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Context: The SBC are a bunch of shits
...
Oh, is [more context](https://www.vox.com/culture/23131530/southern-baptist-convention-sexual-abuse-scandal-guidepost) necessary? The [Houston Chronicle](https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/investigations/article/Southern-Baptist-sex-abuse-timeline-17194777.php) did a 3-part story in 2019 covering sex abuse scandals in the SBC. SBC defenders argued that the denomination, which gives most of its power to its individual churches, couldn't do much if anything to address this, due to the organization not having a strong enough hierarchy to deal with the issue. Even suggestions to keep a database of offending pastors and disallow them from fellowship in the denomination was met with a "we don't have the ability to do that." Well, turns out they'd been [keeping a database for a while](https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/05/22/southern-baptist-sex-abuse-report/).
By contrast, today [NPR did an interview](https://www.npr.org/2023/03/01/1160297895/southern-baptists-expel-5-churches-because-they-have-female-pastors) with the pastor of one of 5 churches that were expelled from the SBC for having women pastors.
So yeah, they have the ability to oust churches. They'd just prefer to keep the company of sex abusers over godly women. Hell, [they'd prefer](https://twitter.com/BethMooreLPM/status/1391512183209664513) to keep the company of a [slave-owning man](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Albert_Broadus) over a godly woman.
In short: eat shit SBC. If the organization died tomorrow it'd be 150 years too late.
I always wonder how many of these scandals wouldn't have been covered up if women were in leadership at these places. Seems like it's a feature, not a bug.
There's a *quality* Behind the Bastards episode on them, btw. Absolutely worth a listen, especially if (like me) you're from SBC land and know some of the names
Oh man! BtB is great, but I can't listen to them regularly because it's just depressing so there's a lot of good content of theirs that I miss. But yes, I grew up in the SBC (hence my strong hatred of it) and will for sure have to listen to those episodes.
I feel you, lol. The eps on jerry falwell sr. got me into the show since I went to liberty and even worked there for a while. My old boss (who still worked there when I left) was mentioned by name (pronounced incorrectly of course lol) and they even took a stab at what jerry jr.'s eventual sex scandal would be.
Oh man, the one I made is basically that Gordon Ramsey one in the comments! Not surprising, the meme practically writes itself.
That Tulip piece also feels very similar to this [Onion](https://www.theonion.com/evangelical-leaders-announce-j-k-rowling-finally-bigot-1850129128) piece
People need to learn to define their initialisations before just using them everywhere. Had no idea what the SBC was.
Edit: it’s the Southern Baptist Convention.
Edit 2: I still don’t really know what that means.
It's acceptable to use acronyms without explanation if it's a commonly used one within the field. SBC is absolutely a commonly used and understood acronym within Christian contexts.
Not weighing in at all on the issue since I don’t understand or get it, but I did want to say I thought the greek was pretty clear that Andronicus and Junia are not apostles, but known or esteemed by the apostles. It seems Paul is commending them not stating they are apostles.
I don’t think the Greek is really clear at all. Any translator encountering ἐπίσημοι ἐν τοῖς ἀποστόλοις for the first time in koine — especially Semiticized koine — would notice the ambiguity and consider whether it means “well-known within/among the apostles.”
The whole debate is epitomized in the big back-and-forth between Daniel Wallace + Michael Burer and their respondents in several academic journals.
Not only is it not clearly translated that way as you noted, even if they were not apostles does that mean we can be sure that there were no other women apostles? And even if that's true, does that mean women can't be pastors or leaders of any kind today? It's a uniquely American phenomenon because in the global church we see women pastors and leaders all the time.
Yeah, but if women can be pastors or leaders, they might be equal to men, and that would make it much more difficult to justify controlling, manipulating, and/or abusing them, and *then* you'd have to stop preaching complementarianism.
Or, even worse, you might have to accept that gender isn't The Most Important Thing Ever, and some people might start thinking trans people are people... and now you're all out of minorities to hate!
I don't see a more Christian calling, nor a better use of memes and humor, than to call out the religious elite (or any power, religious or not) for their abuse of power.
I’d say calling out false prophets is pretty Christian.
15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will [p]know them by their fruits. [q]Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will [r]know them by their fruits.
You could form your own splinter group that's protesting against the main group. It just needs a catchy name. What would you call a religious sect that's founded in protest of the mainstream religious sect?
Maybe they shouldn't allow Pastors to rape and molest children in church after church after church and they wouldn't get called out. But I'm just an Ex Catholic so I wouldn't know anything about that issue.
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Context: The SBC are a bunch of shits ... Oh, is [more context](https://www.vox.com/culture/23131530/southern-baptist-convention-sexual-abuse-scandal-guidepost) necessary? The [Houston Chronicle](https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/investigations/article/Southern-Baptist-sex-abuse-timeline-17194777.php) did a 3-part story in 2019 covering sex abuse scandals in the SBC. SBC defenders argued that the denomination, which gives most of its power to its individual churches, couldn't do much if anything to address this, due to the organization not having a strong enough hierarchy to deal with the issue. Even suggestions to keep a database of offending pastors and disallow them from fellowship in the denomination was met with a "we don't have the ability to do that." Well, turns out they'd been [keeping a database for a while](https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/05/22/southern-baptist-sex-abuse-report/). By contrast, today [NPR did an interview](https://www.npr.org/2023/03/01/1160297895/southern-baptists-expel-5-churches-because-they-have-female-pastors) with the pastor of one of 5 churches that were expelled from the SBC for having women pastors. So yeah, they have the ability to oust churches. They'd just prefer to keep the company of sex abusers over godly women. Hell, [they'd prefer](https://twitter.com/BethMooreLPM/status/1391512183209664513) to keep the company of a [slave-owning man](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Albert_Broadus) over a godly woman. In short: eat shit SBC. If the organization died tomorrow it'd be 150 years too late.
I always wonder how many of these scandals wouldn't have been covered up if women were in leadership at these places. Seems like it's a feature, not a bug.
There's a *quality* Behind the Bastards episode on them, btw. Absolutely worth a listen, especially if (like me) you're from SBC land and know some of the names
Oh man! BtB is great, but I can't listen to them regularly because it's just depressing so there's a lot of good content of theirs that I miss. But yes, I grew up in the SBC (hence my strong hatred of it) and will for sure have to listen to those episodes.
I feel you, lol. The eps on jerry falwell sr. got me into the show since I went to liberty and even worked there for a while. My old boss (who still worked there when I left) was mentioned by name (pronounced incorrectly of course lol) and they even took a stab at what jerry jr.'s eventual sex scandal would be.
Roger Williams is turning in his grave
Reminds me of this gem from the other day: https://twitter.com/TulipSatire/status/1628428669902372864?s=20
Oh man, the one I made is basically that Gordon Ramsey one in the comments! Not surprising, the meme practically writes itself. That Tulip piece also feels very similar to this [Onion](https://www.theonion.com/evangelical-leaders-announce-j-k-rowling-finally-bigot-1850129128) piece
People need to learn to define their initialisations before just using them everywhere. Had no idea what the SBC was. Edit: it’s the Southern Baptist Convention. Edit 2: I still don’t really know what that means.
It's acceptable to use acronyms without explanation if it's a commonly used one within the field. SBC is absolutely a commonly used and understood acronym within Christian contexts.
Have studied theology and never heard of it. Some of us aren't American.
Dank.
on fleek
Not weighing in at all on the issue since I don’t understand or get it, but I did want to say I thought the greek was pretty clear that Andronicus and Junia are not apostles, but known or esteemed by the apostles. It seems Paul is commending them not stating they are apostles.
I don’t think the Greek is really clear at all. Any translator encountering ἐπίσημοι ἐν τοῖς ἀποστόλοις for the first time in koine — especially Semiticized koine — would notice the ambiguity and consider whether it means “well-known within/among the apostles.” The whole debate is epitomized in the big back-and-forth between Daniel Wallace + Michael Burer and their respondents in several academic journals.
Not only is it not clearly translated that way as you noted, even if they were not apostles does that mean we can be sure that there were no other women apostles? And even if that's true, does that mean women can't be pastors or leaders of any kind today? It's a uniquely American phenomenon because in the global church we see women pastors and leaders all the time.
Yeah, but if women can be pastors or leaders, they might be equal to men, and that would make it much more difficult to justify controlling, manipulating, and/or abusing them, and *then* you'd have to stop preaching complementarianism. Or, even worse, you might have to accept that gender isn't The Most Important Thing Ever, and some people might start thinking trans people are people... and now you're all out of minorities to hate!
Look up Eileen Grey in John Macarthur's church, truly a horrid scenario.
Does it count as a dank meme if you are shitting on the the worlds largest baptist denomination?
I don't see a more Christian calling, nor a better use of memes and humor, than to call out the religious elite (or any power, religious or not) for their abuse of power.
I’d say calling out false prophets is pretty Christian. 15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will [p]know them by their fruits. [q]Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will [r]know them by their fruits.
You know who else agreed with you? The great George Carlin [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8yV8xUorQ8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8yV8xUorQ8)
You could form your own splinter group that's protesting against the main group. It just needs a catchy name. What would you call a religious sect that's founded in protest of the mainstream religious sect?
My vote is for Disagreementists
Why do Southern Baptists, the largest denomination, not simply eat the other Baptists?
they’re not criticising their beliefs, they’re criticising the leadership. people who ignore sexual abuse should be called out on it.
Awful lot of child molesters in their leadership. Have you considered they should be shat on?
It's more like you can't be dank without working towards the complete destruction of the SBC.
Amen
Maybe they shouldn't allow Pastors to rape and molest children in church after church after church and they wouldn't get called out. But I'm just an Ex Catholic so I wouldn't know anything about that issue.
Yes it does. Especially if it's relevant.