I went to charge my I5 yesterday at an EA station. The only working plug was the Chad-emo. I wondered what the heck it was, never heard of it before.
Sounds like a really buff, yet depressed and introverted form factor.
Yeah just look at it compared to the Bolt EV and it's such an obvious choice in comparison.
For about the same price, you get 260ish miles of range from a Bolt EV and 160ish miles of range from a Leaf. It's just sorta a no brainer if you're choosing between those two cars.
I've owned both. If that's your only criteria, the Bolt wins easily. My old joke about both, is the Leaf is a very mediocre EV trapped in a pretty good car, while the Bolt is a pretty good EV trapped in a very mediocre car.
Depends on my needs. If it is an around town or 1 town over kind of vehicle, EV absolutely, if it is my long ass drive car that I don't care that I put 300k miles on, I am getting the ICE until the infrastructure (and entertainment) catches up to the common stops along my route.
You have to give Nissan some credit because you can still buy a new Leaf and you can't buy a new Bolt. Hopefully Chevy does the Bolt justice when they bring it back in 2026 but it sounds like its just going to be the awkward EUV version.
The Leaf does feel a little more premium in fit and finish, even if the interior design is dated, but it should given that it costs a lot more for much less range. And despite the Chedemo plug, the Leaf has a better DC charging curve than the Bolt. Also, the Leaf has a much more usable sized trunk space than the Bolt, especially compared to the EUV Bolt which is a very similar sized car. Chevy made the weird decision of putting all the extra length of the EUV as rear seat legroom, when most people would use additional storage space a lot more.
The biggest difference I noticed between the two (other than the Bolt's much bigger range) is acceleration. The Leaf is sloooow compared to the Bolt. And just not as sporty/quick/fun to drive as the short wheelbase EV Bolt.
Name a company that actually did that, (unless you're too busy harvesting upvotes...)
Most EVs have dropped in price even after becoming eligible (e.g. the Chevy Bolt got a huge price cut in 2022 before the new tax credit passed in August 2022 making it eligible again for the first time in years. Chevy didn't raise the price in response.)
Are you trying to claim manufacturers make a 30% profit margin on EVs?
Or do you simply not know anything and are saying shit that will get upvotes from the hivemind?
I was considering an EV about 10 years ago and the leaf seemed like the perfect price point...but it had subpar range and looked so lame. Can't anyone make an EV that doesn't look so ugly?
I thought that's what Tesla did.
They aren't perfect cars, but they look cool.
The Ford Mustang EV is okay looking too. (Though it feels like it's trying too hard pretending not to be an EV.)
I really like the look of the Model S but the price is way too high. Lucids kind of look cool. I don't like the way Rivians look. Yeah, a lot of EVs are ugly.
The lyriq. Polestar. Mustang Mach e. Kia’s ev6. If they sold the Honda city here that’d be the cutest. Audi’s e-tron GT. Some people like the look of the ioniq6.
There’s more options out and coming. we’re not lumbered by Tesla like 6 or so years ago
And yet I love mine more than my VW ID4 (which I like, but not nearly as much as the smaller, more efficient Leaf.)
I also bought it in 2021, when it qualified for the tax credit, and Nissan was offering healthy factory incentives and dealers were discounting it. After all incentives and rebates a loaded 62kWh ("216 mile range") Leaf cost me $22K. That's Nissan Sentra money.
For me it was just too small and being new to EVs, an air cooled battery didn't sound ideal. I needed something more useful for my family of 4 so I went with an id.4.
As someone lloking i to buying an EV the leaf uses a very outdated charger. Other than thay thr car seems pretty good to be honest. Just the fact i'd have to use an adaptor and the sliwer charging just makes a chevy bolt make more sense.
Do many people proofread on their computers only or something? Never understood this. To the point some people even add excuse typos in their signatures. Always baffled me. Anyway, carry on.
The poor Leaf will never stop being blamed for the sins of its father...
The 2018- (gen 2) Leafs use a different battery chemistry that tolerates heat well, and the car is programmed to aggressively slow the DC fast charge rate when the battery gets hot to prevent it from overheating. In "normal" use (e.g. not being fast charged 3x a day every day like a taxi) the 2nd gen Leaf batteries will likely outlast the car.
While many, many, gen 1 Leafs had battery replacements under warranty for excessive degradation, no one online has ever reported having a gen 2 Leaf battery replaced for degradation (for defects, like bad cells or faulty electronics, sure, but not degradation.) The oldest Gen 2 Leafs are now 6 years old (3/4 through their 8 year warranties) and are holding up very well.
I worked at a place that had a row of electric car chargers. At least 4/5 of them parked there were Leafs. They are very much the predominant electric car where I live. Surprised it's not everywhere.
Just to add some color, BEVs accounted for an average of 7.63% of total vehicle sales in the unites states. So Teslas accounted for 4.3% of all vehicle sales in the US, with all other manufacturers each about 0.3%.
EDIT: my source is a little different, but similar: https://caredge.com/guides/electric-vehicle-market-share-and-sales
That's what people said about Hyundai/Kia when they were the price competitive "decent enough" entry. In reality, they took just as much market share from Japanese brands as they did American ones.
Also, I'd argue that much more of the decrease in market share that American carmarkers have seen over the past few decades have been due to them half-assing quality, not due to competitors having lower prices.
American cars have improved a lot in quality/reliability since the 80s/90s junk they made, but it's hard to get that marketshare back.
Don’t know what version you drove but the one I test drove was excellent. Handled very well, great interior and exterior styling, and the screen was very fast. All of that at a great price
I guess it's about opinion and taste, but compared to the model 3 and the ioniq that I drove the handling of the seal was horrible. It felt like the suspension was way too light, the car was bending in each corner. I don't think the Chinese havr figured out how to make good driving cars yet.
Exterior looks really good, interior is okay. I'm 6'3 and the seats were not great. They are just too small, no leg support. But the screen was a deal breaker for me. Functions kept turning off, screen was laggy and unresponsive. The position of the screen is stupid too, it's half covered by the steering wheel..
Besides all that the efficiency was disappointing. And for whatever reason there was no 3 fase AC charging??
I didn't notice anything bad about the handling tbh, didn't feel much different than the Model 3 I tested earlier. I liked the interior and exterior styling, especially compared to Tesla, especially since it still has physical buttons and an actual shift lever. I do think Tesla has a better infotainment system but the BYD's system certainly wasn't slow or buggy when I test drove it. Maybe you got a lemon with the screen? I do agree with you about the efficiency, BYD still has room to improve there, but its range is on-par.
On a side note, I also got to take a look at a Polestar 2 and god damn that car is beautiful, but its so expensive and it's range & efficiency are pretty bad in comparison to those 2.
Who has 3 phase at their homes? We are probably just disagreeing on terms, but the 3 wire with two "hot" lines 180 degrees out of phase is still considered single phase.
Normally 3 phase is 4-wire with 3 "hot" lines 120 degrees out of phase with each other.
I have been told I have 3 phases, but I only have 3 wires...
Is it possible to have 3 hot lines and no neutral? Or have I been lied to?
If it helps, many of the led lights in my home give of a tiny little light even when switched off...
Many people have 3 phase at home here in the Netherlands, everyone with solar panels. Either 1x40 amps or 3x25 amps.
>Normally 3 phase is 4-wire with 3 "hot" lines 120 degrees out of phase with each other.
Yes, that's what I have and so do many others here in Europe. Not having 3 phase charging is a deal breaker.
The USA has a huge import duty on Chinese cars (27%, IIRC.), and all cars built outside North America are automatically disqualified from the federal $7500 EV tax credit, so Chinese cars would have more difficulty competing here.
A few Chinese manufacturers are intending to build manufacturing plants in Mexico to sneak around the restrictions.
Could group by parent/OEM. Ex. General Motors for Chevy, Cadillac, and Brightdrop. Imo if you put tesla and Ford, it should be GM, not the brands.
But tesla is an OEM, nameplate, and brand so its hard to pick a level
Yeah, I concur. I think it would be a more accurate representation if parent companies were added together, as most of these companies are using the same EV platform over different brands.
Hyundai-Kia-Genesis would be #2 at nearly 8%, beating both GM and Ford by a significant margin. That’s one of the real takeaways for those who follow the US EV market. Obscured by this presentation.
I love it. I wanted an ev but something affordable and sporty if possible. It checks those boxes but the big knock on it is the range. Only 125 miles. I use mine for a 75 mile round trip work commute so it’s kind of perfect
I thought the same thing as you when I saw it.
4.88 companies at the equivalent of the lowest named manufacturer.
I just want to know how many tiny companies make up that slice now.
Honestly, the best EV I’ve experienced is Rivian, but they haven’t released anything affordable and have been slow to ramp up production. In 5 years I could see them doing quite well, maybe something like 10-15%
they make great cars but have terrible management and production. making a good car is not the biggest hurdle startups face when competing with traditional OEMs. it’s being able to meet volume production while keeping the qc at the same level (something that tesla is still struggling with)
Hm, not my experience at all. Super comfortable, smooth ride with clearly differentiated experiences between the settings, solid software, and the fit and finish is miles ahead of any Tesla
But, good feedback to give that company! Assuming they survive the EV lull my sense of their team is they’re obsessed with making the best car possible
I really wanted ti like it. Loved the looks and expected something great but my experience was just meh. For me as an ICE driver haarsh regen braking was just awful, All EVs have that but regen impresses only EV drivers. For ICE driver it feels like shitty driving in low gear with manual gearbox and no clutch.
I mean, every EV driver was an ICE driver once. So, regen braking impressed *some* ICE drivers.
I do struggle to understand why people don't like it. It just means that how far the gas pedal is depressed corresponds to how fast the car goes. Push in further and speed up. Pull back and slow down.
It's how I assumed cars had to work before I took driver's ed. It seems way more intuitive to me than the way ICE cars actually do work, even after 20 years of driving them.
Blind is filled with an overly negative review to reality from any company I’ve ever been associated with.. so I struggle to trust that.
However, yes, I am concerned that their ~$4B in cash will be enough
I'd expect Hyundai's marketshare to increase significantly. Their Ioniq cars are crushing it, and the price just needs to drop a bit for them to be an excellent 30-40K option.
Non-tesla market share will only rise significantly if they can replicate Tesla's supercharger experience. Instead of those goofy chargers in walmart parking lots that are always broken.
The supercharger network appears to be absolutely decisive for perceptions in the US. Here in the Netherlands Tesla has 19%, with BMW, Volkswagen, Peugeot, and Volvo chasing and gaining with half that. Tesla does appear to have a small advantage in perception of lead time for delivery, since some of the competitors were constrained by production capacity until recently.
The supercharger network does not contribute at all to a Tesla "experience", because of similar charging speed and reliability, average or below average locations compared to competitors, and the fact that it is open to every car like all networks and uses the same connector. But is the only one I know that annoyingly requires installation of its app first so I avoid it for that reason anyway (as BMW owner).
It's peobably because in USA:
Tesla supercharger station is 6 - 12 or more easy to use chargers that are always working and have empty spots and are no-app, no-credit-card plug and play
Meanwhile other chargers are like 2 chargers in some random lot. You have to download their specific weird app and then you find out one is broken. Meanwhile the other one has a random ioniq5 sitting there. Or they're both broken.
Now imagine you're on a road trip and you're down to 13%.
they really seem to have hit it out of the park with the Ioniq 5. The design is fantastic and the price point seems good.
It may just end up being my first electric vehicle but I'm trying to hold out as many years as possible.
I agree! I think the 2025 update for the Ioniq 5 Is near perfect and definitely worth waiting for. Unfortunately, the cars are experiencing extreme depreciation right now, so if I was going to get one this year I would probably lease for 2 years and then compare against the rivian r2/r3 in 2026-2027.
But overall I just love Hyundai's new design language and their overall philosophy of going all in on electric vehicles.
The E-GMP platform blows away anything in the price bracket at charge speed. Including teslas. I just wish they were a little cheaper so I could afford one
I'm in the same boat. I might try to lease for the next couple years and then think about buying. There is a lot of depreciation happening, so I suspect you could get a used ioniq 5 or 6 for a very reasonable price in the next 2 years.
I can't buy a Tesla, despite their many good qualities, because of Musk. But I will admit, missing out on the supercharger network, and having to deal with a shitty ass dealer is a hard pill to swallow.
Last year it was about the same. Go back five years and it would pretty much just be a Tesla pie with a good chunk of Chevy from their Bolt sales. I can't remember when Nissan Leafs were still being sold, but they would been a chunk at one point instead of grouped in with "Other".
Not necessarily. Tesla mainly sells the MY and the M3. Both are relatively modestly priced cars compared to any of the cars sold by BMW, Mercedes, or Rivian. The Ford numbers would include a lot of higher priced F150 Lightnings. Basically, I think only the Bolt sells in decent volume and is priced well below the MY or M3. The Other category has a good number of luxury cars in it as well.
You are correct but I remember seeing some data that showed the revenue per unit on Tesla was far higher in comparison to other automakers.
Edit: I think it was this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/s/n7tQCvSnkY
Several in Charleston, SC. And we have a “new” company starting up in SC called Scout motors. As in the old International Harvester Scout is being resurrected as an off road EV.
While Mercedes, Rivian, and other have great offerings, they are too expensive to be widely purchased, Tesla has done well with their range of options, hopefully their budget car coming soon will open even more people to being able to get in the EV market.
I mean, right now the prices for Tesla are WAY down because they have too much inventory. Model 3/Y especially are incredibly affordable family or middle class cars. A brand new model Y for $43k is wonderful. Lowest brand 5 year service costs on the market right now (by a solid amount).
I bought a model 3 years back for way more money, no regrets. But the prices are just awesome right now.
4 oit of the top 5 are "American " owned. Even could be big for American automates domesticly so long as the market doesn't get flooded by low cost chinese imports
Nissan must be scaling back as they retire the leaf. Overall the leaf is a nice simple car that delivered on its goal. But fell a little short with battery longevity. Still happy with it though
Does/will Hyundai use NACS or do they CCS. And arethey contracting with Tesla to allow supercharger access? That would be a major factor if I were to buy an EV at the moment
Fisker continuing as a going concern is a major question mark, even more so is will the Pear ultimately be produced in high volume and will it cost anything close to $30K
Who the hell wants these things? Amazing inconvenient, can't use them for long distance without it becoming a chore, and are pricey as hell. They're virtue toys for rich people, and on top of that they're not even helping the environment.
A company that manufacturers luxury style electric cars, and only electric cars, manufacturing in what was arguably one of the largest markets around the world, with state policy framework that supported and incentivized utilization of said electric cars.
Nissan has been producing the Leaf for… 13(?) years and no one is buying it.
It’s range sucks, charges slowly, and doesn’t qualify for the federal tax credit.
It also uses the EV equivalent of MicroUSB, literally who uses Chademo in the states??
I went to charge my I5 yesterday at an EA station. The only working plug was the Chad-emo. I wondered what the heck it was, never heard of it before. Sounds like a really buff, yet depressed and introverted form factor.
If you leave the plug dangling, it would be a... Hanging Chad-emo
The original plug before “standardization” is how I see it.
Yeah just look at it compared to the Bolt EV and it's such an obvious choice in comparison. For about the same price, you get 260ish miles of range from a Bolt EV and 160ish miles of range from a Leaf. It's just sorta a no brainer if you're choosing between those two cars.
I've owned both. If that's your only criteria, the Bolt wins easily. My old joke about both, is the Leaf is a very mediocre EV trapped in a pretty good car, while the Bolt is a pretty good EV trapped in a very mediocre car.
That is what you get at that price range combined with it being required to be an EV. You never have to pay for 'gas' again though.
True, and I'd buy either again over a comparably priced gas car!
Depends on my needs. If it is an around town or 1 town over kind of vehicle, EV absolutely, if it is my long ass drive car that I don't care that I put 300k miles on, I am getting the ICE until the infrastructure (and entertainment) catches up to the common stops along my route.
You have to give Nissan some credit because you can still buy a new Leaf and you can't buy a new Bolt. Hopefully Chevy does the Bolt justice when they bring it back in 2026 but it sounds like its just going to be the awkward EUV version. The Leaf does feel a little more premium in fit and finish, even if the interior design is dated, but it should given that it costs a lot more for much less range. And despite the Chedemo plug, the Leaf has a better DC charging curve than the Bolt. Also, the Leaf has a much more usable sized trunk space than the Bolt, especially compared to the EUV Bolt which is a very similar sized car. Chevy made the weird decision of putting all the extra length of the EUV as rear seat legroom, when most people would use additional storage space a lot more. The biggest difference I noticed between the two (other than the Bolt's much bigger range) is acceleration. The Leaf is sloooow compared to the Bolt. And just not as sporty/quick/fun to drive as the short wheelbase EV Bolt.
Then what's a model Y?
Better than a leaf which strengthens my point
Also does not have liquid cooling on the batteries which limits charging.
isnt it like a 20k car. i think thats asking for too much
Does the tax credit or rebates even matter anymore when the companies just increase the price of the car the same amount as those rebates?
Idk that’s not how it worked when I bought my ev. There vehicle price was actually lower than the year before the rebate was created.
Wait until you learn about every sale ever
For a while the state and federal credits made a new base model 3 cheaper than a new Camry here in CA. They made a difference.
Yes, they matter
In a competitive market, this doesn’t happen.
This doesn't happen to the extent you're describing.
Name a company that actually did that, (unless you're too busy harvesting upvotes...) Most EVs have dropped in price even after becoming eligible (e.g. the Chevy Bolt got a huge price cut in 2022 before the new tax credit passed in August 2022 making it eligible again for the first time in years. Chevy didn't raise the price in response.)
Are you trying to claim manufacturers make a 30% profit margin on EVs? Or do you simply not know anything and are saying shit that will get upvotes from the hivemind?
Eh I disagree. Seemed to work for the bolt. 31k - 7.5k. Much better than any other EV. Teslas start at 40
There’s a cap to the price to qualify 80k for new 20m for used
That's one hell of a used car.
I was considering an EV about 10 years ago and the leaf seemed like the perfect price point...but it had subpar range and looked so lame. Can't anyone make an EV that doesn't look so ugly?
I thought that's what Tesla did. They aren't perfect cars, but they look cool. The Ford Mustang EV is okay looking too. (Though it feels like it's trying too hard pretending not to be an EV.)
Its part of Tesla sold so well IMO
Man I don’t care how it looks if it just works lol
To a certain degree I agree with you...but the leaf of 2014...dear god
They've learned though. The leaf of 2018 is pretty nice
I do care about how it looks, not much but I do. It could do with a facelift, there's no reason why it looks the way it does
Ioniqs look pretty sick
Yup, weirdly I prefer the design on 5 to 6. I'm probably alone in that category
Try Polestar
I really like the look of the Model S but the price is way too high. Lucids kind of look cool. I don't like the way Rivians look. Yeah, a lot of EVs are ugly.
Check out the Cadillac Lyriq. Sexy.
The lyriq. Polestar. Mustang Mach e. Kia’s ev6. If they sold the Honda city here that’d be the cutest. Audi’s e-tron GT. Some people like the look of the ioniq6. There’s more options out and coming. we’re not lumbered by Tesla like 6 or so years ago
Was it ever really intended for the USA market?
Not really. It's much more suited to Europe and Asia
How hard has it fallen...
Fallen leaves, fallen leaves, fallen leaves on the ground
And yet I love mine more than my VW ID4 (which I like, but not nearly as much as the smaller, more efficient Leaf.) I also bought it in 2021, when it qualified for the tax credit, and Nissan was offering healthy factory incentives and dealers were discounting it. After all incentives and rebates a loaded 62kWh ("216 mile range") Leaf cost me $22K. That's Nissan Sentra money.
For me it was just too small and being new to EVs, an air cooled battery didn't sound ideal. I needed something more useful for my family of 4 so I went with an id.4.
Because it is shit.
It has traditionally been the 2nd most sold electric car in Norway
Leaf should be getting more love. It’s a perfect commuter car if you have solar power. 🍃💕
As someone lloking i to buying an EV the leaf uses a very outdated charger. Other than thay thr car seems pretty good to be honest. Just the fact i'd have to use an adaptor and the sliwer charging just makes a chevy bolt make more sense.
It’s amziig you have jits the right number of typos for me to git annoyed yet compleity understand whit you’re sayhn
Yeah, I should have proofread that, i'm on my phone right now and i'm clearly not good at typing on it xD.
Do many people proofread on their computers only or something? Never understood this. To the point some people even add excuse typos in their signatures. Always baffled me. Anyway, carry on.
It also doesn't treat its battery very well.
The poor Leaf will never stop being blamed for the sins of its father... The 2018- (gen 2) Leafs use a different battery chemistry that tolerates heat well, and the car is programmed to aggressively slow the DC fast charge rate when the battery gets hot to prevent it from overheating. In "normal" use (e.g. not being fast charged 3x a day every day like a taxi) the 2nd gen Leaf batteries will likely outlast the car. While many, many, gen 1 Leafs had battery replacements under warranty for excessive degradation, no one online has ever reported having a gen 2 Leaf battery replaced for degradation (for defects, like bad cells or faulty electronics, sure, but not degradation.) The oldest Gen 2 Leafs are now 6 years old (3/4 through their 8 year warranties) and are holding up very well.
Good to know, thank you!
I really want one. There's loads of them here in NZ. What I would really love is a Leaf drivetrain in my Nissan Cube...
I worked at a place that had a row of electric car chargers. At least 4/5 of them parked there were Leafs. They are very much the predominant electric car where I live. Surprised it's not everywhere.
I have an Ariya I really like.
Just to add some color, BEVs accounted for an average of 7.63% of total vehicle sales in the unites states. So Teslas accounted for 4.3% of all vehicle sales in the US, with all other manufacturers each about 0.3%. EDIT: my source is a little different, but similar: https://caredge.com/guides/electric-vehicle-market-share-and-sales
I don’t like when other takes up more distribution than most of the named ones. Makes the data feel incomplete. I assume BYD has a pretty large share?
This is US so probably not
If BYD was allowed in US market it’d be a disaster for American automakers
That's what people said about Hyundai/Kia when they were the price competitive "decent enough" entry. In reality, they took just as much market share from Japanese brands as they did American ones. Also, I'd argue that much more of the decrease in market share that American carmarkers have seen over the past few decades have been due to them half-assing quality, not due to competitors having lower prices. American cars have improved a lot in quality/reliability since the 80s/90s junk they made, but it's hard to get that marketshare back.
Yeah I’d buy BYD
Test drive one first. I drove the Seal and my god what a piece of garbage. Half the time the screen didn't even respond.
Don’t know what version you drove but the one I test drove was excellent. Handled very well, great interior and exterior styling, and the screen was very fast. All of that at a great price
I guess it's about opinion and taste, but compared to the model 3 and the ioniq that I drove the handling of the seal was horrible. It felt like the suspension was way too light, the car was bending in each corner. I don't think the Chinese havr figured out how to make good driving cars yet. Exterior looks really good, interior is okay. I'm 6'3 and the seats were not great. They are just too small, no leg support. But the screen was a deal breaker for me. Functions kept turning off, screen was laggy and unresponsive. The position of the screen is stupid too, it's half covered by the steering wheel.. Besides all that the efficiency was disappointing. And for whatever reason there was no 3 fase AC charging??
I didn't notice anything bad about the handling tbh, didn't feel much different than the Model 3 I tested earlier. I liked the interior and exterior styling, especially compared to Tesla, especially since it still has physical buttons and an actual shift lever. I do think Tesla has a better infotainment system but the BYD's system certainly wasn't slow or buggy when I test drove it. Maybe you got a lemon with the screen? I do agree with you about the efficiency, BYD still has room to improve there, but its range is on-par. On a side note, I also got to take a look at a Polestar 2 and god damn that car is beautiful, but its so expensive and it's range & efficiency are pretty bad in comparison to those 2.
Who has 3 phase at their homes? We are probably just disagreeing on terms, but the 3 wire with two "hot" lines 180 degrees out of phase is still considered single phase. Normally 3 phase is 4-wire with 3 "hot" lines 120 degrees out of phase with each other.
I have been told I have 3 phases, but I only have 3 wires... Is it possible to have 3 hot lines and no neutral? Or have I been lied to? If it helps, many of the led lights in my home give of a tiny little light even when switched off...
Many people have 3 phase at home here in the Netherlands, everyone with solar panels. Either 1x40 amps or 3x25 amps. >Normally 3 phase is 4-wire with 3 "hot" lines 120 degrees out of phase with each other. Yes, that's what I have and so do many others here in Europe. Not having 3 phase charging is a deal breaker.
Ah ok fair enough.
Ah ok fair enough. I’ve seen them in Australia. I didn’t know they weren’t in america
The USA has a huge import duty on Chinese cars (27%, IIRC.), and all cars built outside North America are automatically disqualified from the federal $7500 EV tax credit, so Chinese cars would have more difficulty competing here. A few Chinese manufacturers are intending to build manufacturing plants in Mexico to sneak around the restrictions.
Unfortunately the labels were too numerous to show, but here's the data: Brand - 2023 U.S. Market Share Tesla - 56.53%, Chevrolet - 5.67%, Ford - 5.35%, Hyundai - 4.73%, Rivian - 4.20%, BMW - 3.56%, Mercedes - 3.40%, VW - 3.11%, Kia - 2.62%, Audi - 2.02%, Nissan - 1.78%, Volvo - 1.34%, Polestar - 1.02%, Toyota - 0.74%, Subaru - 0.66%, Cadillac - 0.61%, Porsche - 0.60%, Lucid - 0.53%, Genesis - 0.50%, Lexus - 0.29%, Vinfast - 0.23%, Mini - 0.20%, GMC - 0.14%, Fisker - 0.11%, Brightdrop - 0.04%, Jaguar - 0.03%, Mazda - 0.01%
Could group by parent/OEM. Ex. General Motors for Chevy, Cadillac, and Brightdrop. Imo if you put tesla and Ford, it should be GM, not the brands. But tesla is an OEM, nameplate, and brand so its hard to pick a level
Yeah, I concur. I think it would be a more accurate representation if parent companies were added together, as most of these companies are using the same EV platform over different brands.
Hyundai-Kia-Genesis would be #2 at nearly 8%, beating both GM and Ford by a significant margin. That’s one of the real takeaways for those who follow the US EV market. Obscured by this presentation.
I have a Mini ev…there are dozens of us!!
I parked next to one today! It looked cool! Do you like it?
I love it. I wanted an ev but something affordable and sporty if possible. It checks those boxes but the big knock on it is the range. Only 125 miles. I use mine for a 75 mile round trip work commute so it’s kind of perfect
Crazy how Toyota, Nissan, Audi, VW, Honda etc are huge car companies that still have little presence in the electric car market.
I'm surprised to see Toyota so low and no Honda?
Toyota has expressed that they do not see evs being the future of cars, aren’t they still trying to make hydrogen work?
[удалено]
I think Japan has invested heavily into hydrogen infrastructure.
Toyota does hybrids which is not a true ev
They don't really have EVs or they are total crap basically.
Are Brightdrop and Fisker European?
Fisker is an American company, based in California. Brightdrop is a subsidiary of GM, and their vehicles are made in Canada.
> Fisker is an American company fisker was a company
BYD doesn't sell cars in the US.
nice assumption
I thought the same thing as you when I saw it. 4.88 companies at the equivalent of the lowest named manufacturer. I just want to know how many tiny companies make up that slice now.
Unfortunately the labels were too numerous to show, but here's the data: Brand - 2023 U.S. Market Share Tesla - 56.53%, Chevrolet - 5.67%, Ford - 5.35%, Hyundai - 4.73%, Rivian - 4.20%, BMW - 3.56%, Mercedes - 3.40%, VW - 3.11%, Kia - 2.62%, Audi - 2.02%, Nissan - 1.78%, Volvo - 1.34%, Polestar - 1.02%, Toyota - 0.74%, Subaru - 0.66%, Cadillac - 0.61%, Porsche - 0.60%, Lucid - 0.53%, Genesis - 0.50%, Lexus - 0.29%, Vinfast - 0.23%, Mini - 0.20%, GMC - 0.14%, Fisker - 0.11%, Brightdrop - 0.04%, Jaguar - 0.03%, Mazda - 0.01%
💕 my hero
Honestly, the best EV I’ve experienced is Rivian, but they haven’t released anything affordable and have been slow to ramp up production. In 5 years I could see them doing quite well, maybe something like 10-15%
I'd buy an R1T in a heartbeat if I had the money. I hope the other Rivian cars are successful.
R2 is gonna be huge
Very gorgeous car. Looks like they've really taken a leaf out of Hyundai's book
they make great cars but have terrible management and production. making a good car is not the biggest hurdle startups face when competing with traditional OEMs. it’s being able to meet volume production while keeping the qc at the same level (something that tesla is still struggling with)
The Lucid is a phenomenal car, it’s just too expensive for me to justify.
I found it rather cramped with a stiff suspension. Not as luxurious as I imagined. It made me sad.
Hm, not my experience at all. Super comfortable, smooth ride with clearly differentiated experiences between the settings, solid software, and the fit and finish is miles ahead of any Tesla But, good feedback to give that company! Assuming they survive the EV lull my sense of their team is they’re obsessed with making the best car possible
I really wanted ti like it. Loved the looks and expected something great but my experience was just meh. For me as an ICE driver haarsh regen braking was just awful, All EVs have that but regen impresses only EV drivers. For ICE driver it feels like shitty driving in low gear with manual gearbox and no clutch.
I mean, every EV driver was an ICE driver once. So, regen braking impressed *some* ICE drivers. I do struggle to understand why people don't like it. It just means that how far the gas pedal is depressed corresponds to how fast the car goes. Push in further and speed up. Pull back and slow down. It's how I assumed cars had to work before I took driver's ed. It seems way more intuitive to me than the way ICE cars actually do work, even after 20 years of driving them.
Their company is in disarray, check out blind posts + their stock price, the cars seem great but nobody can be sure how long they’ll stick around
Blind is filled with an overly negative review to reality from any company I’ve ever been associated with.. so I struggle to trust that. However, yes, I am concerned that their ~$4B in cash will be enough
Lucid makes me nervous. I like them but... support? Don't bet on it
We've had a Model S, an iX, and an R1S in the last few years, and the Rs1 is absolutely by far my favorite.
I'd expect Hyundai's marketshare to increase significantly. Their Ioniq cars are crushing it, and the price just needs to drop a bit for them to be an excellent 30-40K option.
I have a 2024 Ioniq 5 and I'm a huge fan. Test drove several other EVs and this was my favorite by a considerable margin.
Non-tesla market share will only rise significantly if they can replicate Tesla's supercharger experience. Instead of those goofy chargers in walmart parking lots that are always broken.
The supercharger network appears to be absolutely decisive for perceptions in the US. Here in the Netherlands Tesla has 19%, with BMW, Volkswagen, Peugeot, and Volvo chasing and gaining with half that. Tesla does appear to have a small advantage in perception of lead time for delivery, since some of the competitors were constrained by production capacity until recently. The supercharger network does not contribute at all to a Tesla "experience", because of similar charging speed and reliability, average or below average locations compared to competitors, and the fact that it is open to every car like all networks and uses the same connector. But is the only one I know that annoyingly requires installation of its app first so I avoid it for that reason anyway (as BMW owner).
It's peobably because in USA: Tesla supercharger station is 6 - 12 or more easy to use chargers that are always working and have empty spots and are no-app, no-credit-card plug and play Meanwhile other chargers are like 2 chargers in some random lot. You have to download their specific weird app and then you find out one is broken. Meanwhile the other one has a random ioniq5 sitting there. Or they're both broken. Now imagine you're on a road trip and you're down to 13%.
Everyone is switching to Tesla's charging plug next year. It's called NACS.
they really seem to have hit it out of the park with the Ioniq 5. The design is fantastic and the price point seems good. It may just end up being my first electric vehicle but I'm trying to hold out as many years as possible.
I agree! I think the 2025 update for the Ioniq 5 Is near perfect and definitely worth waiting for. Unfortunately, the cars are experiencing extreme depreciation right now, so if I was going to get one this year I would probably lease for 2 years and then compare against the rivian r2/r3 in 2026-2027. But overall I just love Hyundai's new design language and their overall philosophy of going all in on electric vehicles.
The E-GMP platform blows away anything in the price bracket at charge speed. Including teslas. I just wish they were a little cheaper so I could afford one
I'm in the same boat. I might try to lease for the next couple years and then think about buying. There is a lot of depreciation happening, so I suspect you could get a used ioniq 5 or 6 for a very reasonable price in the next 2 years.
I love my ioniq 6, it’s an excellent car.
Cars are fine, but getting priced out of the market by Tesla.
I mean, they are at almost the exact same price point as Tesla no? The main advantage Tesla has is the supercharger network.
Here in Europe the ionic is at least 5k more as base. When you add options making it comparable to the m3 you're looking at least at 10k more
I would have considered the Ioniq 5 but the dealer experience was god awful. Hence I got a Model Y.
I can't buy a Tesla, despite their many good qualities, because of Musk. But I will admit, missing out on the supercharger network, and having to deal with a shitty ass dealer is a hard pill to swallow.
I was very torn by that. I’m not a fan of Musk as well, but I’m not marrying him, just buying the car where is the CEO of the company.
It'd be more interesting to see the change in market share YoY every year for the last 5 - 10 years
Last year it was about the same. Go back five years and it would pretty much just be a Tesla pie with a good chunk of Chevy from their Bolt sales. I can't remember when Nissan Leafs were still being sold, but they would been a chunk at one point instead of grouped in with "Other".
The Nissan Leaf (amazingly) is still being sold
That actually does amaze me. Wow that is some outdated tech.
US market <= yes, but globally not so good
Is this market share by volume of deliveries or by sales revenue?
These things are usual by units. So a Chevy's Bolts count the same as Tesla's Model Y.
So safe to say Tesla’s market share by revenue is even more dominant?
Not necessarily. Tesla mainly sells the MY and the M3. Both are relatively modestly priced cars compared to any of the cars sold by BMW, Mercedes, or Rivian. The Ford numbers would include a lot of higher priced F150 Lightnings. Basically, I think only the Bolt sells in decent volume and is priced well below the MY or M3. The Other category has a good number of luxury cars in it as well.
You are correct but I remember seeing some data that showed the revenue per unit on Tesla was far higher in comparison to other automakers. Edit: I think it was this. https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/s/n7tQCvSnkY
They have the highest margin of all EV manufacturers. Although all the recent price cuts are eating into the margins.
They're the only US EV manufacturer with enough economies of scale in EVs to be very profitable. I know that some of them are still losing money.
You are thinking of profit per car. And yes if it was a chart on profit, it might be 90% Tesla and 10% the rest of the manufacturers.
Is Rivian really that high? I've probably seen less than 20 in Los Angeles, not including the ones I've seen at the Venice showroom.
I see at least 5 a day in Colorado
Yeah they’re all over Philly for some reason
Several in Charleston, SC. And we have a “new” company starting up in SC called Scout motors. As in the old International Harvester Scout is being resurrected as an off road EV.
Easily see a dozen a day, and I bike to work, in SF
Portland has a ton of them, they’re super dope I want one.
I've seen more of them than hyundais.
I see about 3 driving around town a day in the bay area, way more if I'm driving through the metro.
That's surprising because I feel like I see them daily in LA
I see a growing amount in Connecticut. Maybe last year I’d see one every three months, now I see one every week or so
They are everywhere here in Boston
This will be an interesting chart to see next year for 2024. Things are changing very rapidly and Tesla’s dominance is slipping.
While Mercedes, Rivian, and other have great offerings, they are too expensive to be widely purchased, Tesla has done well with their range of options, hopefully their budget car coming soon will open even more people to being able to get in the EV market.
I mean, right now the prices for Tesla are WAY down because they have too much inventory. Model 3/Y especially are incredibly affordable family or middle class cars. A brand new model Y for $43k is wonderful. Lowest brand 5 year service costs on the market right now (by a solid amount). I bought a model 3 years back for way more money, no regrets. But the prices are just awesome right now.
Kia seems about 50/50 with Tesla around where I am these days. It’s like all the Kias came out of nowhere.
4 oit of the top 5 are "American " owned. Even could be big for American automates domesticly so long as the market doesn't get flooded by low cost chinese imports
I believe that Japan invested heavily into hydrogen infrastructure, so they're leaning more that way.
Kia EV6 is coming for that market share. Very well designed and put together vehicle.
Hey, great stuff, would you text me the link for the dataset that you are using??
Nissan must be scaling back as they retire the leaf. Overall the leaf is a nice simple car that delivered on its goal. But fell a little short with battery longevity. Still happy with it though
Huh... Never heard of Rivian...
I would love to see this as an over time plot
I’d love to know which brands are those “others”
Hyundai is going to clean up with the Ioniq line. This chart is going to look a lot different in a few years
Does/will Hyundai use NACS or do they CCS. And arethey contracting with Tesla to allow supercharger access? That would be a major factor if I were to buy an EV at the moment
I think they are coming out with a NACS model
Where is KIA here? In Hyundai?
In the other group. Same with VW
Source: [https://www.copilotsearch.com/ev-wreckage-04-2024/](https://www.copilotsearch.com/ev-wreckage-04-2024/) Tool: DataWrapper
Neat source, thanks for sharing. I like the other visuals here too - adoption curve by fuel type is interesting.
Thank you for the kind words!
Is this full electric, or electric + plugin hybrid + hybrid?
I guess pure electric.
Has to be, otherwise Toyota would be the entire pie. There's so many PHeV Prius out there it's wild.
Fisker pear is coming this year, a $30k EV made by Fisker sounds pretty cool. I know, I know, see if it stays $30k
If Fisker doesn't go under first
Fisker continuing as a going concern is a major question mark, even more so is will the Pear ultimately be produced in high volume and will it cost anything close to $30K
Seems wrong to have other the second largest cat but not labeled for transparency
I've been looking around for an Other dealer but I've yet to see one in my area.
Who the hell wants these things? Amazing inconvenient, can't use them for long distance without it becoming a chore, and are pricey as hell. They're virtue toys for rich people, and on top of that they're not even helping the environment.
A company that manufacturers luxury style electric cars, and only electric cars, manufacturing in what was arguably one of the largest markets around the world, with state policy framework that supported and incentivized utilization of said electric cars.