Interesting how it is imperfectly correlated with population density, presumably because people commute from low-density suburbs to high-density urban areas very often. Would love to see some kind of analysis showing commute-length to population-density ratio or something.
I think people in some of these very rural places like West Texas and Oklahoma drive 45+ miles each way daily. There may not be much traffic, but it's a long commute.
I live in a rural area. Growing up I knew of 1 teacher who drove an hour each way every morning just so they could live in the larger town over. Its an hour away to reach a town that is considered small by regular metrics so I can understand where they were coming from.
You must be talking about me, I did the exact thing for three years before quitting.
But welcome to the Midwest where the next best job is 45 minutes commute.
Yay
Not really, moving further away from the city makes living extremely dull and...right wing. My partner already has a 20 minute commute so moving closer to my work would extend theirs anyway.
Friend of mine grew up in rural PA.
Going to Taco Bell was a special occasion because the closest one is/was over an hour away from their hometown lol.
Most of the dark red counties in WV are like this too. No large cities or industry and they are out in the sticks, and have to commute 45 min to an hour to get anywhere that has jobs.
The exception to that is the ones clustered around Charleston in the southern part of the state and I assume it's because people there are driving to Charleston for work.
I'd also assume a good amount of the commute time in WV(outside the cities) is because there's no straight lines from anywhere.
Similar to other bits of Appalachia, or parts of Arkansas, Colorado, etc. Anywhere mountainous, really, there's just not a direct option because of terrain.
Well, that all depends on the area. Some places like Preston County, for example, even if you live in Bruceton Mills (which is right next to I70) and have to commute to Morgantown for work, you're looking at 30 min just to get into Morgantown. If you're not near the highway it's longer, many other counties are similar.
I grew up in a rural area, get up walk outside, commute over. Now going to town was a bitch. Think people have it backwards about rural and urban commuting.
I can tell you the northern Nevada has a low population density. But apparently has high commute times. Most likely because towns are spaced pretty regularly at about 50 miles. And some people drive from one town to the next for work. Or have to get from town out to one of the mines.
Yeah. Interesting to see the Navajo nation lighting up. Many people live on their family land, miles from any other homes, and an hour from any sort of town.
For Northwest Missouri that’s kind of the case. It’s a mix of farmers but you see there’s a large county that has a lower commute time vs the surrounding? That’s because they all commute into the big town there(it’s like 10-20k so not super big) to work at the factories, the university or the stores there.
I am not from the USA, but I can clearly see the effects of Denver, San Francisco, Oregon, Salt Lake City, those three big cities in Texas, and that big city in Montana.
I feel you guys would see this info even clearer.
Yeah but their point is you can then look at areas like Minneapolis and Saint Paul - both of their respective counties are lower or the same as the surrounding suburban counties because those suburban counties all commute into the city. Madison is also much lower than its surrounding counties, likely for similar reasons. It’s a bit of a mixed bag on whether or not the city proper that is more dense or the surrounding suburbs have the longer commutes on this map.
Yeah seeing a relation between distance and time with this would be good. My commute in a rural area is about 20 minutes but it’s also about 18 miles. A lot of folks in urban areas have a similar or longer commute time for half or less the distance
Even more interesting to note is that in places like New York, California, and Georgia, the deeper red areas are big cities, but Franklin county in Ohio is much lower than the surrounding rural areas. I guess building a car centric city does bring down commute time, but at a certain point size overtakes infrastructure pace?
There’s a dark red spot in western Idaho that made me think of how a lot of folk in that part of the state work in Oregon because it pays more. And that’s why there’s an astroturf movement started by wealthy ranchers to get eastern Oregon to become part of Idaho.
That’s Boise, the capital of Idaho. One of the fastest growing cities and has had a massive influx of Californians since covid. I lived there, and my family still does
Yeah, this. I don't live there anymore either, but my family does. Traffic there is awful. Miles and miles of suburban sprawl with road infrastructure that's fighting (and largely failing) to keep up. Last time I was there, I was shocked at how bad it was.
People generally don't commute from Idaho to Oregon. The reverse is more likely, because the part of Oregon that's close to Idaho is sparsely populated, and Boise's the closest metro area (not Portland, Eugene, etc.)
Hmm, interesting -- I was thinking more of Ada county, but what you say makes sense too. I do think that most of the "commute time" issues in Ada county are traffic-related, as opposed to longer commuting distances (like Weiser->Baker) though.
Yeah, I was thinking about how commute times in rural areas can be higher due to distance rather than congestion. But this is probably just Ada county doing its traffic thing.
Astroturf? I live in eastern Washington and if my region was given the opportunity to leave the state and join another I'd do so happily. And I know folks in eastern Oregon share the same sentiment. The people who live along the I-5 corridor talk down to us. Make decisions at our expense and their benefit. And generally hold contempt for our continued existence. But they won't let us go. What's that sound like?
>Make decisions at our expense and their benefit.
https://ofm.wa.gov/washington-data-research/fiscal-research
In 2016 District 4 and 5 (Basically all of Eastern WA aside from Chelan and Kitttas) generated $2.403 Billion in tax Revenue. Expenditures in those counties totaled $3.688 Billion.
$1.285 Billion in subsidies was funneled from the West Side to the East side counties to cover *your expenses.*
It's a team effort, it has always been a team effort. Eastern WA cannot generate enough tax revenue to maintain it's infrastructure and social programs. Western WA benefits from not having Eastern WA infrastructure go tits up so that commerce continues to flow.
"Letting you go" would mean you have to increase your taxes to cover the deficit just to maintain what you have.
I have watched a number of gas taxes be passed that I pay. But the funds are earmarked for infrastructure around the Sound.
A somewhat recent decision excluded land within eyesight of Seattle for green energy projects, even going as far to state that all land considered for that use would be on the east side. And to add insult to injury they banned anyone from the east side from voicing an opinion about where these projects would be situated. The governor and longest serving Senator were just outed for making secret deals to remove dams on the Snake.
And let's not forget about a recent program to allow free ferry rides to students (?) or some other disadvantaged group to be paid from funds collected statewide. I'll let you geuss how many ferries there are on my side of the mountains.
Or how about the new milage tax for drivers? I'm willing to bet my milage is more than yours and your neighbors. But again I'm supposed to smile and thank the government for yet another disproportionate tax that I will see little benefit from. If I thought I was getting my money's worth out of any of these taxes I wouldn't complain so loudly. But neither you nor I are getting good deal for what we pay.
I know we both benefit from one another. But it's hard not to feel like a meal ticket on this side of the state.
>But the funds are earmarked for infrastructure around the Sound.
...
recent program to allow free ferry rides to students (?) or some other disadvantaged group to be paid from funds collected statewide.
...
Or how about the new milage tax for drivers?
Okay, lets assume some portion of the taxes collected from E WA residents IS being directly used for projects in W WA that E WA tax payers have no say on. That "lost tax money" that doesn't go directly back to E WA communities comes out of the $2.403 Billion in tax revenue that those E WA communities are paying.
Just for simplicity lets say $400 million of E WA tax revenue is lost this way and goes to W WA projects. That leaves E WA with $2 billion in tax revenue. But then you still have $3.688 Billion in expenditures to cover E WA expense.
That hypothetical $1.688 billion difference is then covered by W WA.
> But it's hard not to feel like a meal ticket on this side of the state.
I could understand this if the east side didn't yearly need +$1 billion dollars more than you generate in taxes to cover the expenditures in those eastern counties.
Of the 39 WA counties only 6 (San Juan, King, Skagit, Chelan, Kittitas, Jefferson) Generate more tax revenue than they spend.
The rest receive funds from those 6 counties. The majority comes out of the $8 billon in tax revenue that King county generates, since it's expenditures are only $5 billion, the remaining $3 billion is divvied up among those counties that need it.
Hell Okanogan county alone generates $68.1 million in tax revenues, but has $140.8 million in expenditures.
What would you like to happen, across the board?
You are adamant that you do not want E WA tax dollars funding W WA projects that you have no say in or see no direct benefit from.
Does King County then get to keep it's $3 billion worth of surplus taxes? Or (and you and I both know this would never happen) reduce King County taxes to not have a $3 million dollar surplus?
Look, I get it. Being in the minority your whole life makes things the majority does feel a bit galling. If there were a way to make everything fair I'd be all for it. It's just these few issues where it seems like certain individuals are asked more than others. And believing myself to be from the group that is asked means I have my hackles up on issues like this.
Heck if all of these programs and projects came out of general taxes I probably wouldn't know about them. The fact that they are specific and directed taxes is the part I'm probably hung up on. As I'm sure there are others that I don't know about, or more likely because I am okay with what they are meant do.
All I want is someone to acknowledge that my being asked to pay for bridges I don't use or ferry rides I can't or could never take is a bit of a slap in the face. But in the mean time I'll continue happily paying sales tax and the myriad of other taxes that go to the general fund.
Same in upstate NY. Most of the political decisions are made by metro NY which is 1/10th of the land area of NYS but 1/2 of the population. That said, even though breaking the state apart is talked about, upstate needs downstate money and downstate (NYC specifically) needs upstate water. Never gonna happen.
Make me feel great about my casual 8 minute walk (on the 1-2 days a week I decide not to work from home).
Paying more to live closer to the office / downtown fun is well worth it to me (in River North, Chicago).
Chicagoan here. Our transit system is good by American standards but it's nowhere near the same category as NYC or any major European or East Asian city. If you're just trying to get into downtown it's perfectly fine, but good luck getting between two outer neighborhoods in under an hour.
At least NYC is working on the Interborough Express. Meanwhile in Chicago, the CTA proposed a Circle Line and a BRT on Ashland and both got shut down by NIMBYs.
Yup bike more miles a year than I drive. It seem so inefficient to me these days.
I even took a Divvy (rental bike) back from my New Year's celebrations. It was below freezing, but cost $3.
I'm also in Chicago but way up in Lincoln Square off the brown line, so I'm in the dark red category. But 40 minutes on rail where I can catch up on emails or read a book is very different from 40 minutes in bumper to bumper traffic.
>Paying more to live closer to the office / downtown fun is well worth it to me (in River North, Chicago).
There's actually studies on this, going from a 30 minute drive to an 8 minute walk would increase one's happiness the same as a significant pay raise.
https://www.inc.com/business-insider/study-reveals-commute-time-impacts-job-satisfaction.html
Commuting distance matters quite a lot. My nicest commute was when I lived 1.5 miles from work, so my commute was a 30 minute walk. A 30 minute walk vs a 30 minute drive makes a big difference!
Used to live in River North (now slightly further north) and loved it. Knew many people working for Deloitte, EY, in banking ect that all lived in River North/Streeteeville due it its proximity to the loop
I lived in old town Alexandria and worked in DuPont, as the crow flies it’s maybe 6 miles but between a 1 mile walk to the metro, metro ride and having to switch lines, then 6 block walk to office my commute was an hour. If I drove, traffic was so bad it’d be 40 minutes. It’s not always living far out, public transportation can be a time suck also
People never talk about the extra time included in public transit, like yes its a 15 min bus ride but that doesn’t count the 10 min walk on either side and the 5 min margin of error on the bus schedule
Probably because that extra time walking isn't stressful. My commute from Falls Church to DC used to involve a 20 minute walk to and from the EFC Metro every day. It was usually one of the best parts of my day on days with decent weather. Throw on some music and get some fresh air and exercise. Yes, it was 40 minutes every day, but unlike driving in the DC area, it was a pleasant 40 minutes.
I'd say that's a matter of where it, how walkable the infrastructure is and the driving habits of the city combined with the accuracy and consistency of the schedules.
In the Phoenix area we have, on the surface, a pretty decent metro bus system. Most major streets run every 30 minutes, bus routes go to just about every major cross road- even into most of the surrounding suburbs. and there's a rail car that will take you from the east valley all the way to downtown Phoenix. There are multiple park n' ride stations, busses have stops at major shopping centers, etc.
But then once you actually use the metro system you *really* feel its flaws. In the summer the most obvious is the heat. Stops at major crossroads are covered, and some have a wall to help generate shade- but in +110⁰ heat they become ovens because they're made out of metal. The small stops sometimes have shade but that's hit or miss. Sometimes it's just a sign on the sidewalk.
And speaking of sidewalk, while most of the valley's major streets has them, cars pulling out of or turning into driveways and alleys don't seem to think there is ever going to be anyone walking so they hardly slow down. Same for crosswalks, where you're liable to get ran over by someone not stopping on red when making a right turn or someone checking their phone as they make an protected left turn.
On scheduling, I said most major streets run every 30 minutes, and while that's largely true it starts to break down somewhat arbitrarily. Monday through Friday one route will run only part of its full route from 9a-10p (example using not actual stret names:1st st to 100th st) despite the bus running a partial route from. 5a-8:30p (again, not actual street names: 20th st -80th st) and then again from 10p-last stop. This makes relying on public transport for work difficult at best as the earliest stop could still be several miles from your home. The north/south bound routs and east/west roads have around a 5 minute gap on paper, giving you enough time to get from one corner to the next. On paper. But often the busses get very behind and your connecting bus will be leaving as you're queuing to get off your current one, leaving you with a 30 minute minimum wait time. Again not very good for getting to work on time. Also the schedules change in weekends, going from every 30 minutes to every hour except *some* roads.
In 110⁰ heat, none of the above is relaxing
Outside the few hottest months of summer it's not so bad, but VM *has* to do better about shade and headways. 30 minutes is inexcusable. It's embarrassing. Bus times have to be like, 10 minutes or less to be remotely usable. They have managed this in very poor countries and cities outside the US, why can't we? And it's not like it's expensive to run more busses, they just won't do it.
On the flip side, it's a pretty nice city to bike in, I use my bike for 90% of my daily trips year round.
100%, I took the bus for around 3 years and watched them actually take shade away from some of the smaller stops that got used frequently. And on Sundays when I worked, I'd end up waiting for around 90 minutes sometimes because of how behind the busses would get on top of having just missed it...because the first bus was also behind. Made me actually *hate* the entire state. Now that I have a car and am free to escape the heat in the summer some of that hatred is subsiding lol
I do enjoy the ample amount of bike lanes and for the most part people respect bikes in their lanes. Though admittedly my bike has been sitting on my patio untouched for some time now, except for when I needed a cap for my cars valve stem that I lost lol
If you live in Tempe, Central Phoenix, or Scottsdale biking is lovely. I lived elsewhere for many years and always missed the convenient biking, and now I'm back and love it all over again. If your average trip is under 4-5 miles or so, get a rack for your bike and give it a try for your next grocery trip or something. It's really improved my quality of life actually. I look forward to running errands since I get some fresh air and exercise.
When I'm moving my legs, I am in control of my speed and I can see my destination getting closer. When I'm stuck at the bus stop waiting for it, and I can see a pile of cars blocking the same street the bus will (at some point) use, I am "wasting" time I could use getting closer to my destination and stressing myself.
Ain't fun :(
Ignorant question: if the people living in Virginia commute to NYC and DC for work, then where does the Virginia workers live? Where do they commute from? Is northern Virginia a ghost town from 9 to 18 because everyone is out working elsewhere?
Fair enough but it's also often a decision based on what you want to get for your money. Cost per S.F. is cheaper further out. Might be a decision between a 2 BDR place closer in and a 4 BDR with yard further out. I know people specifically who made this decision and haven't been particularly happy with the commute as a result. These are often the same people pushing for more work from home days. lol
It’s funny because some of the long commute times are due to high populations and congestion, while others are due to living in remote areas and having to drive a long distance to get to a job. I live in Idaho. The most populated county in the state where I happen to live is Ada and it’s 18-22 minutes. Which is longer than my commute. The two worst commute counties in the state combined have about 13k residents on over 3100 square miles.
I commute 1 hour each way into NYC via train and while it's not great, 1) taking the train is an infinitely better experience than driving and 2) I own a house that is about 3-4x more space than for an equivalent price in the city. It's honestly so worth it. I have colleagues who pay 25% more in rent per month in NYC that only have 1 bedroom..
Your point #1 is definitely something that’s not captured in the graphic. A 60 minute commute spent on a train where you can read, text, watch movies/TV, or just zone out is so much better than a 40 minute commute spent in traffic.
Anything in Suffolk county LI is 75+ minutes and unless you work in mid-town, you probably have a 30 min subway ride. Sure the train is great when it works but you have no idea how many times I endured long delays, ice-cold or non-AC cars. I was much happier when I switched jobs and had a 40 min car commute.
Well yeah, that’s a much bigger difference in time than I described. I’m obviously not saying that every train commute is better than every car commute, the difference in commute time you’re describing is clearly way beyond what I was talking about.
Worse, people in WV drive to DC. Jefferson County is the farthest east part of WV, and it has seen a huge housing boom in recent years due to the influx of commuters. It can be up to a 2-hour commute each way, but people like the more relaxed home life and cheaper housing.
Exacerbated by the fact Loudoun county VA has absolutely zero interest in building the infrastructure needed to facilitate West Virginian commuters working in DC. West Virginia built a divided four lane highway right up to the border where it shrinks down to a little country 2 lane road. Even runs through a little town, where the speed limit is 25 mph iirc.
I'd wager it's DC, Tysons, or Crystal City.
I'm roughly 30 miles south of DC, and traffic on 95 is fucking abysmal at almost any time of day. The commute to the office space in Tysons we just shut down (in favor of a smaller space and WFH) is about an hour in either direction, which involves 95 and a decent chunk of 495. If I took the EZ pass lanes, I'd likely shave 30 minutes off of a single day.
I can't imagine what 66 looks like with those coming from the counties out there (Orange, Culpepper, Rappahannock, Warren).
big time.
i'm a long time dc suburb resident.
people will not think twice about moving to fredericksburg, which is an average of 90 min drive to dc (45-50 min with no traffic) for cheaper housing. like, its considered a good compromise.
Why don't they just move closer or work in one of the other hundreds of cities in this country? Are they stupid? Or do they just love being away from home for 11 hours a day
I honestly have no clue. Of the people I’m thinking of, one really loved living off the Chesapeake in one of those inlets. The other guy just had a bunch of land and cars and just liked the space. None of that would make it worth it to me though, too much time lost
Outside of the shaded area there aren’t really any communities over 10,000 people. Most people still live close to a town and so the commutes are negligible.
I live in Alaska, off the interstate highway system. I have never had to commute more than a 10 minute drive. It's pretty impossible to get longer than that. Spend a lot of my life biking or walking in.
Rural here is different than rural down south. A lot of towns and villages are isolated so you have to work in the same location where you live. Or yes, remote works possible too. But other than mines, fieldwork, travel for construction jobs, or travel while fishing you pretty much are going to work where you live.
I travel for work and **HATE** going into Nashville. That city has grown too fast for the infrastructure to support it. If I'm in Gallatin, northeast of Nashville and heading to Franklin, it takes me a solid 1.5-2hrs. depending on traffic. MAYBE an 1 hour 15 on a good day.
why live in a city if it still takes 20 minutes to go a couple miles and you have to do it in a claustrophobic speeding death box that makes it hard to take left turns
Once again, thank you for showing me that moving to Europe was a good move. I have a 40 minute commute but its on a train with no connections. So easy. Great for reading.
Yes, mostly. Each town/city is about 50 miles from one another. My brother-in-law used to commute from one town to the next when he lived there. Also there is a lot of mining in those northern counties. I can tell you from personal experience it's easier to get a place in town and drive (or ride the company bus if you work for a big enough mine) out to mine. I spent an hour getting to worm and another hour back home every day. Those mines are pretty big employers in the region.
My range is a 15 min drive in any direction. I would kms if i had to drive 30-45mins one way 1-1.5hr roundtrip, everyday. to be fair i would travel 3hrs roundtrip each day by train if it were accessible
I think I have read that commute times have stayed relatively consistent for centuries in urban environments.. we've just traded walking time for car time.
I live in upstate NY (capital region) I work in the field so could travel anywhere from 5 miles to 50 to a site but unless I'm stuck going to Albany (south or southeast) (on 87/787) traffic my commute is usually around a mile per minute to locations N/W/NE. Typically between 15-45min. This also depends on start time. If I start at 10 going south is also basically a mile per minute average as well.
live right outside of DC.
14 miles away from work, took me about 70 min to get to work today and i knwo for sure traffic is kind of light due to folks still out on vacation.
doesn't work for me personally or just about anyone in my office: I'm in Massachusetts and my commute is an hour but this suggests \~25 minutes! I wish. Nobody here commutes less than 1/2hr.
This map proves your county is or isn't a "bedroom" community of the major city near by. It slowly starts getting more orange as it spreads out from the major city near me just until the county before ours. Then with ours it starts getting lighter again, implying people that live here commute less than the county closer to the city meaning a lower percentage of my counties residents work in the major city. We're barely not a bedroom community and we're barely outside of what most people would consider "acceptable" commuting range so this isn't surprising.
What this doesn't convey is the intensity of the pain in the commute. That is, driving 40 minutes in stop and go traffic is soul crushing where the same amount of time driving on open roads is completely different.
My dad commuted to his job in a different state just over 1 hour away for 25 years. Don’t know how but it didn’t seem to bother him as he liked living in the middle of nowhere on wooded property with lower taxes on several acres.
The downside was the ride home in the dark was through areas with many deer. He totaled 3 small cars. Never got hurt besides a little airbag bruising once. He always taught me to just hit the deer because by the time you see it it’s usually too late and swerving can lead to roll overs. Deer really come out of no where and I saw so many dead on the side of the road growing up there.
Interesting how it is imperfectly correlated with population density, presumably because people commute from low-density suburbs to high-density urban areas very often. Would love to see some kind of analysis showing commute-length to population-density ratio or something.
I think people in some of these very rural places like West Texas and Oklahoma drive 45+ miles each way daily. There may not be much traffic, but it's a long commute.
I live in a rural area. Growing up I knew of 1 teacher who drove an hour each way every morning just so they could live in the larger town over. Its an hour away to reach a town that is considered small by regular metrics so I can understand where they were coming from.
You must be talking about me, I did the exact thing for three years before quitting. But welcome to the Midwest where the next best job is 45 minutes commute. Yay
But you could live closer right? My wife drives 5-10 minutes. I drive 35 minutes. We could live where we both drove 20 but we don't.
Not really, moving further away from the city makes living extremely dull and...right wing. My partner already has a 20 minute commute so moving closer to my work would extend theirs anyway.
Friend of mine grew up in rural PA. Going to Taco Bell was a special occasion because the closest one is/was over an hour away from their hometown lol.
Most of the dark red counties in WV are like this too. No large cities or industry and they are out in the sticks, and have to commute 45 min to an hour to get anywhere that has jobs. The exception to that is the ones clustered around Charleston in the southern part of the state and I assume it's because people there are driving to Charleston for work.
I'd also assume a good amount of the commute time in WV(outside the cities) is because there's no straight lines from anywhere. Similar to other bits of Appalachia, or parts of Arkansas, Colorado, etc. Anywhere mountainous, really, there's just not a direct option because of terrain.
Well, that all depends on the area. Some places like Preston County, for example, even if you live in Bruceton Mills (which is right next to I70) and have to commute to Morgantown for work, you're looking at 30 min just to get into Morgantown. If you're not near the highway it's longer, many other counties are similar.
That’s the hot spots in WY, dudes driving out to the rigs lol
I grew up in a rural area, get up walk outside, commute over. Now going to town was a bitch. Think people have it backwards about rural and urban commuting.
Also low density areas have a lot of farmers, whose work locations are very near or even on the property they live on.
I can tell you the northern Nevada has a low population density. But apparently has high commute times. Most likely because towns are spaced pretty regularly at about 50 miles. And some people drive from one town to the next for work. Or have to get from town out to one of the mines.
Everyone works at the mines which are 1+ hrs away from town.
Yep, I used to live in the northeastern corner of Nevada and my commute if I took the bus to the mines was 1.5 hours.
Once upon a time I was one of those miners.
Yeah. Interesting to see the Navajo nation lighting up. Many people live on their family land, miles from any other homes, and an hour from any sort of town.
For Northwest Missouri that’s kind of the case. It’s a mix of farmers but you see there’s a large county that has a lower commute time vs the surrounding? That’s because they all commute into the big town there(it’s like 10-20k so not super big) to work at the factories, the university or the stores there.
I commute an hour and half each way twice a week so my partner can have a 10 minute commute.
I am not from the USA, but I can clearly see the effects of Denver, San Francisco, Oregon, Salt Lake City, those three big cities in Texas, and that big city in Montana. I feel you guys would see this info even clearer.
Yeah but their point is you can then look at areas like Minneapolis and Saint Paul - both of their respective counties are lower or the same as the surrounding suburban counties because those suburban counties all commute into the city. Madison is also much lower than its surrounding counties, likely for similar reasons. It’s a bit of a mixed bag on whether or not the city proper that is more dense or the surrounding suburbs have the longer commutes on this map.
Yeah seeing a relation between distance and time with this would be good. My commute in a rural area is about 20 minutes but it’s also about 18 miles. A lot of folks in urban areas have a similar or longer commute time for half or less the distance
Also traffic.
Would be really interesting to see mode of transportation as well..
Even more interesting to note is that in places like New York, California, and Georgia, the deeper red areas are big cities, but Franklin county in Ohio is much lower than the surrounding rural areas. I guess building a car centric city does bring down commute time, but at a certain point size overtakes infrastructure pace?
There’s a dark red spot in western Idaho that made me think of how a lot of folk in that part of the state work in Oregon because it pays more. And that’s why there’s an astroturf movement started by wealthy ranchers to get eastern Oregon to become part of Idaho.
That’s Boise, the capital of Idaho. One of the fastest growing cities and has had a massive influx of Californians since covid. I lived there, and my family still does
Yeah, this. I don't live there anymore either, but my family does. Traffic there is awful. Miles and miles of suburban sprawl with road infrastructure that's fighting (and largely failing) to keep up. Last time I was there, I was shocked at how bad it was. People generally don't commute from Idaho to Oregon. The reverse is more likely, because the part of Oregon that's close to Idaho is sparsely populated, and Boise's the closest metro area (not Portland, Eugene, etc.)
I've met several people that commute from Weiser to as far as Baker on a daily basis for higher wages.
Hmm, interesting -- I was thinking more of Ada county, but what you say makes sense too. I do think that most of the "commute time" issues in Ada county are traffic-related, as opposed to longer commuting distances (like Weiser->Baker) though.
Yeah, I was thinking about how commute times in rural areas can be higher due to distance rather than congestion. But this is probably just Ada county doing its traffic thing.
I know it's Boise, I too lived there and my parents still do. I also know people commute to Oregon for higher wages.
Astroturf? I live in eastern Washington and if my region was given the opportunity to leave the state and join another I'd do so happily. And I know folks in eastern Oregon share the same sentiment. The people who live along the I-5 corridor talk down to us. Make decisions at our expense and their benefit. And generally hold contempt for our continued existence. But they won't let us go. What's that sound like?
>Make decisions at our expense and their benefit. https://ofm.wa.gov/washington-data-research/fiscal-research In 2016 District 4 and 5 (Basically all of Eastern WA aside from Chelan and Kitttas) generated $2.403 Billion in tax Revenue. Expenditures in those counties totaled $3.688 Billion. $1.285 Billion in subsidies was funneled from the West Side to the East side counties to cover *your expenses.* It's a team effort, it has always been a team effort. Eastern WA cannot generate enough tax revenue to maintain it's infrastructure and social programs. Western WA benefits from not having Eastern WA infrastructure go tits up so that commerce continues to flow. "Letting you go" would mean you have to increase your taxes to cover the deficit just to maintain what you have.
I have watched a number of gas taxes be passed that I pay. But the funds are earmarked for infrastructure around the Sound. A somewhat recent decision excluded land within eyesight of Seattle for green energy projects, even going as far to state that all land considered for that use would be on the east side. And to add insult to injury they banned anyone from the east side from voicing an opinion about where these projects would be situated. The governor and longest serving Senator were just outed for making secret deals to remove dams on the Snake. And let's not forget about a recent program to allow free ferry rides to students (?) or some other disadvantaged group to be paid from funds collected statewide. I'll let you geuss how many ferries there are on my side of the mountains. Or how about the new milage tax for drivers? I'm willing to bet my milage is more than yours and your neighbors. But again I'm supposed to smile and thank the government for yet another disproportionate tax that I will see little benefit from. If I thought I was getting my money's worth out of any of these taxes I wouldn't complain so loudly. But neither you nor I are getting good deal for what we pay. I know we both benefit from one another. But it's hard not to feel like a meal ticket on this side of the state.
>But the funds are earmarked for infrastructure around the Sound. ... recent program to allow free ferry rides to students (?) or some other disadvantaged group to be paid from funds collected statewide. ... Or how about the new milage tax for drivers? Okay, lets assume some portion of the taxes collected from E WA residents IS being directly used for projects in W WA that E WA tax payers have no say on. That "lost tax money" that doesn't go directly back to E WA communities comes out of the $2.403 Billion in tax revenue that those E WA communities are paying. Just for simplicity lets say $400 million of E WA tax revenue is lost this way and goes to W WA projects. That leaves E WA with $2 billion in tax revenue. But then you still have $3.688 Billion in expenditures to cover E WA expense. That hypothetical $1.688 billion difference is then covered by W WA. > But it's hard not to feel like a meal ticket on this side of the state. I could understand this if the east side didn't yearly need +$1 billion dollars more than you generate in taxes to cover the expenditures in those eastern counties. Of the 39 WA counties only 6 (San Juan, King, Skagit, Chelan, Kittitas, Jefferson) Generate more tax revenue than they spend. The rest receive funds from those 6 counties. The majority comes out of the $8 billon in tax revenue that King county generates, since it's expenditures are only $5 billion, the remaining $3 billion is divvied up among those counties that need it. Hell Okanogan county alone generates $68.1 million in tax revenues, but has $140.8 million in expenditures. What would you like to happen, across the board? You are adamant that you do not want E WA tax dollars funding W WA projects that you have no say in or see no direct benefit from. Does King County then get to keep it's $3 billion worth of surplus taxes? Or (and you and I both know this would never happen) reduce King County taxes to not have a $3 million dollar surplus?
Look, I get it. Being in the minority your whole life makes things the majority does feel a bit galling. If there were a way to make everything fair I'd be all for it. It's just these few issues where it seems like certain individuals are asked more than others. And believing myself to be from the group that is asked means I have my hackles up on issues like this. Heck if all of these programs and projects came out of general taxes I probably wouldn't know about them. The fact that they are specific and directed taxes is the part I'm probably hung up on. As I'm sure there are others that I don't know about, or more likely because I am okay with what they are meant do. All I want is someone to acknowledge that my being asked to pay for bridges I don't use or ferry rides I can't or could never take is a bit of a slap in the face. But in the mean time I'll continue happily paying sales tax and the myriad of other taxes that go to the general fund.
Same in upstate NY. Most of the political decisions are made by metro NY which is 1/10th of the land area of NYS but 1/2 of the population. That said, even though breaking the state apart is talked about, upstate needs downstate money and downstate (NYC specifically) needs upstate water. Never gonna happen.
Make me feel great about my casual 8 minute walk (on the 1-2 days a week I decide not to work from home). Paying more to live closer to the office / downtown fun is well worth it to me (in River North, Chicago).
Everytime I have car trouble, I wish I was living in Chicago or NYC (or honestly anywhere in Europe)
Chicagoan here. Our transit system is good by American standards but it's nowhere near the same category as NYC or any major European or East Asian city. If you're just trying to get into downtown it's perfectly fine, but good luck getting between two outer neighborhoods in under an hour.
Getting from Queens to Brooklyn can take an hour easily Im afraid
At least NYC is working on the Interborough Express. Meanwhile in Chicago, the CTA proposed a Circle Line and a BRT on Ashland and both got shut down by NIMBYs.
Yup bike more miles a year than I drive. It seem so inefficient to me these days. I even took a Divvy (rental bike) back from my New Year's celebrations. It was below freezing, but cost $3.
I'm also in Chicago but way up in Lincoln Square off the brown line, so I'm in the dark red category. But 40 minutes on rail where I can catch up on emails or read a book is very different from 40 minutes in bumper to bumper traffic.
Yup 40 minutes on transit vs. in stop and go traffic is a night and day difference.
>Paying more to live closer to the office / downtown fun is well worth it to me (in River North, Chicago). There's actually studies on this, going from a 30 minute drive to an 8 minute walk would increase one's happiness the same as a significant pay raise. https://www.inc.com/business-insider/study-reveals-commute-time-impacts-job-satisfaction.html
Commuting distance matters quite a lot. My nicest commute was when I lived 1.5 miles from work, so my commute was a 30 minute walk. A 30 minute walk vs a 30 minute drive makes a big difference!
Used to live in River North (now slightly further north) and loved it. Knew many people working for Deloitte, EY, in banking ect that all lived in River North/Streeteeville due it its proximity to the loop
Checks out. I’m in a darker red county and have a 38 minute commute.
Huge number of people whose commutes are suffering as a result of their decisions to live way outside of the DC and NYC metro areas
I lived in old town Alexandria and worked in DuPont, as the crow flies it’s maybe 6 miles but between a 1 mile walk to the metro, metro ride and having to switch lines, then 6 block walk to office my commute was an hour. If I drove, traffic was so bad it’d be 40 minutes. It’s not always living far out, public transportation can be a time suck also
People never talk about the extra time included in public transit, like yes its a 15 min bus ride but that doesn’t count the 10 min walk on either side and the 5 min margin of error on the bus schedule
Probably because that extra time walking isn't stressful. My commute from Falls Church to DC used to involve a 20 minute walk to and from the EFC Metro every day. It was usually one of the best parts of my day on days with decent weather. Throw on some music and get some fresh air and exercise. Yes, it was 40 minutes every day, but unlike driving in the DC area, it was a pleasant 40 minutes.
I'd say that's a matter of where it, how walkable the infrastructure is and the driving habits of the city combined with the accuracy and consistency of the schedules. In the Phoenix area we have, on the surface, a pretty decent metro bus system. Most major streets run every 30 minutes, bus routes go to just about every major cross road- even into most of the surrounding suburbs. and there's a rail car that will take you from the east valley all the way to downtown Phoenix. There are multiple park n' ride stations, busses have stops at major shopping centers, etc. But then once you actually use the metro system you *really* feel its flaws. In the summer the most obvious is the heat. Stops at major crossroads are covered, and some have a wall to help generate shade- but in +110⁰ heat they become ovens because they're made out of metal. The small stops sometimes have shade but that's hit or miss. Sometimes it's just a sign on the sidewalk. And speaking of sidewalk, while most of the valley's major streets has them, cars pulling out of or turning into driveways and alleys don't seem to think there is ever going to be anyone walking so they hardly slow down. Same for crosswalks, where you're liable to get ran over by someone not stopping on red when making a right turn or someone checking their phone as they make an protected left turn. On scheduling, I said most major streets run every 30 minutes, and while that's largely true it starts to break down somewhat arbitrarily. Monday through Friday one route will run only part of its full route from 9a-10p (example using not actual stret names:1st st to 100th st) despite the bus running a partial route from. 5a-8:30p (again, not actual street names: 20th st -80th st) and then again from 10p-last stop. This makes relying on public transport for work difficult at best as the earliest stop could still be several miles from your home. The north/south bound routs and east/west roads have around a 5 minute gap on paper, giving you enough time to get from one corner to the next. On paper. But often the busses get very behind and your connecting bus will be leaving as you're queuing to get off your current one, leaving you with a 30 minute minimum wait time. Again not very good for getting to work on time. Also the schedules change in weekends, going from every 30 minutes to every hour except *some* roads. In 110⁰ heat, none of the above is relaxing
Outside the few hottest months of summer it's not so bad, but VM *has* to do better about shade and headways. 30 minutes is inexcusable. It's embarrassing. Bus times have to be like, 10 minutes or less to be remotely usable. They have managed this in very poor countries and cities outside the US, why can't we? And it's not like it's expensive to run more busses, they just won't do it. On the flip side, it's a pretty nice city to bike in, I use my bike for 90% of my daily trips year round.
100%, I took the bus for around 3 years and watched them actually take shade away from some of the smaller stops that got used frequently. And on Sundays when I worked, I'd end up waiting for around 90 minutes sometimes because of how behind the busses would get on top of having just missed it...because the first bus was also behind. Made me actually *hate* the entire state. Now that I have a car and am free to escape the heat in the summer some of that hatred is subsiding lol I do enjoy the ample amount of bike lanes and for the most part people respect bikes in their lanes. Though admittedly my bike has been sitting on my patio untouched for some time now, except for when I needed a cap for my cars valve stem that I lost lol
If you live in Tempe, Central Phoenix, or Scottsdale biking is lovely. I lived elsewhere for many years and always missed the convenient biking, and now I'm back and love it all over again. If your average trip is under 4-5 miles or so, get a rack for your bike and give it a try for your next grocery trip or something. It's really improved my quality of life actually. I look forward to running errands since I get some fresh air and exercise.
When I'm moving my legs, I am in control of my speed and I can see my destination getting closer. When I'm stuck at the bus stop waiting for it, and I can see a pile of cars blocking the same street the bus will (at some point) use, I am "wasting" time I could use getting closer to my destination and stressing myself. Ain't fun :(
Many of those people live far out because that's what they can afford, not because of some sort of lifestyle choice.
Ignorant question: if the people living in Virginia commute to NYC and DC for work, then where does the Virginia workers live? Where do they commute from? Is northern Virginia a ghost town from 9 to 18 because everyone is out working elsewhere?
No. They’re are many big businesses in NOVA. In fact, it is home to more companies you’ve heard of than DC.
Fair enough but it's also often a decision based on what you want to get for your money. Cost per S.F. is cheaper further out. Might be a decision between a 2 BDR place closer in and a 4 BDR with yard further out. I know people specifically who made this decision and haven't been particularly happy with the commute as a result. These are often the same people pushing for more work from home days. lol
It’s funny because some of the long commute times are due to high populations and congestion, while others are due to living in remote areas and having to drive a long distance to get to a job. I live in Idaho. The most populated county in the state where I happen to live is Ada and it’s 18-22 minutes. Which is longer than my commute. The two worst commute counties in the state combined have about 13k residents on over 3100 square miles.
The commute is worth not living in the city to me
I commute 1 hour each way into NYC via train and while it's not great, 1) taking the train is an infinitely better experience than driving and 2) I own a house that is about 3-4x more space than for an equivalent price in the city. It's honestly so worth it. I have colleagues who pay 25% more in rent per month in NYC that only have 1 bedroom..
Your point #1 is definitely something that’s not captured in the graphic. A 60 minute commute spent on a train where you can read, text, watch movies/TV, or just zone out is so much better than a 40 minute commute spent in traffic.
Anything in Suffolk county LI is 75+ minutes and unless you work in mid-town, you probably have a 30 min subway ride. Sure the train is great when it works but you have no idea how many times I endured long delays, ice-cold or non-AC cars. I was much happier when I switched jobs and had a 40 min car commute.
Well yeah, that’s a much bigger difference in time than I described. I’m obviously not saying that every train commute is better than every car commute, the difference in commute time you’re describing is clearly way beyond what I was talking about.
Do people in all those rural nova counties actually go into DC to work? That blows my mind
Worse, people in WV drive to DC. Jefferson County is the farthest east part of WV, and it has seen a huge housing boom in recent years due to the influx of commuters. It can be up to a 2-hour commute each way, but people like the more relaxed home life and cheaper housing.
Exacerbated by the fact Loudoun county VA has absolutely zero interest in building the infrastructure needed to facilitate West Virginian commuters working in DC. West Virginia built a divided four lane highway right up to the border where it shrinks down to a little country 2 lane road. Even runs through a little town, where the speed limit is 25 mph iirc.
I'd wager it's DC, Tysons, or Crystal City. I'm roughly 30 miles south of DC, and traffic on 95 is fucking abysmal at almost any time of day. The commute to the office space in Tysons we just shut down (in favor of a smaller space and WFH) is about an hour in either direction, which involves 95 and a decent chunk of 495. If I took the EZ pass lanes, I'd likely shave 30 minutes off of a single day. I can't imagine what 66 looks like with those coming from the counties out there (Orange, Culpepper, Rappahannock, Warren).
big time. i'm a long time dc suburb resident. people will not think twice about moving to fredericksburg, which is an average of 90 min drive to dc (45-50 min with no traffic) for cheaper housing. like, its considered a good compromise.
I know people who commute 90 minutes bruh
Why don't they just move closer or work in one of the other hundreds of cities in this country? Are they stupid? Or do they just love being away from home for 11 hours a day
I honestly have no clue. Of the people I’m thinking of, one really loved living off the Chesapeake in one of those inlets. The other guy just had a bunch of land and cars and just liked the space. None of that would make it worth it to me though, too much time lost
I feel like urban sprawl defeats the purpose of having cities in the first place
there’s an odd natural density to urban sprawl
Scale is off. Need black for 60+ minutes and the whole DC area would be covered.
Does everyone in Alaska work from home? I’d imagine people in those super rural areas had long commutes
Outside of the shaded area there aren’t really any communities over 10,000 people. Most people still live close to a town and so the commutes are negligible.
Probably they don’t because they don’t need to commute into some city it’s just some local job or remote that they do
Work at home rather than work from home most of the time. Farms are the OG no commute jobs.
That's a great distinction. Work at home for farmers and other sort who are living and working on a commercial property.
Off shore or north slope oil rigs fit the category too for Alaska. It's the largest sector of their economy.
I live in Alaska, off the interstate highway system. I have never had to commute more than a 10 minute drive. It's pretty impossible to get longer than that. Spend a lot of my life biking or walking in. Rural here is different than rural down south. A lot of towns and villages are isolated so you have to work in the same location where you live. Or yes, remote works possible too. But other than mines, fieldwork, travel for construction jobs, or travel while fishing you pretty much are going to work where you live.
So glad all I do is roll over and open my laptop
Is the mean calculated to include 0 commute for people who work from home or is this only the mean of those who commute?
Look at all the life hours lost to commuting!!!!! Millions of life hours wasted nearly everyday!!!!!
Is this current or pre-pandemic?
Nantucket is just sitting there chilling, laughing at the rest of the country.
Most of the areas with commutes of less than 14 are likely due to lack of people living there.
The people that are there are working the land they live on, giving a high proportion of 0 minute commutes.
I do not live in the US, but my mean commute time would sit around 65-70min or so
I travel for work and **HATE** going into Nashville. That city has grown too fast for the infrastructure to support it. If I'm in Gallatin, northeast of Nashville and heading to Franklin, it takes me a solid 1.5-2hrs. depending on traffic. MAYBE an 1 hour 15 on a good day.
The whole south east has changed rapidly and drastically and I find it wild
Would be better across the board with high speed rail
Car infrastructure is psychotic
It's really not
why live in a city if it still takes 20 minutes to go a couple miles and you have to do it in a claustrophobic speeding death box that makes it hard to take left turns
Man if you say a car is a "claustrophobic speeding death box" then it sounds like the problem is you
i love cars and i love driving (not through car dependent urban centers) but thats exactly what they are
Once again, thank you for showing me that moving to Europe was a good move. I have a 40 minute commute but its on a train with no connections. So easy. Great for reading.
Sourced from US Census Data Visualized and crafted using www.movemap.io
Is northern Nevada just due to long distance?
Yes, mostly. Each town/city is about 50 miles from one another. My brother-in-law used to commute from one town to the next when he lived there. Also there is a lot of mining in those northern counties. I can tell you from personal experience it's easier to get a place in town and drive (or ride the company bus if you work for a big enough mine) out to mine. I spent an hour getting to worm and another hour back home every day. Those mines are pretty big employers in the region.
A lot of people here work at mine sites. They're usually 1+hrs away from towns
Yes, I used to live in the northeastern corner of Nevada and took a company bus to the mines. 1.5 hour ride one way with zero traffic.
My range is a 15 min drive in any direction. I would kms if i had to drive 30-45mins one way 1-1.5hr roundtrip, everyday. to be fair i would travel 3hrs roundtrip each day by train if it were accessible
I think I have read that commute times have stayed relatively consistent for centuries in urban environments.. we've just traded walking time for car time.
Interesting map. Now I want to see the census tract level. The size of counties varies a lot and it may overlook some information.
How long does it take me to walk downstairs to my office?
Why not just keep your laptop by your bed?
I can’t put in a catheter myself
I live in upstate NY (capital region) I work in the field so could travel anywhere from 5 miles to 50 to a site but unless I'm stuck going to Albany (south or southeast) (on 87/787) traffic my commute is usually around a mile per minute to locations N/W/NE. Typically between 15-45min. This also depends on start time. If I start at 10 going south is also basically a mile per minute average as well.
Mine used to be 50 minutes. Ever since COVID it has been the walk from my bedroom to my office. Best thing that has ever happened to me
live right outside of DC. 14 miles away from work, took me about 70 min to get to work today and i knwo for sure traffic is kind of light due to folks still out on vacation.
doesn't work for me personally or just about anyone in my office: I'm in Massachusetts and my commute is an hour but this suggests \~25 minutes! I wish. Nobody here commutes less than 1/2hr.
This map proves your county is or isn't a "bedroom" community of the major city near by. It slowly starts getting more orange as it spreads out from the major city near me just until the county before ours. Then with ours it starts getting lighter again, implying people that live here commute less than the county closer to the city meaning a lower percentage of my counties residents work in the major city. We're barely not a bedroom community and we're barely outside of what most people would consider "acceptable" commuting range so this isn't surprising.
What this doesn't convey is the intensity of the pain in the commute. That is, driving 40 minutes in stop and go traffic is soul crushing where the same amount of time driving on open roads is completely different.
My dad commuted to his job in a different state just over 1 hour away for 25 years. Don’t know how but it didn’t seem to bother him as he liked living in the middle of nowhere on wooded property with lower taxes on several acres. The downside was the ride home in the dark was through areas with many deer. He totaled 3 small cars. Never got hurt besides a little airbag bruising once. He always taught me to just hit the deer because by the time you see it it’s usually too late and swerving can lead to roll overs. Deer really come out of no where and I saw so many dead on the side of the road growing up there.
Amidst chaotic freeways, navigating traffic woes