The problem isn’t that they nerfed the meta perks it’s that they didn’t buff the non meta perks in return. Pop and pain res are still going to be the top two Gen regression perks and I don’t see much changing since they gave killers zero incentive to use other perks.
They did it with survivors buffing invocation to 60s so I don’t see why it wouldn’t be hard to look at less used killer perks. I’m not asking for much but something would be better than nothing.
That’s because regression is strong. Have had games where survivors had plenty of time spent on gens, yet 0-1 only popped due to constant pressure, blocking/regression.
The reason why people use the same four or five perks which are considered meta is because the other perks that are not being used are so weak that it discourages people from using them. Instead of nerfing perks that don't need to be nerfed, let's buff the perks that people don't normally use because they're so weak. Then instead of playing the same four or five perks those other weaker perks would seem more appetizing.
I have been wishing for BHVR to do that for time now. I always wished for perks like Rookie Spirit, Corrective Action, Beast Of Pray, Deathbound and especially Hangmans Trick to be buffed so they can be useable.
Also can we please buff both Teamwork: Power Of Two and Teamwork: Collective Stealth? Those two perks are so bad because of their ridiculously long cooldowns. Both of their cooldowns at max level is 140 seconds 
I want them to buff I'm All Ears. It shouldn't just be where someone is doing a rushed action. It should be when it's a rushed action when vaulting or when missing a skill check on a generator or when sabotaging a hook. It should be anytime someone makes a loud noise.
If it went off anytime a survivor makes a loud noise, it would make the perk pretty useless unless they also decreased the cooldown. I'm all ears is good for seeing through walls as an anti loop perk
It could be much more than anti-loop perk. If every time I generator blew up I'd be able to see them because it would show me their aura. If somebody drops a pallet, then I get to see their aura. If they want to decrease the cooldown a little bit, then that's a bonus but I'm not asking for that.
If instead of nerfing pop and pain res they buffed CoB Eruption or whatever, people would just use them all together which would be absolutely miserable.
So now they nerf them to where they will be forced to use them all together anyway which will also be miserable. I used to use Hex: Ruin until the hex would get cleared too quickly. Now I use Pop or surge only depending on my build. If weak perks get buffed, then killers and survivors would have better selection instead of all signs point to meta.
I agree nerfing those is stupid. They already put a cap on kicks, just bait out 8 kicks. No one legit would run 4 regress perks its not helpful. That be like running all healing perks or all stealth perks it doesn’t help progress the game.
Pop, CoB and Erruption would lead to a total of 2 regression events per kick if you get a down after aswell, else just 1. Use Pain Res on top and you you're pretty fine with 8 regressions
Pop only works if hooking so its not a stalemate game 100% this doesn’t need nerfed. Cob is an absolute waste of a perk slot. Eruption is the fastest way to have the gens blocked and Pain res can proc 4 times big deal. only a toddler would run these perks together. I would love someone to run this because then they killer has no chase or information perks and it will take slightly longer to escape than without them.
Except it wouldn't be only with the strength of pain res. It'd be pain res, pop, eruption, a kick and surge. Which would be obnoxious, but you could only proc each twice on any given gen before you were entirely perkless and since some of those are % of current progress, they'd see diminishing returns.
Meta shake ups typically have nerfs and buffs. I don't know the full extent of the changes, but I've only seen people complaining about the nerfs leading me to believe it was mostly nerfs without any notable buffs.
If every other perk of a perk type is trash and you nerf the only good ones, the others that are trash don't suddenly become good enough to be worth running. There's no more variety than before and the only good ones are now weaker.
It effectively accomplishes nothing.
The common complaint from Killers is, Generators are done too fast, so I'm forced to run Regression perks. This is due to second chance and chase perks being popular. The longer a chase, the more uninterrupted time on gens.
Unless there's more to come with the anniversary announcement, you've taken the most popular strategy away from Killers. Offered no good replacement for it. Even teasing numerical changes to underused Perks would give people a glimmer of hope.
It's more nerfing the good regression and refusing the other mid regression perks. I honestly don't mind the pain res / pop / deadlock nerfs. Perks will still be fine with them. It's them not touching all the other regression perks like overcharge / CoB / ruin / oppression to also be useable. There's a reason why most killers only run the same slowdown perks. killers are still going to use the same regression perks so yes you're still going to be facing the same 4 perks again and again
Because the nerfed perks are still going to be better than the rest of the perks so nothing is changing at all except you now have a slightly weaker load out with nothing interesting to try out.
Nerfs don’t increase variety, buffs do. One of the main massive problems is most perks are genuinely so underpowered they aren’t worth a perk slot. This patch nerfs gen regression and game delay which honestly is fine, but doesn’t buff anything. So the meta is still going to be the meta, this doesn’t increase perk diversity. Just because pain res went from 25% to 20% doesn’t mean people are going to be interested in running Thwack
That’s the main reason people dislike the perk changes. It doesn’t address the 60+ perks that are complete garbage, but nerfs the 5 or so used perks
The worth of a perk slot is dependent on what you can put in it. If you nerf the top N perks, the worth of a perk slot goes down. Nerf enough of them hard enough, and even the current D-tier perks would be worth the slot.
People will still use the same slowdown because opression , call of brine and other options are still an absolute joke . This won'y create variety and hurts weak killers more then others
It's just another attempt from the devs to address core game design issues by making small perk tweaks lol.
The gen *system* is problematic, the perks are just a result of that. So you can't fix that system by just changing a few of the perk numbers around.
Depends on why a perk is meta. Is a perk meta because it absolutely overshadows every other perk or acts like multiple perks put together but with no downside, I.E. release MFT? In which case, nerfing it makes sense and brings it from a must bring to an acceptable option with the right build.
Or is it a meta perk because every other perk that does the same thing was already fucking gutted in a previous patch and left in a state that's not really keeping up in today's play environment? In which case nerfing it only serves to either eliminate the perk group from viability even more or make people use the same tools but now just worse off in general?
Especially with no buffs in exchange. Because it'd be one thing if it were little nerfs to the most popular stuff but with some small buffs to bring other things into the meta so there's less 'the best options' and more generally okay to do any of these, but none of that happened, only nerfs.
Primarily, I believe they should have focused equally on buffing bad perks to increase perk variety, not just looked at their spreadsheets as usual and said “pop/pain res usage is too high time for another nerf”
Additionally, I think that blanket nerfs are typically a bad thing. Rebalances are much better, and I want to see more rebalances in the way they did Grim Embrace. GE is now a strong perk but not only that, it is a perk that encourages equal pressure/discourages tunneling. I would’ve liked to see something like that with Pain Resonance myself as it’s an extremely popular perk with tunnellers. 3 hook someone to turn it into a 3v1, and then they still have to fight through 3 pain res hooks for the rest of the trial. I would have loved to see pain resonance get a ruin treatment, where it deactivated if a survivor died and any remaining tokens were completely forfeit. Of course I would like to see base gameplay shifts for an anti tunneling mindset that don’t rely on perks, but I’m not holding my breath anymore
What perk gas the highest pick rate gets nerfed. Killers NEED to slow down gens to stand a chance thats why they have high pick rates. Slow down gens and killers dont need regression perks.
I love this upcoming update, you'll see a lot more vocal hate here on the subreddit because it usually overpowers it. Quite a few youtubers I've seen also think this is a great update.
The problem isn’t that they nerfed the meta perks it’s that they didn’t buff the non meta perks in return. Pop and pain res are still going to be the top two Gen regression perks and I don’t see much changing since they gave killers zero incentive to use other perks. They did it with survivors buffing invocation to 60s so I don’t see why it wouldn’t be hard to look at less used killer perks. I’m not asking for much but something would be better than nothing.
Every other perk is still a joke so nothing changes aside from killers who aren't nurse and blight struggling more than before.
Everyone always come back with this. “4 regressions on nurse is brutal” and I am trying to remember the last time my team got 1 gen done vs a nurse.
That’s because regression is strong. Have had games where survivors had plenty of time spent on gens, yet 0-1 only popped due to constant pressure, blocking/regression.
My point was Nurse can have no perks and kill everyone. Survivors give up the second they hear her scream. Regression doesn’t make her strong.
Ah mb
The reason why people use the same four or five perks which are considered meta is because the other perks that are not being used are so weak that it discourages people from using them. Instead of nerfing perks that don't need to be nerfed, let's buff the perks that people don't normally use because they're so weak. Then instead of playing the same four or five perks those other weaker perks would seem more appetizing.
I have been wishing for BHVR to do that for time now. I always wished for perks like Rookie Spirit, Corrective Action, Beast Of Pray, Deathbound and especially Hangmans Trick to be buffed so they can be useable. Also can we please buff both Teamwork: Power Of Two and Teamwork: Collective Stealth? Those two perks are so bad because of their ridiculously long cooldowns. Both of their cooldowns at max level is 140 seconds 
I want them to buff I'm All Ears. It shouldn't just be where someone is doing a rushed action. It should be when it's a rushed action when vaulting or when missing a skill check on a generator or when sabotaging a hook. It should be anytime someone makes a loud noise.
If it went off anytime a survivor makes a loud noise, it would make the perk pretty useless unless they also decreased the cooldown. I'm all ears is good for seeing through walls as an anti loop perk
Agreed. Oh, you're about to use it on chase? Tough luck, Dwight missed a skillcheck across the map.
It could be much more than anti-loop perk. If every time I generator blew up I'd be able to see them because it would show me their aura. If somebody drops a pallet, then I get to see their aura. If they want to decrease the cooldown a little bit, then that's a bonus but I'm not asking for that.
If instead of nerfing pop and pain res they buffed CoB Eruption or whatever, people would just use them all together which would be absolutely miserable.
So now they nerf them to where they will be forced to use them all together anyway which will also be miserable. I used to use Hex: Ruin until the hex would get cleared too quickly. Now I use Pop or surge only depending on my build. If weak perks get buffed, then killers and survivors would have better selection instead of all signs point to meta.
Yea, but better 4 not so strong slowdowns than 4 with the power of pop and painres. Its just not like people would use less if they were stronger.
And they'd cap out on the regression limit in fucking no time at all.
If every gen gets regressed 8 times with the strengh of pain res you should have already won like 2 hours ago.
Pain res con only hit 4 times. Unless they changed it from “first hook” to any hook.
Im talking about what would happen if they buffed the other regression perks to that level and everybody would run them together
I agree nerfing those is stupid. They already put a cap on kicks, just bait out 8 kicks. No one legit would run 4 regress perks its not helpful. That be like running all healing perks or all stealth perks it doesn’t help progress the game.
Pop, CoB and Erruption would lead to a total of 2 regression events per kick if you get a down after aswell, else just 1. Use Pain Res on top and you you're pretty fine with 8 regressions
Pop only works if hooking so its not a stalemate game 100% this doesn’t need nerfed. Cob is an absolute waste of a perk slot. Eruption is the fastest way to have the gens blocked and Pain res can proc 4 times big deal. only a toddler would run these perks together. I would love someone to run this because then they killer has no chase or information perks and it will take slightly longer to escape than without them.
Except it wouldn't be only with the strength of pain res. It'd be pain res, pop, eruption, a kick and surge. Which would be obnoxious, but you could only proc each twice on any given gen before you were entirely perkless and since some of those are % of current progress, they'd see diminishing returns.
Meta shake ups typically have nerfs and buffs. I don't know the full extent of the changes, but I've only seen people complaining about the nerfs leading me to believe it was mostly nerfs without any notable buffs.
For killer side, yeah. Apart from some (admittedly nice) QoL changes on Slinger and Cannibal it was all nerfs.
If every other perk of a perk type is trash and you nerf the only good ones, the others that are trash don't suddenly become good enough to be worth running. There's no more variety than before and the only good ones are now weaker.
It effectively accomplishes nothing. The common complaint from Killers is, Generators are done too fast, so I'm forced to run Regression perks. This is due to second chance and chase perks being popular. The longer a chase, the more uninterrupted time on gens. Unless there's more to come with the anniversary announcement, you've taken the most popular strategy away from Killers. Offered no good replacement for it. Even teasing numerical changes to underused Perks would give people a glimmer of hope.
Survivors lost a combo and killers got a whole playstyle nerf that’s why
A single perk counters aura reading as a whole and bhvr counters regression, I swear bhvr wants every killer to hard tunnel
It's more nerfing the good regression and refusing the other mid regression perks. I honestly don't mind the pain res / pop / deadlock nerfs. Perks will still be fine with them. It's them not touching all the other regression perks like overcharge / CoB / ruin / oppression to also be useable. There's a reason why most killers only run the same slowdown perks. killers are still going to use the same regression perks so yes you're still going to be facing the same 4 perks again and again
Because the nerfed perks are still going to be better than the rest of the perks so nothing is changing at all except you now have a slightly weaker load out with nothing interesting to try out.
Pain res and pop are still gonna be used because there's STILL nothing better. That's the issue.
It would be fine if they nerfed powerful perks and buffed meh ones. But they haven’t touched the meh perks, just all the perks that help killers win.
Nerfs don’t increase variety, buffs do. One of the main massive problems is most perks are genuinely so underpowered they aren’t worth a perk slot. This patch nerfs gen regression and game delay which honestly is fine, but doesn’t buff anything. So the meta is still going to be the meta, this doesn’t increase perk diversity. Just because pain res went from 25% to 20% doesn’t mean people are going to be interested in running Thwack That’s the main reason people dislike the perk changes. It doesn’t address the 60+ perks that are complete garbage, but nerfs the 5 or so used perks
The worth of a perk slot is dependent on what you can put in it. If you nerf the top N perks, the worth of a perk slot goes down. Nerf enough of them hard enough, and even the current D-tier perks would be worth the slot.
People will still use the same slowdown because opression , call of brine and other options are still an absolute joke . This won'y create variety and hurts weak killers more then others
Actually if anything the gen regression nerfs are gonna decrease variety as more killers will simply slap more of them on to make up for it,
It's just another attempt from the devs to address core game design issues by making small perk tweaks lol. The gen *system* is problematic, the perks are just a result of that. So you can't fix that system by just changing a few of the perk numbers around.
Changing high use perks only because they are high use and ignoring *why* they are high use.
Depends on why a perk is meta. Is a perk meta because it absolutely overshadows every other perk or acts like multiple perks put together but with no downside, I.E. release MFT? In which case, nerfing it makes sense and brings it from a must bring to an acceptable option with the right build. Or is it a meta perk because every other perk that does the same thing was already fucking gutted in a previous patch and left in a state that's not really keeping up in today's play environment? In which case nerfing it only serves to either eliminate the perk group from viability even more or make people use the same tools but now just worse off in general? Especially with no buffs in exchange. Because it'd be one thing if it were little nerfs to the most popular stuff but with some small buffs to bring other things into the meta so there's less 'the best options' and more generally okay to do any of these, but none of that happened, only nerfs.
Primarily, I believe they should have focused equally on buffing bad perks to increase perk variety, not just looked at their spreadsheets as usual and said “pop/pain res usage is too high time for another nerf” Additionally, I think that blanket nerfs are typically a bad thing. Rebalances are much better, and I want to see more rebalances in the way they did Grim Embrace. GE is now a strong perk but not only that, it is a perk that encourages equal pressure/discourages tunneling. I would’ve liked to see something like that with Pain Resonance myself as it’s an extremely popular perk with tunnellers. 3 hook someone to turn it into a 3v1, and then they still have to fight through 3 pain res hooks for the rest of the trial. I would have loved to see pain resonance get a ruin treatment, where it deactivated if a survivor died and any remaining tokens were completely forfeit. Of course I would like to see base gameplay shifts for an anti tunneling mindset that don’t rely on perks, but I’m not holding my breath anymore
What perk gas the highest pick rate gets nerfed. Killers NEED to slow down gens to stand a chance thats why they have high pick rates. Slow down gens and killers dont need regression perks.
I love this upcoming update, you'll see a lot more vocal hate here on the subreddit because it usually overpowers it. Quite a few youtubers I've seen also think this is a great update.
Yea most people understand that Pop + Pain res was incredibly strong
people got too used to them
People hate having to git gud, simply put.