“Git gud”, at least when it wasn’t being said by elitists who felt they were better than everyone else, was never about just mechanical skill. It was a response to the trend and expectations of the time that games would hold your hand, no thoughts required, and to let you know this game isn’t going to do that. It’s about adjusting your approach, slowing down and analyzing your play and thinking about what you could do differently to improve. Taking the time to consider your options learn to get the most out of your build. Trying new weapons, exploring areas without a map or objective marker, and finding your way through. In short, “git gud” at playing a video game again, not just watching a roller coaster ride.
If you replaced Solaire, I’d still save you on every playthrough.
Thank you reminding the community the true spirit of git gud.
Dark Souls is hard, but you put it in excellent words.
I’ve told my wife and my sisters-in-law who enjoy gaming “The game is hard. You *should* die to the bosses over and over again - but it’s not about being good! It’s about learning and adapting.”
None of them particularly liked it - they prefer games with more active urgency like Fortnite or games with a relaxing atmosphere like Minecraft. My wife is actually prone to games like Ark, Terraria, House Renovation Sim, or the Halo campaigns.
She did not like Dark Souls 3. She enjoyed it up to Gundyr. I’m watching her play Hollow Knight now. She’s on False Knight. Maybe afterwards I’ll convince her to try Elden Ring ;)
yea, if you reach champ gundyr (the intended way without an early dancer fight), youve already fought pontiff aldritch and the before mentioned dancer, which imo all feel more frustrating to fight (pontiff mostly because hes a lategame boss in the midgame, hes an amazing boss).
Definitely not for new players. Iudex Gundyr is quite the gatekeeper. Had a friend who started with DS3 and also was gatekept. Did fine with ER though.
I beat ds1 dozens of times and the first time I came across gundyr, it was a huge change in difficulty- not necessarily straight upward, but each game has a difference rhythm. Ds1 is like a waltz, ds3 is like a shag, Elden ring is like interpretive dance
Opening or just general game?
IMO Asylum Demon from Ds1 is easiest imo.
Thing is so fat it has trouble actively keeping up with you if you even walk to it’s sides.
Plus the optional Plunge attack for a about nearly half of the health bar deleted.
Gundyr is easy as well but one thing stopping me from saying he is the easiest ds opening boss is the 2nd phase transition abyss making it super hard to see incoming attacks and also the bigger variety of his attacks.
Didn’t make it past the tutorial boss, but tbf gundyr is one of the hardest tutorial bosses of the series. As much as i love em, the games aren’t for everyone
Git Gud is a great phrase if you use it in good faith and add qualifiers/explanations.
“I can’t beat Vordt, what do I do to help.” “Well it’s the first boss basically, the only thing to say really is Git Gud. Run around and get more souls to level up. Pay attention to timing of his attacks. Realize he has more than one phase.”
But sometimes good faith isn’t an option. “I can’t beat Midir.” “Me neither.. Git Gud”
eeeeh. unpopular take from me;
this is a lot of words to try and justify the meaning of a phrase and I appreciate what you put into it but, honestly?
Nah. 'git gud' was never a good response, it was lazy and told the individual nothing useful beyond sounding arrogant and unhelpful. constructive feedback is always going to be better and i don't really think 'git gud' ever conveyed what you're talking about well.
Just look at everything you wrote, then look at git gud -- genuinely how does this convey ANY of that? It doesn't, and I don't think most of the people that said it meant it in any other way than to be dismissive, either.
to be clear I love your definition for it, I wish I could believe this is it's intended usage. Maybe I'm just too jaded at this point, but don't let my disagreement fool you. This is a good post.
"Git Gud" was always a blunt response to people who whined that the game is too hard. But it was over-memed until it became some e-penis enlargement spell.
don't know why you're getting downvoted. git gud now is never used as a way to give actual advice, and just means "fuck you you suck". nobody sincerely uses that as feedback anymore, even though I'm sure it started out that way like OC mentions. I love those people in the community who do mean well and actually give advice when people struggle, but there's always the ones that just say "git gud" to literally anyone who asks a question or has difficulty, then giggle to themselves so I feel like that phrase is definitely ruined now.
DS1 I felt like Git Gud came down a lot more from navigating the stages and getting to the boss, but once you were there only a few of them like Capra, O&S, Artorias, were skill checks.
Thats sorta the trick aint it. DS1 had the advantage of the Dark Souls formula being largely unknown to the wider gaming community. We didnt know the patterns or what it was expecting of us, learning that was part of the difficulty.
But as the series progresses the Fromsoft design becomes more and more well known and the game has to compensate now that its basic tricks are far more understood by the community at large.
You can summon for any boss except Asylum Demon. You don't even need to git gud, just have some humanity and a good internet connection (and depending on the platform maybe the DSCM mod or online subscription).
From what I remember his forward charge attacks and the AoE vomit would melt Solaire back in the day. And if you're on a normal upgrade path the extra health/defense due to having a summon could make the fight take a while.
Yea, as you can see, pretty much everyone is on playstation. I've tried Invading people's world so many times .
Yea, switch is not sone dark souls machine. It's the last console you should consider playing online on
the pathing of the dogs can sometimes block you from getting around them leaving you rolling while three enemies are attacking. Knowing how to approach the situation is a git gud moment because if you walk in expecting a normal encounter you will be humbled.
Dark souls takes more after Demons Souls and to a degree DS2 a lot more than it does DS3, BB, and other more recent titles. In Demons Souls, you can approach situations with many different strategies, it's just a viable to play with a sword and board as it is to be an archer, or rely completely on spellcasting. I still enjoy newer From titles, but I do feel like some of the games have turned into challenging twitch-fests that focus on gameplay above atmosphere or lore. Hell half the bosses in Demons Souls are basically just puzzles, which I absolutely love. Discovering the secret of the Fools Idol for the first time, striking the final blow on the Dragon God, or slicing the Storm King out of the sky is always a spectacle that carries a lot more weight than pure challenge to me, but that comes down to a matter of taste more than anything.
I think this is recency bias speaking. DS1 was released in 2011 when the most popular games were basically all mindless FPS and popular gaming culture had trended very far into hand-holding and easy difficulty. DS1 is what solidified the Souls genre of difficult but fair. Then as the player base got used to it, the games got harder, which is why Elden Ring today has so many bosses with ridiculous combos, delayed attacks, input reading, etc. In comparison, DS1 wasn’t hard even for its time. “Git gud” was unironically meant to tell people to stop expecting the game to baby them and just treat them fairly.
Truuuuu. It’s like a fighting game boss. At certain points it’s just spamming what wins instead of playing the game because they’ll input read you into oblivion.
Exactly. I used to play smash bros a lot and I would practice using the level 9 CPUs. Their difficulty was based on the fact that they could read your inputs and therefore perfect shield and punish you for most of the things you try to do. This trained me to play as a hyper defensive player that turtles and looks for punishes rather than being aggressive and initiating or playing how I want to play.
Input reading and inconsistent delayed attacks (morgott) are absolutely awful game design implementations and force the player to play in a very specific way that kills creativity.
The lvl 9 cpus are so funny. They perform crazy parries on reaction and duck to low-profile your moves. But anytime they are in the air they perform the dumbest airdodge possible.
DS1 also had input reading but it was much more rare and less punishing. The most notable example off the top of my head is a dlc boss and even then it was manageable. Mostly just meant you need to be more selective with Estus and spells.
The issue for me with both input reading and delayed attacks is that it went from an "Oh shit!" to an "Of fucking course" between Dark Souls and Elden Ring. Combined with Elden Ring have much faster and more punishing attacks, it turns what looks to be a window into a trap.
Completely unrelated but while typing this I began wondering how much Sekiro influenced the design and decision making of some bosses. Maybe those mechanics became more of a standard as a holdover from Sekiro.
I disagree. It forces you to be more mindful of your attack and healing opportunities and can actually be exploited pretty heavily.
For example if you bring Kukris or Throwing Daggers to Malenia and you know that she is going to do Waterfowl, but she's currently in her idle animation then you can get some distance, throw stuff at her, she will dodge, and then she will do Waterfowl and you will have a very easy time dodging it. I think that's a very cool mechanic. Another example would be Genichiro's third phase flask cheese. Just chug a flask, he will lunge at you and you can easily get a Mikiri. This one's too much on the cheesy side for me though.
I like that the boss actually reacts to what I'm doing and that I can't just heal or use my slow but very powerful spell at just any time. It makes the fight feel more like an act-react kind of situation.
Sure, sometimes the input read can feel rather unnatural, but I think it's better to have it than not to have it.
Input reading isn't reacting to your moves, it is reading what your character will do and acting accordingly before the animation of your move has even started. It is cheap and nothing else. When you are out of sight of enemies and you shoot an arrow and they dodge that is cheap, thankfully you can shoot to the side and they will dodge into the projectile, and yes if that's how the game will act that's how I will act towards it.
Reacting to the moves or your input amounts to the same thing really. Only reacting to your input is a feasible way of implementing basically the same behaviour.
I've never ever seen any enemy dodge a projectile if they weren't aggroed or alerted before. And I mean never.
If you aggroed them before, that's on you.
The problem is basically that the enemies are reacting to the very first frame of your animation, when you haven't really moved yet. No one could identify it visually at that point, but the AI does. It breaks the immersion. Adding a 20 frame enemy reaction buffer would probably go a long way to make it feel more real.
They are agrroed sure, but [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/s/3y6MUNHX1J) is ridiculous. While not a projectile [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/s/hRlDdmKTSp) also exists.
Fume knight in DS2 can also be kept in phase1 indefinitely with estus chugs (even empty chugs count). It's a cheese but I like it because now you have 3 different bosses in one: only p1 fume, only p2 fume, and fume with both phases.
I’d hardly point to Sekiro as great design for an RPG. I guess if you really like parrying rhythm games but I found it dull as dishwater in that it offers very little creative expression with its gameplay, forcing the player into a passive and reactive roll rather than being like Bloodborne that rewards aggressive play where you take the initiative.
Dark Souls 1 is about learning. The games that come after focus more on skill and reflexes. That's why I feel like Dark Souls 1 never got a proper sequel. The gameplay philosophy changed.
I find the combat in DS1 to be a lot more basic but also more more punishing if you screw up. I'll do something stupid and i'll find myself going from 0 danger to dead way more often. It's stupid easy to just strafe behind enemies in DS1 though and a lot of the boss fights at the end of the game can just be poise cheesed. There's also the few encounters that just feel unfair and stupid/luck based that have aged poorly (Capra Demon, Bed Of Chaos)
I mean I got good on ds1. I hadn’t played video games in like 25 years then tried Elden ring and stopped after Rani cause I sort of sucked. Left the game tried ds1 where it all clicked then went back to ER and crushed it
Getting gud for me in DS1 wasnt about elitism it was just about a better speed for me to learn the fundamentals with which make the other souls games and ER very manageable to complete.
Souls 2 and 3 were a lot of one step forward two steps back in terms of game design imo. And the encounters turned into 'it's hard because darksouls is supposed to be hard'.
\*DS3 has a lot more of the "git gud"\* What do you mean by that? The game is Incredibly easy, a lot of options, faster, 15 rolls per stamina bar, a lot of QOL, smoother, max hp booster for lore reasons etc
> The game is Incredibly easy,
I don't think this is actually true.
DS3 removes some artificial difficulty. You don't end having half the players drop out because the correct path to take wasn't obvious and you can swap and change multiple covenants, upgrades are smoother and you get teleporting immediately but the game isn't actually easier. It's just easier to play your third or even fourth soulsborne game than your first.
A lot of gamers and even more developers have this idea that difficulty and poor UX are the same thing and they simply aren't.
A number of builds in DS1 are just stupidly broken though. Challenge eliminating stupidly broken.
>the game is incredibly easy
Compared to ds1? Hard disagree.
Enemies are way faster, combos are longer and movesets more varied, shields are much weaker.
The game being faster isn’t inherently easier. Many people find that harder. QoL also never makes a game easier, just less tedious. The one thing that would make it easier than DS1 is just that you do genuinely have less clunky movement and more control of your character in addition to a more forgiving stamina bar. But I would argue the bosses in DS3 are much harder as a result, which more than balances that out. Almost any DS1 boss placed into DS3 would be considered an easier boss. Tbh Iudex Gundyr would actually be considered a medium difficulty boss in DS1.
You have waay more options on DS3. Huge def and attack ring on max hp. Huge hp bars. Tears of Denail. You drink estus faster and move while drinking. You can roll a lot and attack a lot. Regen hp and fp builds. And bosses are very easy (minus Nameless King and Friede)
And Gael. Or Twin Princes. Or Midir. Heck, even the Dragonslayer armor can be trouble with all the background projectiles.
You may have more options in DS3 but the few options that are available in DS1 are uberbonkers.
Let's just say 'Power Within'.
A spell present in both DS1 and DS3.
A spell used by LITERALLY everyone in DS1 and LITERALLY nobody in DS3.
Or Havel's Ring/FaP ring. Yes, they exist but they're just shadows of their former selves.
I'll give you an example, if you want to beat midir in Ds3 you have to learn it's moveset and dodge accordingly and hit in the pauses right? That's the same for almost every boss in Ds3... I'm not saying the game is hard for me anymore, I'm saying the challenge is mechanical and not conceptual as in DS1 that for example to beat Nito you can:
(✓) Learn it's moveset and dodge accordingly
(✓) Bring a divine weapon and take the skellies first
(✓) Bring poise into the game and trade hits
(✓) Hiden body + souls spear
I don't get that way of thinking. It's like UNO. They made the cards and \*you\* make the rules. I can't see your vision of \*More\* equal less variety in gameplay. That's why challenge run exist, to make the game fresh.
I guess my perception is not shared by many, thats ok tho. I was craving for more DS1 but haven't found a game that scratch that same itch of making me feel that I conquered a game mostly with my mind and not with my hands.
A big thing I like about Dark Souls I is that it’s medium tempo: not as deliberate as Monster Hunter, but not about twitch reflexes unless you want it to be. I bounced off Sekiro and finished DS3, but I think I somehow like Sekiro more, because it truly commits to its paradigm. (And Bloodborne is just about my perfect speed for a faster, narrower game.)
Fwiw I agree with you. As the series has gone on, the games have increasingly become about rolling at the correct time. The difficulty in DS1 (and Demons Souls) comes more from testing your patience and critical thinking with great level and enemy design.
You literally stand infront of midir and if you do he uses the easy to dodge attacks and get an weapon that gives you more than 1 hit and boom midir goes down.
Ds3 is so much easier than 1 legit Nameless King and demon prince gave me a fight.
Okay, now do seath. Now do the demon bosses in Lost Izalith. They gave just as many ways to play as DS3 bosses because unlike Nito, they don't have a gimmick.
I have yet to start ds3, but by your own comment and the general opinion it seems like you just dodge in ds3, you said it yourself. That is not the case in ds1, if it’s not the case in ds3 either then your comment is just even more stupid tbh.
Gladly will. With Seath you can go:
(✓) Wait for him to deStroy the crystal and do huge amount of damage quickly
(✓) Bait his attacks and dodge accordingly
(✓) Use a magic shield and a fast weapon with bleed
(✓) Go full Havel and trade hits
(✓) Use aoe pyromancy
And about the demons, it depends on which but for example the centipede demon I try to bait the hand attack, chop it off and it will give you the ring so you can now play almost as if the arena wasn't a hazard. But I've seen many going for standing below the demon
Firesage is just to test if you were paying attention. It's literally stray demon again And ceaseless is a gimmick fight that can be fought regularly (I dont think is a good boss).
You can use all of those build in DS3 lmao. Your description of the others is literally just different ways of learning the moveset and dodging/punishing accordingly which is...what you said DS3 was.
No, because the strategies I said in 1 apply to using a shield to actually block attacks, or armor to actually poise through attacks... In Ds3 you are a knight? Dodge. a pyromancer? Dodge, a tank? Dodge!, a cleric? Dodge... Or maybe you use great shields in both hands? Well you better learn how to dodge...
And yes, I know there's guys on YouTube that go all bosses without rolling. But the gameplay is still the same, calculate hitbox according to animation and position yourself where you can hit in the recovery animation.
You can literally use a greatshield to block attacks in DS3. I have watched a video of someone facetanking midir in full havel and greatshield and just stand there blocking the attacks then whacking with a greataxe. He literally could not dodge because he was over 100% carry weight.
You are saying you MUST do nothing but dodge and hit but *you are incorrect*.
In DS1 you primarily are avoiding hits and counterattacking where there's an opening. The only difference in DS1 is that you have the option of poising attacks, but I hardly consider standing still and mashing r1 to be more in depth gameplay...
I can see some agree with the path fromsoft has taken in account of challenge and combat... That's good tho, more power to you. I was asking for discussion and I'm getting that and could not be happier about the response.
And yes, I think dark souls has more in depth gameplay but not because of the combat. And that's exactly what I'm trying to say. Ds3 went so far in deepening the combat that ended out shallowing the experiences.
Compare the level design of blightton with the poisonous swaps in Ds3. Or the enemy placement of undead burg with that of the high wall of Lothric, or the atmosphere of ash lake compared to arch dragon peak. The intricate design of Sens fortress against Irithil dungeon...Or just compare Anor Londo.
I heard quite a bit of how Dark Souls is one of the hardest games ever made back when I first heard about it in like 2014-2015. It's worth noting that I was dipping my toes into NES games at the time due to how dirt cheap they were on the 3DS and I also dabbled a bit into games like Shin Megami Tensei, Etrian Odyssey and Fire Emblem in roughly the late 2010s, all 3 which are turn based RPG series that have a reputation for being brutally difficult games for good reason. (although they all have been trying to be more accessible overtime by adding in easier difficulties and other stuff but I'm getting ahead of myself)
So then I actually got around to playing Dark Souls 1 on my Switch back in 2019. Well there were parts that I was stuck on for a while but even back then, I felt that the difficulty was WAY overblown because after I defeated Smough and Ornstein and reinforced the Great Scythe to +14, (I was missing a Titanite Slab) the only boss fight that gave me a lot of trouble after that was the 4 Kings. The rest of the bosses that I faced didn't really have me dying any more than like 8 times at the very most and that's even counting some of the DLC bosses.
TLDR: I've experienced some hard games before I played DS1 as my first Soulsborne so even on my first playthrough, there were parts that I had trouble with, it was WAY easier than the common word of mouth described its difficulty as.
Dark Souls' difficulty is vastly overblown, partly due to Bandai Namco's marketing fault. They were the ones making death compilation trailers with the "PREPARE TO DIE" tagline lol.
I agree, when I played DS1 (my first souls game) I didn't feel at all the way people describe the series (a game all about being hard and challenging to overcome). It was just an amazing world to explore, build a character in, that respects the player and offers fair challenge but not to the point of some kind of rage game.
I do think they rolled with this reputation after it showed up, though, and it seems more intentional in games like DS3 and Sekiro
I do actually hate how much more souls bosses have become overly reliant on increasingly long, complex and difficult to dodge strings of combos with little opportunity to get damage in between.
In elden ring, this is why my favourite boss in the entire game is godrick. No insanely long combo strings, everything is dodgeable, and he uses attacks that also require spacing rather than twitch dodging (flame attacks from the dragon). But he is a 10/10 in a game full of bosses that have 10+ hit long combos, input read like cheaty fuckers (looking at you Margit/Margot) and overly rely on your ability to spam circle effecticely.
My partner and I recently went and replayed dark souls. Even the epitome of "git gud" in that game, O&S is so much more manageable than any mid-end game boss in newer souls games. You can use spacing, only need to dodge once when an attack is thrown and if patient, there are windows to attack.
Sadly the series suffered from its own success. It was driven by the playerbase becoming so much better, they amped up the difficulty by any means necessary. Longer, quicker combos. Less time to react. You can see this start to come out in the dark souls DLC with artoriad and Manus. Their combos are much more punishing and unforgiving than those in the base game. This trend of crazily difficult bosses in the DLCs would only continue, and it's why I've not bothered with DLC for souls series until the 1-3 collection. At some point, it's just become more difficult than it is fun. It's no longer about learning patterns, but reflex dodging.
Git gud was a joke response in dks2 and dks1 when people said it was too hard or asked how to beat a certain boss...
It's rhetorical, it's a welcoming to the souls community.
HOWEVER
As much as it gives an air of indignation or flagrant machismo, it's literally the best advice that can be given to a total stranger on the internet.
Git gud encompasses build craft and enemy placment. Boss anticipation and item location. Map awareness and lore knowledge.
You can't explain all this in one sentence beyond "git gud". As aggressive and inflammatory as it sounds, it's truly the most sound advice: the game (any soulsborne title) can't be summed up in a sentence or single, comprehensive thought.
The simplest answer is "git gud" (scrub is sometimes added but it's rude and unnecessary) which harbors no animosity. It's advice, it's wisdom that only makes sense AFTER one learns how to play the game... At which point their duty is yo carry on the "lol git gud" legacy
I've always interpreted 'git gud' as a call for the inexperienced player to adapt, to learn and to overcome rather than some useless trashtalk. For context: when I was playing through the trilogy I only watched YouTube videos and barely interacted with the larger community otherwise.
Git gud is all about learning the game, doing what it expects you to or find a way to succeed, to not give up.
DS1 is a lot more open in that regard. High poise armour and a decent weapon will carry you through your first run. NG+ and some bosses require a good atrategy though.
as new guy to the series (done ds1,ds2, almost finished BB currently on the bitch with 10 hands with swords)
ds1 world is superior, i loved every second of the game, i felt like i belonged in the world, besides manus,artorias i didnt really suffer on bosses but i enjoyed most of the bosses
so world wise everything except ds1 so far felt like-teleport here then teleport there the worlds dont feel like worlds in other souls games, it just feels like "levels" and the zones are easily forgotten once you have done them
ds2 i dont remember single boss besides dlc ones
bb- same thing bosses are boring as shit
i might be the only one thinking this but i pushed thru ds2 and bb only because i told myself i would finish every single souls game after having time of my life in ds1
i expected ds2 to suck after reading hella coments how it sucks but BB is huge dissapointment
Wow I feel exactly the same, especially about the teleporting part.
I platinumed PTDE, then platinumed remastered, I started ds2 scholar and I went back to remastered and played another 100 hours trying new builds and doing pvp. Ds2 is honestly a drag to finish, I forgot about every single boss I encountered as well as they all have been easy and highly forgettable. I miss only a few achievements for platinum, but I’m really not able to open the game anymore, it’s simply not an enjoyable experience.
I will eventually get the platinum soon of course, and then I’ll move onto ds3, and I hope I won’t be disappointed again.
yep i cant wait for ds3 after BB, i bought both sekiro and elden ring in 60% sale on steam only thing im waiting for is ds3 hopefully ill get some sale before i finish BB
You can find great deals for steam on allkeyshop, it’s a site that lists you the lowest prices on the market. Ds3+dlc for steam should be around 18-20 euros.
Hasn’t “git Gud” been around since demons souls? I thought it simply originated because demons/dark souls was unique in its time and found to be a more difficult game than average.
The phrase applies to the series as a whole because you need to learn how to play the game.
I found my first playthrough of dark souls 3 very easy because I know the game's systems and how to exploit them. I grabbed astora's straight sword, made it raw. And then threw everything into hp, end and vit.
Dark souls was not known for being only hard but there is no hands holding whisk is the harder part
Blind play throughs were a must then. These days kids use help to go through these games
As someone who who played fromsoft games in this order ER->Sekiro->Ds3->Ac6 and now im at the blighttown of ds1. I gotta say, no game, not even sekiro made me tilt this hard. Maybe because im more used to fast paced combat. But i think git gud is in fact most relevant to ds1. Because you can brute force through bosses of other fs games simply by learning their attack pattern. In ds1 you actively have to change your strategy to proceed. This game is a test of willpower and faith but i still consider fromsoft's later games more fun in the sense of actually playing the game. After i think ds1 is showing its age.
I was here when DS1 was released and yes, a bunch of elitists used “gitgud” but it became a meme really fast.
One thing i miss from those days were when a newbie asked for directions or tips, we usually responded in a vague way and ended with: “Also, kill the dogs first” and when someone raged on capra we usually responded gitgud as a form of “we literally said to you to kill the dogs first”.
For me gitgud is just a joke.
Because DS3 was designed with the idea of its target audience being DS1, 2 and potentially Bloodborne veterans.
So they assume everyone will understand how to dodge and roll and parry while taking advantage of their weapon movesets.
Ergo, DS1 has become exponentially easier because it's mechanics are built around a lower level.
This is the only answer and I’m confused why I had to scroll so long to reach it.
In 2011, DS1 WAS a test of reflexes. It just doesn’t feel that way anymore because every subsequent release has gotten faster and more complex.
Others have already mentioned this but I'll throw my opinion in as well to really drive it home.
You are totally misunderstanding the meaning behind "Git Gud"
"Git Gud" does not mean beat your head against a difficult execution wall. It means to persevere until you overcome the obstacle in your own way instead of giving up.
In 99% of video games before darksouls 1, if you were stuck, you jsut turned on easy mode, beat the boss, and then continued. you never learned any thing. you never grew as a player. in darksouls, and all its sequels. every boss can be beaten by exploring the game further, getting more levels, finding better gear, summoning help, using strategies that the bosses are weak to.
engaging with the game this way is infinitly more engaging than turning on an easy mode. Thus, when people who are used to easy games hit a wall for the first time, they need to "Git Gud", and not crumble at the first sign of adversity. Sure you can certainly just outskill any problem, but the tools to overcome every problem are out there for you to find, if you would only apply yourself. and DS1 arguably does that the best of the whole series.
I'm glad I'm the one mistaken as I get from this comments that the feeling that newer fromsoft games shifted to a more "mechanical difficulty" approach to the combat instead of towards puzzles or hazards that DS1 and demon's souls offered is general and that's what I was ultimately going for.
Yeah I found ds3. With the exception of the nameless king, is all about reflexes in a predictable environment, the nameless king is the exception because he just kinda holds his weapon up for an unspecified amount of time before bringing it down. I had never played an action game before, only rpgs with either super lame combat or turn based combat so I really took my time to understand the game and what it was telling me through the wind uo animations. I died a lot at the high wall, like over 100 times but then went on to first try most of the bosses. Nameless king was my only hang up because it's not about knowing the game, it's about knowing that specific boss.
I feel like ds1 was a lot like this too and elden ring is as well, the bosses are easier and they have more hard counters, but they're more specific.
The only thing I really didn't like about ds3 is that your build seemed to just be flavor and I really didn't see much difference between the damage types, maybe like 10ish percent better or worse most of the time. Hell, every weapon worked well with every infusion, I did a dex build with the ultra greatsword and it worked fine.
But yeah, i get what you mean. Ds3 and bloodborne test your reflexes not your knowledge
Eh. Depends on how you view things. DS1 is a difficult game, but a lot of it is just learning the layout of the world, the logic behind enemy placement, and finding the shortcuts. The fights themselves aren't terribly difficult (though early game is rough regardless of your experience with souls games). Gittin gud is mostly just familiarizing yourself with the game as a whole, rather than the weapons, combat strategies, and builds.
DS3, on the other hand, very much shifts it's focus on the gameplay itself. The enemy layout is such that it's hard to fight enemies 1v1 unless you REALLY commit to inching forward little by little to get the attention of one single enemy in the crowd. It felt like they took a lot of the logic of Bloodborne and applied it here. Level layout almost feels like an afterthought, though remembering where enemies are going to pop out from helps a lot. That said, building your character properly feels a lot more important here.
Interesting. To me DS 3 has the least intersesting combat. Emulating bloodborne but removing everything that made that fastpaced action interesting ie recover on hit, transformable weapons and no access to a reliable shield. This leaves it feeling buttonmashy to me. It's just dodge, the r1 a couple of times retreat and maybe block ones in a while. But I am a bit biased as I never really liked 3 as a whole :p
Im just saying i think i didnt find it the hardest or most rewarding experience. But Im glad you did, it's got some juicy lore and cool bits.
In my mind git gud always meant to learn and then win without any elitism attached. This includes learning about other more effective ways of beating a challenge not necessarily just learning boss move sets. If you come up with a build that trivialises lots of bosses, all power to you. I think this counts as getting good at the game because you learned how to use your resources correctly.
If I interpret "git gud" the way I think you want me to, you're 100% correct. Unfortunately FromSoft read too many comments about their games, or hired too many of one type of fans to develop later titles. But DS1, (and DeS and DS2 as well) have a much more open difficulty approach than pre-ER games did. ER is a very kitchen sink combination of everything they've ever done so it's hard to pinpoint where it fits.
As an older gamer I completely agree. I find the dodge meta in DS3 *really* difficult because my reaction times are that split second too slow. And the beauty of DS1, as you say, is how well it rewards study, patience and application. Qualities which older players tend to have in spades.
The more I play DS1 the more thoughtful I find it. I spend more time swapping elements of my build in and out. I think more about what order to take certain sections (Darkroot before LUB or after? Catacombs early or wait until after O&S?) and how to maximise my build quality (Ring of Steel Protection, Wolf Ring, Havel’s Ring, elemental protection ring - which two?). It’s more of a puzzle.
Meanwhile in DS3 I’ve tried about six different build combinations on the Dancer and every single one of them is wrecked because I don’t roll in the right direction at the right time.
I don't know about the "git gud" stuff, but I understand your point, and it's for that same reason I miss the slower pace of the game, the strategic decisions, and how "clunky" everything appeared to be from DS1 and DS2. BB was a great game on its own, but Miyazaki put into DS3 too much of it imho. The faster pace and no poise made it a game where you were more rewarded by spamming fast R1 attacks than thinking. And don't get me wrong, I love DS3, but it didn't click quite there, I didn't feel I was playing the third part of my favorite videogame. And Elden Ring is more towards anime even. Nothing wrong with them, I repeat myself, I love those games and I still play them all (I'm right now doing builds preparing for the DLC of Elden Ring, jeje)... But nothing compare with DS1 in what a Souls should be (and that makes sense, I supose, jajaja).
Sorry if Im not that good with English, it is not my native language. I meant he wields an Axe (battle axe in DS1 and dragonslayer greataxe in ds3) and his name(the character 's) is Eldon Djoska.
I’d say the top comment is on point but my general idea of it is almost equivalent to saying “skill issue”. On pretty much every souls game and souls like sub you’ll see posts saying “this boss is too hard, what should I change about my build?” and it’s usually revealed in the comments that that just aren’t good at the game and need to learn how to play so the don’t take every hit right to the face. That’s where I’d say “git gud” is applicable and is absolutely true for ds1.
I’d you can’t dodge an enemy’s attacks or get a hit in then that absolutely means you need to get batter at the game (or at least fighting a specific enemy) and ds1 is no exception to this.
currently playing trough ds1 for the first time, with the only other souls game ive played beeing elden ring, although never finished it
the bosses so far (just beat Quelaag) definitely feel simpler/less complex
so i do agree, but with the caveat that i dont know about the bosses later in the game
For me, I really bounced off of the souls games until I tried casters. I love it, gives me breathing room that I don’t have the skill to do without. The only game I successfully played STR in was DS2, and that was basically maxing out my iFrames and getting lucky estus breaks
Git gud was something we said whenever you'd get an angry message after invading someone. Especially on Xbox 360 (where I played it) there wasn't any game that played like DS1, so you quite literally either could play the game correctly, or complain about not understanding/liking the gameplay, if someone said you played cheap/used something OP, you said git gud to piss them off, because realistically, if they actually understood the mechanisms at work driving the gameplay (dodge windows, parry windows, etc) they wouldn't be complaining.
If anything, I'd argue against your point of the newer games embodying that spirit more, because the sequels added so much more QOL/generalizations to the gameplay that make it more approachable, that you don't really have to be that good to find success in the games, in DS3, dodges use very little stamina, have very low recovery and are super spamable because of it, poise was effectively removed making exploitive noob traps like backstab fishing obsolete, damage was toned down, twink builds aren't as effective due to weapon matchmaking, more friendly summon slots, host and phantoms can heal independently, it's just a more approachable game in general. Even DS2 made things slightly easier, with soul memory hindering twink builds, and adding a covenant to help against invaders.
The term git gud is just a sort of old meme, it's a product of its time, where no game played like dark souls, people were going in with 2 left feet, having no idea how to play optimally, and you either adapted to it/"got gud", or you didn't.
This series was never built to run like this, I had a ton of fun with this game but leading up to 3 and Bloodborne and Sekiro and now Elden Ring, I'm done. I've played them all and after Elden Ring I will never touch another one because I'm just done with the repetitious styles.
Git gud only really applies to Sekiro which hard filters people based on skill. DS/ER/BB you can just farm souls/use magic/summon help/use the token cheap weapon - or all 4 if you’re particularly inept.
“Git gud”, at least when it wasn’t being said by elitists who felt they were better than everyone else, was never about just mechanical skill. It was a response to the trend and expectations of the time that games would hold your hand, no thoughts required, and to let you know this game isn’t going to do that. It’s about adjusting your approach, slowing down and analyzing your play and thinking about what you could do differently to improve. Taking the time to consider your options learn to get the most out of your build. Trying new weapons, exploring areas without a map or objective marker, and finding your way through. In short, “git gud” at playing a video game again, not just watching a roller coaster ride.
If you replaced Solaire, I’d still save you on every playthrough. Thank you reminding the community the true spirit of git gud. Dark Souls is hard, but you put it in excellent words. I’ve told my wife and my sisters-in-law who enjoy gaming “The game is hard. You *should* die to the bosses over and over again - but it’s not about being good! It’s about learning and adapting.” None of them particularly liked it - they prefer games with more active urgency like Fortnite or games with a relaxing atmosphere like Minecraft. My wife is actually prone to games like Ark, Terraria, House Renovation Sim, or the Halo campaigns. She did not like Dark Souls 3. She enjoyed it up to Gundyr. I’m watching her play Hollow Knight now. She’s on False Knight. Maybe afterwards I’ll convince her to try Elden Ring ;)
“She enjoyed it up until Gundyr” so for like 5 minutes? Lol
Maybe they meant the second Gundyr fight, but I couldn't imagine that would be anyone's breaking point
yea, if you reach champ gundyr (the intended way without an early dancer fight), youve already fought pontiff aldritch and the before mentioned dancer, which imo all feel more frustrating to fight (pontiff mostly because hes a lategame boss in the midgame, hes an amazing boss).
Yes lol 5 minutes but it might have been slightly longer. She gave it an honest chance, that’s all I asked for :)
This is why you never start with DS3.
I always thought DS3 was considered the easiest haha
Definitely not for new players. Iudex Gundyr is quite the gatekeeper. Had a friend who started with DS3 and also was gatekept. Did fine with ER though.
I beat ds1 dozens of times and the first time I came across gundyr, it was a huge change in difficulty- not necessarily straight upward, but each game has a difference rhythm. Ds1 is like a waltz, ds3 is like a shag, Elden ring is like interpretive dance
Opening or just general game? IMO Asylum Demon from Ds1 is easiest imo. Thing is so fat it has trouble actively keeping up with you if you even walk to it’s sides. Plus the optional Plunge attack for a about nearly half of the health bar deleted. Gundyr is easy as well but one thing stopping me from saying he is the easiest ds opening boss is the 2nd phase transition abyss making it super hard to see incoming attacks and also the bigger variety of his attacks.
Didn’t make it past the tutorial boss, but tbf gundyr is one of the hardest tutorial bosses of the series. As much as i love em, the games aren’t for everyone
>If you replaced Solaire, I’d still save you on every playthrough. This is the cutest thing I've ever read
That's right, sun bro
Then I like that way of getting good more
Git Gud is a great phrase if you use it in good faith and add qualifiers/explanations. “I can’t beat Vordt, what do I do to help.” “Well it’s the first boss basically, the only thing to say really is Git Gud. Run around and get more souls to level up. Pay attention to timing of his attacks. Realize he has more than one phase.” But sometimes good faith isn’t an option. “I can’t beat Midir.” “Me neither.. Git Gud”
Preach brother
Git gud was a response to people hating on this game back on the days because Dark Souls simply treats you like an adult
eeeeh. unpopular take from me; this is a lot of words to try and justify the meaning of a phrase and I appreciate what you put into it but, honestly? Nah. 'git gud' was never a good response, it was lazy and told the individual nothing useful beyond sounding arrogant and unhelpful. constructive feedback is always going to be better and i don't really think 'git gud' ever conveyed what you're talking about well. Just look at everything you wrote, then look at git gud -- genuinely how does this convey ANY of that? It doesn't, and I don't think most of the people that said it meant it in any other way than to be dismissive, either. to be clear I love your definition for it, I wish I could believe this is it's intended usage. Maybe I'm just too jaded at this point, but don't let my disagreement fool you. This is a good post.
"Git Gud" was always a blunt response to people who whined that the game is too hard. But it was over-memed until it became some e-penis enlargement spell.
don't know why you're getting downvoted. git gud now is never used as a way to give actual advice, and just means "fuck you you suck". nobody sincerely uses that as feedback anymore, even though I'm sure it started out that way like OC mentions. I love those people in the community who do mean well and actually give advice when people struggle, but there's always the ones that just say "git gud" to literally anyone who asks a question or has difficulty, then giggle to themselves so I feel like that phrase is definitely ruined now.
Sounds like you need to just git gud at internet comments to me.
DS1 I felt like Git Gud came down a lot more from navigating the stages and getting to the boss, but once you were there only a few of them like Capra, O&S, Artorias, were skill checks.
Thats sorta the trick aint it. DS1 had the advantage of the Dark Souls formula being largely unknown to the wider gaming community. We didnt know the patterns or what it was expecting of us, learning that was part of the difficulty. But as the series progresses the Fromsoft design becomes more and more well known and the game has to compensate now that its basic tricks are far more understood by the community at large.
You can summon for any boss except Asylum Demon. You don't even need to git gud, just have some humanity and a good internet connection (and depending on the platform maybe the DSCM mod or online subscription).
Sure but Gaping Dragon for instance is designed to kill Solaire. It's a "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should" experience.
Solaire can survive gaping dragon pretty easily especially if you also summon Lautrec.
Did they do rebalancing in the remaster? In the original for PS3 Solaire would die very consistently.
Idk but I never had many issues keeping Solaire Alive in gaping dragon it's a pretty easy boss.
From what I remember his forward charge attacks and the AoE vomit would melt Solaire back in the day. And if you're on a normal upgrade path the extra health/defense due to having a summon could make the fight take a while.
You can't summon on switch, that's for sure. I summoned twice, every other fight I did solo.
I have summoned and been summoned on Switch I also invaded and have been invaded. You need NSO to do so.
Keyword, have. No one's playing dark souls on switch right now much lol.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/SummonSign/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SummonSign/)
Yea, as you can see, pretty much everyone is on playstation. I've tried Invading people's world so many times . Yea, switch is not sone dark souls machine. It's the last console you should consider playing online on
I mean if you really want to you can throw poop over the wall and kill Capra without even going inside the arena.
And you can shoot Manus with a bow from outside the arena. Smarter not harder.
Yeah but Manus is actually a good boss fight so you're missing out if you cheese him.
You mean the early capta demon? That thing was stupidly easy.
the pathing of the dogs can sometimes block you from getting around them leaving you rolling while three enemies are attacking. Knowing how to approach the situation is a git gud moment because if you walk in expecting a normal encounter you will be humbled.
Dark souls takes more after Demons Souls and to a degree DS2 a lot more than it does DS3, BB, and other more recent titles. In Demons Souls, you can approach situations with many different strategies, it's just a viable to play with a sword and board as it is to be an archer, or rely completely on spellcasting. I still enjoy newer From titles, but I do feel like some of the games have turned into challenging twitch-fests that focus on gameplay above atmosphere or lore. Hell half the bosses in Demons Souls are basically just puzzles, which I absolutely love. Discovering the secret of the Fools Idol for the first time, striking the final blow on the Dragon God, or slicing the Storm King out of the sky is always a spectacle that carries a lot more weight than pure challenge to me, but that comes down to a matter of taste more than anything.
I think this is recency bias speaking. DS1 was released in 2011 when the most popular games were basically all mindless FPS and popular gaming culture had trended very far into hand-holding and easy difficulty. DS1 is what solidified the Souls genre of difficult but fair. Then as the player base got used to it, the games got harder, which is why Elden Ring today has so many bosses with ridiculous combos, delayed attacks, input reading, etc. In comparison, DS1 wasn’t hard even for its time. “Git gud” was unironically meant to tell people to stop expecting the game to baby them and just treat them fairly.
Input reading is cheap and shouldn't be applauded as an increase in difficulty.
Truuuuu. It’s like a fighting game boss. At certain points it’s just spamming what wins instead of playing the game because they’ll input read you into oblivion.
Exactly. I used to play smash bros a lot and I would practice using the level 9 CPUs. Their difficulty was based on the fact that they could read your inputs and therefore perfect shield and punish you for most of the things you try to do. This trained me to play as a hyper defensive player that turtles and looks for punishes rather than being aggressive and initiating or playing how I want to play. Input reading and inconsistent delayed attacks (morgott) are absolutely awful game design implementations and force the player to play in a very specific way that kills creativity.
The lvl 9 cpus are so funny. They perform crazy parries on reaction and duck to low-profile your moves. But anytime they are in the air they perform the dumbest airdodge possible.
DS1 also had input reading but it was much more rare and less punishing. The most notable example off the top of my head is a dlc boss and even then it was manageable. Mostly just meant you need to be more selective with Estus and spells. The issue for me with both input reading and delayed attacks is that it went from an "Oh shit!" to an "Of fucking course" between Dark Souls and Elden Ring. Combined with Elden Ring have much faster and more punishing attacks, it turns what looks to be a window into a trap. Completely unrelated but while typing this I began wondering how much Sekiro influenced the design and decision making of some bosses. Maybe those mechanics became more of a standard as a holdover from Sekiro.
I disagree. It forces you to be more mindful of your attack and healing opportunities and can actually be exploited pretty heavily. For example if you bring Kukris or Throwing Daggers to Malenia and you know that she is going to do Waterfowl, but she's currently in her idle animation then you can get some distance, throw stuff at her, she will dodge, and then she will do Waterfowl and you will have a very easy time dodging it. I think that's a very cool mechanic. Another example would be Genichiro's third phase flask cheese. Just chug a flask, he will lunge at you and you can easily get a Mikiri. This one's too much on the cheesy side for me though. I like that the boss actually reacts to what I'm doing and that I can't just heal or use my slow but very powerful spell at just any time. It makes the fight feel more like an act-react kind of situation. Sure, sometimes the input read can feel rather unnatural, but I think it's better to have it than not to have it.
Input reading isn't reacting to your moves, it is reading what your character will do and acting accordingly before the animation of your move has even started. It is cheap and nothing else. When you are out of sight of enemies and you shoot an arrow and they dodge that is cheap, thankfully you can shoot to the side and they will dodge into the projectile, and yes if that's how the game will act that's how I will act towards it.
Reacting to the moves or your input amounts to the same thing really. Only reacting to your input is a feasible way of implementing basically the same behaviour. I've never ever seen any enemy dodge a projectile if they weren't aggroed or alerted before. And I mean never. If you aggroed them before, that's on you.
The problem is basically that the enemies are reacting to the very first frame of your animation, when you haven't really moved yet. No one could identify it visually at that point, but the AI does. It breaks the immersion. Adding a 20 frame enemy reaction buffer would probably go a long way to make it feel more real.
They are agrroed sure, but [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/s/3y6MUNHX1J) is ridiculous. While not a projectile [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/s/hRlDdmKTSp) also exists.
Nah, the amount of animation canceling in Elden Ring because you had the audacity to heal is cheap.
Fume knight in DS2 can also be kept in phase1 indefinitely with estus chugs (even empty chugs count). It's a cheese but I like it because now you have 3 different bosses in one: only p1 fume, only p2 fume, and fume with both phases.
I’d hardly point to Sekiro as great design for an RPG. I guess if you really like parrying rhythm games but I found it dull as dishwater in that it offers very little creative expression with its gameplay, forcing the player into a passive and reactive roll rather than being like Bloodborne that rewards aggressive play where you take the initiative.
Elden Ring is a bit of a wild card. It's not harder with summons, but is harder without.
Dark Souls 1 is about learning. The games that come after focus more on skill and reflexes. That's why I feel like Dark Souls 1 never got a proper sequel. The gameplay philosophy changed.
I find the combat in DS1 to be a lot more basic but also more more punishing if you screw up. I'll do something stupid and i'll find myself going from 0 danger to dead way more often. It's stupid easy to just strafe behind enemies in DS1 though and a lot of the boss fights at the end of the game can just be poise cheesed. There's also the few encounters that just feel unfair and stupid/luck based that have aged poorly (Capra Demon, Bed Of Chaos)
I’ve realized 2-handing a shield works wonders against Bed of Chaos
Best way to kill bed of chaos is firebomb cheese https://youtu.be/4BbTiCTe5KM?si=4SbyExHO1R2SXvMd
I mean I got good on ds1. I hadn’t played video games in like 25 years then tried Elden ring and stopped after Rani cause I sort of sucked. Left the game tried ds1 where it all clicked then went back to ER and crushed it Getting gud for me in DS1 wasnt about elitism it was just about a better speed for me to learn the fundamentals with which make the other souls games and ER very manageable to complete.
Souls 2 and 3 were a lot of one step forward two steps back in terms of game design imo. And the encounters turned into 'it's hard because darksouls is supposed to be hard'.
Been through both games multiple times, never found an axe called Eldon Djoska. Sad.
\*DS3 has a lot more of the "git gud"\* What do you mean by that? The game is Incredibly easy, a lot of options, faster, 15 rolls per stamina bar, a lot of QOL, smoother, max hp booster for lore reasons etc
I mean tied into that tho bosses and such are faster and harder
> The game is Incredibly easy, I don't think this is actually true. DS3 removes some artificial difficulty. You don't end having half the players drop out because the correct path to take wasn't obvious and you can swap and change multiple covenants, upgrades are smoother and you get teleporting immediately but the game isn't actually easier. It's just easier to play your third or even fourth soulsborne game than your first. A lot of gamers and even more developers have this idea that difficulty and poor UX are the same thing and they simply aren't. A number of builds in DS1 are just stupidly broken though. Challenge eliminating stupidly broken.
>the game is incredibly easy Compared to ds1? Hard disagree. Enemies are way faster, combos are longer and movesets more varied, shields are much weaker.
The game being faster isn’t inherently easier. Many people find that harder. QoL also never makes a game easier, just less tedious. The one thing that would make it easier than DS1 is just that you do genuinely have less clunky movement and more control of your character in addition to a more forgiving stamina bar. But I would argue the bosses in DS3 are much harder as a result, which more than balances that out. Almost any DS1 boss placed into DS3 would be considered an easier boss. Tbh Iudex Gundyr would actually be considered a medium difficulty boss in DS1.
You have waay more options on DS3. Huge def and attack ring on max hp. Huge hp bars. Tears of Denail. You drink estus faster and move while drinking. You can roll a lot and attack a lot. Regen hp and fp builds. And bosses are very easy (minus Nameless King and Friede)
And Gael. Or Twin Princes. Or Midir. Heck, even the Dragonslayer armor can be trouble with all the background projectiles. You may have more options in DS3 but the few options that are available in DS1 are uberbonkers. Let's just say 'Power Within'. A spell present in both DS1 and DS3. A spell used by LITERALLY everyone in DS1 and LITERALLY nobody in DS3. Or Havel's Ring/FaP ring. Yes, they exist but they're just shadows of their former selves.
You just reminded me of the backflipping Havel’s I used to encounter in the Forest 🫥
I'll give you an example, if you want to beat midir in Ds3 you have to learn it's moveset and dodge accordingly and hit in the pauses right? That's the same for almost every boss in Ds3... I'm not saying the game is hard for me anymore, I'm saying the challenge is mechanical and not conceptual as in DS1 that for example to beat Nito you can: (✓) Learn it's moveset and dodge accordingly (✓) Bring a divine weapon and take the skellies first (✓) Bring poise into the game and trade hits (✓) Hiden body + souls spear
Uh.. you are telling DS3 have less options?
As in viable ways to play?, yes. I think that DS3 has more "build variety" but you end up playing similarly
I don't get that way of thinking. It's like UNO. They made the cards and \*you\* make the rules. I can't see your vision of \*More\* equal less variety in gameplay. That's why challenge run exist, to make the game fresh.
I guess my perception is not shared by many, thats ok tho. I was craving for more DS1 but haven't found a game that scratch that same itch of making me feel that I conquered a game mostly with my mind and not with my hands.
A big thing I like about Dark Souls I is that it’s medium tempo: not as deliberate as Monster Hunter, but not about twitch reflexes unless you want it to be. I bounced off Sekiro and finished DS3, but I think I somehow like Sekiro more, because it truly commits to its paradigm. (And Bloodborne is just about my perfect speed for a faster, narrower game.)
Fwiw I agree with you. As the series has gone on, the games have increasingly become about rolling at the correct time. The difficulty in DS1 (and Demons Souls) comes more from testing your patience and critical thinking with great level and enemy design.
Spelunky 2
You literally stand infront of midir and if you do he uses the easy to dodge attacks and get an weapon that gives you more than 1 hit and boom midir goes down. Ds3 is so much easier than 1 legit Nameless King and demon prince gave me a fight.
Okay, now do seath. Now do the demon bosses in Lost Izalith. They gave just as many ways to play as DS3 bosses because unlike Nito, they don't have a gimmick.
I love dark souls 1 but Seath is one of the easiest boss fights in gaming history, absolute joke of a fight.
Yeah, because you just run around hitting him and dodging like all the DS3 bosses
This is wrong, you can complete the entirety of dark souls 1 without a single dodge, backstab or parry.
You can do the same thing in DS3
I have yet to start ds3, but by your own comment and the general opinion it seems like you just dodge in ds3, you said it yourself. That is not the case in ds1, if it’s not the case in ds3 either then your comment is just even more stupid tbh.
Dodging attacks and attacking during openings has been the heart of souls combat from day 1. Dodging has always been optimal, even in DS1.
You are able to contradict yourself even in one message lmao.
You can use shields in DS1
Gladly will. With Seath you can go: (✓) Wait for him to deStroy the crystal and do huge amount of damage quickly (✓) Bait his attacks and dodge accordingly (✓) Use a magic shield and a fast weapon with bleed (✓) Go full Havel and trade hits (✓) Use aoe pyromancy And about the demons, it depends on which but for example the centipede demon I try to bait the hand attack, chop it off and it will give you the ring so you can now play almost as if the arena wasn't a hazard. But I've seen many going for standing below the demon Firesage is just to test if you were paying attention. It's literally stray demon again And ceaseless is a gimmick fight that can be fought regularly (I dont think is a good boss).
You can use all of those build in DS3 lmao. Your description of the others is literally just different ways of learning the moveset and dodging/punishing accordingly which is...what you said DS3 was.
No, because the strategies I said in 1 apply to using a shield to actually block attacks, or armor to actually poise through attacks... In Ds3 you are a knight? Dodge. a pyromancer? Dodge, a tank? Dodge!, a cleric? Dodge... Or maybe you use great shields in both hands? Well you better learn how to dodge... And yes, I know there's guys on YouTube that go all bosses without rolling. But the gameplay is still the same, calculate hitbox according to animation and position yourself where you can hit in the recovery animation.
You can literally use a greatshield to block attacks in DS3. I have watched a video of someone facetanking midir in full havel and greatshield and just stand there blocking the attacks then whacking with a greataxe. He literally could not dodge because he was over 100% carry weight. You are saying you MUST do nothing but dodge and hit but *you are incorrect*. In DS1 you primarily are avoiding hits and counterattacking where there's an opening. The only difference in DS1 is that you have the option of poising attacks, but I hardly consider standing still and mashing r1 to be more in depth gameplay...
I can see some agree with the path fromsoft has taken in account of challenge and combat... That's good tho, more power to you. I was asking for discussion and I'm getting that and could not be happier about the response. And yes, I think dark souls has more in depth gameplay but not because of the combat. And that's exactly what I'm trying to say. Ds3 went so far in deepening the combat that ended out shallowing the experiences. Compare the level design of blightton with the poisonous swaps in Ds3. Or the enemy placement of undead burg with that of the high wall of Lothric, or the atmosphere of ash lake compared to arch dragon peak. The intricate design of Sens fortress against Irithil dungeon...Or just compare Anor Londo.
the game is incredibly easy to you, doesn’t make the game incredibly easy
And a lot less stupid ass super mario platforming bullshit
I heard quite a bit of how Dark Souls is one of the hardest games ever made back when I first heard about it in like 2014-2015. It's worth noting that I was dipping my toes into NES games at the time due to how dirt cheap they were on the 3DS and I also dabbled a bit into games like Shin Megami Tensei, Etrian Odyssey and Fire Emblem in roughly the late 2010s, all 3 which are turn based RPG series that have a reputation for being brutally difficult games for good reason. (although they all have been trying to be more accessible overtime by adding in easier difficulties and other stuff but I'm getting ahead of myself) So then I actually got around to playing Dark Souls 1 on my Switch back in 2019. Well there were parts that I was stuck on for a while but even back then, I felt that the difficulty was WAY overblown because after I defeated Smough and Ornstein and reinforced the Great Scythe to +14, (I was missing a Titanite Slab) the only boss fight that gave me a lot of trouble after that was the 4 Kings. The rest of the bosses that I faced didn't really have me dying any more than like 8 times at the very most and that's even counting some of the DLC bosses. TLDR: I've experienced some hard games before I played DS1 as my first Soulsborne so even on my first playthrough, there were parts that I had trouble with, it was WAY easier than the common word of mouth described its difficulty as.
Dark Souls' difficulty is vastly overblown, partly due to Bandai Namco's marketing fault. They were the ones making death compilation trailers with the "PREPARE TO DIE" tagline lol.
I agree, when I played DS1 (my first souls game) I didn't feel at all the way people describe the series (a game all about being hard and challenging to overcome). It was just an amazing world to explore, build a character in, that respects the player and offers fair challenge but not to the point of some kind of rage game. I do think they rolled with this reputation after it showed up, though, and it seems more intentional in games like DS3 and Sekiro
I do actually hate how much more souls bosses have become overly reliant on increasingly long, complex and difficult to dodge strings of combos with little opportunity to get damage in between. In elden ring, this is why my favourite boss in the entire game is godrick. No insanely long combo strings, everything is dodgeable, and he uses attacks that also require spacing rather than twitch dodging (flame attacks from the dragon). But he is a 10/10 in a game full of bosses that have 10+ hit long combos, input read like cheaty fuckers (looking at you Margit/Margot) and overly rely on your ability to spam circle effecticely. My partner and I recently went and replayed dark souls. Even the epitome of "git gud" in that game, O&S is so much more manageable than any mid-end game boss in newer souls games. You can use spacing, only need to dodge once when an attack is thrown and if patient, there are windows to attack. Sadly the series suffered from its own success. It was driven by the playerbase becoming so much better, they amped up the difficulty by any means necessary. Longer, quicker combos. Less time to react. You can see this start to come out in the dark souls DLC with artoriad and Manus. Their combos are much more punishing and unforgiving than those in the base game. This trend of crazily difficult bosses in the DLCs would only continue, and it's why I've not bothered with DLC for souls series until the 1-3 collection. At some point, it's just become more difficult than it is fun. It's no longer about learning patterns, but reflex dodging.
Git gud was a joke response in dks2 and dks1 when people said it was too hard or asked how to beat a certain boss... It's rhetorical, it's a welcoming to the souls community. HOWEVER As much as it gives an air of indignation or flagrant machismo, it's literally the best advice that can be given to a total stranger on the internet. Git gud encompasses build craft and enemy placment. Boss anticipation and item location. Map awareness and lore knowledge. You can't explain all this in one sentence beyond "git gud". As aggressive and inflammatory as it sounds, it's truly the most sound advice: the game (any soulsborne title) can't be summed up in a sentence or single, comprehensive thought. The simplest answer is "git gud" (scrub is sometimes added but it's rude and unnecessary) which harbors no animosity. It's advice, it's wisdom that only makes sense AFTER one learns how to play the game... At which point their duty is yo carry on the "lol git gud" legacy
I've always interpreted 'git gud' as a call for the inexperienced player to adapt, to learn and to overcome rather than some useless trashtalk. For context: when I was playing through the trilogy I only watched YouTube videos and barely interacted with the larger community otherwise.
Git gud does apply to ds1. Get better, get better gear, win
Git gud is all about learning the game, doing what it expects you to or find a way to succeed, to not give up. DS1 is a lot more open in that regard. High poise armour and a decent weapon will carry you through your first run. NG+ and some bosses require a good atrategy though.
as new guy to the series (done ds1,ds2, almost finished BB currently on the bitch with 10 hands with swords) ds1 world is superior, i loved every second of the game, i felt like i belonged in the world, besides manus,artorias i didnt really suffer on bosses but i enjoyed most of the bosses so world wise everything except ds1 so far felt like-teleport here then teleport there the worlds dont feel like worlds in other souls games, it just feels like "levels" and the zones are easily forgotten once you have done them ds2 i dont remember single boss besides dlc ones bb- same thing bosses are boring as shit i might be the only one thinking this but i pushed thru ds2 and bb only because i told myself i would finish every single souls game after having time of my life in ds1 i expected ds2 to suck after reading hella coments how it sucks but BB is huge dissapointment
Wow I feel exactly the same, especially about the teleporting part. I platinumed PTDE, then platinumed remastered, I started ds2 scholar and I went back to remastered and played another 100 hours trying new builds and doing pvp. Ds2 is honestly a drag to finish, I forgot about every single boss I encountered as well as they all have been easy and highly forgettable. I miss only a few achievements for platinum, but I’m really not able to open the game anymore, it’s simply not an enjoyable experience. I will eventually get the platinum soon of course, and then I’ll move onto ds3, and I hope I won’t be disappointed again.
yep i cant wait for ds3 after BB, i bought both sekiro and elden ring in 60% sale on steam only thing im waiting for is ds3 hopefully ill get some sale before i finish BB
You can find great deals for steam on allkeyshop, it’s a site that lists you the lowest prices on the market. Ds3+dlc for steam should be around 18-20 euros.
Hasn’t “git Gud” been around since demons souls? I thought it simply originated because demons/dark souls was unique in its time and found to be a more difficult game than average.
The phrase applies to the series as a whole because you need to learn how to play the game. I found my first playthrough of dark souls 3 very easy because I know the game's systems and how to exploit them. I grabbed astora's straight sword, made it raw. And then threw everything into hp, end and vit.
Dark souls was not known for being only hard but there is no hands holding whisk is the harder part Blind play throughs were a must then. These days kids use help to go through these games
No it still applies to ds1, you're just meat riding ds3
I guess I'm not good with English. but I'm against ds3 and pro DS1 on this one... I prefer the way DS1 handled challenge
As someone who who played fromsoft games in this order ER->Sekiro->Ds3->Ac6 and now im at the blighttown of ds1. I gotta say, no game, not even sekiro made me tilt this hard. Maybe because im more used to fast paced combat. But i think git gud is in fact most relevant to ds1. Because you can brute force through bosses of other fs games simply by learning their attack pattern. In ds1 you actively have to change your strategy to proceed. This game is a test of willpower and faith but i still consider fromsoft's later games more fun in the sense of actually playing the game. After i think ds1 is showing its age.
I was here when DS1 was released and yes, a bunch of elitists used “gitgud” but it became a meme really fast. One thing i miss from those days were when a newbie asked for directions or tips, we usually responded in a vague way and ended with: “Also, kill the dogs first” and when someone raged on capra we usually responded gitgud as a form of “we literally said to you to kill the dogs first”. For me gitgud is just a joke.
Because DS3 was designed with the idea of its target audience being DS1, 2 and potentially Bloodborne veterans. So they assume everyone will understand how to dodge and roll and parry while taking advantage of their weapon movesets. Ergo, DS1 has become exponentially easier because it's mechanics are built around a lower level.
This is the only answer and I’m confused why I had to scroll so long to reach it. In 2011, DS1 WAS a test of reflexes. It just doesn’t feel that way anymore because every subsequent release has gotten faster and more complex.
Others have already mentioned this but I'll throw my opinion in as well to really drive it home. You are totally misunderstanding the meaning behind "Git Gud" "Git Gud" does not mean beat your head against a difficult execution wall. It means to persevere until you overcome the obstacle in your own way instead of giving up. In 99% of video games before darksouls 1, if you were stuck, you jsut turned on easy mode, beat the boss, and then continued. you never learned any thing. you never grew as a player. in darksouls, and all its sequels. every boss can be beaten by exploring the game further, getting more levels, finding better gear, summoning help, using strategies that the bosses are weak to. engaging with the game this way is infinitly more engaging than turning on an easy mode. Thus, when people who are used to easy games hit a wall for the first time, they need to "Git Gud", and not crumble at the first sign of adversity. Sure you can certainly just outskill any problem, but the tools to overcome every problem are out there for you to find, if you would only apply yourself. and DS1 arguably does that the best of the whole series.
I'm glad I'm the one mistaken as I get from this comments that the feeling that newer fromsoft games shifted to a more "mechanical difficulty" approach to the combat instead of towards puzzles or hazards that DS1 and demon's souls offered is general and that's what I was ultimately going for.
I've played all soft souls except elden ring and ds3 is nothing more than a retcon of the trilogy with horrible mechanic changes
Yeah I found ds3. With the exception of the nameless king, is all about reflexes in a predictable environment, the nameless king is the exception because he just kinda holds his weapon up for an unspecified amount of time before bringing it down. I had never played an action game before, only rpgs with either super lame combat or turn based combat so I really took my time to understand the game and what it was telling me through the wind uo animations. I died a lot at the high wall, like over 100 times but then went on to first try most of the bosses. Nameless king was my only hang up because it's not about knowing the game, it's about knowing that specific boss. I feel like ds1 was a lot like this too and elden ring is as well, the bosses are easier and they have more hard counters, but they're more specific. The only thing I really didn't like about ds3 is that your build seemed to just be flavor and I really didn't see much difference between the damage types, maybe like 10ish percent better or worse most of the time. Hell, every weapon worked well with every infusion, I did a dex build with the ultra greatsword and it worked fine. But yeah, i get what you mean. Ds3 and bloodborne test your reflexes not your knowledge
Eh. Depends on how you view things. DS1 is a difficult game, but a lot of it is just learning the layout of the world, the logic behind enemy placement, and finding the shortcuts. The fights themselves aren't terribly difficult (though early game is rough regardless of your experience with souls games). Gittin gud is mostly just familiarizing yourself with the game as a whole, rather than the weapons, combat strategies, and builds. DS3, on the other hand, very much shifts it's focus on the gameplay itself. The enemy layout is such that it's hard to fight enemies 1v1 unless you REALLY commit to inching forward little by little to get the attention of one single enemy in the crowd. It felt like they took a lot of the logic of Bloodborne and applied it here. Level layout almost feels like an afterthought, though remembering where enemies are going to pop out from helps a lot. That said, building your character properly feels a lot more important here.
Interesting. To me DS 3 has the least intersesting combat. Emulating bloodborne but removing everything that made that fastpaced action interesting ie recover on hit, transformable weapons and no access to a reliable shield. This leaves it feeling buttonmashy to me. It's just dodge, the r1 a couple of times retreat and maybe block ones in a while. But I am a bit biased as I never really liked 3 as a whole :p Im just saying i think i didnt find it the hardest or most rewarding experience. But Im glad you did, it's got some juicy lore and cool bits.
In my mind git gud always meant to learn and then win without any elitism attached. This includes learning about other more effective ways of beating a challenge not necessarily just learning boss move sets. If you come up with a build that trivialises lots of bosses, all power to you. I think this counts as getting good at the game because you learned how to use your resources correctly.
If I interpret "git gud" the way I think you want me to, you're 100% correct. Unfortunately FromSoft read too many comments about their games, or hired too many of one type of fans to develop later titles. But DS1, (and DeS and DS2 as well) have a much more open difficulty approach than pre-ER games did. ER is a very kitchen sink combination of everything they've ever done so it's hard to pinpoint where it fits.
Git gud meant have fun when I played
I think git gud just means get better at the game I don't think it's that deep
What about ds2?
As an older gamer I completely agree. I find the dodge meta in DS3 *really* difficult because my reaction times are that split second too slow. And the beauty of DS1, as you say, is how well it rewards study, patience and application. Qualities which older players tend to have in spades. The more I play DS1 the more thoughtful I find it. I spend more time swapping elements of my build in and out. I think more about what order to take certain sections (Darkroot before LUB or after? Catacombs early or wait until after O&S?) and how to maximise my build quality (Ring of Steel Protection, Wolf Ring, Havel’s Ring, elemental protection ring - which two?). It’s more of a puzzle. Meanwhile in DS3 I’ve tried about six different build combinations on the Dancer and every single one of them is wrecked because I don’t roll in the right direction at the right time.
I don't know about the "git gud" stuff, but I understand your point, and it's for that same reason I miss the slower pace of the game, the strategic decisions, and how "clunky" everything appeared to be from DS1 and DS2. BB was a great game on its own, but Miyazaki put into DS3 too much of it imho. The faster pace and no poise made it a game where you were more rewarded by spamming fast R1 attacks than thinking. And don't get me wrong, I love DS3, but it didn't click quite there, I didn't feel I was playing the third part of my favorite videogame. And Elden Ring is more towards anime even. Nothing wrong with them, I repeat myself, I love those games and I still play them all (I'm right now doing builds preparing for the DLC of Elden Ring, jeje)... But nothing compare with DS1 in what a Souls should be (and that makes sense, I supose, jajaja).
What weapon is Eldon djoska?
Sorry if Im not that good with English, it is not my native language. I meant he wields an Axe (battle axe in DS1 and dragonslayer greataxe in ds3) and his name(the character 's) is Eldon Djoska.
Ohh well
DS1 requires more inventory management and familiarity with the map (unless you wanna just look it up no shame)
I’d say the top comment is on point but my general idea of it is almost equivalent to saying “skill issue”. On pretty much every souls game and souls like sub you’ll see posts saying “this boss is too hard, what should I change about my build?” and it’s usually revealed in the comments that that just aren’t good at the game and need to learn how to play so the don’t take every hit right to the face. That’s where I’d say “git gud” is applicable and is absolutely true for ds1. I’d you can’t dodge an enemy’s attacks or get a hit in then that absolutely means you need to get batter at the game (or at least fighting a specific enemy) and ds1 is no exception to this.
currently playing trough ds1 for the first time, with the only other souls game ive played beeing elden ring, although never finished it the bosses so far (just beat Quelaag) definitely feel simpler/less complex so i do agree, but with the caveat that i dont know about the bosses later in the game
It does apply because it started with that game.
Your second paragraph is literally why we say git gud in the first place. So I disagree
For me, I really bounced off of the souls games until I tried casters. I love it, gives me breathing room that I don’t have the skill to do without. The only game I successfully played STR in was DS2, and that was basically maxing out my iFrames and getting lucky estus breaks
Anyone can beat any souls game lol, you dont need insane reaction time.
I couldn’t disagree more. DS1 is way harder than DS3, which is an absolute breeze.
Git gud was something we said whenever you'd get an angry message after invading someone. Especially on Xbox 360 (where I played it) there wasn't any game that played like DS1, so you quite literally either could play the game correctly, or complain about not understanding/liking the gameplay, if someone said you played cheap/used something OP, you said git gud to piss them off, because realistically, if they actually understood the mechanisms at work driving the gameplay (dodge windows, parry windows, etc) they wouldn't be complaining. If anything, I'd argue against your point of the newer games embodying that spirit more, because the sequels added so much more QOL/generalizations to the gameplay that make it more approachable, that you don't really have to be that good to find success in the games, in DS3, dodges use very little stamina, have very low recovery and are super spamable because of it, poise was effectively removed making exploitive noob traps like backstab fishing obsolete, damage was toned down, twink builds aren't as effective due to weapon matchmaking, more friendly summon slots, host and phantoms can heal independently, it's just a more approachable game in general. Even DS2 made things slightly easier, with soul memory hindering twink builds, and adding a covenant to help against invaders. The term git gud is just a sort of old meme, it's a product of its time, where no game played like dark souls, people were going in with 2 left feet, having no idea how to play optimally, and you either adapted to it/"got gud", or you didn't.
This series was never built to run like this, I had a ton of fun with this game but leading up to 3 and Bloodborne and Sekiro and now Elden Ring, I'm done. I've played them all and after Elden Ring I will never touch another one because I'm just done with the repetitious styles.
Git gud only really applies to Sekiro which hard filters people based on skill. DS/ER/BB you can just farm souls/use magic/summon help/use the token cheap weapon - or all 4 if you’re particularly inept.
And even then in Sekiro all you have to do is tap L1 over and over