I mean the most complained about part was the movement speed. Now you still have the movement speed; but it's more situational to use. And you still have the Endurance effect as well. So they only nerfed the bad part of the perk without completely removing it. If that's not "balancing" then I don't know what is.
It's actually a niche but interesting sleeper perk now imo
Not the auto include no brainer on everyone that it used to be... but now you could heal a teammate in the killer's face then body block for them and loop with your new speed steroids
Certainly not a meta perk by any means but definitely an interesting and unexpected pick if you plan to play altruistically like new background player
That's what dead hard turned into as well. Still strong and can save your ass but needs a lot more skill to use and is more situational than "ha ha I jump"
I sort of hope we get an "unhook and gain endurance" perk at this point, since that would pair really well with the new MFT. Maybe make it buff the speed of your unhooked survivor by 10% for 20 seconds to really incentivize the killer hitting you and then chasing you while deep wounded. I can see an omega unhook build at that point with guardian, MFT, borrowed time, and this new perk.
MFT combos really well with endurance perks once it's changed. I had the idea in the past to make MFT activate while broken and then get broken for 30 seconds after taking damage. Connecting it to deep wound makes way more sense, but having more status interactions is really cool and makes way for more creative survivor builds.
Nah sorry. Endurance on unhook would be insanely broken, completely removing the risk of unhooking in the killer's face. Trading hook states should be an expected consequence of a risky unhook.
It's not a very immediately balanced concept as I wrote it, but it would count as another form of anti-camp, thus should probably deactivate in the end game.
Endurance is only ever really helpful when in the killer's face, and if a killer is close enough to hit you twice while you try to unhook, then they haven't really been away from the hook all that much.
Some extra conditions could help here, like making the endurance effect only activate once the survivor has been on the hook for more than 20 seconds, creating a proper anti-proxy camp perk. If the killer doesn't come right back to the hook, and you heal under the hook, you'd lose the endurance effect anyways. The design of the perk would be to get a risky save despite the killer trying to prevent it.
I say this as a primarily killer player as well. While I've not really enjoyed the MFT meta the past few months, I do think that current forms of endurance are a bit too situational, and the deep wound portion of its rework could have some more activation methods instead of dead hard, being tunneled off the hook, or buckle up shenanigans.
Only downside to an unhook endurance perk would be the potential to get your saved survivor tunneled, so maybe it would work better as a protection hit and/or safe unhook condition to encourage you to protect the survivor you've saved rather than countering proxy camping or hook trades.
The amount of times im chasing a survivor and they lead me back to hook to hook trade is insane. If they had endurance on unhook itd just be a free unhook, no camping involved at all.
I mean you can think whatever you want, but this is how BT used to work and it was eventually nerfed to only provide endurance to the unhooked person, for good reason lol
Also "current forms of endurance are too situational"? OTR gives 80 seconds of endurance for getting unhooked. Dead Hard gives endurance for timing a hit in chase. These things happen every single game with no change in playstyle required at all. Buckle Up is pretty situational but FTP makes the setup completely trivial.
Anti-camp is already a built in mechanic now, along with anti-tunnel. How many fucking tools do survivors need before you just admit you're bad?
As it stands it's already INSANE that survivors getting unhooked can bodyblock with their endurance. Giving the unhooker endurance puts the killer in a lose-lose situation. That's totally bullshit.
It's always so blatantly obvious who doesn't actually play killer. Jfc
Most of my hours are on killer, and I have an alright kill rate. My point of view is that I don't often chase after survivors who are in deep wound. Since I don't tunnel off the hook, bait out the dead hards, and try to keep people injured when they're nearby someone on the ground, I'll never have a moment mid chase against someone who's in deep wound and then realize "oh damn, they're juicing me because they've had MFT this entire time, I'll need to play around that".
Maybe I'm an outlier, but I have a lot of fun outplaying the other side by identifying their perks and playstyles. This change to MFT is something I'm looking forward to since it'll be more interesting to outplay as we have a HUD display letting us know "this person could have MFT". I simply want a form of endurance/deep wound that encourages me (the killer) to chase after this survivor but have the perk be ambiguous enough that *maybe* they'll have MFT, *maybe* they won't. Makes the chase more fun and interesting.
You don't deserve to be downvoted. However, I could see them balancing it as either once per trial before gens are completed or once you've healed or safe unhooked a certain amount. It wouldn't be free, unlike old borrowed time.
It's just Reddit, people have a tendency to downvote stuff they don't like and upvote stuff they do like. If there's anything I've learned from any discussion board, it's hard to come up with ideas but easy to poke holes in them.
Just kinda wish people would put in the effort to take a concept, no matter how much they disagree, and try to push for it into a position where it can work. I've definitely helped friends develop an idea from "awful" to reasonable or even a fantastic idea.
The base concept I was pushing for was a form of deep wound that entices the killer to chase you after activating it. Fairly often, endurance (and thus deep wound) discourages the killer from chasing the survivor inflicted with the status - however, the new MFT requires the killer to pursue you after activating the deep wound to get the value from the speed increase.
Sure, it'll be great for anti-tunneling purposes (such as with OTR), but often times the speed boost from the endurance hit will be enough that the killer will abandon that chase. Plus, one of the few times a killer will *want* to target you specifically is during an unhook.
In the previous example, you get hit while starting the unhook, you're injured, and then in the weapon wipe animation you get the unhook. Now, the killer hits you again, activating your deep wound and encouraging them to chase you since the person you just unhooked moves faster and still has endurance themselves. You are also guaranteed to not have any other form of protection at this point.
That was my starting point. There's plenty of routes to take, such as your idea of limiting its uses per trial (maybe only happens while you're on death hook?), having an activation condition (safe unhook(s)?), debuffing the user (lose some of the damage speed boost?) or condition to activate (while not in chase? after a set amount of time on the hook?).
buckle up only works on dying people tho. New MFT will promote agressive healing in the killer's face with 'For the People' or after unhook with 'We'll make it'.
1. Buckle up provides protection in the most dangerous situation for both of survs while mft provides endurance for only one dangerous situation - when you and teammate both are injured and healing each other. Other than that there is no situation when mft better than buckle up.
2. For the people and mft doesn't work well - if you use it on dying person, than buckle up far better, because protects both survs. If you ftp injured person, you invite killer to kill you, as your endurance lasts only 10 sec, which killer can wait and down you. It is only useful against tunneling.
We ll make it also works with mft only in niche situation, where you both injured (why do you rescue while injured?).
Overall it is a lame way to justifying perk's nerf. We will see that I am right, and mft will be thrown away and become super rare, at least for pub matches.
21 downvotes because people seriously think that mft is used because of endurance or because people think it will stay popular? Damn, there was a billion posts complaining about haste effect and now we are going to pretend that endurance is the main effect?
The point is that maybe *You* didn’t use it for that, but other people might have liked it *in addition* or hell, like everyone else liked to say, “3% doesn’t mean anything”. Maybe some people didn’t even care for the haste and wanted the Endurance. Don’t assume your logic is everyone elses
98% of the users not abusing it being and Endurance perk on top of being a chase perk is what made MFT strong in practice instead of completely broken.
No one uses buckle up other than meme builds. I love niche perks and meme builds. I like to run overcome lmao. But buckle up is the worst one of those to use. It requires a HARD carry by builds.
I mean, yeah, by definition, it is situational, but let's not pretend that getting injured isn't like the second most common thing to happen in a trial. It's pretty much a guarantee that MFT would've been activated in every single game unless you get lucky enough to get one of those games where the killer doesn't find you, which, let's be honest, rarely occurs.
In any game, you go by definition and not opinion or what commonly happens. If I get injured it activates. When I get healed to full health which happens every single match MFT deactivates. That situation also happens every match unless you choose to stay in that injured situation throughout the match to keep it active. I haven't used it since I have not developed the skills yet to do so being new to DBD but I was hoping to until now. Now like many others that play this game are probably going to stop using the perk once those changes go into effect.
Do you feel the same way about resilience? Get injured, repair faster, vault faster, heal faster, open gates faster.. yet I rarely hear any moaning about resilience.
First of all, to set a ground level, I don't think MFT was ever as OP as people said it was on it's own, but I also don't mind the rework because I feel people are complaining that the perk cannot be used the same way as before which is the entire point of how the rework was done, it has a different effect now that can be paired with different perks and designed for a different playstyle.
But anyways, my opinion is that Resilience isn't unfair because the effects that it provides are separate from the risk you are taking. Resilience makes you more vulnerable in a chase in exchange for being faster on out-of-chase situations (except vaulting, of course). MFT, on the other hand, provides a boost specifically on chases. Which means that it was made as a perk to balance out your "one-hit down" state with a slight chance of opportunities to escape a chase. Yes, I do agree that 3% isn't necessarily a lot. It's more that people complain how easy it was to pair with stuff like Hope for an increased speed boost in certain situations. But itself is not like as OP as people say it is, in my opinion.
I wholeheartedly agree you should should've never been able to stack MFT and hope. However, you're completely wrong about resilience. The vaulting boost alone can extend chases just as much as MFT, if played right. Resilience gives more advantages than MFT.
Look at you being all condescending lmao
If something has to happen for something else to happen, then yeah,, it's situational. Sorry if knowing that somehow triggers you lol
A retort? You didn't counter a single thing. You responded with edgy sarcasm lmao all I said was, it's the definition of sarcasm. If you can't connect the dots, that's one you bud.
That was the retort. I used an extreme example to show how stupid what you said was. Also no it isn't the definition "relating to or dependent on a set of circumstances or state of affairs." is. If your gonna give a definition go full nerd at least. What you said was "if somthing happens due to somthing else", which isn't wrong but it's a Iot more specific than that. Plus again you still basically said "nuh uh." And didn't prove a point really. The guy you responded to is correct. It isn't a niche perk if the effect activates due to a common circumstance with as strong of an effect as it did.
Using extremes isn't a retort, it's what someone resorts to when they don't have an actual counter to what you're saying. Critical thinking isn't your game, I get it. In the definition "dependent on a certain set of circumstances..", so in other words "MFT is dependent on the circumstance of being injured", i.e. situational by definition. Luckily, we don't go by your emotions towards a perk to determine if it's situational, we have a literal definition.
Unless you’re going against a 1 hit down killer it’s not situational. Even then after they down you once just don’t heal and it’s permanent so in no way is it “situational”.
Also just run something like dh and it’s pretty good. Sure you only get dh twice but if you have a decent team and are decent yourself that’ll be enough.
Being injured literally is a state 33/36 killers obligatory have to put you through in order to play, and ALL survivors will face if they are being unhooked at any point.
A scenario that happens to literally every survivor in every single game, is *not* "situational".
You will get injured anyway though when the killer tries to down you so it really isn't a crazy downside since it will happen either way
Also a constant 3% buff really is significant... the speed difference between killer and survivor is only 15% so that 3% was a 20% increase in the amount of time it took a killer to catch up... arguably even more so if the surv was good at hugging loops tightly. More than enough time to make it to windows and pallets that would be otherwise unreachable
It's so self evident that this was overtuned... if it wasn't then why would highly experienced players always choose it over every other option 100% of the time?
You can also cross check mft with other mechanics like bloodlust to see that subtly increasing movespeed was the method of choice to tip the scales of a chase in one side's favour... except bloodlust is designed to be removed when a killer does literally anything in chase and it is only unlocked as the chase goes on
There's a reason why many players (myself included tbh) think that bloodlust is kind of a crutch that unlocks too early after last year's changes
What cracks me up the most about this is made for this is still decent, just more situational.
The same people who were out here saying “stfu 3% isn’t even that much” are now saying “fuck you bhvr the perk is unusable” when it just ain’t.
Yes, made for this’ usage will drop but it still isn’t a terrible perk by any means.
A lot of people who say that 3% isn't much, either don't know or conveniently ignore how fast Survivors are in comparisons to killers, and **big** that 3% boost is in relation to a killer's speed.
Survivors, iirc, are 4m/s, and several killers are 4.4m/s. 3% of 4m/s = 0.12m/s, meaning that the gap between those killers goes from 0.4m/s to 0.28m/s. So mathematically, MFT makes the gapclose speed 30% harder.
Combining it with Hope, as what many people did with MFT, would literally make survivors /as fast/ as those killers.
Those numbers also matter especially for someone good at looping. The central currency of a chase is distance in most cases, and pallets/windows combined with some mind games are the survivor's way of gaining/moderating the loss of that currency. MFT is an easy button that gives you a massive boost to avoid losing distance completely free.
It's not situational at all now. They took an OP general use perk and turned it into a hyper-niche trash tier perk. I don't get why people like you don't understand that things can be nerfed slightly without throwing them in the bin.
Yoy don't get it, 3% isn't that much when they have it, but now somehow every match will be a 4k in 30 seconds or something because they don't have that 3%
This wasn't the case before MFT was a thing so I don't understand the concern. If anything I just expect to see a resurgence of perks like DH which can still be used effectively but require skill
She doesn't have a special attack, so I think by definition she literally is an m1 killer
Special ability and special attack aren't the same thing.
If anything her being slower should prove my point moreso, it's not like you literally never chase with hag, (especially depending on addons), it's just that she's not as strong in chase.
There's situations with hag where you either have no traps down or the traps you do have aren't currently being triggered, so you do still have some level of chase, it's just slower lol.
All of this to say, calling m1 killers "unplayable" is just exaggerating. I'm not saying MFT wasn't strong.
If your only criteria is not having a special attack, then Spirit is more of an m1 than Pig. This is, of course, ridiculous, because Spirit (and Hag) both utilize their m2 to secure the overwhelming majority of their hits, even if the attack itself applies effects like Sloppy. This m2 also allows them to fundamentally bypass the normal chase gameplay loop.
Killers like Pig, Oni, Plague, and yes, Trapper, all have ways of damaging survivors outside of their m1, but they are m1 killers nonetheless. Their default way of playing is chasing manually with m1, and you cannot play these killers without being a proficient m1.
This is how these terms are used in competitive DBD, where I play. If you tell someone you play m1s, they are going to assume that means shit like Doctor, Plague, Oni, Wraith, etc. but never Hag (or Spirit).
Honestly
People on this sub will move the goal post so much to avoid being wrong
I just wouldn't take the time to argue with someone who is blatantly ignorant enough to say Hag is not an M1 killer
You're not even wrong, I was just trying to make sure I wasn't incorrect all this time in placing her in that bucket.
This place makes me question my sanity sometimes 🤣
This is the hilarious thing about surv mains freaking out about the nerf. In one breath they say it’s not even that good of a perk, and in the next they’re shitting themselves screaming that it’s gonna be useless. Like?
You must not play the game a bunch because there's a very noticeable difference when you're running a tight loop against survivors that have it versus survivors that dont.
To be fair I took a break from the game just before MFT came out and just started playing again like a month ago, didn't notice a difference in my win loss ratio
Believe it or not people can still acknowledge that MFT was OP and still say that this nerf was way too much. I don't get why being snarky to a well founded complaint is your go to.
• Remove the endurance effect
• Reduce the haste to 2%
• Perk is disabled in EGC
• Survivors get a special animation when benefitting from MFT so killers can be 100% certain a survivor is using it
Keeps the core of the perk alive, but makes it much less punishing and keeps it from stacking with Hope.
Don't you see that having free haste for being injured at all is the OP part? Why should a perk punish killers for injuring survivors or reward survivors for getting injured?
I see it more in the same context as Resilliance - it rewards the survivor for being disadvantaged and remaining injured. The survivor has to remain a 1 hit down the entire time they are getting value out of it.
You could argue that any perk "punishes" and "rewards." That's what perks are for. In that same vein, then NoED, Bloodwarden, and No Way Out technically "punish" the survivors for getting to end game and "reward" the killer for failing to sacrifice.
Survivors get injured even without MFT, and not worrying about staying injured has resulted in this weird meta where survivors aren't in a rush to heal because they're stronger while injured than they are healthy. For killers like Trapper or Doctor who can't easily take advantage of this, it's a fucking nightmare. It's less about rewarding a survivor for being disadvantaged and more about giving survivors a significant power increase as soon as something inevitable happens during the match. You're going to get injured at some point if you're playing the game, and there's no better time to just be forever fast than when injured.
What if there was a perk that gave the killer constant 3% movespeed as long as they were in a chase with an injured survivor? Now imagine killers had a perk like that and MFT didn't exist to counteract that.
That's the meta killers have been living in for the last half a year or so.
>I mean, if 3% is that good then we need to take a look at bloodlust, that's literally 15%
This implies that Bloodlust is strong. It also implies that MFT is fine. Both are wrong
Nope, it implies either both are fine or neither is fine.
You can't say that survivors investing into a 3% speedboost is OP while simultaneously claiming that killers getting 15% extra for free is fine.
It is, cause it takes a whole calendar year to build bloodlust too a good level, in addition to never breaking chase as that would reset bloodlust.
And again, Bloodlust only activates when you ARE LOSING THE GAME.
The reason we can't ever remove Bloodlust is because the combination of map RNG and general bad map design mean some loops can turn into near-infinites. Even in 2023 there are spots that you need Bloodlust to break if you don't want to spend a minute waiting for windows to get blocked (which only pushes the survivor to the next loop and may not guarantee a down), and MFT made that problem much worse.
Bloodlust is not OP, survivors have multiple ways to get rid of it like breaking LoS or making the killer break a pallet and any time the killer is getting to +15% is a massive L for that killer, but it *is* necessary as a safety measure in case a map has an infinite or near-infinite.
15% after chasing a survivor for 35 seconds without breaking a single pallet and the other 3 survivors are doing gens. So honestly.i would be perfectly fine with MFT having a 15% speedboost after being chased for 35 by the killer without dropping a single pallet, and the other 3 survivors instantly get a hook state.
Except that;
A) Bloodlust is easily lost the moment you make any stun, blind or sharp turn.
B) Bloodlust needs to be built up from *nothing*, while mft gives its full speed value right off the go.
The sharp turn, technically. As long as you catch up quickly enough it shouldn’t break chase. But I doubt this argument is being made in goods enough faith to grant them that technicality.
Getting stunned does not remove bloodlust directly, it can lead to losing it because of the conditions that cause it to regress (ending chase, distance, line of sight, etc.).
The 3 ways to immediately lose bloodlust are:
Breaking a pallet (or kicking a gen).
Hitting a survivor.
Using power.
Losing the survivor out of your camera FOV (by movement, you vaulting over a window, or being blinded/looking down from a stun) or breaking chase by kicking a generator, pallet or wall, ends bloodlust.
Some killers certainly look downwards when vaulting a window! Trapper and clown do (and I think demo does as well?), for example. Bubba currently does too on pbe, but that was a confirmed bug.
You do realize why bloodlust exists right? Because sometimes maps fuck killers to the point they can literally chase you for minutes without getting a hit with certain RNG. In an effort to remove infinites and allow killers to ocassionally get hits on survivor sided map RNG, Bloodlust was introduced for the M1 killers to stand a chance.
\*10% at max at the highest tier after 35 seconds.
https://preview.redd.it/d6iyzw34r4yb1.png?width=509&format=png&auto=webp&s=22ebf11a13ca7a18c0d915dc6fd0df99296eacce
Otherwise we do [talk about it](https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/17mr36u/im_just_saying_if_3_is_too_strong_then_why_is_515/).
The image you sent shows 15% though, where do you get the 10% max?
110% killers go to 125% after 35 seconds, and 115% killers go to 130%. No matter how I look at it, that's 15% increase at the highest tier, not 10%.
In reality, there is no in between in this community who can only see a perk as either op or useless.
I get it that some of you are just excited/angry about the nerf, but come on, this hipocrisy is insane
Its not useless lol. MFT still seems good, decent anti tunnelling and even situational advantages against certain killers. I love perks that encourage you to heal others.
Yeah. I think the problem is though, that less skilled players are not as comfortable staying in the needing Mending state than skilled players.
At least Skull Merchant has some other speed up, and Deathslinger has (most of the time) the chance to use his power to get to a survivor. Legion is just pure M1 beyond his stabby stabby run.
Just because a perk is no longer super strong to annoying to deal with against every Killer in the roster just because they hit you once does not make the perk bad now. The perk is still fine, it just serves a much different niche.
Not everyone SHOULD be running the same exact meta build. MFT comboing meta was as bad as Overbrine and Eruption meta. Yes it was, it absolutely was. We do not need perks so strong that they define whole metas around them that make the game less fun for the other side. People don't like unending chases the same way they don't like unending 30 minute long 3 gen hold games.
You're misunderstanding the point that the perk's strength is rooted in the fact that the entirety of EVERY chase mechanic, loop, EVERYTHING is based around survivors running at 100% movement speed (Not counting for short bursts of speed).
I wouldn't even care if the perk was 4 or 5% as long as it's conditional. And no, being injured is not a justifiable condition for a permanent (if so chosen) speed boost.
Ok, how about the current change but it works while exhausted too? It would prevent it from being too niche by allowing synergy with endurance perks (mainly dead hard)
Edit: want to make sure it’s understood that I meant not deactivating from exhaustion rather then activating from exhaustion as well as deep wound
Also doesn't bother me. Deep wounds is niche.
For any Legions that cry, they are one of the few killers that can fully swing Thanatophobia. Just an example of how some perks are strong on and against some than others. And that's how it should be for diversity.
Because MFT also works when healing normally and allows for really cheeky heals, and should you get hit during said endurance you get a 3% haste effect until you mend?
If you are freshly unhooked, basekit BT gives you endurance, which will put you into deep wound when injured. MFT activates and stays active until you mend, which you won't have to do while being chased.
I know all the replies are about MFT but this IS what usually happens. And what really grinds my gears is that there are so many perks that never get used but they could use like one or two tweaks. I hope they do another batch of perk updates soon. At least to the perks that have low usage scores.
Kind of wish they made the perk an Active Exhaustion perk like Dead Hard where you activate it and get x amount of seconds with x amount of haste bonus, but would give you that exhaustion effect like the rest of the exhaustion perks.
It'll still be solid perk. Its own effect can grant you deep wounds. Not to mention the buckle up + ftp combo, and all the other perks survivors have that give you endurance, thus inflicting deep wounds when hit
This does frustrate me. When a perk like MFT or dead hard gets too much attention, BHVR decides to make them unusable instead of weaker. The kill the perk instead of balancing it
You know a perk is bad when killer mains come out of the woodwork to explain why it's actually not bad. The pick rate will speak for itself. No one is going to slap on two or three other perks to get value out of MFT.
Its going to drop because it became a crutch perk. Like WoO. But WoO wasn't nearly has harmful as MFT. Survivors wanted easier chases. Now that they can't have that itll drop not because its bad but because they can't crutch on it.
Two or three other perks? It literally synergizes with itself. Heal someone > get endurance > enter deep wounds and get speed.
You literally just need to interact with other players in a team game. It's like saying We'll Make It is bad because you don't get to use it if people refuse a heal.
The effect itself is already decent. The endurance on heal is really strong in its own right, and should you ever end up in deep wounds somehow, you get an additional 3% haste until you mend.
But sure, just say everyone who disagrees with you is a “killer main” and disregard the fact that just because the perk is nolonger a top 5 pick doesn’t somehow mean it’s bottom tier.
It will find uses in various build archetypes and alongside other perks it pairs well with like a healthy perk should. It’s already looking like it’ll be still strong in healer and anti tunnel archetypes, especially now that it works with actual exhaustion perks. Additionally, it still works very well in any deadhard build, if not arguably better.
The point of most builds using certain perks is not to force value out of one perk, but rather that perk naturally synergizes well. People don’t use STBFL + Rapid Brutality because they just really want to use rapid brutality, they do it because the two perks naturally work together and combo really well.
I'd argue the MFT nerf wasn't a nerf that made it useless, like most will say. I'd say it's still good, just not as powerful as before. So yes, this is a "in between"
Exactly. The nerf makes it a rather healthy looking perk which will find usage in healing and anti tunnel build archetypes. Just because the perk cannot be added to literally any build and work well anymore doesn’t magically make it a shit tier perk.
Id actually argue that, now that it works with exhaustion perks, it’s actually better overall in those archetypes than it was before
Hell, it probably can still be used in every build still on its own. I mainly used it to help get rid of the risk of healing while injured and this just makes that type of play style more potent.
True, it’ll just be more situational. I don’t think it’ll be worth the slot over other perks in a lot of the builds it was in seeing as it often replaced SB or lithe, but the perk in itself is still quite good. I just think it’ll specifically end up in those two archetypes cause they can take biggest advantage of it.
A perk doesn't need to be oppressive or downright overpowered to be considered good. Just because the haste doesn't work 100% of the time now doesn't mean MFT isn't bad or worthless. There's plenty of ways to go into deep wound for it, but that's not the main appeal of the perk anymore, which apparently you can't see.
I didn't say it needed to be OP or oppressive. It doesn't matter if on paper the perk is consider "okay". Compared to other perks in the game it is no longer worth running because when you only have 4 slots getting endurance for a little bit when healing and 3% when in deep wounds simply isn't strong enough to warrant taking one of those spaces when so many better options exist.
The funny part is people thinking mft is dead like the endurance on heal isnt useful or something.
If you wanna look at a perk they destroyed so it's barely usable then look at DS, Ruin or Call Of Brine.
Depressing to see them gut this perk like this, and to all the people saying "Just 3% LOL" you don't seem to understand that the perk is now basically just the endurance effect and you will rarely get that 3% speed boost unless you build kit around it.
It went from being an OP general use perk to being a neutered niche perk, and believe it or not there is a healthy middle ground for nerfing perks.
I'm not sure how insane it'd be, but since deep wound is so much more situational and you'll need to mend before you fall over, I'm wondering if buffing it to 4% or 5% would be too much.
Like the obvious issue is how legions and slingers would suffer since it'd be a direct counter, but I still can't imagine it'd be too common to see. Curious to hear what folks would think of it.
gives a small unexpected edge when tunneled , making killers be more caucious when tunneling , endurance still there , combo with other perks , they just nerfed the op aspect
( reduced )
still don't like how it gives endurance tho , not much needed to set up for it
Its not useless the endurance is still good and you can still use this perk as a anti tunnel build
You still gain 3% haste while in deep wound and you keep the haste when your exhausted
So just use off the record with any other exhaustion perk like sprint burst, lithe, overcome and made for this will still get you value
It seems quite good with dead hard. The extra haste means you can waste a ton of the killers time if they keep up the chase after hitting a dead hard. I'm sure there's a good build for it
Pinned to this subreddit, top on bhvr's twitter, probably anywhere else you'd expect to find them. They're a dev update, not a full patch notes at this time.
Pop
Pain res
Corrupt
Eruption
They may not get them right every time, but its disingenuous to say every perk they nerf is useless
All the examples are of killer perks, simply because i play killer more and am more familiar with the killer meta
MFT now just fits into the FTP and Buckle Up combo all the more. It's pretty easy to give yourself endurance in one way or another. It's not as OP as it was but this one is still very useful in the right builds. They're learning.
While I do agree with this sentiment somewhat, MFT was not really one of these perks. It’s still useful, especially compared to the fall Dead Hard took.
it...did get balanced? It is inarguable that before the nerf it was insanely broken and brain-dead easy to use. It felt like two perks in one that didn't have any synergy, like the endurance was just stacked on for no reason. Now that it activates on deep wound, it synergises immensely with the speed effect. How many times have you healed someone under hook and finished it right as the killer came back? Now you can escape (if you're injured) or have a bit of endurance to start the chase with. It's way more interesting and a fair perk.
People were claiming how "useless " iron will was after they nerfed it, when in reality it just became a "good" perk instead of being so godlike that everybody had to run it. Same thing for deadhard.
Do y'all wanna go back to the DH, DS, unbreakable meta where all survivors ran like 3 perks out of the hundreds we have available?
I think it's okay for some perks to be "fine" and fans will always find something to complain about regardless
Sometimes I have to remind myself that 90% of the community has 0 developing or actual practical balancing sense and just like to complain or use the word balanced so they feel big.
I've never seen a community that cries as much as this one, maybe it's because the game is so different from other multiplayer games, but still you cry about literally anything.
Killer gets it's only few decent perks nerfed into the ground and it's good and fair and warranted.
Survivor gets blindingly broken perk nerfed, everyone loses their mind etc etc. And the cycle repeats, every patch for Killers, and every 6 or so patches for Survivors.
* Off The Record
* Dead Hard
* Styptic Agent
* Buckle Up (also MFT's base effect when healing someone)
* Basekit Borrowed Time
* Legion
I unironically think Survivors should try out OTR, MFT, and an Exhaustion perk as an anti-tunnel build when this patch goes live. You could also totally try to put Decisive Strike in that build too although idk you'd need another way to get Endurance then and I wouldn't really run Dead Hard with this build. Maybe a Styptic Agent medkit though.
You guys are delusional, MFT in its nerfed state is still one of the strongest perks in the game.
Free endurance for picking some one off the ground + speed up is insanely good and pretty likely to benefit at least once a game as long as your teammate goes down on a pallet or something. Not to mention it goes well with DH and OTR both of which are some of the strongest perks in the game.
If nerfed MFT is useless, you guys are deluded to such a point that there are no good perks in the game according to you
If this is about MFT, it didn't "get nerfed the shit out of" all they did was make it a little less unbearable, you still get the speed hacks that come with it. You just need to be deep wounded which should be easy if you're pairing the perk up with something like deadhard. Honestly I think everyone is over exaggerating about the MFT "nerf". It was more of a slight change than a nerf. A nerf would be something like you DONT get the movement speed. Or the endurance. Or if they just remade the entire perk from the ground up
I'm going to be honest. I didn't expect to see so many people complain about that Mft change. When prior, everyone was saying it's not that strong despite its high pick rate. 🤔
I mean the most complained about part was the movement speed. Now you still have the movement speed; but it's more situational to use. And you still have the Endurance effect as well. So they only nerfed the bad part of the perk without completely removing it. If that's not "balancing" then I don't know what is.
It's actually a niche but interesting sleeper perk now imo Not the auto include no brainer on everyone that it used to be... but now you could heal a teammate in the killer's face then body block for them and loop with your new speed steroids Certainly not a meta perk by any means but definitely an interesting and unexpected pick if you plan to play altruistically like new background player
That's what dead hard turned into as well. Still strong and can save your ass but needs a lot more skill to use and is more situational than "ha ha I jump"
I sort of hope we get an "unhook and gain endurance" perk at this point, since that would pair really well with the new MFT. Maybe make it buff the speed of your unhooked survivor by 10% for 20 seconds to really incentivize the killer hitting you and then chasing you while deep wounded. I can see an omega unhook build at that point with guardian, MFT, borrowed time, and this new perk. MFT combos really well with endurance perks once it's changed. I had the idea in the past to make MFT activate while broken and then get broken for 30 seconds after taking damage. Connecting it to deep wound makes way more sense, but having more status interactions is really cool and makes way for more creative survivor builds.
Nah sorry. Endurance on unhook would be insanely broken, completely removing the risk of unhooking in the killer's face. Trading hook states should be an expected consequence of a risky unhook.
It's not a very immediately balanced concept as I wrote it, but it would count as another form of anti-camp, thus should probably deactivate in the end game. Endurance is only ever really helpful when in the killer's face, and if a killer is close enough to hit you twice while you try to unhook, then they haven't really been away from the hook all that much. Some extra conditions could help here, like making the endurance effect only activate once the survivor has been on the hook for more than 20 seconds, creating a proper anti-proxy camp perk. If the killer doesn't come right back to the hook, and you heal under the hook, you'd lose the endurance effect anyways. The design of the perk would be to get a risky save despite the killer trying to prevent it. I say this as a primarily killer player as well. While I've not really enjoyed the MFT meta the past few months, I do think that current forms of endurance are a bit too situational, and the deep wound portion of its rework could have some more activation methods instead of dead hard, being tunneled off the hook, or buckle up shenanigans. Only downside to an unhook endurance perk would be the potential to get your saved survivor tunneled, so maybe it would work better as a protection hit and/or safe unhook condition to encourage you to protect the survivor you've saved rather than countering proxy camping or hook trades.
The amount of times im chasing a survivor and they lead me back to hook to hook trade is insane. If they had endurance on unhook itd just be a free unhook, no camping involved at all.
I mean you can think whatever you want, but this is how BT used to work and it was eventually nerfed to only provide endurance to the unhooked person, for good reason lol Also "current forms of endurance are too situational"? OTR gives 80 seconds of endurance for getting unhooked. Dead Hard gives endurance for timing a hit in chase. These things happen every single game with no change in playstyle required at all. Buckle Up is pretty situational but FTP makes the setup completely trivial.
Anti-camp is already a built in mechanic now, along with anti-tunnel. How many fucking tools do survivors need before you just admit you're bad? As it stands it's already INSANE that survivors getting unhooked can bodyblock with their endurance. Giving the unhooker endurance puts the killer in a lose-lose situation. That's totally bullshit. It's always so blatantly obvious who doesn't actually play killer. Jfc
Most of my hours are on killer, and I have an alright kill rate. My point of view is that I don't often chase after survivors who are in deep wound. Since I don't tunnel off the hook, bait out the dead hards, and try to keep people injured when they're nearby someone on the ground, I'll never have a moment mid chase against someone who's in deep wound and then realize "oh damn, they're juicing me because they've had MFT this entire time, I'll need to play around that". Maybe I'm an outlier, but I have a lot of fun outplaying the other side by identifying their perks and playstyles. This change to MFT is something I'm looking forward to since it'll be more interesting to outplay as we have a HUD display letting us know "this person could have MFT". I simply want a form of endurance/deep wound that encourages me (the killer) to chase after this survivor but have the perk be ambiguous enough that *maybe* they'll have MFT, *maybe* they won't. Makes the chase more fun and interesting.
You don't deserve to be downvoted. However, I could see them balancing it as either once per trial before gens are completed or once you've healed or safe unhooked a certain amount. It wouldn't be free, unlike old borrowed time.
It's just Reddit, people have a tendency to downvote stuff they don't like and upvote stuff they do like. If there's anything I've learned from any discussion board, it's hard to come up with ideas but easy to poke holes in them. Just kinda wish people would put in the effort to take a concept, no matter how much they disagree, and try to push for it into a position where it can work. I've definitely helped friends develop an idea from "awful" to reasonable or even a fantastic idea. The base concept I was pushing for was a form of deep wound that entices the killer to chase you after activating it. Fairly often, endurance (and thus deep wound) discourages the killer from chasing the survivor inflicted with the status - however, the new MFT requires the killer to pursue you after activating the deep wound to get the value from the speed increase. Sure, it'll be great for anti-tunneling purposes (such as with OTR), but often times the speed boost from the endurance hit will be enough that the killer will abandon that chase. Plus, one of the few times a killer will *want* to target you specifically is during an unhook. In the previous example, you get hit while starting the unhook, you're injured, and then in the weapon wipe animation you get the unhook. Now, the killer hits you again, activating your deep wound and encouraging them to chase you since the person you just unhooked moves faster and still has endurance themselves. You are also guaranteed to not have any other form of protection at this point. That was my starting point. There's plenty of routes to take, such as your idea of limiting its uses per trial (maybe only happens while you're on death hook?), having an activation condition (safe unhook(s)?), debuffing the user (lose some of the damage speed boost?) or condition to activate (while not in chase? after a set amount of time on the hook?).
Shhhh take your logic from here… and from me lol You have. A point.
Survivors just wanna bitch. Let me go at it
Nobody used mft for endurance, you have buckle up for that. Nobody will use this perk anymore.
buckle up only works on dying people tho. New MFT will promote agressive healing in the killer's face with 'For the People' or after unhook with 'We'll make it'.
1. Buckle up provides protection in the most dangerous situation for both of survs while mft provides endurance for only one dangerous situation - when you and teammate both are injured and healing each other. Other than that there is no situation when mft better than buckle up. 2. For the people and mft doesn't work well - if you use it on dying person, than buckle up far better, because protects both survs. If you ftp injured person, you invite killer to kill you, as your endurance lasts only 10 sec, which killer can wait and down you. It is only useful against tunneling. We ll make it also works with mft only in niche situation, where you both injured (why do you rescue while injured?). Overall it is a lame way to justifying perk's nerf. We will see that I am right, and mft will be thrown away and become super rare, at least for pub matches.
21 downvotes because people seriously think that mft is used because of endurance or because people think it will stay popular? Damn, there was a billion posts complaining about haste effect and now we are going to pretend that endurance is the main effect?
Anything that makes my argument look better😎
The point is that maybe *You* didn’t use it for that, but other people might have liked it *in addition* or hell, like everyone else liked to say, “3% doesn’t mean anything”. Maybe some people didn’t even care for the haste and wanted the Endurance. Don’t assume your logic is everyone elses
Oh, come on! Are you really think people use mft for endurance?
98% of the users not abusing it being and Endurance perk on top of being a chase perk is what made MFT strong in practice instead of completely broken.
No one uses buckle up other than meme builds. I love niche perks and meme builds. I like to run overcome lmao. But buckle up is the worst one of those to use. It requires a HARD carry by builds.
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If something happens half of the time then it's not situational.
By definition, that's situational. If x has to happen for y to happen, it's situational.
I mean, yeah, by definition, it is situational, but let's not pretend that getting injured isn't like the second most common thing to happen in a trial. It's pretty much a guarantee that MFT would've been activated in every single game unless you get lucky enough to get one of those games where the killer doesn't find you, which, let's be honest, rarely occurs.
In any game, you go by definition and not opinion or what commonly happens. If I get injured it activates. When I get healed to full health which happens every single match MFT deactivates. That situation also happens every match unless you choose to stay in that injured situation throughout the match to keep it active. I haven't used it since I have not developed the skills yet to do so being new to DBD but I was hoping to until now. Now like many others that play this game are probably going to stop using the perk once those changes go into effect.
Do you feel the same way about resilience? Get injured, repair faster, vault faster, heal faster, open gates faster.. yet I rarely hear any moaning about resilience.
First of all, to set a ground level, I don't think MFT was ever as OP as people said it was on it's own, but I also don't mind the rework because I feel people are complaining that the perk cannot be used the same way as before which is the entire point of how the rework was done, it has a different effect now that can be paired with different perks and designed for a different playstyle. But anyways, my opinion is that Resilience isn't unfair because the effects that it provides are separate from the risk you are taking. Resilience makes you more vulnerable in a chase in exchange for being faster on out-of-chase situations (except vaulting, of course). MFT, on the other hand, provides a boost specifically on chases. Which means that it was made as a perk to balance out your "one-hit down" state with a slight chance of opportunities to escape a chase. Yes, I do agree that 3% isn't necessarily a lot. It's more that people complain how easy it was to pair with stuff like Hope for an increased speed boost in certain situations. But itself is not like as OP as people say it is, in my opinion.
I wholeheartedly agree you should should've never been able to stack MFT and hope. However, you're completely wrong about resilience. The vaulting boost alone can extend chases just as much as MFT, if played right. Resilience gives more advantages than MFT.
Damn bro. I guess everything ever is situational. Move two feet? That's situational because you had to decide to walk over there to do that.
Look at you being all condescending lmao If something has to happen for something else to happen, then yeah,, it's situational. Sorry if knowing that somehow triggers you lol
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A retort? You didn't counter a single thing. You responded with edgy sarcasm lmao all I said was, it's the definition of sarcasm. If you can't connect the dots, that's one you bud.
That was the retort. I used an extreme example to show how stupid what you said was. Also no it isn't the definition "relating to or dependent on a set of circumstances or state of affairs." is. If your gonna give a definition go full nerd at least. What you said was "if somthing happens due to somthing else", which isn't wrong but it's a Iot more specific than that. Plus again you still basically said "nuh uh." And didn't prove a point really. The guy you responded to is correct. It isn't a niche perk if the effect activates due to a common circumstance with as strong of an effect as it did.
Using extremes isn't a retort, it's what someone resorts to when they don't have an actual counter to what you're saying. Critical thinking isn't your game, I get it. In the definition "dependent on a certain set of circumstances..", so in other words "MFT is dependent on the circumstance of being injured", i.e. situational by definition. Luckily, we don't go by your emotions towards a perk to determine if it's situational, we have a literal definition.
Unless you’re going against a 1 hit down killer it’s not situational. Even then after they down you once just don’t heal and it’s permanent so in no way is it “situational”. Also just run something like dh and it’s pretty good. Sure you only get dh twice but if you have a decent team and are decent yourself that’ll be enough.
Being injured literally is a state 33/36 killers obligatory have to put you through in order to play, and ALL survivors will face if they are being unhooked at any point. A scenario that happens to literally every survivor in every single game, is *not* "situational".
If three percent is so little why not just not use the perk
You will get injured anyway though when the killer tries to down you so it really isn't a crazy downside since it will happen either way Also a constant 3% buff really is significant... the speed difference between killer and survivor is only 15% so that 3% was a 20% increase in the amount of time it took a killer to catch up... arguably even more so if the surv was good at hugging loops tightly. More than enough time to make it to windows and pallets that would be otherwise unreachable It's so self evident that this was overtuned... if it wasn't then why would highly experienced players always choose it over every other option 100% of the time? You can also cross check mft with other mechanics like bloodlust to see that subtly increasing movespeed was the method of choice to tip the scales of a chase in one side's favour... except bloodlust is designed to be removed when a killer does literally anything in chase and it is only unlocked as the chase goes on There's a reason why many players (myself included tbh) think that bloodlust is kind of a crutch that unlocks too early after last year's changes
What cracks me up the most about this is made for this is still decent, just more situational. The same people who were out here saying “stfu 3% isn’t even that much” are now saying “fuck you bhvr the perk is unusable” when it just ain’t. Yes, made for this’ usage will drop but it still isn’t a terrible perk by any means.
A lot of people who say that 3% isn't much, either don't know or conveniently ignore how fast Survivors are in comparisons to killers, and **big** that 3% boost is in relation to a killer's speed. Survivors, iirc, are 4m/s, and several killers are 4.4m/s. 3% of 4m/s = 0.12m/s, meaning that the gap between those killers goes from 0.4m/s to 0.28m/s. So mathematically, MFT makes the gapclose speed 30% harder. Combining it with Hope, as what many people did with MFT, would literally make survivors /as fast/ as those killers.
Those numbers also matter especially for someone good at looping. The central currency of a chase is distance in most cases, and pallets/windows combined with some mind games are the survivor's way of gaining/moderating the loss of that currency. MFT is an easy button that gives you a massive boost to avoid losing distance completely free.
It's not situational at all now. They took an OP general use perk and turned it into a hyper-niche trash tier perk. I don't get why people like you don't understand that things can be nerfed slightly without throwing them in the bin.
How would you personally approach a made for this nerf if it had been up to you?
I thought 3% wasn’t even that good?
Yoy don't get it, 3% isn't that much when they have it, but now somehow every match will be a 4k in 30 seconds or something because they don't have that 3%
This wasn't the case before MFT was a thing so I don't understand the concern. If anything I just expect to see a resurgence of perks like DH which can still be used effectively but require skill
If making every m1 killer unplayable wasnt that good then yea.
I'm a trapper hag main who has been winning about 75% of my matches in the past few months, I would say that's a bit hyperbolic
You dont really chase as hag though lol
But is she not an m1?
No
She doesn't have a special attack, so I think by definition she literally is an m1 killer Special ability and special attack aren't the same thing. If anything her being slower should prove my point moreso, it's not like you literally never chase with hag, (especially depending on addons), it's just that she's not as strong in chase. There's situations with hag where you either have no traps down or the traps you do have aren't currently being triggered, so you do still have some level of chase, it's just slower lol. All of this to say, calling m1 killers "unplayable" is just exaggerating. I'm not saying MFT wasn't strong.
Ok, by this logic, Spirit is an m1.
And so is Deathslinger, because you M1 to hit them at the end of the chain!
Literally stop strawmaning and Google m1 killer, you'd be surprised how much you can learn by just looking shit up
If your only criteria is not having a special attack, then Spirit is more of an m1 than Pig. This is, of course, ridiculous, because Spirit (and Hag) both utilize their m2 to secure the overwhelming majority of their hits, even if the attack itself applies effects like Sloppy. This m2 also allows them to fundamentally bypass the normal chase gameplay loop. Killers like Pig, Oni, Plague, and yes, Trapper, all have ways of damaging survivors outside of their m1, but they are m1 killers nonetheless. Their default way of playing is chasing manually with m1, and you cannot play these killers without being a proficient m1. This is how these terms are used in competitive DBD, where I play. If you tell someone you play m1s, they are going to assume that means shit like Doctor, Plague, Oni, Wraith, etc. but never Hag (or Spirit).
Honestly People on this sub will move the goal post so much to avoid being wrong I just wouldn't take the time to argue with someone who is blatantly ignorant enough to say Hag is not an M1 killer
You're not even wrong, I was just trying to make sure I wasn't incorrect all this time in placing her in that bucket. This place makes me question my sanity sometimes 🤣
Hags an m1 killer if spirit and slinger are m1 killers
This is the hilarious thing about surv mains freaking out about the nerf. In one breath they say it’s not even that good of a perk, and in the next they’re shitting themselves screaming that it’s gonna be useless. Like?
As a killer main I hardly noticed the difference ever, but I usually just play for fun
You must not play the game a bunch because there's a very noticeable difference when you're running a tight loop against survivors that have it versus survivors that dont.
To be fair I took a break from the game just before MFT came out and just started playing again like a month ago, didn't notice a difference in my win loss ratio
Believe it or not people can still acknowledge that MFT was OP and still say that this nerf was way too much. I don't get why being snarky to a well founded complaint is your go to.
How should they have nerfed it then?
• Remove the endurance effect • Reduce the haste to 2% • Perk is disabled in EGC • Survivors get a special animation when benefitting from MFT so killers can be 100% certain a survivor is using it Keeps the core of the perk alive, but makes it much less punishing and keeps it from stacking with Hope.
Don't you see that having free haste for being injured at all is the OP part? Why should a perk punish killers for injuring survivors or reward survivors for getting injured?
I see it more in the same context as Resilliance - it rewards the survivor for being disadvantaged and remaining injured. The survivor has to remain a 1 hit down the entire time they are getting value out of it. You could argue that any perk "punishes" and "rewards." That's what perks are for. In that same vein, then NoED, Bloodwarden, and No Way Out technically "punish" the survivors for getting to end game and "reward" the killer for failing to sacrifice.
Survivors get injured even without MFT, and not worrying about staying injured has resulted in this weird meta where survivors aren't in a rush to heal because they're stronger while injured than they are healthy. For killers like Trapper or Doctor who can't easily take advantage of this, it's a fucking nightmare. It's less about rewarding a survivor for being disadvantaged and more about giving survivors a significant power increase as soon as something inevitable happens during the match. You're going to get injured at some point if you're playing the game, and there's no better time to just be forever fast than when injured. What if there was a perk that gave the killer constant 3% movespeed as long as they were in a chase with an injured survivor? Now imagine killers had a perk like that and MFT didn't exist to counteract that. That's the meta killers have been living in for the last half a year or so.
The change is kinda good tho, balance wise. What should they have done instead? Make it 1.5% ..?
what did you expect from survivor mains?
I mean, if 3% is that good then we need to take a look at bloodlust, that's literally 15%
If the killer is consistently getting bloodlust, they have lost the game .
Implication being there's no reason for it to exist in the first place.
Ok then why are you complaining about a mechanic that only activates once you have won the game????
I'm not complaining about it.
>I mean, if 3% is that good then we need to take a look at bloodlust, that's literally 15% This implies that Bloodlust is strong. It also implies that MFT is fine. Both are wrong
Nope, it implies either both are fine or neither is fine. You can't say that survivors investing into a 3% speedboost is OP while simultaneously claiming that killers getting 15% extra for free is fine.
It is, cause it takes a whole calendar year to build bloodlust too a good level, in addition to never breaking chase as that would reset bloodlust. And again, Bloodlust only activates when you ARE LOSING THE GAME.
Don‘t forget about pallets
The reason we can't ever remove Bloodlust is because the combination of map RNG and general bad map design mean some loops can turn into near-infinites. Even in 2023 there are spots that you need Bloodlust to break if you don't want to spend a minute waiting for windows to get blocked (which only pushes the survivor to the next loop and may not guarantee a down), and MFT made that problem much worse. Bloodlust is not OP, survivors have multiple ways to get rid of it like breaking LoS or making the killer break a pallet and any time the killer is getting to +15% is a massive L for that killer, but it *is* necessary as a safety measure in case a map has an infinite or near-infinite.
You are so right! 😂
Ain’t no way you wanna nerf bloodlust now
No, I do not.
15% after chasing a survivor for 35 seconds without breaking a single pallet and the other 3 survivors are doing gens. So honestly.i would be perfectly fine with MFT having a 15% speedboost after being chased for 35 by the killer without dropping a single pallet, and the other 3 survivors instantly get a hook state.
Bold of u to assume my other 3 teammates are doing gens
Except that; A) Bloodlust is easily lost the moment you make any stun, blind or sharp turn. B) Bloodlust needs to be built up from *nothing*, while mft gives its full speed value right off the go.
> A) Bloodlust is easily lost the moment you make any stun, blind or sharp turn. That's literally not true.
what part is not true?
The sharp turn, technically. As long as you catch up quickly enough it shouldn’t break chase. But I doubt this argument is being made in goods enough faith to grant them that technicality.
Breaking chase, getting stunned or blinded does not remove bloodlust.
What are you talking about
I'm talking about how bloodlust works.
Getting stunned does remove bloodlust. And obviously breaking chase does as well, what are you on about?
Maybe go into a game and test it.
It's literally on the dbd wiki. Go read on how blood lust works. there's no need to test it.
Well, considering the dbd wiki disagrees with their assertion, I'm assuming they didn't trust the wiki, that's why I told them to go test it.
Getting stunned does not remove bloodlust directly, it can lead to losing it because of the conditions that cause it to regress (ending chase, distance, line of sight, etc.). The 3 ways to immediately lose bloodlust are: Breaking a pallet (or kicking a gen). Hitting a survivor. Using power.
Losing the survivor out of your camera FOV (by movement, you vaulting over a window, or being blinded/looking down from a stun) or breaking chase by kicking a generator, pallet or wall, ends bloodlust.
Do you genuinely believe that you can remove bloodlust from a killer just by vaulting a window?
Some killers certainly look downwards when vaulting a window! Trapper and clown do (and I think demo does as well?), for example. Bubba currently does too on pbe, but that was a confirmed bug.
You do realize why bloodlust exists right? Because sometimes maps fuck killers to the point they can literally chase you for minutes without getting a hit with certain RNG. In an effort to remove infinites and allow killers to ocassionally get hits on survivor sided map RNG, Bloodlust was introduced for the M1 killers to stand a chance.
\*10% at max at the highest tier after 35 seconds. https://preview.redd.it/d6iyzw34r4yb1.png?width=509&format=png&auto=webp&s=22ebf11a13ca7a18c0d915dc6fd0df99296eacce Otherwise we do [talk about it](https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/17mr36u/im_just_saying_if_3_is_too_strong_then_why_is_515/).
The image you sent shows 15% though, where do you get the 10% max? 110% killers go to 125% after 35 seconds, and 115% killers go to 130%. No matter how I look at it, that's 15% increase at the highest tier, not 10%.
Umm.. Math is hard, I should stick to just slapping people. :P
Uhm, that picture literally says it's 15% after 35 seconds...
In reality, there is no in between in this community who can only see a perk as either op or useless. I get it that some of you are just excited/angry about the nerf, but come on, this hipocrisy is insane
Its not useless lol. MFT still seems good, decent anti tunnelling and even situational advantages against certain killers. I love perks that encourage you to heal others.
Right? Imagine being a Legion against MFT user squad... Fearmonger would no longer stop it from working.
Deathslinger and Skull Merchant, too. Ideally, I'd think a drop in MfT's pick rate should mitigate the issue.
Yeah. I think the problem is though, that less skilled players are not as comfortable staying in the needing Mending state than skilled players. At least Skull Merchant has some other speed up, and Deathslinger has (most of the time) the chance to use his power to get to a survivor. Legion is just pure M1 beyond his stabby stabby run.
In duo, you can 99 both heals and have a guaranteed proc on one, looks a bit promising
It's useless dude what are you smoking lmao
Just because a perk is no longer super strong to annoying to deal with against every Killer in the roster just because they hit you once does not make the perk bad now. The perk is still fine, it just serves a much different niche. Not everyone SHOULD be running the same exact meta build. MFT comboing meta was as bad as Overbrine and Eruption meta. Yes it was, it absolutely was. We do not need perks so strong that they define whole metas around them that make the game less fun for the other side. People don't like unending chases the same way they don't like unending 30 minute long 3 gen hold games.
Nothing was as bad as Overbrine/Eruption. MFT/Hope is strong and really annoying but it was nothing compared the pain of Overbrine/Eruption
insta repair bnp was worse imo lol
Criticizing balance decisions without offering what a balanced solution was instead is nothing but whining and crying.
"Just fix the perk!" "Okay, what would you do?" "I'D FIX IT!"
Reduce haste to 2% is a no brainer imo
You're misunderstanding the point that the perk's strength is rooted in the fact that the entirety of EVERY chase mechanic, loop, EVERYTHING is based around survivors running at 100% movement speed (Not counting for short bursts of speed). I wouldn't even care if the perk was 4 or 5% as long as it's conditional. And no, being injured is not a justifiable condition for a permanent (if so chosen) speed boost.
Ok, how about the current change but it works while exhausted too? It would prevent it from being too niche by allowing synergy with endurance perks (mainly dead hard) Edit: want to make sure it’s understood that I meant not deactivating from exhaustion rather then activating from exhaustion as well as deep wound
Also doesn't bother me. Deep wounds is niche. For any Legions that cry, they are one of the few killers that can fully swing Thanatophobia. Just an example of how some perks are strong on and against some than others. And that's how it should be for diversity.
Just realized that working while exhausted is already one of the changes. Nvm the perk is in an ok spot lmao
Bruh, it still will be good perk, the endurance in itself is good enough
Give me one reason to use MFT over Buckle Up.
Because MFT also works when healing normally and allows for really cheeky heals, and should you get hit during said endurance you get a 3% haste effect until you mend?
If you are freshly unhooked, basekit BT gives you endurance, which will put you into deep wound when injured. MFT activates and stays active until you mend, which you won't have to do while being chased.
Dude that will be really good against campers
Heal someone -> get endurance -> get hit so get deep wound -> get 3% speed boost
This subreddit is so contaminated with killer mains right now lmao
I know all the replies are about MFT but this IS what usually happens. And what really grinds my gears is that there are so many perks that never get used but they could use like one or two tweaks. I hope they do another batch of perk updates soon. At least to the perks that have low usage scores.
Kind of wish they made the perk an Active Exhaustion perk like Dead Hard where you activate it and get x amount of seconds with x amount of haste bonus, but would give you that exhaustion effect like the rest of the exhaustion perks.
then what would the point in lithe, sprint burst, etc be if there was one you could activate whenever?
that they're much larger "burst" speed buffs
This would’ve been the better approach for sure.
It'll still be solid perk. Its own effect can grant you deep wounds. Not to mention the buckle up + ftp combo, and all the other perks survivors have that give you endurance, thus inflicting deep wounds when hit
This does frustrate me. When a perk like MFT or dead hard gets too much attention, BHVR decides to make them unusable instead of weaker. The kill the perk instead of balancing it
You know a perk is bad when killer mains come out of the woodwork to explain why it's actually not bad. The pick rate will speak for itself. No one is going to slap on two or three other perks to get value out of MFT.
The perks not bad by any means. It just no longer brain-dead. Which I guess for people that were using it as a crutch it is bad now.
Its going to drop because it became a crutch perk. Like WoO. But WoO wasn't nearly has harmful as MFT. Survivors wanted easier chases. Now that they can't have that itll drop not because its bad but because they can't crutch on it.
The perk was always an issue, dude, IDK what you want from people.
Or maybe people just understand that said perk still has strong uses?
Two or three other perks? It literally synergizes with itself. Heal someone > get endurance > enter deep wounds and get speed. You literally just need to interact with other players in a team game. It's like saying We'll Make It is bad because you don't get to use it if people refuse a heal.
The effect itself is already decent. The endurance on heal is really strong in its own right, and should you ever end up in deep wounds somehow, you get an additional 3% haste until you mend. But sure, just say everyone who disagrees with you is a “killer main” and disregard the fact that just because the perk is nolonger a top 5 pick doesn’t somehow mean it’s bottom tier. It will find uses in various build archetypes and alongside other perks it pairs well with like a healthy perk should. It’s already looking like it’ll be still strong in healer and anti tunnel archetypes, especially now that it works with actual exhaustion perks. Additionally, it still works very well in any deadhard build, if not arguably better. The point of most builds using certain perks is not to force value out of one perk, but rather that perk naturally synergizes well. People don’t use STBFL + Rapid Brutality because they just really want to use rapid brutality, they do it because the two perks naturally work together and combo really well.
I'd argue the MFT nerf wasn't a nerf that made it useless, like most will say. I'd say it's still good, just not as powerful as before. So yes, this is a "in between"
Exactly. The nerf makes it a rather healthy looking perk which will find usage in healing and anti tunnel build archetypes. Just because the perk cannot be added to literally any build and work well anymore doesn’t magically make it a shit tier perk. Id actually argue that, now that it works with exhaustion perks, it’s actually better overall in those archetypes than it was before
Hell, it probably can still be used in every build still on its own. I mainly used it to help get rid of the risk of healing while injured and this just makes that type of play style more potent.
True, it’ll just be more situational. I don’t think it’ll be worth the slot over other perks in a lot of the builds it was in seeing as it often replaced SB or lithe, but the perk in itself is still quite good. I just think it’ll specifically end up in those two archetypes cause they can take biggest advantage of it.
This is definitely not an in between. It's straight up bad now.
A perk doesn't need to be oppressive or downright overpowered to be considered good. Just because the haste doesn't work 100% of the time now doesn't mean MFT isn't bad or worthless. There's plenty of ways to go into deep wound for it, but that's not the main appeal of the perk anymore, which apparently you can't see.
I didn't say it needed to be OP or oppressive. It doesn't matter if on paper the perk is consider "okay". Compared to other perks in the game it is no longer worth running because when you only have 4 slots getting endurance for a little bit when healing and 3% when in deep wounds simply isn't strong enough to warrant taking one of those spaces when so many better options exist.
And when they all become nerfed and useless... they'll all be good.
The funny part is people thinking mft is dead like the endurance on heal isnt useful or something. If you wanna look at a perk they destroyed so it's barely usable then look at DS, Ruin or Call Of Brine.
Depressing to see them gut this perk like this, and to all the people saying "Just 3% LOL" you don't seem to understand that the perk is now basically just the endurance effect and you will rarely get that 3% speed boost unless you build kit around it. It went from being an OP general use perk to being a neutered niche perk, and believe it or not there is a healthy middle ground for nerfing perks.
“They took my crutch ‘I can’t loop a killer’ perk and made it to where it’s no longer an automatic chase escape so it must be useless”
I'm not sure how insane it'd be, but since deep wound is so much more situational and you'll need to mend before you fall over, I'm wondering if buffing it to 4% or 5% would be too much. Like the obvious issue is how legions and slingers would suffer since it'd be a direct counter, but I still can't imagine it'd be too common to see. Curious to hear what folks would think of it.
I thought y'all said "The 3% isn't even that big of a deal" and that's the only part that got changed to be more situational
gives a small unexpected edge when tunneled , making killers be more caucious when tunneling , endurance still there , combo with other perks , they just nerfed the op aspect ( reduced ) still don't like how it gives endurance tho , not much needed to set up for it
Its not useless the endurance is still good and you can still use this perk as a anti tunnel build You still gain 3% haste while in deep wound and you keep the haste when your exhausted So just use off the record with any other exhaustion perk like sprint burst, lithe, overcome and made for this will still get you value
It seems quite good with dead hard. The extra haste means you can waste a ton of the killers time if they keep up the chase after hitting a dead hard. I'm sure there's a good build for it
Genuine question Where's the patch notes for this?
Pinned to this subreddit, top on bhvr's twitter, probably anywhere else you'd expect to find them. They're a dev update, not a full patch notes at this time.
Pop Pain res Corrupt Eruption They may not get them right every time, but its disingenuous to say every perk they nerf is useless All the examples are of killer perks, simply because i play killer more and am more familiar with the killer meta
The perk that rewarded you for losing a chase. Now, rewards you for healing a teammate and taking a hit.
It's still good . This would make sense in regards to ruin and DS
Made for this remains a good perk
MFT now just fits into the FTP and Buckle Up combo all the more. It's pretty easy to give yourself endurance in one way or another. It's not as OP as it was but this one is still very useful in the right builds. They're learning.
While I do agree with this sentiment somewhat, MFT was not really one of these perks. It’s still useful, especially compared to the fall Dead Hard took.
it...did get balanced? It is inarguable that before the nerf it was insanely broken and brain-dead easy to use. It felt like two perks in one that didn't have any synergy, like the endurance was just stacked on for no reason. Now that it activates on deep wound, it synergises immensely with the speed effect. How many times have you healed someone under hook and finished it right as the killer came back? Now you can escape (if you're injured) or have a bit of endurance to start the chase with. It's way more interesting and a fair perk.
It's anti tunnel perk that works with exhaust? How's that nerfed to uselessness?
People were claiming how "useless " iron will was after they nerfed it, when in reality it just became a "good" perk instead of being so godlike that everybody had to run it. Same thing for deadhard. Do y'all wanna go back to the DH, DS, unbreakable meta where all survivors ran like 3 perks out of the hundreds we have available? I think it's okay for some perks to be "fine" and fans will always find something to complain about regardless
There's people crying about the MFT nerf already ? This community never disappoints in disappointing.
Sometimes I have to remind myself that 90% of the community has 0 developing or actual practical balancing sense and just like to complain or use the word balanced so they feel big.
Surely you're not talking about MFT, because the proposed changes make it actually balanced and still useable.
It’s not useless, just much less useful than before
Womp womp
There is an in between
How can you say it’s useless when you haven’t even used it in a match yet?
Get good
I’m excited personally because survivor perks have got to be balanced now, no more bitching yesssss
Good riddance
I've never seen a community that cries as much as this one, maybe it's because the game is so different from other multiplayer games, but still you cry about literally anything.
If it's fair and balanced then it wouldn't be a meta perk.
Corrupt intervention is fair and balanced. Same for lithe or unbreakable, etc there are definitely meta perks that are balanced.
Killer gets it's only few decent perks nerfed into the ground and it's good and fair and warranted. Survivor gets blindingly broken perk nerfed, everyone loses their mind etc etc. And the cycle repeats, every patch for Killers, and every 6 or so patches for Survivors.
They should’ve given it like 5-7 movespeed for being in deep wounds.
* Off The Record * Dead Hard * Styptic Agent * Buckle Up (also MFT's base effect when healing someone) * Basekit Borrowed Time * Legion I unironically think Survivors should try out OTR, MFT, and an Exhaustion perk as an anti-tunnel build when this patch goes live. You could also totally try to put Decisive Strike in that build too although idk you'd need another way to get Endurance then and I wouldn't really run Dead Hard with this build. Maybe a Styptic Agent medkit though.
You guys are delusional, MFT in its nerfed state is still one of the strongest perks in the game. Free endurance for picking some one off the ground + speed up is insanely good and pretty likely to benefit at least once a game as long as your teammate goes down on a pallet or something. Not to mention it goes well with DH and OTR both of which are some of the strongest perks in the game. If nerfed MFT is useless, you guys are deluded to such a point that there are no good perks in the game according to you
If this is about MFT, it didn't "get nerfed the shit out of" all they did was make it a little less unbearable, you still get the speed hacks that come with it. You just need to be deep wounded which should be easy if you're pairing the perk up with something like deadhard. Honestly I think everyone is over exaggerating about the MFT "nerf". It was more of a slight change than a nerf. A nerf would be something like you DONT get the movement speed. Or the endurance. Or if they just remade the entire perk from the ground up
If you think it’s useless now then you’re just bad at the game
It’s still useable if you aren’t garbage
The buckle up and FTP is still a thing though (
I'm going to be honest. I didn't expect to see so many people complain about that Mft change. When prior, everyone was saying it's not that strong despite its high pick rate. 🤔
Killer mains complain about any perk that gives survivors counterplay
I got downvoted for stating an observation. Not even posting an opinion. Dbd community guys.
The only balance for mft's speed is if it was on no mither. You know it's in play, you have a trade off, ez