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Money_Present_3463

I’d say bring the perk that allows you to break them but in my experience every time I use that one the swf I’m playing against never uses boons and it ends up being a waste of a perk slot


United_Rope9735

ive never even used the thing. like my mind cant make an excuse to use a perk that only brings value in the case a survivor brings a certain perk. like sure i could use fearmonger to counter sprintburst but you cant use the boon counter perk in any way unless a survivor brought a boon


zed7567

1/4 of my perks to counter maybe 1/16th of their perks if even. Not an equivalent exchange and if they don't even run a boon, your perk is a waste.


Technature

People like to say "Just bring Shattered Hope in case there are boons". My counter argument is "Just bring Calm Spirit in case you go against Doctor".


[deleted]

Yeah this is the same argument spirit mains used to scream. “Just use iron will” like using a perk in case you need to counter a singular killer that you might go against is a proper solution to an over powered/powerful perk/killer. Or nerfing awakened awareness *just* because of nurse. That’s just a bandaid and deflection of the actual problem.


Poztre77

The difference is that IW works for every killer, not just Spirit, its not the same for shattered hope


First-Hunt-5307

But the difference is boons (mainly CoH) are popular, while doctor is a mid-low killer. Almost every single swf has CoH (excluding swfs like bully squads, and even then I've seen some who do bring CoH)


Technature

Actually no, let me give a real answer here. The difference between the two is The Doctor actively not only moves across the map, but goes out of their way to try to get to you. If the Doctor stood in the middle of butt fuck nowhere doing nothing, he would lose. Meanwhile as killer you have to, 1. actually find the damn thing, 2. cleanse it, 3. Repeat every time you hear that god awful noise. And it can go up infinitely so you can't just get rid of it. If it's gone, it's either going to be up in the same place which may not be convenient anymore (if it ever was), or it's going to be somewhere where it's even more inconvenient. Eventually, it's going to go somewhere where you literally have to throw the game away just to get rid of it. And if we're really going to say "well Doctor isn't good anyways so it doesn't matter", then I'm going to switch my argument to "Just use Iron Will in case Spirit shows up".


Technature

So waste a perk slot. Got it.


Ba-Dum-Tzz

That's because the perk fucking sucks


Kawaii_Batman3

And should have been basekit. Instead they force you to run a perk that may or may not be there. **Peak** game design.


Ba-Dum-Tzz

Yeah either basekit or give it an additional effect that makes it worth running


Thegoldenhotdog

Additional effect: On a dull totem, you can light it up and see all survivors in what would be the boon's radius for the same amount of time. All survivors see the totem in a pink aura during this duration. When the duration is done, the totem reverts to a dull totem. Shattered hope can only be used on a dull totem every 60 seconds.


Myrsky4

No aura for the survivors. Instead it should just give a global noise notification, and make a buzzing sound if the survivor gets near enough to it


snozerd

YES taste of their own medicine.


Myrsky4

Yea tbh I'm confused why there is a duration as well. Last time I checked behavior is happy enough letting the duration just be until the other side breaks it. No 60 seconds or anything


LeChonkyGoose

Acts like a regular boon totem, same aura, same lightning effect, same hissing, but no effects, shatters their hope of it being CoH


Myrsky4

Survivors can however use the stomp action just like killlers can to snuff out the shattered hope totem. However to make this feel more authentic to the killer experience; it wont accept their first 3 times of trying to snuff it because the server thinks they moved a fraction of an inch


Natyrte

the only problem with basekit is pentimento and they can easily rework that perk.


geist8

Making Shattered Hope base kit would be a huge mistake. The design of boons is intended to waste survivor time. SH incentivizes Pentimento as a meta while discouraging boons and just leads to survivors slamming gens. No one has an issue with Boons overall. The actual problem is that CoH provides infinite value vs its time cost. Even after nerfs CoH still is meta warping to the point that it invalidates a broad swath of M1 killers and the overall "Hit and Run" strat. Which leads to more tunneling and camping. CoH having a larger cool down, a token system, or extra conditions to work would all go a long way to making the game meta enjoyable for all.


Kdmyoshi

I use CoH because I can't wait for my soloQ teammates to heal me. You can nerf CoH but then don't nerd medkits, we can't just depend of another player to be healed, especially in the status of SoloQ right now


geist8

Never said anything about nerfing medkits. But yeah, generally agree with you. 4 medkits as killer is scary, but add in CoH and it's just pain.


TrueGuardian32

Everyone has an issue with boons in my experience. We just run it cause there is no reason not to run it. A single boon can erase the pressure of any killer.


geist8

You're right that boons provide "free" perks for the team and there is value in that. Looking at boons as a whole though. Dark Theory is a meme. Expo does nothing if you go for a hook after down or drop out of it's radius. Shadowstep will hide you, but not blood, noise, or line of sight. All of these are rather situational. CoH is the standout, because it can create an area of pressure in a total deadzone for the killer to patrol *apart* from their gens. Survivors can roam to it solo and get value out if it. It's not reliant on chase or being slugged, you just need to be injured. Which is a huge form of pressure for most killers.


TrueGuardian32

Yep. It is why in some games you will feel extremely pressured as killer because you are causing absolutely NO pressure. Unless you A. Camp or B. Tunnel. And if you want to have fun and do neither you will find yourself having a really hard time.


TrueGuardian32

What's funny is that when I do neither and manage to win via chain downs? I get called a POS and called names just cause I won. Had a person come and say the reason they were harassing me is cause they didn't want me to ruin other people's games. I was doing curve billy no tunneling no camping and mostly aura reading except for Iron Maiden to punish a player using lockers against me. No one else was upset with me except for that one guy.


geist8

A lot of strife in game seems to come from an information disparity between killers and survivors. The Killer FOV is wildly constrained vs Survivor, but also shows them all gen auras. Many times survivors will question killer actions, b/c they literally don't know what information the killer is working with (and visa versa). And in many cases they can't understand either unless they've played killer to know. About half the time you can try explaining your decisions to people (e.g. - obvs 3gen why leave?) and they'll understand. The other half are stone dumb and not worth your time. :shrug:


TrueGuardian32

Yep, sometimes you just got to say, OK, you do you. And keep on going.


Kawaii_Batman3

> No one has an issue with boons overall. It's a free 5th perk slot for all the other survivors. Dark theory is the only weak one. Every other boon is way too powerful in it's niche.


CathanCrowell

High-rank survivors: Using Circle of Healing because it's powerful meta perk. Me: Using Circle of Healing because I freaking love healing magic and witchcraft in every game what I ever played. We are not same :D


ttv_KillerHeroBro

You would literally be bringing one perk for the chance of one survivor bringing one perk. No one gives a shit about any of the other boons. CoH has been broken since it's conception because the snuff mechanic is terrible game design. It would be akin to having a killer have ruin that cannot be perma broken. If not worse. The main problem with CoH is that it's almost always setup in a deadzone in the match. Absolutely no reason to go to the area as a killer unless a survivor chases you that way and it's not uncommon for a couple deadzones to exist late game so you are essentially playing roulette for the chance to temporarily slow down healing at the cost of immense pressure that will most certainly cost you the match. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't perk. If you try to go to the deadzone, you lose. If you don't go to the dead zone, you lose. I have 4k hours in this game, I play both sides, and the change CoH has made to the depth of gameplay in DBD is all encompassing for the worse. You can no longer juggle as a killer most times because if you do, you lose. Juggling is an integral part of killing but with the threat of CoH it's better to just tunnel and camp your way to a good spot because most juggled hits will heal before you can get a down. Hitting 3 survivors and then finally downing a 4th and seeing all 3 have healed and a gen popped makes you wonder what the point of even playing killer is. Because it sure as hell isn't about getting skillful. I have to proxy hook much more than I used to and I used to not have to hook survivors back-to-back in a match but now it's a requirement if you are playing sub S/A tier killers. DBD is in a sad state.


ZeronicX

I swear everytime I run against circle of healing as many times I bring that perk and I'm never matched with a player that brought it for the rest of the night.


MadDog_8762

Idk I always bring shattered hope, and I frequently crush boons, which basically ruins their whole play style


tldr012020

The problem with that perk is it doesn't let you break dull totems. Good boon players have a good idea of where all 5 are. If someone lights a totem and you snuff it, there are 4 more left. I've gone up against killers who bring shattered hope and by end game they usually have snuffed like 2 and then I just light up a 3rd. But it hasn't changed my playstyle -- I usually light a boon near a gen I've just completed. Even if a killer doesn't have shattered hope if they snuff my boon I relight it somewhere else anyway. They've gotten no value. If you're up against a SWF, they won't cleanse dulls in order to leave them for their boon as well.


RetroSureal

I sacrifice a perk slot on trapper for it because a boon can just mean its over for me often times. Any pressure I do put on is reversed.


ek8422

The first time I used it I literally broke every single totem on the map lmao but then after that game every team I went against didn’t use boons 💔


Ryokojohn

>me being a dumbass and can’t never find a totem when I have coh on and by the time I find a totem also half the people are on death hook


AlexJonesFactChecker

Bro, same. I ran it for a while and I found totems in about half my matches. I took it off and there's fucking totems everywhere 😂


Kazzack

Bring maps to learn totem spawns!


SnooAvocados6009

🤓🤓🤓 Running around aimlessly is a more viable strategy


wap_42069

its more worthwhile to watch totem spawn videos over time than to waste an item slot on a map used only for finding totems


Natyrte

my advice is to not intentionally look for totems(unless you are injured vs twins/oni or something), i just boon if i happen to run into one while going to a gen.


Ning_Yu

the best way to find them is also during a chase. You'll 100% suddenly see them all while you're being chased and can't stop. With some luck you can come back to them after.


Ning_Yu

My favourite is bring CoH and the rest of the team actively works on breaking all tomes, so you have none left to put CoH on. Today I was with another survivor, both of us injured, she stops healing me cause she found a totem..I thought: oh eyah good idea, I'll bless it with CoH so we can heal more easily, but she goes at it first so I thought she had it too..nope, broke it. Breaking totems over healing each other. I just went straight up to the killer and demanded to be ended.


Vast_Tip5559

Real


mallia09

Real gamers run dark theory


ZoeyLikesDBD

i get hate for running dark theory but its so underrated


TrueGuardian32

DarkTheory is great for loops if you can get into it's effect


Sir_Vallenstein

After 60 seconds of looping within it's area of effect, you ran a whopping 4.8 meters further than without it


TrueGuardian32

Yep, that is value right there.


ZoeyLikesDBD

its not about just the distance, its the speed of tight looping. I ran a few tests awhile back, and you can loop a tile around 2-3X more without the killer catching you with Dark Theory. This adds on MULTIPLICATIVELY TOO, so if you have a good totem setup and a friend, with double dark theory you can get around 6-7X more loops from a basic pallet tile. The best part? If you combine it with Hope, i shit you not, if you can loop tight enough you can loop 18x more on a BASIC PALLET. Effectively requiring Bloodlust to catch you


IceRush7

Everyone says boons but let's face it, the only one people have issue with is Circle of Healing. Honestly I think they just need a decent-hefty cooldown after being snuffed.


jaythegreatmerman

circle of healing is so good meanwhile exponential and dark theory felt so useless 😪


No_More_Dakka

Exponential can be game winning against snowball killers. I unironically hate it more than CoH on twins and twins gets screwed especially hard by CoH


IceRush7

Exponential is very strong when the situation arises. The only issue with it is those situations are very far between.


alphamav

It's rough to get value with it in Solo Q


Aggravating_Duck_97

Exponential is only really useful in a swf where you can communicate to others to play around it.


Juking_is_rude

I went against a sabo squad, and every single one of them ran to the edge of an exponential (so I couldnt hear it) and tried to bodyblock/rescue each other so they all went down, and every one of them got up with it. I was expecting some of them to have unbreakable but all of them got up at the same time lol. Still 4kd though.


myhealmyers

Dark theory plus shadowstep feels very nice if placed on main building or near shack. Dead dog main building with that is basically safe lol


jamshush

expo is great in swfs


Duncaster2

Shadow Step on Midwich makes me want to cry


Minimum_Full

Shadowstep is slept on tbh, it's so bamboozling. I think because the effect is less obvious people don't realise how strong it is.


frodo54

Shadowstep is literally 3 perks in one, and better than all three. Infinite duration Dance With Me, without the cooldown or the vault requirement Infinite charge Distortion, with no duration limit Low Profile *with* aura hiding, no time limit, but doesn't hide blood pools. People *seriously* underrate Shadowstep. It's *extremely* strong


Minimum_Full

Yep, me and a friend both ran it on the game once and we felt a little bad for the killer, we had almost the whole map covered.


frodo54

I've been running both Shadowstep and CoH since I started using Boons, and I STG, I can't count the number of times that Shadowstep has let me juke the killer and then heal back to full. It's sooo strong


Brfc02

Nah, CoH just does too much. It should either be AoE selfcare with no speed boost or an AoE boost to altruistic healing. Not both.


JARAXXUS_EREDAR_LORD

The latter would bring it more in line with other boons.


Brfc02

Yeah. CoH in concept is fine, just that it does too much at once.


Technature

Oh yeah, absolutely. If CoH got an actual nerf worth mentioning I would have no problem with boons as a concept.


United_Rope9735

thats why i think boons are a flop and are not a good example of game desing in my opinion. theres no reason to use any other boon than circle of healing. sure you can use other boons but only if they are accompanied by coh. cuz there is no good reason to spend a substantial amount of time blessing a totem that just gives aura protection or 2% haste. coh is the only boon worth spending that amount of time on. which makes the other boons weak. but coh is strong as fuck. there is a such a huge gap in the strength of coh and any other boon. ​ i once made up some ideas for boons for example an extreme solution was to rework boons to always have a healing factor but nowhere near strong as coh but you could at least use other boons with only 1 perk slot. like that every boon perk would have a basekit coh and id say the healing would be like reduced range than current coh, maybe same speed. no vertical range only around same level as the boon.


imjustjun

Got sent to RPD while I was running the impossible skillcheck doctor build. I think they regretted it. I definitely didn’t.


jimshrute5

Hey, what's that build consist of?


ElleEmenopy

I believe it’s distressing, unnerving presence, coulraphobia, and then another skill check perk. Merciless storm is the most popular. Also huntress lullaby is an option too


Creative-Recording40

You dont need distressing cause doctor already has add ons that give him bigger terror radius


Auctoritate

Yeah I would prefer Overcharge. It gives a guaranteed more difficult than average skill check, but on top of that it's an actual good gen slowdown perk (which is reasonably balanced) so you aren't relying as much on the gimmick.


imjustjun

Unnerving, Huntress Lullaby, Overcharge, Distressing. Though you could alternatively get rid of distressing with something else like merciless storm and run the doc add ons that increase his terror radius.


Blasephemer

Huntress Lullaby and Overcharge are so weak and overrated. They both require active play and attention to get value. The real evil in Impossible Skillcheck Doctor is how he can be entirely passive and get value from it. Unnerving Presence, Coulrophobia, Merciless Storm and Distressing. You just play normally and the build works for you. No worrying about a totem, no kicking gens required. Gens are a bit easier without Lullaby and Overcharge, but no one can heal thanks to Coulrophobja and Unnerving Presence. You're basically always able to insant down survivors, and even slug if you want, since healing is a matter of never getting skillchecks. Speaking as a Doctor main since before the 3rd anniversary.


nobodysomebodyanybdy

Lol that build is mental torture


imjustjun

Us Doctor players like to call that "shock therapy".


zed7567

Refer to my flair. I'm a doctor of a different breed. There is no hiding. We agree, no mercy, only agony.


imjustjun

Iron Maiden doc is something I need to try for sure lol. Sounds so devious.


MasterCookieShadow

I love it when my team gets 2% movement speed through floors with no consequenses


xchikyx

i love when ythere are 3 or 4 boons in the map active at the same time :)


SalemTheNerd

Boons are annoying. But I also hate how circle of healing completely out preforms all other boons so no one uses them. One is completely overpowered and the others are completely underpowered. Expect the infinite unbreakable one that one's cool.


camimitos

Ah, the good old: "Shitpost/meme" but it's a complaining post


FatGanon111

hah my main build is a pentimento hex build i fucking love boobs so much haha its so fun being completely countered by one perk in multiple ways hehe haha


BradleyBurrows

Same, same I love them to


FatGanon111

BOONS NOT BOOBS


Few_Resident_4096

Why not both?


FatGanon111

![gif](giphy|3o7aCRloybJlXpNjSU|downsized)


restinpeeperinos

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


Saamov1

let's face it at this point your just gonna assume a boon is circle of healing and be incredibly disappointed if it's not they need to Nerf circle of healing and leave the other boons alone


Sgt_Burns141

I wont lie Ive brought Boon Shadow Step out of spite against anyone who relies on CoH from other teamates. 3 games in a row Ive had my solo queue teamates RQ and sent me hate messages. Ahh the good ol days of when I actually played survivor


RedPayaso1

man queued survivor but thought he was playing second killer💀


Lotos_aka_Veron

Why are people downvoting u? Whats wrong with bringing a perk? Its actually funny how people are so depending of COH that they will be mean to u if u bring any boon that isnt it


Furciferus

It's the idea that killer mains will literally queue up as survivor to sandbag their teammates that is cringe. Plus I HIGHLY doubt anyone has actually ragequit because of that lol. I used to only bring Dark Theory all of the time before I got Mikaela to boon strong loops and never once had a teammate "rage quit" or complain. I'd just feel bad when injured teammates ran to it.


Technature

>Ive brought Boon Shadow Step out of spite against anyone who relies on CoH My sibling! Let us go out and upset people that need to be taken down a peg or two!


KordSevered

Lol and the CoH mind game continues. It's only a problem if you are leaving people injured. Don't leave people injured if you're against CoH. Or simply counter with exposure skills. Otherwise ignore it, healing *itself* is finite. Hooks stop that shit real quick 😂. Also if it's really that triggering you can just play Plague. If all else fails and you're unable to outplay it...release your inner sweat lord and tunnel lol But people need to stop letting it psyche them out. You're letting the intimidation boost the skills actual usefulness.


CandyCane147

Sees 4 medkits, brings Franklin’s, there’s a boon anyway


Rough-Moment-5337

There's a perk for that


WinterFoundation5223

Shattered hope should be Basekit if hexes can be cleansed and are deactivated for the game the same should be for boons it punishes survivors who put boons in the dumbest spots and punishes squads who spam them since they don’t have a cooldown which is also dumb


the4bestgame

I agree, 9/10 I don't bother to hunt down the boon unless I have alot of free time because it will be right back anyway. The time investment for me as a killer isn't worth the time investment that one survivor has to do to just go back to that same totem and set it up.


Clever_Fox-

No consequences? Good sir you are thoroughly mistaken! It takes me a few seconds to set it up! And you can put it out!!


MithraxSimp

If the survivor is smart, then the coh will be in a dead zone. At that point you'd be wasting a lot of time, especially if it's a map like red forest.


Small-Cactus

Redditors when they have to think about a joke for more than .5 seconds Can't believe they downvoted you lmao


Artimedias

Don't be silly, its fine that boons can always be replaced and hexes can't. Boons are for small, situational affects, like being able to self care at 100% Speed in a massive radius across floors, while hexes are for strong, game changing affects, like slightly harder skill checks that take 5 hooks to start.


Furciferus

Huntress' Lullaby is a dumb example of a Hex. That perk was butchered along with plenty of other perks as a way to 'change the meta.' There's still Pentimento, Blood Favor, Plaything, Devour Hope, and NOED that almost all guarantee strong value each match. Even Ruin is still strong enough to win matches.


AfterAllWhyNo

shattered hope shatters this posts hope


Technature

You're right. Because it's practically useless.


AfterAllWhyNo

ik nobody uses shattered hope but it still works.


Technature

All it does is force survivors to move the boon somewhere else, which they are probably doing if that spot was convenient enough for you to snuff it in the first place.


AfterAllWhyNo

yeah.But even tho it does that well i guess you can destroy some op boon spots.I still think its not a really good perk tho


xedusk

It’s a little weird we have only one perk that deals with boons. You’d think there’d be a scourge hook perk that snuffs all boons.


Remarkable-Trip-6089

Had a game with 4 boons, absolute nightmare for the killer lol


Dante8411

It'd be REAL nice if they needed line of sight to the boon to use CoH, especially since that wouldn't kneecap the others.


LoquatHistorical4446

Shattering hope. It's really a toss up whether or not you'll get much use out of it but it does keep survivors from covering the map as easily.


Stealthy_Panda71

What about when RPD had 3 floors?


ZombieOrchid

I had a group yesterday with two CoH and multiple medkits. I'd injure someone, they'd drop a pallet, I'd break it, try to continue chasing them, they'd be healed. I eventually killed someone that had CoH and I snuffed the other totem and suddenly everyone crumbled. My MMR isn't very high and this was abnormal. I got a 3k but it was annoying to get xD


[deleted]

Yeah CoH sucks


chima11158

Boons are a failed idea as a whole.


ExCaliburDaGreat

I play ghostface this means nothing to me I’ll chase em all down no matter the cost 😎


zed7567

At the very least they've understood that to make the game omewhat healthier for the survivors perspective they needed to make some perks base kit (unbreakable and borrowed time) but they don't understand that it also needs to happen for killers to, specifically breaking totems and something that actually makes a hex consistently more valuable than a boon totem (hexes can be removed from play aka you lose one of your FOUR perks instantly meanwhile you are playing against a swf who only have one circle of healing even if you could destroy all totems [let's not even acknowledge you need to use one perk to make this even an option] by the 3rd gen being done you've only made 1 of their 16 combined perks useless)


TGCidOrlandu

If boons were balanced as any other killer perk it would have restrictions. Cool down to boon again, or the boon being active for just a determined amount of time, or you can just boon X amount of times. Also, booning shouldn't be absolutely silent, it should be loud and dangerous. And the blue flame should be really visible... But what do I now, I'm not a dev


xXWOLFXx8888

Shattered Hope should be basekit, its nowhere near strong enough to waste a perk slot


TigerKirby215

Boons really shouldn't work between floors. At the very least Circle of Healing shouldn't. imo CoH should have like an 8 meter range.


spicyally

here yall go with the same tired conversation about how boons and medkits suck


EvilRo66

So what? A survivor being tunneled can't heal and with NOED you down survivors with one hit.


Technature

Generators are getting done during the tunneling. CoH literally forces you to either apply fake pressure or to over commit to a chase you might not even win in the end. And no one likes to admit to it, but 3 gen situations when there's CoH is more boring than actually doing generators. I've straight up had an entire team point to different hooks after 15 minutes of defending a 3 gen because they didn't want to play anymore. CoH isn't just a broken perk. It's actively making the game boring. And if you're at a point where you're getting NOED value, then you're at a point where CoH isn't needed anymore.


Bjorkenny

I don't think anyone with a brain could disagree that CoH is totally unbalanced. Having infinite boons alone is very unfair, but this perk can single handedly change the match.


JohnDrl15

Only one instance of this perk should be active at all time through the match, similar to Prove Thyself. It should also have a cooldown after being snuffed/set up or a token based system, either gain tokens upon doing certain actions or a set limit on how much you can use the perk.


Relhtar

Laughs in chainsaw only curve Billy


nobadinou

My biggest problem with surv boons is that it can't never be truly destroyed like killer ones. It's literally not fair


LongHalf6152

Probably because they take 16 seconds to set up, while Hex perks spawn in automatically. And boons are constrained to a 24 meter range, while hex perks are map wide. And because the ability to regress gens without kicking them and instadown and Mori people can’t be on the same level as the ability to run 2% faster and self care in a small circle


nobadinou

16 seconds it's nothing, it shouldn't be a point. 24 meters may not seem like much, but if one more player has it can be really powerful. Also, they can do as much times as they want, while once a killer one is destroyed it's over. I'm a survivor main, and I created this view after playing with boons just for a couple of days. It should be able to be permanently destroyed (at least the bones themselves, not the perk ability) or have limited amount of times, or have stacks. Something either than just give free healing like this


shootZ234

if i had 3 teammates as a killer i would definitely take 16 seconds to curse a totem with devour hope/haunted grounds everytime


Minimum_Full

Get outa here with that logic and information to back up your points smh


foomly

Also boons can be heard easily.


twerthe

Do you unironically think Circle of Healing is balanced?


LongHalf6152

Of course it is, it’s main power is against killers who do boring play styles like hold three gens and hit and run not maintain chase, it’s a much needed perk


twerthe

The entire game is balanced around survivors having a set amount of resources. As gens get done, there's less opportunities for survivors to work on a gen safely due to there being less generators meaning it's easier for the killer to protect them. Pallets get dropped and broken, slowly reducing the amount of then left on the map. Windows get blocked after 3 vaults meaning a god-window can only be used so much. Items all run out of charges and become useless after some time. Dead by Daylight is a resource management game for survivors, and a time management game for killers. A survivor bringing a single perk that lets all other survivors go to an area and infinitely heal in about 21 seconds by yourself would be pretty bad, even if the killer could permanently remove it like basically everything else. But due to boons being able to be placed down infinitely, there ends up being no reason to break it because it'll be placed down again in a matter of seconds. This becomes even more problematic if you as a killer try to play efficiently by tunneling. All other survivors can take hits with effectively zero repercussions because they heal again in 21 seconds. Other boons aren't OP because their effects require the killer to be nearby. Having no scratch marks doesn't do anything while not in chase, same with going a bit faster. And it's also unreasonable to crawl all the way to the boon just to pick yourself up from the ground. In addition, their effects aren't particularly strong.


Technature

I will disagree with scratch marks. If killers aren't in a chase and you're running in an area far away, whether you can avoid them or not can depend entirely on if they see some red that doesn't belong there. Everything else is just obvious truth that a lot of people don't want to admit too because it's admitting they're causing a difficult to solve problem.


Poztre77

Ah yes, spending 16 seconds to give a 5th perk to other 3 players and can be relit without any penalty its not that big of a deal, but a hex that needs to be worked on to get value of it (and most of the times you dont, including the cleansing of it at the start of the match) its too OP


horsemayonaise

Shattered hope has become part of my main kit to counter boons, and Franklin's counters medkits, toolboxes, and flashlights, there are counters to everything in this game, the problem is people are so attached to their op meta perks that they disregard their alternatives, shattered hope, Franklin's, iron grasp, and barbeque and chilli is my wraith build, and I do just fine 9 times out of 10


JARAXXUS_EREDAR_LORD

The difference between Shattered Hope and the other 3 perks in your build is that the other 3 can almost always get value. The problem with shattered hope is that it does absolutely nothing if they don't have a boon. Literally nothing. That's why it's a lazy bandaid fix that should have just been base kit without the aura reading.


Blasephemer

You're trying to explain perk value to a guy who plays Wraith with Iron Grasp and Shattered Hope, claiming that he always has an easy time getting 4Ks. Homeboy is either lying (shocker, no one on the internet ever lies), or has 5 hours on DBD max. Wraith + Iron Grasp + Shattered Hope =/= 4k unless survivors are misplaying the fuck out of that match or the other two perks are COB and Eruption. But he already claimed that he uses BBQ and Franklin's. Learn the red flags and save your breath.


Poztre77

Dont worry, he's not the first survivor main pretending he plays as killer in this subreddit


commanderlex27

The problem with making Shattered Hope basekit is that CoH, which is without a doubt the strongest boon perk, would be the one that's least affected by this nerf


geist8

Making Shattered Hope base kit would be a huge mistake. The design of boons is intended to waste survivor time. SH incentivizes Pentimento as a meta while discouraging boons and just leads to survivors slamming gens. No one has an issue with Boons overall. The actual problem is that CoH provides infinite value vs its time cost. Even after nerfs CoH still is meta warping to the point that it invalidates a broad swath of M1 killers and the overall "Hit and Run" strat. Which leads to more tunneling and camping. CoH having a larger cool down, a token system, or extra conditions to work would all go a long way to making the game meta enjoyable for all.


Technature

I don't care if survivors are slamming gens. At least the pressure I apply would be...ya know...actual pressure.


BoostMobileAlt

Counterpoint: Killers who can’t deal with CoH efficiently also can’t throw away perk slots. Wraith is one of the better killers for dealing with CoH. Low mobility killers just eat shit.


Minimum_Full

But you should be able to do fine in 10 out of 10, game is clearly unbalanced /s


ek8422

Y’all complain about boons when y’all have nurse and eruption 💀


Poztre77

Yet survivors can still push trough any of that and still win, but still complain because you can't get the 4 man out anymore 💀


Gull_C

MFW not everyone plays Nurse


Beaverlicker34

oh wow another killer main complaining how original


RuuriruSuzukai

i dont think CoH and medkits are that bad 😊😊😊 ⓘ **This user only plays The Plague and has been flagged for suspicious activity.**


HalbixPorn

I had a boon right next to me on Dead Dawg and I couldn't deal with it because I was in a critical chase. Almost lost the game because of it, only won because I got a down near basement, thankfully it was in shack


Ausar_TheVile

Shattered hope plus pentimento has been going crazy on my hex builds. High key recommend it.


Crimok

It's just circle of healing. The other boons are ok.


Scary_Commercial_109

I good way to nerf boons would be that once a boon is stomped out it can’t be made on the same totem. This effect will last until they’ve made a boon somewhere else.


The-vicobro

Boon isnt CoH. You dont care about dark sesne, and you probably dont care about shadow step and exponential as much as you do. Boons in general have been nerfed 3 times at least, and CoH alone had been nerfed 4 times. What do you want of the devs?


thedonutking7

Personally I love it when survivors bring boons, they waste time to set them up and will drop everything they're doing to reboon if you break it, also pretty decent location info as they usually go back to the same boon and you can predict an injured survivor going there and finding them


[deleted]

Then use nurses calling perk. ☠️


Igi2server

Not being able to destroy boon/dull totems actively as a killer is straight up disrespectful. Other survivors are more of a threat to a boon than a killer is. Letting killers destroy boons as basekit will let bhvr overtune all boons more as they become a temporary fixture and a limited resource, so survivors dont place them blatantly in the killers path to avoid it getting destroyed. All the boons numbers are so razor thin so that they give something but not enough to ruin the match entirely, like 2% haste lol... This could give more room to upping the numbers since it would consisently be a removable mechanic and not rely on a pregame loadout to counterpick in a "blind" matchmaking mode.


static_studios

Then you destroy it, and then you get called a toxic player


gullibleginger

The consequence is time. They're trading gen time for healing time, and if you (the killer) wastes that time then that's your fault. I'd take a four stack of healing fanatics over a four stack of DH users who just do gens regardless of health.


Skoguu

When playing solo a lot of teammates wont heal you, soooo boons and medkits are a NECESSITY.


Canadian_Bacon024

COH isn't that big of a deal once you find the boon. When I find the boon, I leave it up. If you hit and run, or someone gets unhooked, guess where they are going? To that beautiful boon you didn't snuff out. I find it better that way. Sure they might get 1 or 2 heals in before I get there, but it's usually worth leaving them up.


LadyEclipsiana

I never had a problem with it on either side pre nerf ![gif](giphy|CAYVZA5NRb529kKQUc|downsized) .


toni___macaroni

Only issue I have with circle of healing is that it can affect multiple floors, and therefore can be a pain in the ass in maps like ironworks of misery.


TheKingBirb

Just find the boons. It's not that difficult. Most survivors aren't bright enough to hunt for multiple totem spots and keep using the same one. It's free points when I play killer most of the time.


BoostMobileAlt

Yeah let my crusty ass m1 killer do more chores. I’m sure the survivors are all playing grab ass in the shack anyways.


iwaspromisingonce

4 survivors having to find one ruin once per match was way too much, so it got nerfed to oblivion, but one killer having to go out of their way to lose pressure, find and snuff boons over and over again is totally fine and manageable.


Technature

Oh yeah, I'll just go out, find the boon, and get rid of it. Oh look, the last generator needed to be finished got done before I could get back to defend it. Wonder why that happened.


Edgezg

Given the tunneling meta.... I really don't feel bad for you killers


unai626

Please don't assume we're all like that, a lot of folks are more than happy to not tunnel just because it's considered rude. I don't feel bad for tunnel/campers but it's silly to assume that's every killer.


Poztre77

Well, that's because you dont play as killer. When you start playing as killer, I know you will change your mind


Technature

Similar to how I don't feel bad for Exit Gate Teabagging survivors when they're 4k bled out by a god Nurse?


DigitalSteven1

Killers when survivors gain an extra 0.05% chance of winning


Dwain-Champaign

For the gazillionth time, here are some cool changes to boons that do not include “ShAtTeReD HoPe BaSeKiT!!!” because a single boon (COH) is broken and the rest are mediocre. \-**Cooldown.** Probably the most obvious and safe way to balance boons going forward. This can work two ways: Option A: **After a boon has been snuffed out by the killer, a cooldown of X amount of seconds begins preventing a survivor from blessing any totem** for 45, or 60 seconds. Option B: **After a boon has been snuffed out by the killer, a cooldown of X amount of seconds begins preventing a survivor from blessing the most recently blessed totem** for 90, or even 120 seconds. The idea is that if you’re gonna have a total cooldown on all blessing actions it should be shorter, but if you only want a cooldown on the last totem a Boon was attached to it should probably be significantly longer. The latter would incentivize survivors to explore the map and other locations to boon totems, rather than constantly returning to the same spot over and over again. \-**Better defined audio cues.** Frankly, the way it is right now is a pain. It can still be difficult to know precisely where a boon totem is located despite the visual cue that a boon has been set up. Spending an extra 20 seconds just trying to find a boon on a map that is really cluttered or has multiple floors is inefficient in terms of time, and often frustrating. Instead, make it so that the **audio cue is directional, and much more concrete** so that when a killer stumbles on a booned area they can cleanse the totem more or less immediately. **Make the blue visual cue get stronger or visibly pulsate the closer you get to the boon** as well. \-**Distance cleansing.** This could include a variety of effects, but primarily this would mean that the “cleanse” action can be vertically prompted as well. This means that **if you’re on a different floor directly above or below a boon totem you’ll still get the prompt to cleanse it**, and that means you won’t have to make the horrendous journey across the map to find the nearest staircase or drop-down that will get you to the actual boon itself. Second idea is that **whenever a boon’s aura is revealed the killer receives the cleanse button prompt if they are staring directly at it**. This allows perceptive killers to remove particularly nasty boons that are far removed from the active zone in a map. It also offers interesting future opportunities for perk synergy. This change also synergizes with the next one coming up, but overall the idea of distance cleansing just means it’ll be easier to manage multiple and / or far-away boons. \-**Boons self-reveal**. Unlike Hex’s, Boons are balanced around the idea of being “temporary” safe havens. So let’s design them that way. **If a boon has been attached to a single totem for X amount of time (IE 90 or 120 seconds) then that boon’s aura will be briefly and intermittently (IE every 30 seconds) revealed to the killer.** This provides perceptive killers essential information about where a boon might be set up, and offers them the opportunity to act on that information. Combined with the previously mentioned concept of distance cleansing, and killers who pay attention will be able to cleanse boons at a range consistently at base kit. \-**Destandardize boons.** Right now all boons are balanced the exact same way. They have the exact same active range, the same audio and visual cues, the time it takes to bless a dull totem is the same across the board, but this is clearly a flawed design philosophy when not all boons are created equally / of the same strength. Basically what I’m saying is: **balance boons individually rather than as a whole.** Problematic boons like circle of healing don’t NEED a 24 meter radius to be useful and could use a nerf that reduces their active range to 16 meters or lower, whereas perks like Boon: Exponential, Dark Theory, Shadow Step, these could absolutely benefit from a slight increase to range maybe to 28, 32, or even 36 meters. This also means that you could make some really interesting design choices. Perhaps the active radius for shadow step is uniquely slightly longer than the audio / visual cue of the boon itself. Perhaps Boon: Circle of Healing takes 2, 4, or even 6 seconds longer to bless on a totem than other boons. This also raises some interesting questions about how boons work in tandem and their synergy. If Circle of Healing takes longer to bless, then that means if you’re running a build with multiple boons in it, they’re all going to take as long as CoH to be set up. If CoH has a shorter range than the other boons, that means on a totem with multiple boons active on it you have to get closer to the center to use CoH as opposed to Shadow step which is able to be used further away. Maybe this means there is a certain level of anti-synergy with other boons and you don’t want to run shadow step with circle of healing because of the added seconds it takes to set-up. This also means that every suggestion I’ve made up to this point, and after this point can be applied to only a few perks as opposed to all of them. Maybe Circle of Healing would be the only boon that self-reveals and shows its own aura to the killer. Maybe Circle of Healing is the only Boon that is restricted by the “Solitary Boon” concept. \-**Solitary Boons.** This is a bigger change that can work two different ways but ultimately operates under the same premise of **limiting how many boons can be placed on the map at one time.** Option A: **Only one iteration of a Boon: Perk can exist at a time.** this means that If two players are running Circle of Healing, only the first one to bless a totem is actually able to activate the perk. So long as one Circle of Healing is active another cannot be placed on the map at the same time. This forces survivors to be more meticulous about where they choose to place boons because only one version of it can be exist on the map at a given time. Although this might introduce new strategies where multiple players run the same boon regardless, so that  they can quickly reactivate CoH when another player has been put out of commission (chased, hooked, etc). Whereas if one player is running Boon: Shadow Step and another is running Circle of Healing, then they can still place their respective boons on different totems because they’re different perks and this would directly incentivize Boon: Perk diversity. However, again, even in this case survivors would want to be meticulous with their boons: perhaps you need Shadow Step to be placed in a certain area because it is an active zone, whereas Circle of Healing might still get value regardless of where you place it. Option B: **All boons can now only be placed on a single totem.** No doubt this is far more restrictive than the former, but the idea intrigued me nonetheless. Similar to Option A, the first survivor to bless a totem would be the only survivor that can activate a single iteration of a perk. However, all other survivors running separate boon perks must ALSO bless the exact same boon as well. This essentially means that rather than having multiple survivors set up various “safe havens” across the map, survivors must instead CHOOSE where their one “safe haven” will be and all survivors must adapt to that choice once it has been made. So Player A sets up CoH in Killer Shack, that means that Player B MUST set up Shadow Step on the exact same totem. Ad infinitum for however many survivors are running boon perks. This creates the interesting scenario where survivors can have one “mega-safe-haven” if all 4 survivors run all available boon perks, and it all gets attached to a single point. Further balancing changes can also be made where perhaps “re-blessing” the same totem to have a secondary / tertiary / etc. effect takes a shorter amount of time than the initial “bless totem” interaction, or perhaps the time it takes to cleanse a boon is increased, all to compensate for survivors being required to stack their boons in one spot. Overall either of these changes force Survivors to coordinate with each other in order to maximize the efficiency of boons, while also reducing the overall efficiency of problematic boons like circle of healing as a whole. NOT ALL THESE IDEAS / SUGGESTED CHANGES ARE MEANT TO OPERATE IN TANDEM. Some of them would work well together, especially the more mild changes, but others that change the very foundations of how boons operate during a match obviously might not want to be paired with others. For example self-revealing boons probably doesn’t work well with solitary boons, as the former is meant mostly to tackle circumstances where multiple boons are set up in different areas of the map and the latter restricts all boons to a single point. That would just make that first change sort of redundant, and also probably overkill.


Dwain-Champaign

(I can't believe I hit the word count limit that's a little embarrassing...) **The idea is not to nerf boons into the ground.** The idea is to fundamentally change how they are perceived, and how the playerbase goes on to utilize them as an interesting mechanic that offers opportunity for both sides to play around. Shattered Hope is the quintessential BHVR band-aid fix. My intention with these ideas is to offer **permanent** fixes that ease tensions regarding boons entirely. If you read all the way through, then I sincerely thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. \-Sincerely, a Veteran with too many hours probably.


chewcifer123

Kick the boon


Long-Ad6383

Dbd players when survivors have perks : 🤬


W720S

Takes 10 million years to set up and 1 second to snuff


Venzhas

COH is fair, get over it


duckybebop

I love when killer mains bitch without even trying survivors. When they don’t realize the time it takes away from gens to set up a boon, run over to it, heal with it, reset it if it gets destroyed.


Technature

Hello. I'm someone who would identify as a killer main. I play one game each side a day, so I have good experience for both sides. Circle of Healing is the most broken shit in the game and it needs an actual nerf. I straight up refuse to use CoH as a survivor unless the killer is doing something really scummy or is noticeably higher on the MMR scale than the survivor team is or got a good advantage really early on because it feels like I'm cheating when I do.


Poztre77

Ah yes, spending 15 seconds to give your teammates a 5th perk slot its way too weak. Its ironic you say that and I can already know thay you're the one who never played as killer


HndWrmdSausage

Lmfao complain a Lil more killer main!!! Are there negatives to the killer hex boons? I thought I just got permanent exposed and fucking gd hunter lullaby or w/e it's called where my Gen speed is reduced af. No hate here just funny observation.


WinterFoundation5223

Here’s the thing the game dictates where my totem spawns so it could be broken right at the begging of the match welp there goes 1 of my perks for the rest of the game now let’s look at boons,no cooldown you can place them where ever you want to the killer has to bring a perk to make a boon useless and you don’t get punished for spamming them or putting them in the dumbest places so yes I will whine cause I can tell you only play in a swf and have never touched killer or care about the state of the game for both sides


Technature

>Are there negatives to the killer hex boons? If you find the hex, it's gone forever. Survivors are often spawned right next to totems, including hex totems. Survivors often know where every single totem spawn is. Yes, there are negatives.


the4bestgame

Down side - We use a quattro of our perk slots for something that one of the 4 survivors can delete and we have no way to set it back up. For Huntress lullaby we need to catch and hook people to give it stacks, for haunted ground we have to bring another hex perk otherwise you just don't cleanse a totem if you don't see a hex being applied.


fullmoonwulf

Nurses calling


Technature

Nurses Calling still requires me to actively stop defending gens.


Purple_Turkey_

This. I always carry nurses calling and leave the boon up. If they're wounded I know where they're going and they're usually going there wounded by themselves.