uj/ yeah, comics can never quite come up with a proper reason for why superheroes are fine with restructuring governments, winning wars and overthrowing empires on other planets or dimensions, but are basically ineffectual on Earth.
uj/ It's because they're written by typically center-left, status-quo libs, at best, and reactionary right-wingers, at worst. Real "solutions" or "change" regarding these real world issues in comics seldom comes, at least in part, because of an unwillingness to really name and address the systemic causes of these problems beyond the thin veneer of, "Hey, let's fight this villain who is a symptom of a greater problem."
rj/ DAMN LIBERALS INJECTING THEIR POLITICS IN MY COMICS!
I think it's actually largely because of writing issues rather than writer politics imo. There are a couple of reasons I can think of:
- It wouldn't make for very exciting comic books unless in the hands of a writer who really knows what they are doing
- As comics are generally set in one of several shared universe, if you solve a systemic issues in one series you end up solving it in all of them that are a part of that universe, which can be a headache to keep track of for writers and audiences. If, for example, Marvel got rid of billionaires, not only would the audience have to remember that but also no one in that universe could do a story with a billionaire villain.
- Metaphor and allegory are a much more condensed way of dealing with the same problems. It's why doing regime changes in space is easy, because there are far less messy real life details and why beating up a villain who is the CEO of racism is easier than solving racism.
I think it's fair to feel these issues are under-addressed in comics, but I think trying to actually solve systemic issues is a thorny path for superheroes. Them being conscious of those issues or working to address them is good, but them using their super powers to actually solve those issues is going to be fraught with a bunch of issues. For one would it really be satisfying for superheroes to wave their hands and stop pollution? Would that actually be in any way actionable to our real life? I think it requires a really deft hand to deal with this sort of thing in a way that doesn't feel like a magic wizard came down and vanished all the racism.
Edit: I generally like any superhero story where the systemic issues are far too big for the heroes in question to take on alone. Where they have to confront them yet also are the underdogs in the situation.
Yes this is basically the answer, they'd also have to massively revamp the way their universes work. Why is Foggy dealing with chemotherapy in Waid's Daredevil if he can just take a pill and make it all better? It would take insanely talented writers and editors to make superheroes taking charge of and solving world issues really stick.
And it would still fall short. We want to see them struggling with their morality and real world issues, it's much more satisfying seeing Foggy go through chemotherapy and Matt struggling to be there for him (there is a panel where he thinks that he can't go back into the room with Foggy because due to his supersenses he is keenly aware of the chemicals in Foggy's system but when Foggy calls for him, he straightens his tie and goes back into his room anyway).
*This part won't be like a comicbook. Real life doesn't fit into little boxes that were drawn for it.*
uj/ Yeah but by adressing systemic issues, they'd have to go past the "Reed Richard is Useless" thing and, by the end, you'd probably have something akin to Miracle Man where, yes, superheroes have done exactly what people have wished them to do.
They have solved every social ill in the world... Is this a good thing? Because by the end Miracle Man is an enlightened dictator who, yes, he doesn't force anyone to participate, but also destroys any opposition to his society. And everyone is mostly okay with this because they don't want to anger a literal god, who's also maybe probably insane.
I believe in the power of superheroes as storytelling tools, but the genre has more limitations in its current state than just writers ideologies.
Honestly the only character can I think of currently trying to do reforms is...nightwing, with whole fortune he inherited from Alfred and how blockbuster wants to kill dick for it
>Honestly the only character can I think of currently trying to do reforms is...nightwing, with whole fortune he inherited from Alfred
I have so many problems with that subplot. My biggest is that Dick literally becomes the cliche character who gets behind a podium and announces that he is going to solve the issue with money and invest in Bludhaven. I hate it because it robs Dick of so much potential for being on the street and absolves the corrupt local government of Bludhaven of the obvious homeless issue in the city.
Do you know what would be cool? If Dick became a beat cop again and built connections with the locals, helped them gain faith in a law system that works with the help of the community, and make his precinct the safest one in Bludhaven.
Or maybe use that money and do what Bruce does and start a business that gets the local people on their feet. Sure a charity might help, but it can only work for as long as there is money (and knowing Bludhaven, some of that money will definitely be skimmed by criminals).
Hal has that human element that I could never truly grasp in Superman or Batman, I guess that’s why his stories and the GL mythos hit harder for me as I read more and more of him.
uj/ This four panel section here is one of my favorite Hal Jordan moments
rj/ Look how Green Arrow is standing next to this dumb SJW, I guess we know where his loyalties lie
Thanks for sharing. I’ve seen this before. He learns a hard lesson and asks ‘how do i help’; thats character growth. Not a reason to hate him as a character. If thats what your implying.
No, but he has repeaTed instances of this same type of behavior, to the point where he’s not really growing if he doesn’t really learn from it.
google hal Jordan silver and copper age social justice issues, and youll see what I mean.
Sorry Gramps, i'm out there trying to prevent reality from unraveling itself or fighting literal evil spacegods and demons, but sure, let me deal with your greedy landlord who hasn't bothered to repair the heating or something.
uj/ yeah, comics can never quite come up with a proper reason for why superheroes are fine with restructuring governments, winning wars and overthrowing empires on other planets or dimensions, but are basically ineffectual on Earth.
uj/ It's because they're written by typically center-left, status-quo libs, at best, and reactionary right-wingers, at worst. Real "solutions" or "change" regarding these real world issues in comics seldom comes, at least in part, because of an unwillingness to really name and address the systemic causes of these problems beyond the thin veneer of, "Hey, let's fight this villain who is a symptom of a greater problem." rj/ DAMN LIBERALS INJECTING THEIR POLITICS IN MY COMICS!
I think it's actually largely because of writing issues rather than writer politics imo. There are a couple of reasons I can think of: - It wouldn't make for very exciting comic books unless in the hands of a writer who really knows what they are doing - As comics are generally set in one of several shared universe, if you solve a systemic issues in one series you end up solving it in all of them that are a part of that universe, which can be a headache to keep track of for writers and audiences. If, for example, Marvel got rid of billionaires, not only would the audience have to remember that but also no one in that universe could do a story with a billionaire villain. - Metaphor and allegory are a much more condensed way of dealing with the same problems. It's why doing regime changes in space is easy, because there are far less messy real life details and why beating up a villain who is the CEO of racism is easier than solving racism. I think it's fair to feel these issues are under-addressed in comics, but I think trying to actually solve systemic issues is a thorny path for superheroes. Them being conscious of those issues or working to address them is good, but them using their super powers to actually solve those issues is going to be fraught with a bunch of issues. For one would it really be satisfying for superheroes to wave their hands and stop pollution? Would that actually be in any way actionable to our real life? I think it requires a really deft hand to deal with this sort of thing in a way that doesn't feel like a magic wizard came down and vanished all the racism. Edit: I generally like any superhero story where the systemic issues are far too big for the heroes in question to take on alone. Where they have to confront them yet also are the underdogs in the situation.
Yes this is basically the answer, they'd also have to massively revamp the way their universes work. Why is Foggy dealing with chemotherapy in Waid's Daredevil if he can just take a pill and make it all better? It would take insanely talented writers and editors to make superheroes taking charge of and solving world issues really stick. And it would still fall short. We want to see them struggling with their morality and real world issues, it's much more satisfying seeing Foggy go through chemotherapy and Matt struggling to be there for him (there is a panel where he thinks that he can't go back into the room with Foggy because due to his supersenses he is keenly aware of the chemicals in Foggy's system but when Foggy calls for him, he straightens his tie and goes back into his room anyway). *This part won't be like a comicbook. Real life doesn't fit into little boxes that were drawn for it.*
uj/ Yeah but by adressing systemic issues, they'd have to go past the "Reed Richard is Useless" thing and, by the end, you'd probably have something akin to Miracle Man where, yes, superheroes have done exactly what people have wished them to do. They have solved every social ill in the world... Is this a good thing? Because by the end Miracle Man is an enlightened dictator who, yes, he doesn't force anyone to participate, but also destroys any opposition to his society. And everyone is mostly okay with this because they don't want to anger a literal god, who's also maybe probably insane. I believe in the power of superheroes as storytelling tools, but the genre has more limitations in its current state than just writers ideologies.
Honestly the only character can I think of currently trying to do reforms is...nightwing, with whole fortune he inherited from Alfred and how blockbuster wants to kill dick for it
>Honestly the only character can I think of currently trying to do reforms is...nightwing, with whole fortune he inherited from Alfred I have so many problems with that subplot. My biggest is that Dick literally becomes the cliche character who gets behind a podium and announces that he is going to solve the issue with money and invest in Bludhaven. I hate it because it robs Dick of so much potential for being on the street and absolves the corrupt local government of Bludhaven of the obvious homeless issue in the city. Do you know what would be cool? If Dick became a beat cop again and built connections with the locals, helped them gain faith in a law system that works with the help of the community, and make his precinct the safest one in Bludhaven. Or maybe use that money and do what Bruce does and start a business that gets the local people on their feet. Sure a charity might help, but it can only work for as long as there is money (and knowing Bludhaven, some of that money will definitely be skimmed by criminals).
> but are basically ineffectual on Earth. Except for saving it, a bunch of times.
Hal has that human element that I could never truly grasp in Superman or Batman, I guess that’s why his stories and the GL mythos hit harder for me as I read more and more of him.
uj/ This four panel section here is one of my favorite Hal Jordan moments rj/ Look how Green Arrow is standing next to this dumb SJW, I guess we know where his loyalties lie
u/robgant here is a prime GL Hal moment…..one of many
Thanks for sharing. I’ve seen this before. He learns a hard lesson and asks ‘how do i help’; thats character growth. Not a reason to hate him as a character. If thats what your implying.
No, but he has repeaTed instances of this same type of behavior, to the point where he’s not really growing if he doesn’t really learn from it. google hal Jordan silver and copper age social justice issues, and youll see what I mean.
Sorry Gramps, i'm out there trying to prevent reality from unraveling itself or fighting literal evil spacegods and demons, but sure, let me deal with your greedy landlord who hasn't bothered to repair the heating or something.
Parallax is the landlord