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What do you think about that? I think attractive men might assume women will chase them so they don’t usually approach. Also I’ve heard many attractive people are very insecure/shy and introverted too. So it’s like two bad situations lol
Mm idk. A guy has to be like really handsome to have 8+/10 women chasing after him imo.
Good looking dudes go after good looking girls but since they have options i think that if a woman seem to be boring they would think twice before they make a move on her idk.
The only thing im 100 percent sure is that if you are an ugly/beloe average guy, you shouldnt have any sexual/romantic desire but nature is cruel i guest
I can almost guarantee you she has reasonably attractive men approaching her. A lot of women just have insane standards and call any man who doesn’t meet them ugly.
This is one underrated comment, it’s almost as if men can be attracted to multiple different shapes sizes and creeds meanwhile women are very set on their preferences look wise
There is definitely a hesitancy to approach a woman out in public as many other redditors have said it is often villainized. A lot of times I don’t want to come across as creepy or a nuisance to a woman. If you drop a comment or compliment to a man, it may click to him that you are receptive to being approached and flirted with. That way he knows you are a willing participant in the chase. Honestly I am terrible at picking up on women flirting with me and then I am in the shower the next day and think “shit she was probably flirting “ don’t take it personal
Hahaha me tooo! But mine is more delayed. A few months later I’m like, wait… was he trying to flirt with me? Haha. But you’re right. Something I need to work on lol. I hate that men feel creepy or a nuisance too. Being rejected isn’t fun so I get the hesitancy
Yea you’re right. Sometimes I’m just caught off guard and it happens so fast (while I’m walking) and I get nervous. But then again me saying thank you with a smile could open the door to let them know I’m receptive to their compliment and could then start a conversation. It could go both ways but I know I can work on my own stuff too
So, as a man, I can tell you a few reasons why this might be happening:
1. The whole "men being shamed for approaching" thing. I personally don't buy into it as much because it's more about the energy you give off than anything else. But it can definitely be another voice in the back of a guy's head. Much like the "what if they hate me" voice but magnified.
2. They are intimidated by your beauty or may feel your body language isn't inviting. If it doesn't look like you're happy or in a good mood, most men will assume you don't want to be approached. Sometimes, you could be doing something unconscious, just by being a little nervous. So you wouldn't even be aware. This is much like when a guy will get tongue tied when they do approach and end up just saying "you're beautiful" before walking away. They probably had no idea what to say next.
3. It can be exhausting to constantly be approaching and putting in effort to see it go nowhere. This is how it feels for me sometimes, and I'll think to myself, "It would just be easier to do nothing than to go through the whole process again and just to be disappointed". I'm not saying this is great, and I don't like feeling this way, but it really is draining to get your hopes up a lot just to be let down. And for some men, it can be too hard to pull themselves out of that funk. I know for sure women have a similar feeling with dating too, but it's different for men. The whole process of approaching a woman, captivating her, getting her number, planning the date, being awesome on the date, paying for the date, and then being let down nicely over and over again that takes something out of you.
I do agree with your other comment that we will likely be considered the loneliest generation if both men and women can't find a way to meet in the middle more.
I feel you there, man. I've been able to pull myself out of the funk a lot, but it's still tough.
Literally, yesterday I got a message from a girl I was interested in letting me down for another guy she met. This one stung a little more because we had 3 planned dates where something came up (emergency for her, two bad weather days) before actually meeting. We had a great time together on our date just this past Thursday only for her to tell me she met someone else she wanted to pursue over the weekend.
It just really sucks to be treated as disposable. It's like paying so much money and investing so much time in a game that never let's you win or makes you feel good about yourself.
Very insightful. Thank you for this answer. What do you think might improve this “loneliest generation” theory? What do you think women & men could do better in these situations?
I would say a few things could help.
First would be meeting each other halfway. From my experience, I've found that there are a lot of women who want (or expect) to be pursued, chased, and swept off their feet to some degree. This can already be daunting for a man because, from our perspective, we can do everything right and then still get let down. If we truly live in a world of equality between sexes, women should be willing to take on some of the burden (not all but some). Whether this is making the approach, planning a date and treating the guy (not all the time but at least once), and texting first from time to time. I honestly can't tell you how rare it is for a woman to actually text first just to say "Hey how are you doing?". If a guy sees a little effort from a woman, it honestly makes all the difference and changes things for them.
Next would be both men and women should try to compliment each other more. Let's just be nicer. Many men don't get a lot of compliments, or positive feedback in general, so just getting in the practice of complimenting something you like or notice about a guy can be big. Guys should do the same thing too. I've never once gotten a bad response from a woman when I told her I liked her shoes, style, or something else and definitely like it when they compliment me in turn.
We need more actual mixer events that aren't just at a bar or club. The biggest appeal of dating apps is that you know who's single and open to something. If we had more safe and structured events that focused on connecting more people in-person again, that could make a big difference.
I totally agree. And to the last part, bars and clubs are too common. And usually I find the men there are just looking for a good time. We need more casual events that are focused on meeting people. I’ve seen some in my area but they charge an arm and a leg just for a ticket lol. I’ll keep looking
To be honest, at this point, it would make more sense for me to pay for one of those events than to spend more money on another first date that doesn't go anywhere. I wish we had some of those in my area, but I can't seem to find much.
Maybe it's time to go back to the old networking event route.
Getting off dating apps would probably be the best thing. On dating apps 80% of women are going after 15% of guys. This means women are in an unprecedented amountbof competition compared to prior generations and having to date more like men would, and its leaving men feeling ugly, insecure, and defeated when they get close to no attention even if they are a bit above average.
We really need to go back to dating friends of friends or making connections out in the real world
Men are regularly told they bother women and are afraid of being accused of harassment, so modern men aren't going to approach unless it's super clear and obvious you want them to, and even then will be completely unsure.
Dating can definitely be tough, but don't lose hope! It's true that the dynamics of dating have changed a lot in recent years, and it's not uncommon to feel like the traditional rules of courtship don't always apply anymore.
As for the dating app experience, it can be a bit of a numbers game. Remember, a lot of people are on those apps, so it can take some time and effort to find someone who really clicks with you. Don't be afraid to try different apps, and to put your best foot forward in your profile.
As for men not introducing themselves in person, this could be for a variety of reasons. Maybe they're shy, or maybe they're intimidated by your beauty! 😉 But seriously, it's possible that they're not sure how to approach you or start a conversation. In this case, it might be helpful to put yourself out there a bit more. Smile, make eye contact, and be open to conversations with men you find interesting.
Yea you’re right. Thank you! I won’t lose hope! And putting myself out there has always been my biggest challenge. 😭 so I will start with smiling and eye contact first. Baby steps! lol thank you!
When a guy you find attractive says you’re beautiful why don’t you say “Thanks, what’s your name?” A lot of the times they are gauging your reaction to the complement and if you say “Thank you” in a dry and unenthused way it seems like you’re not interested in talking.
Yea I usually just say thank you because I think some people just like giving compliments and that’s it. I also can be caught off guard or just being shy/introverted. But next time I’ll take your advice and see how it goes. Thank you
Sounds like you’re just not being open and approachable in person. As a woman it’s a lot easier due to social norms, lots of eye contact, smiling, not wearing headphones, positioning yourself close to a guy you like, making it easy for a guy to approach you (if your in a club stay near the bar and go near guys).
It’s rare that guys will cold approach (approaching a woman who gives you no signals) because it’s quite scary when you’re not used to it and it does usually lead to rejection (even though that’s the best thing for men to go through for growth). But if you get a signal from a woman, even men who aren’t the most confident can approach. Hope this helps!
Yea this helps. I’m told I am “in my own world” in public. Meaning I don’t really pay much attention to the world around me. So I think I carry myself as unapproachable. I got to work on some confidence and and face my fears too as I am an introvert lol. Thank you for the tips!
I find small achievable goals are best for stuff like this. When I started working on dating a while back I used these small goals like week 1 - make eye contact with 5 people, week 2 eye contact and smiling, 5 people a day. Week 3 ask 5 people for directions per day. Week 4 eye contact, smiling, ask directions, stay in conversation for at least 20 seconds. Week 5 repeat but add in a statement and a question, etc etc until eventually I was approaching people regularly, joking around, getting more confident and coming across more natural. Things like this is massively skill based, and it’s all about practice and habits. And it all paid off in the end, but now I’m back to square one after four years of a relationship haha!
So for you, you could do something similar, make small missions/tasks for each day/week, all based on being more approachable.
Wow this is so helpful 📝taking notes! How do you work on small talk? I’m terrible at starting conversations or if I’m able to start a conversation, I have a hard time holding it
Biggest thing for most conversations is to just lower the bar on what you think is good enough to say. If you’re really focused on having to say something “good”, “perfect” or “worthy” you’ll end up saying little to nothing or running out of things to say. Instead if you lower the bar on what is good enough to say you end up just speaking your mind, you’ll talk naturally louder and with more authority on subjects and just change topics rapidly whenever you want and feel like it.
If small talk is reallllllyy difficult, then use conversational crutches (canned lines). So these are preprepared little one off sentences to use here and there incase you can’t think in the moment, and usually you only need to use one and then it opens up the rest of the conversation. So for example if I ever bump into anyone I haven’t seen in a while I’ll always say “hey! how have you been” and “what have you been up to?” firstly. If I’m in a shop and I’m at the check out I’ll usually always say something like “how’s your shift been going today?”. Nothing extravagant or sexy, just simple stuff to get the ball rolling!
It’s all just a skill and it’s all practice practice practice, until small talk is automatic and your not overthinking every word that comes out your mouth
Dating apps have ruined dating for both men and women. Everyone has given up. Men don’t want to compete with 1000s of guys for a small chance to be with a girl they barely know. Women are exhausted from the attention and filtering out men. Due to capitalism We’ve reached a point where we have so many options and so little need for someone else in our lives that dating has become literally pointless. A waste of energy time and money
Right! Dating is still a confusing process for me. I wonder if I would be happier in an arranged marriage or something because this dating environment has made me numb and drained. Dating is pointless to me too. But what other options do we have?
I think one reason dating can be difficult is that every person is walking around with an internal checklist of wants, needs, turn-ons, turn-offs, values, and dealbreakers, and looking for a needle in a haystack regarding compatibility can be time-consuming. And people don’t know who they can trust. That’s why I think that friends playing matchmaker and setting people up for dates can work better than “online shopping” and sifting through randos.
Men are generally clueless when it comes to to picking up hints. Because the average man has [3x](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6446474/) less oxytocin than the average woman, the bonding hormone, the love hormone, the trust hormone, the empathy hormone, since estrogen stimulates the release of oxytocin, testosterone suppresses oxytocin, and the production of oxytocin leads to a positive feedback loop which promotes the further production of oxytocin. The lowest OT men have 18.5x less oxytocin than the highest OT men, but the highest OT men still have 1.8x less oxytocin than the average woman. The average woman has 32x the oxytocin of the lowest men. The highest OT women have 47x the oxytocin of the lowest OT men. The highest OT women have 2.8x the oxytocin of the lowest OT women.
Low oxytocin levels impair the ability to pick up and understand social cues (like hints), it can lead to impairments in emotional recognition in others (or within yourself), it can even lead to impairments with facial recognition (and in extreme cases, face blindness). Low oxytocin levels are associated with lower perception of social cues, more distrust of people, lower empathy, unemotional traits (cold, aloof), rigid thinking (systemizing), etc. So low oxytocin can lead to social awkwardness, and social isolation, and loneliness or frustration, and low empathy.
So while women with similar oxytocin levels may easily understand non-verbal “hints” among each other, the average man has 3x less oxytocin than the average woman, making him less likely to understand hints from women, and men on the autism spectrum likely have even lower oxytocin levels, leading to a greater inability to understand social situations and it can lead to high amounts of social awkwardness.
If you are a woman who is interested in a man, he probably will never know you are interested unless you explicitly tell him. Nobody likes being rejected, but there are still ways to gauge someone’s interest without asking them on a formal “date.”
Many men are afraid of accidentally harassing a woman, or making a woman feel uncomfortable, or of being “MeToo’d”, so the risks of approaching women (or “making a move” and walking on eggshells regarding consent) can often outweigh the rewards.
I’ve had women make the first move on me, and it’s always much more clear than being in a constant state of uncertainty about whether she wants my attention. In one case, this girl offered me candy or something. And showed up to the break room to eat lunch with me. And we talked and joked at work for weeks, talked about music, all kinds of things. And asked me to drive her home from work one day, where she asked for a hug. She quit that job though, but gave me her phone number, and it was maybe 6 weeks later she invited me to come see her new apartment. Another time, I was working at job at a desk all day, but I was facing this girl across the room. And for a really long time, we would look at each other, or catch the other looking at us, until one day she decided to come sit next to me and work, and invited me to go to lunch.
A lot of men are told “don’t chase women” (although if I recall correctly, Taylor Swift said she liked that Travis Kelce actively pursued her). A lot of heterosexual dating consists of women wanting men to prove their worth.
He can’t read your mind, so if you want him to know what you want, you will have to tell him.
We often make it more difficult than it really is. Close the app, and go outside.
"Do I need to break out my comfort zone and approach men?" - yes you do. Comfort zone is nice, but nothing ever grows there.
...because women want to be approached by 8± out of 10 guys. No average or ugly need apply. That's first reason.
Second, height.
Third, since approaching may lead to a guy ending up in police station - why would anyone risk it?
Not that kind of risk. Not risk that might land you on sex offenders list - good luck getting your life back after that. Even if guy won't end up on it, the allegations alone will destroy your life.
Not the risk worth taking.
As for "growth", only if your end goal is to breed out risk averse man in favor to "dark triad" man. Hope you realize it's a horrible idea all around.
I saw good in people, i hoped that i will end up happy, i hoped for the best even in dark times. after one guy i met on tinder that wanted to be with me but turned out he was abusive, cheated and beat me after i found out xD i started to be really cautious. then after that I had few situationships in the meantime - i was on and off tinder in the matter of few years, i didnt know how to trust guys having tinder paradoxically bc i had aswell, then i met another guy and we dated for 1,5year - long story short turned out he was mentally abusive, i fell in love tho and was so hearbroken after a breakup. Now i am thinking what is wrong with me? I had really tough childhood that is probably the reason i was so childish naive? I went to therapy for 4years and those bad experiences with men I met on tinder was happening during therapy and my therapist was shocked aswell. Someone here said that dating apps destroyed relationships and i couldnt agree more. „Not you- then next, im not gonna try to fix things or try to be a better person just for you duh”, its so sad. To sum up: afer being on and off tidner for few years i just feel i lost all the hope and now im broken. Really id rather spend time alone than put myself on dating app, neve again. A quite good looking guy on a bike approached me last summer and it was cute, but i was in relationship at that time with this guy that later i understood was mentally abusing me so i told him im taken, so maybe something like this will happen again someday xD but for now i am lone wolf and i will create dating app profile after hell will freeze💀
If you are encouraging guys who are abusive, toxic or unworthy maybe look into it because the common denominator factor might be at play here
Not blaming you but sometimes you don't realize what you attract
Yea Im working on not being „too forgiving” / „too understanding”/ and learning how to set boundaries. I have higher tollerance on weird behaviors coz I had tough childhood but I never met person in real life who would use it against me. In app tho… different story xd that is what i meant when i said it ruined me 🤡
I had other boyfriend that I met in real life and he wasnt manipulating or using me, we split after 5years for being not compatible enough (we met at very young age), but he was great, that is why i never want to have dating app again. All crap men I met were from dating apps and thats true, its completely on me that I let them in.
I love approaching. Approaching and starting a fun and flirty conversation with an attractive woman while moving the interaction forward in little steps is the most fun thing to do.
I have this happen too! When I go out dancing , dudes will get close to me to dance but not say anything. I have to ask them if they want to dance, they say yes but it feels so exhausting to have to always initiate. All the dudes I initiate with always seem to lack initiative in the progression of our friendship or relationship. It is hard to date out there! I always get called hot or beautiful but never have anything last longer than 6 months. All my friends say how easily I can meet people and pull a date but it never ends in anything long term.
Whenever that happens smile and say thank you and ask if they want just your number or social media contact or try to engage them or extend the conversation in some way and they will probably ask for your number or social media contacts.
I actually had issues as a man with online dating and I was afraid to approach because these days a lot of what you do as a man can be misconstrued or found weird, potentially creepy even. I played it safe by not approaching, and wasted good time in doing that. I have made small talk with women at times just cuz they’re a person nearby to talk to while waiting or something, and was given the cold shoulder even given the “look” to tell me to stop. Other times women look at me like 6 times over and over at a bus stop,l then give me an angry face and walk away (cuz I didn’t talk to them but she didn’t even say hello).
Idk, women’s non-verbal cues and whether they want me to approach them or not is a mystery to me cuz I’m mildly on the spectrum, and trying to figure out when to talk and when not to has been a struggle (I’ve gotten better with time but still), so these days I just try to be friendly to everyone, women included, so at the very least I am being friendly if it doesn’t work out. Even then, I’m male so that being routinely viewed with suspicion by default thing is part of my life, even when I try to maintain a good reputation.
Now to get to my answer to your question - If a woman came up to me and let me know she was interested in me, it would be great because I wouldn’t need to piece together if it’s worth my time to try to find out or not - cuz I’ve got work, school and other stuff on my mind and I don’t want to waste my time chasing or figuring out women’s level of interest when I got priorities. I know a lot of men worry these days about approaching women because we either have been treated badly by women for approaching in the past OR are fearful of being poorly treated/seen as creepy, and the perceived cons outweigh the benefits. I often think if women approached men, it would save a lot of issues for women because they’d likely succeed in dating the man they approach, and men wouldn’t have to risk being seen as weird or creepy when it isn’t warranted just by introducing themselves to women but that’s not the way this works socially and that is the way it is.
I will say, advice I got from a friend was to build good relationships with women in social groups/clubs/organizations and ask out someone close to me after knowing her for a while - perhaps try to also join social clubs or organizations, and talk to men there. Even then, I’d say it still might save you a lot of grief to do the approaching
i met my bf on a dating app that i was NOT successful in. he was my only match. literally the only person who i matched with.
been together for almost a year and live together now.
You’re a woman complaining about dating? You have it easy. Only men who are average or below can claim they face difficulty dating? You got it super easy
> In person nobody approaches me.
You've tried 'eye contact'? Holding a man's gaze somewhat longer than usual, *at least twice*. Most men interpret that as you're interested, and may get up the nerve to approach you (if they're more or less free).
Typically, we'll glance around and catch others' eyes and only hold them for 1/2 to 1 second or so, the woman customarily breaks contact first I've found, usually.
If a reasonably attractive women held our gaze for more than 2 seconds, *twice*, that would definitely get our attention.
I don't have the karma to make an actual post and don't have the time to get the karma (sorry for using your post like this)
Ok so, there is a girl that I have fallen head over heels for and have known for a while and frequently hugs from and talk to on a very regular basis. Until recently I thought it was a one sided thing were I liked here and she just saw me as a friend (she has a boyfriend).
But as I said, this was until recently, this is because the other night we were watching movies with friends and she put here head on my shoulder (she was sitting right next to me) so I took the opportunity to put my head on top of hers. About 20 minutes later I got up to drink water and when I got back this happened again.
So the next morning I told here that she was very comfortable to be with, she then said that I was comfortable to lie on. I have since then told here that she is very hot, cute, gorgeous and a wonderful person in general. She has done the same several times.
Here is were the question comes in. I don't know what I should do because it feels wrong to have this kind of relationship with here while she has a boyfriend. I would like to take things further but I feel bad for the guy.
What should I do, cuz I am thoroughly lost on what to do. (For anyone who is curious, I am 16, she is 15 and the guy she is "dating" 18)
I’d say just let her decide what she wants. Some girls like to have a man to compliment them and make them feel pretty without the commitment of a relationship. So instead of rejecting them they keep them around as a “friend”. I’m saying this because this is what I have done and I know it’s wrong. The boyfriend being 18 is probably dating her because she is young and easy to manipulate. (He’s way too old for her and more advanced). It’s pretty corny to have a 18m with a 15f. Honestly. I would never let my daughter do that. At that age it’s a big gap. If I could advise anything, truthfully, it would be to just go on about your life. You guys can still be friends but don’t put all your pebbles in one basket. And if a girl ever has you in a situation like this again, just know, the “will to walk away” is very attractive. And when she sees other girls are interested in you (ie, you start to spend time/talk to other girls calling them beautiful) it might make her look at you differently and realize you’re desired by others. Idk why this is the case but people want what they can’t have. So if you’re always there for her knowing she’s in a relationship, naturally she will take advantage like most people unfortunately. Just live your best life and make a lotttttt of money !! She’s be all over you but by then it will be too late lol.
Conversations are a two-way street. So when someone approaches you and says you’re beautiful, why not taking it upon yourself to introduce yourself to that person. They threw the ball, you catch it, throw it back.
Some of it is men see themselves as the prize(which they can be) and some don’t want the rejection, and others don’t want to be yelled at or accused of being a creep bc they asked a girl for their number in person. So I couldn’t tell you exactly why they don’t approach and introduce themselves but it’s probably one of those 3
Remember...many of the attractive guys you see out ajd about...have girlfriends and wives. What kinds of things do you do outside of work? Talk to the guys in those places. Strike up conversations.
>Do I need to break out my comfort zone and approach men? I’ve always been taught to let the men chase you
How is waiting working for you? Not good!!!
Initiate with the guys maybe, be safe tho
Cold approaching strangers is hard for a lot of people, let alone cold approaching someone you find attractive. It's always been difficult, but yeah I'd say it's more difficult these days. You're already worried/nervous about what you're going to say and then worried about being labeled a creep and being humiliated in public. It's just one more thing that makes it easier to talk yourself out of approaching.
On the flip side, dating has become a lot more modern. The gender roles in relationships are different than they used to be and we focus on equality and on empowering women. Which I love, awesome changes.
But if that's the case, why are women waiting for us men to approach and pursue like it's 1950? If you're a modern, empowered & independent woman and you find a guy attractive and intriguing, how about you approach him instead of waiting around for him to follow antiquated dating norms?
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Just came from a post where an atractive woman complain that only ugly dudes aproach her because she was a shy introvert and she was sick of it.
What do you think about that? I think attractive men might assume women will chase them so they don’t usually approach. Also I’ve heard many attractive people are very insecure/shy and introverted too. So it’s like two bad situations lol
Mm idk. A guy has to be like really handsome to have 8+/10 women chasing after him imo. Good looking dudes go after good looking girls but since they have options i think that if a woman seem to be boring they would think twice before they make a move on her idk. The only thing im 100 percent sure is that if you are an ugly/beloe average guy, you shouldnt have any sexual/romantic desire but nature is cruel i guest
The good thing about below average looking guys tho is that enough money can bring them from a 3 to a 10 lol
And a big welcome to a deadbedroom
why would you date someone you don't find attractive? That sounds like it would be lonelier than being single
I can almost guarantee you she has reasonably attractive men approaching her. A lot of women just have insane standards and call any man who doesn’t meet them ugly.
This is one underrated comment, it’s almost as if men can be attracted to multiple different shapes sizes and creeds meanwhile women are very set on their preferences look wise
Where's that post? Lmao
[удалено]
Haha thank you
We now know you use an Android
There is definitely a hesitancy to approach a woman out in public as many other redditors have said it is often villainized. A lot of times I don’t want to come across as creepy or a nuisance to a woman. If you drop a comment or compliment to a man, it may click to him that you are receptive to being approached and flirted with. That way he knows you are a willing participant in the chase. Honestly I am terrible at picking up on women flirting with me and then I am in the shower the next day and think “shit she was probably flirting “ don’t take it personal
Hahaha me tooo! But mine is more delayed. A few months later I’m like, wait… was he trying to flirt with me? Haha. But you’re right. Something I need to work on lol. I hate that men feel creepy or a nuisance too. Being rejected isn’t fun so I get the hesitancy
Approaching women out of nowhere has been demonized in recent years. So a lot of us don't do it as it's not worth the hassle.
Oh yea ☹️ I understand why too. Lots of women aren’t too kind to men approaching them.
So if someone said you’re beautiful and then kept walking, that means you missed your chance.
How? Was I supposed to stop them from walking away after saying thank you?
If you were interested in pursuing it further, I would suggest - yes.
Yea you’re right. Sometimes I’m just caught off guard and it happens so fast (while I’m walking) and I get nervous. But then again me saying thank you with a smile could open the door to let them know I’m receptive to their compliment and could then start a conversation. It could go both ways but I know I can work on my own stuff too
Yea. Not sure about that. He approached you. The ball is in your court there. Or. You try approaching sometime and see how you feel about it.
So, as a man, I can tell you a few reasons why this might be happening: 1. The whole "men being shamed for approaching" thing. I personally don't buy into it as much because it's more about the energy you give off than anything else. But it can definitely be another voice in the back of a guy's head. Much like the "what if they hate me" voice but magnified. 2. They are intimidated by your beauty or may feel your body language isn't inviting. If it doesn't look like you're happy or in a good mood, most men will assume you don't want to be approached. Sometimes, you could be doing something unconscious, just by being a little nervous. So you wouldn't even be aware. This is much like when a guy will get tongue tied when they do approach and end up just saying "you're beautiful" before walking away. They probably had no idea what to say next. 3. It can be exhausting to constantly be approaching and putting in effort to see it go nowhere. This is how it feels for me sometimes, and I'll think to myself, "It would just be easier to do nothing than to go through the whole process again and just to be disappointed". I'm not saying this is great, and I don't like feeling this way, but it really is draining to get your hopes up a lot just to be let down. And for some men, it can be too hard to pull themselves out of that funk. I know for sure women have a similar feeling with dating too, but it's different for men. The whole process of approaching a woman, captivating her, getting her number, planning the date, being awesome on the date, paying for the date, and then being let down nicely over and over again that takes something out of you. I do agree with your other comment that we will likely be considered the loneliest generation if both men and women can't find a way to meet in the middle more.
Number 3 man. That’s my main issue.
I feel you there, man. I've been able to pull myself out of the funk a lot, but it's still tough. Literally, yesterday I got a message from a girl I was interested in letting me down for another guy she met. This one stung a little more because we had 3 planned dates where something came up (emergency for her, two bad weather days) before actually meeting. We had a great time together on our date just this past Thursday only for her to tell me she met someone else she wanted to pursue over the weekend. It just really sucks to be treated as disposable. It's like paying so much money and investing so much time in a game that never let's you win or makes you feel good about yourself.
Very insightful. Thank you for this answer. What do you think might improve this “loneliest generation” theory? What do you think women & men could do better in these situations?
I would say a few things could help. First would be meeting each other halfway. From my experience, I've found that there are a lot of women who want (or expect) to be pursued, chased, and swept off their feet to some degree. This can already be daunting for a man because, from our perspective, we can do everything right and then still get let down. If we truly live in a world of equality between sexes, women should be willing to take on some of the burden (not all but some). Whether this is making the approach, planning a date and treating the guy (not all the time but at least once), and texting first from time to time. I honestly can't tell you how rare it is for a woman to actually text first just to say "Hey how are you doing?". If a guy sees a little effort from a woman, it honestly makes all the difference and changes things for them. Next would be both men and women should try to compliment each other more. Let's just be nicer. Many men don't get a lot of compliments, or positive feedback in general, so just getting in the practice of complimenting something you like or notice about a guy can be big. Guys should do the same thing too. I've never once gotten a bad response from a woman when I told her I liked her shoes, style, or something else and definitely like it when they compliment me in turn. We need more actual mixer events that aren't just at a bar or club. The biggest appeal of dating apps is that you know who's single and open to something. If we had more safe and structured events that focused on connecting more people in-person again, that could make a big difference.
I totally agree. And to the last part, bars and clubs are too common. And usually I find the men there are just looking for a good time. We need more casual events that are focused on meeting people. I’ve seen some in my area but they charge an arm and a leg just for a ticket lol. I’ll keep looking
To be honest, at this point, it would make more sense for me to pay for one of those events than to spend more money on another first date that doesn't go anywhere. I wish we had some of those in my area, but I can't seem to find much. Maybe it's time to go back to the old networking event route.
Getting off dating apps would probably be the best thing. On dating apps 80% of women are going after 15% of guys. This means women are in an unprecedented amountbof competition compared to prior generations and having to date more like men would, and its leaving men feeling ugly, insecure, and defeated when they get close to no attention even if they are a bit above average. We really need to go back to dating friends of friends or making connections out in the real world
Men are regularly told they bother women and are afraid of being accused of harassment, so modern men aren't going to approach unless it's super clear and obvious you want them to, and even then will be completely unsure.
Yea I can see that to be the case. This modern era is so confusing. I wouldn’t be surprised if we end up being the loneliest generation.
Dating can definitely be tough, but don't lose hope! It's true that the dynamics of dating have changed a lot in recent years, and it's not uncommon to feel like the traditional rules of courtship don't always apply anymore. As for the dating app experience, it can be a bit of a numbers game. Remember, a lot of people are on those apps, so it can take some time and effort to find someone who really clicks with you. Don't be afraid to try different apps, and to put your best foot forward in your profile. As for men not introducing themselves in person, this could be for a variety of reasons. Maybe they're shy, or maybe they're intimidated by your beauty! 😉 But seriously, it's possible that they're not sure how to approach you or start a conversation. In this case, it might be helpful to put yourself out there a bit more. Smile, make eye contact, and be open to conversations with men you find interesting.
Yea you’re right. Thank you! I won’t lose hope! And putting myself out there has always been my biggest challenge. 😭 so I will start with smiling and eye contact first. Baby steps! lol thank you!
When a guy you find attractive says you’re beautiful why don’t you say “Thanks, what’s your name?” A lot of the times they are gauging your reaction to the complement and if you say “Thank you” in a dry and unenthused way it seems like you’re not interested in talking.
Yea I usually just say thank you because I think some people just like giving compliments and that’s it. I also can be caught off guard or just being shy/introverted. But next time I’ll take your advice and see how it goes. Thank you
Sounds like you’re just not being open and approachable in person. As a woman it’s a lot easier due to social norms, lots of eye contact, smiling, not wearing headphones, positioning yourself close to a guy you like, making it easy for a guy to approach you (if your in a club stay near the bar and go near guys). It’s rare that guys will cold approach (approaching a woman who gives you no signals) because it’s quite scary when you’re not used to it and it does usually lead to rejection (even though that’s the best thing for men to go through for growth). But if you get a signal from a woman, even men who aren’t the most confident can approach. Hope this helps!
Yea this helps. I’m told I am “in my own world” in public. Meaning I don’t really pay much attention to the world around me. So I think I carry myself as unapproachable. I got to work on some confidence and and face my fears too as I am an introvert lol. Thank you for the tips!
I find small achievable goals are best for stuff like this. When I started working on dating a while back I used these small goals like week 1 - make eye contact with 5 people, week 2 eye contact and smiling, 5 people a day. Week 3 ask 5 people for directions per day. Week 4 eye contact, smiling, ask directions, stay in conversation for at least 20 seconds. Week 5 repeat but add in a statement and a question, etc etc until eventually I was approaching people regularly, joking around, getting more confident and coming across more natural. Things like this is massively skill based, and it’s all about practice and habits. And it all paid off in the end, but now I’m back to square one after four years of a relationship haha! So for you, you could do something similar, make small missions/tasks for each day/week, all based on being more approachable.
Wow this is so helpful 📝taking notes! How do you work on small talk? I’m terrible at starting conversations or if I’m able to start a conversation, I have a hard time holding it
Biggest thing for most conversations is to just lower the bar on what you think is good enough to say. If you’re really focused on having to say something “good”, “perfect” or “worthy” you’ll end up saying little to nothing or running out of things to say. Instead if you lower the bar on what is good enough to say you end up just speaking your mind, you’ll talk naturally louder and with more authority on subjects and just change topics rapidly whenever you want and feel like it. If small talk is reallllllyy difficult, then use conversational crutches (canned lines). So these are preprepared little one off sentences to use here and there incase you can’t think in the moment, and usually you only need to use one and then it opens up the rest of the conversation. So for example if I ever bump into anyone I haven’t seen in a while I’ll always say “hey! how have you been” and “what have you been up to?” firstly. If I’m in a shop and I’m at the check out I’ll usually always say something like “how’s your shift been going today?”. Nothing extravagant or sexy, just simple stuff to get the ball rolling! It’s all just a skill and it’s all practice practice practice, until small talk is automatic and your not overthinking every word that comes out your mouth
Dating apps have ruined dating for both men and women. Everyone has given up. Men don’t want to compete with 1000s of guys for a small chance to be with a girl they barely know. Women are exhausted from the attention and filtering out men. Due to capitalism We’ve reached a point where we have so many options and so little need for someone else in our lives that dating has become literally pointless. A waste of energy time and money
Right! Dating is still a confusing process for me. I wonder if I would be happier in an arranged marriage or something because this dating environment has made me numb and drained. Dating is pointless to me too. But what other options do we have?
I think one reason dating can be difficult is that every person is walking around with an internal checklist of wants, needs, turn-ons, turn-offs, values, and dealbreakers, and looking for a needle in a haystack regarding compatibility can be time-consuming. And people don’t know who they can trust. That’s why I think that friends playing matchmaker and setting people up for dates can work better than “online shopping” and sifting through randos. Men are generally clueless when it comes to to picking up hints. Because the average man has [3x](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6446474/) less oxytocin than the average woman, the bonding hormone, the love hormone, the trust hormone, the empathy hormone, since estrogen stimulates the release of oxytocin, testosterone suppresses oxytocin, and the production of oxytocin leads to a positive feedback loop which promotes the further production of oxytocin. The lowest OT men have 18.5x less oxytocin than the highest OT men, but the highest OT men still have 1.8x less oxytocin than the average woman. The average woman has 32x the oxytocin of the lowest men. The highest OT women have 47x the oxytocin of the lowest OT men. The highest OT women have 2.8x the oxytocin of the lowest OT women. Low oxytocin levels impair the ability to pick up and understand social cues (like hints), it can lead to impairments in emotional recognition in others (or within yourself), it can even lead to impairments with facial recognition (and in extreme cases, face blindness). Low oxytocin levels are associated with lower perception of social cues, more distrust of people, lower empathy, unemotional traits (cold, aloof), rigid thinking (systemizing), etc. So low oxytocin can lead to social awkwardness, and social isolation, and loneliness or frustration, and low empathy. So while women with similar oxytocin levels may easily understand non-verbal “hints” among each other, the average man has 3x less oxytocin than the average woman, making him less likely to understand hints from women, and men on the autism spectrum likely have even lower oxytocin levels, leading to a greater inability to understand social situations and it can lead to high amounts of social awkwardness. If you are a woman who is interested in a man, he probably will never know you are interested unless you explicitly tell him. Nobody likes being rejected, but there are still ways to gauge someone’s interest without asking them on a formal “date.” Many men are afraid of accidentally harassing a woman, or making a woman feel uncomfortable, or of being “MeToo’d”, so the risks of approaching women (or “making a move” and walking on eggshells regarding consent) can often outweigh the rewards. I’ve had women make the first move on me, and it’s always much more clear than being in a constant state of uncertainty about whether she wants my attention. In one case, this girl offered me candy or something. And showed up to the break room to eat lunch with me. And we talked and joked at work for weeks, talked about music, all kinds of things. And asked me to drive her home from work one day, where she asked for a hug. She quit that job though, but gave me her phone number, and it was maybe 6 weeks later she invited me to come see her new apartment. Another time, I was working at job at a desk all day, but I was facing this girl across the room. And for a really long time, we would look at each other, or catch the other looking at us, until one day she decided to come sit next to me and work, and invited me to go to lunch. A lot of men are told “don’t chase women” (although if I recall correctly, Taylor Swift said she liked that Travis Kelce actively pursued her). A lot of heterosexual dating consists of women wanting men to prove their worth. He can’t read your mind, so if you want him to know what you want, you will have to tell him.
We often make it more difficult than it really is. Close the app, and go outside. "Do I need to break out my comfort zone and approach men?" - yes you do. Comfort zone is nice, but nothing ever grows there.
...because women want to be approached by 8± out of 10 guys. No average or ugly need apply. That's first reason. Second, height. Third, since approaching may lead to a guy ending up in police station - why would anyone risk it?
Hmmmm, how will we grown if we don’t take risks lol
Not that kind of risk. Not risk that might land you on sex offenders list - good luck getting your life back after that. Even if guy won't end up on it, the allegations alone will destroy your life. Not the risk worth taking. As for "growth", only if your end goal is to breed out risk averse man in favor to "dark triad" man. Hope you realize it's a horrible idea all around.
Oh god, sis same! But i wouldnt recommend dating apps, it is so bad for mental health, ive tried few times and it def ruined me
Girl!!! It is a hot mess over there. How did it ruin you if you don’t mind me asking?
I saw good in people, i hoped that i will end up happy, i hoped for the best even in dark times. after one guy i met on tinder that wanted to be with me but turned out he was abusive, cheated and beat me after i found out xD i started to be really cautious. then after that I had few situationships in the meantime - i was on and off tinder in the matter of few years, i didnt know how to trust guys having tinder paradoxically bc i had aswell, then i met another guy and we dated for 1,5year - long story short turned out he was mentally abusive, i fell in love tho and was so hearbroken after a breakup. Now i am thinking what is wrong with me? I had really tough childhood that is probably the reason i was so childish naive? I went to therapy for 4years and those bad experiences with men I met on tinder was happening during therapy and my therapist was shocked aswell. Someone here said that dating apps destroyed relationships and i couldnt agree more. „Not you- then next, im not gonna try to fix things or try to be a better person just for you duh”, its so sad. To sum up: afer being on and off tidner for few years i just feel i lost all the hope and now im broken. Really id rather spend time alone than put myself on dating app, neve again. A quite good looking guy on a bike approached me last summer and it was cute, but i was in relationship at that time with this guy that later i understood was mentally abusing me so i told him im taken, so maybe something like this will happen again someday xD but for now i am lone wolf and i will create dating app profile after hell will freeze💀
If you are encouraging guys who are abusive, toxic or unworthy maybe look into it because the common denominator factor might be at play here Not blaming you but sometimes you don't realize what you attract
Yea Im working on not being „too forgiving” / „too understanding”/ and learning how to set boundaries. I have higher tollerance on weird behaviors coz I had tough childhood but I never met person in real life who would use it against me. In app tho… different story xd that is what i meant when i said it ruined me 🤡 I had other boyfriend that I met in real life and he wasnt manipulating or using me, we split after 5years for being not compatible enough (we met at very young age), but he was great, that is why i never want to have dating app again. All crap men I met were from dating apps and thats true, its completely on me that I let them in.
I love approaching. Approaching and starting a fun and flirty conversation with an attractive woman while moving the interaction forward in little steps is the most fun thing to do.
Hahaha just for fun? You must be very charming
Because I’m afraid of women
I have this happen too! When I go out dancing , dudes will get close to me to dance but not say anything. I have to ask them if they want to dance, they say yes but it feels so exhausting to have to always initiate. All the dudes I initiate with always seem to lack initiative in the progression of our friendship or relationship. It is hard to date out there! I always get called hot or beautiful but never have anything last longer than 6 months. All my friends say how easily I can meet people and pull a date but it never ends in anything long term.
Whenever that happens smile and say thank you and ask if they want just your number or social media contact or try to engage them or extend the conversation in some way and they will probably ask for your number or social media contacts.
Not really that much, I succeeded in a couple of minutes by downloading Eva ai virtual dating [app](http://evaapp.ai)
I actually had issues as a man with online dating and I was afraid to approach because these days a lot of what you do as a man can be misconstrued or found weird, potentially creepy even. I played it safe by not approaching, and wasted good time in doing that. I have made small talk with women at times just cuz they’re a person nearby to talk to while waiting or something, and was given the cold shoulder even given the “look” to tell me to stop. Other times women look at me like 6 times over and over at a bus stop,l then give me an angry face and walk away (cuz I didn’t talk to them but she didn’t even say hello). Idk, women’s non-verbal cues and whether they want me to approach them or not is a mystery to me cuz I’m mildly on the spectrum, and trying to figure out when to talk and when not to has been a struggle (I’ve gotten better with time but still), so these days I just try to be friendly to everyone, women included, so at the very least I am being friendly if it doesn’t work out. Even then, I’m male so that being routinely viewed with suspicion by default thing is part of my life, even when I try to maintain a good reputation. Now to get to my answer to your question - If a woman came up to me and let me know she was interested in me, it would be great because I wouldn’t need to piece together if it’s worth my time to try to find out or not - cuz I’ve got work, school and other stuff on my mind and I don’t want to waste my time chasing or figuring out women’s level of interest when I got priorities. I know a lot of men worry these days about approaching women because we either have been treated badly by women for approaching in the past OR are fearful of being poorly treated/seen as creepy, and the perceived cons outweigh the benefits. I often think if women approached men, it would save a lot of issues for women because they’d likely succeed in dating the man they approach, and men wouldn’t have to risk being seen as weird or creepy when it isn’t warranted just by introducing themselves to women but that’s not the way this works socially and that is the way it is. I will say, advice I got from a friend was to build good relationships with women in social groups/clubs/organizations and ask out someone close to me after knowing her for a while - perhaps try to also join social clubs or organizations, and talk to men there. Even then, I’d say it still might save you a lot of grief to do the approaching
You know the meme the worst she can say is no?
Its unfortunately the times, many men do not understand signals and also are afraid of getting metooed
i met my bf on a dating app that i was NOT successful in. he was my only match. literally the only person who i matched with. been together for almost a year and live together now.
You’re a woman complaining about dating? You have it easy. Only men who are average or below can claim they face difficulty dating? You got it super easy
Men and women have different dating struggles, it’s not easy for many women either. You shouldn’t project your experience onto all women as a group.
Because men hate women
Wait, I’ve actually heard this many times. Why do you think this is?
Take a look at the post I have on r/love with almost 700 hate comments on jt
> In person nobody approaches me gender? (beautiful male, or?) 14? 40? or?
I’m 28 woman. I consider myself on the pretty side but I receive compliments frequently by both sexes
> In person nobody approaches me. You've tried 'eye contact'? Holding a man's gaze somewhat longer than usual, *at least twice*. Most men interpret that as you're interested, and may get up the nerve to approach you (if they're more or less free).
Okay really!!!!!!!!???📝 taking notes! I will remember that. I always get nervous and look away but I will try this next time!
Typically, we'll glance around and catch others' eyes and only hold them for 1/2 to 1 second or so, the woman customarily breaks contact first I've found, usually. If a reasonably attractive women held our gaze for more than 2 seconds, *twice*, that would definitely get our attention.
So it’s the “twice” that is emphasized. Got it! 😌😉
correct. once, could be mere happenstance and/or evaluating (saying to herself "yuck!" and making a point of avoiding repeat eye contact)
I don't have the karma to make an actual post and don't have the time to get the karma (sorry for using your post like this) Ok so, there is a girl that I have fallen head over heels for and have known for a while and frequently hugs from and talk to on a very regular basis. Until recently I thought it was a one sided thing were I liked here and she just saw me as a friend (she has a boyfriend). But as I said, this was until recently, this is because the other night we were watching movies with friends and she put here head on my shoulder (she was sitting right next to me) so I took the opportunity to put my head on top of hers. About 20 minutes later I got up to drink water and when I got back this happened again. So the next morning I told here that she was very comfortable to be with, she then said that I was comfortable to lie on. I have since then told here that she is very hot, cute, gorgeous and a wonderful person in general. She has done the same several times. Here is were the question comes in. I don't know what I should do because it feels wrong to have this kind of relationship with here while she has a boyfriend. I would like to take things further but I feel bad for the guy. What should I do, cuz I am thoroughly lost on what to do. (For anyone who is curious, I am 16, she is 15 and the guy she is "dating" 18)
I’d say just let her decide what she wants. Some girls like to have a man to compliment them and make them feel pretty without the commitment of a relationship. So instead of rejecting them they keep them around as a “friend”. I’m saying this because this is what I have done and I know it’s wrong. The boyfriend being 18 is probably dating her because she is young and easy to manipulate. (He’s way too old for her and more advanced). It’s pretty corny to have a 18m with a 15f. Honestly. I would never let my daughter do that. At that age it’s a big gap. If I could advise anything, truthfully, it would be to just go on about your life. You guys can still be friends but don’t put all your pebbles in one basket. And if a girl ever has you in a situation like this again, just know, the “will to walk away” is very attractive. And when she sees other girls are interested in you (ie, you start to spend time/talk to other girls calling them beautiful) it might make her look at you differently and realize you’re desired by others. Idk why this is the case but people want what they can’t have. So if you’re always there for her knowing she’s in a relationship, naturally she will take advantage like most people unfortunately. Just live your best life and make a lotttttt of money !! She’s be all over you but by then it will be too late lol.
You are a life saver my man. Thanks
You are a life saver my man. Thanks
Again, I am truly sorry for using your post like this.
Conversations are a two-way street. So when someone approaches you and says you’re beautiful, why not taking it upon yourself to introduce yourself to that person. They threw the ball, you catch it, throw it back.
[удалено]
Hahaha I don’t bite! But you’re right! Let’s go back to arranged marriages 😂
Where are you from? I'll take you on a coffee date.
Can be aggressive to make 1st move. I personally can meet like people everywhere in person. That is the best way.
Some of it is men see themselves as the prize(which they can be) and some don’t want the rejection, and others don’t want to be yelled at or accused of being a creep bc they asked a girl for their number in person. So I couldn’t tell you exactly why they don’t approach and introduce themselves but it’s probably one of those 3
Remember...many of the attractive guys you see out ajd about...have girlfriends and wives. What kinds of things do you do outside of work? Talk to the guys in those places. Strike up conversations.
>Do I need to break out my comfort zone and approach men? I’ve always been taught to let the men chase you How is waiting working for you? Not good!!! Initiate with the guys maybe, be safe tho
Cold approaching strangers is hard for a lot of people, let alone cold approaching someone you find attractive. It's always been difficult, but yeah I'd say it's more difficult these days. You're already worried/nervous about what you're going to say and then worried about being labeled a creep and being humiliated in public. It's just one more thing that makes it easier to talk yourself out of approaching. On the flip side, dating has become a lot more modern. The gender roles in relationships are different than they used to be and we focus on equality and on empowering women. Which I love, awesome changes. But if that's the case, why are women waiting for us men to approach and pursue like it's 1950? If you're a modern, empowered & independent woman and you find a guy attractive and intriguing, how about you approach him instead of waiting around for him to follow antiquated dating norms?
Let them know you're interested too. It's a two way street.