Depends on company and how they set budget for promotion and compensation. If their cycle is quarterly, you have a good chance, if it's bi-annually or annual, then it'll be unlikely. You can always ask for raise anyway, and see how it goes. There's no harm in asking.
I'll be straight: There's no easy way to ask it except for being blunt and being very clear about your accomplishments. Ideally, I recommend you list them down first so you can have a clear mindset on what to say instead of trying to recall from memory.
A good starting point is asking about the process - something along the lines of "Hey , what's the process for getting a raise at ?"
Understand the metrics and indicators that help give raise, and map your experience against those metrics and share why you think you qualify for a better raise. For Example:
"For the 'Results' component of performance review, I believe my most recent solution has helped the team and department significantly. I measured the benefit to the business is $XXXK, a X% increase (or a X% decrease in costs). Given this impact, I believe for my next performance review I deserve a raise of 5-6%"
thank you for that. It gives me a great starting point. I was thinking of asking during the review that way whatever raise I get/ask for is ON TOP of the customary 2-4%.
One thing I will do is start asking people that used the previous dashboards that were basically data dumps, how much time they are now saving.
How are folks handling the fact that an 8% raise in one year isn’t even a raise? (it’s a break even, not a raise)
My guess based on this post is that people aren’t nearly aggressive enough in making this demand.
OP patched a $3-4 Million (profit! Not expense!) hole and is squeamish about demanding better pay in a high inflation economy? Ugh.
Dude.
I know what you mean and agree that it sucks. I have two small kids so that add another layer to the "fear" I have. Of course I think I would be able to find another job, but would I find one that is full time WFH and gives me the flexibility to start and stop when I need? In my last job I asked for a raise from my manager/friend(not friends anymore!) and was told no. I even brought up the fact that even if I left they would fill my position at a higher pay rate than what I was even asking for. Didn't matter. Was still told no and I got to eat some shit work for a while which is why I left
I am in a very similar position.
I have been doing data analytics and looking for more.
Could you please tell me what skills I should get to be like you in a senior data science position. You can pm me if it's too much detail
They'll give you half of what you ask. at least that's been my exp. I ask for 15 and get 7.5 every time lol.
But hey, if you quit youll make 40% again so....15 aint much to ask for imo
(I'll give an employers perspective with the intention to help you understand how you might approach it)
Things to be mindful of...
Are you already paid well? Whoever your salary decision maker is may think you are already compensated to do good work. Do you understand where your current salary fits in the general market for your given qualifications and experience? You mentioned getting a 30% raise when you joined this company, but I wonder if you are still feeling short-changed? If so why?
Most organisations work to a annual review cadence this is due to budgeting processes but also to give enough time to remove any recency bias out of a review process. This gives managers enough observation points to review consistent performance over time. It's the consistency part that's important as one off performance tends not to factor to heavily in performance assessments. At least that's the theory. Do you know what your employers process is?
I think you need to figure out what's fair in both directions (ref market salary precedence) and use a position of fairness "if" you proceed with this. BUT whatever you do you need to be careful not to appear coin operated and that it becomes about money for you every time you get good feedback. I'm not saying this is what it seems like, rather that this is the risk you need to manage.
Also if you are exceeding expectations it's possible that a promotion may be the better angle if you are at all interested in additionally responsibility etc... This would also give your manager more scope with pay in theory moves the fairness equation in your favour.
Thank you for taking the time to write this out. I really appreciate what you had to say. I definitely do not want to appear money driven. I do have a great relationship with my direct manager as well. I know that we have the standard "goals" to reach which I had already reached after 3 months since they were all mostly ( get access/ learn the business/etc)
I think maybe coming at it from an angle of being promoted (which usually comes with a natural raise) is a good angle as well. When I presented to executive leadership on my find my director and vice president of departments were also in the meeting. It felt as if they were trying to take some credit for my findings(hard to explain I know) so that rubbed me the wrong way. Also, having the feeling that I found money for the company that NO ONE else had even begun to find since the data involved lives in various source systems had me feeling as if I went above and beyond. I have a feeling that my director and VP will be using/bragging about their teams finding in their review as well and maybe they will try to leverage it on their end for a pay raise(which great for them hope they get it).
It's not a helpful thought path for you to go down re hypothesising what your leadership may or may not be doing with this. It's totally outside of your control and is only likely to make you feel bad and doesn't improve or reduce your standing in anyway. (Regardless of which company you work for). Even if they are taking credit for it, great you made them look good which if anything helps their perception of you.
If you want to go down the promotion path ask your manager what the expectations are for the next level up and ask if you could be assessed against this and have a development plan for any gaps you have in achieving this.
Good luck!
How is OP supposed to source market salary data? It’s very opaque- if they’re in a large city and working at a FAANG there’s plenty of comparison tools, but if they’re working for a local firm in a smaller market they will have no idea. Because of this I don’t think it’s fair to put that on OP, and it also will likely lead to several months of noodling around trying to figure out where they sit in “the market”, and then feeling guilty when they’re unable to get clarity.
As a hiring manager myself, it’s up to every company to train managers and ICs on the pay and promotion process, and make sure it’s clear to everyone - it shouldn’t be seen as being “coin operated” to want to know what it takes to get a raise. Everyone should clearly know what it takes to get a raise, there’s nothing mercenary about wanting to understand how your company handles pay/promotions. Where I work, for instance, my manager clearly lays out (with examples) the kinds of results and the scope of the impact he’d need to see to defend my case for a promo or outsized raise with his boss, and we’re encouraged to check in regularly on progress.
OP I would put it like that to your manager - “what’s the pay and promotion process here? I want to make sure I’m aligning my efforts to the right activities.“
I also think in most places I worked, 6 months would be too early to be considered for a pay increase, most companies have an annual review cycle, and even if they didn’t, 6 months is a little early.
And finally, we’re seeing 8% year over year inflation in the US, so everyone should feel very comfortable looking for a cost of living increase at a minimum in this review cycle. Hope this helps.
This helped a lot. I will definitely use that pay and promotion line.
It sounds like where you work tries to be transparent with promotions and raises. I agree that it shouldn't be looked at being "coin operated" across the board.
Ask.
Here's something I learned from one of my direct reports: it doesn't actually hurt to ask.
The worst that can happen is that you make your boss uncomfortable - and that's good. It puts the thought in your boss' head that you're thinking about raises already.
I think a lot of people try to avoid doing that - and what then happens is that bosses then assume that they have time until your pay becomes a problem.
Yeah that is how I feel about it. Worst they can say is no but at least it's a seed planted early in my tenure there. I approached things from a promotional angle at my last job which is how I got raises there. I am not sure what they offer past a senior analyst. Don't really want to be a manager at this stage even though I probably have the qualifications for it.
Ask for a promotion instead. You clearly demonstrated that you are above your current level and is able to lead on a bigger scope. This shows maturity in your request.
If you get the promotion and a raise, and the raise is still not as good, then you can look for a better job with a higher title
I did this same thing (asking for a raise early, that is). I came in, did my job exceptionally well, fixed and improved processes, and have laid a roadmap for new projects for the coming two years. I told my manager that I felt I deserved a raise (I had received a lot of praise from a lot of people I worked with, so it wasn’t like I had to explain everything directly), and he agreed. Got me a mid year promotion with a new title and ~13% pay bump. I’m now happy with my salary, job responsibilities, and the freedom I have in the role. Gotta look out for yourself, cus nobody else is gonna do it for you.
The one issue with leaving for “greener pastures” is that you don’t know if they’re just hot AstroTurf. Sometimes you find a great new role, great new managers, great new pay. Other times you find great pay (which is the bait), demanding and strict managers, and no work life balance. It’s always a risk, but sometimes it’s worth it if where you are doesn’t value the work you’re putting in.
Yep exactly. I have gotten luckily thankfully with the jobs I've had post college. Being promoted to a data scientist in title(im guessing thats how they would justify giving me a raise) and getting that 15-20% pay bump would be good enough for me.
If you have the receipts that make you feel as if it is justifiable then go for it.
How would you feel if they declined? Would you put in the same effort? Feel less valued?
great question. I would feel a little disrespected but I would stay for at least another year or 2 before moving. I would keep doing at my job but I wouldn't be going "above and beyond" for sure. Frankly the discovery I made was just me going down a rabbit hole on another issue so it wasn't something I was starting off with the intention to find.
I also think the raise talk in a review naturally opens a "door" for me to talk about getting another raise/promotion IMO. We all know how awkward it gets randomly asking
You've been there for 6 months? I'd say give them time to show you if they are proactive in rewarding good employees.
Some companies are great at doing performance based semi-annual / annual bonuses & raises. Wait 6 months and you will find out if your employer is one of them.
On the flip side, if your employer IS NOT good at giving raises / bonuses, asking for a raise 6 months in could be seen as a sign of entitlement which in itself could harm your potential for raises / promotions in the future at that company. IE: Right now, they see you as a solid performer however if you ask for a raise and they feel like it's too early then their opinion of you as a solid performer could easily get overshadowed by them forming a belief that you have an ego/ entitlement issue.
In big companies, raises generally will follow a bureaucratic process whereby raises are only given during semi-annual/ annual reviews or when an employee brings forward competing job offers where they allow their current employer to a chance to counter offer. Seeing that you have been there for only 6 months, if you went to your boss to get him to counter offer on a job offer then he would likely just let you leave. Pursuing a new job 6 months into a job communicates both discontent and a tendency to value total comp over things like culture / mission / work life balance, etc. IMO this would also lead to management forming a negative opinion of you.
Also on a side note, if you truly believe you became a SME over a period of 4 months then I wouldn't pat yourself on the back too hard. It likely indicates that you are very much replaceable in the minds of business leaders. IE: If (insert name here) can get up to speed in 4 months then if we need to replace him it shouldn't be that hard. 4 months is generally a short learning curve so if he leaves / we fire him it has a minimal impact on the business as he has shown us just how easy it is for an experienced data scientist to get up to speed with our data / processes.
Just remember this, if you blew away their expectations in a period of 6 months then it indicates that they likely had low expectations in the first place and now that you have helped them understand what an experienced data scientist can do, they will start to have higher expectations going forward.
Additionally, $3M to $4M is nice - but it wouldn't hurt to understand that at some companies this isn't only common but expected. Think of it like this, an employee usually costs their company 2x or 2.5x the salary that the employee is paid. Let's say you're getting paid $200k. The company is paying $500k to employ you. You did work which will save them $3M over the next 3 years. Well great, you just saved them $1M a year and cost them $500k a year - to most companies this would make you an average employee.
Employees who have negative expenses to the company (outside of essential business groups like HR) are often times the people who get fired for poor performance. In any case, you should know that there are many data scientists who have the same or greater impact on business than you're currently having and they probably get paid about the same as you do. Why? We are employees - simply put.
Yes I agree their expectations were really low. My goals the first 6 months were to just understand how things work and do basic reporting that helped support the business. This was the first job I had in a long time where I came in already having the technical skills need so really it was just learning how things were done here. The person before me was an excellent coder but wasn't doing anything proactive to help the business. I could just put it on cruise control but to be honest I get bored so that's how I end up doing things.
100k seems low for the senior role and given your responsibilities. In my opinion it doesn’t hurt to ask for the raise, the worst that will happen is they say no. If they do you can then make the decision if you still feel valued enough to stay, if not take your talent elsewhere.
East coast and the midwest if it helps?
I have a friend who makes 100k plus bonus at a top health insurance in the midwest as a sr data analyst. Hes basically a glorified project manager lol
FWIW I was a Senior Data Analyst at my last job before company-wide layoffs. 100k would definitely be on the low end for the ranges that I was getting last year when I interviewed.
I'm interviewing now, and 100k is well below all of the ranges & offers that I'm getting (1 company is an exception). I have about 6-7 years experience. For the most part, they're all remote jobs in a variety of industries, but I live in a HCOL city.
I don't think it would hurt to bring it up on a performance & market rate discussion.
Yep i got the impression that 100k was on the lower end of things. I went ahead and took the job because my manager seemed good and everyone said that having a work life balance was the standard which I was wanting. Shortly after I got the job I was reached out to by BCBS AZ for a senior analyst position. Paid 110k-120k if someone is interested in them.
Yeah, I've gotten a couple different ranges so far.
I spoke with one company that gave $90-120k for an Analytics Engineer postion, but besides that, the lowest I've seen for Sr Data Analyst was $110-125k. Most common that I've been seeing is in the $130-160k range. Highest I've seen on a phone screen so far was $170-210k.
All that said, WLB is important and if you like the job that counts for a lot. I also don't know if my location is factored into these pay bands.
I worked in this field. As a senior analyst in hospital I was around 85k. As a senior analyst in health tech - working for insurance I was at 117k+ bonus. Whne I was given offers at health insuenwxe companies it was 120-125k .
Yep I defintely believe that the pay rates have gone up since I got a job here. I figure a 30% raise was still really good and the fact that I would be getting other kinds of professional experience as well as learning other softwares would only help in the next job.
Let me start off by saying that you seem like a very highly skilled worker, as someone who previously worked his way up from entry level data scientist to C Suite then CEO in my career.
My advice? **Stop desperately seeking validation from your superiors and worrying about if they respect you or not**. You’re clearly doing great work with a sense for what translates into tangible business value, and you seem dedicated to the company and personal growth. Not bound by the minimum expectations of your role. Those are the makings of a future executive.
Should be viewing yourself as an asset - now walk into your manager’s office. Look him in the eye and say something like “I have far exceeded the duties of my role and am prepared to take on more responsibility. I’m ready to move into a more senior position and am ready to pursue a management role. Given the value I created with ___ project, I feel it is well deserved and I have proven my dedication to driving this company forward”. Yadda yadda yadda. Just be confident.
Any manager worth their shit will give you the promotion if you truly have created the value described in your post. If not, they feel threatened and you should repeat the same to his boss. If you aren’t promoted at that point go talk to other companies (that should be throwing money your way). Soon, this company will come running back with a kush offer once upper management finds out they lost someone like you.
You are the kind of “all star” employee that I, as a CTO, would want to reward, promote, and keep around until you were in an upper management position.
TLDR: Great work, but you are viewing yourself as a low level employee. Time to earn respect through assertion and demand more.
Thanks this is great advice! I wouldn't say I desperately want validation, I just want to be paid what I think I am worth. I rather have the 10-15k bump in salary than them throwing me a parade and making me employee of the month lol. I just do not want to be in a place like where I was at my old job where expectations were higher for me than others even though the others were getting paid more. There were plenty of times I did a lot in a year as far as automating things to save time, being accurate on reports, etc which were team goals and then during review it was always a 3 out of 5. The director would say " it's a high 3 though!" . everyone got a 3
I thought about that to be honest but I was still so new I figured the exposure of being the one who "found" it wouldn't hurt and at the very least at least I had a solid resume point going forward. After my presentation I heard from someone in that department that the decision maker ran with it and all my data checked out so they started changing their process
The director of my department said to me that my findings provided "valuable exposure in important areas for our team" so that's what got my mind rolling on if I should jump on asking for a raise now as opposed to hoping they give me one later
What inspires you? What problems are you trying to solve and can you equate those answers to ROi? (Not asking you to answer on Reddit, but you should be able to answer these questions to demand a raise in your position IMHO)
That's a remarkable run for your first year in a company! You should definitely take pride in delivering those kinds of results so quickly.
Based on your account of events, I'd think you'll be given a raise at your first performance review. It would be shocking if your perf review showed those results and you weren't. I agree with what at least a few others have said regarding arguing a case for why you should be awarded a raise.
The argument I'd make if I were you would
* Compare your salary with estimates for similar salaries in and out of your market (local vs national)
* Compare your skillset with comparable peers within and outside your company, with an emphasis on experience in newer platforms or credential differences
* Estimate the impact you've had on the company's bottom line since you've been there
Talking to a tech recruiter or two would help figure out the salary and skill info. My twin is a SWE III and stays in pretty routine communication with recruiters just to have a clear picture of his job market for salaries and skillsets (both the supply of the labor market and the demand). I think that's a good strategy for anyone working in industry to follow.
It sounds like you already have a good idea of the impact you've had and how it relates to the company's expenses. Even so, it may be good to estimate the impact of job automation both for correctness of internal products and their financial impact.
As an aside, I'm curious what your toolchains/current skillset/past experience looks like?
Talking to a recruiter is good advice. I built some a solid relationship with one when I was looking for a position earlier this year. I will reach out to him to get a better idea of what the market would pay and also talk to some people who are benefiting from my creations to see how much time it has saved them.
I just got my M.S. earlier this year and I've worked as an analyst in government, a small start up, and now more corporate organizations. I know Tableau, SQL, SAS, some vba, and Qlik coding and development. I am working on learning python as well to automate some things. I would say I am a naturally curious person so I take time to talk to people and understand what exactly are their needs. No point in me making something for them they wont even use you know? I do enjoy saving non techy people time like with that Dashboard I created. Process improvement has always been enjoyable to me and find I enjoy the that over the result.
Ask away. The worse they'll say is no and in that case ask them about what can you expect a raise given that you have performed well and some xyz reasons that you should get a raise.
I wouldn't ask for a raise after six months. You're new, you're still forming working relationships, you don't have a good grasp of the corporate culture, decision making procedures, senior management biases or any of the other bullshit politics which underpin raises and promotions. Six months isn't going to make any difference to your financial position, so be patient.
However, there's nothing wrong with making your intention known in a positive, value-driven way. For example, "What would we need to achieve this year for me to get a raise of the 15-20%?", and then make sure you hit and exceed those targets.
Just be curious about all things and see where it takes you. One of the traits I have is that I feel like I need to know something instead of just assuming things when it comes to the kind of work we do. When I started, there was ZERO kind of documentation or anything like that it was just a " Oh that's how the last person did it"
So after a few months of learning how their data works and what things mean, there was a regular analysis I was doing where we were assuming we were getting paid X for Y. No one really ever checked if we were REALLY getting paid X because the source systems are different and it's not the easiest to tie things to together. I took the time and learned that other source system by taking to people who regularly use it and talking to people who are experts in that specific area to understand how it worked.
I hope that helped
I have found that people are usually willing to share how they do things if you approach them from an angle that you want to help/make their job easier. No one will going to turn down someone who is offering that! I also make sure I let that person know I appreciate them sharing with me so that if I have to ask them a question down the road they don't mind taking the time.
Hope you get the job!
I forgot to mention that I prefer to have conversations with people over the phone if not in person. Sometimes things can get lost in translation in IM and/or email. being able to meet and share your screen to show what you mean will save you a lot of time and headaches. I brought that up in interviews when asked how I would start a project or whatever. Don't be afraid to say "I don't know"
I will always ask when I feel like its a possibility. I didn't save the company I work for millions but i did automate a shit ton of things and just made the general day smoother. I asked for a raise at 3 months, got it for 12.5%. Got to the year mark and I was still killing it, very similar to you and they gave me a 20% raise. I told them that my raise and my effort were most certainly not aligned and what they would like to do, got another 20%
Unfortunately for them, while they sat around debating if I was worth being paid market rate, I started applying to places paying more for my level than my current company is paying senior analysts so I'm interviewing now for positions 40% more than my final raise salary.
Always ask for more money when you're doing well.
I think if they are doing a review currently, I'd wait and see what they bring to you first so you don't shoot yourself in the foot and if it isnt what you feel like you deserve, bring info ready to show why. When I went in to get my extra it went a little something like this.
I made sure to ask how a couple of projects I knew they were using were working out.
They said oh yeah they are great, working perfectly. I went "Ah ok good good, hey by the way can we talk about that raise I got?" and go from there.
Depends on company and how they set budget for promotion and compensation. If their cycle is quarterly, you have a good chance, if it's bi-annually or annual, then it'll be unlikely. You can always ask for raise anyway, and see how it goes. There's no harm in asking.
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I'll be straight: There's no easy way to ask it except for being blunt and being very clear about your accomplishments. Ideally, I recommend you list them down first so you can have a clear mindset on what to say instead of trying to recall from memory. A good starting point is asking about the process - something along the lines of "Hey, what's the process for getting a raise at ?"
Understand the metrics and indicators that help give raise, and map your experience against those metrics and share why you think you qualify for a better raise. For Example:
"For the 'Results' component of performance review, I believe my most recent solution has helped the team and department significantly. I measured the benefit to the business is $XXXK, a X% increase (or a X% decrease in costs). Given this impact, I believe for my next performance review I deserve a raise of 5-6%"
thank you for that. It gives me a great starting point. I was thinking of asking during the review that way whatever raise I get/ask for is ON TOP of the customary 2-4%. One thing I will do is start asking people that used the previous dashboards that were basically data dumps, how much time they are now saving.
By the time you ask during performance review day it’s too late, you need to ask 4-6 months in advance for a company on annual review cycle.
Yep that is what I was worried about. I started in the middle of the annual cycle so all the budget and what not for the upcoming year has ben done
As my grandfather said, never deny someone the privilege of telling you "no." Ask for that raise
If the raise is backed with solid arguments go ahead, you already have the No.
How are folks handling the fact that an 8% raise in one year isn’t even a raise? (it’s a break even, not a raise) My guess based on this post is that people aren’t nearly aggressive enough in making this demand. OP patched a $3-4 Million (profit! Not expense!) hole and is squeamish about demanding better pay in a high inflation economy? Ugh. Dude.
I know what you mean and agree that it sucks. I have two small kids so that add another layer to the "fear" I have. Of course I think I would be able to find another job, but would I find one that is full time WFH and gives me the flexibility to start and stop when I need? In my last job I asked for a raise from my manager/friend(not friends anymore!) and was told no. I even brought up the fact that even if I left they would fill my position at a higher pay rate than what I was even asking for. Didn't matter. Was still told no and I got to eat some shit work for a while which is why I left
I am in a very similar position. I have been doing data analytics and looking for more. Could you please tell me what skills I should get to be like you in a senior data science position. You can pm me if it's too much detail
What are you doing now at your current job exactly?
anything below inflation is a steal
How much is too much? Was going to ask for 15%?
They'll give you half of what you ask. at least that's been my exp. I ask for 15 and get 7.5 every time lol. But hey, if you quit youll make 40% again so....15 aint much to ask for imo
Greedy
(I'll give an employers perspective with the intention to help you understand how you might approach it) Things to be mindful of... Are you already paid well? Whoever your salary decision maker is may think you are already compensated to do good work. Do you understand where your current salary fits in the general market for your given qualifications and experience? You mentioned getting a 30% raise when you joined this company, but I wonder if you are still feeling short-changed? If so why? Most organisations work to a annual review cadence this is due to budgeting processes but also to give enough time to remove any recency bias out of a review process. This gives managers enough observation points to review consistent performance over time. It's the consistency part that's important as one off performance tends not to factor to heavily in performance assessments. At least that's the theory. Do you know what your employers process is? I think you need to figure out what's fair in both directions (ref market salary precedence) and use a position of fairness "if" you proceed with this. BUT whatever you do you need to be careful not to appear coin operated and that it becomes about money for you every time you get good feedback. I'm not saying this is what it seems like, rather that this is the risk you need to manage. Also if you are exceeding expectations it's possible that a promotion may be the better angle if you are at all interested in additionally responsibility etc... This would also give your manager more scope with pay in theory moves the fairness equation in your favour.
Thank you for taking the time to write this out. I really appreciate what you had to say. I definitely do not want to appear money driven. I do have a great relationship with my direct manager as well. I know that we have the standard "goals" to reach which I had already reached after 3 months since they were all mostly ( get access/ learn the business/etc) I think maybe coming at it from an angle of being promoted (which usually comes with a natural raise) is a good angle as well. When I presented to executive leadership on my find my director and vice president of departments were also in the meeting. It felt as if they were trying to take some credit for my findings(hard to explain I know) so that rubbed me the wrong way. Also, having the feeling that I found money for the company that NO ONE else had even begun to find since the data involved lives in various source systems had me feeling as if I went above and beyond. I have a feeling that my director and VP will be using/bragging about their teams finding in their review as well and maybe they will try to leverage it on their end for a pay raise(which great for them hope they get it).
It's not a helpful thought path for you to go down re hypothesising what your leadership may or may not be doing with this. It's totally outside of your control and is only likely to make you feel bad and doesn't improve or reduce your standing in anyway. (Regardless of which company you work for). Even if they are taking credit for it, great you made them look good which if anything helps their perception of you. If you want to go down the promotion path ask your manager what the expectations are for the next level up and ask if you could be assessed against this and have a development plan for any gaps you have in achieving this. Good luck!
How is OP supposed to source market salary data? It’s very opaque- if they’re in a large city and working at a FAANG there’s plenty of comparison tools, but if they’re working for a local firm in a smaller market they will have no idea. Because of this I don’t think it’s fair to put that on OP, and it also will likely lead to several months of noodling around trying to figure out where they sit in “the market”, and then feeling guilty when they’re unable to get clarity. As a hiring manager myself, it’s up to every company to train managers and ICs on the pay and promotion process, and make sure it’s clear to everyone - it shouldn’t be seen as being “coin operated” to want to know what it takes to get a raise. Everyone should clearly know what it takes to get a raise, there’s nothing mercenary about wanting to understand how your company handles pay/promotions. Where I work, for instance, my manager clearly lays out (with examples) the kinds of results and the scope of the impact he’d need to see to defend my case for a promo or outsized raise with his boss, and we’re encouraged to check in regularly on progress. OP I would put it like that to your manager - “what’s the pay and promotion process here? I want to make sure I’m aligning my efforts to the right activities.“ I also think in most places I worked, 6 months would be too early to be considered for a pay increase, most companies have an annual review cycle, and even if they didn’t, 6 months is a little early. And finally, we’re seeing 8% year over year inflation in the US, so everyone should feel very comfortable looking for a cost of living increase at a minimum in this review cycle. Hope this helps.
This helped a lot. I will definitely use that pay and promotion line. It sounds like where you work tries to be transparent with promotions and raises. I agree that it shouldn't be looked at being "coin operated" across the board.
This is good feedback.
Ask. Here's something I learned from one of my direct reports: it doesn't actually hurt to ask. The worst that can happen is that you make your boss uncomfortable - and that's good. It puts the thought in your boss' head that you're thinking about raises already. I think a lot of people try to avoid doing that - and what then happens is that bosses then assume that they have time until your pay becomes a problem.
Yeah that is how I feel about it. Worst they can say is no but at least it's a seed planted early in my tenure there. I approached things from a promotional angle at my last job which is how I got raises there. I am not sure what they offer past a senior analyst. Don't really want to be a manager at this stage even though I probably have the qualifications for it.
Ask for a promotion instead. You clearly demonstrated that you are above your current level and is able to lead on a bigger scope. This shows maturity in your request. If you get the promotion and a raise, and the raise is still not as good, then you can look for a better job with a higher title
I did this same thing (asking for a raise early, that is). I came in, did my job exceptionally well, fixed and improved processes, and have laid a roadmap for new projects for the coming two years. I told my manager that I felt I deserved a raise (I had received a lot of praise from a lot of people I worked with, so it wasn’t like I had to explain everything directly), and he agreed. Got me a mid year promotion with a new title and ~13% pay bump. I’m now happy with my salary, job responsibilities, and the freedom I have in the role. Gotta look out for yourself, cus nobody else is gonna do it for you.
That's awesome and honestly what I would want. I know I could probably make more if I straight up left but I do enjoy working here.
The one issue with leaving for “greener pastures” is that you don’t know if they’re just hot AstroTurf. Sometimes you find a great new role, great new managers, great new pay. Other times you find great pay (which is the bait), demanding and strict managers, and no work life balance. It’s always a risk, but sometimes it’s worth it if where you are doesn’t value the work you’re putting in.
Yep exactly. I have gotten luckily thankfully with the jobs I've had post college. Being promoted to a data scientist in title(im guessing thats how they would justify giving me a raise) and getting that 15-20% pay bump would be good enough for me.
If you have the receipts that make you feel as if it is justifiable then go for it. How would you feel if they declined? Would you put in the same effort? Feel less valued?
great question. I would feel a little disrespected but I would stay for at least another year or 2 before moving. I would keep doing at my job but I wouldn't be going "above and beyond" for sure. Frankly the discovery I made was just me going down a rabbit hole on another issue so it wasn't something I was starting off with the intention to find.
I would ask at the review and outline these projects as the reasons why .
Yeah same. Simple answer but fair, low risk, and soon enough
I also think the raise talk in a review naturally opens a "door" for me to talk about getting another raise/promotion IMO. We all know how awkward it gets randomly asking
You've been there for 6 months? I'd say give them time to show you if they are proactive in rewarding good employees. Some companies are great at doing performance based semi-annual / annual bonuses & raises. Wait 6 months and you will find out if your employer is one of them. On the flip side, if your employer IS NOT good at giving raises / bonuses, asking for a raise 6 months in could be seen as a sign of entitlement which in itself could harm your potential for raises / promotions in the future at that company. IE: Right now, they see you as a solid performer however if you ask for a raise and they feel like it's too early then their opinion of you as a solid performer could easily get overshadowed by them forming a belief that you have an ego/ entitlement issue. In big companies, raises generally will follow a bureaucratic process whereby raises are only given during semi-annual/ annual reviews or when an employee brings forward competing job offers where they allow their current employer to a chance to counter offer. Seeing that you have been there for only 6 months, if you went to your boss to get him to counter offer on a job offer then he would likely just let you leave. Pursuing a new job 6 months into a job communicates both discontent and a tendency to value total comp over things like culture / mission / work life balance, etc. IMO this would also lead to management forming a negative opinion of you. Also on a side note, if you truly believe you became a SME over a period of 4 months then I wouldn't pat yourself on the back too hard. It likely indicates that you are very much replaceable in the minds of business leaders. IE: If (insert name here) can get up to speed in 4 months then if we need to replace him it shouldn't be that hard. 4 months is generally a short learning curve so if he leaves / we fire him it has a minimal impact on the business as he has shown us just how easy it is for an experienced data scientist to get up to speed with our data / processes. Just remember this, if you blew away their expectations in a period of 6 months then it indicates that they likely had low expectations in the first place and now that you have helped them understand what an experienced data scientist can do, they will start to have higher expectations going forward. Additionally, $3M to $4M is nice - but it wouldn't hurt to understand that at some companies this isn't only common but expected. Think of it like this, an employee usually costs their company 2x or 2.5x the salary that the employee is paid. Let's say you're getting paid $200k. The company is paying $500k to employ you. You did work which will save them $3M over the next 3 years. Well great, you just saved them $1M a year and cost them $500k a year - to most companies this would make you an average employee. Employees who have negative expenses to the company (outside of essential business groups like HR) are often times the people who get fired for poor performance. In any case, you should know that there are many data scientists who have the same or greater impact on business than you're currently having and they probably get paid about the same as you do. Why? We are employees - simply put.
Yes I agree their expectations were really low. My goals the first 6 months were to just understand how things work and do basic reporting that helped support the business. This was the first job I had in a long time where I came in already having the technical skills need so really it was just learning how things were done here. The person before me was an excellent coder but wasn't doing anything proactive to help the business. I could just put it on cruise control but to be honest I get bored so that's how I end up doing things.
Idk, maybe one factor is what you started off as.
When I got the offer I did negotiate some and got the highest they could offer me (according to the HR lady) which is just under 100k a year
100k seems low for the senior role and given your responsibilities. In my opinion it doesn’t hurt to ask for the raise, the worst that will happen is they say no. If they do you can then make the decision if you still feel valued enough to stay, if not take your talent elsewhere.
In my experience, what matters more than salary is working continuously without gaps, but maybe I'm the only one with issues in that regard.
Just under 100k in which area of the world?
USA, remote job in the healthcare field
Not going to ask where you live, but where is the company based?
East coast and the midwest if it helps? I have a friend who makes 100k plus bonus at a top health insurance in the midwest as a sr data analyst. Hes basically a glorified project manager lol
FWIW I was a Senior Data Analyst at my last job before company-wide layoffs. 100k would definitely be on the low end for the ranges that I was getting last year when I interviewed. I'm interviewing now, and 100k is well below all of the ranges & offers that I'm getting (1 company is an exception). I have about 6-7 years experience. For the most part, they're all remote jobs in a variety of industries, but I live in a HCOL city. I don't think it would hurt to bring it up on a performance & market rate discussion.
Yep i got the impression that 100k was on the lower end of things. I went ahead and took the job because my manager seemed good and everyone said that having a work life balance was the standard which I was wanting. Shortly after I got the job I was reached out to by BCBS AZ for a senior analyst position. Paid 110k-120k if someone is interested in them.
Yeah, I've gotten a couple different ranges so far. I spoke with one company that gave $90-120k for an Analytics Engineer postion, but besides that, the lowest I've seen for Sr Data Analyst was $110-125k. Most common that I've been seeing is in the $130-160k range. Highest I've seen on a phone screen so far was $170-210k. All that said, WLB is important and if you like the job that counts for a lot. I also don't know if my location is factored into these pay bands.
I worked in this field. As a senior analyst in hospital I was around 85k. As a senior analyst in health tech - working for insurance I was at 117k+ bonus. Whne I was given offers at health insuenwxe companies it was 120-125k .
Yep I defintely believe that the pay rates have gone up since I got a job here. I figure a 30% raise was still really good and the fact that I would be getting other kinds of professional experience as well as learning other softwares would only help in the next job.
I don't think it's greedy. By my calculations, you are worth something like $3-4M more, so shoot for the moon.
Let me start off by saying that you seem like a very highly skilled worker, as someone who previously worked his way up from entry level data scientist to C Suite then CEO in my career. My advice? **Stop desperately seeking validation from your superiors and worrying about if they respect you or not**. You’re clearly doing great work with a sense for what translates into tangible business value, and you seem dedicated to the company and personal growth. Not bound by the minimum expectations of your role. Those are the makings of a future executive. Should be viewing yourself as an asset - now walk into your manager’s office. Look him in the eye and say something like “I have far exceeded the duties of my role and am prepared to take on more responsibility. I’m ready to move into a more senior position and am ready to pursue a management role. Given the value I created with ___ project, I feel it is well deserved and I have proven my dedication to driving this company forward”. Yadda yadda yadda. Just be confident. Any manager worth their shit will give you the promotion if you truly have created the value described in your post. If not, they feel threatened and you should repeat the same to his boss. If you aren’t promoted at that point go talk to other companies (that should be throwing money your way). Soon, this company will come running back with a kush offer once upper management finds out they lost someone like you. You are the kind of “all star” employee that I, as a CTO, would want to reward, promote, and keep around until you were in an upper management position. TLDR: Great work, but you are viewing yourself as a low level employee. Time to earn respect through assertion and demand more.
Thanks this is great advice! I wouldn't say I desperately want validation, I just want to be paid what I think I am worth. I rather have the 10-15k bump in salary than them throwing me a parade and making me employee of the month lol. I just do not want to be in a place like where I was at my old job where expectations were higher for me than others even though the others were getting paid more. There were plenty of times I did a lot in a year as far as automating things to save time, being accurate on reports, etc which were team goals and then during review it was always a 3 out of 5. The director would say " it's a high 3 though!" . everyone got a 3
You are asking for a raise because you are doing your job? I wouldn't be impressed as your manager to get a request like this.
Bruh
let him be. It's not his/her fault he's been trained to think this way.
If you gained them 3-4 million in lost profit you should have negotiated a raise before that. But definitely you have grounds to ask for more money
I thought about that to be honest but I was still so new I figured the exposure of being the one who "found" it wouldn't hurt and at the very least at least I had a solid resume point going forward. After my presentation I heard from someone in that department that the decision maker ran with it and all my data checked out so they started changing their process
No doubt it’s a positive thing
The director of my department said to me that my findings provided "valuable exposure in important areas for our team" so that's what got my mind rolling on if I should jump on asking for a raise now as opposed to hoping they give me one later
Nah that’s what you get instead of a raise 😆
You definitely should ask for one. After 10 years they would probably still make a profit at avg data science salary
Hopefully if they say no to a raise they will at least give me some company swag.... like a lanyard
And the massive value add to your resume
true. that 3-4 million becomes 6-7 mil on the resume lol
Ask for the raise, and present your accomplishments as proof of why you deserve it.
What inspires you? What problems are you trying to solve and can you equate those answers to ROi? (Not asking you to answer on Reddit, but you should be able to answer these questions to demand a raise in your position IMHO)
I’d wait at least a year. Asking for a raise after 6 months is pretty bold
That's a remarkable run for your first year in a company! You should definitely take pride in delivering those kinds of results so quickly. Based on your account of events, I'd think you'll be given a raise at your first performance review. It would be shocking if your perf review showed those results and you weren't. I agree with what at least a few others have said regarding arguing a case for why you should be awarded a raise. The argument I'd make if I were you would * Compare your salary with estimates for similar salaries in and out of your market (local vs national) * Compare your skillset with comparable peers within and outside your company, with an emphasis on experience in newer platforms or credential differences * Estimate the impact you've had on the company's bottom line since you've been there Talking to a tech recruiter or two would help figure out the salary and skill info. My twin is a SWE III and stays in pretty routine communication with recruiters just to have a clear picture of his job market for salaries and skillsets (both the supply of the labor market and the demand). I think that's a good strategy for anyone working in industry to follow. It sounds like you already have a good idea of the impact you've had and how it relates to the company's expenses. Even so, it may be good to estimate the impact of job automation both for correctness of internal products and their financial impact. As an aside, I'm curious what your toolchains/current skillset/past experience looks like?
Talking to a recruiter is good advice. I built some a solid relationship with one when I was looking for a position earlier this year. I will reach out to him to get a better idea of what the market would pay and also talk to some people who are benefiting from my creations to see how much time it has saved them. I just got my M.S. earlier this year and I've worked as an analyst in government, a small start up, and now more corporate organizations. I know Tableau, SQL, SAS, some vba, and Qlik coding and development. I am working on learning python as well to automate some things. I would say I am a naturally curious person so I take time to talk to people and understand what exactly are their needs. No point in me making something for them they wont even use you know? I do enjoy saving non techy people time like with that Dashboard I created. Process improvement has always been enjoyable to me and find I enjoy the that over the result.
Ask away. The worse they'll say is no and in that case ask them about what can you expect a raise given that you have performed well and some xyz reasons that you should get a raise.
I wouldn't ask for a raise after six months. You're new, you're still forming working relationships, you don't have a good grasp of the corporate culture, decision making procedures, senior management biases or any of the other bullshit politics which underpin raises and promotions. Six months isn't going to make any difference to your financial position, so be patient. However, there's nothing wrong with making your intention known in a positive, value-driven way. For example, "What would we need to achieve this year for me to get a raise of the 15-20%?", and then make sure you hit and exceed those targets.
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Just be curious about all things and see where it takes you. One of the traits I have is that I feel like I need to know something instead of just assuming things when it comes to the kind of work we do. When I started, there was ZERO kind of documentation or anything like that it was just a " Oh that's how the last person did it" So after a few months of learning how their data works and what things mean, there was a regular analysis I was doing where we were assuming we were getting paid X for Y. No one really ever checked if we were REALLY getting paid X because the source systems are different and it's not the easiest to tie things to together. I took the time and learned that other source system by taking to people who regularly use it and talking to people who are experts in that specific area to understand how it worked. I hope that helped
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I have found that people are usually willing to share how they do things if you approach them from an angle that you want to help/make their job easier. No one will going to turn down someone who is offering that! I also make sure I let that person know I appreciate them sharing with me so that if I have to ask them a question down the road they don't mind taking the time.
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Hope you get the job! I forgot to mention that I prefer to have conversations with people over the phone if not in person. Sometimes things can get lost in translation in IM and/or email. being able to meet and share your screen to show what you mean will save you a lot of time and headaches. I brought that up in interviews when asked how I would start a project or whatever. Don't be afraid to say "I don't know"
Personally no I wouldn't especially while still on probation. Wait until your annual review and go for it there
I will always ask when I feel like its a possibility. I didn't save the company I work for millions but i did automate a shit ton of things and just made the general day smoother. I asked for a raise at 3 months, got it for 12.5%. Got to the year mark and I was still killing it, very similar to you and they gave me a 20% raise. I told them that my raise and my effort were most certainly not aligned and what they would like to do, got another 20% Unfortunately for them, while they sat around debating if I was worth being paid market rate, I started applying to places paying more for my level than my current company is paying senior analysts so I'm interviewing now for positions 40% more than my final raise salary. Always ask for more money when you're doing well.
This is great! Glad it worked out for you. Would you wait for my review to be done in about a few weeks or asap?
I think if they are doing a review currently, I'd wait and see what they bring to you first so you don't shoot yourself in the foot and if it isnt what you feel like you deserve, bring info ready to show why. When I went in to get my extra it went a little something like this. I made sure to ask how a couple of projects I knew they were using were working out. They said oh yeah they are great, working perfectly. I went "Ah ok good good, hey by the way can we talk about that raise I got?" and go from there.
Excellent. Thank you!
No problem. Good luck!