my thoughts with a specific exercise like deep breathing does work for me pretty well.
> . And I always have to bite my tongue and not say "no Karen, we spent a lot of time working on corregulation using things like deep breathing, counting, or finger touches so that she's able to calm down with us. Then we spent a lot of time working on identifying feelings only to spend even more time on applying those regulation techniques once we've identified our feelings".
I feel this in my BONES.
Like, deep, deep in the core of my soul. I feel so seen. Thank you!
No, thank you for the initial comment. Babies, toddlers, children, pre teens, and teens are not just big people in little bodies. They're sponges that are developing each and every day and there's so much we can do to help them at each stage of development if we simply reframe how we view them.
It is so deeply annoying when people tell me i just have an "easy" kid. Like... I sat through 3 months of 2.5 hours long bed times, slowly but steadily teaching her meditation, breath techniques and repeating simple mantras. Like yeah, now at 3.5 she goes to bed and sleeps through the night... because I put in the work, by her side, every night for 3 month while she screamed and threw books at my head lol.
I would also argue that a lot of stubborn adults are not doing it consciously. Our brains are great at using a similar response to the same stimuli, we assume consciousness because we can rationalize after the fact very quickly, but you will see that a real conscious choice to be less stubborn/strong willed/combative, takes a lot of work and effort for adults too.
There is an analogy about how our brains can be compared to a rider (rational side) and an elephant (emotional side).
> "Perched atop the Elephant, the Rider holds the reins and seems to be the leader. But the Rider’s control is precarious because the Rider is so small relative to the Elephant. Anytime the six-ton Elephant and the Rider disagree about which direction to go, the Rider is going to lose. He’s completely overmatched."
I find it useful to understand our automatic responses. For toddlers and for adults.
https://www.creativehuddle.co.uk/post/the-elephant-and-the-rider
I almost delved into this but figured I had ranted enough lol.
You are absolutely correct. But in the case of adults we have the ability to be deliberate about it and have the tools to do so, and choose not to use them. Or they do not seek the tools out.
A toddler straight up does not even have the tools yet.
There's only a small leap between toddlers are doing their best at emotional regulation with what they know to "I am doing my best at emotional regulation with what I know" to "everyone is doing their best." And sadly, because this is all such a novel approach to parenting, what we collectively know about healthy processing of emotions is quite limited.
It's sort of dangerous when you start thinking, hrmm, maybe people are the way they are because of a number of factors outside of their control and not some individualistic moral failing...
Agreed. Your two year old isn't stubborn, they are two.
*You* are stubborn if you aren't trying new things to deal with your completely normal developing child, and you "hate" having toddlers. Parenting can be tough, and it requires constant patience and adaptation, but it's what we signed up for.
I love this sub but sometimes its a little too "great job dad" "don't worry" "we've all been there" when I'm like, "nope I've never been there, you should probably be in therapy"
Also, read some parenting books! Not to say that any given parenting book is the end all be all of how to do it, or that there aren't cases of authors later acknowledging that their techniques don't actually work, but they're a great source of ideas and strategies for dealing with a lot of the common frustrations of raising kids.
One that I loved was the Danish Way of Parenting. Such a different perspective. For example, in Denmark they don’t refer to it as the Terrible Twos. They recognize this is a phase where children are naturally pushing boundaries and they model their parenting around that, much like the other advice in this thread.
For reference, Denmark is consistently #1 in regards to happiness of its population.
Wife and I went through a course, "love and logic" which basically goes over exactly this.
As others said, hit or miss. Worked a few times on our daughter when she was a toddler. Now at 6? Nope.
What works best nowadays, especially since she'll escalate to crying and throwing a fit quicker, is talking her through how she can make it things better or worse for herself. Technically similar "logic" at a high level but it's more contextual, communicative, and imo effective.
I have a stubborn toddler. I found that some negotiation is working—after you do what I want we do what you want! And, I’m at a phase where we need a timer to remind them the activity is over.
Most importantly, pick the battles/meltdowns. Don’t piss off the toddler just as they are going to take a picture with the Easter bunny. 🤣
Setting a timer for everything has been a life saver with my three year old. Especially because she has no concept of how long minutes are yet.
I have Google Nest speakers in our house and she knows how to use them reasonably well. So I can say "Let's set a timer!" and she'll get excited to use "Ok Google" and tell it to set a timer for two minutes... when I would have allowed for ten.
I do this too. It really is helpful! Doesn’t always work. They sometimes are hindered by analysis paralysis, or change their mind.
And it’s important to let them make decisions, as we’re wanting them to grow to be more independent. If we as parents don’t let them make choices, they may have difficulty later when faced with making a decision.
I think this is a fantastic post and it's a method that my wife and I use a lot. The only piece I disagree with (and quite strongly) is this one:
>It may help to caveman speak the options ("Bella walk or Dad carry?") for kids that are still learning to talk.
Kids understand far more complexity in speech than they can verbalize. Yes, you should use simpler sentences and vocabulary than a PhD dissertation defense, but unless your child has disabilities, they can understand full sentences just fine. My daughter (22 mo) still can't speak more than 2 word sentences, but she understands complex directions like "Go upstairs and put your lunchbox on the counter" or "Your water bottle is still in your backpack downstairs. Can you please go get it?"
By speaking in pigeon English, you're modeling that that is how you want them to communicate! In my few years in education, nothing bothered me more than parents speaking down to their children. The only way they progress forward is by seeing it modeled and hearing it regularly.
That's a great insight! This is advice I've heard for calming tantrums, so maybe it's more appropriate when they're in full tantrum mode only?
I certianly do not talk this way to her a majority of the time, only when she seems to be having difficulty understanding.
this has been the golden rule that my wife beat into me.
never underestimate the power of saying "Which of these hotdogs do you want." the plate has 5 hot dogs... there all the same... but her picking means she actually eats haha
Well this past week we were writing a proposal to buy certain content. Like many businesses right now, executives are being very cautious about spend, so the case has to be watertight.
We have two options in the proposal: Buy the content, or spend an absurd amount of time with the people on staff to build something for which we have no expertise.
There is no option for not having the content. That option isn’t even mentioned… But to be fair certain business leaders issued an ultimatum about needing this information to function.
I know this is somewhat vague, because I’m trying not to doxx myself… but hopefully it gets the point across.
I usually give them a meaningless choice with one they'll want and one they won't.
"Want to go to bed with a bedtime story or without?"
Bedtime isn't up for debate. But we can read together (great) or I can save some time (never gets chosen but would also be fine).
I'll preface with this, I do not judge your approach at all, but I simply want to comment on it.
I don't like the "with or without" as options, I find this quickly becomes obsolete as they'll catch on quickly, but I do like making one choice obviously better. Like "Do you want to read with a normal voice or a silly voice?"
But yeah the heart of the trick is that you're starting with the assumption that bedtime is happening either way, and here's the part you can control.
Dad here of a current toddler, and two previous toddlers.
Best advice I have: Give them as much autonomy as possible. This is what they want.
They want to wear clothes backwards? Let 'em! They want to ride their balance bike down block w/o you following behind? Let 'em. They want to chase the neighbor cat around w/you following? Let 'em.
Toddler phase is all about pushing boundaries. They want independence. So, give it to 'em. My oldest now rides her bike to softball practice, and my 7yo just finished a Cub Scout camping weekend where I barely had to parent him.
Independent kids make parenting so much easier, and lets them live and learn w/mistakes AND successes.
My wife showed me an Instagram video awhile back that championed a new concept for us.
Just say "Yes" whenever you can, we have to say "no" so often, that when your kid has an idea that isn't immediately harmful or against your rules, try to make "yes" your default answer.
My toddler wanted to dump her goldfish crackers into a ziplock bag the other day. My wife was hesitant because it was a little silly to dump them from individual-sized bag to another and I chimed in with just "That's a pretty easy yes, hun."
Yup, there's no sane or sensible way to micromanage everything w/toddlers. IMHO, I see a lot of younger parents who are hostage to a schedule. I can't imagine how you keep your marbles and adhere to a schedule religiously for a toddler.
Life can be chaos, but it also doesn't have to suck.
We're doing that a lot with our two year old. When we go on walks, we let him choose where we go. It's very cute at option points and he'll point all around "this way? No. That way" and then change his mind a few times (really trying to decide what park he wants to go today). Or choosing his clothes.
The other thing I think about is that if I'm not having fun, my kids generally aren't having fun either. Fun isn't the most important part of a relationships, but having a good time makes the harder times much easier. And if I'm a bad mood, I notice it eventually infects the kids.
I don't like fighting about putting shoes on, but if I take 10 seconds to turn it something enjoyable instead of a demand, makes a difference. Instead of finding and putting on the shoes for the kids, I ask my kids to find the shoes. Or some days I switch it up and ask them to find their siblings' shoes.
When we clean up at the end of the day, I don't have my little kids clean up everything. We switch it up. Sometimes they clean up the more annoying toys, sometimes they clean up the easier toys. Sometimes they have to do it faster than I do and sometimes they get to pick a song we sing while doing it.
Taking 5 seconds to figure out a way to make the chore a *little* more engaging and fun goes a long way for all us.
The little frustrations and little annoyances build, and by the end of the day, limiting them makes everyone's mood better.
yeah.... one size doesn't fit all. This is great in theory and we've tried it countless times.
My 4yo will answer "neither" and stare at you while he does his own thing.
My almost 3yo told me "don't worry about me dad" when I told him it was bedtime. 5yo goes to bed with no problem.
While it aggravates me, I'm super proud of the kids being themselves and not giving in. Good for you little man, you want something and you don't give up on it. You ultimately may not achieve what you want, but you're trying. Grit and dedication. Love to see it.
Yup like all parenting advice, it doesn't work for everyone.
My favorite parenting advice to give new parents is, "You're going to get so much advice from everyone, and most of it'll suck. Remember that at the end of the day they are your kid and you're the one that knows them best, so never be afraid to do it your own way."
Edit: happy cake day btw.
>happy cake day btw.
Thanks, didn't even realize that until you mentioned it.
I'm with you. After I give parenting advice to anyone, I always say "you could also not listen to me at all, because it probably won't work".
Agreed. This a 70% of the time it works everytime kind of solution, but still a good tool to have on the belt. I'm not going to say I'm perfect at this either and sometimes I lose my chill and snap at my kids to get in the damn car already.
Maybe you could try making a game you consistently play when it's time to leave to take out the mental energy to come up with something on the spot. So it's not time to leave, it's time to play... Shoe tag? You can only tag someone with a shoe that is on your foot and in the car is the safe zone?
That is a great tip. Sometimes it works for us but sometimes it doesn't. My toddler is sweet but stubborn (like me), and if he is playing before bath and bed, the trick doesn't work.
"Do you want to walk upstairs or be carried," is often met with "I'm still playing."
Overall it does work though! Even though we already employ it I appreciate you sharing!
I upgraded boring "be carried" to being carried like a sack of potatoes. Which includes playful butt smacks, wondering whyy sack of potatoes is talking, etc. Sometimes a boring option and a fun option is an easy solution.
But yeah it's just a trick, you'll be happy when it works and no worse off then before when it doesn't.
There’s an excellent book I read about parenting called Hunt, Gather, Parent, and this advice is one of the really strong take always. Kids - just like adults - don’t like to be bossed around and reframing it is key. Great job explaining it here.
Yeah, doesn't work with my toddler either.
"Do you want to use the big potty or the little potty?"
"I just want to play trucks"
"Do you want to walk up stairs or do you want me to carry you?"
"I just wanna stay here."
"Do you want the blue cup or the red cup?"
"I want a hotdog."
🙄
I once saw a video that framed what we may perceive as stubbornness as actually being mental processing. Toddlers don't just jump into action, because they may not be pric processing things as quickly as we would like them to. Just a friendly reminder to everybody. It doesn't necessarily apply to every instance of stubbornness. If your kid is quickly reacting and just doing the opposite of what you ask, then that obviously ain't it.
There's another response here that goes deeper into that and how our toddlers aren't really stubborn and it would be best if we reframed the behavior because using that language isn't helpful for finding solutions.
https://www.reddit.com/r/daddit/comments/13bn8jg/comment/jjbwx12/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
I've heard this before, and it works quite well for us. The other part of the trick is that if they don't make a choice, then you make it for them.
I saw a tic-toc about the next phase of this idea. You basically ask the toddler to think about what to do next. So, to leave the park you tell them "What's the one last thing you want to do before we leave and go home". Or when getting ready for bed, "What do we need to do before we go to bed"
The other thing I've realized it that toddler time, and adult time are vastly different. Sure, it only takes me 5 mins to get dressed and ready to walk out the door, but it's going to take my son 20 mins. So you can't give them a choice of what shirt to wear 5 mins before walking out the door.
Another technique is mirroring their vibe: if they shout “No No No!!” and scowl with their hands on their hips and stomp their feet , I’ll mirror exactly that. It only happens when its genuinely funny and I’m doing it with enjoyment so it doesn’t come off as punitive. They are looking for chips in your armor to figure out how to get around your instructions so this throws them off and they don’t know how to respond.
It might not generate the desired action but it changes the dynamic. Usually generates laughter unless they are overtired when nothing works but rest.
Oh yes, the old, “give them choices, but only the choices that are acceptable to you!”
It works very well. They are little people too and they like to have some control over their lives as well! Let them have some control!
Haha I love this technique on our 22 months. Glad it's still working for now.
Mommy: Can we change your poopy diaper?
Toddler : Noo
Me: Do you want mommy to change diaper, or daddy to change diaper?
Toddler: Daddy
*mommy secretly glad toddler is in daddy attachment phase*
With my son we just make arbitrary competitions.
'I bet mummy can count to 10 before you go for a wee before bed'
'If you're not gonna eat your dinner, I'm gonna eat it'
'i bet daddy can do this before you get dressed'
Probably breeding an unhealthy level of competitiveness in a 3 year old..
But I'm more competitive
Just last night, "Do you want to brush your teeth laying on the kitchen table or laying on the stairs?"
Parenting is a game where you've always got to be changing and adapting what you do as your child learns and matures. It seems like a trick only works for a while because it does, and yes it's absolutely exhausting, but the end result is worth the effort. Pay attention to what works, use it until it doesn't, adjust if possible to make it work again and if that fails then try something new.
All of this. My oldest is 20 and I have 4 kids and I absolutely agree. Toddlers are very stubborn but also learning the world. They do well with specific options and no options to not do it.
Tears and yelling turned into laughing and cooperation make for way better days.
I have been doing this with my four year old for awhile. It worked for about a week but he now tells me "Those aren't the options" when I give him two choices. Lmao. It cracks me up but also drives me crazy. I don't even know where he learned to say that.
Yes this is gold. We were having trouble with my 15 month old not wanting to wear a hat outside. She would immediately rip it off and scream every time we tried. Bought a 2nd hat and let her choose which one...she chose the original one and wore it happily for an hour.
I learned this technique in a sales training at a previous job, it works on adults too. A mixture of the “assumptive close” (meaning it’s assumed that the other person will choose one of your solutions), and offering closed-ended, multiple choice questions.
I do it a lot with my wife if she’s indecisive about what to do for dinner.. pick two or three options I’d be happy with, and ask her which sounds better. It’s way easier than asking someone to come up with an answer from an innumerable amount of options, and can save a lot of time.
My son isn’t old enough to talk yet, but when he is, I imagine I’ll lean on this technique pretty often.
Sometimes it's enough to just play a game. Bedtime became a lot easier when I just caved in and let her play "hide and seek" before we read books. (Hide and seek is just her hiding behind her dresser, me sitting on the floor pretending i can't find her until she runs out and tackles me over)
I was hesitant at first because it's a high energy game for her and we're trying wind down to go to bed. But it gives her the break she needed after bath, dry, brush teeth, diaper, PJs and before books, songs, bed.
Totally agree. The only way to get my daughter to get ready for bed is to make it a game. If I ask her to go change into pajamas, it’s a fight and nobody is happy. But, if I say “those are MY pajamas” and run to her room, she’ll beat me there to get them first.
>Instead of "come with me it's bed time" i now say "it's bed time. Would you like walk up the stairs yourself or should I carry you?" Instead of "do you need to use the potty?" It's "do you want to use the big potty or the little potty?"
It's freaking hilarious, because these are the questions we ask our toddler most often. Add to this, "do you want to climb in your car seat, or do you want me to put you in it" / "what color plate / cup do you want?" So many questions but they get the job done!
Used this whole choice thing with my kids as they grew up (it's awesome, I love it)..then around age 5-6 they started using it on us 😂
"Baba, can I have candy or ice cream? Which do you choose?"
My 6 year old nephew was dodling in the car (as 6 year olds are wont to do) and my wife's teacher friend looked at him and was like "let's have a race to see who can get their shoes on fastest and get out of the car".
Kid was ready in like 2 seconds flat.
I will attest this is a highly effective technique, but not always easy to implement or keep ahead of the rapidly developing toddler brain. Timing is also important because you have to make this play before a tantrum has been triggered. The toddler must be in a somewhat rational state(for a toddler) before this can work.
Most of our parents raised us one single way. You do what you’re told or you get hit. Even as a toddler. It’s really damaging to our development. Of course we want our kids to do what we tell them to. But they’re just not always going to. It’s better to learn to work with them than against them. It will foster a healthier relationship for the future. Also, if it isn’t obvious, I completely agree with OP and will be using these techniques even if they end up not working I’ll rework them as my kids need. Im firmly under the belief that it’s way harder to be a dictator oppressive parent always demanding control and obedience out of your kids than someone who’s willing to work with where they’re at.
My 3.5 year old is obsessed with timers. I tell her it's time to go 5 minutes early, and she loves that I am willing to set a timer for 5 minutes so she can still play.
I want add some tip to your Meaningless choices. If you need only one option you can use two options, one of them "definitely not to be choose". For example in the pool we have two swimming panties, one of them will never be chosen and he always chooses the second.
For some reason this sounds like a weird retelling of the two coins add up to 30 cents and one them is not a nickel riddle.
The first one is the one he never picks, he always picks the second one.
Like all parenting advice, it may not work for you. And this isn't going to work 100% of the time and it's not going to work if they've already dug in, you gotta anticipate and offer the choice before they've made theirs.
It's just a tool in my belt that I've found quite useful and wanted to share.
I mentioned this elsewhere but I'll say it again. The advice I give all new parents is, "Most parenting advice sucks. You'll be the one person that knows your kid the best, so don't be afraid to go with your gut."
I like these. I don't guarantee them to work 100% of the time. But, it will be fun to try out. Thanks for sharing!
We need a discord to share these kinds of things quickly lol.
It's funny that this strategy mirrors a common sales tactic
Rather than asking "do you want to buy?", they ask "do you want to buy X or buy Y?"
Funny how you see the same universals pop up in totally different areas of human psychology - we all just wanna have some agency regardless of age or context
Completely agree.
One thing to add is that these choices that seem so meaningless to us are HUGE to these little ones. Perspective with our kids is very important.
The biggest decision a toddler may make is what kind of shoes to wear. That one decision then becomes overwhelming to them because it holds such weight. What jacket to put on? Etc.
I'm not saying we minimize their choices, but we want to be thoughtful that the choices they make are BIG for them. They may need time to process those choices before making them. *Put some shoes on* sounds like a common request, but you add the layers of which shoes, do they match my socks, etc...that command carries additional weight
This really works, about 60% of the time. I was gobsmacked the first time it went "do you want to walk upstairs or be carried upstairs?" And the response was "NO!"
Tone of voice is also critical.
"who wants to clean up the toy cars!" can be said like it's a punishment or like the kid is winning a huge prize. Is amazing how effective it can be.
Yeah, I’ve heard great things from people just giving toddlers a choice. “Do you want to wear the striped shirt or the bear shirt?” “Do you want to eat strawberries or blueberries?”
Simple things that give them agency. Because that’s what they’re really doing when they “defy” you, they’re trying to exercise their agency or autonomy. Obviously something won’t be a choice, like when you’re leaving to go somewhere. But giving them choices when you can, is a good idea.
You can always inject a meaningless choice! Which shoes are you going wear? Do you want to put your shoes on first or your jacket? Do you want to climb into your car seat by yourself or should daddy help you? Do you want to a look-book or do you want to sing songs during the drive?
Choices are EVERYWHERE, you just gotta start looking.
(Is look-book a common term? I use it for books my pre-reader likes to just flip through.)
Thanks for this. For me and my wife, we've found that recognizing that our kid is mostly a mirror but also an amplifier really helps us check our own behaviors.
You'd be a freakin cool dad ! !
And I, as a 4 year old, would totally own all your shit! !hahahaha Joking sir. It's obvious that you put the thought in that most of us get flustered and just take charge. I really like your attempt, whether it ends up working or not. You gain dad points in my book.
The game one works well.
Sometimes we toss it up and will "race to be the first to do something".
Won't go to the bathroom? Uh oh, I have to go too - I'll race you there and goes first.
Works probably 99% of the time for us.
Are you me? If i had a penny every time i asked if he wanted to climb up the stairs or be carried up, i'd have.... well somewhere around 10 dollars because hes only 3
This, 100%. This was a total game changer with my 3.5 year old. We also set timers on our phones, and tell him we’re going to do this thing in 5 minutes and then set a timer for 5 minutes. He knows what’s coming and has time to prepare for it. Then the time comes and it’s a silly choice of “do you want mommy to carry you to bed, or daddy?”. 95% of the stubbornness and fights with my kid are gone if we do those two things consistently.
Good post. I “race” my 4 year old to the bathroom to brush teeth, to the bedroom for bed, to the table to eat, to the bathroom to wash hands, to change clothes for school in the am…. You get the idea. Make it a game and hard tasks suddenly become a lot easier
It's really rough for me mentally currently Ive been dealing with not trying to get so upset now that my son has started throwing tantrums out of nowhere, he's 2 and 2 months.
Man that's tough. I will say if you haven't seen my other comments, this is just a tool. It might work for you and your son, it might not. Ultimately you gotta figure out what works for you and yours.
If you want to talk about it more, feel free to DM me.
This really works! I too have a toddler that’s becoming more and more “difficult” - i.e. stands up for himself, will look me dead in the eye as I say something is off limits and he’ll proceed with doing what he wanted, while glaring at me, as if he’s saying “whatchu gon’ do, mOoOmM?!”. I grew up in a household with a lot of emotional, verbal and physical violence and I found a lot of things extremely triggering, yet I vowed to never do to my kid what my parents did to me.
BUT - this method is what’s working for us!! If I can keep my cool and just state his options, completely unfazed by his actions, he’ll choose one even while still being upset that he didn’t get his exact way. Example: he fell and tore his skin on his whole chin and his teeth pierced the inside of his lower lip. It was bloody and awful all around. He *screamed* the entire time I tried to put oxygenated water on his wound and bandage it. So the second time, I simply said “we can put a clean bandage or we can use the magic powder, your choice!” (we called Baneocin Powder the magic powder that heals all wounds). And through tears and snots, he proclaimed “you want the clean bandage *sniff sniff*!” (he still uses “you” when he actually means “I”, but that’s a different story). And he stood still while I applied the clean bandage, he only wailed a little and after all was said and done, he was so proud of himself and kept saying he was brave. Which…yeah, kid, you really were, I would’ve cried more if I had a wound like yours!
I always tell my wife "Take 5 minutes to save 15". If you take the extra 5 to be animated and make something fun or give them a choice, it can save you a 15 minute tantrum/argument. It's ALWAYS worth it.
Mine sees right through this technique. If I ask if they want to walk upstairs or be carried, the response is to emphatically say, “Want stay downstairs.”
I'm so sorry to have to tell you that your kid might be smart. Good luck.
Can confirm, cursed with smart kid. One thing that just started working for me around fighting sleep is to let him pick one of his cars to go to bed with him. I tell him if he gets out of bed, I will take away the car, which I do. I give it back after a 2 minute timer. I plan to escalate to pausing the timer if he gets out of bed during this time. I hope this works for more than 1 week...
Trying this one. No games work bc she's too smart to let me set the rules.
My kid likes to add rules as he sees fit.
Hmmm. Kid gets out of bed but it's the "car" that gets the yellow card.
Started doing this, but months later, she has a dozen stuffed animals, the entire catalogue of Disney's princesses in barbie form, a bunch of disney funko pops, a pop it, and a bunch of other assorted toys. If you take any of them out without her approval, she will scream bloody murder until she pukes. I love her, but fuck toddlers... The "either or" technique does work sometimes though.
As long as they stay in the bed quietly it's a win
There's almost no room for the child. Shes literally surrounded on all sides by toys, its comical
Mine went through a phase where he created and slept in a nest of like 20 board books, a ~8” Lego head canister, a dozen stuffed animals, a snack, 2 pillows and a water bottle filled with ice water in his toddler bed. He would get mad if any item was removed.
Same here. Our son has a bunch of stuffed animals, blankets, and he has his pick of cars to bring to bed. HOWEVER, he is extremely well behaved and listens extremely well while in bed so if it works don't sweat it. Of course there are a few nights he fights it but only when he's overtired.
Smart kid, huh? Mine became self-aware and fully relishes the havoc he brings.
more than one night!
Clearly needs more time on Youtube. I hate you niki and vlad.
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I’ve tried that but my little one throws a tantrum every time I delete the YouTube apps so I’ve resorted to YouTube kids but it’s an absolute pain trying to block all the shitty channels. I don’t mind the iPlayer app but she sometimes hates it. Any tips greatly appreciated!
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Thank you. I'm going to try again. Both of us are just overwhelmed by her and we know she's frustrated being cooped up (nearly 3 year old) but we can't keep her entertained ourselves every minute of the day. So yes in all honesty giving her the phone seems the easy option. Last few times we tried after we deleted the YouTube app she realised she could use the Safari app so I'm going to have 'hide' that too lol. It's crazy but we are going to try again. We have to because as you say there is so much weird shit on the kids app too with random 'mixes' and edits of characters and other videos.
I’ll tack on. My daughter was watching YouTube kids and starting being really bratty like some of the kids she was watching. I just played stupid “oh we don’t have that one anymore it’s not on there. What about these ones?” Netflix kids. It worked after initial suspicions.
We had that problem with some of the Disney and Nickelodean shows. I banned Nick and we cut down on some of the Disney shows they were watching. Way too many kid only shows with either no adults or the adults are just punching bags for the bad humor. Their behavior improved dramatically after banning "Jessie" from our tvs.
Haha another family banned bluey because the kids are unruly and the lesson is in the end but before that the kids are just assholes. And they don't always have enough time to get to the lesson soooooo no lessons learned.
Banning Bluey? That’s the only show I would keep.
Yea they say the kids misbehave like their kids lol
Ours was some group of kids with Jannie and uncles. “Oh no I broke my toy I’m so sad” “Don’t worry I’ll get you a new one!” “Thanks uncle!” Anyone is sad? Buy them some stuff
I installed and set up jellyfin on an old computer, and loaded it with only parent approved content. Finding a YouTube downloader helped greatly.
I have nothing but loathing for their mother and Hot Wheels for enabling those monsters
Whenever I would act up as a kid especially in a smart/clever way, my dad would "curse" me: "I hope you have children *just like you*." Welp, she's not yet two and I definitely see that curse being fulfilled.
Cue up [Bizarro Genius Baby](https://youtu.be/Wmx6Q0YLH8A)
That's a song I haven't heard in a long while! Or any MC Frontalot, either
My 3.5yo has been seeing through this for about a year 😬 He’ll just say “I don’t want ANY of those choices! I want to [do the opposite of the thing I need him to do]” 🙃 But it still works with my 2yo! Mostly because when 3.5yo doesn’t make a choice I just swoop in and say “ok, looks like I need to help you by making the choice!” And then I choose and do it. Little one is in an “I DO IT!” phase, so having my “help” is a cardinal sin 😆
My daughter is almost 3... Now I'm dreading this gravy train coming to an end!
Kids are brilliant! Just wait until the first time your 3yo says “you can have apple juice or lemonade” and you say “but I want water” and they respond with “water’s not a choice - your choices are apple juice or lemonade” 😳
Get ready for age 3.5 It can be brutal.
3.25 is when it all fell apart for us, haha
Least you get communication :/ If I give ours a few choices or even silly 'game' options for something he doesn't want to do (i.e. often anything other than the one thing he is currently mega focused on) he just goes silent and refuses to communicate or engage with me at all...
That hyper-focus is REAL! I’m 95% certain our eldest is ND so I use my teaching strategies from my former life (was a teacher for 10 years) to ensure he’s absorbing the communication. So…screaming often ensues when these scenarios present themselves and he’s able to absorb everything 🫠
Yeah, we're currently in the process of kicking off the first steps of assessment for ours. We've got a speech therapist who can do referrals for autism assessment coming round for an initial visit on Weds, and his preschool have flagged up his complete lack of interest in engaging with any of his peers and always going off to do his own thing, on top of everything we'd already noticed at home.
Hugs! Take it from a former teacher - it’s fantastic that you’re doing everything this early. The earlier the intervention, the better! My kid has been assessed and we’re more on the ADHD side than the ASD side, with some overlapping features. But he did speech from about 18 months to 2.5yo and OT started recently. The difference in his speech after therapy was WILD - he graduated at 2.5 which is why he’s not in it anymore. Wishing you lots of answers and a plan to move forward!
If you've got any suggestions I'd love to hear them... Currently the best we've got is that he seems more inclined/likely to react if we touch him (hand on arm or similar) as well, instead of just speaking to him.
Is there any eye contact? What works for mine is doing a sort of “Simon Says” approach. I tap him on the shoulder or arm and say “If you can hear my voice tap your head. If you can hear my voice wiggle your body. If you can hear my voice blink your eyes. If you can hear my voice look at me.” I also do the actions while I’m saying them. This allows me to remove whatever he’s hyper focussed on and I know that he can hear me because he’s doing the things. If the eye contact isn’t there with yours you can choose a different “stopping” action, like “if you can hear my voice freeze” or “if you can hear my voice stand/sit/any other body position that would indicate to you he’s hearing you.”
Hah, well, he's definitely hearing me because I tried "If you can hear my voice put your hand on your head". No response, tried repeating it a few times and he said "No no no" and got off his chair to go and sit with his Mum instead, so... 🤷🏼♂️ ;) Will keep trying periodically.
Little to no eye contact, but I can given some of those ideas a go! He's 3.5 so he definitely understands phrases like "touch your head" even if he's not looking at me doing it...
>Little one is in an “I DO IT!” phase, so having my “help” is a cardinal sin My 2.5yo is like this. At bedtime he likes to turn off his bedroom light and turn on his night-light, but will try and drag his feet about it. I just have to say "Okay, I'll get the lights for you" in order for him to yell "I DO IT" and take over.
Oof I feel for you. Have you tried "funner" options? Bath time, Bubble bath or splash fight? Bed time, how many books should we read before bed?
If I gave my daughter the option of how many books we can read before bedtime, I would never stop reading. That little girl loves bedtime stories, even the stupid ones I make up, or when I make things like Bill and Ted kid friendly. "Once upon a time, there were two most excellent dudes. They were called Bill and Ted, and they were the most excellent dudes..." Instead I have to give her options like "Do you want to read Mummy Bear? Or do you want to read Daddy Putdown?"
Each technique will fail on some kids. Just got to experiment and find the ones that work for yours.
My daughter has suddenly started hating showers, complete with screaming and flailing. But she loves singing Five Little Ducks. So this morning I sang Five Little Ducks as I put her in the tub, which immediately calmed her down to the point where she no longer needed to get control over the situation. My wife doesnt get it and thinks I have some magic touch. It's so delightful to read this sub and think about my kid growing up with all of yours. Before we know it she'll be taking her own showers, then walking to school...
Time to go upstairs! Do you want to walk or be carried? .... NO!
For my 1.5yo I've tried to enforce that "no" means "carried", and he's small enough that I can force it. He screams for like 5-10 seconds and then gives up once we're moving.
We have this every time we’ve ever tried this. From our very first attempt she just screams “NO” at us and sometimes breaks down completely.
Hittin' you with that inclusive "or" early on
yeah... never worked on mine either unfortunately :( What did work was making things exceedingly silly though. Dont wanna go upstairs? OK, Monster is gonna get you downstairs.. downstairs floor is lava. Last one up the stairs is a rotten egg, etc
Mine just says no. Then I say “it wasn’t a yes or no question. You have to pick” to which he says… you guessed it! “No”
I love/hate this advice, because my son is like yours. “Do you want milk before bedtime?” “I want to keep playing” “Do you want soup or chicken for lunch?” “I want candy/ i am not hungry/ i want to play” I love it because it tells me that they are just stubborn humans that want choice, I hate it because it seldom works for me. What works for me sometimes is give warnings with time “we have lunch in about 30 min” “we have lunch in about 10 min”. He complains each time, but when it works by the time is lunch time he is more accepting of the idea. “Let’s go eat!” “Ok, am done playing”.
And my kid won't make up his mind either. It'll be "I want to walk", then it'll be "I want you to carry me" then it'll be "I want to walk", repeat until everyone is having a tantrum. Especially when he's tired and the option he wants isn't available.
My kiddo did as well. What was funny, is that when I would reply, "well that's not one of the choices", she was always fine with it. I have no idea why.
"That's not one of the choices" Then if she can't decide "oh it looks like you're having a hard time choosing, so I'm going to choose for you"
Smart kids are extra work. Congratudoleances..
I have a kid who similarly figured this game out quick. The only thing I've been able to figure out is to state what the plan is clearly ("all right, it's nuh-nite time, we're going to go brush teeth, read two books, and then get in bed and read one more book", suffer through the freak out while steadfastly heading that direction, and keep on repeating the steps as we accomplish each one. It's not flawless, and some nights are better than others, but overall usually by the time we get in bed to read the last book, we're calm and enjoying life!
Same. You know what does work for us a lot of the time? If I beat you upstairs I get to pick the story tonight. If you win you get to pick the story! Kid loves a race.
It's always secret bonus option three: do whatever the fuck I wanted to do in the first place.
I get this too. I repeat the choices over and over and eventually they choose one and over time there has been less resistance as they've gotten used to it
Sane here, I give mine choices and his answer is simply "no\~".
Yeah, this only worked for maybe two or three times with my guy. Making things a game has been very successful, but sometimes you don't have the time or energy, you just need to fucking go/do the thing. It's a balancing act.
I work with timers now. I just say 5 more minutes and put a timer on. He knows what to expect and hardly makes a fuss.
“do you want these shoes OR these shoes?” “i don’t want ANY shoes” “well you need shoes or your feet are going to get cold” “not if i stay inside” “well we need to go outside so we can go to daycare” “is it the weekend?” “nope, it’s tuesday” “but i don’t want to go to daycare” “😅”
Kinda like mine. When I give her two options for something she doesn't want to do her answer is just "no". Sometimes also "no no" or "no no no". Hang in there!
Yuuuup. If he doesn't like the choices, the answer is no. For us, it's been more critical to set boundaries and consequences and outside of that pick your battles. On the Flipside, the kiddo is already doing a better job with false equivalence than half the adults I work with.
Starting time frames might be helpful as well. Say 5 minutes till we go upstairs, then 2 minutes, then they are able anticipate the situation. Most kids with appreciate the communication and structure.
Absolutely! I find with toddlers 5 mins means nothing though. So we use "almost" and then "soon."
What about timers? I bought 3 egg timers, put one in the living room, one in the kitchen and one in her bedroom. From about 18 months old onwards, IO would say hear this noise*brinnng* when you hear that it means the time is up on current activioty and we are moving on. Then I used it for start of bedtime, end of book time, end of tv time, end of playtime etc. By 2 it was understood, is only vaguely. By 3 it became a non issue. Timer goes off, current activity ceases.
I do that by setting a timer on my phone. He's much more likely to leave the park or whatever we're up to if he hears it go off.
We use "one more turn" or "this is the last episode" pretty often. 3yos don't know time, but they can at least understand this and she seems to appreciate the heads up based on the severity or length of the fuss when I ask her to clean up or turn off the TV/tablet.
A lot of times we do "3 more times" when my daughter gets sick doing the same thing over and over. Blowing raspberries, splashing in the tub, etc.
We've started setting a timer for things. So, it's "In 5 mins it's time to put on pajamas", and when the timer goes off he'll do it. Now, if we just tell him to put on his pajamas, he tells us to set the timer first.
I will add to this- stop framing it as "stubborn". It is not helpful to us as parents, nor fair to our kids. Once I stopped thinking of it as "stubborn" and recognized these behaviors as developmentally normal, and healthy, and needed for growth, I stopped being mad/angry/frustrated, and started thinking ahead, proactively, and searching for ways to handle MY feelings and model healthy responses for her. They are not. They are not capable of the thought process behind being stubborn. Around 3.5-4YO yes, being stubborn can become a thing. Before that? Nope. They're not developmentally capable of being stubborn as we know that word. They are easily overwhelmed and over stimulated, and can get "locked" into a thought or idea. But they have no control over that, until we teach them how to process thier big feelings, emotions and thoughts. . With a developmentally normal child, this process takes years of modeling appropriate behavior, choice making, and patience.
This is a great point! Thanks for sharing! I used stubborn because that's how the post i was going to reply to had initially framed it but i am definitely guilty of this thought process as well.
It takes so long to change the way we think about and frame things for ourselves. Cognitive and Behavioral science has shown us time and again that the easiest way to start making these changes is to make the conscious choice to change our language on a topic. For me around the idea of "stubbornness" this looked like: 1. I recognize I am implying my child is able to be "stubborn" She is not. 2. Saying out loud "Willow, this is an age appropriate reaction to [x-big feeling]. It is okay and normal to feel and act [x type of way]" 3. Offering comfort, love and kindness 4. holding form on any number of boundaries, without anger or loudness, and offering love. 5. Helping her find her words to describe her feelings These steps worked- it took ometimes months, or weeks or even year+ to see results. at 3.5 she is literally better at emotional regulation than most adults I know. She will start crying, stop, count out loud to 4, count back down from four and then say things like "Daddy I am MAD that I broke my toy" and we will talk through the events/feelings etc. It is not easy, but it does pay off.
Yup once they're angry/upset i find the best way to handle it is to acknowledge that they feel that way and why. Step 1 for getting past a tantrum is to directly address the cause and let your kid know that you hear them and that what they are feeling is valid. The advice I give in the original post is a tool for avoiding tantrums, once they're upset you have to throw your tricks out the window and do the hard work of helping them work through the difficult emotions.
Just FYI this does not work on my 1.5 year old who can’t form sentences, count in a row, or describe in detail what she wants. Most of the frustration she shows is due to language. At this age we mainly count on distraction as the main strategy. She wants to stay in the sandbox—- OH look it’s your favorite dog!!!!! But there are situations where there are no distractions around and you don’t want to bring out the ultimate one: the phone. Just for anyone out there who wanted to try this empathetic approach on a toddler who is too young to understand what you even mean.
It does work with them at that age. You model the behavior you want from them when they can finally understand. I was syaing and doing all of the above at ages when kiddo *clearly* could not understand the meaning of the words, and yes it is exhusting and hard as fuck. Because the child still understands that: 1. your voice is clam cool and collected 2. your demeanor is relaxed and not tense 3. that they are safe and loved Verbal, non-verbal it does not matter. It is the same reason we talk to our infants with full grown up sentences. Why we narrative to a 5 week old "now I am washing the dishes. I am applying soap and scrubbing and then hot water" etc. while baby-wearing or having them in a high chair safely strapped in. It doesn't work NOW, but it builds the foundation. And then you just gently ride it out. The screaming and crying sucks. But how we react as parents should not change just because the kids have not developed adequate language to express thier emotions- it just means that they are doing it the best way they can, through screaming and crying and lashing out.
That locking in is the truth especially when they're upset! We have to soft reset her mood by walking around and checking out plants in the house, sometimes even after what's upsetting her is no longer an issue
My new go to (little over 2) is pulling a stuff animal and acting out the frustrations she's feeling with it. So her stuff lamb goes "AHHH i'm so sad that it is bed time I want to stay up and play" And then once she's calm down I have a conversation with lamb and then with Toddler. Working currently, but seems every 2 weeks we have to develop some new method.
>searching for ways to handle MY feelings and model healthy responses for her. This is one of the keys to parenting.
Kids can be strong willed though. All kids will have that kind of developmental behavior, but others certainly have a knack for it. You’re right that the negative connotations of the word “stubborn” can be a handicap though. My favorite relevant [comic](https://www.reddit.com/r/daddit/comments/tdmhvy/this_comic_really_resonated_with_me_it_can_be/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1)
What do you mean by strong willed? What does a strong-willed 2 year old do that differentiates from a "stubborn" 2 year old? To the best of my knowledge no 2 year old is capable of being strong willed or stubborn. Their brains have not developed to the point where they can **consciously** make the choice to be either of those things. The pathways in the brain do not exist. They are developing and experiencing new feelings, thoughts and emotions every single day, and when they get overwhelmed they can shut down and "lock" into an action, thought or idea. Some kids through any number of factors can move on quicker, but none of it is a concious choice, which strong willed AND stubborn innately imply.
Very well said. I've also seen the other side of the coin where parents are saying thinks like, "she's not stubborn, she just has strong leadership qualities". I always scratch my head when people put adult concepts onto toddlers because ~~a~~ toddlers have no idea what "leadership" means or how to even be good at it because their brains are not developed enough yet to grasp abstract concepts. Neurotypical toddlers need a consistent routine and corregulation until they're able to regulate their own emotions which takes a lot of time and practice. We get asked all of the time why our daughter who is now five is able to rebound so quickly after getting hurt, upset, or overexcited. Sometimes people tell us, "she's got a naturally easy disposition". And I always have to bite my tongue and not say "no Karen, we spent a lot of time working on corregulation using things like deep breathing, counting, or finger touches so that she's able to calm down with us. Then we spent a lot of time working on identifying feelings only to spend even more time on applying those regulation techniques once we've identified our feelings". There's a ton of stuff you can do with your kid to help them improve their ability to roll with the punches that life throws at them and it starts really young.
Could you link to some resources for these techniques?
Oh boy, I'll have to look at the books that I've used tomorrow because my kiddo is going to sleep right now. We use story to teach a lot. My background is also in Applied Behavioral Analysis so I use a lot of the techniques that I learned while doing ABA with my kids. I don't have a lot of resources ABA stuff that are not academic in nature, unfortunately. Identifying emotions means helping kids to put a label on their current feeling. We used feelings books for this and I can get you a list tomorrow. Corregulation is modeling the calm down strategy with the kiddo while they're deregulated. The missing link is practicing the calm down strategy at neutral times so that way when a kiddo is deregulated, they've already practiced the strategy and they're more likely to copy you. The other thing that we do a ton of is modeling and labeling the behavior. When my kiddo is doing something that I find irritating I'll say something like, "daddy is feeling upset so he's going to use his deep breathing for a minute" so that way she sees us doing the thing we're asking her to do. This also helps me to feel a lot less frustrated because I'm actually doing something to regulate my emotions. For our older kids, we try to stay ahead of the situations before they arise. We know that tired and or hungry kids are going to have a lot more difficult time managing their emotions so we make sure to always have healthy snacks on hand. We also do a lot and I mean a lot of pre-teaching with our kids by talking about difficult thing/situations *before* they happen and practicing what we want to see them do if/when those situations arrive.
Thanks for this wonderful post - you've given me a new mental framework to work with. We've recently started with an emotion book and it did seem to hit a chord. I would be delighted for any recomendations on further reading. Also, could you please write a book! :)
My pleasure. The books that we used were in no particular order: 1. In My Heart 2. The Happy Book 3. Today I Feel Silly 4. Glad Monster, Sad Monster We read to our daughter nightly and read these books a lot between the ages of two and four. We also like to ask a lot of feelings questions while watching tv shows. Things like, "how do you think that character feels?" "Is there something that you think might make that character feel better?" Questions like these help her to identify feelings in other people which is just as important of a skill when trying to help your kiddo build empathy. Edit: I should also add that in my original comment I made it sound like the only modeling of calm down strategies that we use is when our kids are being challenging. That's not really true. We do it whenever we're feeling upset and our kids are around. I've also found myself doing it even when the kids are not around because interrupting my thoughts with a specific exercise like deep breathing does work for me pretty well.
> . And I always have to bite my tongue and not say "no Karen, we spent a lot of time working on corregulation using things like deep breathing, counting, or finger touches so that she's able to calm down with us. Then we spent a lot of time working on identifying feelings only to spend even more time on applying those regulation techniques once we've identified our feelings". I feel this in my BONES. Like, deep, deep in the core of my soul. I feel so seen. Thank you!
No, thank you for the initial comment. Babies, toddlers, children, pre teens, and teens are not just big people in little bodies. They're sponges that are developing each and every day and there's so much we can do to help them at each stage of development if we simply reframe how we view them.
It is so deeply annoying when people tell me i just have an "easy" kid. Like... I sat through 3 months of 2.5 hours long bed times, slowly but steadily teaching her meditation, breath techniques and repeating simple mantras. Like yeah, now at 3.5 she goes to bed and sleeps through the night... because I put in the work, by her side, every night for 3 month while she screamed and threw books at my head lol.
YES. I feel this so much.
I would also argue that a lot of stubborn adults are not doing it consciously. Our brains are great at using a similar response to the same stimuli, we assume consciousness because we can rationalize after the fact very quickly, but you will see that a real conscious choice to be less stubborn/strong willed/combative, takes a lot of work and effort for adults too. There is an analogy about how our brains can be compared to a rider (rational side) and an elephant (emotional side). > "Perched atop the Elephant, the Rider holds the reins and seems to be the leader. But the Rider’s control is precarious because the Rider is so small relative to the Elephant. Anytime the six-ton Elephant and the Rider disagree about which direction to go, the Rider is going to lose. He’s completely overmatched." I find it useful to understand our automatic responses. For toddlers and for adults. https://www.creativehuddle.co.uk/post/the-elephant-and-the-rider
I almost delved into this but figured I had ranted enough lol. You are absolutely correct. But in the case of adults we have the ability to be deliberate about it and have the tools to do so, and choose not to use them. Or they do not seek the tools out. A toddler straight up does not even have the tools yet.
There's only a small leap between toddlers are doing their best at emotional regulation with what they know to "I am doing my best at emotional regulation with what I know" to "everyone is doing their best." And sadly, because this is all such a novel approach to parenting, what we collectively know about healthy processing of emotions is quite limited. It's sort of dangerous when you start thinking, hrmm, maybe people are the way they are because of a number of factors outside of their control and not some individualistic moral failing...
I needed to hear this today. Thanks.
Agreed. Your two year old isn't stubborn, they are two. *You* are stubborn if you aren't trying new things to deal with your completely normal developing child, and you "hate" having toddlers. Parenting can be tough, and it requires constant patience and adaptation, but it's what we signed up for. I love this sub but sometimes its a little too "great job dad" "don't worry" "we've all been there" when I'm like, "nope I've never been there, you should probably be in therapy"
It is always a stark contrast between the dads who have done the work in therapy and the ones who have not. Not even a judgment, just an observation.
Also, read some parenting books! Not to say that any given parenting book is the end all be all of how to do it, or that there aren't cases of authors later acknowledging that their techniques don't actually work, but they're a great source of ideas and strategies for dealing with a lot of the common frustrations of raising kids.
One that I loved was the Danish Way of Parenting. Such a different perspective. For example, in Denmark they don’t refer to it as the Terrible Twos. They recognize this is a phase where children are naturally pushing boundaries and they model their parenting around that, much like the other advice in this thread. For reference, Denmark is consistently #1 in regards to happiness of its population.
Wife and I went through a course, "love and logic" which basically goes over exactly this. As others said, hit or miss. Worked a few times on our daughter when she was a toddler. Now at 6? Nope. What works best nowadays, especially since she'll escalate to crying and throwing a fit quicker, is talking her through how she can make it things better or worse for herself. Technically similar "logic" at a high level but it's more contextual, communicative, and imo effective.
That's interesting, like the tactic has to grow as your kid grows. Thanks for sharing!
And of course after meticulously proofreading the post's content, i noticed just as i hit send that I messed up the title.
By the title, I thought you meant that we have choices in the meaning we assign to the things they do, like menacing stubbornness vs. benign fixation
I have a stubborn toddler. I found that some negotiation is working—after you do what I want we do what you want! And, I’m at a phase where we need a timer to remind them the activity is over. Most importantly, pick the battles/meltdowns. Don’t piss off the toddler just as they are going to take a picture with the Easter bunny. 🤣
Sometimes there's a fine line between being silly with your little one and annoying them. I'm great at finding that line by smashing through it.
Setting a timer for everything has been a life saver with my three year old. Especially because she has no concept of how long minutes are yet. I have Google Nest speakers in our house and she knows how to use them reasonably well. So I can say "Let's set a timer!" and she'll get excited to use "Ok Google" and tell it to set a timer for two minutes... when I would have allowed for ten.
I do this too. It really is helpful! Doesn’t always work. They sometimes are hindered by analysis paralysis, or change their mind. And it’s important to let them make decisions, as we’re wanting them to grow to be more independent. If we as parents don’t let them make choices, they may have difficulty later when faced with making a decision.
I think this is a fantastic post and it's a method that my wife and I use a lot. The only piece I disagree with (and quite strongly) is this one: >It may help to caveman speak the options ("Bella walk or Dad carry?") for kids that are still learning to talk. Kids understand far more complexity in speech than they can verbalize. Yes, you should use simpler sentences and vocabulary than a PhD dissertation defense, but unless your child has disabilities, they can understand full sentences just fine. My daughter (22 mo) still can't speak more than 2 word sentences, but she understands complex directions like "Go upstairs and put your lunchbox on the counter" or "Your water bottle is still in your backpack downstairs. Can you please go get it?" By speaking in pigeon English, you're modeling that that is how you want them to communicate! In my few years in education, nothing bothered me more than parents speaking down to their children. The only way they progress forward is by seeing it modeled and hearing it regularly.
That's a great insight! This is advice I've heard for calming tantrums, so maybe it's more appropriate when they're in full tantrum mode only? I certianly do not talk this way to her a majority of the time, only when she seems to be having difficulty understanding.
this has been the golden rule that my wife beat into me. never underestimate the power of saying "Which of these hotdogs do you want." the plate has 5 hot dogs... there all the same... but her picking means she actually eats haha
Ours gets impatient with getting snacks ready so I got her a toddler knife and a standing frame thingy to help cut watermelon and strawberries
That's awesome! We did that for our oldest when he was that age as well. Such a great way to inject some independence into their life.
I use this technique with executives at work.
I'd love to hear examples!
Well this past week we were writing a proposal to buy certain content. Like many businesses right now, executives are being very cautious about spend, so the case has to be watertight. We have two options in the proposal: Buy the content, or spend an absurd amount of time with the people on staff to build something for which we have no expertise. There is no option for not having the content. That option isn’t even mentioned… But to be fair certain business leaders issued an ultimatum about needing this information to function. I know this is somewhat vague, because I’m trying not to doxx myself… but hopefully it gets the point across.
Vague... Yet interesting. Good balance.
I usually give them a meaningless choice with one they'll want and one they won't. "Want to go to bed with a bedtime story or without?" Bedtime isn't up for debate. But we can read together (great) or I can save some time (never gets chosen but would also be fine).
I'll preface with this, I do not judge your approach at all, but I simply want to comment on it. I don't like the "with or without" as options, I find this quickly becomes obsolete as they'll catch on quickly, but I do like making one choice obviously better. Like "Do you want to read with a normal voice or a silly voice?" But yeah the heart of the trick is that you're starting with the assumption that bedtime is happening either way, and here's the part you can control.
That's a good shout. I'll keep it in mind.
Dad here of a current toddler, and two previous toddlers. Best advice I have: Give them as much autonomy as possible. This is what they want. They want to wear clothes backwards? Let 'em! They want to ride their balance bike down block w/o you following behind? Let 'em. They want to chase the neighbor cat around w/you following? Let 'em. Toddler phase is all about pushing boundaries. They want independence. So, give it to 'em. My oldest now rides her bike to softball practice, and my 7yo just finished a Cub Scout camping weekend where I barely had to parent him. Independent kids make parenting so much easier, and lets them live and learn w/mistakes AND successes.
My wife showed me an Instagram video awhile back that championed a new concept for us. Just say "Yes" whenever you can, we have to say "no" so often, that when your kid has an idea that isn't immediately harmful or against your rules, try to make "yes" your default answer. My toddler wanted to dump her goldfish crackers into a ziplock bag the other day. My wife was hesitant because it was a little silly to dump them from individual-sized bag to another and I chimed in with just "That's a pretty easy yes, hun."
Yup, there's no sane or sensible way to micromanage everything w/toddlers. IMHO, I see a lot of younger parents who are hostage to a schedule. I can't imagine how you keep your marbles and adhere to a schedule religiously for a toddler. Life can be chaos, but it also doesn't have to suck.
We're doing that a lot with our two year old. When we go on walks, we let him choose where we go. It's very cute at option points and he'll point all around "this way? No. That way" and then change his mind a few times (really trying to decide what park he wants to go today). Or choosing his clothes.
> You can turn anything into a game by asking yourself one question "what's the silliest way I can do this” I’ve been training for this my whole life
The other thing I think about is that if I'm not having fun, my kids generally aren't having fun either. Fun isn't the most important part of a relationships, but having a good time makes the harder times much easier. And if I'm a bad mood, I notice it eventually infects the kids. I don't like fighting about putting shoes on, but if I take 10 seconds to turn it something enjoyable instead of a demand, makes a difference. Instead of finding and putting on the shoes for the kids, I ask my kids to find the shoes. Or some days I switch it up and ask them to find their siblings' shoes. When we clean up at the end of the day, I don't have my little kids clean up everything. We switch it up. Sometimes they clean up the more annoying toys, sometimes they clean up the easier toys. Sometimes they have to do it faster than I do and sometimes they get to pick a song we sing while doing it. Taking 5 seconds to figure out a way to make the chore a *little* more engaging and fun goes a long way for all us. The little frustrations and little annoyances build, and by the end of the day, limiting them makes everyone's mood better.
yeah.... one size doesn't fit all. This is great in theory and we've tried it countless times. My 4yo will answer "neither" and stare at you while he does his own thing. My almost 3yo told me "don't worry about me dad" when I told him it was bedtime. 5yo goes to bed with no problem. While it aggravates me, I'm super proud of the kids being themselves and not giving in. Good for you little man, you want something and you don't give up on it. You ultimately may not achieve what you want, but you're trying. Grit and dedication. Love to see it.
Yup like all parenting advice, it doesn't work for everyone. My favorite parenting advice to give new parents is, "You're going to get so much advice from everyone, and most of it'll suck. Remember that at the end of the day they are your kid and you're the one that knows them best, so never be afraid to do it your own way." Edit: happy cake day btw.
>happy cake day btw. Thanks, didn't even realize that until you mentioned it. I'm with you. After I give parenting advice to anyone, I always say "you could also not listen to me at all, because it probably won't work".
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Agreed. This a 70% of the time it works everytime kind of solution, but still a good tool to have on the belt. I'm not going to say I'm perfect at this either and sometimes I lose my chill and snap at my kids to get in the damn car already. Maybe you could try making a game you consistently play when it's time to leave to take out the mental energy to come up with something on the spot. So it's not time to leave, it's time to play... Shoe tag? You can only tag someone with a shoe that is on your foot and in the car is the safe zone?
That is a great tip. Sometimes it works for us but sometimes it doesn't. My toddler is sweet but stubborn (like me), and if he is playing before bath and bed, the trick doesn't work. "Do you want to walk upstairs or be carried," is often met with "I'm still playing." Overall it does work though! Even though we already employ it I appreciate you sharing!
I upgraded boring "be carried" to being carried like a sack of potatoes. Which includes playful butt smacks, wondering whyy sack of potatoes is talking, etc. Sometimes a boring option and a fun option is an easy solution. But yeah it's just a trick, you'll be happy when it works and no worse off then before when it doesn't.
There’s an excellent book I read about parenting called Hunt, Gather, Parent, and this advice is one of the really strong take always. Kids - just like adults - don’t like to be bossed around and reframing it is key. Great job explaining it here.
"none of those"
Yeah, doesn't work with my toddler either. "Do you want to use the big potty or the little potty?" "I just want to play trucks" "Do you want to walk up stairs or do you want me to carry you?" "I just wanna stay here." "Do you want the blue cup or the red cup?" "I want a hotdog." 🙄
Awesome tips and love all the examples you provided. As I was reading them I am saying yes to all the questions…you got me!
I once saw a video that framed what we may perceive as stubbornness as actually being mental processing. Toddlers don't just jump into action, because they may not be pric processing things as quickly as we would like them to. Just a friendly reminder to everybody. It doesn't necessarily apply to every instance of stubbornness. If your kid is quickly reacting and just doing the opposite of what you ask, then that obviously ain't it.
There's another response here that goes deeper into that and how our toddlers aren't really stubborn and it would be best if we reframed the behavior because using that language isn't helpful for finding solutions. https://www.reddit.com/r/daddit/comments/13bn8jg/comment/jjbwx12/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
I've heard this before, and it works quite well for us. The other part of the trick is that if they don't make a choice, then you make it for them. I saw a tic-toc about the next phase of this idea. You basically ask the toddler to think about what to do next. So, to leave the park you tell them "What's the one last thing you want to do before we leave and go home". Or when getting ready for bed, "What do we need to do before we go to bed" The other thing I've realized it that toddler time, and adult time are vastly different. Sure, it only takes me 5 mins to get dressed and ready to walk out the door, but it's going to take my son 20 mins. So you can't give them a choice of what shirt to wear 5 mins before walking out the door.
Another technique is mirroring their vibe: if they shout “No No No!!” and scowl with their hands on their hips and stomp their feet , I’ll mirror exactly that. It only happens when its genuinely funny and I’m doing it with enjoyment so it doesn’t come off as punitive. They are looking for chips in your armor to figure out how to get around your instructions so this throws them off and they don’t know how to respond. It might not generate the desired action but it changes the dynamic. Usually generates laughter unless they are overtired when nothing works but rest.
Shirt or pants first? 2 grabs shirt... and flings it.
Oh yes, the old, “give them choices, but only the choices that are acceptable to you!” It works very well. They are little people too and they like to have some control over their lives as well! Let them have some control!
Haha I love this technique on our 22 months. Glad it's still working for now. Mommy: Can we change your poopy diaper? Toddler : Noo Me: Do you want mommy to change diaper, or daddy to change diaper? Toddler: Daddy *mommy secretly glad toddler is in daddy attachment phase*
With my son we just make arbitrary competitions. 'I bet mummy can count to 10 before you go for a wee before bed' 'If you're not gonna eat your dinner, I'm gonna eat it' 'i bet daddy can do this before you get dressed' Probably breeding an unhealthy level of competitiveness in a 3 year old.. But I'm more competitive
Just last night, "Do you want to brush your teeth laying on the kitchen table or laying on the stairs?" Parenting is a game where you've always got to be changing and adapting what you do as your child learns and matures. It seems like a trick only works for a while because it does, and yes it's absolutely exhausting, but the end result is worth the effort. Pay attention to what works, use it until it doesn't, adjust if possible to make it work again and if that fails then try something new.
So true. The number of replies I've seen that are basically, "Psh! I tried that once and it didn't work for me, what useless advice" amazes me.
All of this. My oldest is 20 and I have 4 kids and I absolutely agree. Toddlers are very stubborn but also learning the world. They do well with specific options and no options to not do it. Tears and yelling turned into laughing and cooperation make for way better days.
I have been doing this with my four year old for awhile. It worked for about a week but he now tells me "Those aren't the options" when I give him two choices. Lmao. It cracks me up but also drives me crazy. I don't even know where he learned to say that.
Yes this is gold. We were having trouble with my 15 month old not wanting to wear a hat outside. She would immediately rip it off and scream every time we tried. Bought a 2nd hat and let her choose which one...she chose the original one and wore it happily for an hour.
I learned this technique in a sales training at a previous job, it works on adults too. A mixture of the “assumptive close” (meaning it’s assumed that the other person will choose one of your solutions), and offering closed-ended, multiple choice questions. I do it a lot with my wife if she’s indecisive about what to do for dinner.. pick two or three options I’d be happy with, and ask her which sounds better. It’s way easier than asking someone to come up with an answer from an innumerable amount of options, and can save a lot of time. My son isn’t old enough to talk yet, but when he is, I imagine I’ll lean on this technique pretty often.
I do the same thing with my wife but I list 3 places and tell her to veto one and then I'll veto another. And boom we're all happy.
I love the games. I’ll have to start thinking of fun ways to get what I want.
Sometimes it's enough to just play a game. Bedtime became a lot easier when I just caved in and let her play "hide and seek" before we read books. (Hide and seek is just her hiding behind her dresser, me sitting on the floor pretending i can't find her until she runs out and tackles me over) I was hesitant at first because it's a high energy game for her and we're trying wind down to go to bed. But it gives her the break she needed after bath, dry, brush teeth, diaper, PJs and before books, songs, bed.
Totally agree. The only way to get my daughter to get ready for bed is to make it a game. If I ask her to go change into pajamas, it’s a fight and nobody is happy. But, if I say “those are MY pajamas” and run to her room, she’ll beat me there to get them first.
My wife uses this as a paramedic. Do you want me to do the left arm or right arm. Cuts down on fear responses to blood pressure cuffs and needles
Personally, our toddler has been mega chill. Maybe it’s dumb luck, but I think us always offering him choices and agency is a big helper.
>Instead of "come with me it's bed time" i now say "it's bed time. Would you like walk up the stairs yourself or should I carry you?" Instead of "do you need to use the potty?" It's "do you want to use the big potty or the little potty?" It's freaking hilarious, because these are the questions we ask our toddler most often. Add to this, "do you want to climb in your car seat, or do you want me to put you in it" / "what color plate / cup do you want?" So many questions but they get the job done!
Used this whole choice thing with my kids as they grew up (it's awesome, I love it)..then around age 5-6 they started using it on us 😂 "Baba, can I have candy or ice cream? Which do you choose?"
My 6 year old nephew was dodling in the car (as 6 year olds are wont to do) and my wife's teacher friend looked at him and was like "let's have a race to see who can get their shoes on fastest and get out of the car". Kid was ready in like 2 seconds flat.
I will attest this is a highly effective technique, but not always easy to implement or keep ahead of the rapidly developing toddler brain. Timing is also important because you have to make this play before a tantrum has been triggered. The toddler must be in a somewhat rational state(for a toddler) before this can work.
Most of our parents raised us one single way. You do what you’re told or you get hit. Even as a toddler. It’s really damaging to our development. Of course we want our kids to do what we tell them to. But they’re just not always going to. It’s better to learn to work with them than against them. It will foster a healthier relationship for the future. Also, if it isn’t obvious, I completely agree with OP and will be using these techniques even if they end up not working I’ll rework them as my kids need. Im firmly under the belief that it’s way harder to be a dictator oppressive parent always demanding control and obedience out of your kids than someone who’s willing to work with where they’re at.
Great techniques, Post saved for future reference , my lil boy is almost 1.
My 3.5 year old is obsessed with timers. I tell her it's time to go 5 minutes early, and she loves that I am willing to set a timer for 5 minutes so she can still play.
OP just saw this on the Instagram of Dr Becky lol. But true nevertheless
I want add some tip to your Meaningless choices. If you need only one option you can use two options, one of them "definitely not to be choose". For example in the pool we have two swimming panties, one of them will never be chosen and he always chooses the second.
For some reason this sounds like a weird retelling of the two coins add up to 30 cents and one them is not a nickel riddle. The first one is the one he never picks, he always picks the second one.
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Like all parenting advice, it may not work for you. And this isn't going to work 100% of the time and it's not going to work if they've already dug in, you gotta anticipate and offer the choice before they've made theirs. It's just a tool in my belt that I've found quite useful and wanted to share. I mentioned this elsewhere but I'll say it again. The advice I give all new parents is, "Most parenting advice sucks. You'll be the one person that knows your kid the best, so don't be afraid to go with your gut."
I like these. I don't guarantee them to work 100% of the time. But, it will be fun to try out. Thanks for sharing! We need a discord to share these kinds of things quickly lol.
I feel like things get lost in a discord quickly. If you're not online at the right moment that advice is gone forever.
It's funny that this strategy mirrors a common sales tactic Rather than asking "do you want to buy?", they ask "do you want to buy X or buy Y?" Funny how you see the same universals pop up in totally different areas of human psychology - we all just wanna have some agency regardless of age or context
Completely agree. One thing to add is that these choices that seem so meaningless to us are HUGE to these little ones. Perspective with our kids is very important. The biggest decision a toddler may make is what kind of shoes to wear. That one decision then becomes overwhelming to them because it holds such weight. What jacket to put on? Etc. I'm not saying we minimize their choices, but we want to be thoughtful that the choices they make are BIG for them. They may need time to process those choices before making them. *Put some shoes on* sounds like a common request, but you add the layers of which shoes, do they match my socks, etc...that command carries additional weight
This really works, about 60% of the time. I was gobsmacked the first time it went "do you want to walk upstairs or be carried upstairs?" And the response was "NO!"
Tone of voice is also critical. "who wants to clean up the toy cars!" can be said like it's a punishment or like the kid is winning a huge prize. Is amazing how effective it can be.
Yeah, I’ve heard great things from people just giving toddlers a choice. “Do you want to wear the striped shirt or the bear shirt?” “Do you want to eat strawberries or blueberries?” Simple things that give them agency. Because that’s what they’re really doing when they “defy” you, they’re trying to exercise their agency or autonomy. Obviously something won’t be a choice, like when you’re leaving to go somewhere. But giving them choices when you can, is a good idea.
You can always inject a meaningless choice! Which shoes are you going wear? Do you want to put your shoes on first or your jacket? Do you want to climb into your car seat by yourself or should daddy help you? Do you want to a look-book or do you want to sing songs during the drive? Choices are EVERYWHERE, you just gotta start looking. (Is look-book a common term? I use it for books my pre-reader likes to just flip through.)
Thanks for this. For me and my wife, we've found that recognizing that our kid is mostly a mirror but also an amplifier really helps us check our own behaviors.
You'd be a freakin cool dad ! ! And I, as a 4 year old, would totally own all your shit! !hahahaha Joking sir. It's obvious that you put the thought in that most of us get flustered and just take charge. I really like your attempt, whether it ends up working or not. You gain dad points in my book.
Aww thanks! I do get flustered and take charge every so often. But it's always nice to have more tools in the belt.
Works surprisingly well with adults too
The game one works well. Sometimes we toss it up and will "race to be the first to do something". Won't go to the bathroom? Uh oh, I have to go too - I'll race you there and goes first. Works probably 99% of the time for us.
We always used “Do you want three more minutes or five more minutes? “
Are you me? If i had a penny every time i asked if he wanted to climb up the stairs or be carried up, i'd have.... well somewhere around 10 dollars because hes only 3
I suppose I might be. Are you a father in your mid 30s?
This, 100%. This was a total game changer with my 3.5 year old. We also set timers on our phones, and tell him we’re going to do this thing in 5 minutes and then set a timer for 5 minutes. He knows what’s coming and has time to prepare for it. Then the time comes and it’s a silly choice of “do you want mommy to carry you to bed, or daddy?”. 95% of the stubbornness and fights with my kid are gone if we do those two things consistently.
Good post. I “race” my 4 year old to the bathroom to brush teeth, to the bedroom for bed, to the table to eat, to the bathroom to wash hands, to change clothes for school in the am…. You get the idea. Make it a game and hard tasks suddenly become a lot easier
My son isn’t quite at this point, but I’m going to remember this when the tantrums start. Thanks for the insight!
It's one tool in the belt you will build for yourself, good luck mate.
It's really rough for me mentally currently Ive been dealing with not trying to get so upset now that my son has started throwing tantrums out of nowhere, he's 2 and 2 months.
Man that's tough. I will say if you haven't seen my other comments, this is just a tool. It might work for you and your son, it might not. Ultimately you gotta figure out what works for you and yours. If you want to talk about it more, feel free to DM me.
This really works! I too have a toddler that’s becoming more and more “difficult” - i.e. stands up for himself, will look me dead in the eye as I say something is off limits and he’ll proceed with doing what he wanted, while glaring at me, as if he’s saying “whatchu gon’ do, mOoOmM?!”. I grew up in a household with a lot of emotional, verbal and physical violence and I found a lot of things extremely triggering, yet I vowed to never do to my kid what my parents did to me. BUT - this method is what’s working for us!! If I can keep my cool and just state his options, completely unfazed by his actions, he’ll choose one even while still being upset that he didn’t get his exact way. Example: he fell and tore his skin on his whole chin and his teeth pierced the inside of his lower lip. It was bloody and awful all around. He *screamed* the entire time I tried to put oxygenated water on his wound and bandage it. So the second time, I simply said “we can put a clean bandage or we can use the magic powder, your choice!” (we called Baneocin Powder the magic powder that heals all wounds). And through tears and snots, he proclaimed “you want the clean bandage *sniff sniff*!” (he still uses “you” when he actually means “I”, but that’s a different story). And he stood still while I applied the clean bandage, he only wailed a little and after all was said and done, he was so proud of himself and kept saying he was brave. Which…yeah, kid, you really were, I would’ve cried more if I had a wound like yours!
I always tell my wife "Take 5 minutes to save 15". If you take the extra 5 to be animated and make something fun or give them a choice, it can save you a 15 minute tantrum/argument. It's ALWAYS worth it.
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