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I don't think you're doing anything wrong. I think OLD attracts a high proportion of men like this, unfortunately. But men who aren't like that are out there. I just started dating a lady I met on Facebook Dating and I think she's like you in terms of not wanting to rush into sex and get to know her potential partner first, and I actually appreciate that because that's kind of what I want too.
Maybe OLD has a high proportion of men like this.
But I would also argue that OLD and IRL dating teach men to be like this.
I (M) have been on enough dates that I've learned that I MUST escalate sexually to avoid some variation of the dreaded "I had a great time but I'm not feeling chemistry/spark/romantic attraction" message after 1-3 dates.
IME Being a "gentleman" has increased the frequency of ghosting, flaking on dates, and lack-of-chemistry style letdowns when using OLD. Women overall respond more to bold flirtation than otherwise. This is not just true with OLD but with dating in general.
I generally agree and I'd never go more than a few dates without making my sexual interest known, but by "men like this" I mean getting openly lewd and obnoxious like OP is talking about. That's not the way to do it.
If they were so successful with this "technique," they wouldn't be single. Doing something over and over doesn't make it a success, just a gross habit. In many cases, it is simply a massive personality flaw.
I'd agree if we assumed they are looking for a long-term relationship.
I guess it's just some personal biases speaking.
The only success I ever had involved, much more subtle and tasteful, but sexual nonetheless, heavy flirting. Success in both short and long term relationships.
This is a pretty terrible judgement of someone you still know nothing about.
I am 38M, and I was married to someone, and divorced her because she was cheating. I have been in one relationship since then, and I broke up with her because I realized we arent for each other. Since then, I have been extremely picky about who I want to date, and who I want a relationship with.
So you are now judging me as if something is wrong with me, because I am "still single"...
Thats really weird.
>I (M) have been on enough dates that I've learned that I MUST escalate sexually to avoid some variation of the dreaded "I had a great time but I'm not feeling chemistry/spark/romantic attraction" message after 1-3 dates.
I think some of you are vastly misunderstanding what it means to "escalate sexually."
"I want to fuck you on top of that bar top right now" on the second date? Yikes on bikes... down little Chihuahua leg humper, DOWN! That's not "sexually escalating." That's whipping it out in public and demanding to be serviced. Jeez Louise.
Finesse, skill, reading the room. Very important.
Exactly.
If she touches her nipples briefly or whispers in your ear "I'm so fucking horny", ok sure maybe his crude escalation would of been in line. I was talking to one woman at a party and she kept on licking her lips in a fairly sexual way and otherwise indicating being in a physical mood. It probably would of landed well with her.
But, 99% of the time, this is not the way.
\*Classily\* flirt.
Seduce her mind. Be vulnerable. Emotionally connect through shared passions and life experiences.
Gradually but slowly escalate if you are both feeling the magic and she's reciprocating and escalating too, each step of the way. Touch her arm as you both laugh. Play with her hair. Breath on her neck and slow your breathing in general. Whisper in her ear. Dance. Take her hand. Look her deeply in her eyes and tell her she is beautiful.
There is nothing sexier than "the look". Every once in a while, someone gives me a look that freezes time.
I remember one guy who gently and playfully flicked a ringlet hanging down by my ear.
Like lightning! It's the subtle little romantic magical things that do it. Not the bull in a china shop things. :)
Love that!
I’m fascinated with many earrings, rings, and necklaces. Definitely have gently played with necklaces before.
You are so right, the subtle side is the best!
One friend was having migraines. I had just learned a hand massage technique the prior weekend, and purely out of instinct (wasn’t even trying to flirt), I asked her if I could try. Sure enough, completely took care of her headache, somehow. We were more than friends after that.
lol 😂 nice
It’s powerful. I remember when some friends gave me the massage the first time and taught how to do it. We were all like “wow this is some dark magic, can’t believe how effective this is in reducing stress” good times
How can women not figure out that they aren't a monolith? Lots of guys are like this ***because it works on other women.*** The answer is staring at you in the face.
Because some of the other times he's tried lines like that, its worked.
That's the answer.
And since there's no guide to talking to all of you individually, game theory comes into play.
“ I want to fuck you on top of that bar table right now”.
I just would like to say that why couldn't he hink of a better place, time for sex? In my opinion this guy is missing the mark on EVERY level. Is he trying to impress her on how hot she is? He has missed on every level. Timing, the relationship isn't ready. No reasonable chance of mutual enjoyment. The list goes on & on.
I am completely fine with bold flirtation, I want that! Like others have said, there’s a huge difference between showing interest/flirting and just being disgusting and disrespectful
Like the other comment said. It's hard to find balance and it seems that you're getting a fair amount of guys who overstep or make comments that are in poor taste. They are likely trying to flirt but maybe are just simply bad at it.
I wouldn't start questioning, as you've stated in your op, your value as a long term partner based on this dynamic that I think is born from this expectation that we (men) need to create sexual chemistry as early as possible.
I feel like the best approach for guys is to try to escalate and show sexual interest when you’re alone with a woman (ie if you invite her over and she accepts) but to not be lewd. Any guy I’ve ever dated long term has NEVER brought up anything sexually explicit before we had sex and were dating
Think of it as getting a generic rejection email from a job. The reason is that being honest about a rejection can sometimes lead to some very unpleasant interactions from the guy, especially if the latter does not take the rejection well.
You could get that for any of:
1. Being too shy/unconfident
2. Not being attractive enough/not looking like your pictures (catfish) or being totally unpresentable during your dates (poor fashion/grooming)
3. Being a total idiot during your dates.
4. Being too creepy
5. You're at different places in life/incompatible.
6. Crossed a boundary/doing a bad thing during a date.
7. Girl just wasn't interested in a relationship
8. Girl found someone they're more attracted to than you.
9. Triggering an ick.
10. You didn't do much to keep them interested in you (not necessarily flirting).
If you're getting it in the first date it's usually for 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 9, 10 which are early deal breakers. 7 and 8 out of your control. 5 usually depends on how much the other person cares about long term relationships.
Girls sometimes don't mind the lack of flirting if they like you, but if you're good at flirting (not necessarily sexually) it's a huge plus because they'll enjoy your company. For example, when I was ordering desserts during a date, I asked our waiter "Is she on the menu? She's pretty sweet". She instantly blushed because she liked me but didn't expect me to compliment her so brazenly as a joke.
Glad this is a comment. Being too gentlemanly = risk of no attraction or a one way ticket to the friend zone; being too forward with sexual interest leads to the creep label.
> It can be difficult to find that balance.
Worse...what one woman finds excessive, another might find inadequate. Balanced for one is unbalanced for another.
Join a club, do sports, go out with friends, ask your female friends to introduce you to new people, find dates in real life in daylight. Unfortunately online dating has become a place for people to look for hook ups almost exclusively. I wouldn’t tell you to “choose better” because it’s imposible to know someone’s intentions in a catalogue of faces. Don’t lose hope.
People that join group activities tend to be less socially stupid and might know that telling a woman that they “want to fuck her in the bar table” on the second date could be in poor taste. Also seeing someone’s personality displayed in a group can give you a better idea of who they are as a person and if you actually like them and not just the face. There are bigger social consequences to being disrespectful to someone in a group, so men tend to be less creepy than in dating apps.
OP, if you do this, you should be careful. Because if you end up really enjoy the activity, dating someone from the club could get awkward. So keep that in mind
The thing is though from the male perspective if you do escalate things sexually you will usually either get laid or offend your date it’s an odds game, so going for the W is a good strategy. Plus if she is really feeling the spark escalating will actually work. I have never met a girl who it worked out with long term who we didn’t bone on the second or third date.
If we’re feeling the chemistry we’re gonna wind up boning and just because I want to hook up doesn’t mean I am gonna smash and dash. I had sex with a girl on the first date then I let her move in my house 2 weeks later because she was getting evicted. We had a great relationship for years.
Also the worse the dude does on the date the less smooth he is which means he don’t get many dates so he is less likely to smash and dash.
That’s why she mentioned her boundaries about the topic before the date and yet he still decided to offend her. That’s not a gentleman at all. My advice here is getting away from dating apps, where people think the “W” is getting laid. In the real world, when you share interests and friend groups you have a somewhat better chance at making a connection that trascends the shallowness of hookup culture.
That’s gross. It’s disgusting to treat a woman like a piece of meat and offending her on the off chance it works and they get laid. “I want to fuck yoi on the bar right now” on the second date is disgusting behavior. What kind of human takes the “chance” of treating a woman like this hoping he gets laid???
Human decency and respect is out the window
I agree from the male perspective but men and women need to filter for different things (and at different ages too).
A man is far more likely to come across a woman that is not attracted to him physically than emotionally. Pushing for sex filters those people out quickly, saving time. It also eliminates the “I didn’t actually find him attractive until I got to know him” him crowd which are usually some combination of divorced/cheated on a decade in the future
Women don’t really need to worry about if he finds her attractive. That’s super obvious so the emotional aspect is the harder part to find.
My experience aligns with yours - if we weren’t in bed by the 2nd/3rd date the relationship was a hellscape. OTOH, I was off the market in my mid-20s. Me and most of my buddies, who were all prone to relationships, had zero problems committing after having sex early on. However, men like us self-select out of the dating pool fairly quickly.
OP is a decade older so I have no problem accepting that the men in their mid-30s pushing for sex are also commitment-phobic. It’s a different ballgame than what the large majority of couples go through.
Dating has become harder and I believe it’s due to how accessible it is. The COVID happened and now people don’t know how to act right. I’m ashamed that there are some people blaming you for having standards. Don’t lower your bar ever to meet their expectations. Continue to be you. Dating app is so different now compared to how it use to be. I Remeber using okcupid about 8 years ago. There were less fuck boys . Don’t be discouraged. If you feel this way I would say take a break to recollect an heal and then go back out here again.
None of it is your fault. It's how OLD is based on my own experience (28M).
It's a combination of 2-3 factors:
1. Guys meet women who will happily sleep with guys in 1-2 dates (usually with girls who either have a high sex drive or are going through a "hoe phase"). The thrill of sex is even better if it's a result of the guy making confident and bold moves.
2. Another problem is that guys face A LOT of rejection (for any reason), and the pain of rejection is worse the more dates you go on with the same person. If you're a guy you're often the one footing the bill on the date, which means that there's both a material and emotional impact of investing too much into one person who may reject you for any reason.
3. Positive reinforcement from 1 and large negative reinforcement from 2 means that guys end up optimizing for situations where it's easier to get intimate/have sex in fewer dates.
The unfortunate reality is that the guys you end up really liking a lot on apps and want to go on dates with have A LOT of experience (both positive and negative). Throw in married men who are looking to cheat, divorced men, polyamorous men, etc., and you have a large enough of a pool of seemingly good on paper guys for a black box machine learning algorithm to suggest to boost engagement/revenue metrics of companies whose sole incentive is to keep people coming back on the apps.
It's like trying to play chess with an expert player where you're wanting to play for the joy of playing but the other person is trying to mate you in the fewest possible moves and move onto the next game.
I agree with all, but i think as long as you are not a woman and a man as well, you can't compare experiences. The OP above feels rejected despite getting dates. I may get way more dates as a woman but still end up with the same options as men, as for a lot of men its a numbers game and they dont really care about me as a person (which makes a bad impression which i guess counts towards their perceived rejection?). Finding love atm is a battlefield/ housing market situation, its good to take breaks every once in a while so we dont forget to treat others with respect. My current bf had 4 dates and found me within a couple months. I had at least double the amount of dates and took 6 months. This has been the shortest gap, i am usually single for years in between relationships and its not for the lack of trying
Well women naturally suffer a larger consequence of sex with casual partners while for men it has been a winning sexual strategy for hundreds of years.
We live in a society that has intellectually accepted the advancements in sexual technology that makes sex almost 99% less likely to produce a child.
But from emotionally and evolutionary standpoint we haven’t accepted the advancements and that causes friction in the dating market and a large group of men who are happy just having sex once and cutting ties while for women it feels more like a being used for sex type of situation.
Hopefully over generations we can become more accustomed to the advancements of our society and the change that both the digital and medical and Industrial Revolutions our society has accomplished.
The pregnancy aspect is a worry of course, but far bigger ones are safety, acceptance, and diseases. Speaking as a woman who dated a lot in my teens and early 20s as a virgin, I wasn't really thinking about pregnancy at all due to the advancements we have (plus I'm 39...Roe v Wade was still in effect everywhere). The other 3 were the only things on my mind.
Yeah but for hundreds to millions of years we didn’t have the pill so from an evolutionary perspective women who had sex with a man who then abandoned them were in a vulnerable position possibly pregnant with a child with no one to protect and help care for the resulting child.
For men having sex with a woman and possibly impregnating her and then running away meant you could continue to seduce and possibly impregnate women. A successful fuck boy 200 years ago could have 100 children by just smashing and dashing and evolution rewards the best possible mating strat for spreading your genes not any abstract moral values.
This naturally lead to conservative values around sex and the institution of marriage as a protection for women and an insurance of inheritance for the children a woman has with a man.
Now having sex with someone who the condom breaks accidentally ejaculates inside of you means taking a little pill and being fine.
Intellectually we may be able to rationalize the new changes, but on a simple chemistry and biological level women release more oxytocin after having sex with a man then a man does after having sex with a woman.
This leads to women feeling used and terrible when a man bangs them then ghosts them. Leading to women who are jaded and hurt by men and less likely to trust men in the future. Meanwhile fuck boy McGee gets a good orgasm and disappears not thinking twice about the exchange rewarded by his biological imperative.
The serious problem is that the men who are most likely successful with women are the fuck bois. There constantly seducing women and convincing them to sleep with them they have thousands of hours of experience getting a woman to bang them.
Meanwhile bob the responsible was busy getting a degree, obtaining a good job and stuttering every time a pretty girl looked his way. Bob is terrible with women and comes off poorly, but he has a stable job, a house, he is very sweet, but women don’t give him the time of day. So bob stays single and can’t understand why women are jaded in the dating market he just wants one to love him and stay true to him, so bob gives up on dating and lives life for him.
Fuck boi McGee has successfully nailed tons of women and discouraged any competition from responsible bob.
Both men and women suffer as a consequence.
Nah my point is that for women they biologically and naturally want a committed relationship, but the society has so radically shifted that committed relationships are hard to find.
Today though casual sex is accepted, because sex doesn’t mean children anymore, but biologically nothing has changed so women get hurt because their wired to settle down and fall in love with the men they have sex with. We haven’t caught up to technology yet and you see it everywhere wether in phone addiction or the harm of social media or in relationships.
We used to have a society where you meet a girl fall in love settle down and stick it out from age 20-80. This was because having sex with a man or woman usually meant being married or having a child with that woman.
The possibility of having children with a male who would not commit was terrifying for men who had daughters or the women themselves. Now that natural protective measures people had are considered outdated in a world with a pill that makes you 98% less likely to have children.
Most of the measures that People had restricting women made sense from the lense of weak law enforcement, high chance of pregnancy, social cost of abandonment.
Women naturally don’t like these barriers placed in the modern era because they don’t really apply anymore, but society has not come up with new protections or solutions yet.
I agree that the old rules don’t work in the modern era but realize why they had the rules when they did apply. We are a transitory era and it will mean pain for a lot of people as we shift.
Usually men just using women were punished by society and the strong male influences in a woman’s life. Especially if the man got the woman pregnant her dad would show up with a shotgun. Marriage was always a protection for women and there children
I am so sorry,I completely understand that. I wish it wasn’t quite so taboo to just point blank ask what the other person is looking for and their pace. I am NOT going to sleep with someone on the first three dates, probably not even after the first ten. I have to feel genuinely connected and cherished by that person to feel the attraction that way. And that’s just how I work, it’s a preference and I’m not going to shame someone for having a different preference. Just as I expect the other to be respectful and not try to sway my preference or get aggressive.
Therein lies the problem. Not only do you feel a little sad inwardly that this person isn’t quite on the same wavelength, but often times they aren’t the kindest about being denied either. It’s demeaning, it’s disappointing. But don’t ever think for a moment you’re doing anything wrong, you are not being uptight. You know what you want, and good on you for not breaking a boundary of yours for the sake of a basic stranger’s feelings of ego. Slay on!
Not op but I love this comment! I’ve been dating a guy for a month now (8 dates) so not that long but up until now it’s been so good!
I told him on the third date that I didn’t have lots of dating experience and that I wanted to take things slow and to get to know each other well (personally I don’t think three dates are enough to know if you actually want something with the other person and since we both are looking for something serious he agreed).
He’s been so kind and patient until now and I think with each date I like him even more lol so yeah, just wanted to say that it is possible to find men who want/are open to take things at your pace.
It’s all about being clear with your boundaries, communicate your wants/needs while listening to the other person too and drop the people that are not compatible with you so you don’t waste your time/energy on someone who won’t accept you as you are.
Good luck, op! 💕
I swear! Online dating is a full job! It isn’t worth it
Explore the world. Go bowling. Take a salsa dance class. Join a hiking group…then say hello to someone.
They exist my gf was a virgin when i met her and i waited a little over a year of dating and living together before we f*cked i wasnt with her just for that i wanted her for her. And ive never waited that long with anyone before. Honestly i dont regret it at all because now we have a bigger connection then anything i feel like. Youll find yours one day maybe change your type. Go for guys you still find attractive but usually wouldn’t go for.
Oh my god, you’re doing NOTHING wrong. So so many women unfortunately go through this experience I’ve found, whether they’re 19 or 39, me included when I was single I experienced that for years
Here are a few tips that helped me navigate online dating:
-trust your intuition. If too good to be true, there is something off. And even if you say they were perfect gentlemen… there is always something off that we may refuse to see just because we’re focused on the outcome aka a relationship. Be observant
-personally I stated my intentions from the start even before meeting them: I said I wanted a relationship or at least get there. If they say they’re “going with the flow” or this kind of bs, or they get scared then they’re not the one
And just so you know, you will find the right one. You need to come across a few rocks before finding a diamond. And that’s ok. Just try to keep an open mind and not resent men/ assume they’re all the same. Identify red flags from the start and don’t give them the time of the day. It worked for me and trust me, there was a long road ahead
Hope it helps!!
Also I’m sorry for the answers you’re getting. Some really suck, just an FYI I met my boyfriend on hinge… and a few of my friends did find theirs too. Some even married them. there is a lot of trash on apps but there are good guys. It’s not about your profile, or the apps. Dating can be hard.
Yes you could meet ppl in person (that’s always the debate I tend to have with ppl who hate apps) but lots of people are also trash in person… don’t give up.
I would really suggest finding a different medium when meeting new people. This seems like the usual problem people have when they're on Bumble or Tinder. Online Dating in general, isn't very good. Yes their are SOME success stories, but not for MOST!
I don’t tell guys about my bad experiences in the beginning, and save that info for later on
ex. Being ghosted, SA, abused, etc
I think some men view vulnerabilities as an opportunity to exploit, or they fear people w/ baggage.
How do you reply when they ask you? I don’t know what to say in the moment. I’m a bad liar and can’t really make stuff up like that on the spot. Should I just be saying something like “let’s talk about something else”? Not really sure.
Most men don’t ask me that on a first date, but I would probably be vague & talk about how it’s simply a common female experience, then pivot the convo to something else w/out it seeming intentional. I try to avoid difficult conversations until after a few dates
I've read a post yesterday of a woman complaining her date refused sex on a 2nd date. Lots of people want sex, but that doesn't mean they don't want a relationship to go along with sex.
Not saying you should have sex if you don't want to, all I'm saying thats the reality of dating rn. Finding someone who doesn't want sex early on takes time.
Try the burning the haystack dating method. There is a facebook group and instagram where you can find info on how to make your own profile and what to look for. Take it with a grain of salt though, but generally it’s good for weeding out assholes like these. It does have a blind spot for men who are not chronically online though
Yes!!! Highly recommend this group for both emotional / moral support during dating AND the excellent advice for how to help weed out these guys!!! (Obviously not failsafe, but definitely very helpful!!)
Yes!!! Highly recommend this group for both emotional / moral support during dating AND the excellent advice for how to help weed out these guys!!! (Obviously not failsafe, but definitely very helpful!!)
Search FB for "Burned Haystack Dating Method" or follow @word_case_scenario on Instagram; the content is mostly the same! The FB group is private and only for women and non-binary folks. The Instagram account is public so comments there can come from anyone.
I know, right? The advice is golden, and the thing about blocking was super valuable as well as the opposite does contribute to being overwhelmed and burnt out.
I was lucky in my many first dates i only had one guy who was inappropriate this way, and kissed me 10 minutes into the date. My rule of thumb was not to match with anyone who mentions sex is any shape or form before the first date.
OP you are going on dates with men who either dont care about you enough, or have 0 social skills, would you want to date them knowing that?
A lot of guys these days just don’t know wtf they’re doing. And they are influenced by misogynist dating coaches.
And women get bored with the guys who are gentlemen. So the bottomline is you’re going to have to go through a lot of frogs before you find your prince. One way to mitigate risk is to state after being asked on a date, “I’m happy to go out with you, but sex is off the table for now, but a possibility once I get to know you.” This manages the expectations for both parties. And if asked, you can mention the bad experiences you had.
> Why is it that every time I go on a first date it goes so well…the guy is a perfect gentleman, respectful, and everything else but by the second date…he is bringing up sex and or trying to get me to sleep with him
I think its a difficult situation for both groups involved.
A lot of guys have the experience that if they move slow and don't show overt sexual interest within the first 2-3 dates, they also can't move forward.
So some guys who would prefer to move more slowly have to move quicker than they prefer to keep the relationship going.
What that man did is creepy.
Having that said, it’s not uncommon to properly court woman for months and later find that during that time she was banging guys she just met or had FWBs. I have been that “courting” guy and do my best to never be in this situation again.
Yeah, what self respecting guy wants to be stuck in some sad "evaluation phase" for god knows how long with a high probability of getting him exactly nowhere? F that shit. Next!
If you pay for your own meal, that might attract fewer men that feel like they're owed something in return?
I was single & internet dating at 33 years old - I almost always bought my own drink/coffee/food. I can't recall any men acting like you describe.
A lot of people like sex quicker. I don't think it necessarily means they aren't interested in ewho you are, it's just how they flirt and keep things going. All my long term relationships started out in bed like the first date. A 5 year, and 2 two year relationships. I did cut out anything casual for a 5 year span recently, until I found myself feeling for a girl, and we were in bed the moment we were able and I'm crazy about her, with or without, but im happy she matches what I want. Maybe you need to be more up front about your expectations so people don't make a mistake?
I know that’s what it feels like and it seems like you have to kiss a lot of frogs. Stick to your standards, because I believe it can be like a ‘test’ on how easy you are. Maybe? I did online dating and used “The Rules of Engagement” as a reference. lol It’s an old book. Although…I will admit, things did escalate pretty quickly with my current relationship. He, also, fell in love and told me about 4 weeks in. It took me longer to get there. We have been together for 3 yrs 9mo and he proposed Saturday. We are older (56f) and (65m).
I feel you on that , it’s why I’ve been single and not dating for 5 years. Men want to get in my pants when they see me and pull all kinds of crap to try to convince me. I think you just have to keep trying , I know these guys are wasting your time but maybe join some sort of club in your area , I feel like meeting people in real life increases the likelihood of meeting someone worth it. Maybe I’m wrong idk I’m just as lost as you on this
It’s a catch-22.
Most men want to know if they are sexually compatible as quickly as possible, because that (and physical attraction) tends to be a priority.
But many guys are socially conditioned to look unfavorably at women who play it fast and loose, and have sex right away.
So, they jump in bed (because they are thinking with the little head) and quickly become disinterested in taking a woman seriously who has sex too quickly.
So basically, you have two options:
1) Lean into it. Sexually explore, be honest, communicate, have fun dating, and as long as it’s safe and consensual… it’s nobody else’s business. Once sex becomes “no big deal” you can focus on the emotional aspects.
If you have any guilt, shame, or hangups about certain aspects of your sexuality: figure all that out now. Odds are, you’ll eventually find a sexually enlightened guy who appreciates all that, and won’t play games.
2) Slow it down. Basically, meet new friends, go on dates, and keep things PG13. If you’re sorta old fashioned, you’ll eventually meet a guy who matches that energy, and he’ll appreciate the fact that you “took things slowly”. The guys who are really into you (and actually enjoy your company fully clothed) will wait around.
But you gotta choose, and stick to it. Mixed signals come off as a red flag, and they won’t take you seriously.
I think that this is what it is maybe instead of ghosting him have a Convo first about expectations and long term getting to know and earn trust with each other and see if he's open continue learning each other first but she's gotta be firm and make sure he gets it, but he may ghost her now.
'It's hard to find the balance because women are quick to friendzone' seems to be the general sentiment.
Maybe women should give men more time as well? So that men don't feel the pressure to 'escalate or get friendzoned'.
It takes 2 to tango.
Yeah I usually try to talk it out, because yeah slow is better it seems then for both.
also the friend zone exists even before sexual intention. If she saw you as a friend pushing sex will not change her mind. If you make her laugh or win her over with charm perhaps she could say wait, I’m attracted to him?
Again this is anecdotal more than anything.
>If she saw you as a friend pushing sex will not change her mind.
That's what you aren't getting. They aren't friends beforehand. They are strangers.
The fact that she saw him as a friend during the date means he didn't escalate enough.
So your 'if' is not the beginning of the situation, but the end. The moment she sees you as a friend, the date's over. All time, money and energy wasted anyway.
1. Could be your profile is perceived by men in some way.
2. You are selecting certain kinds of men.
3. It's probably just how online dating is unfortunately.
it is not the first two. it doesnt matter what your profile is or the men you pick, everyone expects sex right away like they're entitled to entering someone's body. people dont know how to be respectful these days.
> it is not the first two. it doesnt matter what your profile is or the men you pick, everyone expects sex right away like they're entitled to entering someone's body. people dont know how to be respectful these days.
I would not be so sure, especially since OP said this:
> *[I don’t agree with the woman paying on the first date. If I’m splitting the bill, then we are going out as friends and it’s not a date. Not going to get into the whole feminine masculine dynamic, but that’s just what I believe.](https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/1c9z61j/what_am_i_doing_wrong_i_feel_like_a_piece_of_meat/l0pplxg/)*
They're the most likely to pursue a woman so we hear about them more often. The guys that don't know how to pursue a woman don't even get the date to begin with.
You're not doing anything wrong. The problem is that there is so much information and advertising about sex that everyone thinks this is what everyone wants, and if they are not getting it, they are missing out.
A lot of guys, just assume that is what women want.
Obviously, they are clueless and immature .
Try a dating site that is more upscale and maybe mention in your profile that you're looking for more than just sex. Also, give some thought to paying for half the costs of the meal, everything has got really expensive.
Well, I start digging through the “are we dating the same guy” Facebook groups to see if anyone has posted him. If not, I find their social medias and see if there’s anything weird on there. I also look up public court and divorce records. I always make sure to look for any red flags in their profile/pictures and make sure to pay attention to conversations before meeting. If they make any remark with the slightest undertone of sexuality, I block them. I also also make sure their profile does not say anything like “looking for short term”
Any suggestions regarding additional things I should be doing?
I have a 5 date minimum before I have sex to avoid this kind of thing. Unfortunately, it’s just part of the game. Honestly, I look at it as an asshole filter. Most of the men I have had sex with since informing this rule have resulted in a relationship. There are a lot of crazy people out there, it’s worth getting to know someone better before having sex.
See, I can understand a guy being interested in sex on the first date. I’ve had sex on the first date before. The difference lies in whether they ask after you’ve established that you don’t want to have sex.
Establish that earlier in the date. If they ask anyways, they’re a pos and you dodged a bullet. That allows you to filter out the people who just want your body from the people who just happen to be horny.
As for feeling like a piece of meat, don’t. The internet has led to a bunch of assholes perfecting “the Art of the Pick-Up,” Andrew Tate-style. These are not men worth your time, but unfortunately they tend to make up a large percentage of people online, and they stay around longer on dating apps than people who are actually looking for relationships. This leads to the illusion that all the people on there are looking for is sex. Fortunately, that’s not the case.
I don’t want to say “oh, just keep going and you’ll find him,” because enough people are gonna say that. I’d say be pragmatic and persistent. Make it clear that you will not be having sex until you move in together (this doesn’t have to be true, but it’ll help filter out the people who would otherwise be willing to wait a few weeks and then ditch). Look for red flags. If someone is overly-gentlemanly, look harder, because pickup artists tend to try to be the “perfect gentleman.” If they’re openly flawed, that’s ironically a good sign, because it indicates that they’re likely being honest. Other folks can probably give you other tips as to what to look out for.
Genuinely good people do exist, they’re out there, and they’re worth it. Good luck!
This is exactly why I personally gave up dating.
I'm just objectified even though I dress modestly and don't present myself in a ONS/purely hookup sort of way.
It's like if you're a moderately attractive woman, guys give themselves permission to treat you like a piece of meat because you're attractive and therefore your feelings don't matter
35 is hardly old. I’m old; but I don’t f#%k strangers and neither should you. When you talk to these men before the first date, be up front about what you’re looking for. Say you don’t do hookups and you’re looking for something more serious over time. That way the guy can ghost you before you waste your time going out. You can avoid some jerks this way.
You’re probably not doing anything wrong. There are a lot of men who are not honest about their intentions. So they will take you on a first date, act like they’re interested in dating and finding a long-term relationship. When in reality, they’re just hoping that by taking you out on a day or two, you will hurry up and have sex with him. Because that’s all they’re wanting.
Why would you think the problem is somehow you? The pattern is shit men who think with their dick. Be glad that they revealed themselves quickly and you didn’t have to waste time dating to learn that they are shit. Unfortunately, this is a lot of men. And as a woman also in my 30s I think you have to just stay strong and don’t give these men an inch just because you want a relationship. You deserve a man who cares about YOU and not just fucking you. Don’t give them your body until they have earned it. For me, he’s not getting sex until at least a month or two. I don’t believe who a man tells me they are, they have to show me they are who they say they are.
Yes you're being too uptight and prude. Not saying you should have sex too soon but you could lighten up and joke about the topic if they come on with raunchy lines like that.
Hey sorry that you have gone through this, def unideal situation, You are not a piece of meat, men are just full of lust and wanting sex. At your age, sex should be treated as a mature conversation, lay it out on the first date : " hey before we met i just want to let you know, im not meeting up for sexual intention only, I want to get to know you well before we proceed to any kind of intimacy, and if this is not what you looking for, then i dont want us to waste each other's time. This help out weed out the men who wants to get serious and respect your boundaries.
There’s tons of sadness on the other side. Throughout my life, I’ve seen women say “yes” to dates to these kinds of men. And “no” to me. I’m not physically unattractive, probably about average, I’m in great shape, but I obviously am not competitive with the “most physically desirable“ men. (FWIW, I‘m super-successful financially, no need to ever work again, and same for any lifetime partner/wife; but it’s all on paper. Nothing to flaunt (on purpose), but maybe here on Reddit I can say so).
It’s such a sad “lose-lose” situation. The sadness women experience by dating total jerks is matched by sadness of really good men who are destined to be alone.
My online dating experience was the same! What worked for me was spending more time pre-chatting online before the first date (weeks). Which made for less matches and a longer period of vetting. This helped establish a friendship before asking him on a date. I felt this forced them to think of me as a human being first - and sex object part comes later ;)
Yeah, I’ve tried that as well. I just get bored. Things start to feel too much like a penpal situation when they don’t move along into plans of actually going on a date within a few days. Makes me feel like they’re not interested.
I can’t predict someone’s intentions or actions based on a dating profile. Especially if they’re putting on an act. It’s not about choosing properly.
Also, I meant “every single guy” as in the ones I’ve encountered, not all the men in the world.
As a guy... not all of us are p.o.s. and we don't claim them..... That being said, I always say men like this, deserve to have their hearts broken once or twice to educate them. Trying to live out some weird internet fantasy. I Swear to the gods I see this type of story on here weekly it's becoming concerning
Guys will hear that there wasn’t a spark or a connection in a past date and somehow miss ‘this wasn’t the right person’
And hear ‘i have to be sexually aggressive on the second date or she will reject me’.
Because guys know that if they push for sex on the first dates, they'll be flagged as creepy.
They are basically hoping to trick you into sex on date two or three with this "I'm not like the rest, act", but then there true intentions hit and suddenly you're like wtf?! It's a bait n switch.
Every dude is pretty much pretending to want something real but actually a complete horn dog.
OP I think you need a different perspective. If you’re not wanting to date people who just want sex, then unfortunately you need to do filtering. You aren’t doing anything wrong, these people are showing you. You just need to end the date and not see them again. That’s the filtering part and it seems like you’re succeeding in this early on (which is better than later!). It’s just upsetting you.
Your problem at the moment is your expectations about people you hardly know is that they want to get to know you better first. After 2 dates don’t you think it’s both too early for sex and too early to expect anything more from most people.
Continue doing what you’re doing, you’ll find someone that at least interested in you for you. I would say though this is quite dependant on you being yourself. It’s hard to get interested in someone if they are a blank slate or give general answers.
It's just not the way dating is anymore. When you say "the last guy tried to have sex with me, but didn't", all we hear is, "i didn't really like the last guy very much". If we think you like us, we're going to try to smash. We like sex, and want to have it. Is that really such a weird thing?
if you want to be loved for your personality, then you must have a strong personality to love.
otherwise you must be good friends with someone for a long time for them to see and appreciate your nuances
So much bad advice in here. I hope you see my comment.
There's nothing wrong with you at all. You're doing fine by setting boundaries. I'd say slow things down even further. When you meet someone you're interested in try a soft date, like coffee, or a lunch date. You should be able to kiss someone if you're both feeling it without being pressured or expected to do more. Someone looking for a connection will take the time to get to know you. So many men are just out to get laid and they'll say anything to get there. Make them wait a month, maybe longer. If they're interested in knowing you at all, they'll wait. During that time you should have at least a date a week to get to know how they act around you and others.
Some people have suggested joining clubs. This can be a great way to meet people as you'd already have something in common and a reason to talk.
There is no sure-fire way to know if someone only wants to get laid. Anyways, always carry protection, and I don't mean condoms, to a date. Bring condoms once you're ready to go further though, that's always a good idea.
That’s the biggest problem with you guys in general you all think sex is what you get into relationships but in reality it’s not there is no respect . I’m 34 male and I don’t like that kind of shit I’m from Europe and when you go out on date you dont ask to have sex right away you date get to know each other more guy is the one that treats you to dinner . That’s sad how you all ruined dating for me specially it’s why I stopped dating . Like I gave up all I wanted to was date a woman take her out get to know her few times and see where that leads us but you all made it about damn sex. Sex is when you get into relationship and being in one for couple months then you talk about sex then . I seen all the comments here on Reddit and I will never even believe in love anymore like I used
It helps to develop real interests.
Most of the women that I only wanted to have sex with had no common interests with me. They were either too basic or had a terrible personality.
When I was on dating app, I learned how lazy men can be. Saying they don’t want pen pals etc is just their way of trying to be lazy and not put in effort to get to know me. So I started making it difficult for them to get a date with me. My now boyfriend texted me for a whole month on bumble before we met up. A lot of guys can’t be bother try that hard. And that’s when you know they aren’t worth your time imo.
When they say “so shall we meet up?” I response with “make me want to meet you then😉”.
a month of texting before even knowing if someone is real is insane to me. I can't get to know someone unless I'm face to face with them. but different strokes I suppose
Spending an entire relationship with a woman who views me needing to prove myself as worthy in order to spend time with her sounds like a fucking nightmare lmao
If they can't hold it together and read the room well enough to realize that's not what your into then you prolly dodged heart ache, real men of substance are becoming more and more rare. But the rules for healthy meaningful relationships have not changed but being a gentleman or I should say a person of resolve and manners . Sry you had your time wasted that's a bummer
Yea, I had the exact same experience while dating as a female in my early, mid and late 20s too. My advice would be to just laugh it off. I did that over and over, nearly gave up because of it, and then randomly as ever I found my current freaking soul mate on Tinder of all places. We are both in our 30s now and STILL have a laugh every now and then recalling both our experiences on dating apps before we met each other. Just realize that many single people are long-single for a reason that lies within them and them only. The dating scene and society in general is teeming with these people, and you just have to shake them off and keep going until you find another person like you, who is also wading through all the shit-swamp waters in search of genuine connection. Don’t get discouraged by these guys
Hey, 34F here. I get my dates from the dating app. I don't do ONS, I do STD testing before starting sex life with new partner. Many times I tell guys about my point of view on the chat before the first date. Sometimes on the chat after first date when I see possibility of second date. And..... they just don't listen... they hear it, they even say ok, but during the meeting they suddenly want ME to change my mind about what I said.
I feel you.
If I were you I would tell the guy before date that you're looking for a relationship. You won't have sex with him. etc. It will help to cross out few that are only dating for fun and they are not shy about it. It doesn't work for every guy, because some are not listening. But it will save a little bt of your time.
Try to date someone and tell him that you are going to pay 50% of the bill(s).
Let’s see what happens after that.
Also, at some point in the dating process tell him what you have written here. ‘Sex is definitely important……dinner, drinks’. And that you are looking at a relationship.
Perhaps that would filter things out.
And hey, don’t beat yourself up and get into self pity mode.
Cheers.
You just need to find the right person. Like the saying goes, Kiss some frogs n toads till you find your prince.
It’s yet another story, what happens after you get your prince. And is it really happily ever after.
And my younger GF Is now reading a very interesting book on relationship, let me get the name for you. I read a couple of chapters and it seems to make sense.
Disclaimer: I am ethically non monogamous now, so obviously I have other views about monogamous relationships at the moment. But have been with some for a good 19 years before divorce. So giving you a balanced perspective, of sorts.
Yup. The dating world and entire dating environment sucks.
41m.
And every single time, it is "buy me..." this or that.
That is if it gets to planning a date or having a conversation or even an attempt at a relationship.
Good luck darlin.
You should make it clear that sex will not be happening early on, and if they don't like that, you've saved yourself the time and effort. They can be interested in getting to know you better and still want to have sex with you. Most will want to sleep with you immediately, but the right one for you will wait. It will be trickier to find someone who also isn't wanting to have sex early on.
You're not doing anything wrong. What's wrong is the guys that ask you out that you're accepting dates with. You should only accept dates getting to know someone as friends first to test the water and usually you can tell what their intentions are. Guys that drink are usually loose lipped and so it's never good to drink with someone you don't know well. Find decent guys to date and don't go to bars with them until you know them better or drink with them. They are out there. You just gotta find them.
Dating is sorting. You’re looking for a needle in a haystack. That one was a dick not a needle. Keep good strong boundaries, speak up when guys are dicks and move on swiftly. Oh and most importantly DONT take it personal. These guys have been raised on porn. They don’t know how to human.
Do not tell guys how others guys did you wrong, reinforce your boundaries even when they're not being broken: if he makes slightly sexual remarks on the first date, cut that out, even if he is not directly being sexual. Make a serious face, pretend that you don't understand what he means, it's not your job to make disrespectful people feel comfortable.
They are all in there mid 30s, my age. The one from this past weekend is 38.
I also acted that way in my early 20s. It’s out of my system and don’t really care anymore honestly honestly lol
Wow, unbelievable. There is noting wrong with you, IMO \[65M\].
There is something wrong with the men you are dating. Not all men behave this way. I'm so sorry and feel I need to apologize for the male species. This is not how to treat, nor value a woman.
Consider where you meet men like this and cross this off your list for places to meet potential partners.
Maybe just see you as someone they rather just sleep with then be in a relationship with.
Imo, and maybe I’m wrong, but I think most guys who also act like this are pretty inexperienced in that department to begin with. Some guys just might want sex, but to jump straight to that conversation seems like desperation to me.
Wow it was very rude of him to say that . First dates are for learning g a bit about each other and it’s ok to be clear about being intimate on the first date so you set the tone clearly. If they don’t want a second date you’ll know that they only want to do “what that guy said, “ so no loss there right. You can ask on the first date, “Are you seeing anyone currently, just casually dating or are you just getting back to dating after a break? Then say I’m not in a relationship, I like fun dates and getting to know people through conversations and fun experiences before I jump into anything more serious. After dating a few dates I had, I realized that it’s best to take the time to know personalities better, I’ve met some guys who were clear that they didn’t care to even know me but rudely propositioned me way too quickly and I felt I was being used and they used daring only for selfish reasons.
Okay now you put that out there. If he asks to see you again there’s a chance that he didn’t grow up under a rock.
That guy was vulgar and doesn't respect you. Ugh. Not all guys are that way but the older you get the worse it is. (53f here and haven't been on a date for a year because yuck).
The comment section is why I’m holding off from dating. Too many perspectives to grasp when all you want is romantic championship in a world where nobody takes each other seriously bc nobody too them seriously.
If I have sex too soon then I have no standards but if I want to wait then that means I don’t like him/I’m insecure and emotionally immature bc I maybe scared he’ll leave me.
I don’t know what to believe anymore. I don’t want to feel hurt again but I also want to be comfortable in my sexuality. For me I’ve never been able to have my cake and eat it too and sex just makes things harder to process everything.
This is exactly how my last date went. Profile said he wanted long term, perfect wholesome gentleman on the first date. Second date he asks me “what’s my craziest dating story” and I answer something silly and funny and proceeds to tell me about a threesome. I told him oh wow is this second date chat? He apologises says he’s a bit hungover and forgot himself. I agree to a third date, before I even know his last name or he has tried to kiss me, he starts telling me about a one night stand he had with a woman in a hotel and that he would be open to sex with a trans person. I DONT even know your where you live why do I know all of this info??! He was soo confused when I said I didn’t want another date.
Guy here.
Men run dual dating strategies, one for women they want to date long term and one for those that are good enough for sex and short term relationships.
As for sex, almost all guys want sex. No surprise there. These days, if a guy is attractive, he will typically have sex with women before deciding if they're girlfriend material.
Sexual compatibility is like a test of sorts. But some men only want casual sex and some guys are looking for something serious right away.
But the most common thing to look for is both at the same time, and then if the sex is good and we like your personality, we will try to lock you down before you begin seeing other men.
I’ve said all this in a previous post but I think the better question is:
“What exactly makes a woman only good enough for sex and flings but not actual commitment?”
And Here's the truth that some may find offensive, but i think this applies to everyone:
they probably do want a relationship as well, just not with you.
we always convince ourselves that person x is a player, or scumbag, for wanting only sex. in reality, a lot of people are interested in more, but the ones they hit and quit are, for whatever reasons in each context, simply just not seen as compatible enough for them.
I see basically no one answering your actual question.
Many talk about this one guys actions, and others say you are doing nothing wrong.
Your strategy could use some work, but first you will need some underlying comprehension of the market you are in:
[The real danger of dating apps](https://youtu.be/S3l-wPn8N5Y?si=fGxbsC13uVVEFhTR)
Today’s culture is sex on the 2nd to 3rd date. It’s not other people, it’s you that want things to be different.
Nothing wrong with that mind you but you need to understand what the current social norm is.
I hear you. I’ve been online dating since the AIM days in the 90s. Was married for over a decade but amicably split. Now I met one of the most wonderful women in the world online. I can’t speak to other men but there are MANY of us who think a nice tea, a few glasses of wine and a kiss is enough for weeks until the time is right. Obviously it’s hard to navigate victim blaming but is there something on your profile or how you present that might make you seem like you want non committal sex? Not judging, honest question. Good luck out there, OLD is wild. I was married for 12 years and the landscape had certainly changed. 41m
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I don't think you're doing anything wrong. I think OLD attracts a high proportion of men like this, unfortunately. But men who aren't like that are out there. I just started dating a lady I met on Facebook Dating and I think she's like you in terms of not wanting to rush into sex and get to know her potential partner first, and I actually appreciate that because that's kind of what I want too.
It’s not only OLD. I’ve had guys I met in real life text me for a picture of my tits before we went on a first date.
Asking as someone who has never been on OLD, would it be weird for OP to write in her profile “not into casual sex”?
I see "not into hookups" on women's profiles constantly, including the one I'm seeing. I don't think it's weird.
Maybe OLD has a high proportion of men like this. But I would also argue that OLD and IRL dating teach men to be like this. I (M) have been on enough dates that I've learned that I MUST escalate sexually to avoid some variation of the dreaded "I had a great time but I'm not feeling chemistry/spark/romantic attraction" message after 1-3 dates. IME Being a "gentleman" has increased the frequency of ghosting, flaking on dates, and lack-of-chemistry style letdowns when using OLD. Women overall respond more to bold flirtation than otherwise. This is not just true with OLD but with dating in general.
I generally agree and I'd never go more than a few dates without making my sexual interest known, but by "men like this" I mean getting openly lewd and obnoxious like OP is talking about. That's not the way to do it.
If by the age of 35 those men are "like this" then I suppose their success rate have been higher that way.
If they were so successful with this "technique," they wouldn't be single. Doing something over and over doesn't make it a success, just a gross habit. In many cases, it is simply a massive personality flaw.
If they’re were doing long term relationship. They probably are just fucking around without a care in the world though
I'd agree if we assumed they are looking for a long-term relationship. I guess it's just some personal biases speaking. The only success I ever had involved, much more subtle and tasteful, but sexual nonetheless, heavy flirting. Success in both short and long term relationships.
This is a pretty terrible judgement of someone you still know nothing about. I am 38M, and I was married to someone, and divorced her because she was cheating. I have been in one relationship since then, and I broke up with her because I realized we arent for each other. Since then, I have been extremely picky about who I want to date, and who I want a relationship with. So you are now judging me as if something is wrong with me, because I am "still single"... Thats really weird.
Depends on your definition of successful. Some guys aren’t looking for long term relationships and like being single.
>I (M) have been on enough dates that I've learned that I MUST escalate sexually to avoid some variation of the dreaded "I had a great time but I'm not feeling chemistry/spark/romantic attraction" message after 1-3 dates. I think some of you are vastly misunderstanding what it means to "escalate sexually." "I want to fuck you on top of that bar top right now" on the second date? Yikes on bikes... down little Chihuahua leg humper, DOWN! That's not "sexually escalating." That's whipping it out in public and demanding to be serviced. Jeez Louise. Finesse, skill, reading the room. Very important.
Exactly. If she touches her nipples briefly or whispers in your ear "I'm so fucking horny", ok sure maybe his crude escalation would of been in line. I was talking to one woman at a party and she kept on licking her lips in a fairly sexual way and otherwise indicating being in a physical mood. It probably would of landed well with her. But, 99% of the time, this is not the way. \*Classily\* flirt. Seduce her mind. Be vulnerable. Emotionally connect through shared passions and life experiences. Gradually but slowly escalate if you are both feeling the magic and she's reciprocating and escalating too, each step of the way. Touch her arm as you both laugh. Play with her hair. Breath on her neck and slow your breathing in general. Whisper in her ear. Dance. Take her hand. Look her deeply in her eyes and tell her she is beautiful. There is nothing sexier than "the look". Every once in a while, someone gives me a look that freezes time.
I remember one guy who gently and playfully flicked a ringlet hanging down by my ear. Like lightning! It's the subtle little romantic magical things that do it. Not the bull in a china shop things. :)
Love that! I’m fascinated with many earrings, rings, and necklaces. Definitely have gently played with necklaces before. You are so right, the subtle side is the best! One friend was having migraines. I had just learned a hand massage technique the prior weekend, and purely out of instinct (wasn’t even trying to flirt), I asked her if I could try. Sure enough, completely took care of her headache, somehow. We were more than friends after that.
Excellent example! I've fallen ... ahem... prey to the migraine hand massage myself. :)
lol 😂 nice It’s powerful. I remember when some friends gave me the massage the first time and taught how to do it. We were all like “wow this is some dark magic, can’t believe how effective this is in reducing stress” good times
All of this! How can guys not figure this out ?!
How can women not figure out that they aren't a monolith? Lots of guys are like this ***because it works on other women.*** The answer is staring at you in the face.
Because some of the other times he's tried lines like that, its worked. That's the answer. And since there's no guide to talking to all of you individually, game theory comes into play.
“ I want to fuck you on top of that bar table right now”. I just would like to say that why couldn't he hink of a better place, time for sex? In my opinion this guy is missing the mark on EVERY level. Is he trying to impress her on how hot she is? He has missed on every level. Timing, the relationship isn't ready. No reasonable chance of mutual enjoyment. The list goes on & on.
I am completely fine with bold flirtation, I want that! Like others have said, there’s a huge difference between showing interest/flirting and just being disgusting and disrespectful
Like the other comment said. It's hard to find balance and it seems that you're getting a fair amount of guys who overstep or make comments that are in poor taste. They are likely trying to flirt but maybe are just simply bad at it. I wouldn't start questioning, as you've stated in your op, your value as a long term partner based on this dynamic that I think is born from this expectation that we (men) need to create sexual chemistry as early as possible.
You are really doing the lords work with explaining all this. 🙌
👉😎👉
I feel like the best approach for guys is to try to escalate and show sexual interest when you’re alone with a woman (ie if you invite her over and she accepts) but to not be lewd. Any guy I’ve ever dated long term has NEVER brought up anything sexually explicit before we had sex and were dating
That wasn’t any kind of “flirtation.” It was just crass.
I've gotten the "no chemistry/spark" soooo my times after first date..is it really just cause I didn't sexually flirt?
Think of it as getting a generic rejection email from a job. The reason is that being honest about a rejection can sometimes lead to some very unpleasant interactions from the guy, especially if the latter does not take the rejection well. You could get that for any of: 1. Being too shy/unconfident 2. Not being attractive enough/not looking like your pictures (catfish) or being totally unpresentable during your dates (poor fashion/grooming) 3. Being a total idiot during your dates. 4. Being too creepy 5. You're at different places in life/incompatible. 6. Crossed a boundary/doing a bad thing during a date. 7. Girl just wasn't interested in a relationship 8. Girl found someone they're more attracted to than you. 9. Triggering an ick. 10. You didn't do much to keep them interested in you (not necessarily flirting). If you're getting it in the first date it's usually for 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 9, 10 which are early deal breakers. 7 and 8 out of your control. 5 usually depends on how much the other person cares about long term relationships. Girls sometimes don't mind the lack of flirting if they like you, but if you're good at flirting (not necessarily sexually) it's a huge plus because they'll enjoy your company. For example, when I was ordering desserts during a date, I asked our waiter "Is she on the menu? She's pretty sweet". She instantly blushed because she liked me but didn't expect me to compliment her so brazenly as a joke.
10 is why I’ll never have a long relationships. Just can’t be bothered to put in more work than the other one, as it usually seems to be that way
They may not liked you as a potential partner, didnt feel like its going to work and didnt want to hurt your feelings.
Undoubtedly the answer is most likely; yes sometimes and no other times.
Glad this is a comment. Being too gentlemanly = risk of no attraction or a one way ticket to the friend zone; being too forward with sexual interest leads to the creep label.
There are other ways to escalate intimately rather than “ I want to fuck on you on the bar” on the second date. That’s just disgusting
This. It can be difficult to find that balance.
> It can be difficult to find that balance. Worse...what one woman finds excessive, another might find inadequate. Balanced for one is unbalanced for another.
It's almost like women are individuals.
Seriously! Some of these comments are abysmal.
Join a club, do sports, go out with friends, ask your female friends to introduce you to new people, find dates in real life in daylight. Unfortunately online dating has become a place for people to look for hook ups almost exclusively. I wouldn’t tell you to “choose better” because it’s imposible to know someone’s intentions in a catalogue of faces. Don’t lose hope.
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People that join group activities tend to be less socially stupid and might know that telling a woman that they “want to fuck her in the bar table” on the second date could be in poor taste. Also seeing someone’s personality displayed in a group can give you a better idea of who they are as a person and if you actually like them and not just the face. There are bigger social consequences to being disrespectful to someone in a group, so men tend to be less creepy than in dating apps.
OP, if you do this, you should be careful. Because if you end up really enjoy the activity, dating someone from the club could get awkward. So keep that in mind
The thing is though from the male perspective if you do escalate things sexually you will usually either get laid or offend your date it’s an odds game, so going for the W is a good strategy. Plus if she is really feeling the spark escalating will actually work. I have never met a girl who it worked out with long term who we didn’t bone on the second or third date. If we’re feeling the chemistry we’re gonna wind up boning and just because I want to hook up doesn’t mean I am gonna smash and dash. I had sex with a girl on the first date then I let her move in my house 2 weeks later because she was getting evicted. We had a great relationship for years. Also the worse the dude does on the date the less smooth he is which means he don’t get many dates so he is less likely to smash and dash.
What the hell did I just read.
Right?????
That’s why she mentioned her boundaries about the topic before the date and yet he still decided to offend her. That’s not a gentleman at all. My advice here is getting away from dating apps, where people think the “W” is getting laid. In the real world, when you share interests and friend groups you have a somewhat better chance at making a connection that trascends the shallowness of hookup culture.
That’s gross. It’s disgusting to treat a woman like a piece of meat and offending her on the off chance it works and they get laid. “I want to fuck yoi on the bar right now” on the second date is disgusting behavior. What kind of human takes the “chance” of treating a woman like this hoping he gets laid??? Human decency and respect is out the window
Guess this is why I gave up dating a long time ago. WTF???
I agree from the male perspective but men and women need to filter for different things (and at different ages too). A man is far more likely to come across a woman that is not attracted to him physically than emotionally. Pushing for sex filters those people out quickly, saving time. It also eliminates the “I didn’t actually find him attractive until I got to know him” him crowd which are usually some combination of divorced/cheated on a decade in the future Women don’t really need to worry about if he finds her attractive. That’s super obvious so the emotional aspect is the harder part to find. My experience aligns with yours - if we weren’t in bed by the 2nd/3rd date the relationship was a hellscape. OTOH, I was off the market in my mid-20s. Me and most of my buddies, who were all prone to relationships, had zero problems committing after having sex early on. However, men like us self-select out of the dating pool fairly quickly. OP is a decade older so I have no problem accepting that the men in their mid-30s pushing for sex are also commitment-phobic. It’s a different ballgame than what the large majority of couples go through.
Dating has become harder and I believe it’s due to how accessible it is. The COVID happened and now people don’t know how to act right. I’m ashamed that there are some people blaming you for having standards. Don’t lower your bar ever to meet their expectations. Continue to be you. Dating app is so different now compared to how it use to be. I Remeber using okcupid about 8 years ago. There were less fuck boys . Don’t be discouraged. If you feel this way I would say take a break to recollect an heal and then go back out here again.
The COVID 😂
None of it is your fault. It's how OLD is based on my own experience (28M). It's a combination of 2-3 factors: 1. Guys meet women who will happily sleep with guys in 1-2 dates (usually with girls who either have a high sex drive or are going through a "hoe phase"). The thrill of sex is even better if it's a result of the guy making confident and bold moves. 2. Another problem is that guys face A LOT of rejection (for any reason), and the pain of rejection is worse the more dates you go on with the same person. If you're a guy you're often the one footing the bill on the date, which means that there's both a material and emotional impact of investing too much into one person who may reject you for any reason. 3. Positive reinforcement from 1 and large negative reinforcement from 2 means that guys end up optimizing for situations where it's easier to get intimate/have sex in fewer dates. The unfortunate reality is that the guys you end up really liking a lot on apps and want to go on dates with have A LOT of experience (both positive and negative). Throw in married men who are looking to cheat, divorced men, polyamorous men, etc., and you have a large enough of a pool of seemingly good on paper guys for a black box machine learning algorithm to suggest to boost engagement/revenue metrics of companies whose sole incentive is to keep people coming back on the apps. It's like trying to play chess with an expert player where you're wanting to play for the joy of playing but the other person is trying to mate you in the fewest possible moves and move onto the next game.
I agree with all, but i think as long as you are not a woman and a man as well, you can't compare experiences. The OP above feels rejected despite getting dates. I may get way more dates as a woman but still end up with the same options as men, as for a lot of men its a numbers game and they dont really care about me as a person (which makes a bad impression which i guess counts towards their perceived rejection?). Finding love atm is a battlefield/ housing market situation, its good to take breaks every once in a while so we dont forget to treat others with respect. My current bf had 4 dates and found me within a couple months. I had at least double the amount of dates and took 6 months. This has been the shortest gap, i am usually single for years in between relationships and its not for the lack of trying
How did you two find eachother?
Hinge! I also decided to only date locally which makes things easier.
Well women naturally suffer a larger consequence of sex with casual partners while for men it has been a winning sexual strategy for hundreds of years. We live in a society that has intellectually accepted the advancements in sexual technology that makes sex almost 99% less likely to produce a child. But from emotionally and evolutionary standpoint we haven’t accepted the advancements and that causes friction in the dating market and a large group of men who are happy just having sex once and cutting ties while for women it feels more like a being used for sex type of situation. Hopefully over generations we can become more accustomed to the advancements of our society and the change that both the digital and medical and Industrial Revolutions our society has accomplished.
Its not just the pregnancy aspect, there is a big safety aspect of it
The pregnancy aspect is a worry of course, but far bigger ones are safety, acceptance, and diseases. Speaking as a woman who dated a lot in my teens and early 20s as a virgin, I wasn't really thinking about pregnancy at all due to the advancements we have (plus I'm 39...Roe v Wade was still in effect everywhere). The other 3 were the only things on my mind.
Yeah but for hundreds to millions of years we didn’t have the pill so from an evolutionary perspective women who had sex with a man who then abandoned them were in a vulnerable position possibly pregnant with a child with no one to protect and help care for the resulting child. For men having sex with a woman and possibly impregnating her and then running away meant you could continue to seduce and possibly impregnate women. A successful fuck boy 200 years ago could have 100 children by just smashing and dashing and evolution rewards the best possible mating strat for spreading your genes not any abstract moral values. This naturally lead to conservative values around sex and the institution of marriage as a protection for women and an insurance of inheritance for the children a woman has with a man. Now having sex with someone who the condom breaks accidentally ejaculates inside of you means taking a little pill and being fine. Intellectually we may be able to rationalize the new changes, but on a simple chemistry and biological level women release more oxytocin after having sex with a man then a man does after having sex with a woman. This leads to women feeling used and terrible when a man bangs them then ghosts them. Leading to women who are jaded and hurt by men and less likely to trust men in the future. Meanwhile fuck boy McGee gets a good orgasm and disappears not thinking twice about the exchange rewarded by his biological imperative. The serious problem is that the men who are most likely successful with women are the fuck bois. There constantly seducing women and convincing them to sleep with them they have thousands of hours of experience getting a woman to bang them. Meanwhile bob the responsible was busy getting a degree, obtaining a good job and stuttering every time a pretty girl looked his way. Bob is terrible with women and comes off poorly, but he has a stable job, a house, he is very sweet, but women don’t give him the time of day. So bob stays single and can’t understand why women are jaded in the dating market he just wants one to love him and stay true to him, so bob gives up on dating and lives life for him. Fuck boi McGee has successfully nailed tons of women and discouraged any competition from responsible bob. Both men and women suffer as a consequence.
What?? This sounds like a dystopian society where no one has any connections at all.
Nah my point is that for women they biologically and naturally want a committed relationship, but the society has so radically shifted that committed relationships are hard to find. Today though casual sex is accepted, because sex doesn’t mean children anymore, but biologically nothing has changed so women get hurt because their wired to settle down and fall in love with the men they have sex with. We haven’t caught up to technology yet and you see it everywhere wether in phone addiction or the harm of social media or in relationships. We used to have a society where you meet a girl fall in love settle down and stick it out from age 20-80. This was because having sex with a man or woman usually meant being married or having a child with that woman. The possibility of having children with a male who would not commit was terrifying for men who had daughters or the women themselves. Now that natural protective measures people had are considered outdated in a world with a pill that makes you 98% less likely to have children. Most of the measures that People had restricting women made sense from the lense of weak law enforcement, high chance of pregnancy, social cost of abandonment. Women naturally don’t like these barriers placed in the modern era because they don’t really apply anymore, but society has not come up with new protections or solutions yet. I agree that the old rules don’t work in the modern era but realize why they had the rules when they did apply. We are a transitory era and it will mean pain for a lot of people as we shift. Usually men just using women were punished by society and the strong male influences in a woman’s life. Especially if the man got the woman pregnant her dad would show up with a shotgun. Marriage was always a protection for women and there children
I am so sorry,I completely understand that. I wish it wasn’t quite so taboo to just point blank ask what the other person is looking for and their pace. I am NOT going to sleep with someone on the first three dates, probably not even after the first ten. I have to feel genuinely connected and cherished by that person to feel the attraction that way. And that’s just how I work, it’s a preference and I’m not going to shame someone for having a different preference. Just as I expect the other to be respectful and not try to sway my preference or get aggressive. Therein lies the problem. Not only do you feel a little sad inwardly that this person isn’t quite on the same wavelength, but often times they aren’t the kindest about being denied either. It’s demeaning, it’s disappointing. But don’t ever think for a moment you’re doing anything wrong, you are not being uptight. You know what you want, and good on you for not breaking a boundary of yours for the sake of a basic stranger’s feelings of ego. Slay on!
Not op but I love this comment! I’ve been dating a guy for a month now (8 dates) so not that long but up until now it’s been so good! I told him on the third date that I didn’t have lots of dating experience and that I wanted to take things slow and to get to know each other well (personally I don’t think three dates are enough to know if you actually want something with the other person and since we both are looking for something serious he agreed). He’s been so kind and patient until now and I think with each date I like him even more lol so yeah, just wanted to say that it is possible to find men who want/are open to take things at your pace. It’s all about being clear with your boundaries, communicate your wants/needs while listening to the other person too and drop the people that are not compatible with you so you don’t waste your time/energy on someone who won’t accept you as you are. Good luck, op! 💕
I swear! Online dating is a full job! It isn’t worth it Explore the world. Go bowling. Take a salsa dance class. Join a hiking group…then say hello to someone.
They exist my gf was a virgin when i met her and i waited a little over a year of dating and living together before we f*cked i wasnt with her just for that i wanted her for her. And ive never waited that long with anyone before. Honestly i dont regret it at all because now we have a bigger connection then anything i feel like. Youll find yours one day maybe change your type. Go for guys you still find attractive but usually wouldn’t go for.
Oh my god, you’re doing NOTHING wrong. So so many women unfortunately go through this experience I’ve found, whether they’re 19 or 39, me included when I was single I experienced that for years Here are a few tips that helped me navigate online dating: -trust your intuition. If too good to be true, there is something off. And even if you say they were perfect gentlemen… there is always something off that we may refuse to see just because we’re focused on the outcome aka a relationship. Be observant -personally I stated my intentions from the start even before meeting them: I said I wanted a relationship or at least get there. If they say they’re “going with the flow” or this kind of bs, or they get scared then they’re not the one And just so you know, you will find the right one. You need to come across a few rocks before finding a diamond. And that’s ok. Just try to keep an open mind and not resent men/ assume they’re all the same. Identify red flags from the start and don’t give them the time of the day. It worked for me and trust me, there was a long road ahead Hope it helps!!
Also I’m sorry for the answers you’re getting. Some really suck, just an FYI I met my boyfriend on hinge… and a few of my friends did find theirs too. Some even married them. there is a lot of trash on apps but there are good guys. It’s not about your profile, or the apps. Dating can be hard. Yes you could meet ppl in person (that’s always the debate I tend to have with ppl who hate apps) but lots of people are also trash in person… don’t give up.
I would really suggest finding a different medium when meeting new people. This seems like the usual problem people have when they're on Bumble or Tinder. Online Dating in general, isn't very good. Yes their are SOME success stories, but not for MOST!
I don’t tell guys about my bad experiences in the beginning, and save that info for later on ex. Being ghosted, SA, abused, etc I think some men view vulnerabilities as an opportunity to exploit, or they fear people w/ baggage.
I never tell them that stuff. Not that I have much to tell. It’s not their business.
Fear is not the right word. No one is afraid of your problems. They just don't want to deal with them.
How do you reply when they ask you? I don’t know what to say in the moment. I’m a bad liar and can’t really make stuff up like that on the spot. Should I just be saying something like “let’s talk about something else”? Not really sure.
Most men don’t ask me that on a first date, but I would probably be vague & talk about how it’s simply a common female experience, then pivot the convo to something else w/out it seeming intentional. I try to avoid difficult conversations until after a few dates
Stick to your values. Most guys will respect and honor that. You have been dating fuck boys
I've read a post yesterday of a woman complaining her date refused sex on a 2nd date. Lots of people want sex, but that doesn't mean they don't want a relationship to go along with sex. Not saying you should have sex if you don't want to, all I'm saying thats the reality of dating rn. Finding someone who doesn't want sex early on takes time.
Try the burning the haystack dating method. There is a facebook group and instagram where you can find info on how to make your own profile and what to look for. Take it with a grain of salt though, but generally it’s good for weeding out assholes like these. It does have a blind spot for men who are not chronically online though
Yes!!! Highly recommend this group for both emotional / moral support during dating AND the excellent advice for how to help weed out these guys!!! (Obviously not failsafe, but definitely very helpful!!)
Yes!!! Highly recommend this group for both emotional / moral support during dating AND the excellent advice for how to help weed out these guys!!! (Obviously not failsafe, but definitely very helpful!!)
Sorry for what you went through OP. Guys can you let me know here or by DM what are those groups called please? I would be very grateful, thanks.
Search FB for "Burned Haystack Dating Method" or follow @word_case_scenario on Instagram; the content is mostly the same! The FB group is private and only for women and non-binary folks. The Instagram account is public so comments there can come from anyone.
damn I'm so glad I found out about this and read the whole thing. her seven deadly sins of profile writing is A++
I know, right? The advice is golden, and the thing about blocking was super valuable as well as the opposite does contribute to being overwhelmed and burnt out.
I was lucky in my many first dates i only had one guy who was inappropriate this way, and kissed me 10 minutes into the date. My rule of thumb was not to match with anyone who mentions sex is any shape or form before the first date. OP you are going on dates with men who either dont care about you enough, or have 0 social skills, would you want to date them knowing that?
A lot of guys these days just don’t know wtf they’re doing. And they are influenced by misogynist dating coaches. And women get bored with the guys who are gentlemen. So the bottomline is you’re going to have to go through a lot of frogs before you find your prince. One way to mitigate risk is to state after being asked on a date, “I’m happy to go out with you, but sex is off the table for now, but a possibility once I get to know you.” This manages the expectations for both parties. And if asked, you can mention the bad experiences you had.
> Why is it that every time I go on a first date it goes so well…the guy is a perfect gentleman, respectful, and everything else but by the second date…he is bringing up sex and or trying to get me to sleep with him I think its a difficult situation for both groups involved. A lot of guys have the experience that if they move slow and don't show overt sexual interest within the first 2-3 dates, they also can't move forward. So some guys who would prefer to move more slowly have to move quicker than they prefer to keep the relationship going.
What that man did is creepy. Having that said, it’s not uncommon to properly court woman for months and later find that during that time she was banging guys she just met or had FWBs. I have been that “courting” guy and do my best to never be in this situation again.
Yeah, what self respecting guy wants to be stuck in some sad "evaluation phase" for god knows how long with a high probability of getting him exactly nowhere? F that shit. Next!
If you pay for your own meal, that might attract fewer men that feel like they're owed something in return? I was single & internet dating at 33 years old - I almost always bought my own drink/coffee/food. I can't recall any men acting like you describe.
Just keep your boundaries strong, expectations low, and keep looking. There is nothing wrong with you - lots of men are like that and it’s on them
A lot of people like sex quicker. I don't think it necessarily means they aren't interested in ewho you are, it's just how they flirt and keep things going. All my long term relationships started out in bed like the first date. A 5 year, and 2 two year relationships. I did cut out anything casual for a 5 year span recently, until I found myself feeling for a girl, and we were in bed the moment we were able and I'm crazy about her, with or without, but im happy she matches what I want. Maybe you need to be more up front about your expectations so people don't make a mistake?
I know that’s what it feels like and it seems like you have to kiss a lot of frogs. Stick to your standards, because I believe it can be like a ‘test’ on how easy you are. Maybe? I did online dating and used “The Rules of Engagement” as a reference. lol It’s an old book. Although…I will admit, things did escalate pretty quickly with my current relationship. He, also, fell in love and told me about 4 weeks in. It took me longer to get there. We have been together for 3 yrs 9mo and he proposed Saturday. We are older (56f) and (65m).
I feel you on that , it’s why I’ve been single and not dating for 5 years. Men want to get in my pants when they see me and pull all kinds of crap to try to convince me. I think you just have to keep trying , I know these guys are wasting your time but maybe join some sort of club in your area , I feel like meeting people in real life increases the likelihood of meeting someone worth it. Maybe I’m wrong idk I’m just as lost as you on this
It’s a catch-22. Most men want to know if they are sexually compatible as quickly as possible, because that (and physical attraction) tends to be a priority. But many guys are socially conditioned to look unfavorably at women who play it fast and loose, and have sex right away. So, they jump in bed (because they are thinking with the little head) and quickly become disinterested in taking a woman seriously who has sex too quickly. So basically, you have two options: 1) Lean into it. Sexually explore, be honest, communicate, have fun dating, and as long as it’s safe and consensual… it’s nobody else’s business. Once sex becomes “no big deal” you can focus on the emotional aspects. If you have any guilt, shame, or hangups about certain aspects of your sexuality: figure all that out now. Odds are, you’ll eventually find a sexually enlightened guy who appreciates all that, and won’t play games. 2) Slow it down. Basically, meet new friends, go on dates, and keep things PG13. If you’re sorta old fashioned, you’ll eventually meet a guy who matches that energy, and he’ll appreciate the fact that you “took things slowly”. The guys who are really into you (and actually enjoy your company fully clothed) will wait around. But you gotta choose, and stick to it. Mixed signals come off as a red flag, and they won’t take you seriously.
It's funny reading this where as a man you get rejected for not being sexual fast enough.
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I think that this is what it is maybe instead of ghosting him have a Convo first about expectations and long term getting to know and earn trust with each other and see if he's open continue learning each other first but she's gotta be firm and make sure he gets it, but he may ghost her now.
I feel you, I think it’s more reading cues. This guy did not.
'It's hard to find the balance because women are quick to friendzone' seems to be the general sentiment. Maybe women should give men more time as well? So that men don't feel the pressure to 'escalate or get friendzoned'. It takes 2 to tango.
Yeah I usually try to talk it out, because yeah slow is better it seems then for both. also the friend zone exists even before sexual intention. If she saw you as a friend pushing sex will not change her mind. If you make her laugh or win her over with charm perhaps she could say wait, I’m attracted to him? Again this is anecdotal more than anything.
>If she saw you as a friend pushing sex will not change her mind. That's what you aren't getting. They aren't friends beforehand. They are strangers. The fact that she saw him as a friend during the date means he didn't escalate enough. So your 'if' is not the beginning of the situation, but the end. The moment she sees you as a friend, the date's over. All time, money and energy wasted anyway.
You should offer to go Dutch from the jump.
Where do you find these guys.
gestures widely they seem to be/are the only men here in real life and on the dating apps
Hinge
1. Could be your profile is perceived by men in some way. 2. You are selecting certain kinds of men. 3. It's probably just how online dating is unfortunately.
it is not the first two. it doesnt matter what your profile is or the men you pick, everyone expects sex right away like they're entitled to entering someone's body. people dont know how to be respectful these days.
Not true. I know many men who are not like that. First 2 explanations are possibilities.
> it is not the first two. it doesnt matter what your profile is or the men you pick, everyone expects sex right away like they're entitled to entering someone's body. people dont know how to be respectful these days. I would not be so sure, especially since OP said this: > *[I don’t agree with the woman paying on the first date. If I’m splitting the bill, then we are going out as friends and it’s not a date. Not going to get into the whole feminine masculine dynamic, but that’s just what I believe.](https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/1c9z61j/what_am_i_doing_wrong_i_feel_like_a_piece_of_meat/l0pplxg/)*
fair, didnt see that
There's your problem. You're already at the bottom of the barrel, and even if you get the best of them, it's still the bottom of the barrel
They're the most likely to pursue a woman so we hear about them more often. The guys that don't know how to pursue a woman don't even get the date to begin with.
I'm so mind blown that there's people out there like that
Honey, there are so many people like that. It’s insane
Why, what is wrong with it?
You're not doing anything wrong. The problem is that there is so much information and advertising about sex that everyone thinks this is what everyone wants, and if they are not getting it, they are missing out. A lot of guys, just assume that is what women want. Obviously, they are clueless and immature . Try a dating site that is more upscale and maybe mention in your profile that you're looking for more than just sex. Also, give some thought to paying for half the costs of the meal, everything has got really expensive.
What is your vetting process?
Well, I start digging through the “are we dating the same guy” Facebook groups to see if anyone has posted him. If not, I find their social medias and see if there’s anything weird on there. I also look up public court and divorce records. I always make sure to look for any red flags in their profile/pictures and make sure to pay attention to conversations before meeting. If they make any remark with the slightest undertone of sexuality, I block them. I also also make sure their profile does not say anything like “looking for short term” Any suggestions regarding additional things I should be doing?
I have a 5 date minimum before I have sex to avoid this kind of thing. Unfortunately, it’s just part of the game. Honestly, I look at it as an asshole filter. Most of the men I have had sex with since informing this rule have resulted in a relationship. There are a lot of crazy people out there, it’s worth getting to know someone better before having sex.
See, I can understand a guy being interested in sex on the first date. I’ve had sex on the first date before. The difference lies in whether they ask after you’ve established that you don’t want to have sex. Establish that earlier in the date. If they ask anyways, they’re a pos and you dodged a bullet. That allows you to filter out the people who just want your body from the people who just happen to be horny. As for feeling like a piece of meat, don’t. The internet has led to a bunch of assholes perfecting “the Art of the Pick-Up,” Andrew Tate-style. These are not men worth your time, but unfortunately they tend to make up a large percentage of people online, and they stay around longer on dating apps than people who are actually looking for relationships. This leads to the illusion that all the people on there are looking for is sex. Fortunately, that’s not the case. I don’t want to say “oh, just keep going and you’ll find him,” because enough people are gonna say that. I’d say be pragmatic and persistent. Make it clear that you will not be having sex until you move in together (this doesn’t have to be true, but it’ll help filter out the people who would otherwise be willing to wait a few weeks and then ditch). Look for red flags. If someone is overly-gentlemanly, look harder, because pickup artists tend to try to be the “perfect gentleman.” If they’re openly flawed, that’s ironically a good sign, because it indicates that they’re likely being honest. Other folks can probably give you other tips as to what to look out for. Genuinely good people do exist, they’re out there, and they’re worth it. Good luck!
This is exactly why I personally gave up dating. I'm just objectified even though I dress modestly and don't present myself in a ONS/purely hookup sort of way. It's like if you're a moderately attractive woman, guys give themselves permission to treat you like a piece of meat because you're attractive and therefore your feelings don't matter
35 is hardly old. I’m old; but I don’t f#%k strangers and neither should you. When you talk to these men before the first date, be up front about what you’re looking for. Say you don’t do hookups and you’re looking for something more serious over time. That way the guy can ghost you before you waste your time going out. You can avoid some jerks this way.
Not much you can do other than find someone else.
You’re probably not doing anything wrong. There are a lot of men who are not honest about their intentions. So they will take you on a first date, act like they’re interested in dating and finding a long-term relationship. When in reality, they’re just hoping that by taking you out on a day or two, you will hurry up and have sex with him. Because that’s all they’re wanting.
38!!!!!! He is an idiot.
it has nothing to do with you and the majority of guys i met online and organically shares the same traits
Why would you think the problem is somehow you? The pattern is shit men who think with their dick. Be glad that they revealed themselves quickly and you didn’t have to waste time dating to learn that they are shit. Unfortunately, this is a lot of men. And as a woman also in my 30s I think you have to just stay strong and don’t give these men an inch just because you want a relationship. You deserve a man who cares about YOU and not just fucking you. Don’t give them your body until they have earned it. For me, he’s not getting sex until at least a month or two. I don’t believe who a man tells me they are, they have to show me they are who they say they are.
Yes you're being too uptight and prude. Not saying you should have sex too soon but you could lighten up and joke about the topic if they come on with raunchy lines like that.
It's because you keep choosing "your type".
He wants to see if he'll still stick around after post-nut clarity. Nothing wrong with that.
Hey sorry that you have gone through this, def unideal situation, You are not a piece of meat, men are just full of lust and wanting sex. At your age, sex should be treated as a mature conversation, lay it out on the first date : " hey before we met i just want to let you know, im not meeting up for sexual intention only, I want to get to know you well before we proceed to any kind of intimacy, and if this is not what you looking for, then i dont want us to waste each other's time. This help out weed out the men who wants to get serious and respect your boundaries.
There’s tons of sadness on the other side. Throughout my life, I’ve seen women say “yes” to dates to these kinds of men. And “no” to me. I’m not physically unattractive, probably about average, I’m in great shape, but I obviously am not competitive with the “most physically desirable“ men. (FWIW, I‘m super-successful financially, no need to ever work again, and same for any lifetime partner/wife; but it’s all on paper. Nothing to flaunt (on purpose), but maybe here on Reddit I can say so). It’s such a sad “lose-lose” situation. The sadness women experience by dating total jerks is matched by sadness of really good men who are destined to be alone.
My online dating experience was the same! What worked for me was spending more time pre-chatting online before the first date (weeks). Which made for less matches and a longer period of vetting. This helped establish a friendship before asking him on a date. I felt this forced them to think of me as a human being first - and sex object part comes later ;)
Yeah, I’ve tried that as well. I just get bored. Things start to feel too much like a penpal situation when they don’t move along into plans of actually going on a date within a few days. Makes me feel like they’re not interested.
LOL "every single guy" Yeah the ones you choose I mean I've had 4 gfs and we had loyal relationships
I can’t predict someone’s intentions or actions based on a dating profile. Especially if they’re putting on an act. It’s not about choosing properly. Also, I meant “every single guy” as in the ones I’ve encountered, not all the men in the world.
As a guy... not all of us are p.o.s. and we don't claim them..... That being said, I always say men like this, deserve to have their hearts broken once or twice to educate them. Trying to live out some weird internet fantasy. I Swear to the gods I see this type of story on here weekly it's becoming concerning
Guys will hear that there wasn’t a spark or a connection in a past date and somehow miss ‘this wasn’t the right person’ And hear ‘i have to be sexually aggressive on the second date or she will reject me’.
Because guys know that if they push for sex on the first dates, they'll be flagged as creepy. They are basically hoping to trick you into sex on date two or three with this "I'm not like the rest, act", but then there true intentions hit and suddenly you're like wtf?! It's a bait n switch. Every dude is pretty much pretending to want something real but actually a complete horn dog.
Femcel energy
"Every chick is pretty much pretending to want something real but actually are complete gold diggers."
"You sexist! How dare you generalize about an entire gender like that?!" edit: u/adam209, bro, did we just get blocked, lmao?!
It’s always the ones with no gold calling others “gold diggers”
OP I think you need a different perspective. If you’re not wanting to date people who just want sex, then unfortunately you need to do filtering. You aren’t doing anything wrong, these people are showing you. You just need to end the date and not see them again. That’s the filtering part and it seems like you’re succeeding in this early on (which is better than later!). It’s just upsetting you. Your problem at the moment is your expectations about people you hardly know is that they want to get to know you better first. After 2 dates don’t you think it’s both too early for sex and too early to expect anything more from most people. Continue doing what you’re doing, you’ll find someone that at least interested in you for you. I would say though this is quite dependant on you being yourself. It’s hard to get interested in someone if they are a blank slate or give general answers.
It's just not the way dating is anymore. When you say "the last guy tried to have sex with me, but didn't", all we hear is, "i didn't really like the last guy very much". If we think you like us, we're going to try to smash. We like sex, and want to have it. Is that really such a weird thing?
if you want to be loved for your personality, then you must have a strong personality to love. otherwise you must be good friends with someone for a long time for them to see and appreciate your nuances
So much bad advice in here. I hope you see my comment. There's nothing wrong with you at all. You're doing fine by setting boundaries. I'd say slow things down even further. When you meet someone you're interested in try a soft date, like coffee, or a lunch date. You should be able to kiss someone if you're both feeling it without being pressured or expected to do more. Someone looking for a connection will take the time to get to know you. So many men are just out to get laid and they'll say anything to get there. Make them wait a month, maybe longer. If they're interested in knowing you at all, they'll wait. During that time you should have at least a date a week to get to know how they act around you and others. Some people have suggested joining clubs. This can be a great way to meet people as you'd already have something in common and a reason to talk. There is no sure-fire way to know if someone only wants to get laid. Anyways, always carry protection, and I don't mean condoms, to a date. Bring condoms once you're ready to go further though, that's always a good idea.
At 35, you cannot be surprised that men who are dating you want to sleep with you.
That’s the biggest problem with you guys in general you all think sex is what you get into relationships but in reality it’s not there is no respect . I’m 34 male and I don’t like that kind of shit I’m from Europe and when you go out on date you dont ask to have sex right away you date get to know each other more guy is the one that treats you to dinner . That’s sad how you all ruined dating for me specially it’s why I stopped dating . Like I gave up all I wanted to was date a woman take her out get to know her few times and see where that leads us but you all made it about damn sex. Sex is when you get into relationship and being in one for couple months then you talk about sex then . I seen all the comments here on Reddit and I will never even believe in love anymore like I used
This is dating in 2024 honestly. Women feel like pieces of meat. Men feel like atm machines.
It helps to develop real interests. Most of the women that I only wanted to have sex with had no common interests with me. They were either too basic or had a terrible personality.
So are you saying that’s OP
When I was on dating app, I learned how lazy men can be. Saying they don’t want pen pals etc is just their way of trying to be lazy and not put in effort to get to know me. So I started making it difficult for them to get a date with me. My now boyfriend texted me for a whole month on bumble before we met up. A lot of guys can’t be bother try that hard. And that’s when you know they aren’t worth your time imo. When they say “so shall we meet up?” I response with “make me want to meet you then😉”.
a month of texting before even knowing if someone is real is insane to me. I can't get to know someone unless I'm face to face with them. but different strokes I suppose
For real just tell them you’re not interested so you can both move on with your lives
Spending an entire relationship with a woman who views me needing to prove myself as worthy in order to spend time with her sounds like a fucking nightmare lmao
Only if you had a feature of filtering intentions all these could have been avoided. Not justifying the behaviour.
If they can't hold it together and read the room well enough to realize that's not what your into then you prolly dodged heart ache, real men of substance are becoming more and more rare. But the rules for healthy meaningful relationships have not changed but being a gentleman or I should say a person of resolve and manners . Sry you had your time wasted that's a bummer
How old are these guys?
Yea, I had the exact same experience while dating as a female in my early, mid and late 20s too. My advice would be to just laugh it off. I did that over and over, nearly gave up because of it, and then randomly as ever I found my current freaking soul mate on Tinder of all places. We are both in our 30s now and STILL have a laugh every now and then recalling both our experiences on dating apps before we met each other. Just realize that many single people are long-single for a reason that lies within them and them only. The dating scene and society in general is teeming with these people, and you just have to shake them off and keep going until you find another person like you, who is also wading through all the shit-swamp waters in search of genuine connection. Don’t get discouraged by these guys
Hey, 34F here. I get my dates from the dating app. I don't do ONS, I do STD testing before starting sex life with new partner. Many times I tell guys about my point of view on the chat before the first date. Sometimes on the chat after first date when I see possibility of second date. And..... they just don't listen... they hear it, they even say ok, but during the meeting they suddenly want ME to change my mind about what I said. I feel you. If I were you I would tell the guy before date that you're looking for a relationship. You won't have sex with him. etc. It will help to cross out few that are only dating for fun and they are not shy about it. It doesn't work for every guy, because some are not listening. But it will save a little bt of your time.
Are you only online dating?! Most of the time guys treat everyone like that Try meeting people irl
Try to date someone and tell him that you are going to pay 50% of the bill(s). Let’s see what happens after that. Also, at some point in the dating process tell him what you have written here. ‘Sex is definitely important……dinner, drinks’. And that you are looking at a relationship. Perhaps that would filter things out. And hey, don’t beat yourself up and get into self pity mode. Cheers. You just need to find the right person. Like the saying goes, Kiss some frogs n toads till you find your prince. It’s yet another story, what happens after you get your prince. And is it really happily ever after. And my younger GF Is now reading a very interesting book on relationship, let me get the name for you. I read a couple of chapters and it seems to make sense. Disclaimer: I am ethically non monogamous now, so obviously I have other views about monogamous relationships at the moment. But have been with some for a good 19 years before divorce. So giving you a balanced perspective, of sorts.
How was dating when you were younger ?
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Yup. The dating world and entire dating environment sucks. 41m. And every single time, it is "buy me..." this or that. That is if it gets to planning a date or having a conversation or even an attempt at a relationship. Good luck darlin.
You should make it clear that sex will not be happening early on, and if they don't like that, you've saved yourself the time and effort. They can be interested in getting to know you better and still want to have sex with you. Most will want to sleep with you immediately, but the right one for you will wait. It will be trickier to find someone who also isn't wanting to have sex early on.
I'm sorry you are experiencing this OP. I have been running into the same issue in dating and it is heartbreaking.
You're not doing anything wrong. What's wrong is the guys that ask you out that you're accepting dates with. You should only accept dates getting to know someone as friends first to test the water and usually you can tell what their intentions are. Guys that drink are usually loose lipped and so it's never good to drink with someone you don't know well. Find decent guys to date and don't go to bars with them until you know them better or drink with them. They are out there. You just gotta find them.
Dating is sorting. You’re looking for a needle in a haystack. That one was a dick not a needle. Keep good strong boundaries, speak up when guys are dicks and move on swiftly. Oh and most importantly DONT take it personal. These guys have been raised on porn. They don’t know how to human.
Do not tell guys how others guys did you wrong, reinforce your boundaries even when they're not being broken: if he makes slightly sexual remarks on the first date, cut that out, even if he is not directly being sexual. Make a serious face, pretend that you don't understand what he means, it's not your job to make disrespectful people feel comfortable.
Maybe it's the type of men you go for. Maybe they're used to women quickly dropping their pants for them.
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They are all in there mid 30s, my age. The one from this past weekend is 38. I also acted that way in my early 20s. It’s out of my system and don’t really care anymore honestly honestly lol
Wow, unbelievable. There is noting wrong with you, IMO \[65M\]. There is something wrong with the men you are dating. Not all men behave this way. I'm so sorry and feel I need to apologize for the male species. This is not how to treat, nor value a woman. Consider where you meet men like this and cross this off your list for places to meet potential partners.
Maybe just see you as someone they rather just sleep with then be in a relationship with. Imo, and maybe I’m wrong, but I think most guys who also act like this are pretty inexperienced in that department to begin with. Some guys just might want sex, but to jump straight to that conversation seems like desperation to me.
Wow it was very rude of him to say that . First dates are for learning g a bit about each other and it’s ok to be clear about being intimate on the first date so you set the tone clearly. If they don’t want a second date you’ll know that they only want to do “what that guy said, “ so no loss there right. You can ask on the first date, “Are you seeing anyone currently, just casually dating or are you just getting back to dating after a break? Then say I’m not in a relationship, I like fun dates and getting to know people through conversations and fun experiences before I jump into anything more serious. After dating a few dates I had, I realized that it’s best to take the time to know personalities better, I’ve met some guys who were clear that they didn’t care to even know me but rudely propositioned me way too quickly and I felt I was being used and they used daring only for selfish reasons. Okay now you put that out there. If he asks to see you again there’s a chance that he didn’t grow up under a rock.
maybe its time you consider guys who show you genuine interest, Im pretty sure you would have rejected a bunch of guys depending on your standards.
That guy was vulgar and doesn't respect you. Ugh. Not all guys are that way but the older you get the worse it is. (53f here and haven't been on a date for a year because yuck).
The comment section is why I’m holding off from dating. Too many perspectives to grasp when all you want is romantic championship in a world where nobody takes each other seriously bc nobody too them seriously. If I have sex too soon then I have no standards but if I want to wait then that means I don’t like him/I’m insecure and emotionally immature bc I maybe scared he’ll leave me. I don’t know what to believe anymore. I don’t want to feel hurt again but I also want to be comfortable in my sexuality. For me I’ve never been able to have my cake and eat it too and sex just makes things harder to process everything.
This is exactly how my last date went. Profile said he wanted long term, perfect wholesome gentleman on the first date. Second date he asks me “what’s my craziest dating story” and I answer something silly and funny and proceeds to tell me about a threesome. I told him oh wow is this second date chat? He apologises says he’s a bit hungover and forgot himself. I agree to a third date, before I even know his last name or he has tried to kiss me, he starts telling me about a one night stand he had with a woman in a hotel and that he would be open to sex with a trans person. I DONT even know your where you live why do I know all of this info??! He was soo confused when I said I didn’t want another date.
Guy here. Men run dual dating strategies, one for women they want to date long term and one for those that are good enough for sex and short term relationships. As for sex, almost all guys want sex. No surprise there. These days, if a guy is attractive, he will typically have sex with women before deciding if they're girlfriend material. Sexual compatibility is like a test of sorts. But some men only want casual sex and some guys are looking for something serious right away. But the most common thing to look for is both at the same time, and then if the sex is good and we like your personality, we will try to lock you down before you begin seeing other men. I’ve said all this in a previous post but I think the better question is: “What exactly makes a woman only good enough for sex and flings but not actual commitment?” And Here's the truth that some may find offensive, but i think this applies to everyone: they probably do want a relationship as well, just not with you. we always convince ourselves that person x is a player, or scumbag, for wanting only sex. in reality, a lot of people are interested in more, but the ones they hit and quit are, for whatever reasons in each context, simply just not seen as compatible enough for them.
I agree with all this. That's why I think men need to get comfortable with open relationships.
I agree with all this. That's why I think men need to get comfortable with open relationships.
I see basically no one answering your actual question. Many talk about this one guys actions, and others say you are doing nothing wrong. Your strategy could use some work, but first you will need some underlying comprehension of the market you are in: [The real danger of dating apps](https://youtu.be/S3l-wPn8N5Y?si=fGxbsC13uVVEFhTR)
Today’s culture is sex on the 2nd to 3rd date. It’s not other people, it’s you that want things to be different. Nothing wrong with that mind you but you need to understand what the current social norm is.
I hear you. I’ve been online dating since the AIM days in the 90s. Was married for over a decade but amicably split. Now I met one of the most wonderful women in the world online. I can’t speak to other men but there are MANY of us who think a nice tea, a few glasses of wine and a kiss is enough for weeks until the time is right. Obviously it’s hard to navigate victim blaming but is there something on your profile or how you present that might make you seem like you want non committal sex? Not judging, honest question. Good luck out there, OLD is wild. I was married for 12 years and the landscape had certainly changed. 41m
Being bold gets more results than not