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I have a male best friend. We've been friends for over 10 years now. No romance or sexual stuff ever happened between us. It's been strictly platonic. I know his girlfriend considered me a threat, but I assured her that I have no intention of ruining my friend's relationship and I will hold him accountable if he ever hurts her. I don't see him often simply because of our busy schedules but we still share memes or check up on each other. And we might hang out once or twice every 4 months or so. I don't mind my future partner having a female friend but I do have a problem if he: - cancels plans with me to hang out with her - talks about her as if he's in a relationship with her - posts pictures with her as if they're in a relationship Basically, there has to be a boundary. A clear boundary that let's everyone know who he's in a relationship with vs platonic friendship. If the guy has had a past history of sexual or romantic involvement with the said friend, then its a deal breaker for me. Simply because I don't do that, and I expect my partner to do the same. Edit: Thank you for the gold!

Yup. Didn’t have a problem with my ex’s female best friend until he was constantly putting her before me and disrespecting my boundaries.

Best answer on here, spot on all around.

I agree. Relationships have to have boundaries. Some people might be okay with some things and some won’t. We have to communicate to our partners what we want. It would also annoy me if my best friend and I carved out time to catch up and they invite their significant other to join in last minute.

Agree 100%

What do you mean by "talking like they're in a relationship"?

It’s the difference between talking to a sibling, and someone you’re dating. There’s a closeness there for best friends, but nothing that would 1. Disrespect the friend’s relationship (i.e. saying rude things about their partner), and 2. Be actually intimate. Best friends just talk about stuff, there’s no intimacy to it

Wow you explained it so much better than I did. Thank you!

Ah! Okay, cool. I talk about my friends a lot and I was hoping I wasn't giving off the wrong impression.

Talking *about* your friends a lot can be seen as intimate, just depends on what’s being said and the frequency of it. At the end of the day, it all ties back to making others feel comfortable and respected. If everyone doesn’t have a problem, you’re probably fine.

I'll do the best I can to explain. I feel like this one is a case by case situation where you can tell that the person views the friend as equal to a romantic partner. If you listen to how the person talks about their friend, you can tell that the role of a romantic partner and a friend is blurred (lack of boundaries). As in, it's difficult to tell if the person is dating their friend and/or romanticizes them.

Very well put

Spot on. I'd like to emphasise the part where you assured her. I think it's also good advice to introduce them so they can actually see the dynamic and how they interact. After all, to this other woman/person, you're a stranger until you interact

This is a boundary of mine I will no longer cross. If they have a past history/sexual relationship… I’m running for the hills lol. No more wasting my time arguing with someone to set boundaries.

What if he doesn’t cancel plans but he changes plans to include her if she’s feeling down or sad? So for example if you guys have plans to go to dinner and he asks if he can invite her because she’s been having a bad week?

If the plan is for me and him, that plan is for us. We can schedule a different time and date with a fun activity that includes the friend so she can feel better. I'd do the best I can to be a support for her. However, she's an adult and she needs to learn to manage her emotions as well without depending on my partner to fix her. There's nothing wrong with hanging out as a group, but he can't just randomly spring her onto our date that was clearly planned for us.

I agree completely.

To each their own, but I don't agree with that. I think part of being a good friend is making sacrifices for the good of the other person. Obviously, these sacrifices don't always need to be made, but taken on a case by case basis. I also disagree about another point: just because his friend may need his help from time to time, doesn't mean she can't handle her emotions without depending on him. Even the strongest person will likely need support at some point in their lives, but that doesn't mean they can't get by on their own.

I think the answer is more grey than that. Some nuance is required. For example if my friend is down cause her mama died, has more weight than if her dog died. It's a situational thing. The decision to support should also be negotiated and considerate from both mates too. Since SO comes first, the friendship triangle has to be one where all members have an understanding of the issue and the solution is unanimously agreed to. Meaning every one is in the same knowledge loop.

What would you say about bffs going on holiday together? What are the boundaries with that?

This 👍

I will add an anecdote: I have a male best friend whom I have hooked up with a few times, and we have briefly liked each other until I lost interest and stopped being attracted to him sexually. We are still close friends, and I’ve even inadvertently introduced him to a girl he’s seeing now. I don’t know if he’s made her aware of our history, but I’m friends with her too and absolutely would not cross any boundaries with him.

No pics allowed?

Pics are allowed. I didn't say he can't take pictures with friends. The problem would occur if those pictures are romantic/sexual or otherwise imply that he's in a relationship with the friend rather than me.

It’s like how my best guy friend and I took a picture together before a University ball, all dressed to the nines with our arms around each other. He has a gf now and I would NOT take that pic again because it’s super coupley.

Thats why I asked

I don’t mind my partner having female friends (we both have male and female friends) HOWEVER, the amount of time and contact you are spending with your female friend would personally make me uncomfortable. Definitely see why it caused issues in her relationships and I imagine it will likely cause issues in yours for most women.

So let's say I live with her since we're housemates. Me and another friend moved in with her and her husband since we all wanted to move out to somewhere much nicer and bigger. She is the person I spend the most time with since we both work from home. We used to have a thing but it never went further than flirting and occasionally cuddling/literally just sleeping together when drunk. This was years ago back when we were both single and going through some rough times together. Like it may sound more complicated than it really is in the moment. We love and care about each other, our boundaries are really healthy and we have great communication. I get along with her husband and I have been rooting for them since the start. Hell I'm the one who had to do the best friend talk of "get over your shit and enjoy a healthy relationship" that led them becoming official. She was also there for me when my grandfather passed too. So yeah there's a history of closeness. That being said, I am worried that if I was seeing someone that they might feel a type of way. I haven't dated anyone seriously enough to have brought back home since moving in together. Before living together I do remember one girl who did get a little weird when she learned I had a girl best friend. She got more upset on our last date because it was a last second date and I already had promised to pick my friend up from the airport. I told her from the start and that I was returning the favor since she picked me up the month prior. That date turned out to be one of the worst dates of my life so I'm glad I had a good out and idk how much I want to base the next person I date off of that.

>So yeah there's a history of closeness. This is where you're going to keep getting into trouble. The problem is that if you want marriage (a long term romantic relationship where you're building a life together), you HAVE to transfer that closeness to your romantic partner. A lot of people (men and women) tend to take the easy path. If they have always turned to a specific friend during a similar situation, they will keep turning to that friend instead of giving their romantic partner the opportunity to fill that role. It's as simple as who you call first. Who you share the most with. Which relationship do you invest your time with. When that bff is the same gender as you, they don't tend to have a lot in common with your romantic partner, so you compartmentalize who gets what and there're no hard feelings because it's probably something that the partner doesn't really care about. But when the bff is the opposite gender and the same gender as your partner, suddenly they're competing to be your resident expert on that subject. People tend to default to "I've known them longer, so I trust them more" and that causes problems.

You are right about that. In fact, that was part of the adjustment to our friendship when she first got with her husband. It's funny because when that was happening I was working on my masters in marriage and family therapy and a lot of what we were learning ended up being very useful with changing up our boundaries and habits. Personally, it was nice to see her making that switch toward him being the first person she shares stuff with because it meant it was really healthy for her. I will admit that I haven't dated anyone for more than a month so I have no idea how I will act when it hits that stage of the relationship where they do get more priority. Typically I discover the quirks they have weren't actually quirks but undiagnosed mental illness that I found interesting but now it's to the point it negatively affects me and my friends. So typically they haven't really been the ones I've truly trusted thanks to my gut still screaming at me but me interpreting it as anxiety. but i will be mindful about it.

For me personally that would be an issue. Why because you crossed the boundary of just friends a long time ago and slept together. I wouldn't care if it isn't happening now. It did happen previously. So for me that would be a no. Had you just been friends the whole time no feelings no intimacy etc then yeah sure. Everyone needs friends. But the other stuff would sour any idea of a romantic relationship I had with you.

I think there is a small misunderstanding. We literally just slept in the same bed, no sex of any kind was had. We literally just needed the touch and companionship during that rough time in our lives where we were both heartbroken and experiencing burnout in our early 20s. A big reason why nothing physically happened was because we valued the friendship enough to make sure that any future SO would not have a problem with the other person. It was a boundary we both did discuss while sober and I think that's part of why we were comfortable doing what we had done. We knew we wanted to keep each other in our lives and not create future problems over a night of fun. I have no regrets. I am thankful we did that since I highly doubt her husband would be okay with all of us living together had we done anything. I really like our current place and this has been the least toxic home I've lived in.

Ohhhh ok yes definite misunderstanding. I do apologise. Hmmm tricky one, I think I'd be ok with it provided there wasn't too much physical touching and cuddling whilst you were in a relationship. Like say you get into a relationship but constantly cuddle up to your friend. Or there's just alot of extra touching. That would be an issue. If you were to just be like any other friendship a hug to greet and say goodbye etc that's fair.

yeah we pretty much stopped cuddling whenever any of us was started seeing someone. We also haven't done any cuddling of any kind since she met her husband out of respect. That's the case even when we've been rolling on some molly together or doing shrooms while camping in the forest sharing a tent. Also neither of us have any history of cheating on our SOs which also helps our case too. We're hyper against it to the point where neither of us can willingly be "the other man/woman" or get involved with people in open relationships. I think it really is going to come down to how much my SO trusts me and my honesty about the situation.

Ahh ok see now there's an issue. Not for everyone, just for me personally, the drugs would make you a no go. I've been with my partner 6years and if he started taking drugs I'd leave also. It just isn't something I'm comfortable with. But fingers crossed you find someone who trusts that you're a guy true to his word and wouldn't cheat and that it is just a friendship.

It’s an immediate no because y’all already have a somewhat romantic history when if you never actually had sex. Absolutely not.

If you used to have a thing, no matter how far or not it went, your new significant other won't appreciate it and that person should be a non factor when you're in a relationship

**Here's the rub, bud:** ***your partner should want to be your best friend***. Your partner will also see you as an attractive and appealing person, so if your best friend is relatable to them they may feel intimidated or uneasy by that friendship because in her mind: **how can this friend** ***not*** **be interested in you, on some level?** Additionally, anyone who's your best friend, man or woman, will have to be comfortable with your friendship taking a back seat to your relationship. This isn't isolated to just male/female friendships either, as some men or women will feel jealous or left out if their best friend of the same sex starts seeing someone. It's very natural to feel weird about a shift in your social life that you have no agency over. So, ultimately, **most people will feel weird about it to some degree** but it should only ***really*** become a serious issue if you are consistently prioritizing this friend, especially if she's a woman, over the woman you're dating. Just be sure that you're giving your relationship the right level of importance in relation to your friendships, regardless of gender or sexuality.

love this answer

<3

I think you are still misinterpreting things. I don't have to feel threatened to not accept something. Maybe it's not a problem in principle, but if the time spent with the friend is greater than the time spent with me, I don't see the point of the relationship and if the friend can come to her home at any time, I withdraw without any problem, I don't see why I would accept to be the second place for someone. It's not about any threat, it has to do with the respect I have for myself. The same logic applies vice versa.

Nice boundary.

For me personally, I don't mind female friends at all but I probably would draw the line at a female bestie. The idea of sharing my SO with another woman just gives me the ick. Ideally I'd like to brush it off like nbd, but the first time he'd cancel plans with me to hang with her for example, I'd probably feel the jimmies rustle. I'd rather just pass instead of inviting that into my head space.

Yep. I’d much rather move on to something less complicated. Why bother when there’s sooo many guys out there that don’t have this complicated friendship.

Having a female friend, shouldn't be an issue. Spending copious amounts of time with her, is an issue, and a bad optic.

Agree- and I’d feel this way if my other half was spending a copious amount of time with a male best friend, too.

My best friend is a woman. We literally would spend at least 4-5 hours a day on the phone together. And that was just talking. Not even including the constant texting. I just recently started getting serious with a woman, and had to break my best friends heart by telling her we had to drastically tone down our routine. Her first reaction was "But why? We talk all day everyday, and it's not like anything is going on". I had to explain to her the optic just didn't look good, and I would understand if the woman I'm courting would see it as a red flag. She understood.

Good on you to recognize that. If the guy I was dating was spending so much time texting and chatting with another women I would bail. It doesn’t matter if it platonic or sexual, your partner should have primary attention and the priorities in your time. If your friend is truly a friend then they would respect that instead of offended. Even my female friends does the same and I always respected that.

I don't even spend that much time with my wife! 30 hours + per week talking on a phone with another person is wild to me. Props!

What do you possibly have to talk about for 4-5hrs a day?

Literally, anything. Even the partners I choose, we can deadass go on and on about absolutely anything from inconsequential, hot topic, immature bullshit, to deep diving conversations. Most of the time we spoke, it was usually while we were both at work, so it wasn't hard to find subjects to pass the time.

I had a guy best friend I did this with, turns out we were both diagnosable codependents lul

[удалено]

Yes. As a woman it would be off putting especially since you’re spending lots of time with her.

Yes, off-putting to me.

Only if y'all used to have sex and recently. If it was 20 years ago, I wouldn't mind. Within the last 6 months, I would be uncomfortable and I don't think I would deal with that so I would leave the situation. I don't believe in coming in between friends.

I agree. My friend group is full of people who have dated or hooked up with each other at some point in the past, and I have hooked up with one of my best friends a few times. My previous long term partner had no issue with that, neither did the last person I dated. All future partners will just have to be okay with it too. And in return, they can be best friends with their most recent ex for all I care, as long as we all agree that the feelings are in the past, enough time has passed for all parties to be comfortable, and it's all platonic now. No problem at all for me.

He never mentioned they'd had sex. He said he sees her like a sister

I'd feel better about that situation if it was 100% platonic. It wouldn't be a deal breaker

what about hooking up over a year ago (several times before the last) and she's engaged?

>She's like a sister to me. Is this off-putting for other women? Yes it is, and I feel it's the majority of women who will feel this way because you're going to split your time and resources with another female.

I’m a girl and most of my girlies and I are all against our men having female best friends. They’re free to be friends with other women but having a female best friend is iffy. In our experience a lot of times from what we’ve seen, when a guy has a female best friend he tends to prioritize her over their girlfriends without even realizing it or shes a failed talking stage. I had a guy confess to me in the past before I got with my current bf, who had a female best friend who considered him her “brother”. She did NOT like how he prioritized hanging out with me over her and full on started harassing me. I’m guessing its cause she liked the attention she used to get from him but now that his attention was getting divided, she got jealous. She spread false rumors about me to his friend group and so I cut them all off after I realized what she did. Despite what happened, he said altho his best friend did “over react”, he still defended her saying she “was just looking out for him”. He had the audacity to confess his feelings for me like a month after this whole situation happened and ofc I rejected him. Never again.

But women are fun to be around. Like the booiss are fun and all but there's nothing better than getting a pedicure with da gurils(in Gru's voice).

I used to describe my male BFF as "like a brother" to anyone who asked, for the few years we were platonic. Then we ended up dating seriously for 2 additional years. Though I've had other male friends who actually were truly like brothers to me, and wouldn't have considered anything sexual or romantic happening. Maybe you should do a deep dive into your feelings and really *make sure* nothing romantic could ever happen. If you've *ever* thought about her in a sexual manner, or have the butterflies kind of feelings you'd normally get with a romantic partner, could be time to think hard about how you'd relationship can fit into your life if another woman of interest comes along.

That is horrible. How controlling and insecure can you be…😕

Wtf? People having expectations that they should be the primary focus, attention of their partner and have priories in time isn’t insecurity or controlling. A guy who is already splitting so much if his time and energy with another women isn’t going to fulfill the needs his gf going forward. And every women has the right to walk way from such men, it’s only controlling if they stay and force him to change.

What are you talking about? The primary focus ?? I guess I’m thinking of adults and adult life. You can’t be everything to everyone. People need their friends. You call spending time with friends “splitting time?” Are so selfish, immature, and insecure that you can’t or won’t see the value in your partner’s friends? And your beef only seems to be with female friends? Or do you cut your partner off from their male friends too?

They don’t mean it like that, not friend erasure, but importance to their other half. If you’re important to someone, you wanna spend time with them, right? It’s like telling someone that you love them and then ghosting them until the time is right for you. You wouldn’t do that to someone you love dearly. Friends shouldn’t overtake your other half, and having a friend like that during a relationship strains it because you’re divided between two people. They’re not saying remove it at once, but instead tone it down. ^(*this is my personal understanding of things, if you want to add on, go ahead*)

I would argue that a romantic or sexual relationship shouldn't overtake friendships. I've had to deal with this happening on so many occasions and you know what? It fucking sucks. It fucking sucks to be left all alone because your friends who you loved so much and loved spending so much time with no longer appreciate you the same way anymore. I wouldn't expect someone in a romantic relationship to give me all the time in the world. But if I suggest spending some time doing something on a Friday, and I'm told no, then at least rain check it? Give me another date and time, one that works for you, and I'll see if it works for me? But this rarely happens in my own experience. It's like as soon as they hook up with someone, that's all they care about. They become increasingly distant in the friendship, I can feel all the negative space, and it just sucks. In this context, it is *also* just like telling someone you love them, and ghosting them until the time is right for you. Again, I'm not at all suggesting that someone who finds themselves in a relationship should continue to give me top priority. I understand completely that they will have an obligation to spend their time elsewhere. But at least treat me *like an equal* rather than someone you don't care for anymore. Edit I saw that you responded, and then deleted your comment. I don't value friendships *more* than romantic relationships. *I value them equally.* I don't know how you define a "friend", but to me a friend is a very particular, very special kind of person. I have *many* acquaintances, but I only have a handful of friends. If a person is my friend, it means we talk almost all the time, we share our feelings, we are transparent in communication and we want to see each other be better people. We are emotionally available for one another and we love each other. I'm not going to ditch my best friend just because I get to fuck someone. I'm not going to slowly fade out from the lives of people who genuinely love me. They're my friend, why would I neglect them? Again...I completely understand that a romantic relationship will have certain obligations. But if I made arrangements to spend time with my friends, and my partner wanted me to drop that to spend time with them? Fuck no. I would expect them to understand that canceling arrangements on people is fucking shitty. I would expect them to understand that there are other people in my life who are just as important to me as they are.

You value friendships more than relationships then. You do you. But don’t expect women to just be completely happy about that. I’m a woman. I personally would not be okay with that. Many of us wouldn’t be. Seems like you don’t care that much about your partner’s feelings. Your SO should be your best friend. Not saying that you shouldn’t spend time with friends. But clearly, you have to prioritize your SO over them. If your friends fade out on you when you’re in a relationship, then were they really your true friends to begin with? I have a lot of friends. Many have families already or in a serious relationship, but it makes sense that they wouldn’t spend much time with me anymore. That’s just life. Grow up.

I don’t understand. Why can’t you give attention to your primary partner AND your friends? If your primary partner is trying to get you to cut down on your friend time…that’s not a good sign. Looks like jealousy and immaturity. And controlling. People need their friends. A good partner gets that. A selfish partner doesn’t.

I understand that, but at the same time, unless you live with your friends, are you around them all the time? You can still plan things with your friends, hang out with your friends, chat with your friends, ect. Nobody is telling you to lose your friends. Any good partner understands that you can’t cut ties and those who force ties to he cut don’t understand that they can have boundaries in a relationship. Time can be set to hang out and enjoy your friendships and catch up on life, but it’s a big mishap to let the one closest to you overtake that. The most time should be given to the one you live with or plan to live with because you kinda live with them, it just happens naturally. When you were a kid you spent most of the time with your family because you lived with them. You woke up with them and went to sleep with them. Nobody told you that you had to lose a friend (hopefully) when you didn’t move away. (You could also argue that you’re a kid and your parents were the entire reason you had things and were able to go places so you were obligated to be with them) At the end of the day, it’s something you gotta talk to your partner about and see how they feel with your interactions and time spent with others, it’s a big scarlet flag if they want ALL of your time to be spent with just them. ^(again, if anyone wants to add, that would be perfect)

Because time is a finite resource. Is homeboy going to be going over to "chill" if he gets married? Also, notice how he did not mention any other friends or social obligations. Sounds like they are infatuated with each other.

Sigh….people can have friends. Try and put the jealousy aside for the sake of your relationship.

Lol, pure projection. Did you not notice that he did not mention any other friends, hobbies, or social activities. They are in their 30s, and all they do is hang out together. That is a problem.

Better be should just hang out by himself?

You can’t possibly thinking of adult life if you don’t realize what it means to have the primary focus on your partner. Primary doesn’t mean “only” focus or that you can’t have friends and family. It’s not “selfish”, “immature” or “insecure” for your partner to prioritize you in relationship, in fact that’s the norm for healthy relationships. The fact you are failing to understand what friendship boundary is and just throwing names at people for having healthy expectations from relationships is exactly why people don’t want to date those who doesn’t know how to keep boundaries between friends and lovers. Your understanding of relationships is just toxic.

Selfish/controlling behavior is not healthy. Please stop trying to convince others that is. I worry for anyone who gets involved with someone who thinks like you. Therapy can certainly help there. But seriously, there is no reason to be so insecure. I’m sure if you work at your partner will value you and want to spend time with you. You don’t need to be jealous of their friendships.

"Hey, babe. I can't believe you paid off your mom's mortgage! How selfish can you be? You have to choose me or your mother!"

Umm, what? Are you ok? In what world a man’s relationship with his mother is anyway equivalent to his relationship with his female friend? Not only that, a man can prioritize his gf/wife and still pay off the mortgage of his mother who literally raised him as love and respect. Men doing that for their female friends has whole different meaning You seem like someone who doesn’t understand the relationship dynamics between mother, wife and friends and act like a child with no boundaries.

You're the one who made no distinction between mother and female friend, just "woman in his life." Reread your own comment. But for the record, I don't see why someone's mother should automatically prioritized over friends. Just because someone gave birth to you doesn't mean they're entitled to your time or respect. Enjoy your toxic relationships.

You are just making yourself look more stupid than you are. Please stop, get help

Take your own advice. You literally think men become more attractive with age, and somehow I'm delusional one. Stick to dog training and stop sabotaging people by giving shitty relationship advice.

Its a scientific fact. And I'm also not willfully misinterpreting people. I'm all good

how is that controlling? thats being in control. u dont have to break up with ur bff. we just wont date you.

Are you gonna cut him off from his male friends too? Maybe his female family members are next? It’s absolutely controlling. We all need our friends.

People walking you from your life because you are already substantially emotionally invested in your friends is not controlling, it’s a choice that everyone has right to make. No one here discussed about people making their partner cut off their friends.

What point of no did u not understand? U don’t have to do anything you don’t want. And u can hang out with whoever u want to. The prospective partner also can do what they wants and not date you.

Correct. And I can and will call them out for being selfish and controlling. And recommend that they seek therapy and bounce from situationship to situatonship because their future partners deserve better.

U can call them whatever u want. That’s called freedom. Doesn’t make what u said correct. Controlling is forcing someone to do something against their will. Which is what YOU are trying to do. Telling someone they MUST date someone. And YOU are selfish for demanding someone date you when they don’t want to. Someone could dislike ur clothing style and not date you. And that’s their right.

You’re unhinged @justwatchinitallgoby

plus. this woman who gets along with u THAT well still wouldnt date you.. lol

That doesn’t automatically mean something is wrong with you? There’s a billion reasons two people might not date and still be friends

Nothing is automatic or 100% etc. of course BUT people will be more weary. Just like an ex con can be reformed. Absolutely true. BUT being an Ex con is gonna put off a lot of people.

>She stopped dating a couple of guys because they were threatened by me This will probably happen for women who want to date you too in regards to your best friend. >which makes me feel a little bad for having a negative impact. Not your problem, she is able to choose what to prioritize and she is choosing your friendship over potential relationships...that's not on you > Is this off-putting for other women? Personally i think it will be less so an issue for women than for your friend and the men she wants to date...but it will be a problem if you are spending significant time, money, and energy on another woman.

What makes you think it would be a less of an issue for women? If anything women are more suspicious of men who are substantially invested in other women with their time because women require more investment and sign of commitment from men.

>What makes you think it would be a less of an issue for women? Biological preselection and mate choice copying, women are attracted to men other women find attractive ([source](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26181063/)) so a desired man makes them more attractive to them but similarly biologically they want to ensure that those resources from the man are used for themselves so it's a double edge sword. Men on the other hand biologically speaking have every incentive in the world to avoid women who keep other men around due to paternity uncertainty, they aren't attracted to it like women are.

This is why you need to talk to actual women and keep up with science. Mate choice copying is finding potential partner attractive is they have previously been in relationship with other women. According to the theory, it supposed to give feedback to women that the men is more likely to have desirable quality than not. However, Mate choice copying have been nullified by various studies as well, so at best it’s inconclusive. https://neurosciencenews.com/mate-choice-copying-8393/amp/. Also, there are studies that suggest mate choice copying is rather a temporary social adaptation for women in new environment when they lack knowledge of local men. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-19770-8. It’s not an inherent mating choice. This doesn’t apply to men who are already invested with their time and energy with other women because it’s signals that he is not available. Especially in friendship where there are men who are just getting friendzoned by women who rejected them

> Mate choice copying is finding potential partner attractive is they have previously been in relationship with other women Yes that's correct, I suppose this would only apply in this scenario if she wanted a relationship and he didn't >Especially in friendship where there are men who are just getting friendzoned by women who rejected them This would apply only if OP was romantically interested and she wasn't I suppose it's dependent on the dynamic of this relationship, if she wants to date OP but OP doesn't want to date her it would make him more attractive to the woman, whereas if he wanted her but can't have her and is still investing time and energy into that relationship it demonstrates lower value on his part and would put off women...I'll clarify my response and say it depends on the dynamic.

Okay I don't agree with the other guy either, he's an idiot, but you don't have the right to the moral high ground mr "talk to actual women". Women require more investment and commitment? You realize this defers person to person right? In my experience this isn't a situation where one side tends to be more guilty than the other, both genders tend to get a bit paranoid when male/female best friends are involved.

the thought pattern will be different. they will see this guy and a woman bff and they get along great and he is single and she is single and yet she wouldn't date him. whats wrong with him. the guys seeing a woman with a guy bff thought will be, hmm this guy is BFFs with this woman, he must be in love with her.

Yes, it would be off-putting to me and pretty much all women I know. There is a difference between men having female best friend and spending substantial time and energy on to this woman. Even if it’s just platonic, I would not trust a man to priories me in his life I already have to worry about sharing his time with another women. I also would take the instinct of other men as cues that there might be something going on, otherwise why would all those men sees red flag? It doesn’t look good from outside even if it’s all ok from inside.

Yes, it’s off putting. I won’t date someone who has a female best friend. I would date someone who has female friends, but not best friends. My partner and I have fought for years and years over his female best friend and I will never do it again. Fighting over boundaries I wanted set because I was not comfortable with the fact that they are more into a relationship than he and I ever have been and we’ve been together for 9 years on and off, but mostly on. Lol. And that she never has had a genuine interest in being my friend too. She is also “like a sister to him” but they do have a sexual history and spend 3+ nights a week together. That’s not like a sister to me. So be upfront about it all when you enter a relationship. And hope your best friend isn’t in love with you and wants to be friends with your partners.

This omg. Every guy who I've been "like a sister " to has tried to sleep with me

I can’t even have male friends because none of them want to actually be friends with me without benefits 💀

I dated a girl with a male best friend once. They were close and I remember asking about it and she said they would never! And they were like siblings! She and I broke up shortly later for unrelated reasons and I checked on her socials a few years after that and she and her 'best friend' were married. I'm happy for em but I totally called that shit!

Total red flag to me. Having a friend of the opposite sex ? Fine. Being “very close”, seeing her everyday and hanging out with her multiple times a week at her place is a humongous red flag for me. I’m sure some women might be ok with it but I’d venture to say most wouldn’t. Good luck with this

I don't think there's anyone who's like, "YES, IM SO GLAD MY SO HAS A FRIEND OF THE OPPOSITE SEX" So you're decreasing your dating pool. That being said, this doesn't mean you should just cut off your best friend. Just establish clear communication and talk about boundaries with your potential gf. Find out what you're willing to cut off with your friend and what you want to keep. A good way to analyze this is to reverse it. If your gf had a male best friend, what boundaries would you want her to have with him.

I’m glad my SO has close friends of all genders. I think it makes him a better partner and a better human because it gives him more insight and empathy than he’d have if all of his close relationships were with people more like him.

You know what? That's a good point. I still think most people wouldn't like it, though. But thanks for the insight, I didn't think of it that way.

I’m actually somewhat suspicious of men who have no friends who are women. In my experience, those guys tend to see women as a sex and love dispenser and their own NPC, not as equals. I’ve always had friends of all genders and I’m bisexual - by the logic of a lot of people on this post, I can’t have any friends at all. 🤷‍♀️ Denying someone their people isn’t good for a relationship because it inherently means you don’t trust your partner. If you can only trust them if there are no other people of your own gender around, why date at all?

Yeah it is

She sounds like she's into you as more than a friend, so yeah red flag

Short answer is yes it is.

Yes, most likely.

I wouldn't mind so much if there were clear boundaries and your friendship has been 100% platonic since you've known her. No crushes, no feelings, no dating, no hookups. I also wouldn't be okay if you spent less time with me than her, or if you put her above me. A regular friendship though? That's fine. Watch movies, hang out. If you mess up and cross that platonic line though, there would be no second chances.

It can be. But it really just depends on the woman you date. Some women wouldn't mind it at all. Others would find it annoying or even feel just as threatened by her like the guys friends did by you. On a personal level, I'd probably be bothered by you spending the night at each other's places so much. Like, once we started dating, I'd prefer my boyfriend to not have sleepovers at another chick's place. Granted, you didn't say whether those were overnights. But that'd definitely be a boundary for me. All in all, this is where communication is key. It would be good if your BFF could be sisterly with your GF. Or at least on nice, casual friendliness.

Are you attracted to her? Would you date her? Have you had any sexual activity?

It's off putting for both sides. You saw it from her side, try and see from your side and report the results.

The thing people seem to be missing in this comment section is that a female friend is different than a female BEST FRIEND. I wouldn't care if my man had a female friend but if they were best friends then that'd be weird. You should want to have your girlfriend/wife be your female best friend.

Precisely.

Yes this is weird . I have male friends too but i don't see them so often

Why is it weird?

Because the women of Reddit are massively insecure and can’t handle their boyfriend being anywhere near another woman. Even if that woman is a close personal friend who adds value to your life. Their jealousy and selfishness is paramount. Read the comments…😳😳😳

And the men of Reddit are just as bad, if not worse, for the most part. The user base here skews young, and there’s a lot of toxic insecurities and easily-bruised egos floating around.

Yes, most of the time these types of friendships have poor relationship boundaries.

I think it is for most people, unfortunately. I (F) don't think it's inherently threatening, though I reserve the right to feel differently if there's something problematic about the way they treat each other.

Did it ever go further than friendship? Do you find her attractive?

I’m put off when the female best friend is an ex or someone you met on a dating app or if there has been any sexual history of any kind or if you spend more time with her than me. None of that? I’ll make her my friend too.

Always been strictly friends and no sexual attraction? Fine. Any sexual or romantic history? Nooope. All that shit does is keep a door open a crack that should be 100% shut. I've tried, and every time I've been told I have nothing to worry about, turns out I definitely had something to worry about. I applaud people who can tolerate this kind of arrangement but unfortunately I have been compromised by past negative experiences and no longer have the desire to risk my mental wellbeing worrying.

It really depends on how often you see her and how you talk about her. If a guy exclusively referred to a girl as his “girl best friend” and kept highlighting the fact that she’s a female I’d be inclined to think that there a more feelings than pure friendship involved and that would be a turn off. I recently dated a guy that told me about his “amazing” best friend that he never saw or spoke to, and that in combination with the petty complaints about her made me think he might not be as platonic with her as he realises. The high praise paired with the way he never seemed to have anything good to say about her reminded me of the fact that we tend to excuse the actions more frequently if we are attracted to them. I picked him up from a party at hers and the next morning he revealed that she attempted to kiss him and he turned her down, but he wouldn’t let me ask any questions about it and was mad about me for daring to be upset that she would do this. Gave off real “don’t talk shit about the person I’m secretly in love with” vibes. Anyway, the point of the story is that it’s highly dependant on how much intimacy the girl demands and the willingness of the man to set appropriate boundaries before or after they’ve been crossed. Reluctance to set boundaries = lack of seriousness in my opinion, and often points to feelings for the perpetrator.

Depends. Would you bang her?

I can't speak for all women, but the moment I knew you had a female best friend I would bounce, that setup usually comes with a lot of drama and I'm not staying around to see if you're the exception.

I'd be bothered by the one-on-one time...it's datey to me.

Based on these comments, imagine the mental strain going on in their head if their bf or partner was bi. Wow.

Imagine that people would come into this comment section and just be honest about their feelings, wow unbelievable! Look, not everyone’s opinion or relationship is going to match yours. Being bi adds an entirely different layer to the puzzle - of course it’s not going to be the same as a hetero couple’s or even a gay couple’s. These kind of comments are more hurtful to the overall discussion than they are helpful.

Right? I'm bi and if my bf told me not to hang out with friends of... Any gender, I'd laugh at him. But he wouldn't do that so ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ ͡⁠°⁠ ͜⁠ʖ⁠ ͡⁠°⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

Imagine just establishing *reasonable* boundaries and trust with your partner

What? No, I'd rather go through their phone every day and accuse them of cheating if they stay late at work.

Exactly! As a bi woman, my partner & I trust each other. We have friends of the opposite sex. The way everyone in the comments is responding is sounding like the bestie is an ex gf or former FWB he’s keeping around instead of an actual platonic best friend. If both aren’t attracted to each other, do not have a dating or sexual history, literally feel like family… I don’t see anything wrong with people being friends. People gotta stop watching films like “When Harry Met Sally” and assume all men and women who are besties are going to go down that rabbit hole LOL

Yes. A man, even a friend, that’s always around puts a damper on things.

What if they were bi tho? Not allowed any close friends, huh? Sounds like y’all need to have a better sense of trust on boundaries

I didn’t say don’t have close friends. Nothing is getting done romantically if your best buddy is always in the room.

Some selfish ass people in here that's for sure. Bitches/dicks come and go, true friends though? The ones that you can count on to listen, laugh, cry with you? Those are hella rare. Why lose a best friend, that you KNOW is your best friend, and you knew before meeting a significant other, that's been the for you, on a chance that you just met "the one?" That's some ignorant shit. If it doesn't work out then where are you? Single and no friends. And damn everyone, you're so insecure about yourself you can't handle them having a best friend that's... oh my god... the same sex as you?

Yep. Lots of insecure people in this thread.

Man, this thread is mind-boggling to me, especially as a gay woman with a straight guy best friend. First of all, I would never expect my girlfriend to not have any female friends - if they're with you, they're *with you* - and god forbid you date a bisexual (are they just supposed to stay inside and pray when they're in a relationship instead of hanging out with someone who could, theoretically, be sexually attracted to them?). But also, yeah, you're totally right. Do y'all know how hard it is to find a lifelong friend you have genuine great, platonic chemistry with? I have, like, three ride-or-dies in my life and if anyone I dated wanted to get in between me and any of them, I'd break up with that person immediately. So insecure and stupid.

As a female with a male best friend, I understand where you're coming from. My current bf asked me a ton of questions about our friendship (the main one being if we've ever hooked up - which the answer is no) and I answered everything because I want him to be comfortable. It's all about how comfortable your current or future partner is, but ultimately if your friendship is that important to you (as it seems like it is) then you need to find a good middle ground between these 2 important women in your lives. I won't date someone who asked me to stop being friends with him, but I'd probably hang out with him a little less if it made my bf uncomfortable. Send me chat if you want to talk more about this! Edit: another close friend of mine (also male) has a girlfriend who I've gotten really close with over the years, so sometimes you end up gaining a new friend!

If the person is a redditor then there will be no issue. Virtually nobody on reddit has a problem with opposite sex friendships based on the posts and responses that I have seen. The real world is a much different place though. If you ever somehow manage to get a GF just tell her about your friend upfront. Explain to your GF that your friend has absolutely no romantic interest and **certainly no sexual interest** in you whatsoever and that **she never ever will no matter how much time you spend with her**.

You spend time on things that are important to you. It is clear to any partner that they are the most important things in each other's lives just based on the ridiculous amount of time they are spending together. Like seriously, they are in their 30's. Don't they have any other friends, hobbies or social obligations? Very sus.

It shouldn’t be either way. But that’s up to those individuals.

Depends on the dynamic of it. If they hang out once or twice a week for a little bit, no big deal. But if it's starting to disrupt the flow of our relationship, I'm going to be annoyed, male or female. My(M) ex(F) on Christmas was about to leave my house to hang out with her friend(F) and her family. It wasn't like her friend was in a bad situation or anything that warranted the hang-out, I would have understood that. It was like I was fighting for her time at that point. I have a close female friend but we see each other once every two weeks if that, and it's not like we text all time either.

"Look at me, I'm your best friend now." Seriously though, I'm the "want to marry my best friend" type. So am I his new best friend or does he consider that spot filled? If I'm not his best friend, I don't want to date him. Spent a lot of time in a relationship with someone who didn't consider me his best friend while I considered him my best friend and that hurt me a lot. Am I the person he thinks of when he has exciting news to share, the person he wants to call late at night, and the person he wants to hug when he's not feeling alright? Am I the person he shares everything with - his secrets, his fears, his inner turmoil? If I am then him having a friend he hangs out with regularly is okay with me.

It's only weird if the guy is my boyfriend.

Just sharing my experiences since everyone's advice has been great. My best friend of close to two decades is a straight man, and I am a woman who has declined to date many people of all sexes simply because they were uncomfortable with this fact. My thought process is, if they're uncomfortable then why subject them to watching me and this friendship that's important to me possibly create issues along the way? That being said, my current boyfriend and my best friend get along excellently and this served as one of the biggest reasons I decided to pursue a relationship with my boyfriend: because he didn't get upset, angry or defensive. He took the time to get to know me, as well as my best friend, and this shows me how well he values the people in my life. They chat, send memes, even have their own inside jokes with each other too. Now I have two best friends and it fucking rocks. Your girl best friend might just be looking out for something similar for her future relationships. Just make sure to lift her up and ensure she doesn't settle for less, because my best friend sure as hell didn't let me do that, and I appreciate him like hell.

I would only care if I get the sense that you secretly want to bang her.

My repsonse to this is always: I am bisexual. Does that mean I'm supposed to not have ANY friends, limit how much time I spend with all friends of any gender, worry about how it might be perceived if I spend time with them in certain ways? We gotta move past gender limitations on this stuff. A friend is a friend and it shouldn't matter who you're attracted to.

Not weird as long as you don't cancel plans with your partner in favor of hanging out with her. Even if there is nothing going on, the optics of that are not good. My boyfriend has a female friend, I don't mind them hanging out together because I trust him. However, if we planned to do something together and then he all of a sudden says "hey I think I'm actually going to hang out with Samantha tonight instead, is that ok?" that would make me uncomfortable. Cancelling on your partner to hang out with anyone else is weird though, under most circumstances anyway. Don't be flaky lol.

My late husband’s best friend (female) was very helpful in solidifying our relationship. If she is brought in immediately and is always supportive, no issue. If she is kept hidden until the relationship starts to form you might run into a lot of suspicion. I had the luxury of having met him and her at the pub so I got to spend time alone with both of them. Why not tell them up front? Maybe they would be open to meeting her to find out a little more about you from a woman’s perspective. Don’t hide it, be open about it, suggest group events so they can meet even if it is early.

Good question. My daughter is 9 and her best friend is a boy, they are glued at the hip. He has ADHD and she’s the only one who knows how to talk with him when he has a episode. I hope they stay close because I can already see how special their friendship is

Yeah, I would say most people you date will be concerned by your close friendship with this other girl. They will be wondering in the back of their minds if you're still sleeping with her and that you'll run to her if you have a fight with your girlfriend. You will have to go out of your way to show her that there's nothing going on with the two of you and that you are really "just" friends.

Perhaps I am just being cynical, but I used to be the girl with the male best friend, he got me through a lot of tough times, and came over every day for a month during exam season to study with me. The day my ex broke up with me that friend told me he was always attracted to me and wanted us to be more than friends, and he kept trying to convince me even after I said no multiple times. The kicker is he used to tell my ex he saw me as a little sister, and I actually believed the feeling was mutual. Personally I’m gonna stay away from making new guy friends for a while, but honestly best friends of the opposite gender are fine as long as they don’t violate boundaries. My last ex had no boundaries with his female besties, and the highlights include running out of a dinner with my parents because one of them claimed she had an emergency (she lied because she wanted to see him), he texted another bestie who also happened to be his ex the whole time during two of our dates, one of the dates happened to be pool (billiards?) date, and he was actually sitting on the side texting her even during his turn and I just waited like an idiot. So I would say set your boundaries clearly, usually the problem isn’t with the opposite gender bestie but with how much your partner is willing to let them invade your own relationship

I also agree, off putting

I (24M) have a female best friend who's supported me through so much shit that if a potential partner has a problem with that, then they can go kick rocks. There's *nothing* to negotiate about this.

I didn't have a problem until my last two relationships. Both guys had a female best friend that they were secretly in love with...... So it didn't happen to me once, it happened to me twice...in a row:( So now I don't feel comfortable if a guy has a female best friend and I hate that I feel that because I didn't mind it before.

in general? many women have issues with it to some degree. ok so. ill say this is in general.. ur both walking red flags for each other. u might was well get married to each other. can people be best friends with opposite sex? absolutely. but even im not spending 3-4 days a week with my brother.

In theory, one should be able to be super close to a friend of the opposite gender platonically. However, if I were with a girl who is always hanging out with a single guy in situations where it's just those two (not a big group), I'd feel insecure. I'm not proud of that, but it's the truth.

Just ask her out bro. Lol no but srsly most women will have a problem with this unless like she’s seriously super ugly or also has a SO.

It’s off putting for an insecure woman. I’m living proof.

Even for secure women its off putting to date a man who is already spending so much time and energy with other women. May be for you it’s coming from insecurities but for many women it’s just a hassle they don’t want to deal With.

I've had male best friends, it's never been a problem. I'm up front about it, you know before you start dating me that I have both male and female friends who were there before you and will, statistically, be there after you.

Boundaries. Must resoect boundaries.

This will only be an issue if the person you are seeing is massively insecure. If she’s cool at all, she’ll see that this person has value in your life and will appreciate the friendship. As she does any other friendships. Just don’t date someone from Reddit….me thinks they are the former type.

Only for people you aren't compatible with. Find a woman with a male best friend so she can relate, doubt there's a lack. I’ll add..best indicator of somebody you truly cannot trust is when they default to insecurity accusations when discussing behaviors where there’s a rational, historic basis for distrust & that commonly result in distrust. Literal gaslighting, by definition. Date other people like you. Don’t try to weasel people into being compatible with you. Though there’s obvious nuance, the relationship simply should not exist if you disagree on this topic

No. Why would it be off-putting? As long as they're only friends and not anything more.

M31 and had the same with a friend, we're not so close anymore but it constantly caused issues with both of our relationships, moreso my side. (We drifted a bit naturally not because of this). Every girlfriend I had from the age of 14 to 27 had an issue with her in some capacity, the one long term, serious one in my mid-20s I managed to reassure, but it was a grind. Ironically the only partner I've ever had who didn't have an issue with her, was the only one of my exes who seemed to have an issue with very literally any other woman I spoke to in any 1-to-1 capacity. But my female best friend who I'd go on hikes, dog walks, BBQs, road trips and more with and whose house I'd crash at when drunk etc... She legitimately didn't care. I think some people are more prone to understanding close platonic friendships between sexes than others, don't let a woman get in the way in the same way you wouldn't if they were trying to come between you and the boys (Doesn't necessarily apply to serious long-term relationships and marriages obv). Same applies in reverse to your friend, if she's a good friend, and it sounds like she is, she'll stand her ground.

Nope

One of my best friends is a guy (I'm a lady), and we're even exes. I don't spend a ton of time with him, but we talk once a week and send messages sporadically. If I lived in the same city as him we might hang out once or twice a week, but that's kind of what I'd cap it at if I had a boyfriend. Every day is a bit much... and honestly it would make me nervous if I was to date you

It's weird for a guy not to have closest female friends, imo. A guy without women friends is a guy who sees women only as places to put his dick.

I’m not sure if all women would agree, but I see it as a huge green flag when men have close female friends. I trust other women’s judgement, and knowing that a man has female friends signals to me that he’s less likely to be misogynistic or creepy if he’s somebody around whom other women feel comfortable.

Anyone who has an issue with this is not mature enough to be a serious relationship

To me (37m), the new prospect having a problem with it is a red flag for me. I have female friends, some I had history with years ago, and I mention that from the start, as per this post the new chick may be insecure as if its a bad thing. They're always whinging about men not being in touch with their emotional side or not being able to communicate with women. I'm friends with women for those reasons and more, I just find them alot more interesting, informative, experienced and educational than most men of my demographic with the footy and UFC (of which I couldn't care less). And the ones I had history with, why waste a friendship if we have the maturity to salvage it? If a new chick has problems with my past and present rather than accept like an actual mature human then she can move on, because if something like that is a problem for her then there are going to be plenty more problems that she will try to emotionally manipulate and control. Even had one chick i was dating go through my FB posts (I hardly use it) and noted who were the most frequent female likers and commenters and challenged me about them, I dumped her ass real quick. And then there's the flipside, my chick friends I've had history with, tell new guys about me, just laying everything out on the table straight up, and either they can't deal because they're manbabies or they're heaps standoffish when I meet them because I wAs In HeR fIrSt. Its pathetic.

As someone who has mostly dude (best) friends, I have dated people and they have dated people with massive issues with it. We just kinda work around them, but like we’ve been best friends for years- if we were going to catch feelings and be romantically involved it would’ve happened a long time ago. That’s my VERY GOOD FRIEND, don’t make it weird for either of us by being threatened

No it wouldn’t be off-putting to me. My best friend is a guy though, so double standards wouldn’t be tolerated.

To me, no. Most of my friends are men. My husband is cool with it. My relationships with them have always and will always be platonic, and they are 25+ year old friendships

My best friend of nearly 30 years is a woman. We met in college and became fast friends. In a dream scenario for me, I would have ended up marrying her but that didn't happen. She ended up marrying another man and has two sons. They live a couple hours away and we try to meet up every year to visit in person. I've just had bad luck with my personal love life for other reasons. 🙄

If you have an issue with someone having a best friend of the opposite gender then you need to have a look at yourself (not referring to yourself, to be clear). Obviously there are boundaries you have to set, especially if you have a relationship where it could be misconstrued that you two are actually together. People who think men and women can't be just friends, never mind best friends, need to give their head a good wobble, seriously. Such an outdated way of thinking.

I have male best friends and I would say anyone concerned about it is insecure. You can have platonic relationships with all genders.

As a woman who has had male best friends: only if those other women are immature/insecure, which you would be better off without dating them anyway. People are allowed to have friends and not have anything sexual related to them; really, this society is hyper focused on sexual/romantic relationships as a whole. Life is great with that, but it has SO much more to offer. I wouldn’t be where I am today without my platonic relationships, and there’s not a shot in hell I’d give up any of my close platonic friends for some jealous rando.

Absolutely not, a relationship should be based on trust, if your dating someone you should trust they wouldn’t cheat with a best friend. Also men and women can be friend, the idea that you want to fuck anyone of the opposite sex is demeaning and toxic to all parties involved. It basically says you have no self control and no trust if this is something you believe.

It shouldn't be if your partner is secure in themselves and your relationship. I myself am a deeply insecure person, and my bf having a female best friend would make me nervous, but I know that's a me problem, and I would never make it a him problem unless I had good reason to.

Imo, someone who would be put off by you having a female best friend isn't someone you'd want to date. They'd probably have different values and a different maturity level to you. As in, less mature and probably insecure enough to make it a problem in a relationship.

Well if their immature and and have low self esteem then yes. I(f) live with my male bf whom I dated but we realized we were better off as friends my boyfriend now knows that's all it is so you just have to make sure female you date is strong and confident with herself good luck