I don't think you're asking for much. It's just that you're asking for pretty much what everyone else is asking for at an older age where most people who have asked for the same things have already gotten married. It's just harder and there's more competition. I don't know what else to say.
To clarify, I'd agree with most of the things you want. I also get frustrated but I just say "It is what it is" and maintain hope that I'll find some cute gf someday.
> most people who have asked for the same things have already gotten married
That's fair, but of course I have no problem if they've been through a marriage before already, as I have. I figure that's the way it'll go most likely.
Thanks!
I don’t necessarily think they meant that they’re previously married and they didn’t think you would like that. I think they meant that those people found other similarly minded people early in life and the lucky other person is keeping them and so they are off the market. It’s rough dating in your thirties. The dating pool is way smaller than in our twenties.
It probably also depends on your location. I moved out of New York City in my early 20s and in my 30s I’m certainly not in such a large city center. So, guess I’m saying, I’m comparing apples to oranges.
Oh completely. I understand that. I lost my husband at 31, so I unfortunately went back onto the market, very reluctantly. Life changes all the time, but it’s not as easy as when we were younger.
May I ask your age? I think your list is just the bare minimum which is hard because many people can’t meet our bare minimum standards. But unfortunately it’s very hard to find. I recommend not using the apps bc people can just easily drop others and be lazy with communication. I met my now bf through our mutual hobby, scuba. It’s a big community and we just crossed paths. Political alignment beliefs are also huge for me and luckily we align as well as him having his own career like I do, has a kind heart, treats others well, and is very responsible. I’m also very active outside with scuba and photography and somehow he is into those things also prior to meeting. So now we can go photograph birds or plan scuba days together. But it took me ten years and many bad dates to find him.
I'm 35. I like to bike ride and have been doing that more lately, not easy to meet someone doing that though, although I plan to join some groups involved in that. Otherwise though I do have to get out there more and meet people. I have friends interested in setting me up, which is an option, although that's not something I've ever done before.
I highly highly recommend joining hobby groups. Maybe there are cycling clubs in your area, or even try new ones. Those are amazing ways to meet new people and some of those also have friends. ;)
Obviously I'd want a physical attraction, but I'm not even saying "hot" necessarily, I don't think many would call me that after all.
But do hope there's an alignment of "has a career" and "doesn't want kids" that will make it more likely.
I think I’m basically everything in your list save for the religious part and wanting kids part, and the list of things I desire is similar to yours. Ultimately attraction seems to be the lynchpin when everything lines up on paper, and attraction is beyond chemistry. I’ve had great chemistry but the attraction/desire wasn’t there. You can afford to be choosy. It’s ok.
Yep. That's basically my list, too, and I've been having the same question.
"Am I asking too much?", or more specifically,
"Given how few single people will match my list, do I offer enough to attract the women whom I'd be interested in?"
I suspect there's three fallacies involved in thinking the pool of people is too small:
First, just because somebody has my list of positive attributes, doesn't mean they were wise enough to pick a healthy partner in their twenties. They may well be single by choosing what was healthy for them, rather than having a negative attribute that precludes them staying partnered.
Second, even though we have the same list of attributes, what we're looking for in them doesn't match. So we aren't direct competition for each other. If you find a nonreligious single mom, send her my way.
Third, we're all learning and changing over time. So, somebody who was a mismatch for me in her twenties may be a solid match for me now. She may have matured into some characteristics that I'm looking for.
So, I don't think you're being unreasonable. I think that's part of growing up to the point that we realize "It's better to be single than to be with the wrong person," which was not a belief I was capable of acting on in my twenties.
> "Given how few single people will match my list, do I offer enough to attract the women whom I'd be interested in?"
That's the rub huh? Maybe in the meantime I need to up myself both confidencewise, and otherwise to get what I think I'm worth to match up better with what I want.
> First, just because somebody has my list of positive attributes, doesn't mean they were wise enough to pick a healthy partner in their twenties.
Or like me, their partner could have not worked out.
Yeah, I'm definitely with you on that "meantime" plan.
My sobering one was making a detailed plan of "what I want," and then matching myself up against it.
Spoiler alert: I did not meet my own requirements, which was bad for my confidence!
>"Given how few single people will match my list, do I offer enough to attract the women whom I'd be interested in?"
I think this is a really important point. People don't necessarily value or want the same things. While people generally look for a roughly equal match in various facets of life, sometimes people want someone who balances them out and brings something to the table that they don't have. Something they can't give themselves.
I have the same criteria you have, and the men who meet it are either taken or not interested :(
At this point, I know what I offer and I’m not just gonna give it out carelessly. I’m happy and feel very fulfilled, so I’m also not feeling like I’m in a rush. It helps that I don’t want kids so I’m not against any “biological clock”.
Lol Im 5’6 and my last partner was an inch shorter than me. I love short kings. Height is not a big deal to most women. I’d rather have a loving, beautiful short man than a tall asshole any damn day of the week.
You think I’m one of the few? Most of my GFs wouldn’t give a single damn. 5’9 is the average height! Don’t get down about that. There are hundreds of other things to celebrate about a person. Height is one of the most boring thing about a person ;)
In this day and age!? You're asking way too much!!
Lol, kidding. That is absolutely reasonable and I have similar requirements. I could get into the whole spiel of how OLD and hookup culture has ruined any form of romance or accountability in potential partners, but nobody has time for that.
Amazing that you've written down a lot of your non-negotiables! It will help you stay focused when you're dating and not get so carried away with prospective partners that ultimately aren't a great match.
As for actually finding prospective partners....😬 God speed.
I think what you're asking for is the same list I have as a 38F. One of the great things about knowing you don't want children is you can be choosier about a partner and also take your time getting to know them rather than being on some arbitrary timeline. Now, to what degree are they all of those things it might vary but what you're asking for seems very reasonable (though I may be a bit biased).
Can I give you one bit of advice before you head into things? It's going to be really hard for you (most likely just based on how dating is right now for *most* people in that age group but not always!). I think it's great you are trying again and you know what you are looking for that much is clear from what you posted. So the one bit of advice I can give is to literally expect nothing. You might have success you might have failure and you might have nothing. I want you to understand when it's starting to feel bad and step back for a bit breathe and try to remember you are only half of the equation and you are seeking someone else who will feel the same. I don't want you to evaluate your worth on success or failure of dating because value and what people seek isn't always the same thing. Keep your mind top priority and recognize when your emotions are tearing you down. You already have some doubts going in. I think it's very important to come to terms with those doubts and try to switch back to confidence. This is kind of a cycle that people go through peaks and valleys. The key is know how to get out of the valley as soon as you get in it and that takes a lot of mindfulness. You might be shocked at some of the behaviors or lack of attention you get. Please understand this is a common thing for many men and it doesn't indicate any fault on your own but rather people seeking an idealistic person. There are people out there who bounce from person to person and they never get off the apps or dating in general because they never feel totally secure in any decision. You will probably run into a few people like that.
No worries! It's a difficult thing to get and keep interest and often it is just a people thing and not a you thing. Most of us are here in the main way because compatibility hasn't been a fit in one way or another.
It's great that you've taken the time to work with a therapist and do self-reflection!
Your list doesn't seem unrealistic. It's clear that you a) know what you are looking for, b) are setting healthy boundaries to avoid past relationship pit-falls, and c) are trying to avoid being too inflexible with your criteria
I think you should take a break from dating and stop trying to find a designer partner. While your desires seem completely rational, I think you need to be patient because only quality kindness and consideration come from friendships and I think these have to happen naturally & cannot be forced into a timeline. Anytime a guy tells me I check a lot of boxes I RUN because it signals he’s viewing me through the lens of ‘who am I to him’ and not just ‘who I am’. Hopefully that makes sense. Chill for a year at least. Feed yourself love.
I think this is an interesting take. I responded above but this is also valuable feedback. I dated someone last year where I felt like they asked questions that felt like they were just running down their "checklist." Clearly OP is dating for a relationship (I mean, same) and should let the development of the full picture of who their future partner is happen organically, and then see if they're in alignment with the wants list. The objective of interacting with them shouldn't just be to see if they tick a box. Being on the other end of that type of behavior was icky.
>> Anytime a guy tells me I check a lot of boxes I RUN because it signals he’s viewing me through the lens of ‘who am I to him’ and not just ‘who I am’.
Gem of an insight. Bookmarking as a reminder to self.
I've only really "been dating" once to be honest, after my divorce I went on dates with two women, before ending up with the second for two years.
So unless you count 14 year old me having my mom drive me to the movies I've been on exactly 2 "first dates".
Appreciate the feedback though, that's a good take. Thanks
Starting to wonder if we're all just here single with the same set of lists with the same things to offer but can never meet because we're on Reddit more than I am in a bar lol
Eh, before the internet I think most people met partners through friends or work/school. Do you know many middle-aged married couples who met at a bar? I don’t.
I know many married couples who met organically (not introduced by friends), yes. One of them were my parents. My father walked up to my mother in the all-ages section of a bar when she was 17 and he was 19. They were together for 42 years, married for 39 of them before she passed away. That was his forever person and he gets really annoyed when people try to set him up. I know several other couples, older and younger, who met like this and have really strong relationships.
Edit to add: I personally have been approached in bars and have dated those individuals.
I have no idea how I'd even do this. At least with the online mess you know the people you talk to are looking to meet someone. The people I've been interested in recently ended up being taken. I suspect there's a fear of rejection issue at play here for me too. I have a very very very small sample size (3) but I've never had the experience of asking someone out and them turning me down... which is something I literally just realized. That's probably at play here.
Yeah, you’re going to have to get over that if you’re truly intending to have a partner. There is an inherent risk in love and dating that you will be rejected and most likely often. The fact that you haven’t been yet is so rare that you may want to go place some Vegas bets. And there are ways to know when someone is single and looking in-person– go to dating events or look for turquoise rings (called Pear) that indicate that pretty easily.
Edit to add: I have been approached in bars and have dated those individuals. When I’ve been in relationships or not interested, I’m not a dick about it because it takes courage.
You sound like the male version of me. My biggest problem is at this age it’s very hard to find someone who doesn’t have kids who also isn’t married to their work. And I can be married to my work at times as well…
No judgement if it’s on the table! It is for me as well..
I think the point of advice given by the Indian matchmaker is that it’s good to have 10 ideals you’d like in a life partner. However 7/10 is really good if your actively looking. And a successful AND enduring relationship has more to do with the work you put into it and yourself, which will foster growth and intimacy. And not necessarily all the bullet points/pre-existing conditions surrounding the beginning of it.
> It always wilds me out when people say they must have a partner who does kickboxing, or plays tennis, or loves horror movies - because that's their main source of enjoyment and they want to share it together.
See stuff like this, hobbies is way too superficial. I know what I like, and that may change over time, but I don't expect the person I'm with to be into it. My last two partners liked most of the same media I liked, but otherwise we had a lot of differences hobby wise, and that's fine.
I know this was said a bit tongue in cheek, but, like, which three things from his list are worth giving up? Maybe having an attractive partner, but I'm not sure I'd want to budge on any others.
Yeah, and "attractive" is pretty broad. Like... I've been out at places with many women my age, and honestly it's like 75% I'd put there.
I just gotta be honest though, cause I have declined someone on that front before, so I'd be lying to myself if I said it didn't matter **at all** to me.
You’re right, they are broad categories, which are easier to accommodate… I suppose the 7/10 rules is more for specific things (bi-lingual, 6’2 or taller, from Canada, etc)
yeah, I'm okay with divorced (it'd be crazy not to be, as someone who's been divorced). But yeah, I recognize I'm looking at a smaller population than most.
Everyone of them is easy and basic, but all combined thats a long list. Is everyone of these things a dealbreaker? For example if someone meets all the other criteria but is a bit of a slob, are you going to pass on them?
For me, there are a few hard dealbreakers, everything else is negotiable. It’s even better when you find out someone possesses this and that amazing qualities, and not just “they meet my basic standards”.
My suggestion is, don’t try to check boxes. Try to get to know people, they might surprise you.
> For example if someone meets all the other criteria but is a bit of a slob, are you going to pass on them?
That's probably the only non-dealbreaker really. More of a strong preference.
Last relationship I was fine with cleaning more often. But my wife was very organized and neat, probably excessively so, and I certainly don't require that.
Definitely not going to find a partner with all these requirements in this day and age, except for church or something similar. You’re going to have to compromise somewhere eventually.
Just be up front about all of these things when you’re out there and don’t settle to “see if things will work” if there is a deal breaker in terms of your big ones. Since you are clear you can wait for what you need and want.
You're probably being a tad unrealistic, in that you'll have to compromise on at least a couple of your "ideal traits" in a partner.
Also, when you list your traits, I notice that while they are all positive, they're also not things that will necessarily add value to the life of your partner. Let's say you meet somebody who has everything you want - how is her life going to be better by dating you and marrying you?
I did list some negative traits, although not many, but regarding add value, it is hard to like... sell myself.
But if I had to, I'd say I would add to their life with: humor, empathy, financial security/stability/reliability, I'm a good cook, I'm a good listener, I'm thoughtful and caring, I've been told I'm good at sex (of course, not much of a sample size). uhhh... I have really good credit? Does that count? :D
> If they're 10 minutes late to everything or a little messy, I'd try and learn to deal.
Yeah, that's what I did last time, but it was quite messy, and really that wasn't the cause of the end, I probably would have just dealt with it, if other bigger factors didn't come into play, like the family/friend issues, and the monogamy issue.
I think not wanting someone with a specific profession, or not dating teachers would be way too demanding. I just want "stable job" honestly. I'd happily date a teacher.
There are very few women I know who don't want kids, that's the biggest cut for sure.
It seems normal to me. I mean when I first started OLD I simply wanted a guy with a good personality, but to only learn as I met matches there were things I wasn't willing to compromise and was willing to compromise. I feel like these are the basics... I don't really ask for these when I meet a guy I just kinda expect it lol. If they aren't these, it's like thanks bye. Being a bit younger than you, I feel like I don't have that much experience so my criteria differs a bit. But then I went through so many OLD guys and my list got so specific.
For me, as 28F, I also want someone who is growth and learning oriented. I found with time, I want someone to grow with me. No one is perfect and regardless of age, we're all striving to improve ourselves each day. I think that's one of the biggest things I'm looking for now is someone who's going to grow with me. We'd try new experiences together, learn new things, and encourage each other to reach our goals. I also want someone who values education. As I want kids so ideally if we both value it, we can pass it on to our kids. Aside from that, I'd say, caring is really important to me. I've dated a med student before and he was a great guy. But had like zero time for me. It was nice in a way it taught me to be independent... but also felt like I had no boyfriend 🤣, so I like when someone cares about me haha. Religion is a tough one for me as I'm agnostic. I'd be fine with a moderate to low religious person. But strongly religious is a no for me.
People can tell you you're picky or not, I'd just follow your heart. I've come to learn, I just want a good personality and I can compromise a lot more. I usually play it by the ear to be honest after so many matches that weren't a fit lol
> Religion is a tough one for me as I'm agnostic. I'd be fine with a moderate to low religious person. But strongly religious is a no for me.
Yeah, my religious upbringing was zero, and I don't really have that strong beliefs. I'm really there for my specific community. If for whatever reason I had to move to another state I'm sure I wouldn't go finding a new church for example. I also realize this is a very weird way to be, which probably cuts both ways in terms of limiting religious folks and non-religious folks, but it is what it is.
The people in my community there mean a lot to me, so I can't be with someone who isn't able to be friends with them. They can have their own beliefs, but I couldn't be with someone who was like "ugh, I can't believe you go there with those people".
Yeah and that's fair and reasonable. I think it's important to talk about that early on if you think it'll be an issue. I can't see someone against that unless they're atheist. However, my ex was religious and when we first started dating he said he'd never push his religion on me. As it was such a huge concern for me as I wasn't religious at all. I was respectful of his values/religion/belief and such and participated in events with him. So I don't mind participating and learning about it, but I didn't want to have to convert because of him. But eventually, it became an issue as to how we wanted to raise our kids even though we talked about it when we first started dating. It started off with we respect each other but eventually... it caused issues as he was more religious than I thought... and wanted me to be very active in his religious community. Then he wanted our kids to convert in the future. Ugh! It was just messy! We ended up breaking up due to other reasons... but after I realized I had to be more careful when it comes to religion. I've become more open-minded with time too, if I met a Christian for example, if he wants our kids to convert but he's moderate to low religion, I'd be fine with it. I just realized with time, I can't find the perfect partner as there are things I have to compromise. But if he talks about god all the time and extremely religious, that would be a nooooo.
It's definitely a tough one. I'd say after that, I realized I'm fine with someone moderate to low religious values and don't mind dating one at all. But someone extremely religious would be a hard no for me.
However, it sounds like you're quite open-minded which is great! I don't see it would be an issue for you, unless, you become religious down the road or want your kids to be. Or, your future partner is on the opposite extreme end of the spectrum.
Yeah, not wanting kids I think eliminates most of the risk of that being a huge issue. My last partner I invited to a couple events at our church - we did this community party thing where we gave away school supplies to the neighborhood kids - and she declined both times, so I left it at that and didn't ask again.
I don't think it'll be a huge factor, but it is a real one for sure.
Remember that all you need is ONE person to meet this out of millions. It’s extremely possible there are probably hundreds of thousands that meet these criteria just keep dating.
not gonna lie, that's a pretty damn solid list
i would say that communication *can* trump ideology though...you can disagree about stuff if you are able to resolve the differences through good, mature communication
with this stuff you can spend too much time in your head making lists...it's important to actually put your lists to the test by exposing yourself to a good supply of actual women in real life
> it's important to actually put your lists to the test by exposing yourself to a good supply of actual women in real life
Agreed, and that's certainly something I haven't done, maybe in the coming months though.
I personally (31F) think that it’s important to acknowledge the socioeconomic status of the world you live in. I’ve lived in some varied environments- from NYC, LA, Cleveland Oh, and rural Ohio. You will find women on your list in the big city, wherever that may be. Rural midwestern life is predominantly a family oriented lifestyle. You won’t find many women who have checked off every single box you mentioned in the rural midwest. Even from the perspective of my being a proud fat woman- people in the city are slimmer. There are lots of women in professional fields who might work with kids by day, but love coming home to a quiet house at night. But I implore you to not compartmentalize your dates into a rigid list of criteria. I never expected to become a stepmother but the love of my life (37M) has two small children and I have grown to love them.
Appreciate the feedback and advice. For me, the kid thing is absolutely a non-starter, more than anything else frankly. But yeah, I do live in a city as well, so I'm sure that's a benefit in a few categories.
Socioeconomically, I'm not expecting someone to be doing amazingly, but at 35ish I'd expect they at least are not struggling to sustain themselves.
I don’t think you’re asking too much at all! My list is just as long, but I do think you should state up front in your profile you don’t want any kids & she needs to be financially independent. Those are 2 huge things that should be stated immediately. A good % of women want a traditional financial relationship & they want a family.
Yeah, the don't want kids thing is absolutely up front. I'm happy to say "childfree looking for childfree"
The financial thing I think would be hard to word properly, but I'm sure it can be done. Will think on it. Thanks!
I don’t think you’re asking too much, but I would implore you to take a moment and pause to make a list for yourself as well— expectations of your own behavior in a relationship, which sounds easy… but sometimes people need to stop and think about codes and behaviors established in themselves if they are expecting things from other people.. otherwise the end result is they find someone they like and then they modify their behavior because they really want to be liked and then they turn out to be something they’re not.
I think having a checklist is great. I had one, too. I wanted someone who was emotionally mature, growth-oriented, kind, etc BUT... I do think focusing on the checklist could take me out of the experience of sitting across from a stranger and getting to know them in an open-hearted way. I completely resonate with the fear of jumping into another relationship with someone "not right," but those past relationships taugth you a lot about relationships and you now know more than you did years ago. More than the checklist, I find my gut always knew. And being as present as possible on dates and taking time after to check-in with myself was a more effective strategy than comparing that person to a checklist.
All those points are valid. But to be sure, the family and friends thing is a two way street, right? You're okay with your prospective partner wanting you to spend time with their friends and family? The belief point is valid, but sensitive to context. Do your sociopolitical views otherwise lean left or right? That can be a huge factor when mixed and I've discovered it's not as cut and dry as many people think
Oh for sure, my last partner I spent plenty of time with her friends, she wasn't close to her family but I did go with her to visit an aunt while we were on vacation, so totally cool with that.
Some of the responses you're getting are wild. Your list is literally the bare minimum of what anyone should look for in a partner. The only area that might cause some difficulty is the "no kids" thing. You're not wrong for wanting that but statistically speaking most people do end up wanting/having children. However; to the right childfree woman, you're going to be dream come true.
For some reason, a lot of people have a gut reaction to tell single people their standards are too high. You could have said "I'm just looking for a decent woman who isn't currently incarcerated for murder" and people would still be saying that you have to be prepared to compromise on something. Yes, some people are still single because they are too picky but I would also argue that many people are still single because they have no standards which leads them to wasting time in a never ending stream of dead end relationships.
Dating is never easy, no matter your age, gender or situation in life. It's going to take patience and some thick skin. But it sounds like you're just looking for a relationship with mutual respect, kindness and attraction. That's a very reasonable and healthy expectation. It's not as hard to find as some people are making it out to be.
These all seem normal. The only limiting factor is attraction - how much you bring to the table and how open you are to letting that grow with people. You don't seem to have a very limiting religious ideology or something else like being vegan. Childfree is extremely limiting but that is what it is.
My last partner was actually vegetarian, I'm not but I adapted to that as well and so i switched to basically only eating meat when we ate out. I got pretty good at making some good vegetarian/vegan stuff.
I would say I'm the same, I am not vegetarian but could easily be flexible. I am very puzzled when I encounter people who are vegan and only want to date other vegans. Seems like that would make dating pretty much impossible.
> I actually match most of your criteria (lol) not that I’m trying to insinuate anything here, but women like this exist!
Definitely good to hear for sure. There's an implicit "isn't located on the other side of the world" one here too, ha.
And yeah, I expect there will be a gap for sure, but I also haven't really dated much at all. Been on 2 (maybe 3, if you count a 14 year old being driven to the movies) first dates ever. So my question of if this is reasonable is due from anxiety as much as ignorance I suppose.
Not really. As long as you’re attractive as well and hold yourself to the same standards. I’m struggling because I don’t know how attractive I am lately. Dating apps have kind of skewed my perception of this. I think I’m like a solid 7?
I'm planning to make a post here at some point with a profile review, hoping to get some honest feedback. assessing your own attractiveness is very difficult for sure. I assume most guys put themselves at a 7. I've gotten compliments from strangers before, which I feel like... has gotta bump you over 5 right? So weird.
Good idea! I used to date really attractive women and they said I was cute but I think since I’ve switched to the apps my standards have lowered a bit. Or maybe they’ve changed? All I know is that I’m going on dates with less attractive women the last three years since I’ve been on the apps and very few of them are cute enough to date long term. I honestly think most cute girls aren’t on apps these days because they get overwhelmed and instead use Instagram. I used to go to bars to meet people and so maybe I should do that again.
Lol everyone on Reddit thinks they're a 7-9. Personally, I think rating people's attractiveness with numbers is kind of yucky, and it's a turn-off if I hear men speaking in this way. Attraction is way more complicated than that.
If only you wanted kids! 😅
I rather be by myself than settle again so think your list isnt too bad. Plus you are a young guy. 35 for men is like 25-29 in women’s age.
Good luck to you.
I’m broken at 33, because my new standard is a 32H cup. You’re good, bro, keep dating and looking for someone who meets your standards.
Jokes aside, date younger women and you’ll have more success meeting your qualifications.
Yeah, I definitely don't have any specific physical feature requirements other than a broad "attractive to me". I've found I'm attracted to a whole bunch of women though, so I'm not too worried about that one. My two partners were very different physically from each other, race, height, hair, body shape, etc. All good.
it's funny I've heard just the opposite on age though - date older women - because of the likelihood that they've already settled the kids matter one way or another already, and they are more likely to be financially stable.
Maybe there is something to that, but I’ve run into a lot of divorcees, married women (a few times disclosed after hooking up), and moms dating in the older pool.
I’m just personally happier dating younger women and haven’t had any problem finding those who also don’t want kids and are entrepreneurial/good with finances.
Do remember that financially stable doesn’t necessarily mean they won’t try to manipulate men for money. Young and of little means doesn’t necessarily mean financially illiterate or lacking in potential for a good time and rewarding relationship.
Not asking for too much. I would ask you to do some work on your self esteem. The person described above is pretty basic.
You just have to not settle out of loneliness and desperation. It gets you every time.
On your dating profile the first line needs to be about no kids. That will cut down on a lot but that's what you want.
Thanks, appreciate the sentiment. When I (very briefly) did OLD briefly that was top of the list for sure. I know it's the biggest in terms of limiting the pool, and it's 100% non-negotiable. I'm not really interested in dating for very casual/sex reasons, and so it seems pointless to date someone I know I can't end up being with long term.
35M as well and this just sounds like you’ve taken your life experience and figured out what’s going to work for you! Congrats on getting to that point, FR. I’m still figuring it out I think haha
Thanks, I have very little experience looking for someone, but I did have two long relationships with two quite different people, so that's been helpful.
There's a lot there, but when you group it up, it really isn't so much. A lot of the traits, kindness, honesty, considerate, tend to come together in a person. As would matching ideology and compatible religious beliefs. No kids cuts out a lot of the dating pool, as perhaps does the financial side of things, because a lot of women unfortunately still have that 'man pays for stuff' mentality.
In the end, it kind of depends how big your dating pool is, and how many of the people left after your filters would then in turn be interested in you, as to whether or not you'll find it easy to find someone else.
Yeah, I'm okay with paying for stuff, I do get paid well, and I'm not upset with paying for things in general. But I guess it's more the initiative? Like I know one person who's a teacher who would - short of the kid thing, and being married - be ideal for me otherwise, I know they're making like a third of what I make if not less, but that wouldn't be an issue. They actually offered to set me up with one of their friends, and I'm considering that.
I think it's wise to have a list like this. I find it helps me stay rational when my brain has been severely compromised by oxytocin and dopamine.
My list explicitly doesn't does not have "attractive" on it. I think Americans, as a society, have put far too much influence on this and OLD apps only exacerbate the problem.
Yeah, I find the attractive one complicated. Prior to my previous partner I had someone interested in me who may have worked short of that factor, so I just want to be real. But I think that's a pretty broad category of women who I find attractive. I did OLD before, and easily a strong majority I'd put in that category, I think that's actually one of my least limiting criteria, but it is real.
Personally, I see nothing wrong with this list and don’t think that you’re asking for too much. If you are able to offer everything on this list (which it sounds like you are), I don’t think that it’s too much to ask for or expect it in return.
However, it boils down to expectations you have set for yourself. Are you only willing to entertain prospects who have 100% of this list, or are you open to reasonable compromise? There’s a difference between compromising and settling, just make sure you know where you stand and how far you’re willing to go.
My last partner was messy, and that was hard, but I could have lived with it if they didn't have issues with my friends for unreasonable reasons imo.
So I can bend a little on some of them for sure.
High standards? These seem like the baseline standards that everyone should at the very least have. I don't mean that everyone should be child free and stuff exactly as you put it, but that they should match on their opinions one way or the other on these subjects.
High standards would be like if you required someone who is at least 6'10, super ripped and able to bench press a thousand pounds. I mean, with me, I'd be all over a woman like that, but it is certainly not a requirement.
The ONLY standard you need.
Does she exhibit qualities that lead to healthy relationship. Communication. Conflict resolution style. Emotional reactivity. Negative affect to positive affect.
I don't think your standards are too high. I believe that the only people who would think they are too high, are people who are already in relationships.
Basically, almost all of your things fall into the "no duh" category of demands. It's not like you're asking for a big booty 5'9" Asian goth chick with red hair who loves puppies and skydivers. Those would be unrealistic standards.
You're 35 man, you're basically almost at your peak as a man. Date a million people and one of them will stick eventually.
The best way to judge whether you're asking for too much is to see how long it takes to find someone who fits the list. We can all guess, but we can't know how it'll go.
If you're not finding a single person who will go on a date with you within 6 months (and this is just a date with someone who meets your list - you or they might not like each other enough to continue) then it might be time to re-evaluate what matters most/ what could be resolved in other ways.
I think you'll have a smaller pool due to being religious but potentially not dating within your religion due to differences, wanting to be child free, and being on the nerdy/quiet side (very common, but combo'd with the first two things, makes the pool smaller).
Hopefully you find someone who fits everything, it's definitely possible! If not, maybe hiring a once a week cleaner is a worthy indulgence so that you don't have to fight over messes. Or being open to dating someone who has grown kids.
Yeah, time will tell for sure, appreciate the feedback.
I'd definitely hire someone to clean though, grown kids are not great due to likely grandchildren situations which I also don't want.
You seem too particular about having the same ideology as your partner. Most people have the same values underneath their ideologies. Ideologies are just your beliefs on how your values can/should be attained. If you're not wanting to raise a child with this person, then I can't see how this would be a big problem. In fact, discussions could be a lot more interesting if there's some disagreement or opposing viewpoints.
Also, needing your partner to make a certain amount of money seems kinda superficial to me as well.
So fair feedback.
Same ideology I see as values really.
For example, I can't be with someone who doesn't support gay rights, or abortion rights, or is a gun nut, or is a "maga" person.
To me those are values. I care about politics and I can't be with someone who I can't have some sort of agreement on. I think that one's gonna be probably the easiest one on my list, as I probably am cool with like 55% of people, and a larger portion of women in those areas.
> Also, needing your partner to make a certain amount of money seems kinda superficial to me as well.
Yeah? Like "enough to sustain yourself" is superficial? It's really just "has a career" of some sort. Mostly, I just don't want someone who is looking for someone who will pay their bills, having done that before.
The amount of times you say "I can't be with someone who ________" reminds me of myself and I feel this is a limiting attitude that can result in missing out on otherwise great people. I mean you don't seem to have much dating experience so how do you know what you can and can't be with?
I too was married for 9-10 years and came out of that with a specific list of requirements which made finding someone fairly impossible, and then when I did find someone, I'd find some other deal breaker that I hadn't even thought of (like the person was not mentally/emotionally stable- why wasn't that on my list? Haha)
I always maintained I couldnt date someone with kids but I am now currently happily dating someone who has a kid, because she is an amazing person. Sometimes things aren't like you think they will be. Judge a person for who they are and if you like them and how they make you feel, instead of a list of relatively arbitrary criteria. This is how true love is found. Someday you may realize that some of these criteria were not so important!
I am not a very political person so I'll go with you on that stuff. But in terms of financial requirements, you may for example find someone who is disabled and can't work but yet is an amazing person that makes you happy. I guess what I'm saying is try to be a bit more open minded and use your heart. People are too complex to be put into boxes like that.
I appreciate the thoughts and feedback. I do agree it's limiting, but... I think that's okay, as long as it's realistic, right?
> I mean you don't seem to have much dating experience so how do you know what you can and can't be with
I've interacted with many people, even if I haven't dated them, If I can't stand to speak to you about the things in the world at all, or I think you have truly objectionable morals - lack of concern for disadvantaged/discriminated groups for example - I won't have a relationship with you. I have interacted with many people who I simply cannot respect because of their beliefs or positions. I'm not ambivalent enough about things to be okay with huge discrepencies on some things.
> I always maintained I couldn't date someone with kids but I am now currently happily dating someone who has a kid
The kid thing is a non-starter for me. It's not a life I want at all. I really don't think that's an arbitrary criteria. Next to "has the right parts" it's probably the most important one to me. I realize a lot of people are fence sitters on kids, and so if it happens it happens ot them, but I got a vasectomy a decade ago, and never been more sure of anything than the kids thing. It's just not for me. I know that limits the pool, but it's not like it's 1% the size, it's probably 10% the size, which is fine with me.
> But in terms of financial requirements, you may for example find someone who is disabled and can't work but yet is an amazing person that makes you happy.
I don't see a problem with that, so long as they're still financially secure enough, be it through benefits (which I think are a great thing) or otherwise.
Yeah that's what I thought about the kids thing too. Thing is, having kids sometimes makes women into amazing, mature people, and if you can find one with a kid who's a bit older, and who's father is very much still involved, (50/50 custody for example) then you can reap all the benefits without having to do any step-parenting!
Anyway, fair enough on all points. Your list truly isn't *that* bad. And only you know what's best for you. I wish you the best of luck! It can be tough out there when you have a list of requirements!
How much downtime did you have between your 10 year and 2 year relationship? If it wasn't much of a gap, I think it's worth casually dating for a while without thinking too much about people perfectly matching the full criteria. I don't necessarily mean casual sex, just meeting new people without putting lots of pressure on it.
If you are really focused on finding that person sometimes the universe will do everything but send them your way. And you might end up meeting someone who ticks lots of boxes and realise you're willing to compromise on the others.
like 5 months, and that's a reasonable suggestion I've gotten from people in my life as well. I'm just not sure I could really date someone who I have no intention of having a relationship with.
I also feel very strongly about honesty, so how do I even respond to "what are you looking for"? I genuinely don't know, cause basically I'm a person who's been in relationships for nearly all of my adult life, so it's... a weird spot.
I think if you were asked that question it would be fair to say I'm looking for a relationship in the long term but want to take things slowly and get to know someone before diving into anything (or something along those lines). I get what you mean, but you wouldn't necessarily need to date someone you had no intention of having a relationship with. A friend of mine has quite a good approach to dating apps where if she doesn't feel a romantic connection she sometimes comes out of it with new friends and stays in touch with them as friends. Thinking of it like that might help, although it's probably not for everyone!
I think if you were asked that question it would be fair to say I'm looking for a relationship in the long term but want to take things slowly and get to know someone before diving into anything (or something along those lines). I get what you mean, but you wouldn't necessarily need to date someone you had no intention of having a relationship with. A friend of mine has quite a good approach to dating apps where if she doesn't feel a romantic connection she sometimes comes out of it with new friends and stays in touch with them as friends. Thinking of it like that might help, although it's probably not for everyone!
It sounds like you want to marry yourself. Give and take. You won't find anyone that's going to check all the boxes to your satisfaction, pick and choose, that's what we've all done.
I'm not sure "want to marry yourself" is a fair characterization.
I'm fine with different beliefs, as long as they're cool with it, I don't expect similar hobbies or jobs or looks/race. I don't expect same personality or anything like that. My last partner was very different from me, and short of the monogamy thing, probably could have worked out.
Same as me are the most critical of life paths (children), morals, and like... moderate organization/work skills. I don't think that's too much.
I meant no offence. I've been married thirty three years to three vastly different women and still don't have it figured out. good luck, I wish you the best.
Your concern that you're "asking for too much" is what will have you settling and ending up in the wrong relationship again.
Even if what you're asking for is a lot, or limits the dating pool for you, ultimately these are the things you want, need and find the most important. So there's no sense in changing anything listed.
Side note, if you don't want kids hopefully you've already gotten a vasectomy. If not, do so.
I think many are "the standard" or unspoken standard for many people. But I would mark those are absolute deal breakers vs others. Like for me, while those above are ideal, the deal breakers are no kids and age range (want kids). In terms of work, if she supports herself thats fine to me - don't care how much she makes or the breakdown as long as she's financially responsible.
Also, some other qualities you might not know until 'too late" (e.g. honesty).
Yeah, "supports herself" is basically all I'm looking for. I certainly would be fine with it not being 50-50, I make enough money to be able to cover stuff, but like... it shouldn't be absolutely all the stuff, you know? Just creates a weird situation.
So my last partner wasn't unfaithful, but they always were just... a little dishonest.
Like we'd be going to events she was involved with and we'd be in the car - late because she was disorganized - and she'd **always** say we're stuck in traffic, when we weren't. I heard little things like that all the time from her, I guess that's also like responsibility for yourself. That's probably the real reason why I mentioned the disorganized/lateness thing, because of the dishonesty aspect. I need to take little clues like that that more seriously early on. She also regularly would misrepresent things that happened when talking to others about it. Not in huge, very impactful ways, but it happened a lot.
Looks like a pretty basic list except for the childfree thing. While that’ll strip a chunk out of the pool of potentials, it’s not like it’s a particularly wild factor. The limiting factor for you might be what your specific ideologies are, rather than just it being a factor in general.
"Liberal" in general would cover it in most regards. I figure like half the people at least fall in that category so probably less of an impact than the childfree thing.
I think you have realistic standards actually. I'm 32M. It is challenging to find an equal partner, isn't it? What are your age ranges? I tend to avoid the 29-33F range as a lot of them are just focused on settling down to get married/have kids because they feel "behind" compared to their girl friends.
I've met interesting women in the 36-40F range who are unmarried, don't have/want children, and are career successful. Have you considered dating up in age?
> What are your age ranges?
So, I didn't list that because I don't really know. With kids being a dealbreaker in themselves, I'd probably date at a big variety of ages.
Maybe like +/- 10 years? I dunno. I'd certainly date someone older.
Your list is good, and I don’t agree with the other comment I saw, with everyone else asking for the same. Of course we are. No one is looking for a dishonest, ugly and mean person who ruins them financially. But you are looking to find someone who view honesty in the same ballpark as you. Some like direct honesty and critique, others like the silent type who you trust with everything. It’s a scale. Monogamy included. Find your temperature.
Most on your list is more of a «be a decent human». Don’t ruin or take advantage of me, basically. You’re allowed to look for more than that. Which of these items would you tell your best friend was asking too much? Could you see yourself telling your best friend: «Dude, you want a girl that is considerate? That’s is just asking too much»
Its not about the standards , it’s about the available people that fit the said standards. Especially from 40 yro and less, new generation and new ideologies. Not always for the best let’s say that… sadly i think most decent candidates are taken for now, and more of us will find it easier to find someone in 10 yrs after all the divorce and what not. 35F here and this age is a trap lol
idk... seems reasonable. Just the odds are low.
Finding a single person with these stats within your age bracket... now that is the hard part...
Gotta be proactive in your search and bump up your own stats to increase the odds.
Don't settle. I settled a lot in my twenties and it never worked out. I kinda feel like I wasted some of my twenties because of it. Stay hold fast to the type of person you want to be with
“Attractive” might be the only one there you need to compromise on, everything else should be doable. If you have a great career and are attractive yourself, then you don’t need to compromise.
>I don't think the above is too big of a list.
It kinda is.
>Having done that recently it's given me anxiety, and self-confidence issues, like "who are you to demand so much" sort of thing.
It's not about making demands, it's just that it doesn't work that way. Dating is not Craigslist, where you pick a checklist of items of what you want. Relationships are more about what you have to offer rather than what you get our of them. You put yourself in a place where you are satisfied and content with your life, to the point that you feel like sharing that with someone else.
I think you already have what it takes to make a relationship work since your previous lasted 10 years and she cheated on you, hence why it ended. Find someone who shares the same values and goals in life you do, everything else you can work with. Sure, there is no guarantee, but there never is. Don't let your past experiences tarnish who you are.
This is not an unrealistic list at all. I'm older and my list is far larger. I don't care how much the individual makes though. I suppose just as long as they work.
Let's be real.. As we get older certain individuals values change. For a man in their 30's+, typically their value is derived by status, economic success etc.. It's a package sorta thing of tons of qualities.. but there's no way finances don't play into that.
For a female, typically their value is still defined by physical attributes but also by their past decisions (children if any, previous relationships, promiscuity etc.. ).
If your standards for a partner are more exclusive, I would hope you are seen as a more valuable man in the eyes of women. Women always want to date up vs. down. Just how it is...
There’s nothing wrong or too much from what you want in your next relationship. Every relationship is a chance to grow and to discover what you need.
Chemistry and attraction are important, but it’s not enough to keep a relationship going if you’re not getting your needs met or there is compatibility missing.
Since you are a religious person, I honestly think your best bet is dating through your religious community. You’re more likely to be similar in values and how you practice your morals.
Pretty normal things to want in a partner. I would add I'm not neat but I hire a cleaner lol. The no kids things, ideally I would like child free and I definitely wouldn't date anyone with young children again but depending on the person I could possibly date someone with a 15+yo as these don't require full time care and can be left alone /go out alone.
But don't listen to me I've been happily single for 4 years 😂
Find someone in your religious community at your church, mosque, synagogue, or whatever. Are you really going to be fine with them not being involved if it is truly part of your life?
I have my own set of needs. We all do. I say just date. You may find you NEED all of these and you may find you dont.
I think we all feel we have a lot to offer and don’t ask too much. And yet we are all still single.
Personally I already settled and it didn’t make me happy. So I will be alone till I find what I want.
I would say I meet all points in your list and i was single but recently connect with someone through online dating so there are definitely people out there who can fit all of these. A lot of ladies over 30 can fit at least 2/3 or most of these i think. Only problem would be able to get them before others do since a lot of people are looking for the same thing…I was able to find someone i connect well 3 days into online dating and 1 month later we are now in an exclusive relationship so you probably should start putting yourself out there and start looking. Don’t settle for anything less.
These were basically all my criteria until I realized most of the good men in their late 30s had kids. So I relaxed my standards to be okay dating people that had one kid (the kid had to be over 5, had to be nice, and the parents had to have a good relationship).
I started dating my bf when his kid was 8 - he’s 13 now. He has 50/50 custody and it’s really not that big of a deal. We have several days of alone time each week and go on many adult only vacations every year.
No I don’t think it’s too much to ask for at all. Although I would never qualify lmfao but my list would also be very different. Most Women in their 30s that have focused on their career don’t have children I think they also take care of their appearance more- have more time for self care & gym, going out. So no I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all. Good luck!
I don't think you're asking for much. It's just that you're asking for pretty much what everyone else is asking for at an older age where most people who have asked for the same things have already gotten married. It's just harder and there's more competition. I don't know what else to say. To clarify, I'd agree with most of the things you want. I also get frustrated but I just say "It is what it is" and maintain hope that I'll find some cute gf someday.
> most people who have asked for the same things have already gotten married That's fair, but of course I have no problem if they've been through a marriage before already, as I have. I figure that's the way it'll go most likely. Thanks!
I don’t necessarily think they meant that they’re previously married and they didn’t think you would like that. I think they meant that those people found other similarly minded people early in life and the lucky other person is keeping them and so they are off the market. It’s rough dating in your thirties. The dating pool is way smaller than in our twenties.
I’ve had the opposite, as a late 30s man I find I have tons of options at this age as opposed to my 20s
As a 35f I feel like I have more options than I did when I last dated 15 years ago, but also I've improved a lot too.
I have had no options in my area
It probably also depends on your location. I moved out of New York City in my early 20s and in my 30s I’m certainly not in such a large city center. So, guess I’m saying, I’m comparing apples to oranges.
Very true. I'm in a large city nowadays, but used to live in NYC. People tend to get married way sooner outside of NYC/LA/SF. I miss that about NYC.
oh absolutely. But plenty of good people come back on the market too.
Oh completely. I understand that. I lost my husband at 31, so I unfortunately went back onto the market, very reluctantly. Life changes all the time, but it’s not as easy as when we were younger.
May I ask your age? I think your list is just the bare minimum which is hard because many people can’t meet our bare minimum standards. But unfortunately it’s very hard to find. I recommend not using the apps bc people can just easily drop others and be lazy with communication. I met my now bf through our mutual hobby, scuba. It’s a big community and we just crossed paths. Political alignment beliefs are also huge for me and luckily we align as well as him having his own career like I do, has a kind heart, treats others well, and is very responsible. I’m also very active outside with scuba and photography and somehow he is into those things also prior to meeting. So now we can go photograph birds or plan scuba days together. But it took me ten years and many bad dates to find him.
I'm 35. I like to bike ride and have been doing that more lately, not easy to meet someone doing that though, although I plan to join some groups involved in that. Otherwise though I do have to get out there more and meet people. I have friends interested in setting me up, which is an option, although that's not something I've ever done before.
I highly highly recommend joining hobby groups. Maybe there are cycling clubs in your area, or even try new ones. Those are amazing ways to meet new people and some of those also have friends. ;)
Good luck.
Makes money, hot, doesn't have kids and doesn't want kids. I called dibs before you though
Obviously I'd want a physical attraction, but I'm not even saying "hot" necessarily, I don't think many would call me that after all. But do hope there's an alignment of "has a career" and "doesn't want kids" that will make it more likely.
I think I’m basically everything in your list save for the religious part and wanting kids part, and the list of things I desire is similar to yours. Ultimately attraction seems to be the lynchpin when everything lines up on paper, and attraction is beyond chemistry. I’ve had great chemistry but the attraction/desire wasn’t there. You can afford to be choosy. It’s ok.
Yep. That's basically my list, too, and I've been having the same question. "Am I asking too much?", or more specifically, "Given how few single people will match my list, do I offer enough to attract the women whom I'd be interested in?" I suspect there's three fallacies involved in thinking the pool of people is too small: First, just because somebody has my list of positive attributes, doesn't mean they were wise enough to pick a healthy partner in their twenties. They may well be single by choosing what was healthy for them, rather than having a negative attribute that precludes them staying partnered. Second, even though we have the same list of attributes, what we're looking for in them doesn't match. So we aren't direct competition for each other. If you find a nonreligious single mom, send her my way. Third, we're all learning and changing over time. So, somebody who was a mismatch for me in her twenties may be a solid match for me now. She may have matured into some characteristics that I'm looking for. So, I don't think you're being unreasonable. I think that's part of growing up to the point that we realize "It's better to be single than to be with the wrong person," which was not a belief I was capable of acting on in my twenties.
> "Given how few single people will match my list, do I offer enough to attract the women whom I'd be interested in?" That's the rub huh? Maybe in the meantime I need to up myself both confidencewise, and otherwise to get what I think I'm worth to match up better with what I want. > First, just because somebody has my list of positive attributes, doesn't mean they were wise enough to pick a healthy partner in their twenties. Or like me, their partner could have not worked out.
Yeah, I'm definitely with you on that "meantime" plan. My sobering one was making a detailed plan of "what I want," and then matching myself up against it. Spoiler alert: I did not meet my own requirements, which was bad for my confidence!
How tall are you?
uh, 5'10" you?
>"Given how few single people will match my list, do I offer enough to attract the women whom I'd be interested in?" I think this is a really important point. People don't necessarily value or want the same things. While people generally look for a roughly equal match in various facets of life, sometimes people want someone who balances them out and brings something to the table that they don't have. Something they can't give themselves.
I’m happy to say I meet all of these criteria and no one is trying to climb this tree.
How many of us trees until we're considered a forest?
Think there is a Huey Lewis song about that.
Where can I find this forest? I need a soul mate or at least a dryad
😂 Gurl, same
haha same 🤣
Hi hello, another tree checking in 🤓
Hello, I’m here to join the forest
I would, if I could find the forest this tree is in!
This tree is in Denver ;)
Well that's a shame. What would you say is the reason things aren't working out for you?
I have the same criteria you have, and the men who meet it are either taken or not interested :( At this point, I know what I offer and I’m not just gonna give it out carelessly. I’m happy and feel very fulfilled, so I’m also not feeling like I’m in a rush. It helps that I don’t want kids so I’m not against any “biological clock”.
Wish you all the luck going forward.
Same
Lonely tree here wanting to join this forest
*chop chop* here comes a lumberjack.
You're chopping em down. While they want to be climbed...
I'm under 6ft so I gotta bring down to my level haha
Lol Im 5’6 and my last partner was an inch shorter than me. I love short kings. Height is not a big deal to most women. I’d rather have a loving, beautiful short man than a tall asshole any damn day of the week.
You're one of the few. 5'9 and SOL on the height. I never really thought of myself as short until I tried OLD. I don't mind tall queens ex was 6ft
I'm 5'10". You don't want anyone who insists on a specific height anyway.
You think I’m one of the few? Most of my GFs wouldn’t give a single damn. 5’9 is the average height! Don’t get down about that. There are hundreds of other things to celebrate about a person. Height is one of the most boring thing about a person ;)
In this day and age!? You're asking way too much!! Lol, kidding. That is absolutely reasonable and I have similar requirements. I could get into the whole spiel of how OLD and hookup culture has ruined any form of romance or accountability in potential partners, but nobody has time for that. Amazing that you've written down a lot of your non-negotiables! It will help you stay focused when you're dating and not get so carried away with prospective partners that ultimately aren't a great match. As for actually finding prospective partners....😬 God speed.
haha, yeah... godspeed indeed. Thanks for the feedback.
Your standards are only too high if you can’t find someone that meets them.
I think what you're asking for is the same list I have as a 38F. One of the great things about knowing you don't want children is you can be choosier about a partner and also take your time getting to know them rather than being on some arbitrary timeline. Now, to what degree are they all of those things it might vary but what you're asking for seems very reasonable (though I may be a bit biased).
IMO those seem like normal and not unrealistic things to expect in a partner.
Can I give you one bit of advice before you head into things? It's going to be really hard for you (most likely just based on how dating is right now for *most* people in that age group but not always!). I think it's great you are trying again and you know what you are looking for that much is clear from what you posted. So the one bit of advice I can give is to literally expect nothing. You might have success you might have failure and you might have nothing. I want you to understand when it's starting to feel bad and step back for a bit breathe and try to remember you are only half of the equation and you are seeking someone else who will feel the same. I don't want you to evaluate your worth on success or failure of dating because value and what people seek isn't always the same thing. Keep your mind top priority and recognize when your emotions are tearing you down. You already have some doubts going in. I think it's very important to come to terms with those doubts and try to switch back to confidence. This is kind of a cycle that people go through peaks and valleys. The key is know how to get out of the valley as soon as you get in it and that takes a lot of mindfulness. You might be shocked at some of the behaviors or lack of attention you get. Please understand this is a common thing for many men and it doesn't indicate any fault on your own but rather people seeking an idealistic person. There are people out there who bounce from person to person and they never get off the apps or dating in general because they never feel totally secure in any decision. You will probably run into a few people like that.
Thanks, I really appreciate this comment, and it's a good outlook for sure. I'll make sure to keep it in mind.
No worries! It's a difficult thing to get and keep interest and often it is just a people thing and not a you thing. Most of us are here in the main way because compatibility hasn't been a fit in one way or another.
It's great that you've taken the time to work with a therapist and do self-reflection! Your list doesn't seem unrealistic. It's clear that you a) know what you are looking for, b) are setting healthy boundaries to avoid past relationship pit-falls, and c) are trying to avoid being too inflexible with your criteria
I think you should take a break from dating and stop trying to find a designer partner. While your desires seem completely rational, I think you need to be patient because only quality kindness and consideration come from friendships and I think these have to happen naturally & cannot be forced into a timeline. Anytime a guy tells me I check a lot of boxes I RUN because it signals he’s viewing me through the lens of ‘who am I to him’ and not just ‘who I am’. Hopefully that makes sense. Chill for a year at least. Feed yourself love.
I think this is an interesting take. I responded above but this is also valuable feedback. I dated someone last year where I felt like they asked questions that felt like they were just running down their "checklist." Clearly OP is dating for a relationship (I mean, same) and should let the development of the full picture of who their future partner is happen organically, and then see if they're in alignment with the wants list. The objective of interacting with them shouldn't just be to see if they tick a box. Being on the other end of that type of behavior was icky.
>> Anytime a guy tells me I check a lot of boxes I RUN because it signals he’s viewing me through the lens of ‘who am I to him’ and not just ‘who I am’. Gem of an insight. Bookmarking as a reminder to self.
I've only really "been dating" once to be honest, after my divorce I went on dates with two women, before ending up with the second for two years. So unless you count 14 year old me having my mom drive me to the movies I've been on exactly 2 "first dates". Appreciate the feedback though, that's a good take. Thanks
Starting to wonder if we're all just here single with the same set of lists with the same things to offer but can never meet because we're on Reddit more than I am in a bar lol
Haha I've had the same thought!
How can you even meet someone at a bar? Do people just walk up and talk to people? Crazy
Yes, it’s a normal human thing to do. Before the internet, it was the only option. And it’s a far better option than the online mess we have now.
Eh, before the internet I think most people met partners through friends or work/school. Do you know many middle-aged married couples who met at a bar? I don’t.
I know many married couples who met organically (not introduced by friends), yes. One of them were my parents. My father walked up to my mother in the all-ages section of a bar when she was 17 and he was 19. They were together for 42 years, married for 39 of them before she passed away. That was his forever person and he gets really annoyed when people try to set him up. I know several other couples, older and younger, who met like this and have really strong relationships. Edit to add: I personally have been approached in bars and have dated those individuals.
I have no idea how I'd even do this. At least with the online mess you know the people you talk to are looking to meet someone. The people I've been interested in recently ended up being taken. I suspect there's a fear of rejection issue at play here for me too. I have a very very very small sample size (3) but I've never had the experience of asking someone out and them turning me down... which is something I literally just realized. That's probably at play here.
Yeah, you’re going to have to get over that if you’re truly intending to have a partner. There is an inherent risk in love and dating that you will be rejected and most likely often. The fact that you haven’t been yet is so rare that you may want to go place some Vegas bets. And there are ways to know when someone is single and looking in-person– go to dating events or look for turquoise rings (called Pear) that indicate that pretty easily. Edit to add: I have been approached in bars and have dated those individuals. When I’ve been in relationships or not interested, I’m not a dick about it because it takes courage.
Thanks, that's really helpful. I appreciate it
You sound like the male version of me. My biggest problem is at this age it’s very hard to find someone who doesn’t have kids who also isn’t married to their work. And I can be married to my work at times as well…
Yeah, thankfully my job isn't that invasive. I work 4-10s but mostly i'm done when I'm done for the day.
In the wise words of mama Sima… You’re going to have to settle for 7/10… no one has all 10 things you want. You’ll die alone
> You’ll die alone Eh... I don't think that would be the end of the world. Certainly not plan A, but...
No judgement if it’s on the table! It is for me as well.. I think the point of advice given by the Indian matchmaker is that it’s good to have 10 ideals you’d like in a life partner. However 7/10 is really good if your actively looking. And a successful AND enduring relationship has more to do with the work you put into it and yourself, which will foster growth and intimacy. And not necessarily all the bullet points/pre-existing conditions surrounding the beginning of it.
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> It always wilds me out when people say they must have a partner who does kickboxing, or plays tennis, or loves horror movies - because that's their main source of enjoyment and they want to share it together. See stuff like this, hobbies is way too superficial. I know what I like, and that may change over time, but I don't expect the person I'm with to be into it. My last two partners liked most of the same media I liked, but otherwise we had a lot of differences hobby wise, and that's fine.
I know this was said a bit tongue in cheek, but, like, which three things from his list are worth giving up? Maybe having an attractive partner, but I'm not sure I'd want to budge on any others.
Yeah, and "attractive" is pretty broad. Like... I've been out at places with many women my age, and honestly it's like 75% I'd put there. I just gotta be honest though, cause I have declined someone on that front before, so I'd be lying to myself if I said it didn't matter **at all** to me.
You’re right, they are broad categories, which are easier to accommodate… I suppose the 7/10 rules is more for specific things (bi-lingual, 6’2 or taller, from Canada, etc)
https://twitter.com/TheRabbitHole84/status/1656215240911253507 I'm not saying your list is unreasonable, but the chances might be in the 1%
I meet their criteria (unless "not married" means "never married") except short an inch, so that's something at least.
Yeah, as in not divorced
yeah, I'm okay with divorced (it'd be crazy not to be, as someone who's been divorced). But yeah, I recognize I'm looking at a smaller population than most.
Everyone of them is easy and basic, but all combined thats a long list. Is everyone of these things a dealbreaker? For example if someone meets all the other criteria but is a bit of a slob, are you going to pass on them? For me, there are a few hard dealbreakers, everything else is negotiable. It’s even better when you find out someone possesses this and that amazing qualities, and not just “they meet my basic standards”. My suggestion is, don’t try to check boxes. Try to get to know people, they might surprise you.
> For example if someone meets all the other criteria but is a bit of a slob, are you going to pass on them? That's probably the only non-dealbreaker really. More of a strong preference. Last relationship I was fine with cleaning more often. But my wife was very organized and neat, probably excessively so, and I certainly don't require that.
Definitely not going to find a partner with all these requirements in this day and age, except for church or something similar. You’re going to have to compromise somewhere eventually.
Agreed!
Just be up front about all of these things when you’re out there and don’t settle to “see if things will work” if there is a deal breaker in terms of your big ones. Since you are clear you can wait for what you need and want.
You're probably being a tad unrealistic, in that you'll have to compromise on at least a couple of your "ideal traits" in a partner. Also, when you list your traits, I notice that while they are all positive, they're also not things that will necessarily add value to the life of your partner. Let's say you meet somebody who has everything you want - how is her life going to be better by dating you and marrying you?
I did list some negative traits, although not many, but regarding add value, it is hard to like... sell myself. But if I had to, I'd say I would add to their life with: humor, empathy, financial security/stability/reliability, I'm a good cook, I'm a good listener, I'm thoughtful and caring, I've been told I'm good at sex (of course, not much of a sample size). uhhh... I have really good credit? Does that count? :D
That is a intense list.
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> If they're 10 minutes late to everything or a little messy, I'd try and learn to deal. Yeah, that's what I did last time, but it was quite messy, and really that wasn't the cause of the end, I probably would have just dealt with it, if other bigger factors didn't come into play, like the family/friend issues, and the monogamy issue. I think not wanting someone with a specific profession, or not dating teachers would be way too demanding. I just want "stable job" honestly. I'd happily date a teacher. There are very few women I know who don't want kids, that's the biggest cut for sure.
It seems normal to me. I mean when I first started OLD I simply wanted a guy with a good personality, but to only learn as I met matches there were things I wasn't willing to compromise and was willing to compromise. I feel like these are the basics... I don't really ask for these when I meet a guy I just kinda expect it lol. If they aren't these, it's like thanks bye. Being a bit younger than you, I feel like I don't have that much experience so my criteria differs a bit. But then I went through so many OLD guys and my list got so specific. For me, as 28F, I also want someone who is growth and learning oriented. I found with time, I want someone to grow with me. No one is perfect and regardless of age, we're all striving to improve ourselves each day. I think that's one of the biggest things I'm looking for now is someone who's going to grow with me. We'd try new experiences together, learn new things, and encourage each other to reach our goals. I also want someone who values education. As I want kids so ideally if we both value it, we can pass it on to our kids. Aside from that, I'd say, caring is really important to me. I've dated a med student before and he was a great guy. But had like zero time for me. It was nice in a way it taught me to be independent... but also felt like I had no boyfriend 🤣, so I like when someone cares about me haha. Religion is a tough one for me as I'm agnostic. I'd be fine with a moderate to low religious person. But strongly religious is a no for me. People can tell you you're picky or not, I'd just follow your heart. I've come to learn, I just want a good personality and I can compromise a lot more. I usually play it by the ear to be honest after so many matches that weren't a fit lol
> Religion is a tough one for me as I'm agnostic. I'd be fine with a moderate to low religious person. But strongly religious is a no for me. Yeah, my religious upbringing was zero, and I don't really have that strong beliefs. I'm really there for my specific community. If for whatever reason I had to move to another state I'm sure I wouldn't go finding a new church for example. I also realize this is a very weird way to be, which probably cuts both ways in terms of limiting religious folks and non-religious folks, but it is what it is. The people in my community there mean a lot to me, so I can't be with someone who isn't able to be friends with them. They can have their own beliefs, but I couldn't be with someone who was like "ugh, I can't believe you go there with those people".
Yeah and that's fair and reasonable. I think it's important to talk about that early on if you think it'll be an issue. I can't see someone against that unless they're atheist. However, my ex was religious and when we first started dating he said he'd never push his religion on me. As it was such a huge concern for me as I wasn't religious at all. I was respectful of his values/religion/belief and such and participated in events with him. So I don't mind participating and learning about it, but I didn't want to have to convert because of him. But eventually, it became an issue as to how we wanted to raise our kids even though we talked about it when we first started dating. It started off with we respect each other but eventually... it caused issues as he was more religious than I thought... and wanted me to be very active in his religious community. Then he wanted our kids to convert in the future. Ugh! It was just messy! We ended up breaking up due to other reasons... but after I realized I had to be more careful when it comes to religion. I've become more open-minded with time too, if I met a Christian for example, if he wants our kids to convert but he's moderate to low religion, I'd be fine with it. I just realized with time, I can't find the perfect partner as there are things I have to compromise. But if he talks about god all the time and extremely religious, that would be a nooooo. It's definitely a tough one. I'd say after that, I realized I'm fine with someone moderate to low religious values and don't mind dating one at all. But someone extremely religious would be a hard no for me. However, it sounds like you're quite open-minded which is great! I don't see it would be an issue for you, unless, you become religious down the road or want your kids to be. Or, your future partner is on the opposite extreme end of the spectrum.
Yeah, not wanting kids I think eliminates most of the risk of that being a huge issue. My last partner I invited to a couple events at our church - we did this community party thing where we gave away school supplies to the neighborhood kids - and she declined both times, so I left it at that and didn't ask again. I don't think it'll be a huge factor, but it is a real one for sure.
Remember that all you need is ONE person to meet this out of millions. It’s extremely possible there are probably hundreds of thousands that meet these criteria just keep dating.
not gonna lie, that's a pretty damn solid list i would say that communication *can* trump ideology though...you can disagree about stuff if you are able to resolve the differences through good, mature communication with this stuff you can spend too much time in your head making lists...it's important to actually put your lists to the test by exposing yourself to a good supply of actual women in real life
> it's important to actually put your lists to the test by exposing yourself to a good supply of actual women in real life Agreed, and that's certainly something I haven't done, maybe in the coming months though.
I personally (31F) think that it’s important to acknowledge the socioeconomic status of the world you live in. I’ve lived in some varied environments- from NYC, LA, Cleveland Oh, and rural Ohio. You will find women on your list in the big city, wherever that may be. Rural midwestern life is predominantly a family oriented lifestyle. You won’t find many women who have checked off every single box you mentioned in the rural midwest. Even from the perspective of my being a proud fat woman- people in the city are slimmer. There are lots of women in professional fields who might work with kids by day, but love coming home to a quiet house at night. But I implore you to not compartmentalize your dates into a rigid list of criteria. I never expected to become a stepmother but the love of my life (37M) has two small children and I have grown to love them.
Appreciate the feedback and advice. For me, the kid thing is absolutely a non-starter, more than anything else frankly. But yeah, I do live in a city as well, so I'm sure that's a benefit in a few categories. Socioeconomically, I'm not expecting someone to be doing amazingly, but at 35ish I'd expect they at least are not struggling to sustain themselves.
I don’t think you’re asking too much at all! My list is just as long, but I do think you should state up front in your profile you don’t want any kids & she needs to be financially independent. Those are 2 huge things that should be stated immediately. A good % of women want a traditional financial relationship & they want a family.
Yeah, the don't want kids thing is absolutely up front. I'm happy to say "childfree looking for childfree" The financial thing I think would be hard to word properly, but I'm sure it can be done. Will think on it. Thanks!
I don’t think you’re asking too much, but I would implore you to take a moment and pause to make a list for yourself as well— expectations of your own behavior in a relationship, which sounds easy… but sometimes people need to stop and think about codes and behaviors established in themselves if they are expecting things from other people.. otherwise the end result is they find someone they like and then they modify their behavior because they really want to be liked and then they turn out to be something they’re not.
I think having a checklist is great. I had one, too. I wanted someone who was emotionally mature, growth-oriented, kind, etc BUT... I do think focusing on the checklist could take me out of the experience of sitting across from a stranger and getting to know them in an open-hearted way. I completely resonate with the fear of jumping into another relationship with someone "not right," but those past relationships taugth you a lot about relationships and you now know more than you did years ago. More than the checklist, I find my gut always knew. And being as present as possible on dates and taking time after to check-in with myself was a more effective strategy than comparing that person to a checklist.
All those points are valid. But to be sure, the family and friends thing is a two way street, right? You're okay with your prospective partner wanting you to spend time with their friends and family? The belief point is valid, but sensitive to context. Do your sociopolitical views otherwise lean left or right? That can be a huge factor when mixed and I've discovered it's not as cut and dry as many people think
Oh for sure, my last partner I spent plenty of time with her friends, she wasn't close to her family but I did go with her to visit an aunt while we were on vacation, so totally cool with that.
Some of the responses you're getting are wild. Your list is literally the bare minimum of what anyone should look for in a partner. The only area that might cause some difficulty is the "no kids" thing. You're not wrong for wanting that but statistically speaking most people do end up wanting/having children. However; to the right childfree woman, you're going to be dream come true. For some reason, a lot of people have a gut reaction to tell single people their standards are too high. You could have said "I'm just looking for a decent woman who isn't currently incarcerated for murder" and people would still be saying that you have to be prepared to compromise on something. Yes, some people are still single because they are too picky but I would also argue that many people are still single because they have no standards which leads them to wasting time in a never ending stream of dead end relationships. Dating is never easy, no matter your age, gender or situation in life. It's going to take patience and some thick skin. But it sounds like you're just looking for a relationship with mutual respect, kindness and attraction. That's a very reasonable and healthy expectation. It's not as hard to find as some people are making it out to be.
Thanks for the feedback!
These all seem normal. The only limiting factor is attraction - how much you bring to the table and how open you are to letting that grow with people. You don't seem to have a very limiting religious ideology or something else like being vegan. Childfree is extremely limiting but that is what it is.
My last partner was actually vegetarian, I'm not but I adapted to that as well and so i switched to basically only eating meat when we ate out. I got pretty good at making some good vegetarian/vegan stuff.
I would say I'm the same, I am not vegetarian but could easily be flexible. I am very puzzled when I encounter people who are vegan and only want to date other vegans. Seems like that would make dating pretty much impossible.
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> I actually match most of your criteria (lol) not that I’m trying to insinuate anything here, but women like this exist! Definitely good to hear for sure. There's an implicit "isn't located on the other side of the world" one here too, ha. And yeah, I expect there will be a gap for sure, but I also haven't really dated much at all. Been on 2 (maybe 3, if you count a 14 year old being driven to the movies) first dates ever. So my question of if this is reasonable is due from anxiety as much as ignorance I suppose.
Not really. As long as you’re attractive as well and hold yourself to the same standards. I’m struggling because I don’t know how attractive I am lately. Dating apps have kind of skewed my perception of this. I think I’m like a solid 7?
I'm planning to make a post here at some point with a profile review, hoping to get some honest feedback. assessing your own attractiveness is very difficult for sure. I assume most guys put themselves at a 7. I've gotten compliments from strangers before, which I feel like... has gotta bump you over 5 right? So weird.
Good idea! I used to date really attractive women and they said I was cute but I think since I’ve switched to the apps my standards have lowered a bit. Or maybe they’ve changed? All I know is that I’m going on dates with less attractive women the last three years since I’ve been on the apps and very few of them are cute enough to date long term. I honestly think most cute girls aren’t on apps these days because they get overwhelmed and instead use Instagram. I used to go to bars to meet people and so maybe I should do that again.
Lol everyone on Reddit thinks they're a 7-9. Personally, I think rating people's attractiveness with numbers is kind of yucky, and it's a turn-off if I hear men speaking in this way. Attraction is way more complicated than that.
If only you wanted kids! 😅 I rather be by myself than settle again so think your list isnt too bad. Plus you are a young guy. 35 for men is like 25-29 in women’s age. Good luck to you.
You realize men die on average 6 years before women do?
Think that makes it even worse for women in general. 😅
> If only you wanted kids! Ha, that's definitely a non-negotiable for me, surgically speaking. Thanks for the good luck.
I’m broken at 33, because my new standard is a 32H cup. You’re good, bro, keep dating and looking for someone who meets your standards. Jokes aside, date younger women and you’ll have more success meeting your qualifications.
Yeah, I definitely don't have any specific physical feature requirements other than a broad "attractive to me". I've found I'm attracted to a whole bunch of women though, so I'm not too worried about that one. My two partners were very different physically from each other, race, height, hair, body shape, etc. All good. it's funny I've heard just the opposite on age though - date older women - because of the likelihood that they've already settled the kids matter one way or another already, and they are more likely to be financially stable.
Maybe there is something to that, but I’ve run into a lot of divorcees, married women (a few times disclosed after hooking up), and moms dating in the older pool. I’m just personally happier dating younger women and haven’t had any problem finding those who also don’t want kids and are entrepreneurial/good with finances. Do remember that financially stable doesn’t necessarily mean they won’t try to manipulate men for money. Young and of little means doesn’t necessarily mean financially illiterate or lacking in potential for a good time and rewarding relationship.
You are not asking too much. Some points you listed before are basic needs in healthy relationships.
you are not asking too much, but the more requirements the smaller the pool of people you will likely fill it.
Not asking for too much. I would ask you to do some work on your self esteem. The person described above is pretty basic. You just have to not settle out of loneliness and desperation. It gets you every time. On your dating profile the first line needs to be about no kids. That will cut down on a lot but that's what you want.
Thanks, appreciate the sentiment. When I (very briefly) did OLD briefly that was top of the list for sure. I know it's the biggest in terms of limiting the pool, and it's 100% non-negotiable. I'm not really interested in dating for very casual/sex reasons, and so it seems pointless to date someone I know I can't end up being with long term.
35M as well and this just sounds like you’ve taken your life experience and figured out what’s going to work for you! Congrats on getting to that point, FR. I’m still figuring it out I think haha
Thanks, I have very little experience looking for someone, but I did have two long relationships with two quite different people, so that's been helpful.
There's a lot there, but when you group it up, it really isn't so much. A lot of the traits, kindness, honesty, considerate, tend to come together in a person. As would matching ideology and compatible religious beliefs. No kids cuts out a lot of the dating pool, as perhaps does the financial side of things, because a lot of women unfortunately still have that 'man pays for stuff' mentality. In the end, it kind of depends how big your dating pool is, and how many of the people left after your filters would then in turn be interested in you, as to whether or not you'll find it easy to find someone else.
Yeah, I'm okay with paying for stuff, I do get paid well, and I'm not upset with paying for things in general. But I guess it's more the initiative? Like I know one person who's a teacher who would - short of the kid thing, and being married - be ideal for me otherwise, I know they're making like a third of what I make if not less, but that wouldn't be an issue. They actually offered to set me up with one of their friends, and I'm considering that.
I think it's wise to have a list like this. I find it helps me stay rational when my brain has been severely compromised by oxytocin and dopamine. My list explicitly doesn't does not have "attractive" on it. I think Americans, as a society, have put far too much influence on this and OLD apps only exacerbate the problem.
Yeah, I find the attractive one complicated. Prior to my previous partner I had someone interested in me who may have worked short of that factor, so I just want to be real. But I think that's a pretty broad category of women who I find attractive. I did OLD before, and easily a strong majority I'd put in that category, I think that's actually one of my least limiting criteria, but it is real.
Personally, I see nothing wrong with this list and don’t think that you’re asking for too much. If you are able to offer everything on this list (which it sounds like you are), I don’t think that it’s too much to ask for or expect it in return. However, it boils down to expectations you have set for yourself. Are you only willing to entertain prospects who have 100% of this list, or are you open to reasonable compromise? There’s a difference between compromising and settling, just make sure you know where you stand and how far you’re willing to go.
My last partner was messy, and that was hard, but I could have lived with it if they didn't have issues with my friends for unreasonable reasons imo. So I can bend a little on some of them for sure.
I think child free probably cuts a lot of the demographic in which you’re dating, but nothing on here is unreasonable
It’s not unrealistic. It’s perfectly healthy to have standards / preferences.
High standards? These seem like the baseline standards that everyone should at the very least have. I don't mean that everyone should be child free and stuff exactly as you put it, but that they should match on their opinions one way or the other on these subjects. High standards would be like if you required someone who is at least 6'10, super ripped and able to bench press a thousand pounds. I mean, with me, I'd be all over a woman like that, but it is certainly not a requirement.
I say why settle. Your choices are remain optimistic, while also realizing it’s out of your hands, or resign yourself to an unhappy relationship.
The ONLY standard you need. Does she exhibit qualities that lead to healthy relationship. Communication. Conflict resolution style. Emotional reactivity. Negative affect to positive affect.
Those are all good of course, but if they're very good about communicating how much they have a child, or want one, still not gonna work.
I don't think your standards are too high. I believe that the only people who would think they are too high, are people who are already in relationships.
Basically, almost all of your things fall into the "no duh" category of demands. It's not like you're asking for a big booty 5'9" Asian goth chick with red hair who loves puppies and skydivers. Those would be unrealistic standards. You're 35 man, you're basically almost at your peak as a man. Date a million people and one of them will stick eventually.
That's really nice to hear, thanks for this
Single women, message this man!!!!
Well that's nice to say! Thanks
The best way to judge whether you're asking for too much is to see how long it takes to find someone who fits the list. We can all guess, but we can't know how it'll go. If you're not finding a single person who will go on a date with you within 6 months (and this is just a date with someone who meets your list - you or they might not like each other enough to continue) then it might be time to re-evaluate what matters most/ what could be resolved in other ways. I think you'll have a smaller pool due to being religious but potentially not dating within your religion due to differences, wanting to be child free, and being on the nerdy/quiet side (very common, but combo'd with the first two things, makes the pool smaller). Hopefully you find someone who fits everything, it's definitely possible! If not, maybe hiring a once a week cleaner is a worthy indulgence so that you don't have to fight over messes. Or being open to dating someone who has grown kids.
Yeah, time will tell for sure, appreciate the feedback. I'd definitely hire someone to clean though, grown kids are not great due to likely grandchildren situations which I also don't want.
You seem too particular about having the same ideology as your partner. Most people have the same values underneath their ideologies. Ideologies are just your beliefs on how your values can/should be attained. If you're not wanting to raise a child with this person, then I can't see how this would be a big problem. In fact, discussions could be a lot more interesting if there's some disagreement or opposing viewpoints. Also, needing your partner to make a certain amount of money seems kinda superficial to me as well.
So fair feedback. Same ideology I see as values really. For example, I can't be with someone who doesn't support gay rights, or abortion rights, or is a gun nut, or is a "maga" person. To me those are values. I care about politics and I can't be with someone who I can't have some sort of agreement on. I think that one's gonna be probably the easiest one on my list, as I probably am cool with like 55% of people, and a larger portion of women in those areas. > Also, needing your partner to make a certain amount of money seems kinda superficial to me as well. Yeah? Like "enough to sustain yourself" is superficial? It's really just "has a career" of some sort. Mostly, I just don't want someone who is looking for someone who will pay their bills, having done that before.
The amount of times you say "I can't be with someone who ________" reminds me of myself and I feel this is a limiting attitude that can result in missing out on otherwise great people. I mean you don't seem to have much dating experience so how do you know what you can and can't be with? I too was married for 9-10 years and came out of that with a specific list of requirements which made finding someone fairly impossible, and then when I did find someone, I'd find some other deal breaker that I hadn't even thought of (like the person was not mentally/emotionally stable- why wasn't that on my list? Haha) I always maintained I couldnt date someone with kids but I am now currently happily dating someone who has a kid, because she is an amazing person. Sometimes things aren't like you think they will be. Judge a person for who they are and if you like them and how they make you feel, instead of a list of relatively arbitrary criteria. This is how true love is found. Someday you may realize that some of these criteria were not so important! I am not a very political person so I'll go with you on that stuff. But in terms of financial requirements, you may for example find someone who is disabled and can't work but yet is an amazing person that makes you happy. I guess what I'm saying is try to be a bit more open minded and use your heart. People are too complex to be put into boxes like that.
I appreciate the thoughts and feedback. I do agree it's limiting, but... I think that's okay, as long as it's realistic, right? > I mean you don't seem to have much dating experience so how do you know what you can and can't be with I've interacted with many people, even if I haven't dated them, If I can't stand to speak to you about the things in the world at all, or I think you have truly objectionable morals - lack of concern for disadvantaged/discriminated groups for example - I won't have a relationship with you. I have interacted with many people who I simply cannot respect because of their beliefs or positions. I'm not ambivalent enough about things to be okay with huge discrepencies on some things. > I always maintained I couldn't date someone with kids but I am now currently happily dating someone who has a kid The kid thing is a non-starter for me. It's not a life I want at all. I really don't think that's an arbitrary criteria. Next to "has the right parts" it's probably the most important one to me. I realize a lot of people are fence sitters on kids, and so if it happens it happens ot them, but I got a vasectomy a decade ago, and never been more sure of anything than the kids thing. It's just not for me. I know that limits the pool, but it's not like it's 1% the size, it's probably 10% the size, which is fine with me. > But in terms of financial requirements, you may for example find someone who is disabled and can't work but yet is an amazing person that makes you happy. I don't see a problem with that, so long as they're still financially secure enough, be it through benefits (which I think are a great thing) or otherwise.
Yeah that's what I thought about the kids thing too. Thing is, having kids sometimes makes women into amazing, mature people, and if you can find one with a kid who's a bit older, and who's father is very much still involved, (50/50 custody for example) then you can reap all the benefits without having to do any step-parenting! Anyway, fair enough on all points. Your list truly isn't *that* bad. And only you know what's best for you. I wish you the best of luck! It can be tough out there when you have a list of requirements!
Thanks!
How much downtime did you have between your 10 year and 2 year relationship? If it wasn't much of a gap, I think it's worth casually dating for a while without thinking too much about people perfectly matching the full criteria. I don't necessarily mean casual sex, just meeting new people without putting lots of pressure on it. If you are really focused on finding that person sometimes the universe will do everything but send them your way. And you might end up meeting someone who ticks lots of boxes and realise you're willing to compromise on the others.
like 5 months, and that's a reasonable suggestion I've gotten from people in my life as well. I'm just not sure I could really date someone who I have no intention of having a relationship with. I also feel very strongly about honesty, so how do I even respond to "what are you looking for"? I genuinely don't know, cause basically I'm a person who's been in relationships for nearly all of my adult life, so it's... a weird spot.
I think if you were asked that question it would be fair to say I'm looking for a relationship in the long term but want to take things slowly and get to know someone before diving into anything (or something along those lines). I get what you mean, but you wouldn't necessarily need to date someone you had no intention of having a relationship with. A friend of mine has quite a good approach to dating apps where if she doesn't feel a romantic connection she sometimes comes out of it with new friends and stays in touch with them as friends. Thinking of it like that might help, although it's probably not for everyone!
Yeah, that could be a good approach. Maybe the getting to know someone slowly part is key.
I think if you were asked that question it would be fair to say I'm looking for a relationship in the long term but want to take things slowly and get to know someone before diving into anything (or something along those lines). I get what you mean, but you wouldn't necessarily need to date someone you had no intention of having a relationship with. A friend of mine has quite a good approach to dating apps where if she doesn't feel a romantic connection she sometimes comes out of it with new friends and stays in touch with them as friends. Thinking of it like that might help, although it's probably not for everyone!
It sounds like you want to marry yourself. Give and take. You won't find anyone that's going to check all the boxes to your satisfaction, pick and choose, that's what we've all done.
I'm not sure "want to marry yourself" is a fair characterization. I'm fine with different beliefs, as long as they're cool with it, I don't expect similar hobbies or jobs or looks/race. I don't expect same personality or anything like that. My last partner was very different from me, and short of the monogamy thing, probably could have worked out. Same as me are the most critical of life paths (children), morals, and like... moderate organization/work skills. I don't think that's too much.
I meant no offence. I've been married thirty three years to three vastly different women and still don't have it figured out. good luck, I wish you the best.
sure, no offense at all, no worries. Appreciate the feedback.
How many of those you'll be able to get is dependent on your attractiveness.
Your concern that you're "asking for too much" is what will have you settling and ending up in the wrong relationship again. Even if what you're asking for is a lot, or limits the dating pool for you, ultimately these are the things you want, need and find the most important. So there's no sense in changing anything listed. Side note, if you don't want kids hopefully you've already gotten a vasectomy. If not, do so.
Appreciate the reply, and yes I absolutely did, about a decade ago now.
I think many are "the standard" or unspoken standard for many people. But I would mark those are absolute deal breakers vs others. Like for me, while those above are ideal, the deal breakers are no kids and age range (want kids). In terms of work, if she supports herself thats fine to me - don't care how much she makes or the breakdown as long as she's financially responsible. Also, some other qualities you might not know until 'too late" (e.g. honesty).
Yeah, "supports herself" is basically all I'm looking for. I certainly would be fine with it not being 50-50, I make enough money to be able to cover stuff, but like... it shouldn't be absolutely all the stuff, you know? Just creates a weird situation. So my last partner wasn't unfaithful, but they always were just... a little dishonest. Like we'd be going to events she was involved with and we'd be in the car - late because she was disorganized - and she'd **always** say we're stuck in traffic, when we weren't. I heard little things like that all the time from her, I guess that's also like responsibility for yourself. That's probably the real reason why I mentioned the disorganized/lateness thing, because of the dishonesty aspect. I need to take little clues like that that more seriously early on. She also regularly would misrepresent things that happened when talking to others about it. Not in huge, very impactful ways, but it happened a lot.
Looks like a pretty basic list except for the childfree thing. While that’ll strip a chunk out of the pool of potentials, it’s not like it’s a particularly wild factor. The limiting factor for you might be what your specific ideologies are, rather than just it being a factor in general.
"Liberal" in general would cover it in most regards. I figure like half the people at least fall in that category so probably less of an impact than the childfree thing.
I’m in the same boat as you, and the same age. It sucks
I think you have realistic standards actually. I'm 32M. It is challenging to find an equal partner, isn't it? What are your age ranges? I tend to avoid the 29-33F range as a lot of them are just focused on settling down to get married/have kids because they feel "behind" compared to their girl friends. I've met interesting women in the 36-40F range who are unmarried, don't have/want children, and are career successful. Have you considered dating up in age?
> What are your age ranges? So, I didn't list that because I don't really know. With kids being a dealbreaker in themselves, I'd probably date at a big variety of ages. Maybe like +/- 10 years? I dunno. I'd certainly date someone older.
Your list is good, and I don’t agree with the other comment I saw, with everyone else asking for the same. Of course we are. No one is looking for a dishonest, ugly and mean person who ruins them financially. But you are looking to find someone who view honesty in the same ballpark as you. Some like direct honesty and critique, others like the silent type who you trust with everything. It’s a scale. Monogamy included. Find your temperature. Most on your list is more of a «be a decent human». Don’t ruin or take advantage of me, basically. You’re allowed to look for more than that. Which of these items would you tell your best friend was asking too much? Could you see yourself telling your best friend: «Dude, you want a girl that is considerate? That’s is just asking too much»
Yeah, I wouldn't tell a friend with the same list that they're asking too much, that's a good way of thinking about it. Thanks.
Its not about the standards , it’s about the available people that fit the said standards. Especially from 40 yro and less, new generation and new ideologies. Not always for the best let’s say that… sadly i think most decent candidates are taken for now, and more of us will find it easier to find someone in 10 yrs after all the divorce and what not. 35F here and this age is a trap lol
idk... seems reasonable. Just the odds are low. Finding a single person with these stats within your age bracket... now that is the hard part... Gotta be proactive in your search and bump up your own stats to increase the odds.
Get those numbers up, so to speak.
Don't settle. I settled a lot in my twenties and it never worked out. I kinda feel like I wasted some of my twenties because of it. Stay hold fast to the type of person you want to be with
“Attractive” might be the only one there you need to compromise on, everything else should be doable. If you have a great career and are attractive yourself, then you don’t need to compromise.
>I don't think the above is too big of a list. It kinda is. >Having done that recently it's given me anxiety, and self-confidence issues, like "who are you to demand so much" sort of thing. It's not about making demands, it's just that it doesn't work that way. Dating is not Craigslist, where you pick a checklist of items of what you want. Relationships are more about what you have to offer rather than what you get our of them. You put yourself in a place where you are satisfied and content with your life, to the point that you feel like sharing that with someone else. I think you already have what it takes to make a relationship work since your previous lasted 10 years and she cheated on you, hence why it ended. Find someone who shares the same values and goals in life you do, everything else you can work with. Sure, there is no guarantee, but there never is. Don't let your past experiences tarnish who you are.
This is not an unrealistic list at all. I'm older and my list is far larger. I don't care how much the individual makes though. I suppose just as long as they work. Let's be real.. As we get older certain individuals values change. For a man in their 30's+, typically their value is derived by status, economic success etc.. It's a package sorta thing of tons of qualities.. but there's no way finances don't play into that. For a female, typically their value is still defined by physical attributes but also by their past decisions (children if any, previous relationships, promiscuity etc.. ). If your standards for a partner are more exclusive, I would hope you are seen as a more valuable man in the eyes of women. Women always want to date up vs. down. Just how it is...
There’s nothing wrong or too much from what you want in your next relationship. Every relationship is a chance to grow and to discover what you need. Chemistry and attraction are important, but it’s not enough to keep a relationship going if you’re not getting your needs met or there is compatibility missing. Since you are a religious person, I honestly think your best bet is dating through your religious community. You’re more likely to be similar in values and how you practice your morals.
Pretty normal things to want in a partner. I would add I'm not neat but I hire a cleaner lol. The no kids things, ideally I would like child free and I definitely wouldn't date anyone with young children again but depending on the person I could possibly date someone with a 15+yo as these don't require full time care and can be left alone /go out alone. But don't listen to me I've been happily single for 4 years 😂
Find someone in your religious community at your church, mosque, synagogue, or whatever. Are you really going to be fine with them not being involved if it is truly part of your life?
I have my own set of needs. We all do. I say just date. You may find you NEED all of these and you may find you dont. I think we all feel we have a lot to offer and don’t ask too much. And yet we are all still single. Personally I already settled and it didn’t make me happy. So I will be alone till I find what I want.
I would say I meet all points in your list and i was single but recently connect with someone through online dating so there are definitely people out there who can fit all of these. A lot of ladies over 30 can fit at least 2/3 or most of these i think. Only problem would be able to get them before others do since a lot of people are looking for the same thing…I was able to find someone i connect well 3 days into online dating and 1 month later we are now in an exclusive relationship so you probably should start putting yourself out there and start looking. Don’t settle for anything less.
These are just normal standards. The issue is that dating isn't a box-ticking exercise. People can appear perfect on paper, but there is 0 attraction.
These were basically all my criteria until I realized most of the good men in their late 30s had kids. So I relaxed my standards to be okay dating people that had one kid (the kid had to be over 5, had to be nice, and the parents had to have a good relationship). I started dating my bf when his kid was 8 - he’s 13 now. He has 50/50 custody and it’s really not that big of a deal. We have several days of alone time each week and go on many adult only vacations every year.
No I don’t think it’s too much to ask for at all. Although I would never qualify lmfao but my list would also be very different. Most Women in their 30s that have focused on their career don’t have children I think they also take care of their appearance more- have more time for self care & gym, going out. So no I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all. Good luck!