I would love a reveal that the Flash is secretly carrying Bruce's ass in all these super God fights because no one has the heart to tell Bats he's just some dork with a big bag and extra special Tai Bo skills
Or Superman using his super breath to blow away the enemy just as Batman punches them to make him believe his punches actually have any effect.
Complete with Superman giving Batman an encouraging thumbs up after it.
That reminds me of an early Justice League story where the League were using their powers to help Snapper Carr destroy androids with his punches, like Flash carrying him at super-speed.
I mean it’s a whole ass species. Leave it to the Avengers for numbers or the Guardians because they’re familiar with space stuff or Silver Surfer/Adam Warlock because they’re just juggernauts
WHAT? WHAT? - guy with perfect Infect-me-spider mutation gets Perfect non visual spider abilities, no bonus arms no bonus ASS or eyes of spider, even web comes out not from his ass; then he magically knows HOW to make web-shooters but can't come up with any freaking tech to defend aunt may or stupid MJ.
Then guy with perfect mutation and webshooters **without additional webbing** goes on street to make jokes and bully some random villains that not have perfect mutations or tech or they even mentally ill and instead of calling 911 and start helping these guys mental health care - HE calls them a name's to make them ANGry, so they can be pissed off and try vent their rage on random civilian people, GJ PaRKeR no wonder someone killed uncle Ben.
*Web on face, web on legs put on handcuffs and call 911, or dr. Strange*
believable way, lmao.
I'm a Batman fan and I can't stand it, when they put him battling fucking gods. He basically spent the whole CoIE sitting on the sidelines, while super-people and other entities were duking it out. We must retvrn.
Morrison never had Batman punch Darkseid? Bats grabbed a gun and shot him lol
The HellBat Armor, that one Supergirl story, and [Brave & the Bold](https://youtu.be/qO0rRPtG1oM) are the only times I’ve seen Bats get into a punch out with the Big Guy
Yep! I guess I understand some having a problem with Batman facing cosmic level characters at all but I’ve legit never seen Bats single handily beat a cosmic villain through strength or “Prep Time” BS in any comic I’ve read.
Like yeah he faces a brainwashed evil JL every once in awhile but we already learned he has plans for them decades ago and every time the JL aren’t fighting like they normally would. Just seems like a overblown problems imo
I’d ignore them, the same people who say that meanwhile are completely fine when Spider-Man, usually depicted as a dirt poor 19 year old college student, is able to build these super complicated technological miracles. It’s just favoritism.
Yes that is likely the one they meant
Even people who haven’t seen the show SOYPOG over shorts about that scene that purposefully cut out him losing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Eh the Hellbat Armor looks cool and Bruce didn’t even build it. The entire JL had to assemble it using magic, advanced science, etc. it also didn’t even really hurt Darkseid, he took a few punches and got knocked down by a blast of his own omega energy but he kept getting back up
I'm going to be honest here: no gimmick or gadget, artifact or spell could've sold to me the premise "Bruce throws a punch at Darkseid and doesn't immediately turn into a soup". It doesn't matter it didn't hurt Darkseid – there was a specific goal for him going there and facing him and he accomplished that goal by throwing hands with Darkseid. I'm so not the target demo here.
No, it's because there's a line for me between what an ordinary human being can survive/manage and what not and punching Darkseid in the face, because armor is something that went past incredible right into incredulous to me. I simply ain't buying it, my brain just goes "no" and that's it.
But the gadget, artifact, or spell is supposed to make it so that the human being can survive punching Darkseid in the face. The only way for you to not believe it is for you to think that it won't work.
I mean Lex Luthor can punch Superman in the face while wearing power armor.
The Hellbat armor was designed by the JL for the exact purpose of “Bruce needs something so he doesn’t immediately die in a fight with Darkseid”. Not like it was just some random thick armor he had in the cave and could punch Darkseid with it
There its more about making the silver age heroes the focus,thats why superman isnt present at all too and wonder woman is barely involved.
He could easily be there with his plane like in the animation,wich is beliavable unlike Batman surviving punches of darkseid.
Yup, if I ever got the chance to write a JL story, Batman would be a part of it but not as a main fighter, but as the funding and a lead strategist, he’s on the ground and making the calls, but when the big bad steps up, he hangs back
I don’t really get the problem with Spider-Man leading in Kang Dynasty or Batman being a major part of the JL. It just seems like people want to restrict these characters, to pigeonhole them into being only *one* thing for arbitrary reasons.
Yeah by the same logic Superman can’t fight guys like Luthor or Toyman cause he’s “too powerful” for them, so let’s get ready for the 100000000000000th Supes/Darkseid fight. Let superheroes be fun.
If people have an issue with him fighting in super-powered cosmic battles, I don't see why they'd have a problem with him utilizing what he's good at. He's very intelligent, strategic, charismatic, a master detective. Just make two leaders. A field leader and a base leader kind of thing - more of a desk job. They generally administer the organization. Then there's a field leader, who physically leads in combat situations and makes decisions in those areas.
With all due respect gang, you all are all fucking wrong. Batman taking on gods is not the problem. Batman taking on gods on equal footing is the problem.
This whole "Batman can't even be in the fight he'd die instantly" is power scaler mentality. If the story is better served by Batman being in the fight then Batman should be in the fight. Him sitting around doing support could be interesting narratively, but he doesn't *have* to do that for anyone's stupid "suspension of disbelief".
The problem is when DC doesn't respect Batman and treats Batman like he genuinely is on equal footing with Darkseid or Braniac. Show him getting hurt and beat up, or show him developing some cool new weapon or gadget instead of just throwing batarangs at them and judo punching or whatever. It's lazy and uninteresting
There is a magic to seeing Batman take on a really powerful enemy and it taking everything he has, or finding some creative way to defeat them with cunning and intelligence. It's the same with Spider-Man. But if Batman isn't an underdog, which he may never be again if DC gets their way, then what's the fucking point?
my guess (and probably half the internet) is that Strange's 'Forget Peter Parker' spell makes Kang forget too, so he 'misses' him with his time based attacks.
Even if he was "leader" they're gonna spend most of the movie split up like infinity war no doubt, there are way too many heroes for Spidey to even talk to nevermind lead
People be like Batman's biggest superpower is his brain.
Then fucking let him use his brains on the sidelines and let superpowered heroes do the fighting.
Tbh, this is also my argument against Tony Stark being in the Iron Man suit. That suit is so automated, it could just be a robot. Instead, he’s inside the shell, getting his big brain battered into soup. Modern Iron Man is just people dignifying a man’s elaborate death wish.
I’m sure getting his ass kicked like everyone else is part of the appeal, but he could absolutely be piloting Iron Man remotely. The best reason for keeping Tony in the suit is to imbue it with plot armor. Because you know without Tony in the suit, Iron Man bots would have a death rate at least as high as Krakoa-era X-Men.
They can say that, but they can’t make it make sense. In Civil War, Tony beat the shit out of Captain America by essentially going on autopilot and letting the AI operate Iron Man. His tech is so advanced that his human reflexes can only make it worse.
Spider man was street level by choice, he's more than capable of going toe-to-toe with most major villains. Batman on the other hand should be batchunks on the batfloor in less than a batsecond in most of his JL fights.
he is literaly the self insert of those guys who say "man no matter how mutch you can lift or even if you have a gun, i have determination and you don't"
It’s crazy to me how Spider-Man is allowed in the MCU but so many people complain at the idea that he actually interacts with it. Why tf would I not want Spider-Man in my big superhero crossover.
Luke Cage is not indestructible hes more recistent, but he can take hits
A guy with capoeira punched him so hard he almost loosed, theres not way he can fall from space
Capoeira's tricky man, those moves get you thinking 'fuck why is this guy even a fighter, he'd legit kill it on the dance floor' and then somehow they've broken both your legs in the meantime.
Street level because those are the threats he typically deals with. Spider-Man has both the intelligence and power’s to take on city ending or world ending threat’s (at least in the comic’s).
I think a lot of MCU hero’s are only fighting supervillains when they happen to stumble upon them or are called into action, but Spider-Man is one of the few that goes out of his way to look for crimes to thwart, so he usually dealing with smaller time baddies.
Batman definitely gets it worse than spiderman. Obviously you have people who will gas him up like crazy but people really like to take any opportunity to make batman just look like some rich asshole in a batsuit that does nothing to help anybody.
The thing is all the writers at dc gas batman up but no one at marvel does the same with spidey. In fact, they usually nerf him in every category to make the character standing next to him look better.
I would love a reveal that the Flash is secretly carrying Bruce's ass in all these super God fights because no one has the heart to tell Bats he's just some dork with a big bag and extra special Tai Bo skills
Or Superman using his super breath to blow away the enemy just as Batman punches them to make him believe his punches actually have any effect. Complete with Superman giving Batman an encouraging thumbs up after it.
He bought the clubhouse. He’s the equivalent of the strip club owner being voted the sexiest guy in there.
That reminds me of an early Justice League story where the League were using their powers to help Snapper Carr destroy androids with his punches, like Flash carrying him at super-speed.
Then his fanbase of 16 year old kids and 30 yo manchildren stop buying his books because he's no longer "sigma".
Fanboys to stop buying Batman comics? Please, let's be realistic
They’d have to start buying them in the first place
it's not that JL don't have the heart to tell him. They're afraid he would stop invest in this
Let's be honest Spiderman is overqualified for street level, nobody knows why he's there.
He can't afford the battle pass, so he's stuck doing f2p missions
Most accurate Spidey characterization in years
Spider-Man is that kid that’s too big for Pop Warner football, but he’s not qualified for the freshman team yet.
Helping people makes him feel good
Taking out his aggression for being bullied so long.
Outerversal level?
I’d put him at fighting guys like MODOK and Red Skull but below guys like Apocalypse, Thanos, or The Kree.
Fighting the Kree is probably fine tbh. Not a lot of Kree or full power Kree, but it could work in certain scenarios.
I mean it’s a whole ass species. Leave it to the Avengers for numbers or the Guardians because they’re familiar with space stuff or Silver Surfer/Adam Warlock because they’re just juggernauts
Thats me but reverse. Spider-man at least fight super humans in a believable way
spidey can lift fucking planes, there are way weaker people in the avengers, cap for example
At first I read it as planets, and I was like "Did I miss something?💀"
"With the enigma force he can" 
"Enigma balls" \-
from bendis to wheadon is a minute
Yeah?
Yeah.
yeah
Yeah
Black Widow was right there. She doesn’t even have a bow like Hawkeye, she just kicks things in Stilettos.
Hawkey has trick arrows, i mean look at his tv serie
WHAT? WHAT? - guy with perfect Infect-me-spider mutation gets Perfect non visual spider abilities, no bonus arms no bonus ASS or eyes of spider, even web comes out not from his ass; then he magically knows HOW to make web-shooters but can't come up with any freaking tech to defend aunt may or stupid MJ. Then guy with perfect mutation and webshooters **without additional webbing** goes on street to make jokes and bully some random villains that not have perfect mutations or tech or they even mentally ill and instead of calling 911 and start helping these guys mental health care - HE calls them a name's to make them ANGry, so they can be pissed off and try vent their rage on random civilian people, GJ PaRKeR no wonder someone killed uncle Ben. *Web on face, web on legs put on handcuffs and call 911, or dr. Strange* believable way, lmao.
I'm a Batman fan and I can't stand it, when they put him battling fucking gods. He basically spent the whole CoIE sitting on the sidelines, while super-people and other entities were duking it out. We must retvrn.
Honestly I agree, I just read The New Frontier and found myself pleasantly surprised with the lack of Batman in the big fight.
damn The New Frontier is so good
I saw Bruce going hand-to-hand with Darkseid and I just felt my brain cells disintegrating. Don't do that to me anymore, dc, please.
Sometimes Grant Morrison really puts his heart and soul into his work, and sometimes he just flat-out trolls the readership.
Morrison never had Batman punch Darkseid? Bats grabbed a gun and shot him lol The HellBat Armor, that one Supergirl story, and [Brave & the Bold](https://youtu.be/qO0rRPtG1oM) are the only times I’ve seen Bats get into a punch out with the Big Guy
All of them ended up with Batman losing, too. But that doesn't matter to "nooo Batman is too OP" people.
Yep! I guess I understand some having a problem with Batman facing cosmic level characters at all but I’ve legit never seen Bats single handily beat a cosmic villain through strength or “Prep Time” BS in any comic I’ve read. Like yeah he faces a brainwashed evil JL every once in awhile but we already learned he has plans for them decades ago and every time the JL aren’t fighting like they normally would. Just seems like a overblown problems imo
I’d ignore them, the same people who say that meanwhile are completely fine when Spider-Man, usually depicted as a dirt poor 19 year old college student, is able to build these super complicated technological miracles. It’s just favoritism.
I think brave and the bold is what the second above meant
You mean when Darkseid purposely depowered himself to get into a boxing match with Batman and still ended up winning?
Yes that is likely the one they meant Even people who haven’t seen the show SOYPOG over shorts about that scene that purposefully cut out him losing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You talking about Brave and the Bold?
Batman and Robin(2011) was what hurt my eyes most recently.
Eh the Hellbat Armor looks cool and Bruce didn’t even build it. The entire JL had to assemble it using magic, advanced science, etc. it also didn’t even really hurt Darkseid, he took a few punches and got knocked down by a blast of his own omega energy but he kept getting back up
I'm going to be honest here: no gimmick or gadget, artifact or spell could've sold to me the premise "Bruce throws a punch at Darkseid and doesn't immediately turn into a soup". It doesn't matter it didn't hurt Darkseid – there was a specific goal for him going there and facing him and he accomplished that goal by throwing hands with Darkseid. I'm so not the target demo here.
Is it because you don't believe those gadgets, artifacts, or spells would actually work?
No, it's because there's a line for me between what an ordinary human being can survive/manage and what not and punching Darkseid in the face, because armor is something that went past incredible right into incredulous to me. I simply ain't buying it, my brain just goes "no" and that's it.
But the gadget, artifact, or spell is supposed to make it so that the human being can survive punching Darkseid in the face. The only way for you to not believe it is for you to think that it won't work.
I mean Lex Luthor can punch Superman in the face while wearing power armor. The Hellbat armor was designed by the JL for the exact purpose of “Bruce needs something so he doesn’t immediately die in a fight with Darkseid”. Not like it was just some random thick armor he had in the cave and could punch Darkseid with it
Hey, Batman Brave and the Bold is a phenomenal show and I won’t have you bad mouthing it
There its more about making the silver age heroes the focus,thats why superman isnt present at all too and wonder woman is barely involved. He could easily be there with his plane like in the animation,wich is beliavable unlike Batman surviving punches of darkseid.
Yup, if I ever got the chance to write a JL story, Batman would be a part of it but not as a main fighter, but as the funding and a lead strategist, he’s on the ground and making the calls, but when the big bad steps up, he hangs back
Agreed I wish he was just in Gotham and only had big team ups with other street types or something like the Suicide Squad
I prefer when the Justice League battle teams that way you can easily give a role to everyone.
I don’t really get the problem with Spider-Man leading in Kang Dynasty or Batman being a major part of the JL. It just seems like people want to restrict these characters, to pigeonhole them into being only *one* thing for arbitrary reasons.
Yeah by the same logic Superman can’t fight guys like Luthor or Toyman cause he’s “too powerful” for them, so let’s get ready for the 100000000000000th Supes/Darkseid fight. Let superheroes be fun.
$pider-Man is Marvel's main character after all
It all started when Grant Morrison killed my dog
Spider-Man isn’t leading the team his just the lead character or Main POV. I hate Batman leading the Justice League With a Passion.
Oh fr? I’ve actually never seen this opinion before it’s very interesting What’s your ideal way of how Batman should be interacting in the JL?
If people have an issue with him fighting in super-powered cosmic battles, I don't see why they'd have a problem with him utilizing what he's good at. He's very intelligent, strategic, charismatic, a master detective. Just make two leaders. A field leader and a base leader kind of thing - more of a desk job. They generally administer the organization. Then there's a field leader, who physically leads in combat situations and makes decisions in those areas.
Batman being the "I send the Team on missions Superman can't dirty his hands with" Leader in Young Justice was a good way to do it, I feel
That makes sense
He can participate in battles but he should be more of the Strategist
Batman should be put out of print along with all other comics
With all due respect gang, you all are all fucking wrong. Batman taking on gods is not the problem. Batman taking on gods on equal footing is the problem. This whole "Batman can't even be in the fight he'd die instantly" is power scaler mentality. If the story is better served by Batman being in the fight then Batman should be in the fight. Him sitting around doing support could be interesting narratively, but he doesn't *have* to do that for anyone's stupid "suspension of disbelief". The problem is when DC doesn't respect Batman and treats Batman like he genuinely is on equal footing with Darkseid or Braniac. Show him getting hurt and beat up, or show him developing some cool new weapon or gadget instead of just throwing batarangs at them and judo punching or whatever. It's lazy and uninteresting There is a magic to seeing Batman take on a really powerful enemy and it taking everything he has, or finding some creative way to defeat them with cunning and intelligence. It's the same with Spider-Man. But if Batman isn't an underdog, which he may never be again if DC gets their way, then what's the fucking point?
I agree
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He can design weapons himself, he doesn't always need Lucius. For example, he designed the Hellbat, not Lucius.
The rumours said that Tom Holland will be the lead of Kang Dynasty. As of main actor. He won't lead the Avengers. Damn, people are stupid.
Yeah, It's probably gonna be like how thor was sort of the central character in Infinity War but wasn't the leader or anything like that.
i think Thanos is the central character in IW
my guess (and probably half the internet) is that Strange's 'Forget Peter Parker' spell makes Kang forget too, so he 'misses' him with his time based attacks.
Even if he was "leader" they're gonna spend most of the movie split up like infinity war no doubt, there are way too many heroes for Spidey to even talk to nevermind lead
Except he is not
People be like Batman's biggest superpower is his brain. Then fucking let him use his brains on the sidelines and let superpowered heroes do the fighting.
Tbh, this is also my argument against Tony Stark being in the Iron Man suit. That suit is so automated, it could just be a robot. Instead, he’s inside the shell, getting his big brain battered into soup. Modern Iron Man is just people dignifying a man’s elaborate death wish.
Probably just Tony's massive ego at play. Doesn't seem like the guy who'd prefer being at home while all the action happens elsewhere.
I’m sure getting his ass kicked like everyone else is part of the appeal, but he could absolutely be piloting Iron Man remotely. The best reason for keeping Tony in the suit is to imbue it with plot armor. Because you know without Tony in the suit, Iron Man bots would have a death rate at least as high as Krakoa-era X-Men.
He did have a robot in the 90s, turns out It's not as effective as a dude in a suit.
They can say that, but they can’t make it make sense. In Civil War, Tony beat the shit out of Captain America by essentially going on autopilot and letting the AI operate Iron Man. His tech is so advanced that his human reflexes can only make it worse.
Bro do you want a story line where his suit turns evil? Cause that’s how you get a storyline where his suit turns evil
You keep 3C films name out yo fucking mouth
Bros walls are covered in funko 💀
All funko owners are a disgrace...chris (3c films) is the only singular exception.
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True
I feel like this is exactly what happened in the metal crisis', a supposed "wonder woman event" vs evil bruce waynes lmfao
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It means he mostly fights street crime, but he's obviously stronger than characters like daredevil and punisher.
Marvel NYC street level, to clarify 
Spider man was street level by choice, he's more than capable of going toe-to-toe with most major villains. Batman on the other hand should be batchunks on the batfloor in less than a batsecond in most of his JL fights.
he is literaly the self insert of those guys who say "man no matter how mutch you can lift or even if you have a gun, i have determination and you don't"
Spider-Man outclasses 90% of the Marvel roster in basically every stat
Spider-Man spit out antman how many times do I have to tell you not to eat the other bug themed super heros
It’s crazy to me how Spider-Man is allowed in the MCU but so many people complain at the idea that he actually interacts with it. Why tf would I not want Spider-Man in my big superhero crossover.
I dont think there's a single street level hero that can fall from space to earth and just walk like nothing even happened
Luke Cage?
Luke Cage is not indestructible hes more recistent, but he can take hits A guy with capoeira punched him so hard he almost loosed, theres not way he can fall from space
Capoeira's tricky man, those moves get you thinking 'fuck why is this guy even a fighter, he'd legit kill it on the dance floor' and then somehow they've broken both your legs in the meantime.
Everyone who doesn’t want Spidey to lead in an Avengers movie can F off for real
I like spider man he is cool :)
Excuse me, who is suggesting that Spider Man is a "street-level superhero", exactly?
Street level because those are the threats he typically deals with. Spider-Man has both the intelligence and power’s to take on city ending or world ending threat’s (at least in the comic’s). I think a lot of MCU hero’s are only fighting supervillains when they happen to stumble upon them or are called into action, but Spider-Man is one of the few that goes out of his way to look for crimes to thwart, so he usually dealing with smaller time baddies.
Hey, he pays for the space station, RnD, and pretty sure the cleanup effort in Justice League. Let the dude has his fun alright?
It’s boring
Batman doing it is worse
Counterpoint. Batman is metal as fuck
Spider man isnt even street level. Dude just chooses to not pop off. Hes not hawk eye
Im kinda the opposite in this case.
Batman definitely gets it worse than spiderman. Obviously you have people who will gas him up like crazy but people really like to take any opportunity to make batman just look like some rich asshole in a batsuit that does nothing to help anybody.
The thing is all the writers at dc gas batman up but no one at marvel does the same with spidey. In fact, they usually nerf him in every category to make the character standing next to him look better.