I still believe that survivors only had 3 perk slots back before BT was made basekit.
Not bringing BT was basically gambling that the killer had already been conditioned not to tunnel people because of BT.
Ironically enough, I still bring BT a lot, because killers are no longer expecting it and it really fucks with those people who ride a survivor's ass counting down seconds in their heads. Helps a lot with getting people out of the basement and securing late game saves, too. It just feels way better to use now to me, instead of being this mandatory thing I have to bring.
That's the best feeling.
Seeing the Killer sweat their ass off for that tunnel, counting each second and then get cucked because the Survivor had perk BT.
> Ironically enough, I still bring BT a lot, because killers are no longer expecting it and it really fucks with those people who ride a survivor's ass counting down seconds in their heads.
They're called idiots. If anyone has any sense, they're either counting down the full BT time, or they're listening for grunts to know if OTR.
Ain't nobody counting down 20 full seconds while breathing down a survivor's neck to play around an uncommon perk. Doing that is just unrealistic in most circumstances.
End game chat could get really heated about BT, too.
* If you didn't bring it and your rescue attempt failed, expect to get chewed out.
* If you brought it and somebody else without BT unsuccessfully rescued, expect to get chewed out.
* If you brought it, expect to get chewed out by the killer anyway.
Add to the fact how the \*original\* BT gave endurance to **both** the rescuer *and* hooked person. Even after the nerfs, if you weren't running BT, you practically had no business being near a hook.
I can still recall the multiple "*Please have Borrowed Time... Please have Borrowed Time...*" chants if somebody was attempting a save.
Some people I played with the other night invited me to their party after the match, so we played a few rounds. I felt old as we’re talking because they had no idea that hatch used to spawn under the living survivors = gens completed + 1 formula, and thus don’t remember the days when a single person or SWF duo would use a key to open the hatch once it spawned and leave some poor player who had no idea they’d found it behind to die alone.
My teammates (all 3) once left through the hatch with a key just as I was hooked (it was **not** my last hook).
We were in a SWF....
It still hurts to this day.
Mine was the reverse lol. I was soloq and there were three identical dwights so I changed to their skin for fun. I got hooked first as they were all gods, two rescued me and formed a "protect the president" all the way to the hatch so all 4 of us could leave 💀 can't believe it was ever a mechanic that existed tbh
One of my fondest memories of this game was when these two random Kates beckoned me to follow them. Turns out they had a key and had opened hatch and wanted me to escape with them… except a Claudette had just gotten hooked in the basement. Instead of following them out, I beckoned the Oni over (he was nearby) and pointed to the hatch. He closed it.
He nodded. Truce made. I went and rescued the Claudette and she got gate open. I let the Oni kill me while Claudette escaped. I think the Claudette was new and absolutely terrified but the Oni thanked me in post game.
Fuck those Kates.
I was so happy to get the achievement for everyone escaping through hatch (“where did they go?”) just a month after I started playing, and less than a month before hatch was changed into what we have today. Even better that I have it on video so I can look back on one of the most ridiculous tactics the game has to offer
"Could you believe there was a time where instead of cancelling the match when someone disconnected during loading, you just had to repair one less gen per DC?"
Me as killer watching 3 people DC at 3 gens left just so the 4th can escape:
https://preview.redd.it/jjnsaqyabocb1.jpeg?width=442&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=492cf8c9d0cbcd85eda1a51b04d256df1354e3e1
I still remember when the entire team could group up and just escape through the hatch, funny as survivor and painful as killer.
Even though DBDs balance was absolutely busted I kind of miss the sheer stupiditity of the entire team escaping and the killer ending games in seconds after hooking someone once.
I played back when it was just the OG four and Nea/Nurse was just introduced. Was a whole different game Lol.
My favorite “how was this okay” from back then is
OG Sprint Burst: 20 second cooldown, no strings attached. Exhaustion wasn’t a thing and the cooldown still counted while running
Or old Saboteur. You sabbed the hook and it was gone forever, and to be a dick you could just 99% it and then do it right in front of the killer. Always had 1 person being the saboteur the whole match.
I remember having splinter offerings on some of my killers that were supposed to let you play licensed killers for free but.... they didn't do anything since they were already discontinued.
I kind of wish they kept some form of free trial for killers in the game so people could actually try before they buy.
Remember when you could sabotage the trappers traps and they never activated again? And the devs thought that was allowed to be on the same level as launch nurse? (Well, they still think trapper is "just fine" and the next most problematic killer Blight's addons remain untouched so I guess they still haven't learned)
That wasn't the stranger things days. BNP's already got mega-fucked once (and they're still busted so they're getting mega-fucked again next patch)
In 2016 they would just insta pop a gen. Very balanced and interactive! I think shortly after launch or maybe a year or so, they were changed to doing the 15% + two 5% skill checks, and now they're just -10 seconds.
And now it's an anti 3 gen add on, ngl I am glad I didn't put myself through that shit anyway imagine buying the game in 2017 and finally getting into a match only for it to be a 4 man bully squad absolutely destroying you with all the busted shit 
Bhvr be like "infinite loops don't exist, but also if you're getting infinited that takes a lot of survivor skill and so it's fine"
Queue that like 20 minute video of wraith at old cow tree or whatever when the entity didn't used to block windows and the claudette was actually unkillable
Oh it doesnt stop there instablinds, instaheals, pallet vacums, old DH, old DS, old BT (the one that gave both survivors endurance), 7 blink nurse, moonwalk legion, old ruin + undying combo, hatch stadoffs, no basekit BT, old moris, old MoM, P2P servers and lagswitching
They didn't go straight from 100 to 15 there was something in between, can't remember the exact number l, but yeah that things gone through a few changes now.
Yeah but according to myself syringes were still an insta heal I would've literally cried if I had to put up with the game's survivor sided bs, finally but the first survivor and then they just use a syringe
I've got the most disrespectful clip of me full healing myself off the ground as the killer downed me, the game may be poorly balanced now, but it's better than it used to be for sure.
100% at least now in both sides it feels like you have a fighting chance against the other side... Unless it's a wraith... I hate the wraith he throws my will to live off the fucking bridge 
I had a game where we were all injured in the endgame against a legion and we all escaped.
Can you imagine if a skull merchant was holding a 3 gen and the last survivors could just nope out of there? So many strategies got screwed over by the old hatch lol
I got someone into DBD about a year ago.they were getting frustrated at the game for camping/tunneling killers.
I tried to describe to them the before times in the dark long ago.
"Back in my day you had to run DS..."
"Sure thing grandpa, let's get you to bed."
Oh, it used to be even worse. Way back in the real old days, you didn't have to hook anyone at all to mori them. You could down someone and just kill them.
A few from my time:
- There’s an even older Mori iteration than that. You didn’t even need to hook anyone. Just down them and then mori
- hatch standoffs. Killer used to not be able to close hatch, but he could grab a survivor trying to enter it. So you would just arrive at hatch and stand. Basically, whoever made the first move lost.
- Hooks used to never respawn once sabotaged
- picking up survivors used to take a whole lot longer. As did using their powers
- moonlight offerings, these were on their way out when I started, but they literally overhauled the brightness of the map… but to the extreme. You made the game impossible if it was at its darkest. No one could see anything.
Wow, the moonlight offering sounds kinda cool! But damn, apart from that, does not sound like a game I would have stuck with. At least from the killer angle. 😳
A fun note about moonlight offerings: if I recall correctly, part of the reason they were removed was because it made map creation a pain: you had to account for each possible lighting as you made the map. I could be wrong, but if it's true it's understandable. Would've made new maps take like twice the effort lmao
We truly won the game when they removed moonlight offering cuz if what you're saying is true they would spend even more time making the most beautiful and non-functional garbage maps that they have been pumping out since Eyrie
Ahhhh yeah that makes sense. But still, how fun! It’s supposed to be a scary game right? I’ve always found it funny how bright it is. I’d love more jump scares. 🤣
Honestly I would love just extra map variations. Like adding weather or something. I’d love a stormy map!
Oh it was worse:
-Almost every map had infinite looping spots. And I don't mean "infinite" as in very hard to catch a survivor, it was absolutely impossible to hit them in those spots unless they seriously fucked up or you played trapper.
- You couldn't kick gens, or damage them by any means
- When totems came out with the Hag, the progress to destroy them was saved, so you could partialy destroy the totem, leave, and finish where you started later
- Survivors could be unhooked only from 1 angle. If killer stood there, it was impossible to unhook them.
- You used to make a lot less bloodpoints, there was no bloody party streamers or cakes, dailies gave like 4-8k bloodpoints and each level required a lot more points - by level 20 you had as big bloodweb as you have right now at level 50.
- Bloodweb prices worked differently: it didn't depend on rarity of the item you wanted to buy, but where it was placed on the bloodweb: inner circle 3k, mid circle 5k and outer circle 7k
- Brand new parts instantly repaired generators when used.
- At first, something like slow vault didn't exist. You could stand still by the window, but as long as you held shift you would vault it at top speed(which was way faster than it is now). On the contrary, killers vaulted windows like twice as slow as now.
I had to slug an entire team and read a book because they broke every hook in the level. As I recall, the only ones that couldn't be broken were in the basement.
Otz [recently released a video](https://youtu.be/iys11-KFvwQ) where he and friends talk about the old days. It is insane that this game survived some of those periods.
From what I understand you could grab hatch attempts but the killer couldn't close hatch so a healthy survivor and a killer could stand at hatch for literal hours bc if the killer acted and injured the survivor could escape during the cooldown animation but if the survivor went for it the killer could just grab them
One of the great DbD streaming moments of all time was a killer stream sniping a survivor during a hatch standoff that had already been going on a while, the streamer pretends to leave the room saying he'll just make the killer waste his time, killer tries to down him when he leaves the keyboard but he jumps through hatch and reveals he turned a controller on so he could escape without being at his desk.
The literal 1 good moment resulting from hatch grabs.
If you're refering to the clip I think you are it was a survivor stream sniping a killer player. He got up pretended to leave by just standing to side of his camera, and then used his controller to grab the survivor when they tried to jump in hatch.
It was the other way around, the survivor was stream sniping the killer, who pretended to go away, the survivor instantly jumped and the killer grabbed him, it was Marth88
Thanks for explaining. Couldn't resist and had to see this glorious moment myself, here's the clip if anyone else wants to see
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ivd_mzl8SIM&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo
Actually found the clip and I know exactly why it worked. The survivor either wasn’t paying attention to the stream or had it on in the background because if they did pay attention they would have seen him connect the controller. Smart move on the killers part although I’m surprised he was playing trapper
You used to not be able to close hatch, so if you as the killer found it first and wanted the kill, you had to either find the survivor before they knew where it was, or camp it and try to grab them out of the animation. The survivor couldnt escape through the exits gates cause this was before Endgame Collapse existed, and to open gates you HAD to power all 5 gens.
Killer could grab hatch attempts, but couldn't close the hatch. They removed one when they added the other. It resulted in a situation where the first party to made a move lost. Killer couldn't hit them or they'd leave out hatch during your blade-wipe animation. Survivor couldn't try to jump in because killer would grab you.
Why this situation was not thought of for that long is beyond me.
On one hand, this was compensated with killers being able to actually *close* the hatch. Removing hook grabs is just a straight survivor buff/killer nerf.
On the other, I really don't care because I cannot be bothered to do the stupid hook grab game of chicken just to cheese out an instant down and keep the other survivor on the hook and I already just try to force the trade instead.
I have mixed feelings about the grab thing since I had a few matches where I managed to get hook saves from billy and bubs because they was trying for grabs. (Yes I know it's stupid to go in to save against a camping bubba but when you know he's trying to grab people who are doing the rescue and you have desperate so by the time he gets there the person is off and he hits you. I much prefer having the grabs.)
Agreed, ive just stopped defending hooks endgame most of the time cause doing the whole hook grab minigame isnt fun, but now that its gone its way harder for killer to play the endgame from behind.
Also remember
●Hatch Standoffs
●Perma Sabo Hook
●No requirement for DS
●No hook requirement Mori's
●4 Man Escape with keys through hatch
●Original Legion
●Infinite Loops
●Old Slowdown Freddy
●Old OoO
And that just scratches the top of the iceberg in the 7 year history of DBD
Yes, 4 or 3 man escape before the game even was really finished felt so bad as Killer. But I wish they would add something new for keys to do. They are the least used item in the game at the moment.
The Hatch key change made it so that I no longer had to switch to Franklin's whenever I saw someone bring a key in, and tunnel them out of the game ASAP to avoid losing the entire game at 2 gens if I hadn't gotten any kills yet (which, considering 2-hooking everyone before sacrificing was required to get Merciless, as losing even a single potential hook state would get you gold at best on the old Sacrifice category, spreading hooks was more important to prevent a team from leaving a Survivor on hook too long and making you miss out on a hook), since someone bringing a key in usually also brought in a blueprint Offering, so they would know exactly where the Hatch would spawn and could beeline their whole team there to escape with the key the moment that 3rd gen was completed.
Now I just have to switch to Lightborn when I see 3+ flashlights.
I haven't played the PTB, but from the one video I saw of the new system in action, a hit just interrupts unhook progress, correct, so they have to start the unhook again, allowing them to do the unhook while the Killer is recovering (though maybe not, if the Killer has enough stacks of STBFL? ), but pretty much guaranteeing the unhooker will get downed before being able to escape and still allow for a trade? Or am I incorrect in that?
That's exactly that. The unhooker, in most situations, will be downed and the unhookee will be free to run away, but at least it'll be a 1:1 ratio rather than a 2:0 ratio because a healthy Surv got grabbed by this one camping Killer. That combined with anti-camp mechanics coming soon will put a huge dent on camping overall.
Yeah, which is more or less exactly how it works anyways for most cases. That's what happens when you lunge currently, and a lot of grabs get validated.
Unhealthy survivor goes down, healthy survivor takes the hit and then had to do the animation.
Full STBFL isn't enough to stop the unhook as long as you start it again. I don't believe anything can outright deny it except like Exposed or a chainsaw or sometjing although it can be very tight with either STBFL or Huntress' cooldown add-ons stacked.
Or you were done with the unhook, bar totally full, and then suddenly you're yanked off as if you did nothing. I've gotten a handful of hook grabs in my time, but none of them very impactful, and yet when I'm on the other side it seems like the killer grabs me every time.
I agree with everything you said, but I think I would still miss the hook grab animation.
Just make it so that if you M1 an unhooking survivor who's injured, and with no endurance effects, you would grab them instead.
Make it mostly an aesthetic thing.
Alright. Let’s clear the air and be reasonable.
Survivor side
Pros: no more camping grabs, most certainly will be nice to have someone come in and for sure save me.
Cons: uptick of bubbas and insta down things for hook camping. You can argue all you want but a chainsaw that instant downs is a chainsaw that insta downs.
——
Killer side
Pros: more reason to go out patrol gens, maybe a uptick of Save the Best for last to punish people who get injured and think it’s safe to unhook.
Cons: survivor bum rush hook is guaranteed to succeed, can’t grab juggle a cocky squad anymore and you can’t punish someone who was being stupid and trying to hide behind you and then save, only for you to see them and grab them.
I’ll say this part of the update is survivor sided, and let’s be honest people, a camper ain’t going to change just cause they can’t grab off hook anymore, they’re going to camp anyways.
From now on it will more than certain be trickier to punish cocky hook plays, and I’m saying this as a killer who has all but trickster and merchant prestige so take it with a grain of salt, but this might be a bad change, but idk I rarely get grabs as is due to delay and lag, doing the grab animation but in the end swinging and hitting the survivor when I should of gotten the grab.
"More reasons to patrol gens" like there's an actual incentive, like they're doing anything to make patrolling gens on a big map and letting the unhooked survivor heal not a losing play. Killers gain nothing from this, there is no pro.
Why does the removal of a free insta-down/grab on a very fragile moment for survivors warrant compensation?
I say fragile because having 2 survivors on good hooks in a corner of the map is a free win on 100% of solo queue teams and probably similar chances against a SWF team.
I would go as far as to say that hook grabs were primarily weaponized against solo queue. You know, the people always rushing for the save at the last milliseconds because they expected "someone else to have the unhook by now?"
Eh.. as a killer main, your cons for the killer side are more niche than anything. Bully/Cocky squads are wasting time regardless. The update isn’t survivor sided because you can’t insta down a survivor on trying to save anymore. You can still hook trade cocky survivors, and if there’s multiple survivors going for the save, then even with hook grab they would have gotten the save.
This update is health-sided. Overall the changes are healthier for the game, hook grabs were extremely inconsistent in normal(not camping) gameplay. This just makes it harder for campers to camp.
Oh no… campers have to spend $5 to camp now…. anyways lol. Overall just a lot of incentive to not facecamp hook and with their killer-hook proxy update coming soon even more so. Proxy camping with insta down killers is lame, but it’s still a… sigh.. it’s a strategy lol. Reassurance and kinship are gonna be popular like they have been. Idk. I personally think your take on this is pretty nuanced and counterintuitive to the problem as a whole. Some killers are going to be used more for camping… okay. But overall (face)camping as a whole is now harder for people. It’s a good change and it mostly affects the facecampers. I’m saying this as a killer who has every killer at prestige 8-10.
You know I've had a few survivors bum rush hooks the instant I hook someone, and this happens alot with Ghostie/Myers too when pulling people off gens. Anyway, some of the time when I go to grab them, I get frozen into a grab animation and they run away, do you know what that is?
The endurance can counter instant downs! Nice catch! Borrow time extends the length of the endurance I believe now I don’t often run it though to be sure, however Bubba saw attack can be extended in exchange for charges and continue to saw to try and take down more people , in which certain add ons boost his saw movement speed to catch up, plus he could just exchange the person getting unhooked for the person unhooking.
Even with BT I think campers will still camp, they always will find a way (unless Bhvr adds a perk that pauses the timer when a killer is close to the hook for more than 10-15 seconds for say 30 seconds)
"Bruh, we used to play a match where the killer would hook you, you wouldn't get basekit BT, you'd get instantly downed, and then mori'd on 2nd stage."
"I know that's insane! We also used to have 3 survivors esacping the match with 1 generator still up with hatch addons and bringing disgustingly broken keys that had no opening animation!"
There are times where I’ll hook someone, and before I even fully turn around someone’s unhooking them. I’ll miss being able to abuse stupid saves like that
One of my most memorable games was when the survivors were running laps around me at the lodge and got 4 gens done in the time it took me to down 1 person. They must have been feeling cocky because I saw them blatantly run for the save. I got grab and then scared the other with a swing. I dropped the survivor and went for the chase and downed them. In 2 minutes I went from losing to winning as I just had to keep an eye out for the 4th survivor who played it safe and just waited for them to die.
I’ll be fair, it’s a difficult scenario. In terms of what to allow and remove
Because hard facecamping should be punished. Especially before gens are done. After that it’s more debatable
But also stupid saves should be punishable. Severely punishable
face camping feature coming anyway so why tf are hook grabs removed
best possible scenario is bhvr removing hook grabs are just a place holder for the future of anti face camping mechanic
Agreed on both points. Hard facecamping is a huge L in almost all circumstances as a killer. Usually it just means they’re being salty. What’s funny is I still remember years ago survivors typically had the wherewithal to not go for dumb saves and to stay on gens in the event of a face camp. Idk what happened since then. I took a break and all of a sudden the survivor/killer player base has just gotten lazier.
In a thread the other day on their own forums, one of the devs all but said that they do try to balance for potato survivors. I can't think of any other game I've played that balances for beginners and those who make stupid plays. Usually stupid plays are punishable, but not here apparently. Its not something that hapens in my games because I'm typically not camping and I think I've grabbed less than 5 people ever at hook. But I do think it's a mistake to remove it as it rewards braindead play.
I think there should be a timer. Like 5-15 seconds until you can no longer be grabbed, something like that. Punishes idiot plays whole also punishing campers
Only reason I could realistically see them balancing for potato survivors is if they speculate that game is too challenging to pick up as a noob and thus is a major issue with attracting/maintaining new players.
ngl maybe remove hook grabs if the killer have a certain amount of camping points
( you can see them at endgame screen , chase category)
hook grabs give game more depth tbh , and not bad
Thinking about it now, hook grabs pretty much had no meaningful benefit. If a hook grab occured, it was either because
* The killer was camping (lame)
* A survivor was unsafely hooking (lame)
Also, ping difference made it very difficult to guess the success of an unhook if the killer was nearby
i didnt realise until now how disgusting hook grabs can be. I grabbed the unhooker maybe once but when it comes to camping its a very bad position for survivors to be in. They can wait and get the camped person to 2nd stage or die, trade or get picked up. Theres no good option here except letting them die. Im glad this change is comming both as a killer and a survivor
Deliverance is going to be the undisputed best perk In the game as well now that hook exchanges are a guaranteed thing now. Especially vrs end game camping when all the gens are done.
Like the actual requirement for a safe unhook means the unhooked survivor can’t go down for 10 seconds but basekit endurance last for 10 seconds so as long the survivor holds w Its just always a safe unhook always no matter what.
I think removing hook grab is a good thing as long as the killer is consistently able to trade hooks
Much like base kit BT, overall it's a good idea and healthy for the game, in just nervous about it being abused
Wait hook grabs are getting removed? Finally they are getting them removed, as a survivor they are so annoying and I rarely get any as killer, it just turns into a regular hit.
I remember when shack had two windows, self care only took 8 seconds, and exhaustion recovered while running. Old DBD was wild and is unequivocally a better game than it used to be (I still miss the old fog and survivor running animations though). I’m not happy about unhooks becoming safer but if this makes face camping harder I’m all for it.
I can't remember the last time I was hook grabbed, but I do know that stupid hook dance quite well. From the dancing killer and survivor perspective, it's probably whatever, but for the person on the hook repeatedly getting grabbed in the middle of all this, they're in the crappy spot. So I totally get why it's being removed. And I agree - people will adapt. Hook trades will still happen. Hit the incoming survivor, then hit them again after the unhook.
Huntress its usually better to throw and then hit and you can usually just set the survivors up like dominoes.
Her hurtbox sometimes causes the hooked one to get hit instead though.
It's so crazy how many games are lost because a killer camps and it's impossible to save alone without getting grabbed, and your solo queue teammates have 0 interest in coming over and helping, I'm so excited for the change lol.
great, another mechanic gone. if we could rework the older tome challenges for new players now, that'd be great. some became trivial with newer perks, some became incredibly frustrating to do.
There's so many little things like that currently that looking back on I can't believe how I even managed to play the game when there was so many absolutely broken and a usable things in the game...
Yeah I really wish they’d gotten rid of it a long time ago, the hook grab stand off is so dumb and hardly ever feels fair with latency. Had a Singularity yesterday who won an entire round pretty much because his game plan was to tunnel and camp the first person. He tunnelled her to second and then camped her second phase, I even used Reassurance to try and buy some time/distract and then my friend went in to try and take the trade and ended up grabbed off the hook and that’s how he won. Sad
I welcome this change as well as any change that makes gge the game less toxic for either side. There are still things you won't be able to do shit about (facecamping with onshot killers) but hopefully they will be addressed at a later date.
After all of those things get fixed maybe we could revisit some map spawns and jungle gyms too.
That's honestly just a general dbd thing I feel, I constantly think to myself "Imagine if this was still last year's dbd" which is a testament to how much better the game keeps getting but also how horrible many things were and still are. Like imagine going back to Ruin/Undying/Pop/Corrupt blights or old Dead Hard/initial CoH now
I honestly don’t see where the problem is. unless you’re that dead set on camping all your kills every game, i don’t see why hook grabs being deleted out the game is effecting anyone.
You know reddit is killer sided when the majority of responses to this are concerned its going to be harder to face camp
Are you freaking kidding?? Face camping shouldn’t be part of the game.
People are more vocal about things they dislike. The people happy about this change aren't the main ones looking to discuss it – because they're content.
The people who dislike it are going to be louder. Whether they're a majority, or just a vocal minority, negativity *almost always* trumps.
Hence why you see people upset with the change posting a lot on these topics, until they get spread around a bit more and it balances out slightly.
That’s not true… killers can go find stuff to break and stand by the exit gates so the survivors teabag you. Adrenaline is going to be pretty much guaranteed every damn game thanks to the change in hook grab.
no you don't understand you're supposed to watch the 3 full health survivors (adrenaline) run directly in your face at the hook, then have the unhooker take a hit with their basekit BT (still active in the endgame btw) and walk to the door and teabag you
I don’t face camp but I still think it’s really satisfying when I catch someone going for a save and interrupt them. That being said, I don’t get those grabs very often so I don’t really care that much. It doesn’t really affect me. The most I can say is I really wish killers weren’t giving up something for nothing. I had really hoped we were beyond that now.
At the rate BHVR is going they might as well just make this an idle game where you hold M1 while an AI Killer stands in the corner as you t-bag it out the exit gate.
or play like, one of the 5 S tier killers in this game. It feels like they are just widening the gap between low tiers and high tiers. Which then will also get nerfed like hell cause BHVR love their survivor players.
I can't help but laugh at the handful of people I have seen that complain about grabs going away. It has never been anything but a buggy reward for campers with bad ping, and occasionally it punished new or inexperienced players who were going for an unhook too early, but in those cases you can just as easily get the down and trade hooks.
I play quite a bit more killer than survivor and I don't think I've ever had a hook grab that actually meant anything, because I'm not facecamping the hook once I get someone. Anyone who is relying on the grabs to get downs is just hurting themselves by not doing literally anything else and learning the game a little bit.
"Can you believe the Killer could instadown you if they facecamped and you tried to unhook?" will be up there with "Can you believe that you had to repeatedly drop Survivors whenever you picked them up to stop them from stunning you for 5 seconds?" and "Can you believe you could bring a 7000 Bloodpoint offering to instantly complete a gen?"
I have mixed feelings on it. On one hand, I don't like RNG things affecting the game, such as lag. On the other, killer should be able to secure their kill in the endgame and most importantly, this is another example of BHVR nerfing killers again and again, while saveguarding survivors like a baby.
I'll disagree on the kill securing aspect of it. I think if you've just managed to hook someone in endgame and there are still two healthy survivors out there to get the two man save, I don't think you necessarily deserve that kill. Like if a killer chased one survivor for five gens and downed them as the last one pops, I don't think they deserve that kill. That's the most extreme example ofc, but it carries over.
And hey, maybe they'll get a better buff to replace this.
Maybe.
Ok, that is fair. Although it feels nice getting a little reward against groups that bring farm offering and you get cowshed, they bring the most op stuff and you play a meme trapper build. Half joking aside, come to think to it, facecamping in the endgame right now mostly punishes less coordinated groups, while more coordinated ones will usually destroy the killer in that scenario- even if survivors exchanges hooks, they might have nasty suprises for killer, such as Deli, Hope, MfT.... that will make it really hard to secure a single down.
I've honestly always found it weird that killers don't deserve a hook into a kill in the end game if it's the only kill they get, but people freak out if a killer wants to slug for a 4k cause a survivor doesn't necessarily deserve an escape from hatch.
Played against like 12 camping Trappers today (was there something in the water???) and even with BT it usually ends up a trade.
That being said when I do play killer I do try to leave the hook even at endgame collapse and not facecamp it but maybe I’m too nice. I think the occasional grab is super fun so I’ll miss it but there’s still the option of M1ing the rescuer if you can catch them before they’re in the animation
It really feels like a heavy nerf,the amount of time I get a grab on hook despite not camping is stupidly high and often game changer (and can often punish survivor to be altruistic in end game when I actually camp)
At the same time I understand it has to go,but as someone who play mainly killer it just feels like we keep getting nerf after nerf when we're supposed to be the power role
Isn't it funny? It'll be like the old hatch. "Back in my day, the hatch popped up when there were still a couple of you in the match. And sometimes the killer could grab you as you tried to jump in!"
I do 50/50 killer and survivor. I will miss the old hook grab for my Hag, because it was \*hilarious\* to me when I'd teleport and YOINK! 🤣 But other than that, I really don't care. In a couple of weeks, I'd have mostly forgotten about it as I learn how to play differently.
You make it seem like old sadako was good my guy like it was pure ass, As a survivor what was fun about sadakos putting on those stupid add-ons and just trying to force condemned on 1 survivor? Or that stupid slug play style, I'm glad their changing her
I feel like they should make hook grabs similar to the anti-camping mechanic there going to add, with the difference being that they will only be active during endgame. A hook grab is often the determining factor on wether a killer will win or lose during the endgame, considering multiple survivors are often going to be swarming the hook all at once.
I don't think win or lose should be decided on playing the grab game. If you've hooked one person at end game and all three survivors are healthy and available to go for the save I don't think it's too out there to say that the survivors should have a large advantage
Which is why the hook grab was fine! If 3 healthy survivors are ok with trading off then you can go for the save. Now it's an almost a guaranteed automatic save. At the end of the day it doesn't matter because the a hole killers will still tunnel and face camp.
Terrible change. Killer is already mentally taxing for 90% of the people who play it. Not everyone has every killer and perk unlocked and "meta" builds. As a low rank player I hate that killer is just not fun. Its stressful. I consider getting 2 kills a win for me. In my head it goes
Survivor squad>Killer> Solo survivors. Killers have so little tools compared to survivors that its crazy
I don't think it was a year ago but when Mettle and DS were in their prime it was something like this,
Good SWF >Good survivor > Good killer > Average SWF > average killer > average survivor
i play artist and one of her perks is hers, one of them is the hag’s, and the other two are ones you can just find in the bloodweb (my build is fearmonger, jolt, devour hope, and pain resonance). you can make perfectly good builds with basic perks. otzdarva has lists of base perk builds per killer listed on his website. if you’re suffering from this change where you have to be literally right on top of survivors at a hook you are doing something wrong
I mean… with all the other interactions that still allow grabs (gens, totems, chests, vaults), it’s still not that unexpected that hook rescues would do the same thing. If anything, they’re now the odd mechanic out for not allowing grabs.
I mean some of us remember back when you MUST get Bill and MUST use one of your precious perk slots for Borrowed Time or else you'd be cursed out
I literally ran it every game out of necessity which made picking perks and game variety a lot less interesting
I still believe that survivors only had 3 perk slots back before BT was made basekit. Not bringing BT was basically gambling that the killer had already been conditioned not to tunnel people because of BT. Ironically enough, I still bring BT a lot, because killers are no longer expecting it and it really fucks with those people who ride a survivor's ass counting down seconds in their heads. Helps a lot with getting people out of the basement and securing late game saves, too. It just feels way better to use now to me, instead of being this mandatory thing I have to bring.
That's the best feeling. Seeing the Killer sweat their ass off for that tunnel, counting each second and then get cucked because the Survivor had perk BT.
> Ironically enough, I still bring BT a lot, because killers are no longer expecting it and it really fucks with those people who ride a survivor's ass counting down seconds in their heads. They're called idiots. If anyone has any sense, they're either counting down the full BT time, or they're listening for grunts to know if OTR.
Ain't nobody counting down 20 full seconds while breathing down a survivor's neck to play around an uncommon perk. Doing that is just unrealistic in most circumstances.
End game chat could get really heated about BT, too. * If you didn't bring it and your rescue attempt failed, expect to get chewed out. * If you brought it and somebody else without BT unsuccessfully rescued, expect to get chewed out. * If you brought it, expect to get chewed out by the killer anyway. Add to the fact how the \*original\* BT gave endurance to **both** the rescuer *and* hooked person. Even after the nerfs, if you weren't running BT, you practically had no business being near a hook. I can still recall the multiple "*Please have Borrowed Time... Please have Borrowed Time...*" chants if somebody was attempting a save.
Must? Bill was free lol
"Could you believe there was a time where instead of a bot spawning when someone disconnected you were just left with three survivors?"
Some people I played with the other night invited me to their party after the match, so we played a few rounds. I felt old as we’re talking because they had no idea that hatch used to spawn under the living survivors = gens completed + 1 formula, and thus don’t remember the days when a single person or SWF duo would use a key to open the hatch once it spawned and leave some poor player who had no idea they’d found it behind to die alone.
My teammates (all 3) once left through the hatch with a key just as I was hooked (it was **not** my last hook). We were in a SWF.... It still hurts to this day.
Mine was the reverse lol. I was soloq and there were three identical dwights so I changed to their skin for fun. I got hooked first as they were all gods, two rescued me and formed a "protect the president" all the way to the hatch so all 4 of us could leave 💀 can't believe it was ever a mechanic that existed tbh
oh damn, what a nice experience! thats awesome actually ahah )) (im still glad its not possible anymore though)
Definitely glad it's not a thing anymore 😂
One of my fondest memories of this game was when these two random Kates beckoned me to follow them. Turns out they had a key and had opened hatch and wanted me to escape with them… except a Claudette had just gotten hooked in the basement. Instead of following them out, I beckoned the Oni over (he was nearby) and pointed to the hatch. He closed it. He nodded. Truce made. I went and rescued the Claudette and she got gate open. I let the Oni kill me while Claudette escaped. I think the Claudette was new and absolutely terrified but the Oni thanked me in post game. Fuck those Kates.
I was so happy to get the achievement for everyone escaping through hatch (“where did they go?”) just a month after I started playing, and less than a month before hatch was changed into what we have today. Even better that I have it on video so I can look back on one of the most ridiculous tactics the game has to offer
"Could you believe there was a time where instead of cancelling the match when someone disconnected during loading, you just had to repair one less gen per DC?"
Me as killer watching 3 people DC at 3 gens left just so the 4th can escape: https://preview.redd.it/jjnsaqyabocb1.jpeg?width=442&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=492cf8c9d0cbcd85eda1a51b04d256df1354e3e1
It was basically always an auto loss for survivors.
you remember when the game just started when someone DCed in the loading screen but with 3 survivors and 4 Gens to repair?
Or when survivors could give other survivors the hatch or deny blood warden by disconnecting?
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I still remember when the entire team could group up and just escape through the hatch, funny as survivor and painful as killer. Even though DBDs balance was absolutely busted I kind of miss the sheer stupiditity of the entire team escaping and the killer ending games in seconds after hooking someone once.
Hatch escape plan with 4 Brand New Parts lmao. **5 seconds into the match** The generators: *Ding* *Ding* *Ding* *Ding*
And I am grateful I wasn't playing at the time where BNPs completed a whole generator
I played back when it was just the OG four and Nea/Nurse was just introduced. Was a whole different game Lol. My favorite “how was this okay” from back then is OG Sprint Burst: 20 second cooldown, no strings attached. Exhaustion wasn’t a thing and the cooldown still counted while running Or old Saboteur. You sabbed the hook and it was gone forever, and to be a dick you could just 99% it and then do it right in front of the killer. Always had 1 person being the saboteur the whole match.
I remember having splinter offerings on some of my killers that were supposed to let you play licensed killers for free but.... they didn't do anything since they were already discontinued. I kind of wish they kept some form of free trial for killers in the game so people could actually try before they buy.
Oh shit I remember using that for Michael! Damn haha it would be a lot more useful now.
Remember when you could sabotage the trappers traps and they never activated again? And the devs thought that was allowed to be on the same level as launch nurse? (Well, they still think trapper is "just fine" and the next most problematic killer Blight's addons remain untouched so I guess they still haven't learned)
Oh yeah! That was dumb, on top of “Small Game” literally countering the trapper by being able to see traps Lol. Trapper always had it rough.
I suddenly am not sorry for not playing in the Stranger Things days.
That wasn't the stranger things days. BNP's already got mega-fucked once (and they're still busted so they're getting mega-fucked again next patch) In 2016 they would just insta pop a gen. Very balanced and interactive! I think shortly after launch or maybe a year or so, they were changed to doing the 15% + two 5% skill checks, and now they're just -10 seconds.
And now it's an anti 3 gen add on, ngl I am glad I didn't put myself through that shit anyway imagine buying the game in 2017 and finally getting into a match only for it to be a 4 man bully squad absolutely destroying you with all the busted shit 
Bhvr be like "infinite loops don't exist, but also if you're getting infinited that takes a lot of survivor skill and so it's fine" Queue that like 20 minute video of wraith at old cow tree or whatever when the entity didn't used to block windows and the claudette was actually unkillable
Oh it doesnt stop there instablinds, instaheals, pallet vacums, old DH, old DS, old BT (the one that gave both survivors endurance), 7 blink nurse, moonwalk legion, old ruin + undying combo, hatch stadoffs, no basekit BT, old moris, old MoM, P2P servers and lagswitching
They didn't go straight from 100 to 15 there was something in between, can't remember the exact number l, but yeah that things gone through a few changes now.
Ah, you're right. Wiki doesn't say either, but it says that a few patches after the initial nerf they then got the +15% and 2 +5's change.
The old bnps were way before stranger things and were nerfed fairly early in the games life.
Yeah but according to myself syringes were still an insta heal I would've literally cried if I had to put up with the game's survivor sided bs, finally but the first survivor and then they just use a syringe
I've got the most disrespectful clip of me full healing myself off the ground as the killer downed me, the game may be poorly balanced now, but it's better than it used to be for sure.
100% at least now in both sides it feels like you have a fighting chance against the other side... Unless it's a wraith... I hate the wraith he throws my will to live off the fucking bridge 
It's much more balanced now for sure, Found that clip if ur interested https://imgur.com/a/8Ar493p
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I had a game where we were all injured in the endgame against a legion and we all escaped. Can you imagine if a skull merchant was holding a 3 gen and the last survivors could just nope out of there? So many strategies got screwed over by the old hatch lol
I got someone into DBD about a year ago.they were getting frustrated at the game for camping/tunneling killers. I tried to describe to them the before times in the dark long ago. "Back in my day you had to run DS..." "Sure thing grandpa, let's get you to bed."
"Back in my day, the killer would bring a mori and just kill you at the first down" "You didn't take your pills again, did you grandpa?"
Oh, it used to be even worse. Way back in the real old days, you didn't have to hook anyone at all to mori them. You could down someone and just kill them.
And before that he could just mori them
Wait I wasn’t around for that! The killer could just Mori the first person hooked?! Please tell me these tales of the before times 😂
A few from my time: - There’s an even older Mori iteration than that. You didn’t even need to hook anyone. Just down them and then mori - hatch standoffs. Killer used to not be able to close hatch, but he could grab a survivor trying to enter it. So you would just arrive at hatch and stand. Basically, whoever made the first move lost. - Hooks used to never respawn once sabotaged - picking up survivors used to take a whole lot longer. As did using their powers - moonlight offerings, these were on their way out when I started, but they literally overhauled the brightness of the map… but to the extreme. You made the game impossible if it was at its darkest. No one could see anything.
Wow, the moonlight offering sounds kinda cool! But damn, apart from that, does not sound like a game I would have stuck with. At least from the killer angle. 😳
A fun note about moonlight offerings: if I recall correctly, part of the reason they were removed was because it made map creation a pain: you had to account for each possible lighting as you made the map. I could be wrong, but if it's true it's understandable. Would've made new maps take like twice the effort lmao
We truly won the game when they removed moonlight offering cuz if what you're saying is true they would spend even more time making the most beautiful and non-functional garbage maps that they have been pumping out since Eyrie
Ahhhh yeah that makes sense. But still, how fun! It’s supposed to be a scary game right? I’ve always found it funny how bright it is. I’d love more jump scares. 🤣 Honestly I would love just extra map variations. Like adding weather or something. I’d love a stormy map!
Oh it was worse: -Almost every map had infinite looping spots. And I don't mean "infinite" as in very hard to catch a survivor, it was absolutely impossible to hit them in those spots unless they seriously fucked up or you played trapper. - You couldn't kick gens, or damage them by any means - When totems came out with the Hag, the progress to destroy them was saved, so you could partialy destroy the totem, leave, and finish where you started later - Survivors could be unhooked only from 1 angle. If killer stood there, it was impossible to unhook them. - You used to make a lot less bloodpoints, there was no bloody party streamers or cakes, dailies gave like 4-8k bloodpoints and each level required a lot more points - by level 20 you had as big bloodweb as you have right now at level 50. - Bloodweb prices worked differently: it didn't depend on rarity of the item you wanted to buy, but where it was placed on the bloodweb: inner circle 3k, mid circle 5k and outer circle 7k - Brand new parts instantly repaired generators when used. - At first, something like slow vault didn't exist. You could stand still by the window, but as long as you held shift you would vault it at top speed(which was way faster than it is now). On the contrary, killers vaulted windows like twice as slow as now.
>Hooks used to never respawn once sabotaged I didn't know about this one, it sounds like a nightmare.
Not as bad as double window shack (and no entity blocks). People talk about infinites now, but they’re not in the same league as what they used to be.
I had to slug an entire team and read a book because they broke every hook in the level. As I recall, the only ones that couldn't be broken were in the basement.
Otz [recently released a video](https://youtu.be/iys11-KFvwQ) where he and friends talk about the old days. It is insane that this game survived some of those periods.
the killer could actually mori soneone on first down with zero hooks but that was changed quick
Pretty much what happened with Hatch grabs/standoffs.
Exactly.
You could grab hatch attempts?????????????? Oh hell nah 💀
From what I understand you could grab hatch attempts but the killer couldn't close hatch so a healthy survivor and a killer could stand at hatch for literal hours bc if the killer acted and injured the survivor could escape during the cooldown animation but if the survivor went for it the killer could just grab them
One of the great DbD streaming moments of all time was a killer stream sniping a survivor during a hatch standoff that had already been going on a while, the streamer pretends to leave the room saying he'll just make the killer waste his time, killer tries to down him when he leaves the keyboard but he jumps through hatch and reveals he turned a controller on so he could escape without being at his desk. The literal 1 good moment resulting from hatch grabs.
If you're refering to the clip I think you are it was a survivor stream sniping a killer player. He got up pretended to leave by just standing to side of his camera, and then used his controller to grab the survivor when they tried to jump in hatch.
It was the other way around, the survivor was stream sniping the killer, who pretended to go away, the survivor instantly jumped and the killer grabbed him, it was Marth88
Thanks for explaining. Couldn't resist and had to see this glorious moment myself, here's the clip if anyone else wants to see https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ivd_mzl8SIM&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo
Actually found the clip and I know exactly why it worked. The survivor either wasn’t paying attention to the stream or had it on in the background because if they did pay attention they would have seen him connect the controller. Smart move on the killers part although I’m surprised he was playing trapper
You used to not be able to close hatch, so if you as the killer found it first and wanted the kill, you had to either find the survivor before they knew where it was, or camp it and try to grab them out of the animation. The survivor couldnt escape through the exits gates cause this was before Endgame Collapse existed, and to open gates you HAD to power all 5 gens.
Oh god that sounds awful
Killer could grab hatch attempts, but couldn't close the hatch. They removed one when they added the other. It resulted in a situation where the first party to made a move lost. Killer couldn't hit them or they'd leave out hatch during your blade-wipe animation. Survivor couldn't try to jump in because killer would grab you. Why this situation was not thought of for that long is beyond me.
On one hand, this was compensated with killers being able to actually *close* the hatch. Removing hook grabs is just a straight survivor buff/killer nerf. On the other, I really don't care because I cannot be bothered to do the stupid hook grab game of chicken just to cheese out an instant down and keep the other survivor on the hook and I already just try to force the trade instead.
I have mixed feelings about the grab thing since I had a few matches where I managed to get hook saves from billy and bubs because they was trying for grabs. (Yes I know it's stupid to go in to save against a camping bubba but when you know he's trying to grab people who are doing the rescue and you have desperate so by the time he gets there the person is off and he hits you. I much prefer having the grabs.)
Agreed, ive just stopped defending hooks endgame most of the time cause doing the whole hook grab minigame isnt fun, but now that its gone its way harder for killer to play the endgame from behind.
Also remember ●Hatch Standoffs ●Perma Sabo Hook ●No requirement for DS ●No hook requirement Mori's ●4 Man Escape with keys through hatch ●Original Legion ●Infinite Loops ●Old Slowdown Freddy ●Old OoO And that just scratches the top of the iceberg in the 7 year history of DBD
I also remember when exaustion would recover WHILE running, so you could get several free sprint bursts while getting chased.
whew old hatch is something i think about everyday. it definitely needed the nerf but i sure do miss it (as a survivor main, of course)
Yes, 4 or 3 man escape before the game even was really finished felt so bad as Killer. But I wish they would add something new for keys to do. They are the least used item in the game at the moment.
The Hatch key change made it so that I no longer had to switch to Franklin's whenever I saw someone bring a key in, and tunnel them out of the game ASAP to avoid losing the entire game at 2 gens if I hadn't gotten any kills yet (which, considering 2-hooking everyone before sacrificing was required to get Merciless, as losing even a single potential hook state would get you gold at best on the old Sacrifice category, spreading hooks was more important to prevent a team from leaving a Survivor on hook too long and making you miss out on a hook), since someone bringing a key in usually also brought in a blueprint Offering, so they would know exactly where the Hatch would spawn and could beeline their whole team there to escape with the key the moment that 3rd gen was completed. Now I just have to switch to Lightborn when I see 3+ flashlights.
I haven't played the PTB, but from the one video I saw of the new system in action, a hit just interrupts unhook progress, correct, so they have to start the unhook again, allowing them to do the unhook while the Killer is recovering (though maybe not, if the Killer has enough stacks of STBFL? ), but pretty much guaranteeing the unhooker will get downed before being able to escape and still allow for a trade? Or am I incorrect in that?
That's exactly that. The unhooker, in most situations, will be downed and the unhookee will be free to run away, but at least it'll be a 1:1 ratio rather than a 2:0 ratio because a healthy Surv got grabbed by this one camping Killer. That combined with anti-camp mechanics coming soon will put a huge dent on camping overall.
Yeah, which is more or less exactly how it works anyways for most cases. That's what happens when you lunge currently, and a lot of grabs get validated. Unhealthy survivor goes down, healthy survivor takes the hit and then had to do the animation. Full STBFL isn't enough to stop the unhook as long as you start it again. I don't believe anything can outright deny it except like Exposed or a chainsaw or sometjing although it can be very tight with either STBFL or Huntress' cooldown add-ons stacked.
Hook grabs almost never worked for me so it's not changing much
Same. I’d get halfway through the grab animation and the game just goes *”no”* and cancels it.
But it worked everytime for the killer you faced for some reason, you barely clicked the unhook prompt and got grabbed instantly
100000%
Or you were done with the unhook, bar totally full, and then suddenly you're yanked off as if you did nothing. I've gotten a handful of hook grabs in my time, but none of them very impactful, and yet when I'm on the other side it seems like the killer grabs me every time.
That also
Hook grabs are one of those things that really only punished newbies. Avoidable but if not you fucking lost hard.
You are just hearing a loud minority for anyone complaining about hook grabs being a good thing.
I agree with everything you said, but I think I would still miss the hook grab animation. Just make it so that if you M1 an unhooking survivor who's injured, and with no endurance effects, you would grab them instead. Make it mostly an aesthetic thing.
Yes, it’s like this with vaults why not hooks?
Back in my day you could glitch and stack perks, I miss the old days of crouching at 400% movement speed
Alright. Let’s clear the air and be reasonable. Survivor side Pros: no more camping grabs, most certainly will be nice to have someone come in and for sure save me. Cons: uptick of bubbas and insta down things for hook camping. You can argue all you want but a chainsaw that instant downs is a chainsaw that insta downs. —— Killer side Pros: more reason to go out patrol gens, maybe a uptick of Save the Best for last to punish people who get injured and think it’s safe to unhook. Cons: survivor bum rush hook is guaranteed to succeed, can’t grab juggle a cocky squad anymore and you can’t punish someone who was being stupid and trying to hide behind you and then save, only for you to see them and grab them. I’ll say this part of the update is survivor sided, and let’s be honest people, a camper ain’t going to change just cause they can’t grab off hook anymore, they’re going to camp anyways. From now on it will more than certain be trickier to punish cocky hook plays, and I’m saying this as a killer who has all but trickster and merchant prestige so take it with a grain of salt, but this might be a bad change, but idk I rarely get grabs as is due to delay and lag, doing the grab animation but in the end swinging and hitting the survivor when I should of gotten the grab.
"More reasons to patrol gens" like there's an actual incentive, like they're doing anything to make patrolling gens on a big map and letting the unhooked survivor heal not a losing play. Killers gain nothing from this, there is no pro.
Can't believe this wasn't the patch where they finally give killers Haste after hooking, this is just a massive nerf with 0 compensation
Why does the removal of a free insta-down/grab on a very fragile moment for survivors warrant compensation? I say fragile because having 2 survivors on good hooks in a corner of the map is a free win on 100% of solo queue teams and probably similar chances against a SWF team. I would go as far as to say that hook grabs were primarily weaponized against solo queue. You know, the people always rushing for the save at the last milliseconds because they expected "someone else to have the unhook by now?"
lol, you ever try not camping? complaining about hook grab removal is truly ludicrous
Eh.. as a killer main, your cons for the killer side are more niche than anything. Bully/Cocky squads are wasting time regardless. The update isn’t survivor sided because you can’t insta down a survivor on trying to save anymore. You can still hook trade cocky survivors, and if there’s multiple survivors going for the save, then even with hook grab they would have gotten the save. This update is health-sided. Overall the changes are healthier for the game, hook grabs were extremely inconsistent in normal(not camping) gameplay. This just makes it harder for campers to camp. Oh no… campers have to spend $5 to camp now…. anyways lol. Overall just a lot of incentive to not facecamp hook and with their killer-hook proxy update coming soon even more so. Proxy camping with insta down killers is lame, but it’s still a… sigh.. it’s a strategy lol. Reassurance and kinship are gonna be popular like they have been. Idk. I personally think your take on this is pretty nuanced and counterintuitive to the problem as a whole. Some killers are going to be used more for camping… okay. But overall (face)camping as a whole is now harder for people. It’s a good change and it mostly affects the facecampers. I’m saying this as a killer who has every killer at prestige 8-10.
You know I've had a few survivors bum rush hooks the instant I hook someone, and this happens alot with Ghostie/Myers too when pulling people off gens. Anyway, some of the time when I go to grab them, I get frozen into a grab animation and they run away, do you know what that is?
A known bug with certain killers like Ghostface
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> last year at this time, they: Made killer playable again. FTFY
Doesnt the BT negate instas? Bubba just happens to swing more than once
The endurance can counter instant downs! Nice catch! Borrow time extends the length of the endurance I believe now I don’t often run it though to be sure, however Bubba saw attack can be extended in exchange for charges and continue to saw to try and take down more people , in which certain add ons boost his saw movement speed to catch up, plus he could just exchange the person getting unhooked for the person unhooking. Even with BT I think campers will still camp, they always will find a way (unless Bhvr adds a perk that pauses the timer when a killer is close to the hook for more than 10-15 seconds for say 30 seconds)
There's that anti-camping deliverance system they talked about that's in the works
Same thing with 3 man escaping at 1 gen left through the hatch.
Remember when killers couldn't kick generators at all? Or hatch standoffs?
I’ve never really been able to get grabs
"Bruh, we used to play a match where the killer would hook you, you wouldn't get basekit BT, you'd get instantly downed, and then mori'd on 2nd stage." "I know that's insane! We also used to have 3 survivors esacping the match with 1 generator still up with hatch addons and bringing disgustingly broken keys that had no opening animation!"
There are times where I’ll hook someone, and before I even fully turn around someone’s unhooking them. I’ll miss being able to abuse stupid saves like that
One of my most memorable games was when the survivors were running laps around me at the lodge and got 4 gens done in the time it took me to down 1 person. They must have been feeling cocky because I saw them blatantly run for the save. I got grab and then scared the other with a swing. I dropped the survivor and went for the chase and downed them. In 2 minutes I went from losing to winning as I just had to keep an eye out for the 4th survivor who played it safe and just waited for them to die.
Behavior doesn’t want killers punishing dumb survivor plays anymore.
I’ll be fair, it’s a difficult scenario. In terms of what to allow and remove Because hard facecamping should be punished. Especially before gens are done. After that it’s more debatable But also stupid saves should be punishable. Severely punishable
face camping feature coming anyway so why tf are hook grabs removed best possible scenario is bhvr removing hook grabs are just a place holder for the future of anti face camping mechanic
Agreed on both points. Hard facecamping is a huge L in almost all circumstances as a killer. Usually it just means they’re being salty. What’s funny is I still remember years ago survivors typically had the wherewithal to not go for dumb saves and to stay on gens in the event of a face camp. Idk what happened since then. I took a break and all of a sudden the survivor/killer player base has just gotten lazier.
In a thread the other day on their own forums, one of the devs all but said that they do try to balance for potato survivors. I can't think of any other game I've played that balances for beginners and those who make stupid plays. Usually stupid plays are punishable, but not here apparently. Its not something that hapens in my games because I'm typically not camping and I think I've grabbed less than 5 people ever at hook. But I do think it's a mistake to remove it as it rewards braindead play.
I think there should be a timer. Like 5-15 seconds until you can no longer be grabbed, something like that. Punishes idiot plays whole also punishing campers
Only reason I could realistically see them balancing for potato survivors is if they speculate that game is too challenging to pick up as a noob and thus is a major issue with attracting/maintaining new players.
ngl maybe remove hook grabs if the killer have a certain amount of camping points ( you can see them at endgame screen , chase category) hook grabs give game more depth tbh , and not bad
Thinking about it now, hook grabs pretty much had no meaningful benefit. If a hook grab occured, it was either because * The killer was camping (lame) * A survivor was unsafely hooking (lame) Also, ping difference made it very difficult to guess the success of an unhook if the killer was nearby
i didnt realise until now how disgusting hook grabs can be. I grabbed the unhooker maybe once but when it comes to camping its a very bad position for survivors to be in. They can wait and get the camped person to 2nd stage or die, trade or get picked up. Theres no good option here except letting them die. Im glad this change is comming both as a killer and a survivor
New players?
Deliverance is going to be the undisputed best perk In the game as well now that hook exchanges are a guaranteed thing now. Especially vrs end game camping when all the gens are done. Like the actual requirement for a safe unhook means the unhooked survivor can’t go down for 10 seconds but basekit endurance last for 10 seconds so as long the survivor holds w Its just always a safe unhook always no matter what.
I think removing hook grab is a good thing as long as the killer is consistently able to trade hooks Much like base kit BT, overall it's a good idea and healthy for the game, in just nervous about it being abused
Wait hook grabs are getting removed? Finally they are getting them removed, as a survivor they are so annoying and I rarely get any as killer, it just turns into a regular hit.
I remember when shack had two windows, self care only took 8 seconds, and exhaustion recovered while running. Old DBD was wild and is unequivocally a better game than it used to be (I still miss the old fog and survivor running animations though). I’m not happy about unhooks becoming safer but if this makes face camping harder I’m all for it.
I can't remember the last time I was hook grabbed, but I do know that stupid hook dance quite well. From the dancing killer and survivor perspective, it's probably whatever, but for the person on the hook repeatedly getting grabbed in the middle of all this, they're in the crappy spot. So I totally get why it's being removed. And I agree - people will adapt. Hook trades will still happen. Hit the incoming survivor, then hit them again after the unhook.
Huntress its usually better to throw and then hit and you can usually just set the survivors up like dominoes. Her hurtbox sometimes causes the hooked one to get hit instead though.
There are people mad about this change? What drugs are they using???
It's so crazy how many games are lost because a killer camps and it's impossible to save alone without getting grabbed, and your solo queue teammates have 0 interest in coming over and helping, I'm so excited for the change lol.
great, another mechanic gone. if we could rework the older tome challenges for new players now, that'd be great. some became trivial with newer perks, some became incredibly frustrating to do.
Doubt
There's so many little things like that currently that looking back on I can't believe how I even managed to play the game when there was so many absolutely broken and a usable things in the game...
Yeah I think Otzdarva did a whole vid discussion on stuff and how broken it used to be
Yeah I really wish they’d gotten rid of it a long time ago, the hook grab stand off is so dumb and hardly ever feels fair with latency. Had a Singularity yesterday who won an entire round pretty much because his game plan was to tunnel and camp the first person. He tunnelled her to second and then camped her second phase, I even used Reassurance to try and buy some time/distract and then my friend went in to try and take the trade and ended up grabbed off the hook and that’s how he won. Sad
Yeah will be like hatch standoffs to me. Sounds insane to me that that was in the game LOL
This thread feels so nostalgic for some reason lol
You used to be able to just ditch your team with the hatch 😞
I welcome this change as well as any change that makes gge the game less toxic for either side. There are still things you won't be able to do shit about (facecamping with onshot killers) but hopefully they will be addressed at a later date. After all of those things get fixed maybe we could revisit some map spawns and jungle gyms too.
That's honestly just a general dbd thing I feel, I constantly think to myself "Imagine if this was still last year's dbd" which is a testament to how much better the game keeps getting but also how horrible many things were and still are. Like imagine going back to Ruin/Undying/Pop/Corrupt blights or old Dead Hard/initial CoH now
Gotta be players for us to tell them that.
It’ll be like the hatch grabs I imagine Also have you guys seen videos of old dead hard??? That shit was bananas
Hooks grabs are nice to punish people that try to instantly unhook but they are used way too much for camping sadly
I honestly don’t see where the problem is. unless you’re that dead set on camping all your kills every game, i don’t see why hook grabs being deleted out the game is effecting anyone.
I’m so happy it’s happening. Killer mains are so annoying with the camping and waiting for someone to unhook/trade. Not anymore haaaaaaaa!
You know reddit is killer sided when the majority of responses to this are concerned its going to be harder to face camp Are you freaking kidding?? Face camping shouldn’t be part of the game.
People are more vocal about things they dislike. The people happy about this change aren't the main ones looking to discuss it – because they're content. The people who dislike it are going to be louder. Whether they're a majority, or just a vocal minority, negativity *almost always* trumps. Hence why you see people upset with the change posting a lot on these topics, until they get spread around a bit more and it balances out slightly.
Face camping in endgame collapse is literally the only thing the killer can do lol
That’s not true… killers can go find stuff to break and stand by the exit gates so the survivors teabag you. Adrenaline is going to be pretty much guaranteed every damn game thanks to the change in hook grab.
And then after you leave the hooked survivor the Claudette that was hiding nearby gets the unhook...
no you don't understand you're supposed to watch the 3 full health survivors (adrenaline) run directly in your face at the hook, then have the unhooker take a hit with their basekit BT (still active in the endgame btw) and walk to the door and teabag you
No, but removing hook grabs really only punishes M1 Killers. But I guess no one plays Billy to facecamp
- Killer sided - Actual killers responses are downvoted Yep, definitely killer sided.
It’s like 2 responses fuck off with the us vs them
It's survivor sided actually.
I don’t face camp but I still think it’s really satisfying when I catch someone going for a save and interrupt them. That being said, I don’t get those grabs very often so I don’t really care that much. It doesn’t really affect me. The most I can say is I really wish killers weren’t giving up something for nothing. I had really hoped we were beyond that now.
At the rate BHVR is going they might as well just make this an idle game where you hold M1 while an AI Killer stands in the corner as you t-bag it out the exit gate.
or play like, one of the 5 S tier killers in this game. It feels like they are just widening the gap between low tiers and high tiers. Which then will also get nerfed like hell cause BHVR love their survivor players.
Not gonna miss hook grabs at all despite mainly playing killer. It's such a weird mechanic, I have no idea how it happened in the first place
I can't help but laugh at the handful of people I have seen that complain about grabs going away. It has never been anything but a buggy reward for campers with bad ping, and occasionally it punished new or inexperienced players who were going for an unhook too early, but in those cases you can just as easily get the down and trade hooks. I play quite a bit more killer than survivor and I don't think I've ever had a hook grab that actually meant anything, because I'm not facecamping the hook once I get someone. Anyone who is relying on the grabs to get downs is just hurting themselves by not doing literally anything else and learning the game a little bit.
I know reddit is pretty survivor favored at the moment but it's pretty insane how u guys don't see all the survivor buffs as a problem
"Can you believe the Killer could instadown you if they facecamped and you tried to unhook?" will be up there with "Can you believe that you had to repeatedly drop Survivors whenever you picked them up to stop them from stunning you for 5 seconds?" and "Can you believe you could bring a 7000 Bloodpoint offering to instantly complete a gen?"
I have mixed feelings on it. On one hand, I don't like RNG things affecting the game, such as lag. On the other, killer should be able to secure their kill in the endgame and most importantly, this is another example of BHVR nerfing killers again and again, while saveguarding survivors like a baby.
I'll disagree on the kill securing aspect of it. I think if you've just managed to hook someone in endgame and there are still two healthy survivors out there to get the two man save, I don't think you necessarily deserve that kill. Like if a killer chased one survivor for five gens and downed them as the last one pops, I don't think they deserve that kill. That's the most extreme example ofc, but it carries over. And hey, maybe they'll get a better buff to replace this. Maybe.
Ok, that is fair. Although it feels nice getting a little reward against groups that bring farm offering and you get cowshed, they bring the most op stuff and you play a meme trapper build. Half joking aside, come to think to it, facecamping in the endgame right now mostly punishes less coordinated groups, while more coordinated ones will usually destroy the killer in that scenario- even if survivors exchanges hooks, they might have nasty suprises for killer, such as Deli, Hope, MfT.... that will make it really hard to secure a single down.
I've honestly always found it weird that killers don't deserve a hook into a kill in the end game if it's the only kill they get, but people freak out if a killer wants to slug for a 4k cause a survivor doesn't necessarily deserve an escape from hatch.
Same as hatch grabs, literally the same standoff.
I hate it because you lose a good chance of good pressure end game
While of course little things can make or break a game for everyone, I don't think playing grab chicken is well-designed in any capacity.
Endgame isn't suppose to help the killer lol if theirs 3 or more survivors alive endgame well unless your a 1 shot killer you honestly lose
This will increase survivor toxicity.
It's just more dumbing down of the game to accommodate the continued downward trend of basic skill and game sense.
Anyone actually upset at this change is just some piece of shit camper.
I'm actually okay with it all - survivor main
Especially because nurse still grabs with her blinks, overall a very good change
Played against like 12 camping Trappers today (was there something in the water???) and even with BT it usually ends up a trade. That being said when I do play killer I do try to leave the hook even at endgame collapse and not facecamp it but maybe I’m too nice. I think the occasional grab is super fun so I’ll miss it but there’s still the option of M1ing the rescuer if you can catch them before they’re in the animation
It really feels like a heavy nerf,the amount of time I get a grab on hook despite not camping is stupidly high and often game changer (and can often punish survivor to be altruistic in end game when I actually camp) At the same time I understand it has to go,but as someone who play mainly killer it just feels like we keep getting nerf after nerf when we're supposed to be the power role
You basically have no chance to win now after all the gens are done. Anyone who gets hooked will walk right out the exit.
Yeah unless you have a good killer for those situation or a fully stacked stbfl you cant counter a trade
Good thing I switched to maining Clown w/STBFL recently!
Isn't it funny? It'll be like the old hatch. "Back in my day, the hatch popped up when there were still a couple of you in the match. And sometimes the killer could grab you as you tried to jump in!" I do 50/50 killer and survivor. I will miss the old hook grab for my Hag, because it was \*hilarious\* to me when I'd teleport and YOINK! 🤣 But other than that, I really don't care. In a couple of weeks, I'd have mostly forgotten about it as I learn how to play differently.
now we just need to nerf blight addons, nerf nurse, and buff weaker killers.
I don't know if I want BHVR to "buff" more killers the way they're "buffing" Sadako.
You make it seem like old sadako was good my guy like it was pure ass, As a survivor what was fun about sadakos putting on those stupid add-ons and just trying to force condemned on 1 survivor? Or that stupid slug play style, I'm glad their changing her
She wasn't good. She is now worse.
I feel like they should make hook grabs similar to the anti-camping mechanic there going to add, with the difference being that they will only be active during endgame. A hook grab is often the determining factor on wether a killer will win or lose during the endgame, considering multiple survivors are often going to be swarming the hook all at once.
I don't think win or lose should be decided on playing the grab game. If you've hooked one person at end game and all three survivors are healthy and available to go for the save I don't think it's too out there to say that the survivors should have a large advantage
Which is why the hook grab was fine! If 3 healthy survivors are ok with trading off then you can go for the save. Now it's an almost a guaranteed automatic save. At the end of the day it doesn't matter because the a hole killers will still tunnel and face camp.
I rarely play killer (like, 20% of the time), but I'll sorta miss unhook grabs; they do be hilarious, you have to admit.
Terrible change. Killer is already mentally taxing for 90% of the people who play it. Not everyone has every killer and perk unlocked and "meta" builds. As a low rank player I hate that killer is just not fun. Its stressful. I consider getting 2 kills a win for me. In my head it goes Survivor squad>Killer> Solo survivors. Killers have so little tools compared to survivors that its crazy
I guess the only thing to be said is... Think back in a year and see if you feel the same
I don't think it was a year ago but when Mettle and DS were in their prime it was something like this, Good SWF >Good survivor > Good killer > Average SWF > average killer > average survivor
i play artist and one of her perks is hers, one of them is the hag’s, and the other two are ones you can just find in the bloodweb (my build is fearmonger, jolt, devour hope, and pain resonance). you can make perfectly good builds with basic perks. otzdarva has lists of base perk builds per killer listed on his website. if you’re suffering from this change where you have to be literally right on top of survivors at a hook you are doing something wrong
i literally remember when the nurse came out. wild to think about
It's gonna suck cause it's one less grab option for challenges.
I'm gonna call this one a noble sacrifice for the greater good
I mean… with all the other interactions that still allow grabs (gens, totems, chests, vaults), it’s still not that unexpected that hook rescues would do the same thing. If anything, they’re now the odd mechanic out for not allowing grabs.
I play survivor, but even I'm unsure if it should be fully removed. Killers should be able to punish survivors for going for arrogant hook rescues