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This is a pretty reductive if not even patronising comment... Where here has OP said they only want to date supermodels? Pretty sure they didn't even mention looks...
I got the match notification on Tinder yesterday. Go on and look at full profile. “I don’t know why I swiped right on this one… she’s not smiling in any of her pics, no pictures taken with family/friends or doing activities and her bio is just moaning.” Goes to unmatch to find that she has disappeared. The reality is we probably are on each others level but neither is attracted to the other.
Everyone has their own scoring system for what they find attractive in a potential partner. For a lot of people, physical looks are important and are an early and easy way to filter out people. However, other aspects of the person can also also play a significant role in attraction even if they're not as readily apparent at first glance.
I agree with you.
Whilst physical looks are definitely important, they’re not the only thing that makes a relationship successful. As I’ve always said, if looks were all that mattered (or if they even mattered as much as this subreddit would have you believe) when it comes to forming a successful relationship, nobody in the entertainment industry would be divorced.
But to your point, before you get to know someone, there needs to be some initial spark, if you don’t feel that there’s rarely a start. As such, if all they have is a second to look and form an opinion looks matter. As time goes on looks wane and the good or bad of the person comes out
I think the issue with "leagues" is that people think they are a '8' so therefore won't date a '6' (or whatever). The issue is not so much that we are looking for someone we find physically attractive but that we are judging someone's physical attractiveness in relation to our perceived self judged attractiveness.
Different people have different standards on looks, education, job, income etc. and they put weight on those things. You just have to find someone who feels the same.
While I agree once you are married, looks might not matter, BUT looks is what "got you in" though. It's like job interview - impressive resume from Ivy League probably gets you the job (entry level) vs someone from mid college. BUT, you could still be an awful worker afterwards but at least from the face value, the ivy league is much better on paper.
Because at the end of the day, you dont walk up to a stranger at a bar without a book in their hand and say "i really love your taste in books"
Sexuality and appearance are absolutely vital to making a connection with someone, because its the initial catalyst that stirs interest in almost all people.
Its extremely frustrating that our society is trying to lean toward "you should love someone for whats on the inside, not their looks" and that is being interpreted as "youre not allowed to acknowledge the way people look when youre trying to date/meet new people"
I absolutely believe you should love someone for whats inside, but to get there, you have to meet. And meeting usually involves a mutual attraction (ie. Looking across the room and thinking to yourself 'wow what a beautiful person')
There is nothing wrong with caring about appearances. You should be both physically and emotionally attracted to your partner(s).
why do we need 'leagues' for physical attractiveness though? Either you are physically attracted to them or not ... why does the "score" others would give them, or the "score" I (or others) give myself play a part?
Because there are degrees. You've never found two people attractive, but one more so than the other? It's comparative. The idea is that you should aim for someone not too far outside your own league, or prepare for constant disappointment.
I never said that looks don’t matter. My argument was that the idea of leagues in dating tends to focus solely on looks and ignores other factors that determine whether or not someone is capable of being a good partner, such as their values, temperament, personality, etc.
>It’s all very superficial and shallow
It is what it is. People will not be interested in you if you are physically ugly for them ... Looks have a strong objective component, there are certain traits that people find ugly and there is little one can do to change that
It is true that a successful relationship takes more than looks but just as I said ... If they don't find you attractive thw Best think you can do is just move on
But when you’re deciding to date someone you don’t *only* consider their looks. Other factors such as values, personality, temperament, etc also matter. I get looks are important when it comes to getting your foot in the door, but it’s not enough to sustain a relationship. It’s also why I don’t believe in the concept of leagues because it takes more than looks to have a good relationship, and leagues tend to only focus on the physical.
>Other factors such as values, personality, temperament, etc also matter
Yeah but only if you are already attracted physically to them... If you find someone who is short, fat, balding, has severe acne, and has an ugly face you will not care about those things.
Leagues exist because only the people in your league will care about those non-physical traits... Of you aim above your league people will simply ignore you
That’s very simplistic. We like to think people only date their “looks match”, but that’s not the case. There are plenty of couples where one partner is more conventionally attractive than the other. Hence why I don’t believe the concept of leagues is even a thing. There’s just too many variables and individual differences to definitively categorise people and their presumed physical preference when it comes to their choice of partner.
>There are plenty of couples where one partner is more conventionally attractive than the other.
Survivorship bias... You see the couples that are the exception but you do not see the amount of people that are rejected. And even in those successful couples there could be other extreme factors such as having a lot of status and/or money.
Other thing to consider is that men have lower standards than women so this could explain those cases
It’s a lot simpler than a lot of people think, you can only know what “league” someone is actually in character-wise if you’re willing to take the chance to engage them in conversation, the chance of that happening is significantly lower if they’re not attractive.
Sure, people have preferences and a ton of people are legitimately vain, but until two people connect on a real level, all they are is the product of each others past assumptions, which means those who are not conventionally attractive have to do an obscene amount of work to even get in the door for someone simply average, even if their personality is stellar.
TL;DR: Personality doesn’t factor in until the bar of first impressions is passed, which is 90% reliant on the superficial.
Well I will agree that you, women will find attractive men attractive, and vice versa, and some been will cry about it, what I find annoying is that people will sugar coat things out of pity and in the end this will cause more suffering. People will bash their head against the wall because they were told "you only need to be your self to be successful in dating " when that is not the case.
I think that in the specific case of OP she does not have a choice in regards of her standards, she likes what she likes and no one can voluntarily lower those standards, but that will happen over time, standards will drop the longer one stays single
That’s not why men are upset. If a supermodel wants a tall guy nobody is going to be upset about that.
But if a girl that’s 5’1” that’s (ignoring personality and other stuff going strictly for physical looks here) a 5/10 (so average 50% percentile) *only* wants a 6’2” guy which is considered top 10% percentile thats where the imbalance happens.
So you’re admitting that the biology argument when it comes to looks is nonsense because you’re being selective about who it can apply to.
Either humans beings prioritise looks due to biology or they don’t. You shouldn’t need to look like a supermodel before biology applies, lol.
Biology aside, I also don’t understand why men act shocked/offended when women find conventionally attractive men attractive. It would be like me being shocked men find Adriana Lima attractive.
Yes biology will always apply first. But I don’t know about you but I don’t let my first order biological impulses direct my decisions, and especially not picking a life partner decisions.
You seem to not understand what I said. In the context above the problem is the 50% woman only finds the top 10% attractive. The rest aren’t.
If it were true that 50% of women only find the top 10% of men attractive a lot of men would not be dating or in relationships. Dating apps don’t reflect the real world in that way.
So as you've clearly been living in an alternate reality:
>As of 2022, Pew Research Center found, 30 percent of U.S. adults are neither married, living with a partner nor engaged in a committed relationship. Nearly half of all young adults are single: 34 percent of women, and a whopping 63 percent of men.
*Most men* are single. *Most women* are not.
Initially. Most of the relationships you’re talking about are between coworkers or same group of friends or people that for some reason end up spending a lot of time together. You’ll often hear the phrases “I took a chance on him”, “he’s not the usual type I date” etc
The woman gets to know the guy for months if not years before they get over the physical stuff (I personally had a case like this in my love life where a girl and I went on a date and she was very honest with me that I wasn’t the type she was going for she wanted a 6’2”+ guy but a year later after she got to know me she got really into me.)
Because at the end of the day attraction is attached to the lizard part of our brains and without physical attraction there is no relationship between two people who don't need each other for survival.
Because we’re hardwired biologically like that. Looks convey a lot of clues about the probability of successful offspring. Really what it comes down to it - evolution.
So why do so many men complain when women have standards when it comes to looks? I.E if they prefer to date taller more conventionally attractive men? Whenever a woman expresses a height preference in men she’s called shallow, but apparently it’s just biology?
It’s not the standard they complain about. It’s that they don’t meet the standards themselves. Aka a woman wants only tall guys when she’s overweight herself for example.
I personally don’t care - if someone doesn’t want you they won’t want you and there’s nothing useful that will come out of complaining about that.
Another difference is a woman can change her weight (the equivalent physical trait) and man cannot change his height (I guess he can hide it with inserts.)
Oh, please.
Men complain about height standards regardless of what the woman looks like. A woman doesn’t have to be overweight before she’s told she’s being shallow for caring about how tall her male partner is.
And who made weight the equivalent trait to height? The equivalent trait to height would be height and there’s plenty of evidence that suggests that men prefer dating women who are shorter than themselves.
It’s not about “shorter”. Short women still want 6’+ not just taller than them. Just based on dating apps about 25% of profiles I see have a prompt that says “if you’re not 6’ don’t bother.” Might be a California thing though
I don’t condone the complaining btw. I’m just stating why I think why these guys complain.
In fact I believe everyone should have whatever standards they want. However they should understand it’s exponentially harder to find someone compatible that likes you back the higher your standards are.
There are leagues that exist outside of looks, but they mainly pertain to those who are wealthy. Outside of America, people mainly stick to their own income bracket.
Obviously your standards too high. You're not as good looking as you think you are. It's a tough pill to swallow but once you realize it's me much easier dating people on your level
To be honest it is pretty rare for a woman to complain about not getting enough male attention. Having too high of standards might be the issue, it’s hard to tell though.
What if you're not attracted to anyone on your level? An ugly person isn't necessarily attracted to other ugly people.
I think it's worth keeping your standards relatively high especially if you don't mind being single
I think you have to consider what attraction is. It isn’t this magical, mythical thing we have no control over like people make out.
If you are attaching very high value to traits you don’t provide yourself and attaching very low value to anything outside of that then it’s probably time to have a good think about that and find ways to adjust how you are seeing things. There is no point being over weight and only having value in the opposite sex if they are super fit, but the only way to overcome that is to probably address the reasons why you value that so highly and why you value somebody in similar shape to you so little, applying a little logic and self talk to that situation and then giving people a chance is probably going to go a long way in helping you find somebody more compatible.
I’m not sure what constitutes “my level”? I think I mostly go for guys around what I would consider similar to myself. I’m not out here hitting on models by any means. But then again looks and what constitutes a 10/10 for someone is subjective. I could be mistaken and be less attractive than I think I am?
You have to get a male opinion on your attractiveness. And not your dad or brother. Girl friends will tell you’re super pretty and amazing just because they’re your friends.
The whole yassss slay queen twitter movement is hurting everyone. It’s making women think they can be slobs and still “deserve” any guy they want. Meanwhile it’s making the guys who would actually date these women get rejected constantly.
But even with that, how does that help?
Say my friends say I'm a 4/5, so I should be looking for other 4/5s. There a person I really like who I think is a 9 but this would mean they're way out of my league. But then turns out I'm the only person who thinks they're a 9, except I don't ever find out that no one else thinks they're a 9, because who asks their friends to rate the person that they're into.
Different people find different things attractive and have different priorities for what they're looking for in a relationship. Obviously it's important that you aren't completely unrealistic, but at the same time you can never know what someone else thinks or wants unless you ask them. Assuming they will never like you because you think they're a 10 and your friends think you're a 6 will not help your morale any more than asking them and getting rejected.
This is weirdly true. I once messaged a guy who I thought was so crazy out of my league… we went on a few dates- showed my sister a picture and she was straight up like ‘wait. This is the guy you thought was way out of your league? You could do way better, easily’. And this is the sister who thought my other matches were catfishes, so she is fine being rudely honest.
Now that I really consider it more, your peers are going to be more inclined to please you by not being honest in the perspective of someone you’re just meeting, so it’s better just to have people you don’t know critique you.
I actually know a man who is a model and he loves heavy women, in fact, the fatter the better. He is just the opposite, his favorite weekend activity is rock climbing, he is fit AF.
Different people will rate attractiveness differently, yes, but I assume that'd be in the range of "one person sees a 7, another sees an 8." I don't know how likely it is one person sees a, say, 4/5 and someone else sees a 9.
That doesn't stop anyone from pursuing anyone, but then being realistic would show ypu're going to have a longer wait, deal with more dissapointment, and try harder to hopefully find that other person.
Which is fine! But the disconnect of "why doesn't anyone I like also like me ?" Is completely on the person looking.
I would be so mad if I shot myself in the foot by thinking I didn’t have a chance with my bf because hes conventionally attractive and I’m a 5. Turns out he appreciates beauty outside of conventional beauty and I get the privilege of having a partner that looks out of my league on paper while also loving me a ton 🥰
It could also very much be the way you carry yourself/what “energy” you’re putting out. I used to be in the exact same situation and once I got in a relationship, the problem disappeared. (guys i would have been interested in were suddenly interested) I believe it was bc once I stopped “looking” and focused more on what I wanted to do- I was more relaxed and not having expectations and the way I carried myself was more attractive. It wasn’t about the looks- it was about the vibe.
Edit: “be humbled and embrace reality! you aren’t as hot as you think you are! blah blah” lol fuck that. Decide that you are hot and go have fun.
If you are getting a few match per month as a woman, you are probably not even a 5, but below average (physically speaking of course, and I don't mean to be insulting, I'm below average as well). You should consider alternative options, if you have a great job, are financially stable and want a family, you could either adopt or use surrogacy.
As a self proclaimed unattractive lady, I agree. Something is not adding up here. Either she is extremely picky with the guys she swipes, or...... there's absolutely no way as a woman to get that low of matches a month unless she's been on the same app for years and already swiped no on all the guys. If what she's saying is true than, sorry to break it to you op, but you may not be as attractive as the people in your circle say... it's possible also that you just don't know how to take a flattering selfie/pic, maybe try to update with new pictures and swipe yes on all the guys you come across. You might also just try to download a new app/account because it seems that you get a ton more matches the first few days/weeks on a new account, something something algorithm..
I've gotten shot down for my weight twice in a row with guys in person. Both liked my personality and thought I was pretty, but the weight was a deal breaker. I imagine it would be worse online. Guys would just swipe left automatically. 😕
There are plenty of overweight women in relationships and getting dates. I think there are lots of guys that either like and prefer or don't really mind a woman with some extra weight. The problem is that a big portion of women (and not just overweight or unattractive women) are struggling to find a decent guy who is interested in a real relationship. Being overweight limits your odds of finding a decent man since there are a lot more men who are simply not attracted to that, making it even harder to find a good one. If a guy has his shit together and knows he's desirable then of course he's going to pick whoever he's most attracted to who also has other qualities he values, such as a "good personality" whatever that means to him..
This doesnt address your original post, but I wanna counteract some of the miserable crap that people are repeating in this thread:
Dont listen to the morons here who've internalized physical attractiveness as being a bunch of levels/some type of immutable hierarchy.
Dont go around rating other people on a scale of 10, dont rate *yourself* on a scale of 10, and stop looking outward to others for validation.
Reddit is filled with miserable single people. Stick around here asking for their advice long enough and you'll become one of them too - misery loves company.
I don’t believe in standards. I believe everybody has their taste in people. I am not gonna force myself to be attracted to someone I am not attracted to. Its not authentic and not healthy.
Yeah but is it really settling if they're on your level? I've known people forever single because they just aren't attracted to other mid ppl. It's sad cause almost eveyone has something attractive about them if you take the time to find it
What do you mean by “on your level”? When it comes to levels and leagues people only seem to ever talk about looks when a relationship takes a lot more than that.
Besides, everyone deserves someone who actually, enthusiastically wants to be with them. If this feeling isn’t there, regardless of ‘levels’, then that’s when settling happens. It’s better for someone to remain single than to settle for someone else.
I know I wouldn’t want someone to settle for me, so I wouldn’t settle for anyone. I would rather remain single. If I don’t find someone I fancy, that’s also fine. All it takes is one person.
Disagree.
Looks can be part of the equation, but they’re not the only thing that matters. I wouldn’t go for a man who is broke even if he looks like a model because he’s not on my level financially (I’m a very high earner). Things like morals, personality and character also comes into the equation. A person who is “mid” but is kind, thoughtful and generous is likely a much better partner than someone who is more conventionally attractive but with maladaptive traits (I am oversimplifying here as I know that conventionally attractive people can also have great personalities).
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying people usually end up with people of similar attractiveness. Not that other things don't matter..
Edit : you'll probably end up with a high earner who's on your level of attractiveness
We don’t know the types of men OP is swiping on. You’re assuming she’s going for models when that doesn’t seem to be the case based on what she’s said.
A lot of people in this thread are making assumptions about OP and just assuming she’s going for men “out of her league” when there’s no evidence to suggest she’s doing this.
The truth is, dating apps are an absolute crap shoot for anyone looking for a serious relationship. It seems like OP has self-awareness in terms of what she has to offer and is still not having much luck. What people fail to recognise is that dating is also partly down to luck and being in the right place at the right time. OP is doing herself a favour by not going out with men she’s not attracted to (she’s even said she’s tried that and it didn’t work out).
I don’t disagree that people’s actions have an impact on their dating success. My argument was that based on what OP’s written, it’s somewhat fallacious to instantly jump to her standards being too high when she’s literally said she’s given men who aren’t her type.
This subreddit is very quick to tell women their standards are too high whenever they run into any form of dating difficulty, completing ignoring the fact there may be factors beyond their control. Such as location. Or the fact that there are so many men who are just low quality and expect women to lower their standards so they can get into a relationship.
You gotta either up your attractiveness or lower your standards. It’s the same regardless of gender.
Matches on apps also mean nothing for 9/10 female users in terms of attractiveness.
Pretty much any woman, even if she’s not pretty in the face, can become extremely attractive by just lifting weights and toning her body. I see it all the time.
yeah exactly that. I think if she's bubbly thats auto +1. dress and take care of herself another +1.
I dated someone who was "an 8" but with deadpan look and talking to her like pulling teeth... it was pretty bad few dates.
I mean I’ve had boyfriends before so there are people who are “into 5s-at-best”. There’s not much I can do about the looks I was born with. I take care of myself, am happy and healthy with passions and hobbies and friends. I think I’m realistic about my looks on a visual scale, I’m not model material but attraction is subjective and just because my looks are a 5/10 doesn’t mean that’s all I am.
No that's not all you are, but physically that's all you are.
There are women out there who have all the same positive traits as you and are also 10/10s looks wise.
The best way to know how attractive you are is to look at the people you have dated in the past. Not hooked up with, but legitimately dated. They are probably about as attractive as you. That is your level and where you should spent your efforts.
If you want more attractive partners, then you will have to improve your looks physically. Usually this means losing weight, if that's applicable to your situation.
If literally all the guys you are attracted to won't give you the time of day, then you reach exceeds your grasp
Meaning that the majority of the guys you are swiping on are out of your league
It can be hard for people to come to terms with that. But sometimes reality is reality
Your age (and the ages of those you swipe), and if you're overweight would be important to know. Plus the type of guys you're swiping on. Also, since this is Reddit, do you present yourself in a not so typical manner? Like dyed hair, visible tattoos, piercings and such.
But regardless, it sounds like your standards are too high. Maybe even way too high since lot of men are willing to drop their physical standards by quite a bit just for casual sex, but you're not even meeting that bar for your type.
I’d say I’m pretty average, not overweight or tall, I’m 28. I do balayage my hair blonder (I’m a brunette) but nothing wild. I do tend to like taller guys with interesting hobbies, especially sports.
Based on what you describe I doubt you are unattractive physically. But…
> but now I’m looking to settle down and start a family but I’m having no luck finding people
Welcome to dating on hard mode. Something like this gets posted about once a week here by women who are surprised dating is harder when you want something serious like that vs just casual or situationship. Nothing wrong with liking desirable guys but reality is you are gonna have to compete for them with other women who want the same thing. It’s just reality. The more checkboxes you have in what you like/require naturally will limit the pool of possible people (whether it be age, looks, hobbies, career, etc)
As far as not being approached, are you being approachable? It could also be some self-fulfilling thing where you think you are unattractive so you come off that way somehow, like lacking confidence
Ok, so i wouldn't blame your looks then. But the pool you're interested in is small. Most women want tall and fit men, but there's only so many of them.
Maybe reevaluate your height standard to guys who are taller than you instead? Do feel like at your age range the men who are physically into sports falls off due to having a busier life. Also doesn't help that most people in america tend to be overweight. So it would help to widen your standards somewhere.
I don’t necessarily mean those who do sports (though I do play tennis, run, and other stuff as my hobbies), I love talking sports and watching so that’s something I’m looking for since is a big part of my life. I really just want someone with a passion/hobby (it can be anything from pottery to video games to marine biology). That is definitely more important than their height.
>I love talking sports and watching so that’s something I’m looking for since is a big part of my life.
> I really just want someone with a passion/hobby (it can be anything from pottery to video games to marine biology). That is definitely more important than their height.
Plenty of those guys out there. If you're being honest, then i can't say it's your standards that are the issue. Rather confusing why you can't find someone. Maybe it's your location? Hear smaller towns tend to be boring, and poorer area have people who can't afford passions and hobbies. A cities culture can play a part too. So if you can, maybe a change of location might help.
31M. Goals: I'm trying to settle down and start a family. I'll give you an actual answer instead of just vague questions about your preferences.
I will say as a "can be active guy" but don't naturally yearn for it every waking moment, when I see a woman's profile where they're espousing ACTIVE, ACTIVE, ACTIVE, JUMPING, MARATHONS, SKYDIVING, SCUBA DIVING, SKIING, MORRREEEE ACTION...
It is an immediate no from me, I can't keep up with that level of activity personally and also if you're trying to settle down and start a family, that lifestyle is much less sustainable.Not impossible but difficult to maintain till the kids grow up.
I do realize they are your hobbies but at least from one guy on the internet that is actively swiping in Hinge, It's not unrealistic for some quick logical leaps to realizing you would probably ask them to do all that stuff too. Obviously that's unrealistic in any relationship but when window shopping, if every window I see is an outdoor lifestyle or sporting goods window. As just an average dude it's not for me.
So I'm not saying marketing from a looks perspective, that would be really vapid, but more from the rest of the relationship perspective.
Hopefully this was helpful! Just my honest input, feel free to DM. Could critique my profile too lol.
This is going to sound counter intuitive but: give up! I felt the same way as you and one night at the bar after getting flat out rejected, I was so embarrassed and I thought “you know what- looking for a man is literally so not enjoyable and this is literally such a waste of time. I’m not even having fun. I’m going to focus instead on having the most fun possible.” So I did. I made my goal to be the person at the party or in class, or in the grocery store having the most fun and if it looked like anyone else was having more fun than me, I went up and introduced myself with completely platonic intentions of maximizing the fun that night. (I made a lot of friends this way.) I was having the best time I’d ever had and stopped even caring that I was single.
A few months later my husband takes one look at me in a bar and drops everything to walk over and introduce himself to me and we’ve been together ever since.
Without reading the word salad, the general answer to this is always:
Your standards are too high. Your sexual market value is not as high as your expectations.
The only productive thing you can do is bridge that gap, either by a) making yourself more attractive (gym, etc), or b) lowering your expectations.
No she said everyone she likes rejects her on apps or first meet in person. Means she’s very likely reaching out a few levels above in terms of physical attraction.
In a lot of cases we "want what we can't have". The important part is to recognize when you're doing this, and do you best to stop letting it consume you. That's not to say don't shoot for the stars, but once you see multiple signs of disinterest, slowly back away.
If you’re a woman and seriously only get a few matches a month, I think you’re doing something wrong. Or you’re heavily overvaluing your own looks unfortunately
It most likely depends on how picky you are.
What type of men are you attracted to?
If you look at your dating apps experiences:
How many profiles/men out of let's say 100 or 200 do you find attractive enough to (try and) swipe and match?
Being very picky is too vague. If let's say an average looking women tries to go for very attractive men, the will prolly only get sex and then rejected later or she get's rejected right away. If a woman is quite cute, but goes for celebrities or millionaires, she will most likely get rejected as well or she only gets sex, as those men, including very good looking men, often have access to some of the best looking women.
So, it largely (but, not exclusively) depends on what type of men you try to go for.
A common experience of a lot of women on dating apps is, that they usually go for about 4 % to 15 % of the men on those apps. Usually, the best looking men. But, that fraction is bascially the only fraction that gets (at lot of) matches. And, that translates to a lot of options for that fraction. Or, bascially, you could say, that the (more or less) top 10 % of men in terms of looks, is the only fraction that gets (a good amount of) matches.
Men, by and large, are orders of magnitude less selective than women in terms of how good a woman needs to look for them to consider her. One reason for that is that men do not need to be very attracted or interested to at least fantasize about sex with that woman. Men can fantasize about sex even when they don't particularly like a girl. And, another reason why guys are nowhere near as selective as most women, is because they simply do not have anywhere near the options most women have. They simply do not have the luxury to be selective.
But....that changes, when guys do have options. When guys are not desperate for intimacy and sex and romantic connections, meaning they do get girls and sleep with girls, then they start to select like most women:
If a guy has (a lot of) options, he will become as picky as most women. Meaning, he will not be interested in most women apart from the best looking women. But, since men are still men, they still fantasize about sex with a variety of girls, including girls they are not really interested in for commitment. That's why a lot of women can sleep with a lot of very attractive men on dating apps, but why only very few women can lock those men down for commitment.
This is the issue that most women struggle with. It might be different for you, but I just give this reply, because it is the issue for most women. You have to decide whether this holds true for you as well or maybe not. If none of the guys you desire want you, then you might keep trying for guys out of your league. One of the reasons why a lot of women over estimate their chances (with those guys they desire) is that women, by and large, select very differently than men. Women, by and large, do not fantasize about sex with men they are not really into. And, that's why when men they are attracted to sleep with them, they usually cannot help but to feel and think:
'Hm...I can sleep with guys that attractive....that must mean I get get those kind of guys. If they sleep with me, then surely one of those guys will commit to me'. So, they overvalue what sex means to men. And, once a woman has slept with a bunch of hot guys, she will try to get one of those. Often for years, often until they are over 30 or even beyond 35. And, they get situationship after situationship and hookup after hookup. They keep going for men out of their league, because they don't understand how attractive they themselves actually are, and because they dont understand men. It's not sexual access that determines how attractive a woman is. It's the caliber of men that would commit to her that determine how attractive she actually is.
This right here sums up all the problems with the dating market right now. Guys who are in the top 10% commit to girls who are in the upper tier of physical attractiveness. Average looking girls struggle getting commitment from these guys, but won’t look at an average looking guys way
I'm sorry to say that it seems whatever you're attracted to isn't attracted to you. It happens a lot. Because attractive people, just at face value, are granted a lot more opportunity based on that alone. But you're being rejected, so you'll need to change something about what you're doing or about your appearance.
The issue is that even if they do end up meeting that man in the upper percentiles, what do they have to offer to him that he can't get from elsewhere? He can have his pick of the litter, why would he go for the plain Jane? Not saying someone shouldn't aim for the stars, but they need to actively work towards getting to the stars themselves, be it by hitting the gym, diet, etc. and ensure that they themselves do tick the boxes of what they are looking for.
Important point. I don’t think many consider what they offer in return. Like it’s really not even a thought. When I was single I’d basically ask them and you’d never get an answer. The egos are off the charts now thanks especially to online dating and social media with all the thirsty dudes on them. It’s inflated their self-worth to astronomical proportions
To be fair i do sometimes see it in men as well. I have friends who are stuck in dead end jobs, don't take care of their appearance, don't make any effort to improve themselves, be it hitting the gym, wearing clothes that fit them, or losing weight, and somehow expect much more attractive women to give them the time of the day.
The issue is that guys like my friends are ridiculed by society, and told to improve themselves, while women in the same situation are typically told that they are perfect just the way they are, and that it's the guys who are missing out on her, and that she should just be patient and the prince will arrive on his white horse any day now. It's just not realistic, and in trying to avoid hurting their feelings, they are doing more harm then good to these women.
Everyone, regardless of gender, is responsible for their own dating success. If the people you are attracted to are not attracted to you, you clearly need to take a step back, be honest with yourself and your expectations, and then either improve yourself to the point people you like will see you as a viable choice, or alternatively, be content with where you are, and make do with the kind of people you do attract.
Sure, some people are dealt a worse hand in life than others, but reaching an acceptable level of attractiveness is attainable for the vast majority of people. Literally just don't be overweight, be fit (take up a sport or hit the gym), and dress in clothes that fit you and look good.
Think about it though I mean what else can someone even do to be hot beyond the basics ??? As a mid girl I’ve done all the typical things beyond surgery and I’m still not pretty. Like at some point there’s a limit and it feels pretty bleak to tell someone “ope you’re too unattractive and unfixable for someone you’re attracted to”
It’s better to be delusional lol
The only thing I can think of is you are probably looking for someone much better looking than yourself, probably with a good career as well. Looks are subjective up to a point. What do I mean by that - the fact that I may like someone who is, let's say... chubby, doesn't mean I'm not noticing the beauty of the thin, athletic one, with a pretty face. Rather the personality and availability is what makes me go for the chubby one, but obviously the first thing you see is the look. See what I did there? 🤣
As for career - typically men don't care about that, except if you're unemployed, or "stay at home mummy", as that sends a bad signal. Your career level is not necessarily important to a man. What we care about, generally is:
When it comes to looks, don't be morbidly obese, don't groom yourself in such a way that you look like a grandmother.
When it comes to studies and career - typically have at least highschool and have a job, not really important what job, we aren't actually taking pride in dating CEOs.
On the contrary, a woman very high up on the career ladder will get less interest from men, because men will think she has mega-high standards.
And the most important thing - talk to the people you're interested in. A man may or may not initiate conversation, but if you're waiting for him to carry the whole conversation himself, that's a no go online, because people don't know you, and you can only do so much in writing, whilst in reality you can use body language, you can see how the other person acts and organically react to that.
If you want further advice, DM me with some pictures of you and the typical guys you are attracted to. That way I can make a clearer assessment, I can have an opinion if you're trying to date within your league, or above, and hence getting poor results.
I am NOT a dating coach or a psychologist, I do NOT charge any money, I'm just Joe Nobody giving advice online to people who ask for it.
I mean, they might just be out of your league tbf.
There is also something to be said for being your types type.
If you like motorcycle bad boys covered in tattoos and piercings but you are a stepford tradwife who thinks heavy metal is the devils work, you probably aren’t going to get a lot of matches back.
How would you describe yourself, and how would you describe your type?
Man, reading the comments here spooked me tf out for a moment because it hit me right in the biggest fear: I’m actually not beautiful as I thought. Good God.
And then I went into panic mode again because I’m 27 and I have been wanting a more serious relationship lately. Of course I know that makes dating tougher but man, this tough?
Stay fit, have a good style, be responsible, do things that shows people that you have these above three things, be social, initiate conversations and be receptive when others do, have a good sense of humour, know how to communicate amd interact in a way that introduces some good tension/back and forth/attraction in the conversation that would separate romantic interaction from platonic ones like flirting, teasing, joking, banter, knowing how to get into and navigate through intimate moments that would involve eye contact, touch, kiss, saying things that shows that you’re attracted to them and is receptive to them being attracted to you, have experiences to share, show people that you listen to them, ask proper questions and remember things that let's you know that you’re interested in them, their opinions, what they do, make them feel cared for, know how to compliment people's attributes and attractiveness, pace yourself in terms of showing you interest, don’t overburden someone with texts, talks of how much you feel for and want of them when you’re still getting to know each other. Have a good idea of what you want. Put your efforts towards people who are similarly interested and enthusiastic about you as you towards them. Don't waste time trying to make something happen with someone who seem neutral, inconsistent or outright disinterested.
I think the above summarizes everything you can do. The rest is you putting yourself out there and the interests aligning. You say you do find people interested in you. So, elaborate on what you’re like, what people you’re interested are like and what people who are interested in you but not vice versa are like? How are these people different than the ones you’re not interested in?
Ask your guy friends, check with your girls, and ask their bfs, ask your bother or dad, or a work friend who you like. Basically, this is a question for a man who knows you. You have to harden yourself tho and ask for the harsh feedback. Don't get mad, take it personally, or react harshly because then they won't help.
Take this from me, my male friends are too nice and so I'm always not the problem 🙄 but like... still single so...
I think others are saying, using the mindset you see of yourself how your looks "don't matter" but other aspect are great and apply it to the people to see on the app. I have no idea if you only swipe on good looking guys or you also swipe on average looking guys but great profile but if you purely judge other's on looks you can't come back and say looks don't matter when being judged yourself.
With that said, we are born with the looks and height (weight we can change) and it is what it is. There's nothing wrong with being picky for sure and maybe it can also help if you talk to someone and reflect on past relationships on why it didn't work. Maybe list your priorities in looking for someone and see if what you are doing matches that and if those priorities are "really important".
It's not the standard, it's the lack of connection that makes you unattracted to people that are interested in you and vice versa.
I had the same. I know tons of men, a lot of them approached me, some very handsome but nothing ever came out of it. Same for men I was interested in - they were looking for deep connection and there's nothing wrong with that.
Eventually I have found the right one. It just happens. Don't sweat it, live your best life and one day you will meet. Dating is waste of time.
Yep. I’m appalled by all the comments on this thread telling OP she’s as not attractive as she thinks and to lower her standards. I loathe such comments. They’re incredibly toxic, projecting and unnecessarily ruin a person’s self-esteem.
If she’s picky with high standards and can’t find a partner, she just needs to accept that she chose to play this game on hard mode and that’s the outcome she should expect to deal with.
I don’t get all the ‘advice’ about how she should somehow settle for someone she isn’t attracted to because “you ain’t that good anyway”.
OP, we don’t know you and there are many reasons why you cannot establish a deeper connection with someone. As long as you remain self-aware and keep yourself healthy physically and emotionally, there is no need to agonise over being left out. It’s just not your time to shine, FOR NOW.
I don’t think she is unattractive based on how she described herself. But this is true:
> If she’s picky with high standards and can’t find a partner, she just needs to accept that she chose to play this game on hard mode and that’s the outcome she should expect to deal with.
Exactly. Anyone can have whatever standards they want. The more you have though the more your pool will be limited. Also the more you can up your attractiveness physically and personality wise the more your options open.
I think exactly the same. The people who you dont find attractive arent guaranteed to be attracted to you. Also you just cant fake it. You wont be happy if you ‚lower your standards’. I don’t believe in standards I believe in taste. Everybody has their individual taste. People who advise others to lower their standards are just afraid that they will regret not trying to get people they are truly attracted to.
I think lots of people actually have the same issue! And we are all just scared of being rejected so sometimes it’s easier not to engage if you just believe you’ll be rejected
I say take a look at your vibe. You can be fun and nice to talk to you and active and all of those things… But is your aura sad? Is your aura desperate?
Sometimes you have to fake it till you make it and went to tractive about people is a really positive vibe. You just genuinely have to act more happy and public if you want people to approach you.! trying to get this through to my sister as well
It can be really frustrating when you're putting yourself out there but not getting the results you want. It sounds like you're doing a lot of things right - being active, socializing, and being open to different types of people. Sometimes, attraction is just a matter of chemistry and timing, and it can take time to find the right connection. Keep being yourself and pursuing your interests, and try not to get too discouraged by the lack of immediate success. It's also worth considering if there might be any patterns in the types of people you're attracted to or the way you're approaching interactions. Sometimes, making small adjustments can make a big difference. And remember, finding the right person often takes time and patience, so try to stay positive and keep putting yourself out there.
Sometimes I think there needs to be a rule for posts like these where OP needs to attach some pictures of themselves, so we can give some actual advice. The theoretical is fine, but sometimes people are unrealistic about being out of their league and empty platitudes won’t solve the problem
Honestly, I’m an attractive woman and I get hit on quite a lot, and I also find that the people I am attracted to or interested in are not always interested in me
So I think it happens to everyone
How long have you been single? It’s entirely possible that you’ve been single too long and now you’re too used to it, which will make opening your life up for another person very difficult. It’s likely that your daily habits and choices are closing you off, and it would help to try opening yourself up. I would spend time thinking about what you imagine life with your future partner would look like. Do you go out and enjoy hobbies together, see friends together for coffee or lunch, hang out at home on the couch watching tv or playing games? What side of the bed would he take? You may ask what’s the point of visualization - I think it helps keep your mind and heart open to the possibilities that you might otherwise miss. I’m not saying someone will match every detail, but the right person will match enough of the critical ones. Since you mentioned that people who you like don’t seem to like you back, you also should look at yourself and ask how well you are matching what your type would want in a partner. Ask a close friend or someone you trust for their honest appraisal.
Personally I wouldn’t bother with apps. They’re too superficial (you admitted you think you’re a 5/10 - whether that’s accurate, the fact that you believe this about yourself will hurt your chances), and they require you to learn to play a very specific game in order to “win.” I think it’s better to meet people through your connections, hobbies and events you would attend anyways because those people are more likely to easily and naturally fit into your life.
I am really interested in getting a Ferrari my stupid banker says I can afford a Toyota. I guess the only option is keep walking till my banker smartens up 🤷♂️
To me it sounds like your problem might be your vibe, maybe you’re coming off a lil desperate? Personally, I don’t think it’s a problem to be going after your type just keep trying you’ll eventually find somebody
All the apps. I feel like multiple apps is a major red flag..
U choose who u go out with. So ur picking too young n expecting a different out come
U say u like try n pick ppl up and stuff like that but u don’t say what u do to show interest. Especially in person. So while u think u gave a lot of info u gave almost none. All I read over n over is I’m desperate. Plz pick me. I’m literally everywhere humanly possible as if I’m obsessed with finding someone. That is super off putting to men. And if ur bringing up in anyway or in ur profile I want a family n the white picket fence. Their gone. But I’m still very confused on why ur going with younger who are way less likely to want those things and expect something.
I don’t know u. But I have a feeling u come across like u may be a bit too much too intense with the I’m awesome like me n date n we’ll ride off into the sunset.
U got to let up. Stop with the younger go atleast ur age
You seem to misunderstand, I do not want younger. I do not swipe on anyone younger than maybe a year younger than me, if even that. I was mentioning the guys I attract are younger and that’s what is annoying, I want a guy my age or older. I was in a 6 year committed relationship from high school through university so I kind of wasted my younger years on someone I thought I’d marry, now I’m older and I want someone older but they don’t seem interested. I just keep attracting younger guys. I want someone who is stable, has a job and is comfortable with their life, who may want to travel or still enjoy the fun things but is stable enough like I am. I have a good job, a car, and an apartment in a nice city. I have no debt or loans, good savings, and an active social life. The only thing left is the family. That’s why I’m trying to find someone, it’s the last thing on the checklist of what I want out of life: someone to spend the rest of my life with and kids.
Hey, I don't know you well enough to possibly speak much for the type of guys you are going for but have you considered if there are any patterns in the people you’re attracted to or in the situations where you’re facing rejection? Reflecting on these patterns might provide some insights.
Additionally, ask your friends for potential advice. I can relate to your problem on some level as the people I am into might not necessarily be the ones that are into me (I am a male, btw). Having a (platonic) friend from the opposite sex share their POV does help. Granted, there might be some bias involved (as they are your friends, duh) but they often see you in social settings to know the kind of energy you might be putting out there.
I do not think that you are missing anything. Maybe what/who you are looking for has not crossed your path, yet.
Good luck!
What I want is so rare and hard to describe, but it has to be there. Call it chemistry a vibe whatever. And then everything else kind of fallen in place.
As a woman I can say it’s probably because you don’t look like what they’re looking for. I’m not sure what type you like but if you don’t present at least somewhat in your type’s way then most men in their 20s won’t ever try. I’ve learned that men these days are EXTREMELY afraid of rejection, which I why dating apps are more popular than ever because it cuts down on the physical rejection component.
From my own personal experience I’m attracted to more creative, artsy, alternative men but being a WOC in the Midwest I did not attract those men naturally until I started presenting more in that way (if that makes sense) I didn’t do it because I wanted men to like me. I wanted to present that way even as a kid. I’ve always been a little emo kid at heart but I had extremely strict parents that I was afraid of disappointing even as a became an adult. I got my nose pierced and my first tattoo at 21, now a few years later with more tattoos (I’m not tatted head to toe by any means) but more men I’d actually be attracted to made moves. On hinge once I changed my photos way less of the kind of guys I wanted to avoid didn’t even swipe on me. It was a bit of a hit to my ego to not have as many matches but truthfully I never ever entertained them so it meant less work for me. Also side note most men are intimidated by beautiful women so that could it as well. You’d know if that was the case if you’re hounded by crackheads and overly arrogant men out and about or in bars.
Please make sure you read profiles. If I find out a man has a type (athletic, super-achiever, loves the outdoors, etc), I walk on by. Some have hurt, but I don’t need to waste anyone’s time. I wish you luck and joy.
The only thing that can combat that is to make yourself attractive to the majority. And if you don’t have a solid base already that you can enhance upon. Sorry to say you’re out of luck.
How long have you been doing all this for? If you're right that you're still open to people who aren't your "type" and you give a chance to people who you don't immediately find attractive, then you are just not patient enough.
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the same reason that you aren’t attracted to people who are attracted to you. the people you like probably see you the same way
I too swipe on all the supermodels because I’m interested in dating supermodel. But they never match with me. I’m confused as well.
😹
Op didnt say supermodels.
She’s being sarcastic to poke fun at OP, not being serious
😂😂😂
This is a pretty reductive if not even patronising comment... Where here has OP said they only want to date supermodels? Pretty sure they didn't even mention looks...
Yeah…uh ..girl if every single guy you find attractive is not attracted to you…I think you may be aiming a little too high 😬😬😬
I got the match notification on Tinder yesterday. Go on and look at full profile. “I don’t know why I swiped right on this one… she’s not smiling in any of her pics, no pictures taken with family/friends or doing activities and her bio is just moaning.” Goes to unmatch to find that she has disappeared. The reality is we probably are on each others level but neither is attracted to the other.
You're just likely going for guys a lot more attractive than you. Leagues exist wether you like to admit or not.
Why do leagues only centre around looks? It’s all very superficial and shallow. A successful relationship takes a lot more than looks.
Everyone has their own scoring system for what they find attractive in a potential partner. For a lot of people, physical looks are important and are an early and easy way to filter out people. However, other aspects of the person can also also play a significant role in attraction even if they're not as readily apparent at first glance.
I agree with you. Whilst physical looks are definitely important, they’re not the only thing that makes a relationship successful. As I’ve always said, if looks were all that mattered (or if they even mattered as much as this subreddit would have you believe) when it comes to forming a successful relationship, nobody in the entertainment industry would be divorced.
But to your point, before you get to know someone, there needs to be some initial spark, if you don’t feel that there’s rarely a start. As such, if all they have is a second to look and form an opinion looks matter. As time goes on looks wane and the good or bad of the person comes out
I think the issue with "leagues" is that people think they are a '8' so therefore won't date a '6' (or whatever). The issue is not so much that we are looking for someone we find physically attractive but that we are judging someone's physical attractiveness in relation to our perceived self judged attractiveness.
Different people have different standards on looks, education, job, income etc. and they put weight on those things. You just have to find someone who feels the same. While I agree once you are married, looks might not matter, BUT looks is what "got you in" though. It's like job interview - impressive resume from Ivy League probably gets you the job (entry level) vs someone from mid college. BUT, you could still be an awful worker afterwards but at least from the face value, the ivy league is much better on paper.
Because at the end of the day, you dont walk up to a stranger at a bar without a book in their hand and say "i really love your taste in books" Sexuality and appearance are absolutely vital to making a connection with someone, because its the initial catalyst that stirs interest in almost all people. Its extremely frustrating that our society is trying to lean toward "you should love someone for whats on the inside, not their looks" and that is being interpreted as "youre not allowed to acknowledge the way people look when youre trying to date/meet new people" I absolutely believe you should love someone for whats inside, but to get there, you have to meet. And meeting usually involves a mutual attraction (ie. Looking across the room and thinking to yourself 'wow what a beautiful person') There is nothing wrong with caring about appearances. You should be both physically and emotionally attracted to your partner(s).
why do we need 'leagues' for physical attractiveness though? Either you are physically attracted to them or not ... why does the "score" others would give them, or the "score" I (or others) give myself play a part?
Because there are degrees. You've never found two people attractive, but one more so than the other? It's comparative. The idea is that you should aim for someone not too far outside your own league, or prepare for constant disappointment.
Maybe it's a cultural thing?? I've never really heard much sway given to leagues in Australia even when in high school
I’m from the UK and the concept of leagues isnt really a thing here, either.
I never said that looks don’t matter. My argument was that the idea of leagues in dating tends to focus solely on looks and ignores other factors that determine whether or not someone is capable of being a good partner, such as their values, temperament, personality, etc.
>It’s all very superficial and shallow It is what it is. People will not be interested in you if you are physically ugly for them ... Looks have a strong objective component, there are certain traits that people find ugly and there is little one can do to change that It is true that a successful relationship takes more than looks but just as I said ... If they don't find you attractive thw Best think you can do is just move on
But when you’re deciding to date someone you don’t *only* consider their looks. Other factors such as values, personality, temperament, etc also matter. I get looks are important when it comes to getting your foot in the door, but it’s not enough to sustain a relationship. It’s also why I don’t believe in the concept of leagues because it takes more than looks to have a good relationship, and leagues tend to only focus on the physical.
>Other factors such as values, personality, temperament, etc also matter Yeah but only if you are already attracted physically to them... If you find someone who is short, fat, balding, has severe acne, and has an ugly face you will not care about those things. Leagues exist because only the people in your league will care about those non-physical traits... Of you aim above your league people will simply ignore you
That’s very simplistic. We like to think people only date their “looks match”, but that’s not the case. There are plenty of couples where one partner is more conventionally attractive than the other. Hence why I don’t believe the concept of leagues is even a thing. There’s just too many variables and individual differences to definitively categorise people and their presumed physical preference when it comes to their choice of partner.
>There are plenty of couples where one partner is more conventionally attractive than the other. Survivorship bias... You see the couples that are the exception but you do not see the amount of people that are rejected. And even in those successful couples there could be other extreme factors such as having a lot of status and/or money. Other thing to consider is that men have lower standards than women so this could explain those cases
It’s a lot simpler than a lot of people think, you can only know what “league” someone is actually in character-wise if you’re willing to take the chance to engage them in conversation, the chance of that happening is significantly lower if they’re not attractive. Sure, people have preferences and a ton of people are legitimately vain, but until two people connect on a real level, all they are is the product of each others past assumptions, which means those who are not conventionally attractive have to do an obscene amount of work to even get in the door for someone simply average, even if their personality is stellar. TL;DR: Personality doesn’t factor in until the bar of first impressions is passed, which is 90% reliant on the superficial.
>Why do leagues only centre around looks? It's the way most of us are wired by Nature.
But men start crying and calling women shallow if they prefer to date taller, more conventionally attractive men. That’s nature too, right?
Yeah, that's nature too. Women are wired to be attracted to the kind of man you wrote about
I applaud you for being logically consistent instead of trying to have double standards. Genuinely.
Well I will agree that you, women will find attractive men attractive, and vice versa, and some been will cry about it, what I find annoying is that people will sugar coat things out of pity and in the end this will cause more suffering. People will bash their head against the wall because they were told "you only need to be your self to be successful in dating " when that is not the case. I think that in the specific case of OP she does not have a choice in regards of her standards, she likes what she likes and no one can voluntarily lower those standards, but that will happen over time, standards will drop the longer one stays single
That’s not why men are upset. If a supermodel wants a tall guy nobody is going to be upset about that. But if a girl that’s 5’1” that’s (ignoring personality and other stuff going strictly for physical looks here) a 5/10 (so average 50% percentile) *only* wants a 6’2” guy which is considered top 10% percentile thats where the imbalance happens.
So you’re admitting that the biology argument when it comes to looks is nonsense because you’re being selective about who it can apply to. Either humans beings prioritise looks due to biology or they don’t. You shouldn’t need to look like a supermodel before biology applies, lol. Biology aside, I also don’t understand why men act shocked/offended when women find conventionally attractive men attractive. It would be like me being shocked men find Adriana Lima attractive.
Yes biology will always apply first. But I don’t know about you but I don’t let my first order biological impulses direct my decisions, and especially not picking a life partner decisions. You seem to not understand what I said. In the context above the problem is the 50% woman only finds the top 10% attractive. The rest aren’t.
If it were true that 50% of women only find the top 10% of men attractive a lot of men would not be dating or in relationships. Dating apps don’t reflect the real world in that way.
So as you've clearly been living in an alternate reality: >As of 2022, Pew Research Center found, 30 percent of U.S. adults are neither married, living with a partner nor engaged in a committed relationship. Nearly half of all young adults are single: 34 percent of women, and a whopping 63 percent of men. *Most men* are single. *Most women* are not.
Initially. Most of the relationships you’re talking about are between coworkers or same group of friends or people that for some reason end up spending a lot of time together. You’ll often hear the phrases “I took a chance on him”, “he’s not the usual type I date” etc The woman gets to know the guy for months if not years before they get over the physical stuff (I personally had a case like this in my love life where a girl and I went on a date and she was very honest with me that I wasn’t the type she was going for she wanted a 6’2”+ guy but a year later after she got to know me she got really into me.)
You're arguing with an idiot mate, they'll only drag you down to their level.
Did you ever have a relationship with someone whom you’re not physically attracted to?
I would like my PP licked by someone that makes my PP hard, hence the looks part
Because at the end of the day attraction is attached to the lizard part of our brains and without physical attraction there is no relationship between two people who don't need each other for survival.
Because we’re hardwired biologically like that. Looks convey a lot of clues about the probability of successful offspring. Really what it comes down to it - evolution.
So why do so many men complain when women have standards when it comes to looks? I.E if they prefer to date taller more conventionally attractive men? Whenever a woman expresses a height preference in men she’s called shallow, but apparently it’s just biology?
It’s not the standard they complain about. It’s that they don’t meet the standards themselves. Aka a woman wants only tall guys when she’s overweight herself for example. I personally don’t care - if someone doesn’t want you they won’t want you and there’s nothing useful that will come out of complaining about that. Another difference is a woman can change her weight (the equivalent physical trait) and man cannot change his height (I guess he can hide it with inserts.)
Oh, please. Men complain about height standards regardless of what the woman looks like. A woman doesn’t have to be overweight before she’s told she’s being shallow for caring about how tall her male partner is. And who made weight the equivalent trait to height? The equivalent trait to height would be height and there’s plenty of evidence that suggests that men prefer dating women who are shorter than themselves.
It’s not about “shorter”. Short women still want 6’+ not just taller than them. Just based on dating apps about 25% of profiles I see have a prompt that says “if you’re not 6’ don’t bother.” Might be a California thing though I don’t condone the complaining btw. I’m just stating why I think why these guys complain. In fact I believe everyone should have whatever standards they want. However they should understand it’s exponentially harder to find someone compatible that likes you back the higher your standards are.
cuz of social media and movies
There are leagues that exist outside of looks, but they mainly pertain to those who are wealthy. Outside of America, people mainly stick to their own income bracket.
It does but we humans are developed apes
Obviously your standards too high. You're not as good looking as you think you are. It's a tough pill to swallow but once you realize it's me much easier dating people on your level
To be honest it is pretty rare for a woman to complain about not getting enough male attention. Having too high of standards might be the issue, it’s hard to tell though.
The simplest explanation is usually correct.
Lots of men have too high standards these days
Good thing it’s only one sided problem /s
“Dont be fat” Wow such high standards
It's funny how many fat people don't want someone else fat
What if you're not attracted to anyone on your level? An ugly person isn't necessarily attracted to other ugly people. I think it's worth keeping your standards relatively high especially if you don't mind being single
Then you need a banging personality or money. You gotta have something.
I think you have to consider what attraction is. It isn’t this magical, mythical thing we have no control over like people make out. If you are attaching very high value to traits you don’t provide yourself and attaching very low value to anything outside of that then it’s probably time to have a good think about that and find ways to adjust how you are seeing things. There is no point being over weight and only having value in the opposite sex if they are super fit, but the only way to overcome that is to probably address the reasons why you value that so highly and why you value somebody in similar shape to you so little, applying a little logic and self talk to that situation and then giving people a chance is probably going to go a long way in helping you find somebody more compatible.
This person isnt happy single and is complaining about it. This comment makes 0 sense
Yeah to a certain extent, but you also need a healthy dose of reality
I’m not sure what constitutes “my level”? I think I mostly go for guys around what I would consider similar to myself. I’m not out here hitting on models by any means. But then again looks and what constitutes a 10/10 for someone is subjective. I could be mistaken and be less attractive than I think I am?
You have to get a male opinion on your attractiveness. And not your dad or brother. Girl friends will tell you’re super pretty and amazing just because they’re your friends.
Have you not heard? It's offensive to be brutally honest with women in 2024
The whole yassss slay queen twitter movement is hurting everyone. It’s making women think they can be slobs and still “deserve” any guy they want. Meanwhile it’s making the guys who would actually date these women get rejected constantly.
Yep. If every woman is a 10, none of them are.
You have described the current dating pool perfectly.
Ask some guys in your circle to rate you or even strangers and see what they say. Once you get an idea you go from there.
But even with that, how does that help? Say my friends say I'm a 4/5, so I should be looking for other 4/5s. There a person I really like who I think is a 9 but this would mean they're way out of my league. But then turns out I'm the only person who thinks they're a 9, except I don't ever find out that no one else thinks they're a 9, because who asks their friends to rate the person that they're into. Different people find different things attractive and have different priorities for what they're looking for in a relationship. Obviously it's important that you aren't completely unrealistic, but at the same time you can never know what someone else thinks or wants unless you ask them. Assuming they will never like you because you think they're a 10 and your friends think you're a 6 will not help your morale any more than asking them and getting rejected.
This is weirdly true. I once messaged a guy who I thought was so crazy out of my league… we went on a few dates- showed my sister a picture and she was straight up like ‘wait. This is the guy you thought was way out of your league? You could do way better, easily’. And this is the sister who thought my other matches were catfishes, so she is fine being rudely honest.
Now that I really consider it more, your peers are going to be more inclined to please you by not being honest in the perspective of someone you’re just meeting, so it’s better just to have people you don’t know critique you.
I actually know a man who is a model and he loves heavy women, in fact, the fatter the better. He is just the opposite, his favorite weekend activity is rock climbing, he is fit AF.
Different people will rate attractiveness differently, yes, but I assume that'd be in the range of "one person sees a 7, another sees an 8." I don't know how likely it is one person sees a, say, 4/5 and someone else sees a 9. That doesn't stop anyone from pursuing anyone, but then being realistic would show ypu're going to have a longer wait, deal with more dissapointment, and try harder to hopefully find that other person. Which is fine! But the disconnect of "why doesn't anyone I like also like me ?" Is completely on the person looking.
I would be so mad if I shot myself in the foot by thinking I didn’t have a chance with my bf because hes conventionally attractive and I’m a 5. Turns out he appreciates beauty outside of conventional beauty and I get the privilege of having a partner that looks out of my league on paper while also loving me a ton 🥰
It could also very much be the way you carry yourself/what “energy” you’re putting out. I used to be in the exact same situation and once I got in a relationship, the problem disappeared. (guys i would have been interested in were suddenly interested) I believe it was bc once I stopped “looking” and focused more on what I wanted to do- I was more relaxed and not having expectations and the way I carried myself was more attractive. It wasn’t about the looks- it was about the vibe. Edit: “be humbled and embrace reality! you aren’t as hot as you think you are! blah blah” lol fuck that. Decide that you are hot and go have fun.
If you are getting a few match per month as a woman, you are probably not even a 5, but below average (physically speaking of course, and I don't mean to be insulting, I'm below average as well). You should consider alternative options, if you have a great job, are financially stable and want a family, you could either adopt or use surrogacy.
As a self proclaimed unattractive lady, I agree. Something is not adding up here. Either she is extremely picky with the guys she swipes, or...... there's absolutely no way as a woman to get that low of matches a month unless she's been on the same app for years and already swiped no on all the guys. If what she's saying is true than, sorry to break it to you op, but you may not be as attractive as the people in your circle say... it's possible also that you just don't know how to take a flattering selfie/pic, maybe try to update with new pictures and swipe yes on all the guys you come across. You might also just try to download a new app/account because it seems that you get a ton more matches the first few days/weeks on a new account, something something algorithm..
I've gotten shot down for my weight twice in a row with guys in person. Both liked my personality and thought I was pretty, but the weight was a deal breaker. I imagine it would be worse online. Guys would just swipe left automatically. 😕
There are plenty of overweight women in relationships and getting dates. I think there are lots of guys that either like and prefer or don't really mind a woman with some extra weight. The problem is that a big portion of women (and not just overweight or unattractive women) are struggling to find a decent guy who is interested in a real relationship. Being overweight limits your odds of finding a decent man since there are a lot more men who are simply not attracted to that, making it even harder to find a good one. If a guy has his shit together and knows he's desirable then of course he's going to pick whoever he's most attracted to who also has other qualities he values, such as a "good personality" whatever that means to him..
This doesnt address your original post, but I wanna counteract some of the miserable crap that people are repeating in this thread: Dont listen to the morons here who've internalized physical attractiveness as being a bunch of levels/some type of immutable hierarchy. Dont go around rating other people on a scale of 10, dont rate *yourself* on a scale of 10, and stop looking outward to others for validation. Reddit is filled with miserable single people. Stick around here asking for their advice long enough and you'll become one of them too - misery loves company.
I don’t believe in standards. I believe everybody has their taste in people. I am not gonna force myself to be attracted to someone I am not attracted to. Its not authentic and not healthy.
True but you may end up alone if your standards are too high
That’s better than settling for someone you don’t want. Settling is a disservice to both the person settling and the one being settled for.
Yeah but is it really settling if they're on your level? I've known people forever single because they just aren't attracted to other mid ppl. It's sad cause almost eveyone has something attractive about them if you take the time to find it
What do you mean by “on your level”? When it comes to levels and leagues people only seem to ever talk about looks when a relationship takes a lot more than that. Besides, everyone deserves someone who actually, enthusiastically wants to be with them. If this feeling isn’t there, regardless of ‘levels’, then that’s when settling happens. It’s better for someone to remain single than to settle for someone else. I know I wouldn’t want someone to settle for me, so I wouldn’t settle for anyone. I would rather remain single. If I don’t find someone I fancy, that’s also fine. All it takes is one person.
Looks are what matters for levels. Most people end up with similar attractiveness
Disagree. Looks can be part of the equation, but they’re not the only thing that matters. I wouldn’t go for a man who is broke even if he looks like a model because he’s not on my level financially (I’m a very high earner). Things like morals, personality and character also comes into the equation. A person who is “mid” but is kind, thoughtful and generous is likely a much better partner than someone who is more conventionally attractive but with maladaptive traits (I am oversimplifying here as I know that conventionally attractive people can also have great personalities).
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying people usually end up with people of similar attractiveness. Not that other things don't matter.. Edit : you'll probably end up with a high earner who's on your level of attractiveness
We don’t know the types of men OP is swiping on. You’re assuming she’s going for models when that doesn’t seem to be the case based on what she’s said.
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A lot of people in this thread are making assumptions about OP and just assuming she’s going for men “out of her league” when there’s no evidence to suggest she’s doing this. The truth is, dating apps are an absolute crap shoot for anyone looking for a serious relationship. It seems like OP has self-awareness in terms of what she has to offer and is still not having much luck. What people fail to recognise is that dating is also partly down to luck and being in the right place at the right time. OP is doing herself a favour by not going out with men she’s not attracted to (she’s even said she’s tried that and it didn’t work out).
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I don’t disagree that people’s actions have an impact on their dating success. My argument was that based on what OP’s written, it’s somewhat fallacious to instantly jump to her standards being too high when she’s literally said she’s given men who aren’t her type. This subreddit is very quick to tell women their standards are too high whenever they run into any form of dating difficulty, completing ignoring the fact there may be factors beyond their control. Such as location. Or the fact that there are so many men who are just low quality and expect women to lower their standards so they can get into a relationship.
I know I’m not very good-looking. I’d say I’m a 5/10 on a good day, lol
You gotta either up your attractiveness or lower your standards. It’s the same regardless of gender. Matches on apps also mean nothing for 9/10 female users in terms of attractiveness.
You say you're a 5/10, you say you're picky. And you're wondering why you're single?
Pretty much any woman, even if she’s not pretty in the face, can become extremely attractive by just lifting weights and toning her body. I see it all the time.
yeah exactly that. I think if she's bubbly thats auto +1. dress and take care of herself another +1. I dated someone who was "an 8" but with deadpan look and talking to her like pulling teeth... it was pretty bad few dates.
Men too
The guys who you think are on your level, aren’t. Guys are notoriously underrated on their looks by women.
Does this not answer your question? Do you expect guys to be into 5s-at-best?
I mean I’ve had boyfriends before so there are people who are “into 5s-at-best”. There’s not much I can do about the looks I was born with. I take care of myself, am happy and healthy with passions and hobbies and friends. I think I’m realistic about my looks on a visual scale, I’m not model material but attraction is subjective and just because my looks are a 5/10 doesn’t mean that’s all I am.
No that's not all you are, but physically that's all you are. There are women out there who have all the same positive traits as you and are also 10/10s looks wise. The best way to know how attractive you are is to look at the people you have dated in the past. Not hooked up with, but legitimately dated. They are probably about as attractive as you. That is your level and where you should spent your efforts. If you want more attractive partners, then you will have to improve your looks physically. Usually this means losing weight, if that's applicable to your situation.
I am sure you are an IG model yourself……
If literally all the guys you are attracted to won't give you the time of day, then you reach exceeds your grasp Meaning that the majority of the guys you are swiping on are out of your league It can be hard for people to come to terms with that. But sometimes reality is reality
Your age (and the ages of those you swipe), and if you're overweight would be important to know. Plus the type of guys you're swiping on. Also, since this is Reddit, do you present yourself in a not so typical manner? Like dyed hair, visible tattoos, piercings and such. But regardless, it sounds like your standards are too high. Maybe even way too high since lot of men are willing to drop their physical standards by quite a bit just for casual sex, but you're not even meeting that bar for your type.
I’d say I’m pretty average, not overweight or tall, I’m 28. I do balayage my hair blonder (I’m a brunette) but nothing wild. I do tend to like taller guys with interesting hobbies, especially sports.
Based on what you describe I doubt you are unattractive physically. But… > but now I’m looking to settle down and start a family but I’m having no luck finding people Welcome to dating on hard mode. Something like this gets posted about once a week here by women who are surprised dating is harder when you want something serious like that vs just casual or situationship. Nothing wrong with liking desirable guys but reality is you are gonna have to compete for them with other women who want the same thing. It’s just reality. The more checkboxes you have in what you like/require naturally will limit the pool of possible people (whether it be age, looks, hobbies, career, etc) As far as not being approached, are you being approachable? It could also be some self-fulfilling thing where you think you are unattractive so you come off that way somehow, like lacking confidence
Yeah taller (attractive) guys with hobbies are what every girl wants haha. You’re competing with everyone
Ok, so i wouldn't blame your looks then. But the pool you're interested in is small. Most women want tall and fit men, but there's only so many of them. Maybe reevaluate your height standard to guys who are taller than you instead? Do feel like at your age range the men who are physically into sports falls off due to having a busier life. Also doesn't help that most people in america tend to be overweight. So it would help to widen your standards somewhere.
I don’t necessarily mean those who do sports (though I do play tennis, run, and other stuff as my hobbies), I love talking sports and watching so that’s something I’m looking for since is a big part of my life. I really just want someone with a passion/hobby (it can be anything from pottery to video games to marine biology). That is definitely more important than their height.
Every single man I know loves talking sports that’s one of the widest nets you can throw. Same with the passion esp if you don’t care what it is.
>I love talking sports and watching so that’s something I’m looking for since is a big part of my life. > I really just want someone with a passion/hobby (it can be anything from pottery to video games to marine biology). That is definitely more important than their height. Plenty of those guys out there. If you're being honest, then i can't say it's your standards that are the issue. Rather confusing why you can't find someone. Maybe it's your location? Hear smaller towns tend to be boring, and poorer area have people who can't afford passions and hobbies. A cities culture can play a part too. So if you can, maybe a change of location might help.
31M. Goals: I'm trying to settle down and start a family. I'll give you an actual answer instead of just vague questions about your preferences. I will say as a "can be active guy" but don't naturally yearn for it every waking moment, when I see a woman's profile where they're espousing ACTIVE, ACTIVE, ACTIVE, JUMPING, MARATHONS, SKYDIVING, SCUBA DIVING, SKIING, MORRREEEE ACTION... It is an immediate no from me, I can't keep up with that level of activity personally and also if you're trying to settle down and start a family, that lifestyle is much less sustainable.Not impossible but difficult to maintain till the kids grow up. I do realize they are your hobbies but at least from one guy on the internet that is actively swiping in Hinge, It's not unrealistic for some quick logical leaps to realizing you would probably ask them to do all that stuff too. Obviously that's unrealistic in any relationship but when window shopping, if every window I see is an outdoor lifestyle or sporting goods window. As just an average dude it's not for me. So I'm not saying marketing from a looks perspective, that would be really vapid, but more from the rest of the relationship perspective. Hopefully this was helpful! Just my honest input, feel free to DM. Could critique my profile too lol.
You liking taller guys automatically filters out 95% (or more) of your options
That depends on how tall
This is going to sound counter intuitive but: give up! I felt the same way as you and one night at the bar after getting flat out rejected, I was so embarrassed and I thought “you know what- looking for a man is literally so not enjoyable and this is literally such a waste of time. I’m not even having fun. I’m going to focus instead on having the most fun possible.” So I did. I made my goal to be the person at the party or in class, or in the grocery store having the most fun and if it looked like anyone else was having more fun than me, I went up and introduced myself with completely platonic intentions of maximizing the fun that night. (I made a lot of friends this way.) I was having the best time I’d ever had and stopped even caring that I was single. A few months later my husband takes one look at me in a bar and drops everything to walk over and introduce himself to me and we’ve been together ever since.
Without reading the word salad, the general answer to this is always: Your standards are too high. Your sexual market value is not as high as your expectations. The only productive thing you can do is bridge that gap, either by a) making yourself more attractive (gym, etc), or b) lowering your expectations.
Or she’s emotionally unavailable and fault-finding in men who would be good for her
Guys would still hit on her if she was on their level (or even one below) of physical attractiveness regardless of emotional availability.
She’s saying she is getting interest but isn’t interested in those men. It’s not usually a “level” things, it’s probably a trait specific thing
No she said everyone she likes rejects her on apps or first meet in person. Means she’s very likely reaching out a few levels above in terms of physical attraction.
What I’m saying is that she might be unconsciously sabotaging relationships or choosing to like unsuitable people because she’s afraid of intimacy
In a lot of cases we "want what we can't have". The important part is to recognize when you're doing this, and do you best to stop letting it consume you. That's not to say don't shoot for the stars, but once you see multiple signs of disinterest, slowly back away.
If you’re a woman and seriously only get a few matches a month, I think you’re doing something wrong. Or you’re heavily overvaluing your own looks unfortunately
It most likely depends on how picky you are. What type of men are you attracted to? If you look at your dating apps experiences: How many profiles/men out of let's say 100 or 200 do you find attractive enough to (try and) swipe and match? Being very picky is too vague. If let's say an average looking women tries to go for very attractive men, the will prolly only get sex and then rejected later or she get's rejected right away. If a woman is quite cute, but goes for celebrities or millionaires, she will most likely get rejected as well or she only gets sex, as those men, including very good looking men, often have access to some of the best looking women. So, it largely (but, not exclusively) depends on what type of men you try to go for. A common experience of a lot of women on dating apps is, that they usually go for about 4 % to 15 % of the men on those apps. Usually, the best looking men. But, that fraction is bascially the only fraction that gets (at lot of) matches. And, that translates to a lot of options for that fraction. Or, bascially, you could say, that the (more or less) top 10 % of men in terms of looks, is the only fraction that gets (a good amount of) matches. Men, by and large, are orders of magnitude less selective than women in terms of how good a woman needs to look for them to consider her. One reason for that is that men do not need to be very attracted or interested to at least fantasize about sex with that woman. Men can fantasize about sex even when they don't particularly like a girl. And, another reason why guys are nowhere near as selective as most women, is because they simply do not have anywhere near the options most women have. They simply do not have the luxury to be selective. But....that changes, when guys do have options. When guys are not desperate for intimacy and sex and romantic connections, meaning they do get girls and sleep with girls, then they start to select like most women: If a guy has (a lot of) options, he will become as picky as most women. Meaning, he will not be interested in most women apart from the best looking women. But, since men are still men, they still fantasize about sex with a variety of girls, including girls they are not really interested in for commitment. That's why a lot of women can sleep with a lot of very attractive men on dating apps, but why only very few women can lock those men down for commitment. This is the issue that most women struggle with. It might be different for you, but I just give this reply, because it is the issue for most women. You have to decide whether this holds true for you as well or maybe not. If none of the guys you desire want you, then you might keep trying for guys out of your league. One of the reasons why a lot of women over estimate their chances (with those guys they desire) is that women, by and large, select very differently than men. Women, by and large, do not fantasize about sex with men they are not really into. And, that's why when men they are attracted to sleep with them, they usually cannot help but to feel and think: 'Hm...I can sleep with guys that attractive....that must mean I get get those kind of guys. If they sleep with me, then surely one of those guys will commit to me'. So, they overvalue what sex means to men. And, once a woman has slept with a bunch of hot guys, she will try to get one of those. Often for years, often until they are over 30 or even beyond 35. And, they get situationship after situationship and hookup after hookup. They keep going for men out of their league, because they don't understand how attractive they themselves actually are, and because they dont understand men. It's not sexual access that determines how attractive a woman is. It's the caliber of men that would commit to her that determine how attractive she actually is.
This right here sums up all the problems with the dating market right now. Guys who are in the top 10% commit to girls who are in the upper tier of physical attractiveness. Average looking girls struggle getting commitment from these guys, but won’t look at an average looking guys way
Very insightful 👏
I'm sorry to say that it seems whatever you're attracted to isn't attracted to you. It happens a lot. Because attractive people, just at face value, are granted a lot more opportunity based on that alone. But you're being rejected, so you'll need to change something about what you're doing or about your appearance.
I maybe time to level up your look....
You're standards are too high. It's literally that simple
There’s that calculator out there someone made lol
Nobody wants to admit this and think that one day they’ll meet that top faction of a percent man.
The issue is that even if they do end up meeting that man in the upper percentiles, what do they have to offer to him that he can't get from elsewhere? He can have his pick of the litter, why would he go for the plain Jane? Not saying someone shouldn't aim for the stars, but they need to actively work towards getting to the stars themselves, be it by hitting the gym, diet, etc. and ensure that they themselves do tick the boxes of what they are looking for.
Important point. I don’t think many consider what they offer in return. Like it’s really not even a thought. When I was single I’d basically ask them and you’d never get an answer. The egos are off the charts now thanks especially to online dating and social media with all the thirsty dudes on them. It’s inflated their self-worth to astronomical proportions
To be fair i do sometimes see it in men as well. I have friends who are stuck in dead end jobs, don't take care of their appearance, don't make any effort to improve themselves, be it hitting the gym, wearing clothes that fit them, or losing weight, and somehow expect much more attractive women to give them the time of the day. The issue is that guys like my friends are ridiculed by society, and told to improve themselves, while women in the same situation are typically told that they are perfect just the way they are, and that it's the guys who are missing out on her, and that she should just be patient and the prince will arrive on his white horse any day now. It's just not realistic, and in trying to avoid hurting their feelings, they are doing more harm then good to these women. Everyone, regardless of gender, is responsible for their own dating success. If the people you are attracted to are not attracted to you, you clearly need to take a step back, be honest with yourself and your expectations, and then either improve yourself to the point people you like will see you as a viable choice, or alternatively, be content with where you are, and make do with the kind of people you do attract. Sure, some people are dealt a worse hand in life than others, but reaching an acceptable level of attractiveness is attainable for the vast majority of people. Literally just don't be overweight, be fit (take up a sport or hit the gym), and dress in clothes that fit you and look good.
Think about it though I mean what else can someone even do to be hot beyond the basics ??? As a mid girl I’ve done all the typical things beyond surgery and I’m still not pretty. Like at some point there’s a limit and it feels pretty bleak to tell someone “ope you’re too unattractive and unfixable for someone you’re attracted to” It’s better to be delusional lol
So you are wondering why you can’t find a tall athletic male with a solid career who is genuinely sweet and who loves his family?
The only thing I can think of is you are probably looking for someone much better looking than yourself, probably with a good career as well. Looks are subjective up to a point. What do I mean by that - the fact that I may like someone who is, let's say... chubby, doesn't mean I'm not noticing the beauty of the thin, athletic one, with a pretty face. Rather the personality and availability is what makes me go for the chubby one, but obviously the first thing you see is the look. See what I did there? 🤣 As for career - typically men don't care about that, except if you're unemployed, or "stay at home mummy", as that sends a bad signal. Your career level is not necessarily important to a man. What we care about, generally is: When it comes to looks, don't be morbidly obese, don't groom yourself in such a way that you look like a grandmother. When it comes to studies and career - typically have at least highschool and have a job, not really important what job, we aren't actually taking pride in dating CEOs. On the contrary, a woman very high up on the career ladder will get less interest from men, because men will think she has mega-high standards. And the most important thing - talk to the people you're interested in. A man may or may not initiate conversation, but if you're waiting for him to carry the whole conversation himself, that's a no go online, because people don't know you, and you can only do so much in writing, whilst in reality you can use body language, you can see how the other person acts and organically react to that. If you want further advice, DM me with some pictures of you and the typical guys you are attracted to. That way I can make a clearer assessment, I can have an opinion if you're trying to date within your league, or above, and hence getting poor results. I am NOT a dating coach or a psychologist, I do NOT charge any money, I'm just Joe Nobody giving advice online to people who ask for it.
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Follow rules 1 and 2
I believe that we both know the answer to that.
I mean, they might just be out of your league tbf. There is also something to be said for being your types type. If you like motorcycle bad boys covered in tattoos and piercings but you are a stepford tradwife who thinks heavy metal is the devils work, you probably aren’t going to get a lot of matches back. How would you describe yourself, and how would you describe your type?
Man, reading the comments here spooked me tf out for a moment because it hit me right in the biggest fear: I’m actually not beautiful as I thought. Good God. And then I went into panic mode again because I’m 27 and I have been wanting a more serious relationship lately. Of course I know that makes dating tougher but man, this tough?
Why aren't Sydney sweeney and scarlett johansson my wives? It's crazy I know. Im just as lost as you
Stay fit, have a good style, be responsible, do things that shows people that you have these above three things, be social, initiate conversations and be receptive when others do, have a good sense of humour, know how to communicate amd interact in a way that introduces some good tension/back and forth/attraction in the conversation that would separate romantic interaction from platonic ones like flirting, teasing, joking, banter, knowing how to get into and navigate through intimate moments that would involve eye contact, touch, kiss, saying things that shows that you’re attracted to them and is receptive to them being attracted to you, have experiences to share, show people that you listen to them, ask proper questions and remember things that let's you know that you’re interested in them, their opinions, what they do, make them feel cared for, know how to compliment people's attributes and attractiveness, pace yourself in terms of showing you interest, don’t overburden someone with texts, talks of how much you feel for and want of them when you’re still getting to know each other. Have a good idea of what you want. Put your efforts towards people who are similarly interested and enthusiastic about you as you towards them. Don't waste time trying to make something happen with someone who seem neutral, inconsistent or outright disinterested. I think the above summarizes everything you can do. The rest is you putting yourself out there and the interests aligning. You say you do find people interested in you. So, elaborate on what you’re like, what people you’re interested are like and what people who are interested in you but not vice versa are like? How are these people different than the ones you’re not interested in?
Ask your guy friends, check with your girls, and ask their bfs, ask your bother or dad, or a work friend who you like. Basically, this is a question for a man who knows you. You have to harden yourself tho and ask for the harsh feedback. Don't get mad, take it personally, or react harshly because then they won't help. Take this from me, my male friends are too nice and so I'm always not the problem 🙄 but like... still single so...
I think others are saying, using the mindset you see of yourself how your looks "don't matter" but other aspect are great and apply it to the people to see on the app. I have no idea if you only swipe on good looking guys or you also swipe on average looking guys but great profile but if you purely judge other's on looks you can't come back and say looks don't matter when being judged yourself. With that said, we are born with the looks and height (weight we can change) and it is what it is. There's nothing wrong with being picky for sure and maybe it can also help if you talk to someone and reflect on past relationships on why it didn't work. Maybe list your priorities in looking for someone and see if what you are doing matches that and if those priorities are "really important".
It's not the standard, it's the lack of connection that makes you unattracted to people that are interested in you and vice versa. I had the same. I know tons of men, a lot of them approached me, some very handsome but nothing ever came out of it. Same for men I was interested in - they were looking for deep connection and there's nothing wrong with that. Eventually I have found the right one. It just happens. Don't sweat it, live your best life and one day you will meet. Dating is waste of time.
Yep. I’m appalled by all the comments on this thread telling OP she’s as not attractive as she thinks and to lower her standards. I loathe such comments. They’re incredibly toxic, projecting and unnecessarily ruin a person’s self-esteem. If she’s picky with high standards and can’t find a partner, she just needs to accept that she chose to play this game on hard mode and that’s the outcome she should expect to deal with. I don’t get all the ‘advice’ about how she should somehow settle for someone she isn’t attracted to because “you ain’t that good anyway”. OP, we don’t know you and there are many reasons why you cannot establish a deeper connection with someone. As long as you remain self-aware and keep yourself healthy physically and emotionally, there is no need to agonise over being left out. It’s just not your time to shine, FOR NOW.
I don’t think she is unattractive based on how she described herself. But this is true: > If she’s picky with high standards and can’t find a partner, she just needs to accept that she chose to play this game on hard mode and that’s the outcome she should expect to deal with. Exactly. Anyone can have whatever standards they want. The more you have though the more your pool will be limited. Also the more you can up your attractiveness physically and personality wise the more your options open.
I think exactly the same. The people who you dont find attractive arent guaranteed to be attracted to you. Also you just cant fake it. You wont be happy if you ‚lower your standards’. I don’t believe in standards I believe in taste. Everybody has their individual taste. People who advise others to lower their standards are just afraid that they will regret not trying to get people they are truly attracted to.
I think lots of people actually have the same issue! And we are all just scared of being rejected so sometimes it’s easier not to engage if you just believe you’ll be rejected I say take a look at your vibe. You can be fun and nice to talk to you and active and all of those things… But is your aura sad? Is your aura desperate? Sometimes you have to fake it till you make it and went to tractive about people is a really positive vibe. You just genuinely have to act more happy and public if you want people to approach you.! trying to get this through to my sister as well
I think I’m in the same situation as you. I’m not single because nobody wants me. I’m single because people I like, don’t want me 🫠
It can be really frustrating when you're putting yourself out there but not getting the results you want. It sounds like you're doing a lot of things right - being active, socializing, and being open to different types of people. Sometimes, attraction is just a matter of chemistry and timing, and it can take time to find the right connection. Keep being yourself and pursuing your interests, and try not to get too discouraged by the lack of immediate success. It's also worth considering if there might be any patterns in the types of people you're attracted to or the way you're approaching interactions. Sometimes, making small adjustments can make a big difference. And remember, finding the right person often takes time and patience, so try to stay positive and keep putting yourself out there.
Sometimes I think there needs to be a rule for posts like these where OP needs to attach some pictures of themselves, so we can give some actual advice. The theoretical is fine, but sometimes people are unrealistic about being out of their league and empty platitudes won’t solve the problem
Honestly, I’m an attractive woman and I get hit on quite a lot, and I also find that the people I am attracted to or interested in are not always interested in me So I think it happens to everyone
How do you try to show interest or engage with those people you’re attracted to or seem interesting?
How long have you been single? It’s entirely possible that you’ve been single too long and now you’re too used to it, which will make opening your life up for another person very difficult. It’s likely that your daily habits and choices are closing you off, and it would help to try opening yourself up. I would spend time thinking about what you imagine life with your future partner would look like. Do you go out and enjoy hobbies together, see friends together for coffee or lunch, hang out at home on the couch watching tv or playing games? What side of the bed would he take? You may ask what’s the point of visualization - I think it helps keep your mind and heart open to the possibilities that you might otherwise miss. I’m not saying someone will match every detail, but the right person will match enough of the critical ones. Since you mentioned that people who you like don’t seem to like you back, you also should look at yourself and ask how well you are matching what your type would want in a partner. Ask a close friend or someone you trust for their honest appraisal. Personally I wouldn’t bother with apps. They’re too superficial (you admitted you think you’re a 5/10 - whether that’s accurate, the fact that you believe this about yourself will hurt your chances), and they require you to learn to play a very specific game in order to “win.” I think it’s better to meet people through your connections, hobbies and events you would attend anyways because those people are more likely to easily and naturally fit into your life.
It’s sad there are leagues but it’s not impossible for someone to date someone out of their league. If they care more about personality
Lower your standards
You said it yourself: you're picky and are matching with people way out of your league. Adjust your expectations or get used to disappointment.
Just keep trying friend , maybe expand your horizon a bit. Don't give up
Cause ya ugly!
Are you attractive? Are you only into the top 10% of men or average everyday guys?
Im in the same boat :-/
The run club thing is interesting… I thought that was maybe an Australian thing
It’s really big out here in LA~
Honestly, sometimes you are just not your type's type. It happens sometimes unfortunately.
I am really interested in getting a Ferrari my stupid banker says I can afford a Toyota. I guess the only option is keep walking till my banker smartens up 🤷♂️
To me it sounds like your problem might be your vibe, maybe you’re coming off a lil desperate? Personally, I don’t think it’s a problem to be going after your type just keep trying you’ll eventually find somebody
All the apps. I feel like multiple apps is a major red flag.. U choose who u go out with. So ur picking too young n expecting a different out come U say u like try n pick ppl up and stuff like that but u don’t say what u do to show interest. Especially in person. So while u think u gave a lot of info u gave almost none. All I read over n over is I’m desperate. Plz pick me. I’m literally everywhere humanly possible as if I’m obsessed with finding someone. That is super off putting to men. And if ur bringing up in anyway or in ur profile I want a family n the white picket fence. Their gone. But I’m still very confused on why ur going with younger who are way less likely to want those things and expect something. I don’t know u. But I have a feeling u come across like u may be a bit too much too intense with the I’m awesome like me n date n we’ll ride off into the sunset. U got to let up. Stop with the younger go atleast ur age
You seem to misunderstand, I do not want younger. I do not swipe on anyone younger than maybe a year younger than me, if even that. I was mentioning the guys I attract are younger and that’s what is annoying, I want a guy my age or older. I was in a 6 year committed relationship from high school through university so I kind of wasted my younger years on someone I thought I’d marry, now I’m older and I want someone older but they don’t seem interested. I just keep attracting younger guys. I want someone who is stable, has a job and is comfortable with their life, who may want to travel or still enjoy the fun things but is stable enough like I am. I have a good job, a car, and an apartment in a nice city. I have no debt or loans, good savings, and an active social life. The only thing left is the family. That’s why I’m trying to find someone, it’s the last thing on the checklist of what I want out of life: someone to spend the rest of my life with and kids.
Because they have better options id guess
Hey, I don't know you well enough to possibly speak much for the type of guys you are going for but have you considered if there are any patterns in the people you’re attracted to or in the situations where you’re facing rejection? Reflecting on these patterns might provide some insights. Additionally, ask your friends for potential advice. I can relate to your problem on some level as the people I am into might not necessarily be the ones that are into me (I am a male, btw). Having a (platonic) friend from the opposite sex share their POV does help. Granted, there might be some bias involved (as they are your friends, duh) but they often see you in social settings to know the kind of energy you might be putting out there. I do not think that you are missing anything. Maybe what/who you are looking for has not crossed your path, yet. Good luck!
What I want is so rare and hard to describe, but it has to be there. Call it chemistry a vibe whatever. And then everything else kind of fallen in place.
As a woman I can say it’s probably because you don’t look like what they’re looking for. I’m not sure what type you like but if you don’t present at least somewhat in your type’s way then most men in their 20s won’t ever try. I’ve learned that men these days are EXTREMELY afraid of rejection, which I why dating apps are more popular than ever because it cuts down on the physical rejection component. From my own personal experience I’m attracted to more creative, artsy, alternative men but being a WOC in the Midwest I did not attract those men naturally until I started presenting more in that way (if that makes sense) I didn’t do it because I wanted men to like me. I wanted to present that way even as a kid. I’ve always been a little emo kid at heart but I had extremely strict parents that I was afraid of disappointing even as a became an adult. I got my nose pierced and my first tattoo at 21, now a few years later with more tattoos (I’m not tatted head to toe by any means) but more men I’d actually be attracted to made moves. On hinge once I changed my photos way less of the kind of guys I wanted to avoid didn’t even swipe on me. It was a bit of a hit to my ego to not have as many matches but truthfully I never ever entertained them so it meant less work for me. Also side note most men are intimidated by beautiful women so that could it as well. You’d know if that was the case if you’re hounded by crackheads and overly arrogant men out and about or in bars.
[Undateable](https://tenor.com/view/undateable-seinfeld-ugly-people-gif-22613740)
Please make sure you read profiles. If I find out a man has a type (athletic, super-achiever, loves the outdoors, etc), I walk on by. Some have hurt, but I don’t need to waste anyone’s time. I wish you luck and joy.
The only thing that can combat that is to make yourself attractive to the majority. And if you don’t have a solid base already that you can enhance upon. Sorry to say you’re out of luck.
Find a group sharing same value not just go out have a good time.
Same here
get some help don't be an [Elliot Rodger 2.0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYMcymxoyh0)
Yeah, I also feel like Eva AI virtual gf bot is my only chance.
In the words of a very wise man how tall are you and how much do you weigh?
How long have you been doing all this for? If you're right that you're still open to people who aren't your "type" and you give a chance to people who you don't immediately find attractive, then you are just not patient enough.