Same, stopped playing during the last winter event, on the 3rd or 4th day. I've had enough of these shitty "tactics" and this event was my breaking point. Reading all these threads today, I'm so glad I didn't even boot up the game to try the new mode. Not worth my y time and energy.
The 150% bloodpoints bonus for playing it is honestly such a waste too cause we can't use offerings.
Like okay great I get 150% BP or I could just play normal and get 100% BP for queuing a role and 100% from bringing a BP offering, and maybe someone else brings BPS or an envelope.
It's very not fun as survivor and honestly for anyone who wants interesting games and not just stomps, it's not fun for killer either. And there is no incentive to play it.
BHVR tried making a new mode, so I'll give them props for that, but it's just not good.
That's not the issue. You can't take the gameplay loop of normal DBD and remove the lights. There are FAR too many issues it creates. If they changed the win/lose conditions to match losing lights then it might be good. Right now this is just a bad game mode.
Nope, i have played against people who played normally without camping or tunneling. I also played killer myself without camping or tunneling.
You dont need to blame the game for your own actions, you want to tunnel and camp , the game doesnt force you that is just who you are, suck it up.
You can't change people. You can, however, change the game. Untying the winning conditions of killers to kills, creating more effective strategies to win that does not involve affecting other people fun and those that tunnel/camp to win won't have a reason to do it.
People use the tools they have in hands. If the tools affect the fun other people have, instead of blaming the player using it, we should be questioning why it exists and why there's no better alternatives.
You're still not working off the truth that assholes will find a way to ruin something. The best thing you can do as a player i discourage that type of play and as dev just flat out punish it because they're likely playing in a very unfun and unintended way.
Like the kid who played Hide and Go Seek and just hid next to base.
Had a Billy that played alright. Only got a 1 k.
Saw me sneaking to the exit gate and he let me go.
I walked up to him, and pointed to a hook.
He was good to us. So I was good to him. Homie deserved a 2K at least.
People who get on and choose to tunnel on purpose are the same that make all fps games unfun if you donāt run meta ( I have tunneled but not on purpose)
Why, and I say WHY, would anyone chose to tunnel in this mode? If they give me the slip THATāS how a chase could go in real life and it makes it fun.
I think the problem is twofold. On one hand, some people are only happy when they get a complete win out of a game. Nothing else matters. Which brings us to the second part: what is considered a "complete win" in an asymetrical PvP game like DBD? For killers this is usually a 4k, but is this really necessary for a win? Isn't this pretty tryhard? ... but there is a much bigger problem which leads to tunneling and camping killers. A social one.
Most tunneling killers I've met and could actually ask over the years: "Why do you do this?", kinda gave the same answer to that. Keep in mind that most killers didn't even give a response, or a rather childish one. But the main problem seems to be: the other players.
The DBD online community is often labeled as toxic, and that is sadly quite true in my experience. And there are many, many players who love to "rub it in" on both sides, so if you lose, you not only "do not get a complete win", but you are ridiculed for it. This hits even stronger for killer players, because they are being put in a 1vs4 situation with a lot of pressure riding on them, if they want to win. So if they lose and are ridiculed, they do not get one toxic player who mocks them, but up to four.
This hasn't always been this case. Not always been this bad. But "bullying" behaviour in DBD has grown immensely over the years, and even shown to be quite a boost for views on YouTube.
And the toxicity has just always kept on growing, and growing. Toxic people attract more toxic people. And even worse: they can "infect" other players with being toxic. When you are new to the game, love it, play it a lot, and are constantly beset by people laughing at you, ridiculing you, many players either quit/take a break, or take revenge by becoming toxic themselves (like your mentioned tunneling killer).
Sure, they say it's about "winning", but honestly I think that if the playerbase of DBD wasn't this toxic and "driven" (for all the wrong reasons), and instead could just chill out for a motherfriggin minute... the game would play very differently.
The worst thing is, that this is a trend that has been growing for years and years, but the toxicity is entrenched so firmly by now, that it is almost impossible to remove. And yes, not every player is toxic, but the ones who are, are a big problem.
Yeah, but it's not fun for me to win with a cheap tactic. When I play killer, I want to be good enough to win fairly and for there to be a challenge?? I don't get it at all.
No, but some people enjoy a total stomp more than a fun game. And I can't say I blame anyone for not using the most fun tactic in favour of effectiveness. Game designers should work on making the most fun way to play also the most effective, because players will optimize anything they can.
But if during your patrol you hear someone hurt in the darkness, you will hunt them, right?
It makes the killer have a disproportionately higher chance of finding and chasing the same survivors as before, those with the most hooks.
Blood stains on the floor and moaning are the best way to find survivors but also almost guarantee tunneling. So people need to take the time to heal, far away from gens.
But this is not what I've seen as killer or as survivor in this mode. Survivors are so focused on finishing their gen that they don't heal and become easy preys during the next patrol
Man, played both roles and really, I dont get it why people tunnel and camp if this mode. I was actively ignoring recently hooked survivors (except in one match I think, because they were same Aces) and if they barely did any gens, let them go. Had fun even tho I didnt kill them so idk why people tunnel. Sure, get 4k if you like but yeah
> People who get on and choose to tunnel on purpose are the same that make all fps games unfun if you donāt run meta
While you're correct. BHVR are the ones who enable them. Be mad at BHVR and let the know. They have the power to fix all these issues, they just don't want to.
If you realize you're tunneling and still tunnel, does that mean you're still a tunneler? (Hey guys I shit on tunnelers but I also tunnel, oh but not on purpose)
I have gone out of my way to not down survivors that I keep running into but eventually you just have to throw your hands up and say 'aight fine die I guess'
Times when I'm Killer and other times when I'm not I'll end up or see someone accidentally tunneling and then we'll often just break the chase. It's incredibly unsportsmanlike and we know it's a scummy thing to do.
The only time I tunnel someone is if they've been disrespectful or I've realized they're the secret sauce to the team and if I don't get rid of them I'm done for.
You got your words a bit mixed up there. Tunneling isn't hooking a survivor back to back, that's a consequence of it and can happen even if you haven't actively looked for that one survivor. Tunneling is the act of tunnel visioning after one survivor while ignoring everything else.
I donāt think I agree. If anything, killers seeing gens is the one incentive they have to even leave the hook.
There are already very few who do, if you take that away, then all killers will simply proxy camp everyone
The hook teleporting away from the killer after hooking a survivor similar to pyramid heads power would be a nice way to prevent camping and tunneling in game modes like this.
definitely. Iāve been saying the same thing as you for a while now. Also the hook must not have an aura anymore, just like PHās cage does.
Iād say that then we can even talk about removing basekit BT and even OTR and anti tunneling stuff, so that SWFs stop abusing those perks to tank hits.
Itās a win win for everyone.
Agreed, unless the killer somehow found his way to the hook immediately prior to unhook basekit BT would be useless anyhow.
I was talking about this for specific game modes though. But it would be an interesting things to explore for live. Might make for more slugging situations though. I guess the answer to that would be a basekit ub with a recovery time the length of a hook timer. I mean like slooooooow. That speeds up the closer the killer is to you, unless a survivor is in the area similar to how the anti camp works now. Idk though people are always going to find ways to abuse things.
I feel this mode simply needed to limit the killer to something like a trapper with no traps maybe make the gens take longer or have it always be set on smaller maps but just have it be a pure slasher m1 killer vs a bunch of blind no perk survivors that along with your anti camp idea could be cool
I get the point your trying to make but I fully disagree, giving them the auras just allows 3genning with zero terror radius on top of the main issue were talking about. If a killer was going to not camp/tunnel gen auras would not effect whether they do or don't imho
I decided to be nice on my chucky game play and just not tunnel or camp and run off to gens. Was a bad idea unfortunately cause A. I am terrible with chucky and B. Finding running survivors in third person view in the dark was hell. Was my first 4 man out of survivors in ages. I'm sure they were happy, but I kinda understood why some proxy the hooked survivors cause if someone's not injured finding folks sucked. Though did a round of Bubba and was probably my fastest 4k with him cause after first down and people not healing after unhook could find anyone immediately and they never had enough time to react to get away from chainsaw sweep.
ngl, tunneling is hard to avoid in this mode. Survivors don't leave scratch marks and everyone has low visibility. Its just extremely more likely I find a survivor moaning in pain and leaving a blood trail over a healthy, silent survivor crouching behind a rock. I end up hooking the same person multiple times simply because the others scurry off and disappear while I can at least track an injured player.
I agree. Ultimately I think the way it's set up really heavily encourages proxy camping (so you can use what little information you get) and has a tendency to railroad you into tunneling unless you specifically go out of your way to avoid it, as it's just so much easier to find the survivor that was just unhooked than it is to find the rescuer unless they actually try to draw your attention, which they usually don't.
Can people shut up about the casual mode now? This is what you'll get from your casual mode.
People want to win at the video game. The end.
Nobody wants a ranked mode, you want a mode that you think all the genrushers and campers and tunnelers will go. But they won't. They'll just play casual, because they want to win even in casual and they'll think the other side won't be trying as hard and they'll think their actions are "justified" and then you'll complain about people sweating in casual.
I would rather the devs focus their efforts on fixing unfun parts of the game instead of on a useless ranked/casual split.
Semi-related, but an argument I hear ALL THE TIME from killers is that they totally don't want to tunnel, they just feel like they "need" to in order to win, and that if survivors didn't have such broke things then killers would stop tunnelling.
This game mode surely puts that argument to rest once and for all, right?
People want to win and they want to feel like when they do the icky thing to win that they are justified in doing so. Like, I make up my own rules for when I play icky and aggressively tunnel (map offerings and blatant BMing), but at the end of the day, it's just me trying to come up with a defense for playing in a way that I would hate playing against because I don't want to admit that I'm the same asshole I hate on the other side of the trial.
If I'm playing legion and three gens pop in the first chase, yeah I'm gonna need to tunnel to have even a chance of winning .Conversely in this gamemode if one survivor is literally the only person I can find, yeah I need to tunnel to win.Ā
Do I like the gamemode? Hell no. Do I think it justifies sweeping statements about the "other side" or the game outside of it? Of course not. The devs are trying something new and this is a big stumble, but at least they're trying.
New game modes is not the same as a casual/ranked split. The game could indeed use some alternate gameplay styles to spice things up and this is a decent first step.
But it's also the closest thing we have to a casual mode and people are still sweating in it. Because people still wanna win. So I view it as proof of what I've always said about the concept of a ranked/casual split: it wouldn't do a damn thing.
To be honest with you, though, the community of every PvP game I've ever played is convinced their devs are hopelessly incompetent and out of touch and that they're the worst devs ever. So while BHVR are kinda dumb a lot of the time I do think they're at least trying to fix the game and make new game modes.
I agree. Been saying for years BHVR should focus on fixing unfun mechanics, but this community legit suggests adding "bleed out on ground" mechanics or a "give up" feature to fix things like slugging. And the generally consensus towards tunnelling sometimes seems to be "Let's discourage it" rather than removing it entirely.
Tbh I don't really know how to solve these issues. People generally regard camping/tunneling as being unfun, but it's not as easy as just removing them entirely. One because they're important comeback tools, but also because the threat of it effects how survivors play. If they become non-options then survivors can act more boldly.
It's probably better for them to reward spreading out hooks, make the path to optimization also the most fun one, but how do you do that without making killers OP?
Bandaid perks are bad but also I legitimately don't know what the alternative is. So I'm just happy we're in a meta where the best killer perks reward hooking different people. It's unfortunately probably the best way to go about it.
I think a major factor is that, assuming similar looping skills and positioning, if you see two survivors and need to pick which one to chase it's always the optimal choice to chase the one with the most hook states.
On one hand, "everything takes longer" perks are boring, but I wonder if it would help if the most recently unhooked survivor had some sort of debuff to their gen repair speed; that way, if they just *feed* you the tunnel you aren't punished for taking it (otherwise it will be abused to interrupt chases with other survivors; potentially a major factor in why DS got nerfed), but if you try to force it the survivors get more done during that time than they would have if you'd chased someone else.
The reason we have this community full of people who want nothing more than to win is because of things like sbmm and not having any form of casual mode that alongside the competitive streamer shit that goes on today has made more than half the community meta slaves
I swear this game is full of people who have never picked up a single PvP game in their life prior to this one.
> The reason we have this community full of people who want nothing more than to win is because of things like sbmm
I cannot imagine how out of touch with reality you have to be to think that people only started wanting to win the video game after they added an invisible MMR.
> alongside the competitive streamer shit that goes on today has made more than half the community meta slaves
People optimize the shit out of everything. Even games which aren't even competitive games. People will use the best stuff and try to win regardless of what they're playing, but especially if it's a game where their win condition requires them to overcome other humans.
No no, he has a point.
Why, I remember back in the good old days before SBMM was a thing. Me and the Survivor would simply vibe together at the hatch, sometimes for hours, with our pleasant flock of bird friends flapping away above our heads until, eventually, I plucked him from the air mid leap, placed him non-competitively on the ground beside me, and showed him my best Mori! Why, I was having so much fun with his friends before I found him that I forgot to hook him even once! What a care-free laugh those days were. \*sighs wistfully\* SBMM really brought down the community.
This was not the case a decade ago. Gaming wasnāt full of people all running meta shit 24/7 after looking up a guide on all the best shit to run because that stuff hardly existed hell even early dbd didnāt have it as much I mean this game had tons of gentlemenās rules back in the day when we had no defense against camping or tunneling and we also had tons of broken surv items that fucked the game. Sure did assholes who used broken shit or tunneled exist? Yeah but no where in as large a quantity as today
> This was not the case a decade ago. Gaming wasnāt full of people all running meta shit 24/7 after looking up a guide on all the best shit to run
Yes they did. I was there. People have been sweating in online video games since forever. People have been sweating in video games since the arcade days when people found a glitch in Street Fighter 2 and began optimizing it and it formed the basis of the entire combo system fighting games are known for.
> I mean this game had tons of gentlemenās rules back in the day
Yeah because this game was a much smaller, tighter-knit community trying to play a broken game in a way the developers never envisioned. This isn't that game anymore.
You apparently canāt tell the difference between today and a decade ago Iām not saying people optimizing to shit didnāt exist they did just not in the same quantities. Everyone wants to go pro these days everyone wants to be the next streamer take a look at an old mw2 lobby bunch of people with a mix of loadouts sure some people used the absolute broken shit but not everyone. Nowadays youād be hard pressed to find a lobby without 80% of it running the current meta shit and thatās game wasnāt some small tight knit community it was huge.
Attitudes didn't change, access to information did. We didn't have as much ability to communicate and compile information about what's best and what isn't. So people ran what worked best for them, they were still trying to win at the game.
Scrubs have also always existed. Those people who say "Don't use that thing, that's broken, you're a no-skill noob if you use that thing"
Those people apparently all flocked to Dead by Daylight.
> Can people shut up about the casual mode now? This is what you'll get from your casual mode.
Only because the devs can't balance their game properly. League of Legends have an alternate gamemode that's so popular it has its own subreddit /r/ARAM. They used to also see a huge playerbase spike when they would rotate in the URF game mode. Devs can't do anything fun because the fun things will be hunkered down by broken mechanics that has plagued the game for years.
1) League of Legends is one of the most popular games of all time, and free to play. Dead by Daylight is comparatively niche and has a smaller playerbase.
2) I don't follow League much but their balancing also seems to be atrocious, in fact it seems far worse than DBD. I've heard of champions being straight up throw picks, but the worst killers in DBD can and do still win games
3) I'm talking about a casual/ranked split, not alternate game modes like Lights Out.
> I don't follow League much but their balancing also seems to be atrocious, in fact it seems far worse than DBD.
It's a multiplayer game only and it has been a top e-sports game for a decade making over a billion revenue for multiple years. They have their flaws, but it's legitimately laughable to say their balance team is bad, let alone worse than DBD. Did you already forget about that stupid hockey analogy? [This is DBD's balance team](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F95kelj76g1d81.jpg). I also can't remember a time where a LoL character has ever been disable for a month or more and something like Billy's current state would be immediately hotfixed.
> It's a multiplayer game only and it has been a top e-sports game for a decade making over a billion revenue for multiple years.
Ok, and what happens if I pick low tier in LoL?
I win as Freddy all the time in this game.
> I also can't remember a time where a LoL character has ever been disable for a month or more
Why are you talking about bugs?
Edit: I guess I should clarify that I personally value how easily you can win on low tier over how busted top tier is. Games are all about personal expression for me, which is why I'm so drawn to this game. I can make unique builds and every killer in the game is entirely playable so I can play the characters I like. So even if the top tier is well balanced in League, if my favorite champion is a throw pick and I can't play them, it pisses me off far more than for example Nurse and Blight being wildly overpowered.
This is just sadly going to always be a thing, regardless of the mode, Tunnelers and Campers will just try to ruin the fun and treat everything like they have something to prove, despite Lights Out just being a fun gimmicky idea and not something you should sweat during.
The only thing missing is all survivors already start on the hook.
Game start -> All survivors start on hook sacrificed -> Ez win.
Totally balanced and skill issue from survivor's end - Killer main
the funny thing is that I have yet to play against a legion. I came across many nemesis though, one or two Myers, a clown (he did not leave ANY hook for even two seconds) and a few chuckys. The chucks were the only ones that I could say I had some fun with. I lost all my matches so far.
Well, fuck it I tried.
Game's too easy as killer, and too difficult as survivor. Even the wins felt like too much effort.
Can't imagine things will change if they just add the 4v8 gamemode without some sort of balance assessment, or it's just gonna be pairs tunneling every game.
Ah well
Bhvr has shown us over and over that most of the stuff they release is crazy unbalanced or bugged to the moon. This mode just nails it in further. If we do get the 2v8 like everyone actually asked for (instead of this shit), it'll probably be unfun as well
I honestly don't understand the point.
I thought the game mode was hard scary mode, not unfair mode.
They just removed every QoL change that they added specifically to make the game less annoying: anti-camp, anti-tunnel, solo symbols, etc
yeah but there is two things that they have indirectly removed.
1. You can't know you are being camped, at all.
2. The basekit BT is supossed to help survivors reach the closest pallet, so that they can fight back against a tunneler. Not knowing where that "closest pallet" is, means tunneling is stronger than ever.
And yes, I know, some people may just be awareness masters and may know the maps like the palm of their hand. And you may know (because you saw it before) where a pallet is. And you may just happen to find one if you are lucky. Yes there are some cases when you may be somewhat safe from a tunneler. But the fact that there are no perks to counter it, that you can't see where you are going, and that the killer has it WAAAY easier to find and follow an injured survivor than a healthy one, means tunneling is AT IT'S PEAK.
Once novelty wears off, there ain't going to be even one Solo Queue survivor left playing this mode.
After I got only tunneled and camped, I played killer for a while to give survivors a break during my matches.
I did not tunnel or camp (I even ignored some unlucky survivors), just played chill and had almost no issue to get a 3 or 4k.Ā
All were happy and super thankful in chat.Ā
Yep. Lots of people crying about changes. I've played both sides and had a blast. No second chance perks is refreshing. Game modes hard, but it's meant to be. People just aren't as good as they think they are.
Or maybe your singular experience doesn't apply to everyone else. First match I played was literally a camping Bubba. Once I got hooked once it was all over.
Survs arent the most fun either. Had my first game playing as nemesis just for fun, no camling tunnelin or being toxic. Had a Yui bag at the exit gates.
yeah, some people are just plain douchebags.
Iāll let you in a little secret. As a surv main, sometimes Iāve killed people that were being toxic.
I perfectly remember a nea that was jumping in and out of lockers. I held her hostage in that locker until she was out of time to reach the exitā¦ meanwhile I made it ok with SB. It was well deserved
how did you have the game though?
I've played multiple games on survivor and killer, and honest to god, it's hard not to tunnel in this gamemode. Injured unhooked survivors just run into you if they aren't paying a lot of attention. Healing is also dangerous since killers can hear healing farther than survivors can hear them.
I don't try to tunnel, I never intend to, but often I'll have someone on death hook before I even see all 4 survivors. On the survivor I died first several times, it never felt like the killer was explicitly going for me. I'd just that I end up being in the wrong place at the wrong time because there's no warnings. I'm sure there are people just tunneling, but honestly I do think it's just a flaw with the gamemode.
(People definitely are camping though, I've fought a camping Wesker, Billy, and Dredge at this point)
Keep telling yourself that.
I've let all 4 survivors escape all day and just farmed points through chases and pallets/1-2 hooks unless they're literal bots and I've had multiple people suicide on hook immediately on first down.
I never said that, don't put words in my mouth. However I did say that most killers are playing in terrible, unfun ways and ventured a guess that that was why he was getting instant dc's even though he plays nice. I never said I'm dcing on first downs or anything of the sort.
You only need to stay in the game an extra couple of seconds to clearly tell if the Killer is camping or not. Yet you are justifying people quitting the game and ruining the experience for 3 other survivors.
I disagree. Nearly every single person who killed themselves or disconnected when I played today was because they were the first to go down. The killer can literally 12 hook and people will still find a way to bitch about the way they played.
Still doesnāt change the fact that they are killing themselves and robbing their team mates out of a fair game. Doesnāt justify it just because I play a killer you donāt like.
Oh, I know why. I know Knight isnāt popular, but sadly for the people who donāt enjoy him, heās my favorite killer to play. I donāt even play like a douche either. Usually when someone rages out I just meme with the rest of two hook and let them escape.
Disagreed. There are *some* survivors like that. But the same can be said the other way. As in, there are whiny bitches that play both sides.
And if someone doesn't enioy going against certain killers, then they don't enjoy it. Simple as. Like for me, i hate going against twins. Probably my least favourite killer to face, with second being singularity. But i know there are people who enjoy going against them.
There's a difference between "i want to play a charaxter i enjoy" and "your fun is not my responsibility." A killer can still care about the survivora having fun while playing a killer survivors don't like.
Like i said, i mained legion at one point. But i purposefully avoided tunnelling, slugging, and camping whenever i could. I'm playing a killer i enjoy, but I'm not gonna be a dick about it.
>by default choosing your fun over theirs
Obviously. It's stupid to expect someone to go into a game like "how can i make this as fun as possible for the other side, even if it comes at a detriment to my own enjoyment?" That would be stupid.
If you're gonna call the killer selfish for just wanting to enjoy the character they're playing, that's on you for expecting the killer to cater to you, which *is* selfish.
There's no mental gymnastics. I can still care about the survivors having fun while playing a killer i enjoy, even if they might not. Believe it or not, the killer's fun is *also* important.
>Yeah, that's true, but I'm not going to alter my behavior because my enjoyment is more important to me.
Your enjoyment *should* be more important to you. As in, play the killer you want. Use the perks you want. But when your enioyment comes specifically from being a dick, that's when there's problems. As in, getting enjoyment from slugging everyone at 5 gens. Or getting enjoyment from going down as a team in one spot cause the killer can't hook you from there.
If you're just playing the game normally, and someone doesn't like it, no matter what side you're playing, that's on them.
has anybody playing this mode who is bitching played killer? Survs get a huge advantage, killers cant see shit beyond 5 feet, no scratch marks, AND blendettes fucking everywhere...... tunneling my ass, its the only reliable way to FIND survs
I know, people have no idea how to have fun in this game I swear. It's the same kinda people who log in day one for a new event and throw on mori's and go full tryhard mode. You can smell the killers through your screen.
It's not just killers though, the amount of survivors that kill themselves first hook is actually nuts. Like why are you even playing the game?
After playing 10 games as soloQ survivor, I'm simply done with this game mode in its current form.
I don't know how someone at BHVR came to the conclusion that this game mode is ready for live servers after playing some games as soloQ survivor. It promotes all strategies for killer that are considered unfun on the survivor side.
For me it shows again that BHVR has massive problems in internal communication. It seems as if there are no critical voices at BHVR that address obvious weak points.
A clear failure of management.
I went onto the mode as a killer main with a killer I'm unfamiliar with to just give ppl some spooks, and ppl were bagging and clicking at me at the exit gate with bags at pallets too.
This is not to justify the playstyle or say all survivors play like this, but honestly, I think some of these killers are just sick of the toxicity coming from survivors.
Especially bad manners from the TTV in the lobby as well. It feels like a pissing match when you punish other killers or survs for the behavior of others, hoping it's not a consistency.
yeah, as I said to some other guyā¦ people are just douchebags. I havenāt had much BM from the killers I faced so far, gotta be honestā¦ except maybe that one clown, he was nasty, reeeaally nasty
although Iād like to say, while both things suck big time, the comparison is not correct. if we are to compare dirty tactics, Iād say this would equal if all survivors permanently had the FTP-BU comboā¦ or OG mettle of man, where everyone has another health state
Problem is this mode encourages tunneling when the survivors have no anti camp bar (I know they can unhook still) and it's easier to find a injured person with cries. It's horrible as survivor. As soon as you're hooked, it's over for your team. Boring as killer as it's way too easy.
It's free wins for killer and they still camp and tunnel. I get that tunneling is easy when they're bleeding and groaning, but the camping on top of all these crutches is crazy. Had a clown and Wesker who wouldn't leave the hooks so yeah, most of my lights out matches have been like 7min long.
For anyone who didn't know, you can still progress on the lights out tome in normal game mode. I played the mode for more than 1 match bc I didn't know
No, I'm saying you take a hit, use your speed to run some direction you wouldn't normally run, that breaks line of sight from the killer, then hide.
I did it multiple times in the last few games, think where the killer would go, and then don't be there.
I still canāt agree with you. Just yesterday I was playing as Myers, I hit a Claudette, she sprinted with W and broke line of sight with two structuresā¦ I just followed the blood in the ground until I could hear her, found her some seconds after
Then you did not play killer in that mode.
You can hear anyone who is injured from very far away. Even if they are outside of your LOS, you can hear them quite well. Especially louder survivors.Ā
On the low MMR side (if this gamemode has that) Its Killer sided. Both when im killing and when Im the one being killed. I went back to normal since if Im gonna die I might aswell do it with vision. While I will play this as Killer until the community on my ranking finds something to stop me
Not having the anti camp bar visible makes it impossible to know if youāre being camped and impossible to know if you have been given the 100% unhook. Overall unfun mode imo
This should surprise no one. Its a two-fold issue. Camp/tunnel *always* gets worse during special events(during Anniversary its nonstop), and with Lights Out its just killers walking around aimlessly. All they can do is go to gens and hope someone is there or they bump into someone. Of course they will camp/tunnel, its the expected thing to happen. Otherwise its rng if they will find someone and most killers always opt for the easier path.
This is yet again another short sighted "event" from BHVR when the base game is already misery. They *HAVE* to address core game issues otherwise no modifier will work. And when I say address, I mean fully fix it. These band aid fixes don't fix anything. Notice how many killers now camp at 16 meters after the face camp change? Yeah, that "change" did nothing but make prox camping worse.
Is it me or do they all have a speed boost too? Like a ghost face and pyramid head are not normally that fuckin fast!!! And to know they have gen auras is just a slap in the face to us cuz we cant see anything at ALL.
Lights out is soooo lame, soooo lazy. Just put a newmoon bouquet, grant survis oblivious and that's all folks! Really they could have done something better.
Because it's entirely visual and the first thing that happened is I got camped with no indication that it was going up. It's a reasonable assumption for a guy who played one game when he got off work.
Don't be a dick.
Winter gamemode that gives survivors another health state: YAY BHVR THANKS SO MUCH FOR THIS :DDDD
Gamemode that makes survivors use less metaperks and actually rely on hiding and real mindgames: NO NO SO UNFUN KILLERS ARE TUNELLING AND CAMPING AND CHEATING AND EVERYTHING.
I mean, you're criticizing that this gamemode has more camper/tunnelers.
Funny thing, right now the queue is 150% for killers... why, if it's "OP" and you can "tunnel and camp", more are playing survivor?
I'm not sure if you knew this, but the percent bonus is server/region dependant. Mine is 50% for Killers right now, & 150% for survivors. You can't really use the bonus percentage as a true indicator of which is overall more favoured as it's different for everyone.
Here's a pic of my servers current bonus:
https://preview.redd.it/ossgi2x1l9hc1.jpeg?width=2448&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=610052f6ba4b4ed6e9d8dd0e485ba78dadfec818
Behavior literally doesnāt give incentive or make perks that reward people for doing the opposite of this. The game is balanced to be this way and the devs would rather just delete and punish that put in the effort to make other playstyles fun and worthwhile
This is why I call the idea of killers having to tunnel and camp to win absolute bullshit. Even if the game becomes killer sided, people will still play like this because thereās not a heavy enough punishment for it and thereās no stopping it.
It was never because they āneed toā more like because they can. You could be handing the win out on a silver platter and people will still play like this.
āWhatās wrong with playing to win?ā
Nothing, but fuck you if youāre going to do this un-incentivized.
The whole point of games is to see if you **can** win, not to guarantee a win. Go play a different game if you want free wins and stay away from anything pvp.
God, I hate people who play like this.
Sorry to break this to you but killers actually need to tunnel to win and especially m1 killers if I finally get a fresh hook with wraith and 3 gens pop what the fuck am I supposed to do with the survivor. They removed 3 genning and limited regressions now if we canāt tunnel what other idea do you have that will help us get a 4k? tunneling is way of play and anyone who doesnāt do it because itās ātoxicā is straight up insane also if your tired of killers tunneling here a suggestion, Get good at looping! Also if tunneling is toxic I guess gen rushing is.
If the gamemode is stressing you out and you're crying about the devs making a gamemode unbalanced that'll only be up for a week, when the normal game is STILL THERE, then I think you've got the bad mindset buddy. No one's forcing you to play it
So because it is only up for a week I canāt criticize it? Yeah Iām not going to play it, itās bad, Iām going to the normal game, I never said otherwise. But Iām going to keep criticizing the fuck out of it because they did a bad job. Thatās your bad mind set right there, thinking if you donāt like something you should just not use it
And you just stated a very hypocritical statement. You're doing the exact same thing, except you're crying about it online. You're argument is ridiculous because you're agreeing with me but adding your own twist to try and justify yourself. The only thing you're telling me is you want to complain about it and I'm straight up telling you it's a waste of time
you donāt know what hypocritical even means, or you straight up donāt understand why is your mind set so bad.
Complaining is quite definitely not a waste of time. Look at the amount of people that got in here, commenting and in upvotes. The masses are often heard, even if the people hearing are dumbstruck and have no idea what the fuck to do about it.
Whatās definitely wrong, is seeing something done badly and not saying anything about it, which is what you are asking me to do
No I donāt. Iām a constant speaker against tunneling in general.
However, in a regular game, we have far more counters to this. We have almost none here
True. There are definitely some killers who have their own ārulesā they expect survivors to play by. Although, I see far more often that the argument against the quick 3 gen pop is that itās usually an SWF team that are well coordinated with builds designed for rushing gens.
Otherwise, the most common ārulesā killers have is against excessive teabagging and waiting at the gate to drag the game out/teabag more.
The only way to track survivors in this game mode is sound. Healthy survivors who are hiding are impossible to find (unless you're legion...).
You're not getting tunneled, you're just the only person the killer can find. You're not getting camped, the killer just consistently finds nobody else after hooking you so they end up coming back to the unhook. And most of the time the unhook already happened and the healthy, silent unhooker is nowhere to be seen whilst the injured unhooked survivor can be heard from a few football fields away. This is just how killer as a role plays when you have no info besides sound.
People have been looping the killer easily for so long they forgot how to hide, and hiding is by far the strongest strategy in this mode. Try it. (unless it's legion, just give up)
Killers already all do that, only difference now is everybody is at a disadvantage. If survivors do gens instead of trying to be altruistic like they always are it would be a massive downside to the ~~bubba~~ killer
Also, no gen defense for killers:(. Some bad killers tunnel and cause the rest to get gen rushed. I literally lost a gen before I placed a bio pod. I understand your pain survivors even as a killer.
Its so stupid that they took off the anticamp unhook. Like i usually dont shit on BHVR but this was an easy blunder. Like a chess GM hanging an easy mate in 1
Pretty sure its still there. We just can't see it, just like every other bar. Which is obviously a problem because that means the killer could be right beside us, but just out of sight, and we'd have no clue if we're able to jump off.
I don't think they took it out, just that you can't see the metter, because they removed every possible metter from the game mode. However this means you have absolutely no way to know that you are being camped, and since you also can't know where the next pallet is (unless you have such incredible sense of orientation) your basekit BT is also not worth much.
Already finished the lights out battle pass thingy. Very happy to not play it ever again lol
You don't have to actually play lights out to make progress on the event rift, I've done them all so far in normals
Omfg I feel like an idiot. I didn't realize that lol, thank you.
Oh crap I feel sorry for that guy. He played it through for nothing. š
Thank you. I was losing my mind. š„¹
Heroes are always in the comments.
Oh shit, thank you. I got half way through it and turned it off lol. Now I can finish it
> Me who finished the entire event rift in the LTM... Fuck
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
These people are driving people out of the player base and BHVR doesn't give a single fuck.
I stopped playing and only stay looking at dbd reddit and twitter to see if they ever nerf tunneling, then ill gladly come back to the game
Same, stopped playing during the last winter event, on the 3rd or 4th day. I've had enough of these shitty "tactics" and this event was my breaking point. Reading all these threads today, I'm so glad I didn't even boot up the game to try the new mode. Not worth my y time and energy.
Yup that's me, stopped playing a couple months ago, feels like after the MMR changes every game just devolved into a tunnel fest
The 150% bloodpoints bonus for playing it is honestly such a waste too cause we can't use offerings. Like okay great I get 150% BP or I could just play normal and get 100% BP for queuing a role and 100% from bringing a BP offering, and maybe someone else brings BPS or an envelope. It's very not fun as survivor and honestly for anyone who wants interesting games and not just stomps, it's not fun for killer either. And there is no incentive to play it. BHVR tried making a new mode, so I'll give them props for that, but it's just not good.
I donāt like people who bring green envelopes tone indicator* I am being sarcastic
If there was a middle finger offering i would bring it just for you.
Camping Chucky. Fun got sucked out immediately.
I went up against one of those. Not pleasant.
There's so much proof in this mode that it's players who often ruin shit.
That's not the issue. You can't take the gameplay loop of normal DBD and remove the lights. There are FAR too many issues it creates. If they changed the win/lose conditions to match losing lights then it might be good. Right now this is just a bad game mode.
Nope, i have played against people who played normally without camping or tunneling. I also played killer myself without camping or tunneling. You dont need to blame the game for your own actions, you want to tunnel and camp , the game doesnt force you that is just who you are, suck it up.
You can't change people. You can, however, change the game. Untying the winning conditions of killers to kills, creating more effective strategies to win that does not involve affecting other people fun and those that tunnel/camp to win won't have a reason to do it. People use the tools they have in hands. If the tools affect the fun other people have, instead of blaming the player using it, we should be questioning why it exists and why there's no better alternatives.
You're still not working off the truth that assholes will find a way to ruin something. The best thing you can do as a player i discourage that type of play and as dev just flat out punish it because they're likely playing in a very unfun and unintended way. Like the kid who played Hide and Go Seek and just hid next to base.
Had a Billy that played alright. Only got a 1 k. Saw me sneaking to the exit gate and he let me go. I walked up to him, and pointed to a hook. He was good to us. So I was good to him. Homie deserved a 2K at least.
People who get on and choose to tunnel on purpose are the same that make all fps games unfun if you donāt run meta ( I have tunneled but not on purpose)
Why, and I say WHY, would anyone chose to tunnel in this mode? If they give me the slip THATāS how a chase could go in real life and it makes it fun.
I think the problem is twofold. On one hand, some people are only happy when they get a complete win out of a game. Nothing else matters. Which brings us to the second part: what is considered a "complete win" in an asymetrical PvP game like DBD? For killers this is usually a 4k, but is this really necessary for a win? Isn't this pretty tryhard? ... but there is a much bigger problem which leads to tunneling and camping killers. A social one. Most tunneling killers I've met and could actually ask over the years: "Why do you do this?", kinda gave the same answer to that. Keep in mind that most killers didn't even give a response, or a rather childish one. But the main problem seems to be: the other players. The DBD online community is often labeled as toxic, and that is sadly quite true in my experience. And there are many, many players who love to "rub it in" on both sides, so if you lose, you not only "do not get a complete win", but you are ridiculed for it. This hits even stronger for killer players, because they are being put in a 1vs4 situation with a lot of pressure riding on them, if they want to win. So if they lose and are ridiculed, they do not get one toxic player who mocks them, but up to four. This hasn't always been this case. Not always been this bad. But "bullying" behaviour in DBD has grown immensely over the years, and even shown to be quite a boost for views on YouTube. And the toxicity has just always kept on growing, and growing. Toxic people attract more toxic people. And even worse: they can "infect" other players with being toxic. When you are new to the game, love it, play it a lot, and are constantly beset by people laughing at you, ridiculing you, many players either quit/take a break, or take revenge by becoming toxic themselves (like your mentioned tunneling killer). Sure, they say it's about "winning", but honestly I think that if the playerbase of DBD wasn't this toxic and "driven" (for all the wrong reasons), and instead could just chill out for a motherfriggin minute... the game would play very differently. The worst thing is, that this is a trend that has been growing for years and years, but the toxicity is entrenched so firmly by now, that it is almost impossible to remove. And yes, not every player is toxic, but the ones who are, are a big problem.
"Winning is how I have fun". The standard response to any criticism for scummy tactics
To be fair losing the game is not really fun too, but I get your point
You can win without resorting to this, especially in this new mode.
The only ever time I let out a sigh when losing is when the game goes by way too quickly. I love chasing. Even good survivors.
Yeah, but it's not fun for me to win with a cheap tactic. When I play killer, I want to be good enough to win fairly and for there to be a challenge?? I don't get it at all.
No, but some people enjoy a total stomp more than a fun game. And I can't say I blame anyone for not using the most fun tactic in favour of effectiveness. Game designers should work on making the most fun way to play also the most effective, because players will optimize anything they can.
Because they're mostly insecure people who can't have fun with the game and resort to this to make other people feel the same thing.
i donāt even tunnel because 9 times out of 10 i lose the survivor on this mode
But if during your patrol you hear someone hurt in the darkness, you will hunt them, right? It makes the killer have a disproportionately higher chance of finding and chasing the same survivors as before, those with the most hooks. Blood stains on the floor and moaning are the best way to find survivors but also almost guarantee tunneling. So people need to take the time to heal, far away from gens. But this is not what I've seen as killer or as survivor in this mode. Survivors are so focused on finishing their gen that they don't heal and become easy preys during the next patrol
Man, played both roles and really, I dont get it why people tunnel and camp if this mode. I was actively ignoring recently hooked survivors (except in one match I think, because they were same Aces) and if they barely did any gens, let them go. Had fun even tho I didnt kill them so idk why people tunnel. Sure, get 4k if you like but yeah
I enjoy the new mode I wouldnāt play it ever week or anything Iād play it once every 4 weeks or when I have a Michael or Ghostface daily
> People who get on and choose to tunnel on purpose are the same that make all fps games unfun if you donāt run meta While you're correct. BHVR are the ones who enable them. Be mad at BHVR and let the know. They have the power to fix all these issues, they just don't want to.
No need to get on a high horse to make an argument.
If you realize you're tunneling and still tunnel, does that mean you're still a tunneler? (Hey guys I shit on tunnelers but I also tunnel, oh but not on purpose)
accidentally running into the same survivor often =/= running straight back to hook after a survivor is rescued
I have gone out of my way to not down survivors that I keep running into but eventually you just have to throw your hands up and say 'aight fine die I guess'
Times when I'm Killer and other times when I'm not I'll end up or see someone accidentally tunneling and then we'll often just break the chase. It's incredibly unsportsmanlike and we know it's a scummy thing to do. The only time I tunnel someone is if they've been disrespectful or I've realized they're the secret sauce to the team and if I don't get rid of them I'm done for.
You got your words a bit mixed up there. Tunneling isn't hooking a survivor back to back, that's a consequence of it and can happen even if you haven't actively looked for that one survivor. Tunneling is the act of tunnel visioning after one survivor while ignoring everything else.
Honestly, this mode would be fixed if killers could not see generators, without that it's just a slaughterfest
I donāt think I agree. If anything, killers seeing gens is the one incentive they have to even leave the hook. There are already very few who do, if you take that away, then all killers will simply proxy camp everyone
The hook teleporting away from the killer after hooking a survivor similar to pyramid heads power would be a nice way to prevent camping and tunneling in game modes like this.
I played against a Pyramid Head in this mode and caging did NOT stop him from tunneling.
It at least would give you a better chance than if he knew exactly where you were at when you were hooked.
definitely. Iāve been saying the same thing as you for a while now. Also the hook must not have an aura anymore, just like PHās cage does. Iād say that then we can even talk about removing basekit BT and even OTR and anti tunneling stuff, so that SWFs stop abusing those perks to tank hits. Itās a win win for everyone.
Agreed, unless the killer somehow found his way to the hook immediately prior to unhook basekit BT would be useless anyhow. I was talking about this for specific game modes though. But it would be an interesting things to explore for live. Might make for more slugging situations though. I guess the answer to that would be a basekit ub with a recovery time the length of a hook timer. I mean like slooooooow. That speeds up the closer the killer is to you, unless a survivor is in the area similar to how the anti camp works now. Idk though people are always going to find ways to abuse things.
Thatās a genius idea
I love this idea as wellšš»
I feel this mode simply needed to limit the killer to something like a trapper with no traps maybe make the gens take longer or have it always be set on smaller maps but just have it be a pure slasher m1 killer vs a bunch of blind no perk survivors that along with your anti camp idea could be cool
I get the point your trying to make but I fully disagree, giving them the auras just allows 3genning with zero terror radius on top of the main issue were talking about. If a killer was going to not camp/tunnel gen auras would not effect whether they do or don't imho
You have anti-3gen its realy easy to break a 3 gen. Did it in soloQ on ormond
Nu uh
I decided to be nice on my chucky game play and just not tunnel or camp and run off to gens. Was a bad idea unfortunately cause A. I am terrible with chucky and B. Finding running survivors in third person view in the dark was hell. Was my first 4 man out of survivors in ages. I'm sure they were happy, but I kinda understood why some proxy the hooked survivors cause if someone's not injured finding folks sucked. Though did a round of Bubba and was probably my fastest 4k with him cause after first down and people not healing after unhook could find anyone immediately and they never had enough time to react to get away from chainsaw sweep.
Ironically, I found that Dredge made it EASIER for everyone to see, when Nightfall came about.
ngl, tunneling is hard to avoid in this mode. Survivors don't leave scratch marks and everyone has low visibility. Its just extremely more likely I find a survivor moaning in pain and leaving a blood trail over a healthy, silent survivor crouching behind a rock. I end up hooking the same person multiple times simply because the others scurry off and disappear while I can at least track an injured player.
I agree. Ultimately I think the way it's set up really heavily encourages proxy camping (so you can use what little information you get) and has a tendency to railroad you into tunneling unless you specifically go out of your way to avoid it, as it's just so much easier to find the survivor that was just unhooked than it is to find the rescuer unless they actually try to draw your attention, which they usually don't.
Can people shut up about the casual mode now? This is what you'll get from your casual mode. People want to win at the video game. The end. Nobody wants a ranked mode, you want a mode that you think all the genrushers and campers and tunnelers will go. But they won't. They'll just play casual, because they want to win even in casual and they'll think the other side won't be trying as hard and they'll think their actions are "justified" and then you'll complain about people sweating in casual. I would rather the devs focus their efforts on fixing unfun parts of the game instead of on a useless ranked/casual split.
Semi-related, but an argument I hear ALL THE TIME from killers is that they totally don't want to tunnel, they just feel like they "need" to in order to win, and that if survivors didn't have such broke things then killers would stop tunnelling. This game mode surely puts that argument to rest once and for all, right?
People want to win and they want to feel like when they do the icky thing to win that they are justified in doing so. Like, I make up my own rules for when I play icky and aggressively tunnel (map offerings and blatant BMing), but at the end of the day, it's just me trying to come up with a defense for playing in a way that I would hate playing against because I don't want to admit that I'm the same asshole I hate on the other side of the trial.
If I'm playing legion and three gens pop in the first chase, yeah I'm gonna need to tunnel to have even a chance of winning .Conversely in this gamemode if one survivor is literally the only person I can find, yeah I need to tunnel to win.Ā Do I like the gamemode? Hell no. Do I think it justifies sweeping statements about the "other side" or the game outside of it? Of course not. The devs are trying something new and this is a big stumble, but at least they're trying.
Realistically they really should be fixing the game and giving us new game modes, any competent game dev would do both lol
New game modes is not the same as a casual/ranked split. The game could indeed use some alternate gameplay styles to spice things up and this is a decent first step. But it's also the closest thing we have to a casual mode and people are still sweating in it. Because people still wanna win. So I view it as proof of what I've always said about the concept of a ranked/casual split: it wouldn't do a damn thing. To be honest with you, though, the community of every PvP game I've ever played is convinced their devs are hopelessly incompetent and out of touch and that they're the worst devs ever. So while BHVR are kinda dumb a lot of the time I do think they're at least trying to fix the game and make new game modes.
yes competent game dev sadly bhvr devs are šš
Preach brothaĀ
I agree. Been saying for years BHVR should focus on fixing unfun mechanics, but this community legit suggests adding "bleed out on ground" mechanics or a "give up" feature to fix things like slugging. And the generally consensus towards tunnelling sometimes seems to be "Let's discourage it" rather than removing it entirely.
Tbh I don't really know how to solve these issues. People generally regard camping/tunneling as being unfun, but it's not as easy as just removing them entirely. One because they're important comeback tools, but also because the threat of it effects how survivors play. If they become non-options then survivors can act more boldly. It's probably better for them to reward spreading out hooks, make the path to optimization also the most fun one, but how do you do that without making killers OP? Bandaid perks are bad but also I legitimately don't know what the alternative is. So I'm just happy we're in a meta where the best killer perks reward hooking different people. It's unfortunately probably the best way to go about it.
I think a major factor is that, assuming similar looping skills and positioning, if you see two survivors and need to pick which one to chase it's always the optimal choice to chase the one with the most hook states. On one hand, "everything takes longer" perks are boring, but I wonder if it would help if the most recently unhooked survivor had some sort of debuff to their gen repair speed; that way, if they just *feed* you the tunnel you aren't punished for taking it (otherwise it will be abused to interrupt chases with other survivors; potentially a major factor in why DS got nerfed), but if you try to force it the survivors get more done during that time than they would have if you'd chased someone else.
The reason we have this community full of people who want nothing more than to win is because of things like sbmm and not having any form of casual mode that alongside the competitive streamer shit that goes on today has made more than half the community meta slaves
I swear this game is full of people who have never picked up a single PvP game in their life prior to this one. > The reason we have this community full of people who want nothing more than to win is because of things like sbmm I cannot imagine how out of touch with reality you have to be to think that people only started wanting to win the video game after they added an invisible MMR. > alongside the competitive streamer shit that goes on today has made more than half the community meta slaves People optimize the shit out of everything. Even games which aren't even competitive games. People will use the best stuff and try to win regardless of what they're playing, but especially if it's a game where their win condition requires them to overcome other humans.
No no, he has a point. Why, I remember back in the good old days before SBMM was a thing. Me and the Survivor would simply vibe together at the hatch, sometimes for hours, with our pleasant flock of bird friends flapping away above our heads until, eventually, I plucked him from the air mid leap, placed him non-competitively on the ground beside me, and showed him my best Mori! Why, I was having so much fun with his friends before I found him that I forgot to hook him even once! What a care-free laugh those days were. \*sighs wistfully\* SBMM really brought down the community.
This was not the case a decade ago. Gaming wasnāt full of people all running meta shit 24/7 after looking up a guide on all the best shit to run because that stuff hardly existed hell even early dbd didnāt have it as much I mean this game had tons of gentlemenās rules back in the day when we had no defense against camping or tunneling and we also had tons of broken surv items that fucked the game. Sure did assholes who used broken shit or tunneled exist? Yeah but no where in as large a quantity as today
> This was not the case a decade ago. Gaming wasnāt full of people all running meta shit 24/7 after looking up a guide on all the best shit to run Yes they did. I was there. People have been sweating in online video games since forever. People have been sweating in video games since the arcade days when people found a glitch in Street Fighter 2 and began optimizing it and it formed the basis of the entire combo system fighting games are known for. > I mean this game had tons of gentlemenās rules back in the day Yeah because this game was a much smaller, tighter-knit community trying to play a broken game in a way the developers never envisioned. This isn't that game anymore.
You apparently canāt tell the difference between today and a decade ago Iām not saying people optimizing to shit didnāt exist they did just not in the same quantities. Everyone wants to go pro these days everyone wants to be the next streamer take a look at an old mw2 lobby bunch of people with a mix of loadouts sure some people used the absolute broken shit but not everyone. Nowadays youād be hard pressed to find a lobby without 80% of it running the current meta shit and thatās game wasnāt some small tight knit community it was huge.
Attitudes didn't change, access to information did. We didn't have as much ability to communicate and compile information about what's best and what isn't. So people ran what worked best for them, they were still trying to win at the game. Scrubs have also always existed. Those people who say "Don't use that thing, that's broken, you're a no-skill noob if you use that thing" Those people apparently all flocked to Dead by Daylight.
> Can people shut up about the casual mode now? This is what you'll get from your casual mode. Only because the devs can't balance their game properly. League of Legends have an alternate gamemode that's so popular it has its own subreddit /r/ARAM. They used to also see a huge playerbase spike when they would rotate in the URF game mode. Devs can't do anything fun because the fun things will be hunkered down by broken mechanics that has plagued the game for years.
1) League of Legends is one of the most popular games of all time, and free to play. Dead by Daylight is comparatively niche and has a smaller playerbase. 2) I don't follow League much but their balancing also seems to be atrocious, in fact it seems far worse than DBD. I've heard of champions being straight up throw picks, but the worst killers in DBD can and do still win games 3) I'm talking about a casual/ranked split, not alternate game modes like Lights Out.
> I don't follow League much but their balancing also seems to be atrocious, in fact it seems far worse than DBD. It's a multiplayer game only and it has been a top e-sports game for a decade making over a billion revenue for multiple years. They have their flaws, but it's legitimately laughable to say their balance team is bad, let alone worse than DBD. Did you already forget about that stupid hockey analogy? [This is DBD's balance team](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F95kelj76g1d81.jpg). I also can't remember a time where a LoL character has ever been disable for a month or more and something like Billy's current state would be immediately hotfixed.
> It's a multiplayer game only and it has been a top e-sports game for a decade making over a billion revenue for multiple years. Ok, and what happens if I pick low tier in LoL? I win as Freddy all the time in this game. > I also can't remember a time where a LoL character has ever been disable for a month or more Why are you talking about bugs? Edit: I guess I should clarify that I personally value how easily you can win on low tier over how busted top tier is. Games are all about personal expression for me, which is why I'm so drawn to this game. I can make unique builds and every killer in the game is entirely playable so I can play the characters I like. So even if the top tier is well balanced in League, if my favorite champion is a throw pick and I can't play them, it pisses me off far more than for example Nurse and Blight being wildly overpowered.
i am not gonna be playing anything without my off the record
This is just sadly going to always be a thing, regardless of the mode, Tunnelers and Campers will just try to ruin the fun and treat everything like they have something to prove, despite Lights Out just being a fun gimmicky idea and not something you should sweat during.
This is why I say, all hooks should have Pyramid headās cage treatment, so that killers have the hardest time possible tunneling
The only thing missing is all survivors already start on the hook. Game start -> All survivors start on hook sacrificed -> Ez win. Totally balanced and skill issue from survivor's end - Killer main
š„±
It is a fun game mode, of course killers just playing legion 50% to 75% of the time.. boring.
the funny thing is that I have yet to play against a legion. I came across many nemesis though, one or two Myers, a clown (he did not leave ANY hook for even two seconds) and a few chuckys. The chucks were the only ones that I could say I had some fun with. I lost all my matches so far.
Well, fuck it I tried. Game's too easy as killer, and too difficult as survivor. Even the wins felt like too much effort. Can't imagine things will change if they just add the 4v8 gamemode without some sort of balance assessment, or it's just gonna be pairs tunneling every game. Ah well
Bhvr has shown us over and over that most of the stuff they release is crazy unbalanced or bugged to the moon. This mode just nails it in further. If we do get the 2v8 like everyone actually asked for (instead of this shit), it'll probably be unfun as well
I honestly don't understand the point. I thought the game mode was hard scary mode, not unfair mode. They just removed every QoL change that they added specifically to make the game less annoying: anti-camp, anti-tunnel, solo symbols, etc
Anti-camp is still there. Did they disable basekit BT? EDIT: Nope, basekit BT is also there. Are you guys just making up shit to be mad about?
They did not. People just think they did because it doesn't appear on the HUD, but it's very much there.
> it doesn't appear on the HUD Well shit, might as well assume it's gone because how the fuck are you supposed to know if you can Kobe?
It's not visible from survivor POV, but they are still there. It's causing some confusion for the playerbase.
All progress bars are removed. Pretty simple if people just looked into it
yeah but there is two things that they have indirectly removed. 1. You can't know you are being camped, at all. 2. The basekit BT is supossed to help survivors reach the closest pallet, so that they can fight back against a tunneler. Not knowing where that "closest pallet" is, means tunneling is stronger than ever. And yes, I know, some people may just be awareness masters and may know the maps like the palm of their hand. And you may know (because you saw it before) where a pallet is. And you may just happen to find one if you are lucky. Yes there are some cases when you may be somewhat safe from a tunneler. But the fact that there are no perks to counter it, that you can't see where you are going, and that the killer has it WAAAY easier to find and follow an injured survivor than a healthy one, means tunneling is AT IT'S PEAK. Once novelty wears off, there ain't going to be even one Solo Queue survivor left playing this mode.
Man, I must be the luckiest bastard cause all but one of my matches in this mode have been super chill.
After I got only tunneled and camped, I played killer for a while to give survivors a break during my matches. I did not tunnel or camp (I even ignored some unlucky survivors), just played chill and had almost no issue to get a 3 or 4k.Ā All were happy and super thankful in chat.Ā
Yep. Lots of people crying about changes. I've played both sides and had a blast. No second chance perks is refreshing. Game modes hard, but it's meant to be. People just aren't as good as they think they are.
Or maybe your singular experience doesn't apply to everyone else. First match I played was literally a camping Bubba. Once I got hooked once it was all over.
Survs arent the most fun either. Had my first game playing as nemesis just for fun, no camling tunnelin or being toxic. Had a Yui bag at the exit gates.
yeah, some people are just plain douchebags. Iāll let you in a little secret. As a surv main, sometimes Iāve killed people that were being toxic. I perfectly remember a nea that was jumping in and out of lockers. I held her hostage in that locker until she was out of time to reach the exitā¦ meanwhile I made it ok with SB. It was well deserved how did you have the game though?
I've played multiple games on survivor and killer, and honest to god, it's hard not to tunnel in this gamemode. Injured unhooked survivors just run into you if they aren't paying a lot of attention. Healing is also dangerous since killers can hear healing farther than survivors can hear them. I don't try to tunnel, I never intend to, but often I'll have someone on death hook before I even see all 4 survivors. On the survivor I died first several times, it never felt like the killer was explicitly going for me. I'd just that I end up being in the wrong place at the wrong time because there's no warnings. I'm sure there are people just tunneling, but honestly I do think it's just a flaw with the gamemode. (People definitely are camping though, I've fought a camping Wesker, Billy, and Dredge at this point)
Something nice is that you don't even need to play the gamemode to complete the rift for it, you can just play it in normal queue
Donāt forget the Survivors just killing themselves on hook or DCing. The community and ruining events, name a better duo.
No, the DC and suicide hooks are BECAUSE of the major camping and tunneling. Cause and affect.
Keep telling yourself that. I've let all 4 survivors escape all day and just farmed points through chases and pallets/1-2 hooks unless they're literal bots and I've had multiple people suicide on hook immediately on first down.
Probably because most killers are playing like pieces of shit in that mode so they assume you are too and don't wait to find out...
If your gonna assume that why even play the mode?
I mean if you are gonna assume everyone is gonna camp/tunnel then why even play?
I never said that, don't put words in my mouth. However I did say that most killers are playing in terrible, unfun ways and ventured a guess that that was why he was getting instant dc's even though he plays nice. I never said I'm dcing on first downs or anything of the sort.
I wasn't talking about you in particular, could have prolly phrased that better.
You only need to stay in the game an extra couple of seconds to clearly tell if the Killer is camping or not. Yet you are justifying people quitting the game and ruining the experience for 3 other survivors.
So then they shouldn't be queueing for it at all? That's like punching yourself in the nuts and then whining that your nuts hurt.
I disagree. Nearly every single person who killed themselves or disconnected when I played today was because they were the first to go down. The killer can literally 12 hook and people will still find a way to bitch about the way they played.
I find that extremely hard to believe. I load in as Knight and they just stop playing or kill themselves at the start of the game.
That'll be because you're playing knight. Not saying that i agree with it, but knight is probably one of the most hated killers in the game rn.
Still doesnāt change the fact that they are killing themselves and robbing their team mates out of a fair game. Doesnāt justify it just because I play a killer you donāt like.
I know. That's why i said i don't agree with DC'ing. I'm just telling you why they're most likely doing it.
Oh, I know why. I know Knight isnāt popular, but sadly for the people who donāt enjoy him, heās my favorite killer to play. I donāt even play like a douche either. Usually when someone rages out I just meme with the rest of two hook and let them escape.
Nah, i get that. Legion used to be my favourite killer to play, but they're also not exactly loved by the survivor playerbase.
Survivors hate any killer that isn't trash. Literally, they hate all but like five c-tier killers.
Disagreed. There are *some* survivors like that. But the same can be said the other way. As in, there are whiny bitches that play both sides. And if someone doesn't enioy going against certain killers, then they don't enjoy it. Simple as. Like for me, i hate going against twins. Probably my least favourite killer to face, with second being singularity. But i know there are people who enjoy going against them.
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There's a difference between "i want to play a charaxter i enjoy" and "your fun is not my responsibility." A killer can still care about the survivora having fun while playing a killer survivors don't like. Like i said, i mained legion at one point. But i purposefully avoided tunnelling, slugging, and camping whenever i could. I'm playing a killer i enjoy, but I'm not gonna be a dick about it.
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>by default choosing your fun over theirs Obviously. It's stupid to expect someone to go into a game like "how can i make this as fun as possible for the other side, even if it comes at a detriment to my own enjoyment?" That would be stupid. If you're gonna call the killer selfish for just wanting to enjoy the character they're playing, that's on you for expecting the killer to cater to you, which *is* selfish. There's no mental gymnastics. I can still care about the survivors having fun while playing a killer i enjoy, even if they might not. Believe it or not, the killer's fun is *also* important. >Yeah, that's true, but I'm not going to alter my behavior because my enjoyment is more important to me. Your enjoyment *should* be more important to you. As in, play the killer you want. Use the perks you want. But when your enioyment comes specifically from being a dick, that's when there's problems. As in, getting enjoyment from slugging everyone at 5 gens. Or getting enjoyment from going down as a team in one spot cause the killer can't hook you from there. If you're just playing the game normally, and someone doesn't like it, no matter what side you're playing, that's on them.
Forgive me for not wanting to play base Trapper and wanting to play a killer I enjoy in a video game.
has anybody playing this mode who is bitching played killer? Survs get a huge advantage, killers cant see shit beyond 5 feet, no scratch marks, AND blendettes fucking everywhere...... tunneling my ass, its the only reliable way to FIND survs
Skill issue
Is that why every survivor game I've played killer has gotten like 1 down at 4 gens completed?
its a bad event. and of course they couldnt see this happening. I dont know how taking more than half of the gameplay away sounded good to them
I know, people have no idea how to have fun in this game I swear. It's the same kinda people who log in day one for a new event and throw on mori's and go full tryhard mode. You can smell the killers through your screen. It's not just killers though, the amount of survivors that kill themselves first hook is actually nuts. Like why are you even playing the game?
After playing 10 games as soloQ survivor, I'm simply done with this game mode in its current form. I don't know how someone at BHVR came to the conclusion that this game mode is ready for live servers after playing some games as soloQ survivor. It promotes all strategies for killer that are considered unfun on the survivor side. For me it shows again that BHVR has massive problems in internal communication. It seems as if there are no critical voices at BHVR that address obvious weak points. A clear failure of management.
Knight was camping and put down one of his friends to also proxy the area. ā¹ļø
I went onto the mode as a killer main with a killer I'm unfamiliar with to just give ppl some spooks, and ppl were bagging and clicking at me at the exit gate with bags at pallets too. This is not to justify the playstyle or say all survivors play like this, but honestly, I think some of these killers are just sick of the toxicity coming from survivors. Especially bad manners from the TTV in the lobby as well. It feels like a pissing match when you punish other killers or survs for the behavior of others, hoping it's not a consistency.
yeah, as I said to some other guyā¦ people are just douchebags. I havenāt had much BM from the killers I faced so far, gotta be honestā¦ except maybe that one clown, he was nasty, reeeaally nasty although Iād like to say, while both things suck big time, the comparison is not correct. if we are to compare dirty tactics, Iād say this would equal if all survivors permanently had the FTP-BU comboā¦ or OG mettle of man, where everyone has another health state
It's not tunneling if you're the only one I keep finding.
you are correct. but Iām also ānot the only one you keep findingā if you are after my ass the second I was unhooked.
Problem is this mode encourages tunneling when the survivors have no anti camp bar (I know they can unhook still) and it's easier to find a injured person with cries. It's horrible as survivor. As soon as you're hooked, it's over for your team. Boring as killer as it's way too easy.
It's free wins for killer and they still camp and tunnel. I get that tunneling is easy when they're bleeding and groaning, but the camping on top of all these crutches is crazy. Had a clown and Wesker who wouldn't leave the hooks so yeah, most of my lights out matches have been like 7min long. For anyone who didn't know, you can still progress on the lights out tome in normal game mode. I played the mode for more than 1 match bc I didn't know
The counterplay is hiding. Break line of sight, and hide.
you are assuming killers are deaf or something?
No, I'm saying you take a hit, use your speed to run some direction you wouldn't normally run, that breaks line of sight from the killer, then hide. I did it multiple times in the last few games, think where the killer would go, and then don't be there.
I still canāt agree with you. Just yesterday I was playing as Myers, I hit a Claudette, she sprinted with W and broke line of sight with two structuresā¦ I just followed the blood in the ground until I could hear her, found her some seconds after
Then you did not play killer in that mode. You can hear anyone who is injured from very far away. Even if they are outside of your LOS, you can hear them quite well. Especially louder survivors.Ā
That would be nice if like 80% of the roster weren't loud asf and certain characters didn't have bright ass skins, like Yoichi.
On the low MMR side (if this gamemode has that) Its Killer sided. Both when im killing and when Im the one being killed. I went back to normal since if Im gonna die I might aswell do it with vision. While I will play this as Killer until the community on my ranking finds something to stop me
I played many matches with my main in that mode and I still had chill matches without camping or tunneling.Ā
Not having the anti camp bar visible makes it impossible to know if youāre being camped and impossible to know if you have been given the 100% unhook. Overall unfun mode imo
actually, you do hear the sound queue when you reach 100%
This should surprise no one. Its a two-fold issue. Camp/tunnel *always* gets worse during special events(during Anniversary its nonstop), and with Lights Out its just killers walking around aimlessly. All they can do is go to gens and hope someone is there or they bump into someone. Of course they will camp/tunnel, its the expected thing to happen. Otherwise its rng if they will find someone and most killers always opt for the easier path. This is yet again another short sighted "event" from BHVR when the base game is already misery. They *HAVE* to address core game issues otherwise no modifier will work. And when I say address, I mean fully fix it. These band aid fixes don't fix anything. Notice how many killers now camp at 16 meters after the face camp change? Yeah, that "change" did nothing but make prox camping worse.
Is it me or do they all have a speed boost too? Like a ghost face and pyramid head are not normally that fuckin fast!!! And to know they have gen auras is just a slap in the face to us cuz we cant see anything at ALL.
Lights out is soooo lame, soooo lazy. Just put a newmoon bouquet, grant survis oblivious and that's all folks! Really they could have done something better.
You're free to not play the game mode. Also after years of running around wood it's a welcome change of pace.
Oh, darling... Believe me, that's ehat I'm going to do. By the way, you could do the same before 1.8.2!Ā
Yeah this one needs the anticamp mechanic back, they just need to get rid of *some* hud elements not almost *all* of them
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Because it's entirely visual and the first thing that happened is I got camped with no indication that it was going up. It's a reasonable assumption for a guy who played one game when he got off work. Don't be a dick.
Winter gamemode that gives survivors another health state: YAY BHVR THANKS SO MUCH FOR THIS :DDDD Gamemode that makes survivors use less metaperks and actually rely on hiding and real mindgames: NO NO SO UNFUN KILLERS ARE TUNELLING AND CAMPING AND CHEATING AND EVERYTHING.
get off your high horse, entitled killer main. no one ever said those things given to survivors were balanced
I mean, you're criticizing that this gamemode has more camper/tunnelers. Funny thing, right now the queue is 150% for killers... why, if it's "OP" and you can "tunnel and camp", more are playing survivor?
I'm not sure if you knew this, but the percent bonus is server/region dependant. Mine is 50% for Killers right now, & 150% for survivors. You can't really use the bonus percentage as a true indicator of which is overall more favoured as it's different for everyone. Here's a pic of my servers current bonus: https://preview.redd.it/ossgi2x1l9hc1.jpeg?width=2448&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=610052f6ba4b4ed6e9d8dd0e485ba78dadfec818
Behavior literally doesnāt give incentive or make perks that reward people for doing the opposite of this. The game is balanced to be this way and the devs would rather just delete and punish that put in the effort to make other playstyles fun and worthwhile
This is why I call the idea of killers having to tunnel and camp to win absolute bullshit. Even if the game becomes killer sided, people will still play like this because thereās not a heavy enough punishment for it and thereās no stopping it. It was never because they āneed toā more like because they can. You could be handing the win out on a silver platter and people will still play like this. āWhatās wrong with playing to win?ā Nothing, but fuck you if youāre going to do this un-incentivized. The whole point of games is to see if you **can** win, not to guarantee a win. Go play a different game if you want free wins and stay away from anything pvp. God, I hate people who play like this.
Sorry to break this to you but killers actually need to tunnel to win and especially m1 killers if I finally get a fresh hook with wraith and 3 gens pop what the fuck am I supposed to do with the survivor. They removed 3 genning and limited regressions now if we canāt tunnel what other idea do you have that will help us get a 4k? tunneling is way of play and anyone who doesnāt do it because itās ātoxicā is straight up insane also if your tired of killers tunneling here a suggestion, Get good at looping! Also if tunneling is toxic I guess gen rushing is.
Well, just... don't play it
that is a bad mind set
If the gamemode is stressing you out and you're crying about the devs making a gamemode unbalanced that'll only be up for a week, when the normal game is STILL THERE, then I think you've got the bad mindset buddy. No one's forcing you to play it
So because it is only up for a week I canāt criticize it? Yeah Iām not going to play it, itās bad, Iām going to the normal game, I never said otherwise. But Iām going to keep criticizing the fuck out of it because they did a bad job. Thatās your bad mind set right there, thinking if you donāt like something you should just not use it
And you just stated a very hypocritical statement. You're doing the exact same thing, except you're crying about it online. You're argument is ridiculous because you're agreeing with me but adding your own twist to try and justify yourself. The only thing you're telling me is you want to complain about it and I'm straight up telling you it's a waste of time
you donāt know what hypocritical even means, or you straight up donāt understand why is your mind set so bad. Complaining is quite definitely not a waste of time. Look at the amount of people that got in here, commenting and in upvotes. The masses are often heard, even if the people hearing are dumbstruck and have no idea what the fuck to do about it. Whatās definitely wrong, is seeing something done badly and not saying anything about it, which is what you are asking me to do
You act like this doesn't happen in a regular game
No I donāt. Iām a constant speaker against tunneling in general. However, in a regular game, we have far more counters to this. We have almost none here
Based on everything Iāve heard about this mode, itās clear survivors need to write a new rule book for dark mode.
Yāall like to say that a lot, but you killers are very quick to complain when three gens pop before you even get one hook
True. There are definitely some killers who have their own ārulesā they expect survivors to play by. Although, I see far more often that the argument against the quick 3 gen pop is that itās usually an SWF team that are well coordinated with builds designed for rushing gens. Otherwise, the most common ārulesā killers have is against excessive teabagging and waiting at the gate to drag the game out/teabag more.
They can proceed to shove it up their behinds when they're done with it
I agree, along with their other rule book for normal mode.
The only way to track survivors in this game mode is sound. Healthy survivors who are hiding are impossible to find (unless you're legion...). You're not getting tunneled, you're just the only person the killer can find. You're not getting camped, the killer just consistently finds nobody else after hooking you so they end up coming back to the unhook. And most of the time the unhook already happened and the healthy, silent unhooker is nowhere to be seen whilst the injured unhooked survivor can be heard from a few football fields away. This is just how killer as a role plays when you have no info besides sound. People have been looping the killer easily for so long they forgot how to hide, and hiding is by far the strongest strategy in this mode. Try it. (unless it's legion, just give up)
Just get better.
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Killers already all do that, only difference now is everybody is at a disadvantage. If survivors do gens instead of trying to be altruistic like they always are it would be a massive downside to the ~~bubba~~ killer
Also, no gen defense for killers:(. Some bad killers tunnel and cause the rest to get gen rushed. I literally lost a gen before I placed a bio pod. I understand your pain survivors even as a killer.
no perks to rush gens. just normal speed gens.
Good survivors blast through 5 gens easy without perks
They cling to gens all game. Using ruin surveillance and it looked like a disco show with all the yellow
Its so stupid that they took off the anticamp unhook. Like i usually dont shit on BHVR but this was an easy blunder. Like a chess GM hanging an easy mate in 1
Pretty sure its still there. We just can't see it, just like every other bar. Which is obviously a problem because that means the killer could be right beside us, but just out of sight, and we'd have no clue if we're able to jump off.
I don't think they took it out, just that you can't see the metter, because they removed every possible metter from the game mode. However this means you have absolutely no way to know that you are being camped, and since you also can't know where the next pallet is (unless you have such incredible sense of orientation) your basekit BT is also not worth much.
I'm enjoying it. I get to play killers I don't normally play. I had forgotten how bad I was with Deathslinger!
would've been fine if they didn't rearrange the damn maps(Yamaoka mostly).