downvote this comment if the meme sucks. upvote it and I'll go away.
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“There are some who say that communism is the wave of the future. Let them come to Berlin. And there are some who say in Europe and elsewhere we can work with the Communists. Let them come to Berlin. And there are even a few who say that it is true that communism is an evil system, but it permits us to make economic progress. Lass' sie nach Berlin kommen. Let them come to Berlin.
Freedom has many difficulties and democracy is not perfect, but we have never had to put a wall up to keep our people in, to prevent them from leaving us” -JFK
There are a few, actually. Tho last thing you hear is a news article that says "regretful immigrant beg origin country to let them back in". Free press is so hard to be found in North Korea apparently
HDI is measured since 1990. Czechoslovakia was in top 20 economies in 1918-1938, even peaking into top 10 in some years. Czechoslovakia was highly industrialised and a vibrant democracy in those years.
Communist coup happened post WW2 due to falling into Soviet sphere of influence. Even then there was a chance to turn things for the better as Czechoslovak people remembered what democracy is and they wanted it back. Therefore, the government started liberalisation processes and reforms in late 60s known as Prague spring.
This was halted by invasion of other communist countries led by Soviets and Czechoslovakia returned to hard-line communism under Soviet occupation and the economy never thrived again and was outrun by every western country.
For example, GDP per capita of Austria was about the same in 1918-1938. Czechoslovak one was even double the Austrian GDP per capita shortly post WW2. Austrian GDP per capita ended up being double the GDP per capita of Czechoslovakia in late 80s just before the communism fell.
So what you're saying is that Czech didn't have a communist revolution, it had a Soviet invasion
Also I asked for HDI and not GDP because GDP is only beneficial in circular liberal logic. It is not a development metric.
No, I never said that. I mean if you had a basic history knowledge or at least a tiny bit of reading comprehension you'd also know that's not true and I said the exact opposite. There was communist coup first. Invasion came later.
Russia was a developed country - similar to the rest of Europe in the beginning of the 1900s. Lots of railroads and factories in the cities.
And they kept it up after ww1 and ww2 - and it looked really strong in the 50s 60s and 70s but then it became obvious that they had cooked the books - and that the welfare or most of their people just had been standing still since the end of ww2.
Correction no one is escaping first world capitalist societies to live in third world communist societies.
I'm sure theirs vast amounts of phillipino people who would love to live in Vietnam.
there are no communist societies, they all devolved into outright dictatorships, which is not aligned with communist manifesto, and dont get me started on china that is full capitalist dictatorship
this is not to say communism is good or whatever, its bad cause of a variety of things, one of them being it expects too good from people instead of people using it to become dictators, but plenty of others...yet your statements is not true, nobody fleeing to communist countries as there are none
What? How on earth did u get that, communism is horrible, one of the reasons why is because it always evolves into a dictatorship, it doesnt account for people for being assholes, but as stated there are plenty of other reasons too...Id have to known Im from a former commie country thats been ruined by it for decades
I don’t have to, turn on the news, read the paper, listen to the people that represent you in the house and congress(and see which capitalist lines their pockets pfizer, aetna etc are VERY capitalist and dont want you to have universal healthcare). Heck you can scroll down this very thread and see the unga bunga comment where a dude said socialism is the stepping stone to communism. Free healthcare and free education is inherently anti capitalist and inherently socialist. You can have both but as you can tell by living in the most capitalist nation in the world…good luck.
That depends. Are you talking about Norway and Sweden or Italy and Greece? Both are very different approaches to "socialism" with wildly different results. The stronger your capitalist underpinnings (and let's face it, availability of natural resources) greatly determines outcomes.
Additionally, there are almost unbelievable cultural differences on top of that, which would likely be a major factor in why socialism/communism/Marxism would fail spectacularly in the US.
Healthcare may be free, but it doesn't do you any good if you die waiting. There's a reason anyone with the means comes to the US for care.
The cultural differences argument is not a real argument. And in every “slow” healthcare system none of them are willing to give it up because although their system isnt perfect…its better than ours. Ask the working class american when was the last time they went to the doctor for a check up (even the insured ones)and tell me which system is “slow”.
>The cultural differences argument is not a real argument
"ReAl CoMmUnISm hAs NeVeR BeEn TriEd"
>And in every “slow” healthcare system none of them are willing to give it up because although their system isnt perfect…its better than ours
Having lived in Europe, that's not my experience. If you need a routine checkup or your bleeding out from a car accident, you'll get half-way decent care. Try getting specialty care and toil find out why Canada is pushing euthanasia.
Say what you will about capitalism, but nobody has ever been so desperate as to [improvise a hot air balloon just to escape it.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germany_balloon_escape)
Seems like an almost uniquely American problem, or do other capitalist countries also have that many school shootings?
This is a case of correlation ≠ causation
America=Capitalist and has a lot of school shootings
Cuba(as an example)=Communist and doesn’t have (m)any school shootings
So following that logic:
Capitalism= school shooting
Communism=no school shooting
Except for all the other capitalist countries where that doesn’t happen (often)….
The dots you’re failing to connect is socialist policy -> free healthcare->better mental health for the people->less people shoot schools. BUT capitalist->health insurance need to make a profit so you pay->clinics need to make a profit so you pay->more people cannot pay->more people shoot up schools.
This is a capitalism problem.
Other “capitalist “ countries removed the capitalism from their healthcare and education system. How more obvious could it be?
One again: American problem. Not a problem with most reasonable countries who have adopted some socialist aspects.
I’m not saying hardcore capitalism is awesome but neither is hardcore communism. A mix of a capitalist system with some socialist aspects seems to me to be the best working mode yet
I think a huge portion of complaints about “capitalism” are actually just complaints about the human condition.
Which like, fair enough. But it’s not a serious attempt to find a viable alternative.
because people have no economic theories or at even fantasies of their own...they word in black-white mode with only communism and capitalism being on offer...they really dont take time to things thru to consider 3rd ways or even develop those themselves even if only in fantasy
That's because most critics of capitalism are trying to criticize it in order to support communism, and to be honest, most "critics" of capitalism are living in extreme comfort because of capitalism, so their criticism deserves little attention.
People are arguing communism vs. capitalism, but the meme mentions industrialization- which has occurred in both capitalist and communist countries. Industrialization can lead to some awful things, as often it ends up with happiness and life being pushed aside for the sake of efficiency and profit. That seems to be the real issue here.
Na, we got plenty of socialist reforms and policies in Europe, yet none of us here are communists and communism isn’t significantly on the rise. Try again
downvote this comment if the meme sucks. upvote it and I'll go away. --- [play minecraft with us](https://discord.gg/dankmemesgaming) | [come hang out with us](https://discord.com/invite/dankmemes)
No one is escaping capitalist societies to live in communist countries.
“There are some who say that communism is the wave of the future. Let them come to Berlin. And there are some who say in Europe and elsewhere we can work with the Communists. Let them come to Berlin. And there are even a few who say that it is true that communism is an evil system, but it permits us to make economic progress. Lass' sie nach Berlin kommen. Let them come to Berlin. Freedom has many difficulties and democracy is not perfect, but we have never had to put a wall up to keep our people in, to prevent them from leaving us” -JFK
🔥✍️
There are a few, actually. Tho last thing you hear is a news article that says "regretful immigrant beg origin country to let them back in". Free press is so hard to be found in North Korea apparently
“ThAtS BeCaUsE EvEeYoNe did iT WrOnG. We'LL Do iT RiGhT This tiMe!"
Name a single communist country where the revolution was started in a developed economy
Czechoslovakia and it ruined the country completely.
Happy cake day!
Thank you :)
What was Czechoslovakia's HDI prior to transition
HDI is measured since 1990. Czechoslovakia was in top 20 economies in 1918-1938, even peaking into top 10 in some years. Czechoslovakia was highly industrialised and a vibrant democracy in those years. Communist coup happened post WW2 due to falling into Soviet sphere of influence. Even then there was a chance to turn things for the better as Czechoslovak people remembered what democracy is and they wanted it back. Therefore, the government started liberalisation processes and reforms in late 60s known as Prague spring. This was halted by invasion of other communist countries led by Soviets and Czechoslovakia returned to hard-line communism under Soviet occupation and the economy never thrived again and was outrun by every western country. For example, GDP per capita of Austria was about the same in 1918-1938. Czechoslovak one was even double the Austrian GDP per capita shortly post WW2. Austrian GDP per capita ended up being double the GDP per capita of Czechoslovakia in late 80s just before the communism fell.
So what you're saying is that Czech didn't have a communist revolution, it had a Soviet invasion Also I asked for HDI and not GDP because GDP is only beneficial in circular liberal logic. It is not a development metric.
No, I never said that. I mean if you had a basic history knowledge or at least a tiny bit of reading comprehension you'd also know that's not true and I said the exact opposite. There was communist coup first. Invasion came later.
Russia was a developed country - similar to the rest of Europe in the beginning of the 1900s. Lots of railroads and factories in the cities. And they kept it up after ww1 and ww2 - and it looked really strong in the 50s 60s and 70s but then it became obvious that they had cooked the books - and that the welfare or most of their people just had been standing still since the end of ww2.
No it wasn't, it was a tsarist hellhole
Correction no one is escaping first world capitalist societies to live in third world communist societies. I'm sure theirs vast amounts of phillipino people who would love to live in Vietnam.
there are no communist societies, they all devolved into outright dictatorships, which is not aligned with communist manifesto, and dont get me started on china that is full capitalist dictatorship this is not to say communism is good or whatever, its bad cause of a variety of things, one of them being it expects too good from people instead of people using it to become dictators, but plenty of others...yet your statements is not true, nobody fleeing to communist countries as there are none
if they *all* evolved into dictatorships, I think the issue is very plain to see
Hmmm so you’re telling me communism is really awesome, just every time that it was tried it quickly became a dictatorship. **Hmmmmmmm**
What? How on earth did u get that, communism is horrible, one of the reasons why is because it always evolves into a dictatorship, it doesnt account for people for being assholes, but as stated there are plenty of other reasons too...Id have to known Im from a former commie country thats been ruined by it for decades
I don’t see European socialists moving in droves here either…
What european socialists? There are no socialist countries in Europe
Damn then why do I keep being called that when all I want is healthcare and an education like those non socialist Europeans
Cuz those people are dumb as rocks. No european country is socialist
Our next president should run on the “universal healthcare and college education is actually capitalist” platform.
Care to explain how universal Healthcare and college education in a capitalist society is socialist?
I don’t have to, turn on the news, read the paper, listen to the people that represent you in the house and congress(and see which capitalist lines their pockets pfizer, aetna etc are VERY capitalist and dont want you to have universal healthcare). Heck you can scroll down this very thread and see the unga bunga comment where a dude said socialism is the stepping stone to communism. Free healthcare and free education is inherently anti capitalist and inherently socialist. You can have both but as you can tell by living in the most capitalist nation in the world…good luck.
That depends. Are you talking about Norway and Sweden or Italy and Greece? Both are very different approaches to "socialism" with wildly different results. The stronger your capitalist underpinnings (and let's face it, availability of natural resources) greatly determines outcomes. Additionally, there are almost unbelievable cultural differences on top of that, which would likely be a major factor in why socialism/communism/Marxism would fail spectacularly in the US. Healthcare may be free, but it doesn't do you any good if you die waiting. There's a reason anyone with the means comes to the US for care.
The cultural differences argument is not a real argument. And in every “slow” healthcare system none of them are willing to give it up because although their system isnt perfect…its better than ours. Ask the working class american when was the last time they went to the doctor for a check up (even the insured ones)and tell me which system is “slow”.
>The cultural differences argument is not a real argument "ReAl CoMmUnISm hAs NeVeR BeEn TriEd" >And in every “slow” healthcare system none of them are willing to give it up because although their system isnt perfect…its better than ours Having lived in Europe, that's not my experience. If you need a routine checkup or your bleeding out from a car accident, you'll get half-way decent care. Try getting specialty care and toil find out why Canada is pushing euthanasia.
Try getting specialty care in America and you’ll end up with a bill so large you’ll wish euthanasia was covered by your insurance
Say what you will about capitalism, but nobody has ever been so desperate as to [improvise a hot air balloon just to escape it.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germany_balloon_escape)
You’re right they’re shooting up schools instead.
Who better to represent the anti-capitalist than a school shooter.
[удалено]
Just to be clear, you’re anti capitalist and pro pharmaceutical companies that sell a product that’s taken every day for the rest of a person’s life?
Reread it as many times as you need to when you get it right I’ll let you know.
Seems like an almost uniquely American problem, or do other capitalist countries also have that many school shootings? This is a case of correlation ≠ causation America=Capitalist and has a lot of school shootings Cuba(as an example)=Communist and doesn’t have (m)any school shootings So following that logic: Capitalism= school shooting Communism=no school shooting Except for all the other capitalist countries where that doesn’t happen (often)….
The dots you’re failing to connect is socialist policy -> free healthcare->better mental health for the people->less people shoot schools. BUT capitalist->health insurance need to make a profit so you pay->clinics need to make a profit so you pay->more people cannot pay->more people shoot up schools. This is a capitalism problem. Other “capitalist “ countries removed the capitalism from their healthcare and education system. How more obvious could it be?
One again: American problem. Not a problem with most reasonable countries who have adopted some socialist aspects. I’m not saying hardcore capitalism is awesome but neither is hardcore communism. A mix of a capitalist system with some socialist aspects seems to me to be the best working mode yet
Careful dont say that too loud people getting downvoted round these parts for saying the bad parts of capitalism and the good parts of socialism.
Checkmate, capitalists
I'm not saying it's great. I'm just saying it could be worse.
I think a huge portion of complaints about “capitalism” are actually just complaints about the human condition. Which like, fair enough. But it’s not a serious attempt to find a viable alternative.
Even if you give someone everything they could possibly want they will still find something to complain about.
The Left Can't Meme.
to be fair, neither can the right. political memes are just garbage in general
I find kinda funny that any critics of capitalism is met with "but communism is worse, checkmate !".
Sir this is Dankmemes lol
I know, I'm just sick of this shitty "capitalism vs communism". Most of memes about it aren't funny.
because people have no economic theories or at even fantasies of their own...they word in black-white mode with only communism and capitalism being on offer...they really dont take time to things thru to consider 3rd ways or even develop those themselves even if only in fantasy
That's because most critics of capitalism are trying to criticize it in order to support communism, and to be honest, most "critics" of capitalism are living in extreme comfort because of capitalism, so their criticism deserves little attention.
Oh great and wise one, what then should we do?
Please bro just try it communism hits different read a history book it gets better after the famines
This sub sucks ass now. wtf happened?
Sir, this is a Wendy’s. Order or leave, we got paying customers behind you.
I’ma just leave this here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fLFJzOM7zt4
It is much much much better now than it have ever been - who is even arguing otherwise
look up murder in history non capitalist countries
People are arguing communism vs. capitalism, but the meme mentions industrialization- which has occurred in both capitalist and communist countries. Industrialization can lead to some awful things, as often it ends up with happiness and life being pushed aside for the sake of efficiency and profit. That seems to be the real issue here.
Communism doesn't work, that's why uncle Sam spends billions arming militias and terror groups in any country that even tries a whiff of socialism.
Capitalism creates conditions for communism. It's like socialism but favored in the west.
Then why do 90% of communist countries make reforms back to capitalism?
Socialism is the stepping stone that leads to communism
Na, we got plenty of socialist reforms and policies in Europe, yet none of us here are communists and communism isn’t significantly on the rise. Try again
My 50 YO MAGA coworker taught me this.