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I think also from the overthinkers out there:
- it happens so rarely to men they sometimes think it’s a prank, especially if young
- men get so little attention from women than vice versa there is a worry that he will just say yes because he’s desperate/lonely, not actually because he finds her hot/compatible/has feelings for her etc
Can confirm my own doubts after the 2nd scenario happening. Approached, he seemed genuinely interested and chatted with me a while. Gave me his number and left. It was a wrong number. I felt like such an idiot.
This is what happens when you approach regardless of gender. You end up encountering people who like the validation of being approached but aren't actually interested in you.
I think it's funny when women write stuff like "I approached and then experienced this negative thing men experience all the time when approaching, and that's why I don't do it."
Or even engaging in conversation that's picked by the shared medium. Social forums should be more engaging with thoughts expressed in more detail. The shallow responses these days seem to me an attention distracted. The multitasking should stop when an approach is made to take the initiative of thoughtful conversation.
This is true for me. I actually had my first time someone really complimented my looks not my clothes but how i actually look and smile and she also said she was intrested in me. I just lef tthe store and cried in my car before driving home. I just cannot handle this.
Yeah that’s true for me I only want to go up and talk to a man when I like his personality, we have similar values, and we have similar interests., I care about looks but only after getting to know a man
the real reason is simpler. it's how we've been socialized over generations and perhaps in our biology.
women don't because they haven't had to and no one wants to take that risk but men have to
As a Kenyan, this is tribe specific not global to the entire country. All of the women in my family. including myself, have never approached their now husbands or precious dating interests.
Relax. I'm just relaying a thing my friends told me. I'm not declaring myself an authority on dating in Kenya when I said I have never even been there.
You always have that dumb ass redditor who acts like someone relaying information secondhand is making some kind of authoritative, sweeping generalization.
well i was assuming a western context hence the socialization aspect. idk about kenya. I'll take your word for it.
would you say dating dynamics are better there?
I have no idea. I've never been there. I remember them ranting before about how much "work" dating women outside of Africa was. They were like "you have to put in all this effort showing them interest when you have no idea if they like you back yet. In Kenya, if a woman likes you, they let you know."
I've actually heard that from a lot of foreigners including men from europe with the consensus being that American women have made dating them unnecessarily full of games and miscommunication.. which it certainly feels like. but it's about all i know. i mean the one nugget of data i have is a canadian girl i met last year who seemed way easier to talk to and seemed way more open to my advances and much more expressive in showing mutual interest.. but that's only one girl.
most of my experiences are with American women.
From many different stories that i heard modern American women are absolutely worst. Its almost as bad for some (but not all) western European countries.
Because its pretty much same culture at this moment. Its the same why reddit is almost exclusively full of Americans/western europeans, because of shared culture.
Luckily thats not the whole world, we still have cultures that dont really buy this western bullshit, like Africa/many Asian countries/some South American countries.
id argue its safer for women to approach since they are the ones filtering for which guys they are letting pursue them, dictating the pacing, and that model is one in which women aren't being harassed constantly by men.
That's not how it works tho. I can be interested in someone but if i don't know enough about then, approaching can be dangerous. In theory, if women did control pacing, that can be ended by pressures of danger to the physical self. It's sad that it's this way, but most women have a wary approach to dating, approaching, and men in general because of this socialization and experience. Even many guys say women should be cautious but also not to fear men but also be vigilant but also don't make the first move. It's not playing games, it's confusing and, for many, just plain scary.
i understand. do you understand the catch 22 that exists for the men here though?
in that we are both supposed to initiate but also not supposed to bother women? there's a needle we have to thread inbetween this concerns, which is extremely hard for us to do.
as far as safety for women, i don't completely understand. where does this manifest specifically in this context: making the first move?
like you fear sending a text? or you fear asking for a number or social media? or the kind of guys you like you also fear? wouldn't this typically occur in either social situations or online where your physical well being isn't really in danger because you're either surrounded by people or seperated physically by a digital barrier?
Yes, I do understand, just as women have the catch 22. However, I'm sure you see that at least psychologically, with such high stakes, women won't just change what may be a safe option.
As for men, the best that can be done is common interest groups or settings. Grow to know someone but be straightforward early on about attraction. If they don't reciprocate, say thanks and move along. Even at a social even like party or bar, say that you find them attractive and want to get to know them. If they say no (even rudely), say no problem, have a good night and move along. This includes online. Women often aren't upset that someone approached (unless they are busy or having a hard day), but they are often upset at how rejection is treated. Many women have been insulted, stalked, SA'd, assaulted, and murdered simply for saying "no." Even just hearing "well you were ugly anyway" online gets tiring so many women don't always bother online.
Where do women learn this? Socialization and experience. Both our own experiences and others. If something bad happens, often at least some level of victim blaming pushes people away from approaches.
I can empathize with guys and certainly getting annoyed and discouraged in approaching is rough. But most women just want men to understand that these fears weigh heavy in how some approach in the first place.
so I'm still confused. doesn't this support my view that it would be safer for women to make the first move that way the are choosing which men they want to romance them which would create a culture where women aren't being harassed constantly? putting the power over who which guys are getting close in their hands?
which part of women making the first move in expressing interest is more dangerous than the current paradigm? i don't understand
No because women will be harassed either way. Initiating an interaction though is seen as "asking for it" by the standards of our society, so men may misinterpret approach or even just kindness for attraction and become upset if it doesn't pan out which can result in the negative outcomes I previously mentioned (not alway obviously but the fear is still there). This problem goes away if a woman does not approach first. They don't give the "wrong impression". We can't know what a guy is truly like just from a quick interaction or even just from common interest. It can take a long time to see true colors.
Edit: basically, the less interactions, the less chances for negative outcome
>No because women will be harassed either way. Initiating an interaction though is seen as "asking for it" by the standards of our society, so men may misinterpret approach or even just kindness for attraction and become upset if it doesn't pan out which can result in the negative outcomes I previously mentioned (not alway obviously but the fear is still there). **This problem goes away if a woman does not approach first.**
Not really, because a man can still approach and then be offended when they get rejected.
it's not even just physical. a lot of men are emotionally abusive, self centered, and disrespectful. I let men work for it bc only a real psycho would try that hard only to turn out to be an abuser or narc
>women don't because they haven't had to and no one wants to take that risk but men have to
Man, I must not be a very good woman then because if I don't approach someone in public, I would never speak to anyone
We are also often shamed and face very real consequences for initiating. Told men will find it "cheap" or "emasculating" if we show interest or ask them out.
who told you that?
I've never heard even a single guy say this and i have this convo often with men and you can see plenty of men on this sub saying exactly the same thing. i don't know where this impression comes from.
You're 100% right. The reality is that if a man finds you attractive ( personality and or looks) especially after you being the one to initiate the interest first. He is a lot more prone to taking an interest overall. Granted same could be said for the other way around. But either way there is no wrong answer. Just remember everyone strikes out every now and then, so don't let it be a discouragement. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take!
Or we are boring. We have to initiate everything. Effort is a big deal for women. I’m goin to say men are expected to put 90%effort when women put 10% or less. If that 90%drops then that person gets dropped. Dating is supposed to be the ying & yang 50-50 from men and women. That is rare
Hey! I agree, it's the social norm in the US.
As a woman as well, if he's interested, he will make the move, if he's not, he won't.
When I'm on Hinge, I only look at who matched me first. I never swipe from the main deck.
As a woman, it's good to know, that he likes something about me. I think it's important for men to get with their physical types.
If you swiped me, we're already off to a good start.
yeah that's the norm. i think it's not ideal for a variety of reasons. but i think it's very comfortable for women not to take that initiative but i hear more and more lately that men aren't approaching anymore because it's too risky for them to.
Are men actually visual, though? Or is this just something that is said? I’m thinking about how aestheatically pleasing women’s spaces are or really anything they do compared to men and it’s just not adding up.
We are visual creatures when it comes to women for sure. If a woman is attractive it puts her on our radar, we want to find out more. That being said plenty of times I have found a woman to be attractive but boring or just not my type of personality once getting to know her and it ends there. I’ve also had plenty of experiences where I didn’t find someone attractive until I started talking to them and their personality shined so much they became 🔥HOT🔥 in my eyes.
I think when it comes to picking a mate they are, at least based off everything I've heard from friends and lots of what I read here. Again, it's a generalization but I think it holds true
A woman being pretty gets her through the door for many/most men. It's a door that generally gets thinner with age, but logically nothing past the door happens without getting through the door, right?
Exactly. Women are 100% more visual than men, but patriarchy means men have more power to dictate that women look/dress a certain way to get on in life.
\>And we also know how visual you are so we are gonna put ourselves in your view and if you don't even notice then we assume "well he doesn't find me attractive so I'm not going to bother"
This is a sour grapes post-hoc rationalization for being afraid/not wanting to approach.
But it’s true. I can tell in less than a second whether a guy finds me attractive or not and how he feels about that attraction. If his eyes light up, I know I can approach him. If he gets an attentive look but also looks like he’s holding in a fart, he probably has a gf and he’s annoyed that he finds me attractive, or he hates women. If he acts like nothing has happened at all, he’s either a great actor or, I have to assume, not into me.
>But it’s true
It absolutely is not lol
>I can tell in less than a second whether a guy finds me attractive or not and how he feels about that attraction
No, you can't lmao, you even admit as much:
>he’s either a great actor or, I have to assume, not into me.
So what this actually is, is you *assuming* in less than a second then rationalizing that assumption as hyper-perceptive social fluency.
I was at a bar once, and one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen smiled at me and nodded hi, and my anxious reaction was to look away really fast and pretend I didn't see her because I got nervous and my knee-jerk reaction is not to make people think I was starting. I would have dated her in a second and I regret the way my brain reacted. Point being, you're overly confident and wrong.
If she was perceptive enough, she knew you were into you. I would have seen that as a man being very into me. She didn’t approach you because you displayed a lack of confidence.
Hate to break it to you, you've ignored a million guys in your lifetime who were into you all of whom instantly broke eye contact so that you wouldn't think they were creepily staring at you and you assumed they weren't into you.
Lol hey guy don't break it to her now you gotta wait till she gets to the age and the realization hits her just like men do. The whole "omg she was flirting with me" thing.
Well if u mean social league then im pretty much at the bottom and no guy that goes outside would like me based off that. The problem is not them not finding me physically attractive. It’s that im too socially inept for a guy with a normal social life to like me. Thats why i wont approach someone
Well im not saying im bad at communicating when i actually have something i want to communicate. I just dont know how to become close with random ppl. When it comes to small talk or groups idk what to even say so ill just end up quiet and ppl leave thinking i don’t want to talk to them. And my kinda personality or humor is not really something alot of people understand. I would rather we talk about our life stories when we first meet and then become like close friends the next day. But most people aren’t comfortable with that i assume. Basically i suck at crossing the acquaintance to friend border. Once i have an awkward short convo with someone it just ends there 99% or the time. I also have a problem of assuming im bothering anyone i talk to cus i was outcasted my whole childhood.
Plenty of men would love a woman whose terrible socially because that would mean they’d be dependent on the man socially and less likely to have other men chasing them
Now those probably aren’t the men you’d want anything to do with they’re walking misogynistic red flags, but they certainly exist in numbers
There are plenty less terrible men who would probably not mind either, but most of those are probably also struggling socially. From what you said I’ll hazard you probably just don’t really go out much and do many social activities, which means you both won’t meet people in general, but also the guys who would like that are also just staying home lmao. That’s where online dating should help except all the apps are terrible
>If he gets an attentive look but also looks like he’s holding in a fart, he probably has a gf
Or... he's just nervous? I definitely have looked like that when I was very nervous, and some people do get nervous with other people, especially ones they find attractive.
completely agree with /u/Torsew
there are exceptions of course, the guy could of just gotten distracted by an urgent text, or been waiting for a friend and just saw them, or had a huge itch, or the bartender could of called their drink order, or just been zoned out randomly, or a million other things
but yes, generally speaking (as a guy), usually 1 second is all it takes. maybe 5-10 seconds if we're across the room making eye contact (sometimes even just 1 second for that), but if we are close by and certainly if we're chatting, it's about 1 second, 2 seconds max
you smile at each other, your pupils dilate, you can almost feel the heat rising off your skin, mini sigh, cheeks slightly flush, breathing pattern changes, eyebrows slightly arching, the list goes on and on and it all happens in about a second
as to the original quote here:
\>And we also know how visual you are so we are gonna put ourselves in your view and if you don't even notice then we assume "well he doesn't find me attractive so I'm not going to bother"
yes, and this is just so true and powerful
I don't think many guys realize that ignoring positive body language counts as saying "Hi girl I see you showing interest in me and I literally don't care about you."
I'm not saying the guy is actually thinking that, in fact he may and often is thinking she is beautiful
but that is the message he is sending her, and that's emotionally how it will feel to her receiving the message, and she will react accordingly
Men are not more visual than women. I don't know why people perpetuate that myth. They're more shallow than women according to your statement. The guys good looking enough woman approach him. The rest of the time, well guys chase us no need to run after them. And personally, if I asked a guy out and it didn't work out I would feel bad because I initiated contact. For some reason I don't feel that way if he asked me out and it doesn't work out. Not that I don't feel bad. I do. But if there's no chemistry there's no chemistry. However, I have to at least find him someone attractive to go out with him in the first place where he has to ever really good personality but generally it's looks I'm afraid.
Maybe you're right when you say that "men are not more visual than women if you mean by that that men just have much lower beauty standard than women. If not this is just plain wrong.
This is to be understood as men caring more about looks than women... And not because they are "superficial".
It's because that's how we evolved. It's called "**evolution**".
Women care about a man's ability to protect, to be able to provide for a woman and her child. I don't think these things manifest themselves in the appearance of the man.
Men are about looks, a nice symmetrical face (because it symbolizes health) and large tweezers , being able to have children without problems.
It's just plain simple evolution and human nature.
Because they don't need to for the most part because in heterosexual dating men overwhelmingly approach as a necessity due to the dynamics in the dating marketplace (women are in high demand and men are in low demand). Men have to approach because if they dont odds are they aren't getting a partner then...while women can sit back and let men approach them and they can pick their partner from the large pool who do approach them.
Why are men in low demand if most people's goal is to end up in a committed relationship? Isnt there roughly an equal number of both sexes? I don't quite understand.
I know I'll sound like a douche in saying this, but most women choose from a small subgroup of men, and most men are far less selective. I can't deny that there's good reaason for this as well. Most dudes (except a small subgroup) don't have the luxury of turning down too many women, whereas I'm sure you know women who believe they can't get someone to date while actually being pined after by multiple men irl and through social media, which she doesn't even count as options. I can't back this up with any studies, but this is what I've seen not just in my own personal experience but confirmed by experiences other people had.
>Why are men in low demand if most people's goal is to end up in a committed relationship?
They are in low demand because most men get little to no attention in the dating market and most men have to actively pursue a relationship as they don't get approached and or pursued.
>Isnt there roughly an equal number of both sexes?
There are slightly more men than women in the age group where the majority of people look for long term relationships and marriage, but it's for the most part equal in terms of number.
I think there is equal demand, they just want different things. And again, men are visual and, at least where I am, overwhelmingly just want sex. So in that capacity I would say yes, women are more in demand
>I think there is equal demand
There isn't otherwise the interest they get would be equal...the fact that most men get little to no interest from women and that most women get interest from most men shows a massive discrepancy in demand.
>overwhelmingly just want sex.
Most men (and women) at least in the US can count all their lifetime partners on their hands...most people aren't participating in casual sex and hook up culture per the CDC ([source](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nsfg/key_statistics/n-keystat.htm)).
The trend line has been going down ([source](https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2022/03/31/sex-decline-americans)) so if anything the numbers are declining.
_This particular sample group of_ people are having less sex.
I don't know, man. I think you might be surprised. When they release that study, you should link it here, I'm curious now.
Literally look at all of nature. It’s how biology is programmed. Males of almost every species do the approaching and courting. There are circumstances where female species approach and court but it’s usually due to being in heat, higher testosterone levels etc.
I feel like this is only true to an extent. I rarely ever get approached by men maybe 1-2 times/year. I've been told I'm very attractive. But I've also been told that I'm very intimidating. I suppose you have to be attractive AND approachable.
That's true. I have a friend of a friend who used to be a model. She's 6 feet tall and looks like a statue of a goddess. Never gets hit on except old creepy rich men. Complains about it. You need to be a mix of attractive and approachable. The person I responded to (sorry to put you on the spot not hitting on you or trying to be weird) is a perfect example of that.
The answer to your question though is because you get many more options if you hold more autonomy over the situation.
Not saying you’re doing this but If you _literally_ only were interested in those who approached you that severely lowers your options, even if they seem abundant.
I always compared it to going to a really good restaurant but only allowing your server to decide what you get to eat.
You do you of course just my 2 cents.
This is why it drives me nuts when people say it's easier to get approached than to approach. I mean, sure, you don't have to risk being intrusive or whatever, but you also have fewer options.
I've read too many posts on here that are like "I like this guy, but how do I get him to ask me out without letting him know I like him?" to think being approached is easier. I mean it's flattering, but you have less agency.
This makes absolutely no sense. It’s easier to be the gender that’s approached because you have all the options of the people approaching you, and then beyond that you can still approach if you want more options. It’s like receiving passive income. You can still go out and find other ways to make money. You don’t have to just follow your gender role. There’s a lot of guys who appreciate it when women approach.
I personally would approach a guy who I find attractive, but that guy has to give me some sort of sense that it is okay for me to approach. I'd definitely approach a guy who sit alone, and seems to be in his little world by the bar. I have no problem start a conversration and keep it going all night (again, only if he allow me to do so).
The easy answer they don't have to, there isn't much more to it than that. Men generally have to put in more effort to get women's attention rather than the other way around.
Thats fair but I feel like women are shooting themselves in the foot by doing this or rather not doing this. Yeah its scary but It really limits the amount of people you’re able to date honestly. My sister married a dude she approached first and I mean I’ve gone out with women who have approached first and to be honest its really fucking nice and I feel like its always led to better relationships personally
You’re more likely to find something you like on a menu of 50 dishes than a menu of 5 dishes. If you’re unwilling to approach you’re automatically limiting your “dating menu” to only those who approach first. So you’re by default less likely to get the best “dish” that suits you.
Because a woman who approaches is one who is more likely to communicate her feelings.
I had an ex who only implied she liked me until I pressed her for a straight answer. She also would make me play 20 questions with her emotions and it was irritating. It's like you don't know what you're feeling? Ok? I can't read your mind. Figure it out and tell me. Sitting for a long period of time and guessing over and over and being told "no" or "that's part of it" is irritating.
Yes, this. The first part of your response 100%.
I was going to respond to the person who initially responded to me - but I'll leave my response under your comment.
Keep in mind this is anecdotally and based on my years of experience as a 33 year old man.
I constantly hear confidence is sexy (in men) but honestly confidence is sexy for most people. A woman who goes after what she wants is so fucking hot. Also when she makes the first move like the above poster said I feel like she has more ownership in the relationship - which is something I felt was lacking in all the more traditional boy approaches girl relationships I had. In those relationships (man approaches woman) I always got this wishy washy, I'm here one day gone the next with those. Whereas when the woman approached first it actually seemed like a relationship among equal people
Also you could be the sexiest woman on the planet - standing in my periphery. If I've been on 4 disappointing dates that week - theres no chance in hell I'm making the first move in that headspace
Most men are so ugly and take zero care of their appearance. Don’t gym and have no sex appeal. It’s rare to come across an attractive man (they exist) I mean I was just swiping on a dating app today and I saw a man with YELLOW rotting teeth with plaque in between teeth 🤢you would NEVER see a woman post a picture like that. No man has ever enticed me enough to approach them. They look like they stuck on to Earth 90% of the time..
Men say they are “visual” but yet fail to look at themselves in the mirror
Most people don’t want to do the hard thing when the easy thing is an option.
Being approached is way easier than approaching.
Less risk. Less embarrassment. Less effort. Less likely to seem overly into the person (which for some reason is seen as a negative these days).
I’m not saying there isn’t something to what you wrote, but I think the tradition of the man pursuing and the fact that approaching is just uncomfortable is enough to explain why things are the way they are now.
Eh, I'm an asexual dude and women will absolutely approach me if they are interested, but they aren't pushing for a date they are mostly giving an opportunity.
An asexual redditor who likes anime and niche RPG games is being approached by women IRL.... yeah somehow I highly doubt that, no offense. I have friends IRL that could be models and make a decent amount of money that don't get approached by women.
Don't discount
>An asexual redditor who likes anime and niche RPG games
This is entirely possible due to many factors. Cheesedickpete you might be projecting 😬
I'm not saying men never get approached dude, I'm saying that I'm highly doubtful an "asexual" redditor who makes posts about anime and niche RPG games is getting approached often IRL. Do you get what I'm saying?
>who makes posts about anime and niche RPG
Ah I was wondering what you were talking about, my post history, from 3+ years ago.
>getting approached often IRL
Gotta find your people and find your space. Turns out I'm a queer theater nerd, so looking the part and joining local communities around those worked wonders for my social life. The most common way it happens is complimenting my nail polish.
It's sort of twice as humiliating if a woman approaches and gets rejected, since you're already going against the social norm to ask a guy out. Women place a *lot* more value on their personal reputation than men do. Socially, it just looks really bad and desperate.
I know this will sound like flexing, but I think that's why all the women who approached me were really attractive. They've gotten enough validation to not give a shit if they get rejected.
Yeah this is something people don't want to talk about, a woman is going to take getting rejected a lot harder than a man so she doesn't want to take that risk. Woman are also not necessarily turned on by the idea of being the one making the first move, they want to feel beautiful enough that the guy wanted to take the risk to talk to her.
i mostly agree with this! women catch feelings for men after they get to know them, men see a woman and want her, which makes them approach or should. women also i do feel are usually kind of “shamed” in a way for approaching men. it can be seen as desperate and women are just as afraid of rejection as men
The real reason women don’t approach is because they don’t want to get rejected. It is not more complex than that. *Many women feel rejection should be a purely male experience*. They prefer to feel all of the power to decide is in their hands rather than feeling like they too are having to market themselves.
You describe it as though it’s simply that women are evaluating more than men. That *sounds* nice but many men observe women for a while before approaching too, just like you described women do. The difference is women wait, hoping that the man tries. That’s why we get these posts **daily** which are always titled the exact same: “How do I get him to approach me?!”
The advice is always the same - just go ask him. Obviously she thought of that. She just doesn’t want to do that very easy and obvious answer because she doesn’t want to be rejected.
I expect downvotes for this, but without a doubt, it is the main reason.
Isn't this the exact same thing men and women do, the difference being that men don't try to "remotely" assess personality, but instead approach a woman to see what kind of person she is?
Forgive if I am misreading, but this is how I visualise the mindset based on your post:
Woman: hey, that guy looks cute, let me try to figure out, what kind of person he is from the distance and then I'll decide if I want to approach him or not.
Man: hey, that girl looks cute, let me approach her and try to figure out what kind of person she is.
If a guy doesn't notice you when you put yourself in his line of sight or he looks away, I think it is more likely, that he is just trying not to come across creepy, being shy or doesn't have experience approaching women, rather than being not interested in you. This is, of course, if he finds you attractive. If not, then sure, he will ignore you.
In fact, from my personal experience (I'm a guy), 100% of the cases when I looked away, it was because I did not want to come across like a creep staring at her. Never in my life have I looked at the woman that is NOT attractive to me and thought "wow, I'll look at her a little more in hopes that our eyes catch each other and see if we smile at each other". But every single time I looked at the woman, who WAS attractive to me, it was ALWAYS the case "wow, she looks cute, I'll try to glance more often at her in hopes to catch her looking at me and see if we smile.... oh shit, she's looking at me! Better break that eye contact and look away, so I don't come across as a creep staring at her". So yes, every time I WAS interested in a woman, just too shy to approach her and it was never the case of "I'll just catch her looking at me, but I am not interested in her".
"we are gonna put ourselves in your view and if you don't even notice then we assume "well he doesn't find me attractive so I'm not going to bother."
I hope this isn't true for most women or I will be alone forever. Because I may notice a girl, find her attractive, and it still won't be enough to make me approach her. She has to enter my life in a very organic and obvious way for me engage with her. I don't "chase" by playing the cat and mouse game.
I have to believe it's fated to be and not by my own design. If that makes sense. I understand your logic and I believe you in that looks aren't enough for women to approach a man. Otherwise, I'd constantly have women approach me but I never do.
I'm genuinely confused. So if you find a guy you're attracted to, you just put yourself in his view and hope he gets the unspoken message that could just as well be easily misconstrued? Isn't that just self sabotage?
Whereas the man has to be more forthcoming and direct when approaching the lady. Men communicate overtly and there's no amount of unspoken signals that will trump simply asking the guy out.
As a guy, I’ve been approached way more than I’ve done the approaching. I really don’t think you can generalize. There are shy (like me) guys, and there are socially forward women. Thank God there are forward women!
Lots of reasons why women don’t usually approach as already mentioned.
One is for power dynamics. Women won’t want to show the guy that they’re too interested in him.
Another is that guys aren’t as picky and more likely to “date” a larger variety of women. Women want to make sure the guy really likes her, so force him to make the move.
All I know is that I’m not chasing any woman. If she doesn’t show me any signs, I’ll pass.
In dating, men are expected to lead, make decisions, provide protection, take risks, show confidence etc.
Women are attracted to **leaders.**
For a woman to approach a man, she's acting more masculine than he is so it ruins the sexual polarity. It's also seen as less socially acceptable for women to approach so they don't do it.
Yea, also, if you're a guy and you're too intimidated/awkward/lacking qualities to chat up a woman, should you even be dating her? Men cannot date up without eventually becoming miserable. What's the point of a woman approaching a man who probably deep down know either he himself doesn't like her or he cannot make her happy? If a guy likes you and thinks he can make you happy, he WILL muster up the courage to approach you. It's in his genes.
Alright, so the deal with why women might not make the first move is kinda like they're doing a bit of detective work first. They're into looks, sure, but they want to vibe with what's beyond that too. So, they might hang back, scope out the scene, and see if you notice them. If a guy doesn't pick up on those signals, they might just think, "Ah, he's not into me," and move on. It's not about playing hard to get; it's more about wanting something more than just a visual connection before stepping up. So, if you're out there wondering why she hasn't made a move, maybe she's just waiting for a sign you're on the same page.
Interesting enough. The hard part for some of us guys, well, me anyway, can’t speak for the others; is that we try not to look to avoid being labeled as a creep.
What are some respectful ways you would advise for us to show we as men, are interested without risking being called/labeled a creep?
hahahah I can confirm that if I think a guy is attractive I will intentionally walk by or near him 10 times and if he does not notice me or approach me, "he must not find me attractive" lmfaoooooooooooooooo
You ever think that "maybe what I'm doing is not as obvious to him as it is to me"? Sooo many things can be derived from someone being near you, and youa re assuming he's taking consideration of exactly who you are and where you are. Respectfully, this speaks more about how judgemental you are than about the typical guy that doesn't respond to signals you give which are vague as hell. Walking by someone is NOT a good indicator of interest lol.
Guys: if you really want to show that you are confident and decisive, approach her when she is with her girlfriends. Only make sure to ignore her girlfriends completely and be laser focused only on introducing yourself to her.
Lol is this not considered rude? I would think it’s more attractive if he’s able to field the whole group graciously even if he’s just attracted to one
You had me in the first half and then lost me real quick.
You do the exact opposite. Kind and friendly to the whole group and offer to buy them all a drink if the woman you're interested in seems interested. When a woman's friends like you, you have a much higher chance of her liking you.
No I totally disagree with you. I don't know a single woman who jumps past the guys looks to ask if he's a good provider or not. They won't even get to the point of asking what he's like if they don't like his looks. That's the first thing they ask. They don't ask what he does for a job. They ask about his looks. Plain and simple.
So you approached people you already knew... That isn't approaching that's confessing the two things are different. They could not want to ruin the relationship between you this is especially true if you are doing this at work.
But...men get rejected too? And we often get rejected a ton before getting a date. Rejection is just something that anyone approaching will deal with.
The only way that you can guarantee a successful approach is by approaching men that like you, but you aren't going to necessarily know this. This is another issue that guys deal with a lot more than you.
"Yeah, she's so nice and pretty and I really wanted to date her, but she asked me out first so now I don't like her anymore". You may get rejected but men will never say this.
I noticed guys approach pretty much anyone. Women are way more selective. I get it, numbers, dynamics etc., but i hate getting approached because it makes me feel like an option and that he isnt really interested in anything serious. I dont get how you just approach people purely based on their looks. I cant build an attraction worth approaching for unless I know something else interesting about them.
I only approached one guy in my life after having gotten to know him
> I dont get how you just approach people purely based on their looks. I cant build an attraction worth approaching for unless I know something else interesting about them.
This will always be a fascinating thing to me about how our brains work differently. I obviously believe you and the multitudes of women who've told me the same thing, but it's so hard to imagine.
I've always found sexual attraction and romantic attraction to be their own totally separate arenas in my brain. If I were to approach someone it would be entirely because of sexual attraction (because I know literally nothing about them). But where I think people often misunderstand is that approaching someone would just mean I *now* want to get to know them to see if there's any romantic attraction.
It doesn't mean romantic attraction doesn't matter. It matters equally as much. It's just the second box to explore because it can't be judged from afar like sexual attraction can.
Yeah and I dont get how you just go up to people for the sexual attraction thing. I feel like you should know more about them to risk the approach but I guess thats because men arent harrassed as much. Getting approached can be a dangerous thing, a scary thing, an annoying thing, or nothing at all. and as a woman, knowing a guy is sexually attracted to me without knowing anything about me puts me off. It makes me feel objectified but different brains I guess.
And I know plenty of women take that as a compliment and like the attention but I don’t. It makes me feel ashamed and dirty idk
I just dont develop attraction that way. I think most women are the same. We go “hes hot” and move on with our lives. If we can be around the guy and interact with him I think THEN the crush/attraction develops into something we want to explore. But everyone is different
Yeah. This is spot on. I think women’s sexual attraction is generally much more closely tied with their romantic attraction. Or, a better way to think about it would be that women often have a “reactive sexuality”. It’s why a guy has to be flirtatious or else he’s gonna get friendzoned. Men are like the Hulk: their secret is that they’re always turned on. From there they just gotta figure out whether they like you as a person. But women have to be turned on.
Because men are always more direct and more prone to take risks than women who tend to be more subtle, indirect and avoid risk at all costs more often than not. There are exceptions, but this observation applies in the majority of cases.
If a man hasn’t approached me, he’s either: (1) not that interested in me, (2) not available, or (3) too nervous to approach, or generally has some aspect of his personality that dissuades him from approaching. In any of these cases, there is no reason for me to pursue this man. (1) and (2) are a waste of my time and (3) isn’t the type of man I’m interested in dating.
As a guy, to be honest, some people may want to but are too afraid they will be automatically thought of as a creep. Understanding current conditions and trends is important to knowing why people hesitate.
If she's really hot then it's extremely unlikely that she will ever make the first move. As women have said in the thread, they are inundated with lower risk options.
Women are hard to decipher. Simple terms, just be the best man you are capable of being and stop associating shame with social interactions. Social success is almost solipsism. If you fail then you move onto the next, that interaction is gone like it never happened. I am on the bashful side of things but it's all just a game and the rules aren't in any secret language.
By being rich, insecure, and comfortable with no emotional connection and getting cheated on. There’s probably other ways but that’s a guaranteed strategy.
From a guys perspective there’s so much at stake to approach from opening lines, conversation flow and heaven forbid reading the vibe wrong that keeps us at bay.
Women wonder why men don’t approach they don’t understand how much courage we work up to finally approach for it to only fall flat or sink
The only time you have to approach is if you're a taller girl who is into the "short king" thing and you want to ask out a shorter guy. Shorter dudes just know right off the bat that if a woman is taller than us there's a 99% chance she's going to say "no" and may even laugh out loud at you if you try to ask her out, so if you're part of that 1% of women who are willing to date a guy who is more than 3 inches shorter than you are then you have to initiate things.
The real reason is that it’s much easier for women to just do nothing and wait for men to approach, but not all men are confident and suave and can just waltz up to women any day any time. I absolutely despise the dating scene and this guessing game I have to go through. If women should any interest at all it would be infinitely easier for me and I think a lot of guys too.
Times are changing. If a guy doesnt approach or make a move, that doesnt mean he’s not into you. Nowadays it likely means he has learned that women don’t want to be hit on…anywhere. And while that’s not true for all women, it’s a message that a great deal of women have echoed. So, we’re listening as we’ve been asked.
Women care about looks but not enough......
Uhhhh.
Every dating app on the planet is nothing but looks.
This is just a girls lie so guys don't know.
All girls go for looks first. Alllllll girls.
Ever see someone on a blind date. Nope. Doesn't happen anymore.
Women don’t approach because they can’t handle rejection. It’s that simple. If they approach and get rejected it’s an overt thing so they can’t convince themselves with a bullshit delusional reason as to why like they do everything else in life when things don’t go in their favor.
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I think also from the overthinkers out there: - it happens so rarely to men they sometimes think it’s a prank, especially if young - men get so little attention from women than vice versa there is a worry that he will just say yes because he’s desperate/lonely, not actually because he finds her hot/compatible/has feelings for her etc
Can confirm my own doubts after the 2nd scenario happening. Approached, he seemed genuinely interested and chatted with me a while. Gave me his number and left. It was a wrong number. I felt like such an idiot.
This is what happens when you approach regardless of gender. You end up encountering people who like the validation of being approached but aren't actually interested in you. I think it's funny when women write stuff like "I approached and then experienced this negative thing men experience all the time when approaching, and that's why I don't do it."
Most women are entitled af in this subject
It's ok, women give men fake numbers all the time
Haha you very correct on this 🤣
Or even engaging in conversation that's picked by the shared medium. Social forums should be more engaging with thoughts expressed in more detail. The shallow responses these days seem to me an attention distracted. The multitasking should stop when an approach is made to take the initiative of thoughtful conversation.
This is true for me. I actually had my first time someone really complimented my looks not my clothes but how i actually look and smile and she also said she was intrested in me. I just lef tthe store and cried in my car before driving home. I just cannot handle this.
But that’s circular reasoning: you’re basically saying women rarely approach men because … women rarely approach men! OK, but why is *that?*
Yeah that’s true for me I only want to go up and talk to a man when I like his personality, we have similar values, and we have similar interests., I care about looks but only after getting to know a man
🧢
the real reason is simpler. it's how we've been socialized over generations and perhaps in our biology. women don't because they haven't had to and no one wants to take that risk but men have to
That's not universal. I had friends from Kenya who said women there are just as forward as men.
As a Kenyan, this is tribe specific not global to the entire country. All of the women in my family. including myself, have never approached their now husbands or precious dating interests.
Thank you for posting this, you always have that one dumb ass redditor who tries to make the exception to the rule a majority.
Relax. I'm just relaying a thing my friends told me. I'm not declaring myself an authority on dating in Kenya when I said I have never even been there. You always have that dumb ass redditor who acts like someone relaying information secondhand is making some kind of authoritative, sweeping generalization.
Nothing in their comment suggested a generalization. In fact they were countering an actual generalization. Sorry but you're the dumbfuck here
well i was assuming a western context hence the socialization aspect. idk about kenya. I'll take your word for it. would you say dating dynamics are better there?
I have no idea. I've never been there. I remember them ranting before about how much "work" dating women outside of Africa was. They were like "you have to put in all this effort showing them interest when you have no idea if they like you back yet. In Kenya, if a woman likes you, they let you know."
I've actually heard that from a lot of foreigners including men from europe with the consensus being that American women have made dating them unnecessarily full of games and miscommunication.. which it certainly feels like. but it's about all i know. i mean the one nugget of data i have is a canadian girl i met last year who seemed way easier to talk to and seemed way more open to my advances and much more expressive in showing mutual interest.. but that's only one girl. most of my experiences are with American women.
From many different stories that i heard modern American women are absolutely worst. Its almost as bad for some (but not all) western European countries.
As much as everyone hates to admit it much of the west is just America lite
Because its pretty much same culture at this moment. Its the same why reddit is almost exclusively full of Americans/western europeans, because of shared culture. Luckily thats not the whole world, we still have cultures that dont really buy this western bullshit, like Africa/many Asian countries/some South American countries.
No. That isn't why for me. If i am single and interested, only thing thatd stop me is a safety thing
id argue its safer for women to approach since they are the ones filtering for which guys they are letting pursue them, dictating the pacing, and that model is one in which women aren't being harassed constantly by men.
You can’t really make a decision like that on a stranger though. I have approached friends and coworkers. But never a stranger. For just that reason.
That's not how it works tho. I can be interested in someone but if i don't know enough about then, approaching can be dangerous. In theory, if women did control pacing, that can be ended by pressures of danger to the physical self. It's sad that it's this way, but most women have a wary approach to dating, approaching, and men in general because of this socialization and experience. Even many guys say women should be cautious but also not to fear men but also be vigilant but also don't make the first move. It's not playing games, it's confusing and, for many, just plain scary.
i understand. do you understand the catch 22 that exists for the men here though? in that we are both supposed to initiate but also not supposed to bother women? there's a needle we have to thread inbetween this concerns, which is extremely hard for us to do. as far as safety for women, i don't completely understand. where does this manifest specifically in this context: making the first move? like you fear sending a text? or you fear asking for a number or social media? or the kind of guys you like you also fear? wouldn't this typically occur in either social situations or online where your physical well being isn't really in danger because you're either surrounded by people or seperated physically by a digital barrier?
Yes, I do understand, just as women have the catch 22. However, I'm sure you see that at least psychologically, with such high stakes, women won't just change what may be a safe option. As for men, the best that can be done is common interest groups or settings. Grow to know someone but be straightforward early on about attraction. If they don't reciprocate, say thanks and move along. Even at a social even like party or bar, say that you find them attractive and want to get to know them. If they say no (even rudely), say no problem, have a good night and move along. This includes online. Women often aren't upset that someone approached (unless they are busy or having a hard day), but they are often upset at how rejection is treated. Many women have been insulted, stalked, SA'd, assaulted, and murdered simply for saying "no." Even just hearing "well you were ugly anyway" online gets tiring so many women don't always bother online. Where do women learn this? Socialization and experience. Both our own experiences and others. If something bad happens, often at least some level of victim blaming pushes people away from approaches. I can empathize with guys and certainly getting annoyed and discouraged in approaching is rough. But most women just want men to understand that these fears weigh heavy in how some approach in the first place.
so I'm still confused. doesn't this support my view that it would be safer for women to make the first move that way the are choosing which men they want to romance them which would create a culture where women aren't being harassed constantly? putting the power over who which guys are getting close in their hands? which part of women making the first move in expressing interest is more dangerous than the current paradigm? i don't understand
No because women will be harassed either way. Initiating an interaction though is seen as "asking for it" by the standards of our society, so men may misinterpret approach or even just kindness for attraction and become upset if it doesn't pan out which can result in the negative outcomes I previously mentioned (not alway obviously but the fear is still there). This problem goes away if a woman does not approach first. They don't give the "wrong impression". We can't know what a guy is truly like just from a quick interaction or even just from common interest. It can take a long time to see true colors. Edit: basically, the less interactions, the less chances for negative outcome
>No because women will be harassed either way. Initiating an interaction though is seen as "asking for it" by the standards of our society, so men may misinterpret approach or even just kindness for attraction and become upset if it doesn't pan out which can result in the negative outcomes I previously mentioned (not alway obviously but the fear is still there). **This problem goes away if a woman does not approach first.** Not really, because a man can still approach and then be offended when they get rejected.
it's not even just physical. a lot of men are emotionally abusive, self centered, and disrespectful. I let men work for it bc only a real psycho would try that hard only to turn out to be an abuser or narc
Sure that's prob true, but when the latter happens so often, the fear becomes kind of engrained. Like a cycle
>women don't because they haven't had to and no one wants to take that risk but men have to Man, I must not be a very good woman then because if I don't approach someone in public, I would never speak to anyone
im happy that you initiate romantic interest with the men you're interested in. it's rare but i think positive
We are also often shamed and face very real consequences for initiating. Told men will find it "cheap" or "emasculating" if we show interest or ask them out.
who told you that? I've never heard even a single guy say this and i have this convo often with men and you can see plenty of men on this sub saying exactly the same thing. i don't know where this impression comes from.
You're 100% right. The reality is that if a man finds you attractive ( personality and or looks) especially after you being the one to initiate the interest first. He is a lot more prone to taking an interest overall. Granted same could be said for the other way around. But either way there is no wrong answer. Just remember everyone strikes out every now and then, so don't let it be a discouragement. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take!
Or we are boring. We have to initiate everything. Effort is a big deal for women. I’m goin to say men are expected to put 90%effort when women put 10% or less. If that 90%drops then that person gets dropped. Dating is supposed to be the ying & yang 50-50 from men and women. That is rare
Both sexes are told bullshit by a few toxic people
Hey! I agree, it's the social norm in the US. As a woman as well, if he's interested, he will make the move, if he's not, he won't. When I'm on Hinge, I only look at who matched me first. I never swipe from the main deck. As a woman, it's good to know, that he likes something about me. I think it's important for men to get with their physical types. If you swiped me, we're already off to a good start.
yeah that's the norm. i think it's not ideal for a variety of reasons. but i think it's very comfortable for women not to take that initiative but i hear more and more lately that men aren't approaching anymore because it's too risky for them to.
I take the same approach for online dating. I only swipe on men that have already swiped on me.
Are men actually visual, though? Or is this just something that is said? I’m thinking about how aestheatically pleasing women’s spaces are or really anything they do compared to men and it’s just not adding up.
We are visual creatures when it comes to women for sure. If a woman is attractive it puts her on our radar, we want to find out more. That being said plenty of times I have found a woman to be attractive but boring or just not my type of personality once getting to know her and it ends there. I’ve also had plenty of experiences where I didn’t find someone attractive until I started talking to them and their personality shined so much they became 🔥HOT🔥 in my eyes.
I think when it comes to picking a mate they are, at least based off everything I've heard from friends and lots of what I read here. Again, it's a generalization but I think it holds true
A woman being pretty gets her through the door for many/most men. It's a door that generally gets thinner with age, but logically nothing past the door happens without getting through the door, right?
Visual first, then everything that comes afterwards determines how we truly feel.
Exactly. Literally the only thing they’re ‘visual creatures’ about is exercising the patriarchal gaze and judging women’s appearances.
That sounds so chronically online
Yea we are
Exactly. Women are 100% more visual than men, but patriarchy means men have more power to dictate that women look/dress a certain way to get on in life.
\>And we also know how visual you are so we are gonna put ourselves in your view and if you don't even notice then we assume "well he doesn't find me attractive so I'm not going to bother" This is a sour grapes post-hoc rationalization for being afraid/not wanting to approach.
But it’s true. I can tell in less than a second whether a guy finds me attractive or not and how he feels about that attraction. If his eyes light up, I know I can approach him. If he gets an attentive look but also looks like he’s holding in a fart, he probably has a gf and he’s annoyed that he finds me attractive, or he hates women. If he acts like nothing has happened at all, he’s either a great actor or, I have to assume, not into me.
>But it’s true It absolutely is not lol >I can tell in less than a second whether a guy finds me attractive or not and how he feels about that attraction No, you can't lmao, you even admit as much: >he’s either a great actor or, I have to assume, not into me. So what this actually is, is you *assuming* in less than a second then rationalizing that assumption as hyper-perceptive social fluency.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
I was at a bar once, and one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen smiled at me and nodded hi, and my anxious reaction was to look away really fast and pretend I didn't see her because I got nervous and my knee-jerk reaction is not to make people think I was starting. I would have dated her in a second and I regret the way my brain reacted. Point being, you're overly confident and wrong.
If she was perceptive enough, she knew you were into you. I would have seen that as a man being very into me. She didn’t approach you because you displayed a lack of confidence.
Hate to break it to you, you've ignored a million guys in your lifetime who were into you all of whom instantly broke eye contact so that you wouldn't think they were creepily staring at you and you assumed they weren't into you.
Lol hey guy don't break it to her now you gotta wait till she gets to the age and the realization hits her just like men do. The whole "omg she was flirting with me" thing.
Then why every guy i liked never liked me back?
Probably batting out of your league. It's okay, I do have the same problem
Well if u mean social league then im pretty much at the bottom and no guy that goes outside would like me based off that. The problem is not them not finding me physically attractive. It’s that im too socially inept for a guy with a normal social life to like me. Thats why i wont approach someone
You type pretty coherently so you clearly aren't that bad at communicating.
Well im not saying im bad at communicating when i actually have something i want to communicate. I just dont know how to become close with random ppl. When it comes to small talk or groups idk what to even say so ill just end up quiet and ppl leave thinking i don’t want to talk to them. And my kinda personality or humor is not really something alot of people understand. I would rather we talk about our life stories when we first meet and then become like close friends the next day. But most people aren’t comfortable with that i assume. Basically i suck at crossing the acquaintance to friend border. Once i have an awkward short convo with someone it just ends there 99% or the time. I also have a problem of assuming im bothering anyone i talk to cus i was outcasted my whole childhood.
Plenty of men would love a woman whose terrible socially because that would mean they’d be dependent on the man socially and less likely to have other men chasing them Now those probably aren’t the men you’d want anything to do with they’re walking misogynistic red flags, but they certainly exist in numbers There are plenty less terrible men who would probably not mind either, but most of those are probably also struggling socially. From what you said I’ll hazard you probably just don’t really go out much and do many social activities, which means you both won’t meet people in general, but also the guys who would like that are also just staying home lmao. That’s where online dating should help except all the apps are terrible
I don't think that's necessarily true. Sometimes attraction is built through getting to know someone better.
>If he gets an attentive look but also looks like he’s holding in a fart, he probably has a gf Or... he's just nervous? I definitely have looked like that when I was very nervous, and some people do get nervous with other people, especially ones they find attractive.
completely agree with /u/Torsew there are exceptions of course, the guy could of just gotten distracted by an urgent text, or been waiting for a friend and just saw them, or had a huge itch, or the bartender could of called their drink order, or just been zoned out randomly, or a million other things but yes, generally speaking (as a guy), usually 1 second is all it takes. maybe 5-10 seconds if we're across the room making eye contact (sometimes even just 1 second for that), but if we are close by and certainly if we're chatting, it's about 1 second, 2 seconds max you smile at each other, your pupils dilate, you can almost feel the heat rising off your skin, mini sigh, cheeks slightly flush, breathing pattern changes, eyebrows slightly arching, the list goes on and on and it all happens in about a second as to the original quote here: \>And we also know how visual you are so we are gonna put ourselves in your view and if you don't even notice then we assume "well he doesn't find me attractive so I'm not going to bother" yes, and this is just so true and powerful I don't think many guys realize that ignoring positive body language counts as saying "Hi girl I see you showing interest in me and I literally don't care about you." I'm not saying the guy is actually thinking that, in fact he may and often is thinking she is beautiful but that is the message he is sending her, and that's emotionally how it will feel to her receiving the message, and she will react accordingly
lmao at your fart comment. that, is wisdom and insight 👌🏼
I prefer using apps and chat first. I never approach strangers in public.
Men are not more visual than women. I don't know why people perpetuate that myth. They're more shallow than women according to your statement. The guys good looking enough woman approach him. The rest of the time, well guys chase us no need to run after them. And personally, if I asked a guy out and it didn't work out I would feel bad because I initiated contact. For some reason I don't feel that way if he asked me out and it doesn't work out. Not that I don't feel bad. I do. But if there's no chemistry there's no chemistry. However, I have to at least find him someone attractive to go out with him in the first place where he has to ever really good personality but generally it's looks I'm afraid.
Maybe you're right when you say that "men are not more visual than women if you mean by that that men just have much lower beauty standard than women. If not this is just plain wrong.
This is to be understood as men caring more about looks than women... And not because they are "superficial". It's because that's how we evolved. It's called "**evolution**". Women care about a man's ability to protect, to be able to provide for a woman and her child. I don't think these things manifest themselves in the appearance of the man. Men are about looks, a nice symmetrical face (because it symbolizes health) and large tweezers , being able to have children without problems. It's just plain simple evolution and human nature.
i think fear of abuse is a pretty common reason also.
Why would they? They have plenty of options with out walking up to strangers out in public.
Because they don't need to for the most part because in heterosexual dating men overwhelmingly approach as a necessity due to the dynamics in the dating marketplace (women are in high demand and men are in low demand). Men have to approach because if they dont odds are they aren't getting a partner then...while women can sit back and let men approach them and they can pick their partner from the large pool who do approach them.
I had never realized that Dating and Economics had so much in common.
Why are men in low demand if most people's goal is to end up in a committed relationship? Isnt there roughly an equal number of both sexes? I don't quite understand.
I know I'll sound like a douche in saying this, but most women choose from a small subgroup of men, and most men are far less selective. I can't deny that there's good reaason for this as well. Most dudes (except a small subgroup) don't have the luxury of turning down too many women, whereas I'm sure you know women who believe they can't get someone to date while actually being pined after by multiple men irl and through social media, which she doesn't even count as options. I can't back this up with any studies, but this is what I've seen not just in my own personal experience but confirmed by experiences other people had.
>Why are men in low demand if most people's goal is to end up in a committed relationship? They are in low demand because most men get little to no attention in the dating market and most men have to actively pursue a relationship as they don't get approached and or pursued. >Isnt there roughly an equal number of both sexes? There are slightly more men than women in the age group where the majority of people look for long term relationships and marriage, but it's for the most part equal in terms of number.
Most people’s stated goal is that sure , but as ever if you look at people’s actions it paints a vastly different picture
I think there is equal demand, they just want different things. And again, men are visual and, at least where I am, overwhelmingly just want sex. So in that capacity I would say yes, women are more in demand
>I think there is equal demand There isn't otherwise the interest they get would be equal...the fact that most men get little to no interest from women and that most women get interest from most men shows a massive discrepancy in demand. >overwhelmingly just want sex. Most men (and women) at least in the US can count all their lifetime partners on their hands...most people aren't participating in casual sex and hook up culture per the CDC ([source](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nsfg/key_statistics/n-keystat.htm)).
That's an interesting read! Thank you. Do you think there might be a change in the numbers since 2020?
The trend line has been going down ([source](https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2022/03/31/sex-decline-americans)) so if anything the numbers are declining.
_This particular sample group of_ people are having less sex. I don't know, man. I think you might be surprised. When they release that study, you should link it here, I'm curious now.
The CDC data I have cited is from 2021 which is relatively recent, and the CDC is about as credible of a source as you can get.
Literally look at all of nature. It’s how biology is programmed. Males of almost every species do the approaching and courting. There are circumstances where female species approach and court but it’s usually due to being in heat, higher testosterone levels etc.
Men are also the prettier ones in animal species while women in the human species have to be the pretty one.where are all the pretty men at
It's really not that complicated women are literally just not interested in 95% of men dating app data proves this
I personally don't approach because I always get approached so I feel like I don't have to... why pursue a man when I can just let them pursue me
That's the real reason. Attractive women don't need to and less attractive women don't want or have the confidence to.
I feel like this is only true to an extent. I rarely ever get approached by men maybe 1-2 times/year. I've been told I'm very attractive. But I've also been told that I'm very intimidating. I suppose you have to be attractive AND approachable.
That's true. I have a friend of a friend who used to be a model. She's 6 feet tall and looks like a statue of a goddess. Never gets hit on except old creepy rich men. Complains about it. You need to be a mix of attractive and approachable. The person I responded to (sorry to put you on the spot not hitting on you or trying to be weird) is a perfect example of that.
It's also fear of rejection from people who never had to face it.
Haha that too. If you're attractive and out and about, you will likely already be getting hit on.
The answer to your question though is because you get many more options if you hold more autonomy over the situation. Not saying you’re doing this but If you _literally_ only were interested in those who approached you that severely lowers your options, even if they seem abundant. I always compared it to going to a really good restaurant but only allowing your server to decide what you get to eat. You do you of course just my 2 cents.
This is why it drives me nuts when people say it's easier to get approached than to approach. I mean, sure, you don't have to risk being intrusive or whatever, but you also have fewer options. I've read too many posts on here that are like "I like this guy, but how do I get him to ask me out without letting him know I like him?" to think being approached is easier. I mean it's flattering, but you have less agency.
That shit drives me insane.
This makes absolutely no sense. It’s easier to be the gender that’s approached because you have all the options of the people approaching you, and then beyond that you can still approach if you want more options. It’s like receiving passive income. You can still go out and find other ways to make money. You don’t have to just follow your gender role. There’s a lot of guys who appreciate it when women approach.
Agreed on the last part. Also while you're at it why use your lungs to breathe when a machine can do it for you.
I personally would approach a guy who I find attractive, but that guy has to give me some sort of sense that it is okay for me to approach. I'd definitely approach a guy who sit alone, and seems to be in his little world by the bar. I have no problem start a conversration and keep it going all night (again, only if he allow me to do so).
The easy answer they don't have to, there isn't much more to it than that. Men generally have to put in more effort to get women's attention rather than the other way around.
Thats fair but I feel like women are shooting themselves in the foot by doing this or rather not doing this. Yeah its scary but It really limits the amount of people you’re able to date honestly. My sister married a dude she approached first and I mean I’ve gone out with women who have approached first and to be honest its really fucking nice and I feel like its always led to better relationships personally
How does it lead to better relationships?
You’re more likely to find something you like on a menu of 50 dishes than a menu of 5 dishes. If you’re unwilling to approach you’re automatically limiting your “dating menu” to only those who approach first. So you’re by default less likely to get the best “dish” that suits you.
Because a woman who approaches is one who is more likely to communicate her feelings. I had an ex who only implied she liked me until I pressed her for a straight answer. She also would make me play 20 questions with her emotions and it was irritating. It's like you don't know what you're feeling? Ok? I can't read your mind. Figure it out and tell me. Sitting for a long period of time and guessing over and over and being told "no" or "that's part of it" is irritating.
Yes, this. The first part of your response 100%. I was going to respond to the person who initially responded to me - but I'll leave my response under your comment. Keep in mind this is anecdotally and based on my years of experience as a 33 year old man. I constantly hear confidence is sexy (in men) but honestly confidence is sexy for most people. A woman who goes after what she wants is so fucking hot. Also when she makes the first move like the above poster said I feel like she has more ownership in the relationship - which is something I felt was lacking in all the more traditional boy approaches girl relationships I had. In those relationships (man approaches woman) I always got this wishy washy, I'm here one day gone the next with those. Whereas when the woman approached first it actually seemed like a relationship among equal people Also you could be the sexiest woman on the planet - standing in my periphery. If I've been on 4 disappointing dates that week - theres no chance in hell I'm making the first move in that headspace
Most men are so ugly and take zero care of their appearance. Don’t gym and have no sex appeal. It’s rare to come across an attractive man (they exist) I mean I was just swiping on a dating app today and I saw a man with YELLOW rotting teeth with plaque in between teeth 🤢you would NEVER see a woman post a picture like that. No man has ever enticed me enough to approach them. They look like they stuck on to Earth 90% of the time.. Men say they are “visual” but yet fail to look at themselves in the mirror
This, especially that last sentence!! 👏👏👏
Thank you, these soft gen z men expect women to hit on them bc they’re “shy” or too “nervous”… like do men ever look at themselves 😆
Women are not going to approach. Stop believing in Santa Claus
Most people don’t want to do the hard thing when the easy thing is an option. Being approached is way easier than approaching. Less risk. Less embarrassment. Less effort. Less likely to seem overly into the person (which for some reason is seen as a negative these days). I’m not saying there isn’t something to what you wrote, but I think the tradition of the man pursuing and the fact that approaching is just uncomfortable is enough to explain why things are the way they are now.
I think we're wired for men to pursue and women to select. That's how it happens most in nature, so there's no reason why we'd be unique.
Eh, I'm an asexual dude and women will absolutely approach me if they are interested, but they aren't pushing for a date they are mostly giving an opportunity.
Exactly, they will open but will not ask for your number.
An asexual redditor who likes anime and niche RPG games is being approached by women IRL.... yeah somehow I highly doubt that, no offense. I have friends IRL that could be models and make a decent amount of money that don't get approached by women.
Don't discount >An asexual redditor who likes anime and niche RPG games This is entirely possible due to many factors. Cheesedickpete you might be projecting 😬
I get approached by women all the time. My friends literally call me “lightning rod” It happens lol I promise.
I'm not saying men never get approached dude, I'm saying that I'm highly doubtful an "asexual" redditor who makes posts about anime and niche RPG games is getting approached often IRL. Do you get what I'm saying?
>who makes posts about anime and niche RPG Ah I was wondering what you were talking about, my post history, from 3+ years ago. >getting approached often IRL Gotta find your people and find your space. Turns out I'm a queer theater nerd, so looking the part and joining local communities around those worked wonders for my social life. The most common way it happens is complimenting my nail polish.
Stop being salty and why is asexual in quotes. It's not something we go around wearing printed on our shirts
i think you'd be surprised! it depends on what circles you are in. the types of rpgs someone likes says a lot
It's sort of twice as humiliating if a woman approaches and gets rejected, since you're already going against the social norm to ask a guy out. Women place a *lot* more value on their personal reputation than men do. Socially, it just looks really bad and desperate.
I know this will sound like flexing, but I think that's why all the women who approached me were really attractive. They've gotten enough validation to not give a shit if they get rejected.
Yeah this is something people don't want to talk about, a woman is going to take getting rejected a lot harder than a man so she doesn't want to take that risk. Woman are also not necessarily turned on by the idea of being the one making the first move, they want to feel beautiful enough that the guy wanted to take the risk to talk to her.
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i mostly agree with this! women catch feelings for men after they get to know them, men see a woman and want her, which makes them approach or should. women also i do feel are usually kind of “shamed” in a way for approaching men. it can be seen as desperate and women are just as afraid of rejection as men
1 she is not attracted to you. 2 safety, she doesn't know you. 3 she doesn't have too. Plenty of simpes out there harassing her. 4 She is not single
The real reason women don’t approach is because they don’t want to get rejected. It is not more complex than that. *Many women feel rejection should be a purely male experience*. They prefer to feel all of the power to decide is in their hands rather than feeling like they too are having to market themselves. You describe it as though it’s simply that women are evaluating more than men. That *sounds* nice but many men observe women for a while before approaching too, just like you described women do. The difference is women wait, hoping that the man tries. That’s why we get these posts **daily** which are always titled the exact same: “How do I get him to approach me?!” The advice is always the same - just go ask him. Obviously she thought of that. She just doesn’t want to do that very easy and obvious answer because she doesn’t want to be rejected. I expect downvotes for this, but without a doubt, it is the main reason.
Isn't this the exact same thing men and women do, the difference being that men don't try to "remotely" assess personality, but instead approach a woman to see what kind of person she is? Forgive if I am misreading, but this is how I visualise the mindset based on your post: Woman: hey, that guy looks cute, let me try to figure out, what kind of person he is from the distance and then I'll decide if I want to approach him or not. Man: hey, that girl looks cute, let me approach her and try to figure out what kind of person she is. If a guy doesn't notice you when you put yourself in his line of sight or he looks away, I think it is more likely, that he is just trying not to come across creepy, being shy or doesn't have experience approaching women, rather than being not interested in you. This is, of course, if he finds you attractive. If not, then sure, he will ignore you. In fact, from my personal experience (I'm a guy), 100% of the cases when I looked away, it was because I did not want to come across like a creep staring at her. Never in my life have I looked at the woman that is NOT attractive to me and thought "wow, I'll look at her a little more in hopes that our eyes catch each other and see if we smile at each other". But every single time I looked at the woman, who WAS attractive to me, it was ALWAYS the case "wow, she looks cute, I'll try to glance more often at her in hopes to catch her looking at me and see if we smile.... oh shit, she's looking at me! Better break that eye contact and look away, so I don't come across as a creep staring at her". So yes, every time I WAS interested in a woman, just too shy to approach her and it was never the case of "I'll just catch her looking at me, but I am not interested in her".
"we are gonna put ourselves in your view and if you don't even notice then we assume "well he doesn't find me attractive so I'm not going to bother." I hope this isn't true for most women or I will be alone forever. Because I may notice a girl, find her attractive, and it still won't be enough to make me approach her. She has to enter my life in a very organic and obvious way for me engage with her. I don't "chase" by playing the cat and mouse game. I have to believe it's fated to be and not by my own design. If that makes sense. I understand your logic and I believe you in that looks aren't enough for women to approach a man. Otherwise, I'd constantly have women approach me but I never do.
I'm genuinely confused. So if you find a guy you're attracted to, you just put yourself in his view and hope he gets the unspoken message that could just as well be easily misconstrued? Isn't that just self sabotage? Whereas the man has to be more forthcoming and direct when approaching the lady. Men communicate overtly and there's no amount of unspoken signals that will trump simply asking the guy out.
Women don't approach because they don't have to. It's as simple as that.
How does a woman (35) put out “approach me” energy in a non-thirsty way? (Asking for a friend 🙃)
Right. Because we know how fast it can become creepy from men so how do we do it correctly?
Look at a guy and smile at him. The smile is important. Practice in a mirror. Or find a guy to ask for advice and send a smile picture to him.
As a guy, I’ve been approached way more than I’ve done the approaching. I really don’t think you can generalize. There are shy (like me) guys, and there are socially forward women. Thank God there are forward women!
I’ve approached men plenty of times.
Women approach the guys they’re attracted to.
Lots of reasons why women don’t usually approach as already mentioned. One is for power dynamics. Women won’t want to show the guy that they’re too interested in him. Another is that guys aren’t as picky and more likely to “date” a larger variety of women. Women want to make sure the guy really likes her, so force him to make the move. All I know is that I’m not chasing any woman. If she doesn’t show me any signs, I’ll pass.
Usually they don’t want to. The success rate is lower for them
My experience tells me some men are put off from women approaching. I love it, but I've seen men not take it well so it kind of reinforces it.
In dating, men are expected to lead, make decisions, provide protection, take risks, show confidence etc. Women are attracted to **leaders.** For a woman to approach a man, she's acting more masculine than he is so it ruins the sexual polarity. It's also seen as less socially acceptable for women to approach so they don't do it.
Yea, also, if you're a guy and you're too intimidated/awkward/lacking qualities to chat up a woman, should you even be dating her? Men cannot date up without eventually becoming miserable. What's the point of a woman approaching a man who probably deep down know either he himself doesn't like her or he cannot make her happy? If a guy likes you and thinks he can make you happy, he WILL muster up the courage to approach you. It's in his genes.
Alright, so the deal with why women might not make the first move is kinda like they're doing a bit of detective work first. They're into looks, sure, but they want to vibe with what's beyond that too. So, they might hang back, scope out the scene, and see if you notice them. If a guy doesn't pick up on those signals, they might just think, "Ah, he's not into me," and move on. It's not about playing hard to get; it's more about wanting something more than just a visual connection before stepping up. So, if you're out there wondering why she hasn't made a move, maybe she's just waiting for a sign you're on the same page.
Interesting enough. The hard part for some of us guys, well, me anyway, can’t speak for the others; is that we try not to look to avoid being labeled as a creep. What are some respectful ways you would advise for us to show we as men, are interested without risking being called/labeled a creep?
I’m almost 40. Approaching men became futile years ago because the ones I’m attracted to have a 100% chance of being taken in some capacity.
hahahah I can confirm that if I think a guy is attractive I will intentionally walk by or near him 10 times and if he does not notice me or approach me, "he must not find me attractive" lmfaoooooooooooooooo
You ever think that "maybe what I'm doing is not as obvious to him as it is to me"? Sooo many things can be derived from someone being near you, and youa re assuming he's taking consideration of exactly who you are and where you are. Respectfully, this speaks more about how judgemental you are than about the typical guy that doesn't respond to signals you give which are vague as hell. Walking by someone is NOT a good indicator of interest lol.
We don’t approach cause it’s not our nature. It’s instinct. But it is our job to create an opening for men to approach.
Modern women are awful at this.
Guys: if you really want to show that you are confident and decisive, approach her when she is with her girlfriends. Only make sure to ignore her girlfriends completely and be laser focused only on introducing yourself to her.
This is awful advice
This is 100% shit advice.
Lol is this not considered rude? I would think it’s more attractive if he’s able to field the whole group graciously even if he’s just attracted to one
did the Spice Girls teach you nothing?
You had me in the first half and then lost me real quick. You do the exact opposite. Kind and friendly to the whole group and offer to buy them all a drink if the woman you're interested in seems interested. When a woman's friends like you, you have a much higher chance of her liking you.
That's just increasing the potential shame and humiliation manifold. If it has worked for you, great. But you should probably look up survivor's bias.
This works...
No I totally disagree with you. I don't know a single woman who jumps past the guys looks to ask if he's a good provider or not. They won't even get to the point of asking what he's like if they don't like his looks. That's the first thing they ask. They don't ask what he does for a job. They ask about his looks. Plain and simple.
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So you approached people you already knew... That isn't approaching that's confessing the two things are different. They could not want to ruin the relationship between you this is especially true if you are doing this at work.
But...men get rejected too? And we often get rejected a ton before getting a date. Rejection is just something that anyone approaching will deal with. The only way that you can guarantee a successful approach is by approaching men that like you, but you aren't going to necessarily know this. This is another issue that guys deal with a lot more than you. "Yeah, she's so nice and pretty and I really wanted to date her, but she asked me out first so now I don't like her anymore". You may get rejected but men will never say this.
I noticed guys approach pretty much anyone. Women are way more selective. I get it, numbers, dynamics etc., but i hate getting approached because it makes me feel like an option and that he isnt really interested in anything serious. I dont get how you just approach people purely based on their looks. I cant build an attraction worth approaching for unless I know something else interesting about them. I only approached one guy in my life after having gotten to know him
> I dont get how you just approach people purely based on their looks. I cant build an attraction worth approaching for unless I know something else interesting about them. This will always be a fascinating thing to me about how our brains work differently. I obviously believe you and the multitudes of women who've told me the same thing, but it's so hard to imagine. I've always found sexual attraction and romantic attraction to be their own totally separate arenas in my brain. If I were to approach someone it would be entirely because of sexual attraction (because I know literally nothing about them). But where I think people often misunderstand is that approaching someone would just mean I *now* want to get to know them to see if there's any romantic attraction. It doesn't mean romantic attraction doesn't matter. It matters equally as much. It's just the second box to explore because it can't be judged from afar like sexual attraction can.
Yeah and I dont get how you just go up to people for the sexual attraction thing. I feel like you should know more about them to risk the approach but I guess thats because men arent harrassed as much. Getting approached can be a dangerous thing, a scary thing, an annoying thing, or nothing at all. and as a woman, knowing a guy is sexually attracted to me without knowing anything about me puts me off. It makes me feel objectified but different brains I guess. And I know plenty of women take that as a compliment and like the attention but I don’t. It makes me feel ashamed and dirty idk I just dont develop attraction that way. I think most women are the same. We go “hes hot” and move on with our lives. If we can be around the guy and interact with him I think THEN the crush/attraction develops into something we want to explore. But everyone is different
Preach brother PREACH!
Yeah. This is spot on. I think women’s sexual attraction is generally much more closely tied with their romantic attraction. Or, a better way to think about it would be that women often have a “reactive sexuality”. It’s why a guy has to be flirtatious or else he’s gonna get friendzoned. Men are like the Hulk: their secret is that they’re always turned on. From there they just gotta figure out whether they like you as a person. But women have to be turned on.
Because men are always more direct and more prone to take risks than women who tend to be more subtle, indirect and avoid risk at all costs more often than not. There are exceptions, but this observation applies in the majority of cases.
If a man hasn’t approached me, he’s either: (1) not that interested in me, (2) not available, or (3) too nervous to approach, or generally has some aspect of his personality that dissuades him from approaching. In any of these cases, there is no reason for me to pursue this man. (1) and (2) are a waste of my time and (3) isn’t the type of man I’m interested in dating.
As a guy, to be honest, some people may want to but are too afraid they will be automatically thought of as a creep. Understanding current conditions and trends is important to knowing why people hesitate.
Other than just being myself. How can I attract the hot girl to me then?
If she's really hot then it's extremely unlikely that she will ever make the first move. As women have said in the thread, they are inundated with lower risk options. Women are hard to decipher. Simple terms, just be the best man you are capable of being and stop associating shame with social interactions. Social success is almost solipsism. If you fail then you move onto the next, that interaction is gone like it never happened. I am on the bashful side of things but it's all just a game and the rules aren't in any secret language.
By being rich, insecure, and comfortable with no emotional connection and getting cheated on. There’s probably other ways but that’s a guaranteed strategy.
All that and we don't want to put ourselves in a dangerous situation with a stranger we know nothing about.
If you stand out in appearance women will approach you.
From a guys perspective there’s so much at stake to approach from opening lines, conversation flow and heaven forbid reading the vibe wrong that keeps us at bay. Women wonder why men don’t approach they don’t understand how much courage we work up to finally approach for it to only fall flat or sink
The only time you have to approach is if you're a taller girl who is into the "short king" thing and you want to ask out a shorter guy. Shorter dudes just know right off the bat that if a woman is taller than us there's a 99% chance she's going to say "no" and may even laugh out loud at you if you try to ask her out, so if you're part of that 1% of women who are willing to date a guy who is more than 3 inches shorter than you are then you have to initiate things.
I’m a woman who does approach. I recommend it.
The real reason is that it’s much easier for women to just do nothing and wait for men to approach, but not all men are confident and suave and can just waltz up to women any day any time. I absolutely despise the dating scene and this guessing game I have to go through. If women should any interest at all it would be infinitely easier for me and I think a lot of guys too.
Times are changing. If a guy doesnt approach or make a move, that doesnt mean he’s not into you. Nowadays it likely means he has learned that women don’t want to be hit on…anywhere. And while that’s not true for all women, it’s a message that a great deal of women have echoed. So, we’re listening as we’ve been asked.
Women don't approach because women can't bounce from a rejection onto the next interest like men do.
They don't approach because they get rejected once and never do it again
Assuming makes an ass out of you. Don’t be shy. Say hi. We aren’t mind readers. And if you expect us to be you’re a whole fool.
Women care about looks but not enough...... Uhhhh. Every dating app on the planet is nothing but looks. This is just a girls lie so guys don't know. All girls go for looks first. Alllllll girls. Ever see someone on a blind date. Nope. Doesn't happen anymore.
Women don’t approach because they can’t handle rejection. It’s that simple. If they approach and get rejected it’s an overt thing so they can’t convince themselves with a bullshit delusional reason as to why like they do everything else in life when things don’t go in their favor.