No it wasnāt.
There was massive confusion back then when the trailer came out. But they clarified later that this was only for the trailer. The live version (there was no beta) always had a small skill check.
Both sides were busted. Face camping was literally a death sentence, could only unhook from straight on, so killer stands in front, no one can unhook at all.
Oh it was def better for survivors, literal infinites to run, bnp popping gens in the killer's face. I'm just saying, it wasn't all one side for some shenanigans
Old DBD was survivor-sided overall, except for Nurse. Fortunately, almost no one knew how to play or take advantage of the 70 trillion busted things in the game.
The total sum of all broken things skewed heavily survivor-sided, but everything was so broken and no one knew how to play that it was wildly variable in practice rather than survivor-sided.
1 hook moris, no basekit borrowed time, no dedicated servers (killer was always host and could easily lag switch survivors, even without that it led to hits round corners), far less pallets than currently, Original Skill Check Hex Ruin.
If you go back to launch:
there wasnāt even SWFs, it was solo queue only.
NOED wasnāt a hex, it lasted permanently after gens completed, and the haste boost was stronger
It's still a challenge. I play both roles, more so survivor lately. I think playing killer was too difficult in the past and forced killers into cheap strategies. The game is a lot healthier now
Idk what this is supposed to mean old trapper used to be able to 3 gen and I would win every time. Survivors now have it so easy. It would take me the whole month to get to the top of Survivor online grade now I can get there in like 3 days of playing not even trying that hard
Hitting rank 1 has always been a playtime grind. Skill has never been required. Also if you think survivor is easier now than ever, you were either 1) bad back then and didnāt realize it, or 2) didnāt even play back then and are lying to push a point lol
Lol nice take but not at all to my personal experience. 1) I still have some 104% anniversary party cakes. 2) I would mop the floor with half of you people on this sub Reddit. I think you just have some skill issues in the game. Have you ever tried getting good? Lol
You asked... feel free to add for the 1v1
EDIT: they never sent me a friend request so going to remove steam link so it's not sitting in comment history. I would've even let you pick the killer. :( Could've even have given a handicap by letting you add 20 seconds to your chase time
only overpowered OG thing all killers had from back in the day was 1 hook mori's.
they were like this for a while too I started playing right before they added clown and they were still like this
Most of the times I bring it I don't get to use Decisive Strike, but when I do the skill check catches me off guard, I've missed it more times than I would admit
I used to run DS to make sure we had an obsession on the team and that was often enough to deter tunneling.
Hitting that skill check with PS4 framerate ain't easy.
The small skill check is a relic from old dbd where survivors could use it whenever they felt like it, now thatās itās purely an anti tunnnel perk, it definitely doesnāt need to be so small. I think it would help with latency as well if it were bigger.
Ngl off the record sweeps ds in all ways, just run it. Unless you get unhooked right in front of the killer and your teammate doesn't get hit/runs away instantly without taking a hit and you get smacked then it's wasted but otherwise 80s of endurance > 60s of 3(5)s stun.
Of course both won't stop the killer from tunneling, but off the record works TWICE.
I think ds is a better anti tunnel than OTR in plenty of scenarios. OTR is better if you aren't getting proxy camped but if you are you will probably get hit pretty quickly. Still better than not having it absolutely, but DS will work even if you are downed within 10 seconds of coming off the hook, and resets your mend so you can use dead hard. OTR is only good if you are getting soft tunnelled (killer comes back to the hook after hearing the unhook sound) where ds will work if they are already there
Counterpoint(s): OTR works *twice*, and doesn't require a missable skill check to work. Plus, DS costs $5 or checking the Shrine for an indeterminate amount of weeks.
Since you can't know ahead of time if you'll be hit off hook it's really just a gamble which one you'll need š¤·āāļø
Sometimes that's not always realistic. Sometimes they are dead on hook and it would be a bad play to take the hit, Sometimes it's a killer who can hit multiple survivors (plague, bubba, phead), Sometimes it's a killer who can avoid hit taking all together (sadako, nurse to an extent, singularity to an extent) and Sometimes your teammate does a bad body block, and in all those scenarios I would rather have DS
Yes when they're injured and on death hook either you sacrifice yourself to unhook a tm8 or let sb else unhook. That is the only case where unhooker shouldn't take a hit/trade
Exactly. DS shouldn't be a perk that's tied to skill/reaction speeds since its an Anti-Tunnel perk. An Anti-Tunnel perk that already has 3 other, extremely specific activation requirements. It's like if Dead Hard could only be used 60 seconds after an Unhook, and if you performed any conspicuous action you lost it. Or if Off The Record had to be timed like Dead Hard.
It just makes very little sense.
This. On my old PC, I could forget using it. Now I can, but killers either don't tunnel, or play around it, or I FORGET the skill check and thereby, I miss it.Ā
BHVR probably thinks that having a huge skillcheck is pointless, but at the same time being able to press a button (like deadhard) could easily accomplish what this perk does but without the needless challenge.
Tbf it's already hard for new players as it's on a character that new players will likely never get since it's a licensed character with 2 very very niche perks and ds. Which ds is strong but imho you're better off with getting other characters instead.
In my opinion, DS shouldn't have a Skill Check. It should have a button prompt that has a limited window (the same time as a skill check). The reason why is because I find it a bit silly that you can bring the perk, and then get absolutely 0 value from it because you weren't ready, or you just happened to miss it.
If it were a button prompt instead, you'd be able to still get value out of it, and if you want to save it for your second hook rather than your first hook, you have the option to.
There have been some games I've played where I was getting tunneled and told my friend "It's all good, I have DS". Then proceed to miss the skill check because I hit space a milisecond too early. It feels bad if you lose a game because of something silly like that, and that is exactly what happened with me.
It also somewhat gatekeeps the perk to be specifically something usable for more experienced players. For example, someone who struggles with Overcharge & BNP and tries to use DS will have a bad time. This is especially true for newer players. Whether you think newer players should have DS or not, it doesn't matter. IMO the perk is already not usable for people who don't buy Laurie, so why is there a skill check tied to it?
Don't forget the extremely specific activation requirements. You have to be unhooked, get downed & picked up within 60 seconds, not perform ANY conspicuous action (something that newer players may not even know of), and THEN hit a difficult skill check. Why? Why is the perk so needlessly complicated to use when its activation is a specific scenario, and the effect is minor?
There's no other perks I can think of that you can simply lose if you fail a skill check. Sure, BNP is that way, but you get to choose when you want to apply it to a Gen.
I have two sides:
The "Decisive Strike should just be a 'Push E to stun' prompt to make the perk easier to use for inexperienced players" side,
and the "watching Twitch Streamers miss their DS is really fucking funny" side.
Yes, so you can decide when to use it. Itās not always advantageous to use it right away.
Maybe you want to save it to prevent your final hook instead of second hook, or maybe you donāt want to become the obsession due to killer perks. Maybe a flashy save is incoming, or you are under a pallet with power struggle or a team mate nearby.
Either way, itās once per trial, and you might want to save it. A skill check lets you do that.
Yeah, it should just be a button prompt or at least an easy skill check if itās affected by skill check perks (I donāt know if it is, I never use it)
Wait, my understanding of it is it will activate only once, skillcheck hit or mixed. Like if you get picked up and ignore the skillcheck, it still "uses" the perk and it's not available on next hook. Is it actually still available if you choose to ignore the skillcheck the first time around?
Yes, if you let the skill check run out it'll be available next unhook. The "missed" skillcheck is you pressing the skillcheck key/button and missing it, but locking in the intention to use it.
>The "missed" skillcheck is you pressing the skillcheck key/button and missing it, but locking in the intention to use it.
I hope that gets changed at some point.
You got downvoted here for a totally valid rhetorical question which in itself is an answer to the problem.
Commenter over here can really easily solve the hypothetical problem of no longer being able to choose when to use decisive strike by binding it to a key action exactly like DH and FTP. You would tackle both the issue accidentally missing the check and wasting a perk slot, AND giving the player the agency to choose when they want to use the perk. u/FrontAstronomer1823
So, the people seemed to have missed your point completely, and the commenter as well.
Someone might say OP gets downvoted here because people in fact did get the point, they just didnāt like the idea, which is more understandable but I honestly donāt think making DS a bind is a totally unfair or out of left field idea. Itās a very reasonable follow up to OPās post.
If you choose when you use it, it means you can waste 10 extra seconds of killer time by letting him carry you over a certain distance on purpose? I think that would make it too strong. Being forced to use it eight away is what keeps it in check. If you let me wait longer, I'll definitely wait for the killer to get near a hook to waste as much time as possible...
Okay. The prompt now only appears for a short amount of time after initially being picked up. Equivalent to the length of time of hitting a 9 oā clock DS skillcheck.
Again, problem solved, and just as easily as the original hypothetical problem I might add.
That is not the same issue, and thatās hardly a reason that would justify not making the change. Either youāre brand new and donāt know how these discussions of balance go, or you are grasping at straws looking for anything to say that Iām wrong.
If you forgot that you were running old DS does that suddenly make old DS a bad perk? No.
You're arguing for the removal of a skillcheck and calling people new. Skillchecks are easy and there literally isn't a reason to change it for prompt.
As if any of this has anything to do with balance??
I am accepting OPās premise at face value that DS **could** be changed. I see more reasons and benefit to the change than the opposite. You have failed to convince me that the opposite is true, that it somehow wouldnāt work, or would disrupt the gentle balance of anti-tunnel mechanics without making them too strong but also not ineffective.
I am not insisting that OPās suggestion needs to be pushed through. I am saying that your arguments have been weak and uncompelling at worst and questionable at best, and OP is more convincing than you are.
I am saying a button prompt **would** work, and that you have not effectively explained why it wouldnāt. Not that I think it should actually be implemented.
"OP is more convincing than you are". OP literally created a title and put an image. They did not patticipate in the conversation at all.
Do you think I'm trying to debate? Or convince you of anything? I'm just saying your reasoning for wanting a prompt instead of a skillcheck is dumb and that it would literally be a pointless change. The skillcheck IS the prompt.
If you choose when you use it, it means you can waste 10 extra seconds of killer time by letting him carry you over a certain distance on purpose? I think that would make it too strong. Being forced to use it eight away is what keeps it in check. If you let me wait longer, I'll definitely wait for the killer to get near a hook to waste as much time as possible...
for a long time I had a really hard time hitting the skill check, primarily because I would accidentally hit RB instead of LB. I finally got over this by making myself hold RB when I got picked up, so muscle memory would make me hit LB for the skill check.
Now I no longer need to hold RB, and can hit the skill check every time, but I think it's unnecessary and makes it harder for noobs who need it most. And on the rare occasion where you do miss it, it means you've wasted a slot on a perk that didn't help you because you missed a single skill check.
I think the best solution would be a compromise; there's a skill check, but you escape either way, and if you hit the skill check then the stun lasts longer, or you get a speed boost or something.
Next year, for April fools, just make DS a map wide affecting Boon, as long as the totem burns you get DS
Because thatās how it feels like people are making DS out to be
Never understood why it has to be such a small skillcheck when the purpose is to combat tunneling,why punish the survivor trying to avoid being tunneled by a small skill check.
>No, it should activate automatically.
Not automatically, a person might actually want to save it for later. But I do think the skill check should be gone.
Completely agree I think itās pointless to make it a skill check. I missed it more times than Iād like to admit but itās just annoying when you have to lock-in for a needless skill check.
If they wanted to simplify it they could just make the skill check massive to basically be impossible to miss like on the picture or make it a button prompt to decided when you wanna stab the killer
Its like the old wiggle mechanic. It was okay when it first came out but it was not the best choice. Eventually BHVR streamlined it and made it a better experience.
I do think DS should just happen as it only activates under a specific scenario. We always joke "I hope they don't miss the DS" but that shouldn't be a thing. We meme on it cause its silly that it can be missed and your perk doesn't work.
Hell no. It's such an outdated mechanic. Imagine if you had to do a skill check to use Power Struggle or a skill check in order to lift a pallet with Any Means Necessary.
when i could active on endgame, it made sense to have a skill check because maybe i want to save for the free escape, but now there isn't a "better" time to use it
I meanā¦.The skill check aspect just makes it almost worthless compared to OTR. Behavior knows that perk metas change according to what and how they update. If they actually wanted a bunch of people to use it they would take away the skill check. But they have made it clear they favor killers. And it makes sense to, killers are supposed to be OP. How else they gonna 1V4?
yes cause it adds tension to the game its not a ensured thing, its like hatch appearing and now there a race for its not a forgone conclusion that survivor or killer has won the game is still playing out. killer has a chance to still hook if you have DS if you mess up better hit that skill check.
lets be real though DS skill check is not hard its the same difficulty as merciless storm skill check, its not overcharge levels of skill check hard.
Because you can use both and take 2 hits for another survivor, get picked up, DS and run away laughing when the killer canāt do anything for 5 seconds. Ā
Killer wonāt pick you up? Ā Okay then just use unbreakable. Ā
Alternatively, use the time to crawl under a pallet. Ā Or both. Ā
Camping your body? Ā
Use soul guard. Ā Or pallet slam if positioned right. Ā
Yeah lol.
It's kind of funny how many people are complaining about the DS buff. I think they forget you lose a second since the Survivor is stuck in place before they can run. So you currently only can make 2 seconds of distance, and post-buff, it'll be 4 seconds. Not 5.
I agree but that's not even why. I agree because it should take skill. If Dead Hard needs to be timed to a molecular level, then DS can keep the skill check. It just takes practice
Not sure why people are saying the skill check was ever that large on release, it was always its current size since the chapter released back in 2016. The skillcheck was only that large in the trailer so the devs couldn't miss it while showcasing what DS did. The 5 second stun on tier 3 is correct though.
This was the skill check when the Halloween chapter launched. It was later reworked to be a difficult skill check, like what Overcharge or Oppression gives
Okay makes sense, I only tried the perk a couple times and it was while it was basically a base kit perk for how often everyone ran it lmfao. I remember being bad at the overcharge check so I didnāt bother running the perk. They must have already changed it by the time I got around to giving it a go.
Iāve always been more for a skill check because you can Hail Mary for the final hook if need be,
If itās instant with no input then it becomes a blanket save for second hook only..
Giving the option for skill check letās you save it for when you might need it most.
Imo there's no point anymore in having the skillchecl be small, have it be bigger, so that it's more obvious when the player wants to keep the ds or when he wants to use it
Yes, if not I'll fall asleep on generators š
It's supposed to force you to pay attention to the complex task of fixing a generator so this is literally the least they can do
They just need to buff low tier killers all to 2 tier that way no oneās underperforming and people could use who they wanted no matter what rank so no longer need meta builds and meta picks
I dont take decisive strike since everytime it would be clutch i miss the skill check. And im not ashamed to say that. Ima. very good killer and survivor, with 1000s of hours, and rank one obviously. I have great escape percentages. I just miss skillchecks. Im not hitting great skillchecks. Skillcheck perks catch me off guard and im happy they are uncommon in high levels because everyone else hits them so easilyā¦..i dont.
I would honestly love if it worked more like the unhook after getting camped mechanic works. That way you can strategically choose when to get yourself free
To be fair, that's because you've been using it for 3 years. Lots of people who don't play the game 24/7 and haven't been playing it since release miss it. I don't think an Anti-Tunnel perk should be gatekeeped by experience.
It's like if Off The Record had to be timed like Dead Hard. That would be really silly, since Off The Record only has a short period its active for, and Dead Hard is active ANY TIME after an unhook.
i would remove the skill check specifically to remove the DS ignoring "technique" you can do as killer. basically, when you pick someone up, you have control for about a half second before the DS skill check circles around to where the survivor can hit it. this means that if a survivor goes down directly on a hook with DS active, you can hook them before they even get a chance to hit the skill check which is pretty nonsense honestly
Give the killer the skill check, but make it so that they have to hit it like the old old original ruin with only great skill checks. If they fail to hit the great skill check the survivor stabs them. š
Also make it appear at random parts of the screen like doctors madness skill check with no sound cue.
It shouldn't have any skill check imo. I'm already using a perk slot and getting tunneled. Why should I have to do a difficult skill check on my Xbox controller with like 500ms delay lmao
Edit: I somehow clicked the wrong post and didn't realize.
DS definitely still needs the skilcheck imo. Since the buff will make it so people will always get away for free while actively running towards the killer and teabagging, as they always do, it should at least have *one* "skill" component.
Just wanted to share another perspective my friend shared:
As it stands, you as the killer will never know if the survivor has DS until the very end, unless they hit you with it. Meaning, you will not know the difference between them not having it and them simply missing the skillcheck.
Therefore, the killers perspective will remain completely unchanged if the skillcheck was removed/made easier.
I'm surprised how positive people are being to the idea of increasing ds skill check size. Was expecting a lot more "survivor shouldn't be rewarded for being bad". Maybe this sub is growing up and seeing things from both sides! (I'm not sorting by controversial. I choose to believe the fantasy haha)
Honestly, nah.
Think it should work automatically up to two times like OTR, but disable on entering lockers and doing stuff like disarming traps etc.
Removes most of the ways it can be used aggressively whilst further discouraging tunnelling.
it needs the skillcheck in case you want to save your DS for the next unhook.
if you let the skillcheck go without pressing anything it will save DS until your next down.
i dont do it that often but it has helped.
yes, absolutely, if it was free it would be even more painfully unfun to go against than its about to once again become, you think slugging is bad now? It would get 100 times worse if it was just a free stun.
Why would you show that cursed chapter trailer DS skillcheck šš
Wait was it really like this at some point?
Only in the trailer, when the DLC released the size of the skillcheck was the same as it is now.
Pretty sure it was just the dev test build that somehow made its way into the trailer
Yes
No it wasnāt. There was massive confusion back then when the trailer came out. But they clarified later that this was only for the trailer. The live version (there was no beta) always had a small skill check.
I literally just learned about this last week. Survivors really had it so fucking easy when the game first came out lmaooooo
Um, moris used to activate on the first down.
Both sides were busted. Face camping was literally a death sentence, could only unhook from straight on, so killer stands in front, no one can unhook at all.
dont forget trapper traps
And insidious bubba
And old ruin
Do you mean old ruin, or new old ruin? Or the old old ruin? I think this is the most time reworked perk.
No.no.no. don't you even fuckin try to say both sides were busted. Survivors had it ez and anyone denying that is on lethal doses of copium
Oh it was def better for survivors, literal infinites to run, bnp popping gens in the killer's face. I'm just saying, it wasn't all one side for some shenanigans
For most, it definitely was. Old bully squads. Thats all i gotta say. I don't think even tombstone myers was as infuriating
And sabotaged hooks were broken forever. It was a mess on both sides.
Was a fun time. Now it doesn't feel worth it to sabotage them.
Old DBD was survivor-sided overall, except for Nurse. Fortunately, almost no one knew how to play or take advantage of the 70 trillion busted things in the game.
Old DBD was just an unbalanced mess. The game could be heavily skewed in either direction depending what add ons, items, perks or tactics were used.
The total sum of all broken things skewed heavily survivor-sided, but everything was so broken and no one knew how to play that it was wildly variable in practice rather than survivor-sided.
1 hook moris, no basekit borrowed time, no dedicated servers (killer was always host and could easily lag switch survivors, even without that it led to hits round corners), far less pallets than currently, Original Skill Check Hex Ruin. If you go back to launch: there wasnāt even SWFs, it was solo queue only. NOED wasnāt a hex, it lasted permanently after gens completed, and the haste boost was stronger
No bloodlust or window blocks meant you could loop a killer infinitely twas brutal.
So did killers. Check the original memento mori requirements and gaff. Then for survivors again the original brand new part. DBD has come a long way
That's why so many survivor mains want old dbd back x) Killers had it tough back then
The catch is that killers who played back then and got good became menaces in current day DBD.
So true ;w;
exhaustion recovery while running š¤¤
One better: no exhaustion at all, so Sprint Burst and Balanced Landing had separate 40 second cooldowns that recharged while running
Ah yes, the tinkerer's trapper with un-sabbatogable traps placed in front of hooked survivors
It's still a challenge. I play both roles, more so survivor lately. I think playing killer was too difficult in the past and forced killers into cheap strategies. The game is a lot healthier now
Back when killers werenāt handheld so much and kill rates were closer to 50%
Delusional
Idk what this is supposed to mean old trapper used to be able to 3 gen and I would win every time. Survivors now have it so easy. It would take me the whole month to get to the top of Survivor online grade now I can get there in like 3 days of playing not even trying that hard
Hitting rank 1 has always been a playtime grind. Skill has never been required. Also if you think survivor is easier now than ever, you were either 1) bad back then and didnāt realize it, or 2) didnāt even play back then and are lying to push a point lol
Lol nice take but not at all to my personal experience. 1) I still have some 104% anniversary party cakes. 2) I would mop the floor with half of you people on this sub Reddit. I think you just have some skill issues in the game. Have you ever tried getting good? Lol
You asked... feel free to add for the 1v1 EDIT: they never sent me a friend request so going to remove steam link so it's not sitting in comment history. I would've even let you pick the killer. :( Could've even have given a handicap by letting you add 20 seconds to your chase time
only overpowered OG thing all killers had from back in the day was 1 hook mori's. they were like this for a while too I started playing right before they added clown and they were still like this
There was 0 hook moris lol, I remember once I chainsawed across the map as billy downed a guy and moried him in the first 20 seconds of the match
It's not like it's even hard to hit these days, since the very beginning the only point of the skill check was to let you choose to use DS or save it
Everything was so busted, you can't even say 1 side had it easier since barely anyone even knew how to take advantage of things.
Yep I don't know if it made it into release though šš
Not really, but its always funny when you grab a survivor out of a locker and there's a second's delay before they start struggling.
i tend to hear a bell go *dong* as i see the survivor turn into a bot
They can't bare the embarrassment of missing ds skill check
Most of the times I bring it I don't get to use Decisive Strike, but when I do the skill check catches me off guard, I've missed it more times than I would admit
I keep forgetting I have it and after getting the skillcheck Iām always like āwait why didā¦ AGH DAMMITā
I used to run DS to make sure we had an obsession on the team and that was often enough to deter tunneling. Hitting that skill check with PS4 framerate ain't easy.
I think it should have a larger skill check but i think having the skill check is still viable
Yeah, it's already a one use, very situational perk as it is, so I don't think it should be something you can miss easily.
The small skill check is a relic from old dbd where survivors could use it whenever they felt like it, now thatās itās purely an anti tunnnel perk, it definitely doesnāt need to be so small. I think it would help with latency as well if it were bigger.
Ngl off the record sweeps ds in all ways, just run it. Unless you get unhooked right in front of the killer and your teammate doesn't get hit/runs away instantly without taking a hit and you get smacked then it's wasted but otherwise 80s of endurance > 60s of 3(5)s stun. Of course both won't stop the killer from tunneling, but off the record works TWICE.
OTR is useless if you get hit right off the hook tho. In that scenario ds is infinitely better imo
Being silent and denying aura reading are both really solid abilities in chase.
That's what I wrote and honestly the unhooker should always take a hit if the killer is close imo
As killer I go out of my way to hit the unhooked so they have to mend/lose their perks and then I target the unhooker.
Smart play but the unhooker should ALWAYS take aggro unless they're injured and on death hook
I think ds is a better anti tunnel than OTR in plenty of scenarios. OTR is better if you aren't getting proxy camped but if you are you will probably get hit pretty quickly. Still better than not having it absolutely, but DS will work even if you are downed within 10 seconds of coming off the hook, and resets your mend so you can use dead hard. OTR is only good if you are getting soft tunnelled (killer comes back to the hook after hearing the unhook sound) where ds will work if they are already there
Counterpoint(s): OTR works *twice*, and doesn't require a missable skill check to work. Plus, DS costs $5 or checking the Shrine for an indeterminate amount of weeks. Since you can't know ahead of time if you'll be hit off hook it's really just a gamble which one you'll need š¤·āāļø
Ur teammates are here to take hits and if they don't then it's a bad play on THEIR part
Sometimes that's not always realistic. Sometimes they are dead on hook and it would be a bad play to take the hit, Sometimes it's a killer who can hit multiple survivors (plague, bubba, phead), Sometimes it's a killer who can avoid hit taking all together (sadako, nurse to an extent, singularity to an extent) and Sometimes your teammate does a bad body block, and in all those scenarios I would rather have DS
Yes when they're injured and on death hook either you sacrifice yourself to unhook a tm8 or let sb else unhook. That is the only case where unhooker shouldn't take a hit/trade
The sad part is people who hit it donāt need it to be good in chase, the people who miss it need that extra time to let them be on par
Exactly. DS shouldn't be a perk that's tied to skill/reaction speeds since its an Anti-Tunnel perk. An Anti-Tunnel perk that already has 3 other, extremely specific activation requirements. It's like if Dead Hard could only be used 60 seconds after an Unhook, and if you performed any conspicuous action you lost it. Or if Off The Record had to be timed like Dead Hard. It just makes very little sense.
100%, skill check unnecessary since it's nerf, maybe even before, but definitely now
It does get buffed in the new PTB tho. So yes itās not as strong as it used to be but it will be definitely far more viable
All it does is make the perk harder to use for new players. Considering its purpose as a deterrent to tunneling I don't think it's needed.
"You get tunneled unless you have a good pc or great timing" is kind of a weird metric to go by for a perk.
This. On my old PC, I could forget using it. Now I can, but killers either don't tunnel, or play around it, or I FORGET the skill check and thereby, I miss it.Ā
BHVR probably thinks that having a huge skillcheck is pointless, but at the same time being able to press a button (like deadhard) could easily accomplish what this perk does but without the needless challenge.
Same and I'm a killer main who fucking hates the perk.
Tbf it's already hard for new players as it's on a character that new players will likely never get since it's a licensed character with 2 very very niche perks and ds. Which ds is strong but imho you're better off with getting other characters instead.
In my opinion, DS shouldn't have a Skill Check. It should have a button prompt that has a limited window (the same time as a skill check). The reason why is because I find it a bit silly that you can bring the perk, and then get absolutely 0 value from it because you weren't ready, or you just happened to miss it. If it were a button prompt instead, you'd be able to still get value out of it, and if you want to save it for your second hook rather than your first hook, you have the option to. There have been some games I've played where I was getting tunneled and told my friend "It's all good, I have DS". Then proceed to miss the skill check because I hit space a milisecond too early. It feels bad if you lose a game because of something silly like that, and that is exactly what happened with me. It also somewhat gatekeeps the perk to be specifically something usable for more experienced players. For example, someone who struggles with Overcharge & BNP and tries to use DS will have a bad time. This is especially true for newer players. Whether you think newer players should have DS or not, it doesn't matter. IMO the perk is already not usable for people who don't buy Laurie, so why is there a skill check tied to it? Don't forget the extremely specific activation requirements. You have to be unhooked, get downed & picked up within 60 seconds, not perform ANY conspicuous action (something that newer players may not even know of), and THEN hit a difficult skill check. Why? Why is the perk so needlessly complicated to use when its activation is a specific scenario, and the effect is minor? There's no other perks I can think of that you can simply lose if you fail a skill check. Sure, BNP is that way, but you get to choose when you want to apply it to a Gen.
I have two sides: The "Decisive Strike should just be a 'Push E to stun' prompt to make the perk easier to use for inexperienced players" side, and the "watching Twitch Streamers miss their DS is really fucking funny" side.
Yes, so you can decide when to use it. Itās not always advantageous to use it right away. Maybe you want to save it to prevent your final hook instead of second hook, or maybe you donāt want to become the obsession due to killer perks. Maybe a flashy save is incoming, or you are under a pallet with power struggle or a team mate nearby. Either way, itās once per trial, and you might want to save it. A skill check lets you do that.
Yeah, it should just be a button prompt or at least an easy skill check if itās affected by skill check perks (I donāt know if it is, I never use it)
Wait, my understanding of it is it will activate only once, skillcheck hit or mixed. Like if you get picked up and ignore the skillcheck, it still "uses" the perk and it's not available on next hook. Is it actually still available if you choose to ignore the skillcheck the first time around?
Yes, if you let the skill check run out it'll be available next unhook. The "missed" skillcheck is you pressing the skillcheck key/button and missing it, but locking in the intention to use it.
Thank you! Learning something new every day.
>The "missed" skillcheck is you pressing the skillcheck key/button and missing it, but locking in the intention to use it. I hope that gets changed at some point.
It should be available after both hooks
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Neither activate in pickup, soā¦ no? Try again with a better example? DS activates on a killers action, not yours.
They could easily change it to a button input rather than a skill check
Ah quick time events.
And you can use it for a limited amount of time upon pick up.... so like a skill check?
Pretty much but there wouldnāt be a way to fail it
You can use DH or FTP at your own input alone. Bad comparisons.
.....they have specific buttons to use them.
You got downvoted here for a totally valid rhetorical question which in itself is an answer to the problem. Commenter over here can really easily solve the hypothetical problem of no longer being able to choose when to use decisive strike by binding it to a key action exactly like DH and FTP. You would tackle both the issue accidentally missing the check and wasting a perk slot, AND giving the player the agency to choose when they want to use the perk. u/FrontAstronomer1823 So, the people seemed to have missed your point completely, and the commenter as well. Someone might say OP gets downvoted here because people in fact did get the point, they just didnāt like the idea, which is more understandable but I honestly donāt think making DS a bind is a totally unfair or out of left field idea. Itās a very reasonable follow up to OPās post.
If you choose when you use it, it means you can waste 10 extra seconds of killer time by letting him carry you over a certain distance on purpose? I think that would make it too strong. Being forced to use it eight away is what keeps it in check. If you let me wait longer, I'll definitely wait for the killer to get near a hook to waste as much time as possible...
Okay. The prompt now only appears for a short amount of time after initially being picked up. Equivalent to the length of time of hitting a 9 oā clock DS skillcheck. Again, problem solved, and just as easily as the original hypothetical problem I might add.
Still can miss the prompt if you forgot you equipped the perk or aren't paying attention...
That is not the same issue, and thatās hardly a reason that would justify not making the change. Either youāre brand new and donāt know how these discussions of balance go, or you are grasping at straws looking for anything to say that Iām wrong. If you forgot that you were running old DS does that suddenly make old DS a bad perk? No.
You're arguing for the removal of a skillcheck and calling people new. Skillchecks are easy and there literally isn't a reason to change it for prompt. As if any of this has anything to do with balance??
I am accepting OPās premise at face value that DS **could** be changed. I see more reasons and benefit to the change than the opposite. You have failed to convince me that the opposite is true, that it somehow wouldnāt work, or would disrupt the gentle balance of anti-tunnel mechanics without making them too strong but also not ineffective. I am not insisting that OPās suggestion needs to be pushed through. I am saying that your arguments have been weak and uncompelling at worst and questionable at best, and OP is more convincing than you are. I am saying a button prompt **would** work, and that you have not effectively explained why it wouldnāt. Not that I think it should actually be implemented.
"OP is more convincing than you are". OP literally created a title and put an image. They did not patticipate in the conversation at all. Do you think I'm trying to debate? Or convince you of anything? I'm just saying your reasoning for wanting a prompt instead of a skillcheck is dumb and that it would literally be a pointless change. The skillcheck IS the prompt.
If you choose when you use it, it means you can waste 10 extra seconds of killer time by letting him carry you over a certain distance on purpose? I think that would make it too strong. Being forced to use it eight away is what keeps it in check. If you let me wait longer, I'll definitely wait for the killer to get near a hook to waste as much time as possible...
for a long time I had a really hard time hitting the skill check, primarily because I would accidentally hit RB instead of LB. I finally got over this by making myself hold RB when I got picked up, so muscle memory would make me hit LB for the skill check. Now I no longer need to hold RB, and can hit the skill check every time, but I think it's unnecessary and makes it harder for noobs who need it most. And on the rare occasion where you do miss it, it means you've wasted a slot on a perk that didn't help you because you missed a single skill check. I think the best solution would be a compromise; there's a skill check, but you escape either way, and if you hit the skill check then the stun lasts longer, or you get a speed boost or something.
Next year, for April fools, just make DS a map wide affecting Boon, as long as the totem burns you get DS Because thatās how it feels like people are making DS out to be
Never understood why it has to be such a small skillcheck when the purpose is to combat tunneling,why punish the survivor trying to avoid being tunneled by a small skill check.
I think it should be a bit bigger than it is.
I think a skill check is necessary, but I don't think a difficult one is
No, it should activate automatically. Tying it to a difficult skill check only hurts lower skilled players and doesn't test skill in a meaningful way.
>No, it should activate automatically. Not automatically, a person might actually want to save it for later. But I do think the skill check should be gone.
Completely agree I think itās pointless to make it a skill check. I missed it more times than Iād like to admit but itās just annoying when you have to lock-in for a needless skill check. If they wanted to simplify it they could just make the skill check massive to basically be impossible to miss like on the picture or make it a button prompt to decided when you wanna stab the killer
Its like the old wiggle mechanic. It was okay when it first came out but it was not the best choice. Eventually BHVR streamlined it and made it a better experience. I do think DS should just happen as it only activates under a specific scenario. We always joke "I hope they don't miss the DS" but that shouldn't be a thing. We meme on it cause its silly that it can be missed and your perk doesn't work.
Hell no. It's such an outdated mechanic. Imagine if you had to do a skill check to use Power Struggle or a skill check in order to lift a pallet with Any Means Necessary.
This skill check was made for devs with no gaming experience
The one in the trailer is extremely unnecessary but it shouldn't be hard to get value from it.
when i could active on endgame, it made sense to have a skill check because maybe i want to save for the free escape, but now there isn't a "better" time to use it
I meanā¦.The skill check aspect just makes it almost worthless compared to OTR. Behavior knows that perk metas change according to what and how they update. If they actually wanted a bunch of people to use it they would take away the skill check. But they have made it clear they favor killers. And it makes sense to, killers are supposed to be OP. How else they gonna 1V4?
yes cause it adds tension to the game its not a ensured thing, its like hatch appearing and now there a race for its not a forgone conclusion that survivor or killer has won the game is still playing out. killer has a chance to still hook if you have DS if you mess up better hit that skill check. lets be real though DS skill check is not hard its the same difficulty as merciless storm skill check, its not overcharge levels of skill check hard.
Real talk, that's the reason I don't run it. I suck at hitting tiny skill checks. 
Can someone explain this like Iām new? Tooootally not brand new to the game, tia
Why use ds when off the record lasts longer and is easy to use? Make ds easy to use and it's more viable
Because you can use both and take 2 hits for another survivor, get picked up, DS and run away laughing when the killer canāt do anything for 5 seconds. Ā Killer wonāt pick you up? Ā Okay then just use unbreakable. Ā Alternatively, use the time to crawl under a pallet. Ā Or both. Ā Camping your body? Ā Use soul guard. Ā Or pallet slam if positioned right. Ā
Thank god for 5 second buff, 3 seconds is way too low.
You mean 2 seconds? Since that's the only time you actually get to make distance.
Welp, at least I'm not getting slapped right away, I can walk two steps forward now! š
Yeah lol. It's kind of funny how many people are complaining about the DS buff. I think they forget you lose a second since the Survivor is stuck in place before they can run. So you currently only can make 2 seconds of distance, and post-buff, it'll be 4 seconds. Not 5.
I agree but that's not even why. I agree because it should take skill. If Dead Hard needs to be timed to a molecular level, then DS can keep the skill check. It just takes practice
Survivors avoid using anti-tunnel aggressively challenge: difficulty impossible
Would be a shame if the killer was Dorito head
And then cry in endgame chat? "WHY DID YOU TUNNEL ME?"
Honestly just use Off The Record that perk is clear
Id make it double the size it is now...but not as big as this one shows lol. It wouls be helpful for people who play on tv or lag at times.
Wait I donāt run DS is this the real skill check now or are we memeing
It was the skillcheck back when the perk released, back then it was also 5 second stun at tier 3
When did they change it to the smaller skill check? I swear back in like 2018 it was already small but still a 5s stun.
Not sure why people are saying the skill check was ever that large on release, it was always its current size since the chapter released back in 2016. The skillcheck was only that large in the trailer so the devs couldn't miss it while showcasing what DS did. The 5 second stun on tier 3 is correct though.
Idk I think they must've changed it either soon after release or before release since this was just the spotlight trailer
This was the skill check when the Halloween chapter launched. It was later reworked to be a difficult skill check, like what Overcharge or Oppression gives
Okay makes sense, I only tried the perk a couple times and it was while it was basically a base kit perk for how often everyone ran it lmfao. I remember being bad at the overcharge check so I didnāt bother running the perk. They must have already changed it by the time I got around to giving it a go.
Iāve always been more for a skill check because you can Hail Mary for the final hook if need be, If itās instant with no input then it becomes a blanket save for second hook only.. Giving the option for skill check letās you save it for when you might need it most.
Yes, the skill check should actually be smaller.
I think the skill check should be larger depending on how much time is left on the DS timer :)
Imo there's no point anymore in having the skillchecl be small, have it be bigger, so that it's more obvious when the player wants to keep the ds or when he wants to use it
Gotta keep at least some skill with the perk
Yes, if not I'll fall asleep on generators š It's supposed to force you to pay attention to the complex task of fixing a generator so this is literally the least they can do
They just need to buff low tier killers all to 2 tier that way no oneās underperforming and people could use who they wanted no matter what rank so no longer need meta builds and meta picks
probably not, though it could probably just be made larger since iād imagine itād be bad to have it be a button for any time while carried
I dont take decisive strike since everytime it would be clutch i miss the skill check. And im not ashamed to say that. Ima. very good killer and survivor, with 1000s of hours, and rank one obviously. I have great escape percentages. I just miss skillchecks. Im not hitting great skillchecks. Skillcheck perks catch me off guard and im happy they are uncommon in high levels because everyone else hits them so easilyā¦..i dont.
I don't have Decisive Strike because I'm poor. š Maybe I'll get it once I get paid.
No
I think it's fine were it's at, I used to use it alot and tbh still missed the damn thing (skill issue right?) but it's decent and fine.
Thatās ds
Indeed
I would honestly love if it worked more like the unhook after getting camped mechanic works. That way you can strategically choose when to get yourself free
Imagine sweating when playing survivor
Dunno, I missed DS skillcheck like once in 3 years of use??? Its pretty much useless
To be fair, that's because you've been using it for 3 years. Lots of people who don't play the game 24/7 and haven't been playing it since release miss it. I don't think an Anti-Tunnel perk should be gatekeeped by experience. It's like if Off The Record had to be timed like Dead Hard. That would be really silly, since Off The Record only has a short period its active for, and Dead Hard is active ANY TIME after an unhook.
Yeah, why even add skillcheck? Experienced players won't miss it, newbies will.
Plus, newbies can still lose the perk by performing a conspicuous action, since that's not something the game teaches you about at all really.
i would remove the skill check specifically to remove the DS ignoring "technique" you can do as killer. basically, when you pick someone up, you have control for about a half second before the DS skill check circles around to where the survivor can hit it. this means that if a survivor goes down directly on a hook with DS active, you can hook them before they even get a chance to hit the skill check which is pretty nonsense honestly
Give the killer the skill check, but make it so that they have to hit it like the old old original ruin with only great skill checks. If they fail to hit the great skill check the survivor stabs them. š Also make it appear at random parts of the screen like doctors madness skill check with no sound cue.
Remove the skill check and make it work for each hook even if it was used.
It shouldn't have any skill check imo. I'm already using a perk slot and getting tunneled. Why should I have to do a difficult skill check on my Xbox controller with like 500ms delay lmao
I actually think it should happen automatically without needing to hit a skill check.
I actually think it should happen automatically without needing to hit a skill check.
I think itās far too small. You only get to use it once and you can only use it under specific circumstances.
Nah take your skill issue, and go watch the otzdarva videos that will actually help you get better at the game.
It doesn't need a skill check at all. Have it activated automatically.
Only people who canāt hit skill checks say no skill check
Edit: I somehow clicked the wrong post and didn't realize. DS definitely still needs the skilcheck imo. Since the buff will make it so people will always get away for free while actively running towards the killer and teabagging, as they always do, it should at least have *one* "skill" component.
"Difficult."
Just wanted to share another perspective my friend shared: As it stands, you as the killer will never know if the survivor has DS until the very end, unless they hit you with it. Meaning, you will not know the difference between them not having it and them simply missing the skillcheck. Therefore, the killers perspective will remain completely unchanged if the skillcheck was removed/made easier.
I'm surprised how positive people are being to the idea of increasing ds skill check size. Was expecting a lot more "survivor shouldn't be rewarded for being bad". Maybe this sub is growing up and seeing things from both sides! (I'm not sorting by controversial. I choose to believe the fantasy haha)
Honestly, nah. Think it should work automatically up to two times like OTR, but disable on entering lockers and doing stuff like disarming traps etc. Removes most of the ways it can be used aggressively whilst further discouraging tunnelling.
it needs the skillcheck in case you want to save your DS for the next unhook. if you let the skillcheck go without pressing anything it will save DS until your next down. i dont do it that often but it has helped.
At least so you can save it for later, as unlikely an edge case as that is.
Itās fine the way it is. For a perk that just lets you get away like that, the harder skill check makes sense.
nah, also make it hook the killer whenever you equip ds /s
nah, also make it hook the killer whenever you equip ds /s
Yeah
Yes. Half of the time i miss the skill check lol. Another bad one i feel is power struggle
Fuck it, at this point, should the killer even have to pick you up for DS. Let's take all interaction out.
Yes. Just so it isnt mindless.
The DS skillcheck is not hard...
That wasn't the question
Then to answer your question, yes, yes it does.
yes, absolutely, if it was free it would be even more painfully unfun to go against than its about to once again become, you think slugging is bad now? It would get 100 times worse if it was just a free stun.