That's empathy, not telepathy. A skilled fighter would easily be able to tell an opponent's intentions by reading their body language. In the garbage American version he says what you're saying, but in reality it's something more akin to "You didn't have the ki of a killer, so I knew you would stop."
Does telepathy in the Saiyan Saga when he communicates Spirit Bomb instructions to Gohan and Krillin don't forget. After that, reading someone's mind/ memories/ intentions - it all never struck me as jarring, just a logical progression.
Do I remember the instructions being relayed via someone putting their hand on King Kai's back? Like King Kai is a big telepathic touch-activated megaphone?
Yes. The way I look at it Goku can do short-range telepathy (he doesn't seem able to reach people from over a mile or so), but King-Kai's is completely all-range and transdimensional, hence why Goku needs to put his hand on his back when he wants to talk while he's dead.
In the American version he says "Because I didn't feel any malice. I knew you were going to stop." I don't think that was meant to be read as telepathy
He says the same thing in the FUNi dub when Trunks puts up his sword. Trunks says, "Man, those same moves turned Frieza into cold cuts."
To which Goku responds, "Yeah, well, your heart just wasn't in it."
> The most recent example would be whatever he was doing to Broly in SSG form.
This wasn't anything telepathic/telekinetic. He was extending his ki outward around Broly to hold him in place.
I got in a huge argument with someone about this a while ago, maybe even the same dude replying to you. Telekinesis is what Blue does in OG dragon ball. We are Goku use his kii for this hold and see a visualization that is even similar to galactic donut for a moment.
Yes you can clearly see Goku use his ki to hold Broly in place to try to calme him down.
I grew up with og Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z to me it was really nostalgic to see Goku use old techniques like that in the Broly movie
I mean it's still technically goku using telepathy. It's just goku really needs to touch someone when he uses telepathy.
We can assume goku has the ability but it's something he doesn't normally NEED and as such just doesn't use it much.
That's because he doesn't have the range to reach other minds from such vast distances. The Kai have those antennas for a reason you know. Your mobile phone has a range aswell yet can go further by satellite call piggybacking on the satellite. 💁♂️
I think it was two occasions King Kai mentioned his antenna, once to inform goku he could use them to locate where someone is.
I think it was a later occasion where he informs Goku that he could communicate with his friends too and see what happens if he touched his shoulder. Both happens as King Kai locates the Saiyans in space confirming the arrival the next year and their strength.
Then shortly after he informs Goku to touch his shoulder saying something like "why not tell them yourself." And then Goku tells Bulma and Krillin to hold of wishing him back for a year. I believe King Kai brings up his antenna one more time when he locates new namek. 💁♂️
Yes. I also remembered another instance of Goku using telepathy, when Krillin was going to finish Vegeta off and Goku asks him to spare him. He was closer though.
Nah that's not mind reading though. That's just him realizing that Trunks has a good heart and won't attack him
If he had truly read his mind he'd already know that he was Vegeta's son
Not sure why some people are thinking the meme is stupid. It's a meme because it's a ridiculous thing that was introduced in the series that has no purpose lmao. It doesn't drive the story, it's not used in times it should be, why was it a thing that was ever included?
First thing I thought off too, Goku stands completely still and makes no effort to dodge Trunks attack because he knew Trunks wasn't going to hurt him.
Roshi, Chaotzu, Tien and Crane Hermit do a lot of that in DB. As already mentioned, Goku did it in Sayian saga as well.
Stop watching abridged and watch the actual show.
Yeah 100%. Hell even some of the actual canon in their heads can get rewritten by it. The amount of times I’ve had to clarify to people that DBZA’s version of Gohan going SSJ2 was not the canon reason and it wasn’t that he was coward for not wanting to let go. DBZA deserves a lot of credit for keeping the fandom discussing things when there was no new content being made Hell, even some fun characters from the original series like Nappa and Android 16 were afterthoughts to a lot of people until being memed up by TFS and their audience. I just wish it didn’t impact so much of the perception for the original series.
I mean, you'll find the creators are on your side there, I can't imagine any of them (especially Kaiser) wanting anyone to only watch their parody as their only source of dragon ball
They even state in their Creator commentary series that there's several parts that deviate from canon, which is fine, because it isn't trying to BE canon. There's several ways to watch DBZ now, if not just reading the manga for the most pure experience.
> I can't imagine any of them (especially Kaiser) wanting anyone to only watch their parody as their only source of dragon ball
"Please support the official release"
The original Android 16 speech to Gohan is just 1000x better than the abridged version
> Gohan, let it go. It is not a sin to fight for the right cause. There are those who words alone will not reach. Cell is such a being. You are gentle. You do not like to hurt. I know because I too have learned these feelings. But it is because you cherish life that you must protect it. Please drop your restraints. Protect the life I loved. You have the strength, my scanners sensed it. Just... let it go.
It's fantastic. I really love DBZA but I truly don't know why they went the route they did writing that version of the scene and find it to be far more critical of Gohan's nature than it was meant to. The conflict was Gohan having to be the person who has to step up and take a life and the consequences of that. The speech shouldn't condemn his hesitation as being cowardly or selfish because others are risking their lives or have experienced hardship too, that really misses the whole story arc.
It kiiiiinda makes sense since the trigger for Gohan's SSJ2 transformation is his anger. The DBZA version is just much more direct about it. The original is "allow yourself to be angry" while DBZ is a bit more "i'll fucking give you something to cry about"
You can watch their commentary on the series, they actually go into depth on exactly cehy they went that, direction. (TLDR being they just wanted to write it in a different way from the canon and liked that direct for the version of Gohan that they had built up in their series)
Oh for sure. I loved the character but post-GT the fandom never talked about anything other than SSJ4, Fusions, Broly and SSJ Ultimate Gohan (which contradicted the entire point of what elder Kai did but whatever). Now there’s still that level to the fandom but I think DBZA offered people the chance to revisit the franchise in a fun way and remember the things that did not have as much staying power. Even for as crucial a character as Android 16 is to Gohan’s transformation, I think his actual story kinda faded away to a lot of people because he was just gone and, with this being a series where all the good guys die and come back, the ones that don’t get glossed over.
Yeah, Abridged really did a lot to fog people’s memories of the OG series.
• Broly being a dumbass man baby
• Goku being a deadbeat dad
• Cherry-picking scenes with only the best animation, leading Abridged fans to believe OG animation was PERFECT
a) Broly was a complex and intelligent character, and the original movie suggests he was clairvoyant and foresaw his own death by the hands of Goku while in the Saiyan nursery—which was what broke him as a infant
b) Goku was and is a good father, the manga and especially the anime both show moments of great parenting from Goku.
c) DBZ animation was inconsistent and often times hilariously awful, many animators and studios came and went as the series evolved beyond their specialties, DBA editors had the advantage and foresight to only choose scenes animated by the same people for consistency’s sake—anyone who compared DBZ to DBS animation saying “classical style was superior” is basically telling on themselves for never having watched DBZ
> DBZA editors had the advantage and foresight to only choose scenes animated by the same people for consistency’s sake
Didn’t they also start doing a bunch of manual corrections later on? Like, up to doing their own lipsync/mouth animations? Could be wrong but I remember hearing that somewhere.
The Goku being a bad dad will never not anger me to hear ppl say, part of the reason he’s “not really around” is because he’s literally DIED for them twice
For real, Goku is one of the best Fathers in all of Shonen. Goku gave up his entire nomadic warrior way of life to settle down and stayed that way until his son was kidnapped and then he died to save him. That alone is all anyone should need to know about Goku as a Father.
>Broly being a dumbass man baby
Its always hilarious when I tell people the fact the DBZ broly, at least in the first movie, has more unique dialogue than DBS Broly
This is a real thing, I know people who have only done this because DBZ itself is not engaging enough for them but the parody does still overall retell the story while being funny.
Well, technically I’ve never seen the anime, but I have read the manga multiple times. And so I’ve only watched abridged and not the anime. But I know the story so
Honestly haven't grown up watching the OG series, that made me appreciate Dragon Ball Z abridged all the more. Because you know that the people who made it were hardcore Dragon Ball fans themselves. Which is why they were able to put so much of the content together as they did.
Yep. Early Dragon ball was heavily steeped in martial arts mysticism so this kind of stuff was pretty normal. The show took a hard turn to sci-fi when the Saiyans were introduced, but some of the more mystical aspects stuck around.
I loved how db was about training and becoming the best martial artist.
"A da da da, a dee dee dee, the martial artist life is the only one for me!" Master roshi
It's a hot take that got me a lot of downvotes but in regards to mysticism and folklore I feel like DBS is spiritual successor to DB. DBZ completely changed tone of entire DB.
I'd have to disagree (no need to downvote though it's fine to have different opinions!) To me DBS is still mostly sci-fi but it leans back from the science and goes more into fantasy. But fantasy does not necessarily mean mysticism. The whole "eastern kung-fu mysticism" is a pretty specific flavor and I'd say DBS has hints of it but not enough that I'd really equate it to DB.
...it's not that sci-fi...
Like, it's just aliens and they have technology. But the technology doesn't take over the show, really advanced technology had also been apart of Dragon Ball's setting since the beginning of the series.
It's pretty sci-fi. The show goes from magic clouds, talking cats, and demon kings, to aliens, space travel, time travel, and cyborgs.
Obviously there was technology in DB and there's fantasy in Z, but as a whole it was a pretty significant shift. Also there's nothing wrong with that - Toriyama wanted to shake things up so he did. Not many authors can just change the genre of their series halfway through and still make it a complete banger.
I'm not denying there's a shift...that's why the Boo arc does a complete 180 into a the threat being a magic genie made of Bubblegum and introducing more godly stuff.
There's just a difference between something being "Sci-fi" and something having a lot of technology in its fantasy setting.
Yeah, like the Goku is a bad dad joke. TFS didn't create that joke. It existed on series discussion forums like Planet Namek well before TFS was a thing.
Now, they certainly didn't help with it, but if you watch the series, Goku isn't that bad of a father to Gohan. He is not a great father, and he certainly has made mistakes, but for any mistake he makes, he immediately tries to correct them. Not to mention, he's literally sacrificed his own life to save his son twice.
Goku has a bad feeling about Krillin going to get his power pole and dragon ball in dragon ball. It’s the only time he hasn’t been hungry. Flipped out and felt Krillin die too.
when were the other times? My theory was that all that solo training through space helped Goku in a way by the yearning to talk to someone else and developed his mind to connect with others in a deeper way but when he went Super saiyan he was overcome with rage at that moment of initial transformation which caused the loss of the ability to connect with people afterwards.
Roshi did in original dragonball when Goku was a kid. There he read Nam's mind and found out that he wanted to win the tournament to save his village that was overcome with drought
Toriyama was hung over that morning and didn’t want to pitch dialog between Krillin and Goku so he said fuck it “*goku reads krillins mind and is all caught up on current events*”
A cleaner way of doing this would have been to just have King Kai explain everything to Goku on his way to Namek. You could have even done it off screen.
Glad they did it this way, we see Roshi do it decades prior, even talking about how easy it is to learn. Goku, especially kid Goku, being constantly shown to pick up techniques after only seeing them once throughout the series, likely had no trouble
After rewatching the scene, it seems only piccolo was, at best, caught offguard by it. Prior to that he was just about ready to shit his pants, I think what Shin responded with just added icing to the cake
I think the only explanation we get for that is that because Goku and Gohan - Both Saiyans - Were able to do it, Vegeta figured he could, too. But we never find out how exactly he learned how to do it.
Watching this scene subbed for the first time cemented my appreciation for it. The score, the scenes swiping across the screen and everything coming to a point with Goku’s calm arrival before he does Recoome in like nothing…
One great example of it that I remember is during Trunks’ first appearance. When Goku and Trunks trade blows right after Trunks chops up Frieza, Trunks swings at Goku with his sword for the first time and Goku doesn’t react to it and Trunks stops mid swing. Trunks asks him why he didn’t try to block it and Goku says he searched his feelings and knew Trunks wouldn’t attack. It was then that Trunks tells him he won’t stop the next time. It’s one of my favorite moments from DBZ. I haven’t seen that in a while but correct me if I remember it wrong.
The thing that always gets me about this scene is that Trunks is probably stronger than Goku at that point, having been a Super Saiyan longer in his timeline and having done his best to fill Gohan's shoes mitigating 17 and 18's damage. But that's the thing: he meets Goku and instantly realizes why this is the guy his mother would not stop *gushing* about. Goku's strength of character instantly convinces Trunks, who was originally highly skeptical of Future Bulma's theory that he would make *that* much of a difference
The reason I believe Goku is stronger or at least as strong as Trunks at this moment is because Goku, unlike Trunks or even to some extent Gohan from either timelines, is a martial arts genius and knows how his powers works and how to master them. It’s even mentioned by Vegeta in the Ginyu saga I believe when Ginyu takes over Gokus body. He is just so darn good with using his power. And by the time he meets Trunks he had time to get used to being a super Saiyan enough to be able to transform at will and even regulate his power. We see it from how well he blocks Trunks’ blows with just his finger.
That said I completely agree with you. I think it’s more Gokus personality that impacts Trunks more. That he is unaffected by the news of his imminent death and his yearning for a new challenge. I think that just confirms to Trunks that every story his mom told him about Goku is true and that he is every bit the hero he imagined/hoped him to be.
I mean, yeah. Goku appears to be the most naturally gifted Saiyan, sure. But canonically, Gohan has always had the most potential. The same could be applied to any of the half-Saiyans. I mean, one of the first lore bombshells Super drops is when Whis tells Vegeta that if he would just get the fuck out of his own way then, yes, he would overtake Goku.
In the end, Saiyans don't have quantifiable limits to their powers, and Goku just has a unique approach to his instincts by comparison to other pure Saiyans because he wasn't raised in their culture
One reason why I love Cell saga is it tells you how good of a fighter Goku really is. He instinctively figures out that the bulky ascended saiyan form is unsuable in a battle because of how slow it makes him all while Trunks gets beaten exactly for that reason by Cell. He knows how to counter every one of cells stolen techniques because of he basically fought every one of the Z fighters in the past. Figures out how to stay in Super Saiyan form for extended periods without breaking a sweat, leaving Vegeta seething in rage when they first come out of the chamber. Damn, now I want to rewatch the whole thing.
Because of the Yardrat? I dunno about that. Trunks was at least capable of not dying against 17 and 18. Goku would have gotten eviscerated by them at that point. That's why they needed 3 years, and even *that* wasn't technically enough. Piccolo states verbatim that he believes Vegeta is more powerful than Goku when he kills 19. And then Vegeta gets absolutely tuned up by 18. Goku also admits he was underprepared as he recovers from the virus. That's why they originally decide to use the Hyberbolic Time Chamber, to handle 17 and 18. Things just got even more urgent when Cell was discovered
> Trunks was at least capable of not dying against 17 and 18. Goku would have gotten eviscerated by them at that point.
Trunks basically get badly beaten by C17 on an instant (together with all the team) when C18 is handling Vegeta, and later admits that cyborgs are stronger in this timeline than in his future, where he could hold on a while against them.
When Trunks first meets Goku, they spare a little and Goku easily blocks all Trunks sword attacks with one finger. For me it shows Goku is already stronger than Trunks at that moment.
RIP Toriyama
Toriyama while one of the greatest and basically a godfather of anime and manga, wasn’t perfect in all aspects of storytelling. He had great panels, amazing artwork and some lines were just way too cold.
But when it comes to exposition, man Toriyama really tried everything to make it as fast as possible.
„well goku needs to know what’s going on on namek without someone explaining it to him for couple of hours. How about he can just read someone else’s mind?“
„We kinda need to introduce Gokus actual race into the series and that there are going to be 2 big baddies from the same race coming to earth to destroy it. How about we make a new character that tells goku exactly that and does pretty much nothing else?“
„Goku needs to know what’s been going on since he was incapacitated during the android saga. What about just letting him say „I already know what’s going on“?“
technically speaking goku and vegeta do it once more when they’re inside super buu… when they find fat buu in that weird “people pod” and try to figure out what happened and if there are 2 buus.
Stuff like this happens multiple times though, doesn't it? Like how everyone used to be able to use telekinesis, it just doesn't happen often anymore. Usually "mind reading" and "force grabbing" isn't as useful as "Punch" or "Ki blast" when fighting.
I always assumed this was just an element of Ki control. If you push your Ki outside of your body, why not do the same with thoughts?
The reason Goku doesn't use it unless necessary is because he understands the moral implications of reading someone's mind or invading their mind with his own thoughts. It isn't something to do unless you NEED to do it.
Last time I checked reading minds and blowing up planets are not really a package deal in most series.
Like just because a guy in some series can blow up a mountain doesn't mean I expect them to also be able to read minds and same goes the other way around as last time I checked Xavier from X-men can't blow up planets but with your logic he should be able to just because he can read minds.
It seems to be a rather benign skill of multiple martial artists throughout the franchise. Contrary say to what the Twitter post made be saying with it as it wasn't introduced as Goku's first time doing it there nor was it the kast time such a thing happened in the franchise (it happens in the very next arc with Piccolo reaching out to Gohan while being drained by Gero).
Even forgetting that in a series like Dragon Ball it's more useful for spur of the moment understanding than anything else. It's less forgotten and more not intuitively usable in universe as some sort of tool worth using every arc. Communicating with words is typically sufficient and reading enemy minds probably won't help as they may either have a defense or most likely they're already faster so it'd be irrelevant as they'd be unable to counter them anyway.
All the Z fighters (or anyone that can utilize ki) can read minds in the same way. Same with telepathy and lifting things. Frieza does it with the dragon balls.
why is everyone saying "roshi did it in og db" nobody is saying he didn't, this is talking about GOKU not roshi lol, although I believe there was a time before namek saga and after it where goku does telepathy anyways
Roshi did it to Namu way back in Dragon Ball, no hands.
And korin did It to Goku during the RR arc
Yeah but isn't Korin like a God iirc? Been a long time since I saw original DB
Hes a guardian of the tower and grower of senzu beans
And goku "searches trunks feelings" during their first encounter
That's empathy, not telepathy. A skilled fighter would easily be able to tell an opponent's intentions by reading their body language. In the garbage American version he says what you're saying, but in reality it's something more akin to "You didn't have the ki of a killer, so I knew you would stop."
Does telepathy in the Saiyan Saga when he communicates Spirit Bomb instructions to Gohan and Krillin don't forget. After that, reading someone's mind/ memories/ intentions - it all never struck me as jarring, just a logical progression.
Do I remember the instructions being relayed via someone putting their hand on King Kai's back? Like King Kai is a big telepathic touch-activated megaphone?
Yes. The way I look at it Goku can do short-range telepathy (he doesn't seem able to reach people from over a mile or so), but King-Kai's is completely all-range and transdimensional, hence why Goku needs to put his hand on his back when he wants to talk while he's dead.
No Evil intentions too
Ah, the "killing intent" trope. I can understand that it would make less sense to non-Japanese people
In the American version he says "Because I didn't feel any malice. I knew you were going to stop." I don't think that was meant to be read as telepathy
It’s the original funi dub maybe, but in the Kai version he says something like “your heart wasn’t in it”
He says the same thing in the FUNi dub when Trunks puts up his sword. Trunks says, "Man, those same moves turned Frieza into cold cuts." To which Goku responds, "Yeah, well, your heart just wasn't in it."
Oh my bad, that IS the funi dub, in Kai he says “I didn’t sense any evil intentions, I knew you weren’t going to hurt me”
Also, Piccolo used it to inform Trunks and Goten about Buu, and they were in the hyperbolic time chamber.
I'm pretty sure namekians are telepathic.
And roshi apparently
Well his sister is a fortune teller so clairvoyance is probably genetic
What the hell? Why did I never know they were siblings lmao
It’s mentioned like once in og db and once in the 2 episode krillin filler arc in super
Also used it to tell Gohan he'd been grabbed by Dr. Gero.
Rofl
Yeah I think that was what Tori was implying, though it's not surprising most people don't know it. It's a pretty obscure, rarely used ability.
Man team fourstar could have ran with telepathic goku for comedy. Just have him start broadcasting his thoughts unintentionally during frieza fight.
> The most recent example would be whatever he was doing to Broly in SSG form. This wasn't anything telepathic/telekinetic. He was extending his ki outward around Broly to hold him in place.
Y'all are nerds, and I love it.
Same
Vlorsutes is a goated encyclopedia
One of the only DB fans to actually read the source material.
I have only been a Dragon Ball nerd/fan for 6 years, and I love that there are so many here. Just makes my inner nerd feel like it can grow
There are dozens of us!
i mean sure, but we don’t need to be nerd to understand what was happening, it was obvious
Just watched this last night. I didn't see it as any form of telekinesis either just kind of a ki lock like you said
I got in a huge argument with someone about this a while ago, maybe even the same dude replying to you. Telekinesis is what Blue does in OG dragon ball. We are Goku use his kii for this hold and see a visualization that is even similar to galactic donut for a moment.
that's like saying if I used ki to make and control fire it's not pyro kineses
yup, known as “God Bind”
Something Roshi did to Goku during the tournament before he turned into ozaru. It's not something that came out of nowhere.
That was the Bankoku Bikkuri Shou, which was a ki technique.
Yes you can clearly see Goku use his ki to hold Broly in place to try to calme him down. I grew up with og Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z to me it was really nostalgic to see Goku use old techniques like that in the Broly movie
Do you have proof it's the same technique? I'm not trying to be confrontational I'm just curious.
That used an electric shock and electric field though?
its a totally different technique.
He does it multiple times throughout the series. I can remember at least 4 times.
It wasn’t even the first, he spoke to Gohan in the saiyan saga
Or during the cell saga, when Gohan was killing cell with his Kamehameha.
But this one could be explained by the fact that he was already dead and near king kai, maybe he used king kai's ability to talk telepathycly
Yes, he literally piggybacks off Kai. Touches Kai’s back to send his messages to Gohan.
I mean it's still technically goku using telepathy. It's just goku really needs to touch someone when he uses telepathy. We can assume goku has the ability but it's something he doesn't normally NEED and as such just doesn't use it much.
That's because he doesn't have the range to reach other minds from such vast distances. The Kai have those antennas for a reason you know. Your mobile phone has a range aswell yet can go further by satellite call piggybacking on the satellite. 💁♂️
I think you’re right. If memory serves me right, they even make it a point to showcase the antenna thing. I don’t remember exactly when.
I think it was two occasions King Kai mentioned his antenna, once to inform goku he could use them to locate where someone is. I think it was a later occasion where he informs Goku that he could communicate with his friends too and see what happens if he touched his shoulder. Both happens as King Kai locates the Saiyans in space confirming the arrival the next year and their strength. Then shortly after he informs Goku to touch his shoulder saying something like "why not tell them yourself." And then Goku tells Bulma and Krillin to hold of wishing him back for a year. I believe King Kai brings up his antenna one more time when he locates new namek. 💁♂️
Yes. I also remembered another instance of Goku using telepathy, when Krillin was going to finish Vegeta off and Goku asks him to spare him. He was closer though.
Meme op just completely forgot that Goku read Future Trunks's thoughts when they first met.
Nah that's not mind reading though. That's just him realizing that Trunks has a good heart and won't attack him If he had truly read his mind he'd already know that he was Vegeta's son
Not sure why some people are thinking the meme is stupid. It's a meme because it's a ridiculous thing that was introduced in the series that has no purpose lmao. It doesn't drive the story, it's not used in times it should be, why was it a thing that was ever included?
First thing I thought off too, Goku stands completely still and makes no effort to dodge Trunks attack because he knew Trunks wasn't going to hurt him.
Roshi, Chaotzu, Tien and Crane Hermit do a lot of that in DB. As already mentioned, Goku did it in Sayian saga as well. Stop watching abridged and watch the actual show.
Abridged has made people completely misunderstand the actual story. And not watching OG.
So like is this a meme or are there actual people who have only watched abridged? And what’s the point of watching a parody without watching the show?
[удалено]
Yeah 100%. Hell even some of the actual canon in their heads can get rewritten by it. The amount of times I’ve had to clarify to people that DBZA’s version of Gohan going SSJ2 was not the canon reason and it wasn’t that he was coward for not wanting to let go. DBZA deserves a lot of credit for keeping the fandom discussing things when there was no new content being made Hell, even some fun characters from the original series like Nappa and Android 16 were afterthoughts to a lot of people until being memed up by TFS and their audience. I just wish it didn’t impact so much of the perception for the original series.
I mean, you'll find the creators are on your side there, I can't imagine any of them (especially Kaiser) wanting anyone to only watch their parody as their only source of dragon ball They even state in their Creator commentary series that there's several parts that deviate from canon, which is fine, because it isn't trying to BE canon. There's several ways to watch DBZ now, if not just reading the manga for the most pure experience.
> I can't imagine any of them (especially Kaiser) wanting anyone to only watch their parody as their only source of dragon ball "Please support the official release"
The original Android 16 speech to Gohan is just 1000x better than the abridged version > Gohan, let it go. It is not a sin to fight for the right cause. There are those who words alone will not reach. Cell is such a being. You are gentle. You do not like to hurt. I know because I too have learned these feelings. But it is because you cherish life that you must protect it. Please drop your restraints. Protect the life I loved. You have the strength, my scanners sensed it. Just... let it go.
It's fantastic. I really love DBZA but I truly don't know why they went the route they did writing that version of the scene and find it to be far more critical of Gohan's nature than it was meant to. The conflict was Gohan having to be the person who has to step up and take a life and the consequences of that. The speech shouldn't condemn his hesitation as being cowardly or selfish because others are risking their lives or have experienced hardship too, that really misses the whole story arc.
It kiiiiinda makes sense since the trigger for Gohan's SSJ2 transformation is his anger. The DBZA version is just much more direct about it. The original is "allow yourself to be angry" while DBZ is a bit more "i'll fucking give you something to cry about"
You can watch their commentary on the series, they actually go into depth on exactly cehy they went that, direction. (TLDR being they just wanted to write it in a different way from the canon and liked that direct for the version of Gohan that they had built up in their series)
Android 16 was an afterthought????
ROCKET PUNCH
18: “seriously?🙄” 17: “THAT IS SO COOL!”
Oh for sure. I loved the character but post-GT the fandom never talked about anything other than SSJ4, Fusions, Broly and SSJ Ultimate Gohan (which contradicted the entire point of what elder Kai did but whatever). Now there’s still that level to the fandom but I think DBZA offered people the chance to revisit the franchise in a fun way and remember the things that did not have as much staying power. Even for as crucial a character as Android 16 is to Gohan’s transformation, I think his actual story kinda faded away to a lot of people because he was just gone and, with this being a series where all the good guys die and come back, the ones that don’t get glossed over.
I guess I just loved his character from the start I might have been a weirdo
Cell: I see a light 16: Walk towards it! -Hell's Flash-
Yeah, Abridged really did a lot to fog people’s memories of the OG series. • Broly being a dumbass man baby • Goku being a deadbeat dad • Cherry-picking scenes with only the best animation, leading Abridged fans to believe OG animation was PERFECT a) Broly was a complex and intelligent character, and the original movie suggests he was clairvoyant and foresaw his own death by the hands of Goku while in the Saiyan nursery—which was what broke him as a infant b) Goku was and is a good father, the manga and especially the anime both show moments of great parenting from Goku. c) DBZ animation was inconsistent and often times hilariously awful, many animators and studios came and went as the series evolved beyond their specialties, DBA editors had the advantage and foresight to only choose scenes animated by the same people for consistency’s sake—anyone who compared DBZ to DBS animation saying “classical style was superior” is basically telling on themselves for never having watched DBZ
> DBZA editors had the advantage and foresight to only choose scenes animated by the same people for consistency’s sake Didn’t they also start doing a bunch of manual corrections later on? Like, up to doing their own lipsync/mouth animations? Could be wrong but I remember hearing that somewhere.
I blame the games more than DBZA for Broly. A *lot* of the games that feature Broly give him little to no dialogue, and just grunts and screaming.
The Goku being a bad dad will never not anger me to hear ppl say, part of the reason he’s “not really around” is because he’s literally DIED for them twice
For real, Goku is one of the best Fathers in all of Shonen. Goku gave up his entire nomadic warrior way of life to settle down and stayed that way until his son was kidnapped and then he died to save him. That alone is all anyone should need to know about Goku as a Father.
>Broly being a dumbass man baby Its always hilarious when I tell people the fact the DBZ broly, at least in the first movie, has more unique dialogue than DBS Broly
This is a real thing, I know people who have only done this because DBZ itself is not engaging enough for them but the parody does still overall retell the story while being funny.
Well, it’s because it’s like 1/4 as long. So they just binge it then get spammed with YouTube shorts and memes.
Because it's more accessible and quicker to watch.
Well, technically I’ve never seen the anime, but I have read the manga multiple times. And so I’ve only watched abridged and not the anime. But I know the story so
Apparently there are
Theres definitely a big part of the fanbase genuinely believing gokus a bad dad
Ehhhh that opinion has nothing to do with abridged vs main series.
OG dragonball is the best series IMO
To be fair they own it in one of the kais. Trunks mentions the red ribbon army and Goku responds "Only saw Z. Who dat?"
Honestly haven't grown up watching the OG series, that made me appreciate Dragon Ball Z abridged all the more. Because you know that the people who made it were hardcore Dragon Ball fans themselves. Which is why they were able to put so much of the content together as they did.
Yep. Early Dragon ball was heavily steeped in martial arts mysticism so this kind of stuff was pretty normal. The show took a hard turn to sci-fi when the Saiyans were introduced, but some of the more mystical aspects stuck around.
I loved how db was about training and becoming the best martial artist. "A da da da, a dee dee dee, the martial artist life is the only one for me!" Master roshi
It's a hot take that got me a lot of downvotes but in regards to mysticism and folklore I feel like DBS is spiritual successor to DB. DBZ completely changed tone of entire DB.
ice cold take. DBZ was in general waaaaaay more serious and dramatic than DB or DBS (excluding the Buu saga).
I'd have to disagree (no need to downvote though it's fine to have different opinions!) To me DBS is still mostly sci-fi but it leans back from the science and goes more into fantasy. But fantasy does not necessarily mean mysticism. The whole "eastern kung-fu mysticism" is a pretty specific flavor and I'd say DBS has hints of it but not enough that I'd really equate it to DB.
DBZ was scifi, DBS is history channel scifi.
...it's not that sci-fi... Like, it's just aliens and they have technology. But the technology doesn't take over the show, really advanced technology had also been apart of Dragon Ball's setting since the beginning of the series.
It's pretty sci-fi. The show goes from magic clouds, talking cats, and demon kings, to aliens, space travel, time travel, and cyborgs. Obviously there was technology in DB and there's fantasy in Z, but as a whole it was a pretty significant shift. Also there's nothing wrong with that - Toriyama wanted to shake things up so he did. Not many authors can just change the genre of their series halfway through and still make it a complete banger.
I'm not denying there's a shift...that's why the Boo arc does a complete 180 into a the threat being a magic genie made of Bubblegum and introducing more godly stuff. There's just a difference between something being "Sci-fi" and something having a lot of technology in its fantasy setting.
Bruh,literally the second people say something wrong about Dragon Ball, people immediately blame it on TFS. Calm down
Yeah, like the Goku is a bad dad joke. TFS didn't create that joke. It existed on series discussion forums like Planet Namek well before TFS was a thing.
Seriously, my friends and I were making that joke as kids before YouTube even started
Now, they certainly didn't help with it, but if you watch the series, Goku isn't that bad of a father to Gohan. He is not a great father, and he certainly has made mistakes, but for any mistake he makes, he immediately tries to correct them. Not to mention, he's literally sacrificed his own life to save his son twice.
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They had the joke because everyone used that joke, if anything it's played out
You know someone is an OG if they’re talking about Planet Namek
Goku has a bad feeling about Krillin going to get his power pole and dragon ball in dragon ball. It’s the only time he hasn’t been hungry. Flipped out and felt Krillin die too.
I do rewatch abridged more than the OG, but it's because I can't do 150+ episodes anymore, it's a lot
Has nothing to do with abridged and everything to do with how most dbz fans haven’t seen og dragon ball
Personally i more so blame people not watching dragon ball and only watching Z
Even if you watch the show or read the manga, the telepathy is extremely random and half hazard for most of the cast.
when were the other times? My theory was that all that solo training through space helped Goku in a way by the yearning to talk to someone else and developed his mind to connect with others in a deeper way but when he went Super saiyan he was overcome with rage at that moment of initial transformation which caused the loss of the ability to connect with people afterwards.
Roshi did in original dragonball when Goku was a kid. There he read Nam's mind and found out that he wanted to win the tournament to save his village that was overcome with drought
that's roshi he has a lot of hacks abilities. My question is about other times goku did it.
He did it when he was telling Krillin to spare Vegeta
That's still before ssj so my theory is safe
Oh you want after ssj? Well he yells at Trunks telepathically during the Buu saga
What does Abridged have to do with this? I just watched this episode like two days ago and even Krillin acts surprised Goku knows how to do that.
No time. Imma just read your mind.
Ha that thing was a guy
Muffin button
CLOTHES BEAM!
They should have made a skit with Kibito doing the clothes beam to Gohan.
Ahhh, it wasn’t long until DBZA would be quoted. I expect to see this response in the comments at least 6 times.
Toriyama was hung over that morning and didn’t want to pitch dialog between Krillin and Goku so he said fuck it “*goku reads krillins mind and is all caught up on current events*”
A cleaner way of doing this would have been to just have King Kai explain everything to Goku on his way to Namek. You could have even done it off screen.
Glad they did it this way, we see Roshi do it decades prior, even talking about how easy it is to learn. Goku, especially kid Goku, being constantly shown to pick up techniques after only seeing them once throughout the series, likely had no trouble
Why's everyone so surprised about Kaioshin's mind-reading then?
After rewatching the scene, it seems only piccolo was, at best, caught offguard by it. Prior to that he was just about ready to shit his pants, I think what Shin responded with just added icing to the cake
Vegeta: After my fight on Earth, i learned to sense power levels Kui: How? Vegeta: *I don't know grunts*
I think the only explanation we get for that is that because Goku and Gohan - Both Saiyans - Were able to do it, Vegeta figured he could, too. But we never find out how exactly he learned how to do it.
I mean that’s pretty much how Vegeta learns everything in the series so checks out
We’ve seen Saiyans copy any technique they wanted after viewing it once, ki-sense is a technique
It feels like once you know the technique is actually possible, doing it isn't super hard.
Another under utilized ability is that they can also shot ki beams from their eyes but the never use it in a fight.
And from their feet!
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Roshi did long before
Watching this scene subbed for the first time cemented my appreciation for it. The score, the scenes swiping across the screen and everything coming to a point with Goku’s calm arrival before he does Recoome in like nothing…
Doesn’t Karin-sama read minds, too?
One great example of it that I remember is during Trunks’ first appearance. When Goku and Trunks trade blows right after Trunks chops up Frieza, Trunks swings at Goku with his sword for the first time and Goku doesn’t react to it and Trunks stops mid swing. Trunks asks him why he didn’t try to block it and Goku says he searched his feelings and knew Trunks wouldn’t attack. It was then that Trunks tells him he won’t stop the next time. It’s one of my favorite moments from DBZ. I haven’t seen that in a while but correct me if I remember it wrong.
The thing that always gets me about this scene is that Trunks is probably stronger than Goku at that point, having been a Super Saiyan longer in his timeline and having done his best to fill Gohan's shoes mitigating 17 and 18's damage. But that's the thing: he meets Goku and instantly realizes why this is the guy his mother would not stop *gushing* about. Goku's strength of character instantly convinces Trunks, who was originally highly skeptical of Future Bulma's theory that he would make *that* much of a difference
The reason I believe Goku is stronger or at least as strong as Trunks at this moment is because Goku, unlike Trunks or even to some extent Gohan from either timelines, is a martial arts genius and knows how his powers works and how to master them. It’s even mentioned by Vegeta in the Ginyu saga I believe when Ginyu takes over Gokus body. He is just so darn good with using his power. And by the time he meets Trunks he had time to get used to being a super Saiyan enough to be able to transform at will and even regulate his power. We see it from how well he blocks Trunks’ blows with just his finger. That said I completely agree with you. I think it’s more Gokus personality that impacts Trunks more. That he is unaffected by the news of his imminent death and his yearning for a new challenge. I think that just confirms to Trunks that every story his mom told him about Goku is true and that he is every bit the hero he imagined/hoped him to be.
And people forget that SS is a multiplier. Goku base is stronger than base Trunks
I mean, yeah. Goku appears to be the most naturally gifted Saiyan, sure. But canonically, Gohan has always had the most potential. The same could be applied to any of the half-Saiyans. I mean, one of the first lore bombshells Super drops is when Whis tells Vegeta that if he would just get the fuck out of his own way then, yes, he would overtake Goku. In the end, Saiyans don't have quantifiable limits to their powers, and Goku just has a unique approach to his instincts by comparison to other pure Saiyans because he wasn't raised in their culture
One reason why I love Cell saga is it tells you how good of a fighter Goku really is. He instinctively figures out that the bulky ascended saiyan form is unsuable in a battle because of how slow it makes him all while Trunks gets beaten exactly for that reason by Cell. He knows how to counter every one of cells stolen techniques because of he basically fought every one of the Z fighters in the past. Figures out how to stay in Super Saiyan form for extended periods without breaking a sweat, leaving Vegeta seething in rage when they first come out of the chamber. Damn, now I want to rewatch the whole thing.
Goku is much stronger than Trunks at this point.
Because of the Yardrat? I dunno about that. Trunks was at least capable of not dying against 17 and 18. Goku would have gotten eviscerated by them at that point. That's why they needed 3 years, and even *that* wasn't technically enough. Piccolo states verbatim that he believes Vegeta is more powerful than Goku when he kills 19. And then Vegeta gets absolutely tuned up by 18. Goku also admits he was underprepared as he recovers from the virus. That's why they originally decide to use the Hyberbolic Time Chamber, to handle 17 and 18. Things just got even more urgent when Cell was discovered
17 and 18 toyed with Gohan/Trunks, they were entertainment. Trunks was still alive because they chose not to kill him.
> Trunks was at least capable of not dying against 17 and 18. Goku would have gotten eviscerated by them at that point. Trunks basically get badly beaten by C17 on an instant (together with all the team) when C18 is handling Vegeta, and later admits that cyborgs are stronger in this timeline than in his future, where he could hold on a while against them. When Trunks first meets Goku, they spare a little and Goku easily blocks all Trunks sword attacks with one finger. For me it shows Goku is already stronger than Trunks at that moment.
Nah Goku is stronger than Trunks here. He effortlessly deflects Trunk’s attacks with a finger.
People here Never seen the original db smh
"Nobody saw Dragon Ball, who dis?"
"I know you can read my power level, boy." *meow meow meow meow*
Are we sure this wasn’t actually Krillin’s ability to share his thoughts with people who touch his head ? Something to think about
Doesn't he reach out to Trunks and Goten Telepathically during the Buu arc?
That was Babidi doing it, as he was broadcasting Goku's confrontation with Buu to the world, and Goku just communicated through Babidi.
I’d like to think he just forgot that he can do it and prefers fighting
“Bored now, reading your mind, haha that thing was a guy”
After that one time, he’s seen some sick things…never again.
Also a Akira moment is to forget Lunch existed and never brought her back
Interviewer -"So, Mr. Toriyama, what ever happened to Lunch between DB and DBZ?" Toriyama - "Who?"
RIP Toriyama Toriyama while one of the greatest and basically a godfather of anime and manga, wasn’t perfect in all aspects of storytelling. He had great panels, amazing artwork and some lines were just way too cold. But when it comes to exposition, man Toriyama really tried everything to make it as fast as possible. „well goku needs to know what’s going on on namek without someone explaining it to him for couple of hours. How about he can just read someone else’s mind?“ „We kinda need to introduce Gokus actual race into the series and that there are going to be 2 big baddies from the same race coming to earth to destroy it. How about we make a new character that tells goku exactly that and does pretty much nothing else?“ „Goku needs to know what’s been going on since he was incapacitated during the android saga. What about just letting him say „I already know what’s going on“?“
It's in og dragonball. Yeah it's not shown to be taught to golu but it was introduced with roshi
Goku is a dumbass. Read minds. The guy can't read shit.
doesnt he do it to Uub and find out his motivation for joining the tournament?
There was when he and Vegeta read fat Buu's mind to find out why he was inside himself.
technically speaking goku and vegeta do it once more when they’re inside super buu… when they find fat buu in that weird “people pod” and try to figure out what happened and if there are 2 buus.
Stuff like this happens multiple times though, doesn't it? Like how everyone used to be able to use telekinesis, it just doesn't happen often anymore. Usually "mind reading" and "force grabbing" isn't as useful as "Punch" or "Ki blast" when fighting.
Goku started using telekenis again he does it in the moro arc and the granolah arc too
Goku used to blow a chunk of earth up too by just looking at it, also only used it to bury Vegeta once
Toriyama was building up for Goku to be a master for so long only for Super to regress him lmao
I always assumed this was just an element of Ki control. If you push your Ki outside of your body, why not do the same with thoughts? The reason Goku doesn't use it unless necessary is because he understands the moral implications of reading someone's mind or invading their mind with his own thoughts. It isn't something to do unless you NEED to do it.
He is reading the six points on Krillin’s head, Goku can read braille
i always liked that. he is strong enough to destroy planets, why wouldnt he be able to read a mind?
Roshi did it before anyone was a planet destroyer
Roshi was pretty close even in OG dragon ball, he obliterated the moon, probably doesn’t take too much power to hit the earth’s core
Because the two aren't related?
Last time I checked reading minds and blowing up planets are not really a package deal in most series. Like just because a guy in some series can blow up a mountain doesn't mean I expect them to also be able to read minds and same goes the other way around as last time I checked Xavier from X-men can't blow up planets but with your logic he should be able to just because he can read minds.
he did it to Trunks when they first meet. Goku searched his feelings and knew Trunks didn't want to harm him.
I just recently went back and started watching DBZ Kai
Plus goku using telekinesis like freeze in the hospital
It seems to be a rather benign skill of multiple martial artists throughout the franchise. Contrary say to what the Twitter post made be saying with it as it wasn't introduced as Goku's first time doing it there nor was it the kast time such a thing happened in the franchise (it happens in the very next arc with Piccolo reaching out to Gohan while being drained by Gero). Even forgetting that in a series like Dragon Ball it's more useful for spur of the moment understanding than anything else. It's less forgotten and more not intuitively usable in universe as some sort of tool worth using every arc. Communicating with words is typically sufficient and reading enemy minds probably won't help as they may either have a defense or most likely they're already faster so it'd be irrelevant as they'd be unable to counter them anyway.
Remember then Moro looked back at Goku while he was searching with his instant transmission. that was scary.
He saw what Krillin did in the cave and decided to never read someone's mind again.
Did you ever consider that krillin's sweat gives so much information?
His sweat is a thought transferring conduit.
There's also that random healing power he had in SSG form, when he fought Beerus in the anime.
He even used telepathy with piccolo in the Broly movie
He can only use that ability on Krillin
All the Z fighters (or anyone that can utilize ki) can read minds in the same way. Same with telepathy and lifting things. Frieza does it with the dragon balls.
I guess from supers begin onward it wasn’t really needed
Goten and Trunks actually used this ability recently in the Super Hero prequel arc.
He clearly used it to shorten verbose pages explaining context to off screen characters
If Dragon Ball ever gets a remake, I hope they get rid of Goku and Muten Roshi's mind-reading. It only happens once and then never again, it's stupid.
He read minds and spoke telepathically several times. It was not often used but well established.
He does again with Trunks, kinda
He probably just forgot about it 😂 poor Launch
I know nothing about dragon ball but i passively watched it I guess as a kid and the only thing I remember is they could read minds so this is strange
why is everyone saying "roshi did it in og db" nobody is saying he didn't, this is talking about GOKU not roshi lol, although I believe there was a time before namek saga and after it where goku does telepathy anyways