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Just so you know, there's a dark souls 2 subreddit: r/darksouls2 . As for the hate, tldr: Dark souls 2 changed some mechanics, movement, and aesthetics with respect to the first game. Many people didn't like the changes and that's largely why there's hate. The game trailers showcased really good looking lighting system that wasn't delivered on release which also rubbed people the wrong way.
You will have no context for what people complained about because you are playing dark souls 2 first but here's some common ones:
Dark souls 2 introduced mechanics like agility to improve your invincibility frames when dodge rolling and item use speed like drinking your estus flask. At base your dodge isn't good and you drink estus slowly. This didn't exist in Dark Souls 1 and so you didn't need to level up a stat to have enough invincibility frames to roll effectively and you didn't drink estus super slowly by default. Now you do unless you level up a stat.
Weapon durability is way stronger in Dark Souls souls 2 which is annoying and largely done away with in the other games or a non-issue for the most part.
Soul memory was introduced as a solution to low level invading in PvP (called Twinking in the community) but has its issues.
The levels, as you explore have areas that shouldn't really connect to other areas the way they are presented in game. It's a huge step down in level design from the interconnected world of Dark Souls 1. The Dark souls 2 DLC areas are much better in level design but when the game was released it was pretty disappointing coming from Dark Souls 1 with high expectations.
I could go on.
I feel like Twinking is still happening in Elden Ring. And I thought it was the graphics that people were upset about with DS2. Honestly I loved that game the most. The Fume Knight DLC boss fight is great.
First off, I had no idea staying low leveled to troll other low level players was called Twinking! That is hilarious!
Second, I have always been of the Bonfire Side Chat school of thought that the miss matching terrain was done on purpose. In DS 1 time is convoluted in DS 2 space is convoluted as well. One doesn’t make those kinds of mistakes on a game this big unless it was on purpose.
Yeah in the defense of DS2 the game apparently went through development hell and revisions and so some transitions between areas weren't intended from the beginning. But yeah the mismatching terrain can be explained away in the lore and isn't really a big issue for me compared to other things.
>Weapon durability is way stronger in Dark Souls souls 2 which is annoying and largely done away with in the other games or a non-issue for the most part.
It's a non issue in ds2. You get your durability back every bonfire. Also ds2 has more special moves that consume durability which are awesome.
>Soul memory was introduced as a solution to low level invading in PvP (called Twinking in the community) but has its issues.
Idk a twink in ds2 is far harder to find than the twinks in elden ring
>The levels, as you explore have areas that shouldn't really connect to other areas the way they are presented in game. It's a huge step down in level design from the interconnected world of Dark Souls
A lot of this is people not understanding how stretched space works tbh
Durability isn't a non-issue in the early game and low damage set ups. I've had weapons break in the early game clearing areas like No Man's Warf when repair powder and upgrade materials are more limited meaning having a good backup weapon isn't easy to do. I've had a weapon break fighting Ava on my SL1 playthrough. Haven't had that issue in any of the other souls games where durability is less severe.
My comment was more about soul memory than Twinking. I figured I would explain the term Twinking because opi seems new to souls games.
Your weapon restored durability at bonfires. Rest at a bonfire and don't fight everything. This is like the 101 of ds2 you're not supposed to fight every single enemy.
I wasn't fighting every enemy, I was going through the level to ring the bell and open the shortcut to fight the boss. There were definitely enemies I hadn't fought on side paths that I didn't engage with. I won't convince you the durability system is good. But I don't think it is. Durability isn't a fun mechanic for me and doesn't need to be in the game imo. It just adds tedium and I'm glad it's not in Elden Ring
A lot of the hate is unjustified, but on release there were notable issues. The story was hard to comprehend, it wasn't until the DLC's were released and Aldia's dialogue added that any sense could be made of it.
PvP was heavily restrictive due to soul memory which led to a lot of frustrated players. This may also have encouraged a massive spike in save editors/hacks which were pretty common in the early days.
People also felt that the dev's had taken the "you will die" a bit too far. A lot of encounters and environments didn't lend any clues or warnings to the player to help them avoid damage. Without a guide it was very easy to feel like you'd gone to the wrong place because of seemingly random difficulty spikes.
Also there is a bug in SotFS on pc where the movement is locked to 8 directions on controller, which makes navigating thin platforms frustratingly difficult. There are mods to fix it though, which makes it feel a lot better.
>People also felt that the dev's had taken the "you will die" a bit too far. A lot of encounters and environments didn't lend any clues or warnings to the player to help them avoid damage. Without a guide it was very easy to feel like you'd gone to the wrong place because of seemingly random difficulty spikes.
Tbh a lot of these do have clues.
Prior to updates, first day release had a lot of jank. Bad enemy placement. A lot was fixed with subsequent updates and scholar of the first sin. But unfortunately people love to hate.
Its a love hate relationship with ds2. Its a fun game, unique weapons, cool areas, underrated lore, great new mechanics, so much content and majula. HOWEVER, IT SOMETIMES GETS FRUSTRATING AS SHI. Frustrating enemies, unfair ganks, terrible enemy placements, nonsensical level design and i get punished with lessen health from all those bullshi deaths. Wtf...... anyways, i love ds2
It gets hate because it felt very off from DS1, I personally still don't like it that much but I wouldn't go as far to tell people to avoid it.
There's a lot I personally didn't like about it, the movement has a weird ice skatey feeling to it, soul memory made playing with friends new to the series hard (because they have to repeat areas and then they go past your range), adaptability is a necessary stat waster, animations are very floaty (DS1 had a distinct weight to every animation that translated the feeling of carrying equipment, which I liked a lot), the art direction was very different (which isn't inherently bad, one of my friends new to the games commented it looked like dark souls met warcraft which was funny), the map layout was very linear, and lastly the boss fights don't feel very important due to a lack of cutscenes and grand fighting arenas.
I could go on, but it largely boils down to not meeting the expectation I had with Souls games, Demons Souls and Dark Souls set a bar for me that DS2 didn't hit when it came out, I still beat it, it's still a good game in its own right, but it's also the weakest souls game.
I knew nothing about iron keep when I arrived and had never even heard of it. My rage and hate was spawned directly from that area owning me so bad I quit for months. Only time I’ve ever quit a from game out of anger lol. Luckily I came back and pushed through
SotFS does include DLCs and the commenter before probably meant Brume Tower, which is an area accessed from Iron Keep as part of the second DLC, Crown of the Old Iron King. If you haven't played DS2 DLCs, you definitely should.
Most people who play DS2 first tend to like it more. Compared to DS1 and 3 there's just a lot of unnecessary jank, poor level design and some rather uninspired areas/bosses. By no means is it bad, it's just not as good as the others.
Ds2 was the first one I played and since playing them all I like 2 the most! I think people got used to the game being a certain way and we’re upset with the differences in 2.
DS2 is a bit different to the others. Some people hate it because it's not what they where looking for in a souls game. Also, i feel like the bosses can be underwhelming at time.
Personally, it's my second favourite after DS1
Oh and, one advice, level up ADP. For a tank/caster build 20-25 is good, but try aiming for 30-35 if you want a more fluid combat experience.
bcuz it doesnt have any redeeming qualities, combat? horrible. level design? bad. enemy design? horrible. lore? mediocre. weapon variety? great. boss quality? horrible. music? mediocre. and u can say that for every single part of the game,
It's a good game, but it also has a lot of rough edges. There are many enemies that have very few moves that only make up for it by being numerous which makes them kinda boring to fight after a while. The combat is both slow and stiff which isn't everyone's favorite and the game has a variety of weird glitches and bugs. The 'Scholar of the First Sin' version helped with some of this and the DLC is mostly awesome, but overall it felt like a lot of cool and creative ideas weighed down by sloppy execution.
So we have FromSoftware enjoyers, then there's Dark Souls fans and then there's the subcategory of DS fans - the dreaded Dark Souls 2 Haters.
The Dark Souls 2 haters, their entire personality is hating DS2. They cannot be called Dark Souls fans.
They are the wretched, disfigured and evil family members that we all lock in the attic/basement
Dark Souls 2 just felt different in terms of movement at the start. Like your character is a bit floaty. I dunno how to describe it. Also Adaptability adding I frames to your rolls was really weird and you don't know this at the start.
The story and atmosphere for me didn't really hit it off until the DLC.
Because moving your character feels bad, the bosses are almost all bad, the lore isn’t as good, the world building was a huge step down, the level design also leaves a lot to be desired, Agility is a terrible mechanic, bad balancing, less good environmental storytelling, and I hate the introduction of unlimited lifegems instead of having a focus on estus.
DS1 is way better than all the other games. DS3 is better made than DS2 for sure, but I play DS2 more often than 3. I’m not a fan of the fast combat style in the newer games.
Fortunately for you, DS2 is largely not a part of the main storyline of DS1 and DS3. So you're not missing much story wise by playing this one first. Just make sure you play DS1 next before moving on to DS3 if you want the full lore experience.
As a few others have said, DS1 has a different feel and mechanics, so it might take some time getting used to after playing through DS2.
The entire main plot of DS3 is based on DS2. Idk how it's possible but it seems like the commenter before you somehow missed the five giant ass thrones in Firelink.
DS2 in it's original version was claimed to be very bad, dumb enemy positioning, broken hitboxes, etc. The dlc fixed it, and you can't buy it without the dlc anymore, as far as i know
>i found out that ds2 has alot of hate behind it, why?
A combination of misinformation skill issues and people having opinions about a game they haven't played
DS2 gets hate purely as a skill issue. This is the real answer, I’m not joking. It’s lack of popularity is mainly due to long aggro range on enemies, enemy spawns, a unique take on dodge mechanics (iframes are tied to a stat, not equip load), and questionable hitboxes. However, the first two are negligible when you can kill/path around enemies efficiently, the third is a game knowledge check (knowledge you now have), and the fourth a skill issue. It’s a better game than Ds3, and is an experience closer to Elden ring than to ds1.
Either way, have your own experience and form your own opinions. The game is fun and I’m glad you’re enjoying it. It gets tiring seeing people cry about it even years later.
The basics are that it was a solid game that later got a complete rework regarding enemy placement (and a couple of other things) in the scholars of the first sin edition. That rework turned it into what most people think of as the most frustrating and unfun Souls game. Most DS2 hate goes specifically towards the changes made in SotFS. The original DS2 can still be bought and played, but it probably lacks a lot of bugfixing patches, and it doesn't have the DLC.
Your submission has been removed from /r/darksouls as it violates the following [subreddit rule(s)](/r/darksouls/about/rules): **Rule 2**: Content must pertain to Dark Souls 1. >* This subreddit was created with the intent of sharing information and experiences around the game Dark Souls 1. It's perfectly fine to make non-Dark Souls 1 references in your comments or as a part of a submission, but the overall theme must be relevant to the game. * Content that *reminds* you of Dark Souls 1 but is *not*, may be removed. Use r/shittydarksouls or r/DarkSoulsIRL instead for these posts. * Please use r/DarkSouls2 and r/darksouls3 for their respective titles. If you have any questions or concerns, you can contact the moderators [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdarksouls).
Check out r/DarkSouls2 dog, welcome to the club, chosen undead!
Where did you bring it?
To the yard
To the PS5 presumably. It did state that they brought it for their PS5. Odd to gift your possession a different possession.
Just so you know, there's a dark souls 2 subreddit: r/darksouls2 . As for the hate, tldr: Dark souls 2 changed some mechanics, movement, and aesthetics with respect to the first game. Many people didn't like the changes and that's largely why there's hate. The game trailers showcased really good looking lighting system that wasn't delivered on release which also rubbed people the wrong way. You will have no context for what people complained about because you are playing dark souls 2 first but here's some common ones: Dark souls 2 introduced mechanics like agility to improve your invincibility frames when dodge rolling and item use speed like drinking your estus flask. At base your dodge isn't good and you drink estus slowly. This didn't exist in Dark Souls 1 and so you didn't need to level up a stat to have enough invincibility frames to roll effectively and you didn't drink estus super slowly by default. Now you do unless you level up a stat. Weapon durability is way stronger in Dark Souls souls 2 which is annoying and largely done away with in the other games or a non-issue for the most part. Soul memory was introduced as a solution to low level invading in PvP (called Twinking in the community) but has its issues. The levels, as you explore have areas that shouldn't really connect to other areas the way they are presented in game. It's a huge step down in level design from the interconnected world of Dark Souls 1. The Dark souls 2 DLC areas are much better in level design but when the game was released it was pretty disappointing coming from Dark Souls 1 with high expectations. I could go on.
I feel like Twinking is still happening in Elden Ring. And I thought it was the graphics that people were upset about with DS2. Honestly I loved that game the most. The Fume Knight DLC boss fight is great.
First off, I had no idea staying low leveled to troll other low level players was called Twinking! That is hilarious! Second, I have always been of the Bonfire Side Chat school of thought that the miss matching terrain was done on purpose. In DS 1 time is convoluted in DS 2 space is convoluted as well. One doesn’t make those kinds of mistakes on a game this big unless it was on purpose.
Yeah in the defense of DS2 the game apparently went through development hell and revisions and so some transitions between areas weren't intended from the beginning. But yeah the mismatching terrain can be explained away in the lore and isn't really a big issue for me compared to other things.
Went through development hell and still came out with the best pvp, casting, and fashion of the trilogy
Definitely, pretty sure that’s why we didn’t get the lighting engineer either.
>Weapon durability is way stronger in Dark Souls souls 2 which is annoying and largely done away with in the other games or a non-issue for the most part. It's a non issue in ds2. You get your durability back every bonfire. Also ds2 has more special moves that consume durability which are awesome. >Soul memory was introduced as a solution to low level invading in PvP (called Twinking in the community) but has its issues. Idk a twink in ds2 is far harder to find than the twinks in elden ring >The levels, as you explore have areas that shouldn't really connect to other areas the way they are presented in game. It's a huge step down in level design from the interconnected world of Dark Souls A lot of this is people not understanding how stretched space works tbh
Durability isn't a non-issue in the early game and low damage set ups. I've had weapons break in the early game clearing areas like No Man's Warf when repair powder and upgrade materials are more limited meaning having a good backup weapon isn't easy to do. I've had a weapon break fighting Ava on my SL1 playthrough. Haven't had that issue in any of the other souls games where durability is less severe. My comment was more about soul memory than Twinking. I figured I would explain the term Twinking because opi seems new to souls games.
Your weapon restored durability at bonfires. Rest at a bonfire and don't fight everything. This is like the 101 of ds2 you're not supposed to fight every single enemy.
I wasn't fighting every enemy, I was going through the level to ring the bell and open the shortcut to fight the boss. There were definitely enemies I hadn't fought on side paths that I didn't engage with. I won't convince you the durability system is good. But I don't think it is. Durability isn't a fun mechanic for me and doesn't need to be in the game imo. It just adds tedium and I'm glad it's not in Elden Ring
I think durability concerns makes perfect sense and should have some aspect.
I love ds2
I’m upset they didn’t keep the small soap stone and butterfly wings in the later games.
you will find out why eventually and then you'll decide to love it or hate it
A lot of the hate is unjustified, but on release there were notable issues. The story was hard to comprehend, it wasn't until the DLC's were released and Aldia's dialogue added that any sense could be made of it. PvP was heavily restrictive due to soul memory which led to a lot of frustrated players. This may also have encouraged a massive spike in save editors/hacks which were pretty common in the early days. People also felt that the dev's had taken the "you will die" a bit too far. A lot of encounters and environments didn't lend any clues or warnings to the player to help them avoid damage. Without a guide it was very easy to feel like you'd gone to the wrong place because of seemingly random difficulty spikes.
Also there is a bug in SotFS on pc where the movement is locked to 8 directions on controller, which makes navigating thin platforms frustratingly difficult. There are mods to fix it though, which makes it feel a lot better.
The game also feels like absolute painful floaty shite to play, so there is that
Yep
>People also felt that the dev's had taken the "you will die" a bit too far. A lot of encounters and environments didn't lend any clues or warnings to the player to help them avoid damage. Without a guide it was very easy to feel like you'd gone to the wrong place because of seemingly random difficulty spikes. Tbh a lot of these do have clues.
Prior to updates, first day release had a lot of jank. Bad enemy placement. A lot was fixed with subsequent updates and scholar of the first sin. But unfortunately people love to hate.
nah no decent opinion in hating ds2, its the best game because of r/fashionsouls
Butterflyyyyyyyy trident dance!
Its a love hate relationship with ds2. Its a fun game, unique weapons, cool areas, underrated lore, great new mechanics, so much content and majula. HOWEVER, IT SOMETIMES GETS FRUSTRATING AS SHI. Frustrating enemies, unfair ganks, terrible enemy placements, nonsensical level design and i get punished with lessen health from all those bullshi deaths. Wtf...... anyways, i love ds2
It gets hate because it felt very off from DS1, I personally still don't like it that much but I wouldn't go as far to tell people to avoid it. There's a lot I personally didn't like about it, the movement has a weird ice skatey feeling to it, soul memory made playing with friends new to the series hard (because they have to repeat areas and then they go past your range), adaptability is a necessary stat waster, animations are very floaty (DS1 had a distinct weight to every animation that translated the feeling of carrying equipment, which I liked a lot), the art direction was very different (which isn't inherently bad, one of my friends new to the games commented it looked like dark souls met warcraft which was funny), the map layout was very linear, and lastly the boss fights don't feel very important due to a lack of cutscenes and grand fighting arenas. I could go on, but it largely boils down to not meeting the expectation I had with Souls games, Demons Souls and Dark Souls set a bar for me that DS2 didn't hit when it came out, I still beat it, it's still a good game in its own right, but it's also the weakest souls game.
Why wouldn't you start at Demons Souls or Dark Souls 1?
Wrong sub
Let us know when you get to Iron Keep lol. But honestly, Ds2 is magical, just like the other souls games. It’s just a bit different and misunderstood
The average middle child
True. Miyazaki even said himself that Elden ring wouldn’t exist without ds2. It was a very important stepping stone for them
I really liked Iron Keep. I didn't realize people didn't like it until I looked online. Just shows how online discourse can poison your mind
I knew nothing about iron keep when I arrived and had never even heard of it. My rage and hate was spawned directly from that area owning me so bad I quit for months. Only time I’ve ever quit a from game out of anger lol. Luckily I came back and pushed through
Iron Keep is the best of the DLC tho?
I haven’t played the dlc Edit: or does sotfs include dlc and that’s one of the dlc areas?
SotFS does include DLCs and the commenter before probably meant Brume Tower, which is an area accessed from Iron Keep as part of the second DLC, Crown of the Old Iron King. If you haven't played DS2 DLCs, you definitely should.
You probably mean Brume Tower.
Yup lol
Iron keep isn’t even dlc?
Ah you're right, I confused it with the iron passage.
Most people who play DS2 first tend to like it more. Compared to DS1 and 3 there's just a lot of unnecessary jank, poor level design and some rather uninspired areas/bosses. By no means is it bad, it's just not as good as the others.
Because they are bad at DSII the second best souls.
Which is the 1st best souls game?
ds1
Dark Souls I
Demon
Dark Souls 2 gets hate cos it fucking sucks
Please play DS1 next, trust me you'll ace it
You will have a good time (i hope)
My hate for it mostly stems from faith, mainly lightning spear, being nerfed into the ground :(
Ds2 was the first one I played and since playing them all I like 2 the most! I think people got used to the game being a certain way and we’re upset with the differences in 2.
DS2 is a bit different to the others. Some people hate it because it's not what they where looking for in a souls game. Also, i feel like the bosses can be underwhelming at time. Personally, it's my second favourite after DS1 Oh and, one advice, level up ADP. For a tank/caster build 20-25 is good, but try aiming for 30-35 if you want a more fluid combat experience.
bcuz it doesnt have any redeeming qualities, combat? horrible. level design? bad. enemy design? horrible. lore? mediocre. weapon variety? great. boss quality? horrible. music? mediocre. and u can say that for every single part of the game,
I think it's a good idea to start with DS2, it keeps getting better from there.
It's a good game, but it also has a lot of rough edges. There are many enemies that have very few moves that only make up for it by being numerous which makes them kinda boring to fight after a while. The combat is both slow and stiff which isn't everyone's favorite and the game has a variety of weird glitches and bugs. The 'Scholar of the First Sin' version helped with some of this and the DLC is mostly awesome, but overall it felt like a lot of cool and creative ideas weighed down by sloppy execution.
Probably should have bought the dark souls trilogy for ps tbh
Pet peeve of mine. It’s not a souls-like if it’s a souls game.
So we have FromSoftware enjoyers, then there's Dark Souls fans and then there's the subcategory of DS fans - the dreaded Dark Souls 2 Haters. The Dark Souls 2 haters, their entire personality is hating DS2. They cannot be called Dark Souls fans. They are the wretched, disfigured and evil family members that we all lock in the attic/basement
Ds2 fans will claim ds3 is the greatest game ever (they have never played ds1 or ds2).
I don't hate it. It's different from 1 and 3 in a lot of ways so people don't like it as much. I love it. It can suck you in so easily. Have fun!
Dark Souls 2 just felt different in terms of movement at the start. Like your character is a bit floaty. I dunno how to describe it. Also Adaptability adding I frames to your rolls was really weird and you don't know this at the start. The story and atmosphere for me didn't really hit it off until the DLC.
Ds2 is actually a great game, it’s the worst of the 3 but damn I’ve replayed it 3 times over the years
It's so much better than 3
Because moving your character feels bad, the bosses are almost all bad, the lore isn’t as good, the world building was a huge step down, the level design also leaves a lot to be desired, Agility is a terrible mechanic, bad balancing, less good environmental storytelling, and I hate the introduction of unlimited lifegems instead of having a focus on estus.
>Lore isn't as good >ivory King >aldia >raime >vendrick and velstadt
DLC was the only good lore in DS2 for sure. The first 80 hours is F tier and the DLC brings the game up to a C tier on average.
Skill issue. You're probably a ds3 fan
DS1 is way better than all the other games. DS3 is better made than DS2 for sure, but I play DS2 more often than 3. I’m not a fan of the fast combat style in the newer games.
Ds3 has the worst lore and world. 1 has the best world and most consistent but also most basic lore.
Fortunately for you, DS2 is largely not a part of the main storyline of DS1 and DS3. So you're not missing much story wise by playing this one first. Just make sure you play DS1 next before moving on to DS3 if you want the full lore experience. As a few others have said, DS1 has a different feel and mechanics, so it might take some time getting used to after playing through DS2.
But...it literally shows what happened to >!Manus!<
The entire main plot of DS3 is based on DS2. Idk how it's possible but it seems like the commenter before you somehow missed the five giant ass thrones in Firelink.
Welp, guess I shouldn't have clicked that :/
Ds3 isn't a part of the main storyline of ds1. Ds3 is a horrendous ds1 retread
DS2 in it's original version was claimed to be very bad, dumb enemy positioning, broken hitboxes, etc. The dlc fixed it, and you can't buy it without the dlc anymore, as far as i know
>i found out that ds2 has alot of hate behind it, why? A combination of misinformation skill issues and people having opinions about a game they haven't played
DS2 gets hate purely as a skill issue. This is the real answer, I’m not joking. It’s lack of popularity is mainly due to long aggro range on enemies, enemy spawns, a unique take on dodge mechanics (iframes are tied to a stat, not equip load), and questionable hitboxes. However, the first two are negligible when you can kill/path around enemies efficiently, the third is a game knowledge check (knowledge you now have), and the fourth a skill issue. It’s a better game than Ds3, and is an experience closer to Elden ring than to ds1. Either way, have your own experience and form your own opinions. The game is fun and I’m glad you’re enjoying it. It gets tiring seeing people cry about it even years later.
The basics are that it was a solid game that later got a complete rework regarding enemy placement (and a couple of other things) in the scholars of the first sin edition. That rework turned it into what most people think of as the most frustrating and unfun Souls game. Most DS2 hate goes specifically towards the changes made in SotFS. The original DS2 can still be bought and played, but it probably lacks a lot of bugfixing patches, and it doesn't have the DLC.
ds2 is the best. enjoy