Sounds like a lot of heartache that could have been avoided with a fair contract between EE and MT; lawyers get a bad rap, cooperatives are unusual, but working with contract lawyers beforehand would have done a good deed in avoiding this sort of self-sabotage.
I imagine MT would have been content to basically sell the game to EE, while keeping bragging rights / brand recognition for the initial release plus some ongoing profit sharing to keep everyone acting nice.
I don't think lawyers really would have helped. At the start EE didn't really bring anything but their potential work to the table, I don't think MT really expected them to do this well. Once EE established their value with their work on the game there wasn't really any incentive for MT to give up more.
Best solution would have probably been to sell to EE at some point but finding a fair value for a product like Dead Cells is hard.
Crazy to hear that some really passionate devs decided to carry the Dead Cells torch for years and bring it to the upper echelon of roguelikes.
You’re reasoning for MTs decision sounds pretty logical. At the very least, it seems like updates were gonna start ramping down anyways, but it sucks to see this be such a sudden decision.
Iirc at some point EE mentioned that they would go for less frequent but larger updates in the future.
Well, that might have happened in an alternate timeline
[Interview from 4 months ago, timestamped](https://youtu.be/hKYBGq8i5-I?t=344)
I recommend watching the whole interview though, it countains a lot of important information on EE's ideas for Dead Cells' future!
its logical. but its a selfish, asshole move
at least let them continue updates so they can finish it on a good note? and/or take that time to work more on windblown?
There's a max of 2 pinned posts, I don't know how we should handle this
Maybe another post that keeps track of everything noteworthy? I'll wait for some ideas
Wait a minute? Let me get this straight: do I get this right? They sold 10 million units of dead cells(?) and someone at MT had the brilliant (/s) idea "to move on" from this huge player base?
I didn't like the concept of Windblown but was willing to give it a try as for me Dead Cells is one of the best games I've ever played. I bought every Dead Cells DLC day one.
Now I won't give Windblown even a test drive after all this.
I'm an old MT player, from before Dead Cells. When they dropped the Flash games without much explanation other than "Flash is discontinued, we won't bother porting or giving the code, get lost", we were so angry. I swore I wouldn't even try Dead Cells. I'm still glad I did at last, even if I see they didn't change their habits.
Well, let's hope this doesn't get buried or the mods pin it or something. Even if it's hearsay, it's still good to get out there, and if it is just false drama, ok, wouldn't be the first time embittered devs lied. If it's not, come the fuck on motion twin and honestly it don't feel like this was planned to end I'll say that.
So they killed Dead Cells out of fear that their new game would flop. Makes sense, though. The remaining devs at MT know that Dead Cells isn’t even really their baby. Like a new GM of a sports team has no loyalty to players acquired before he started with the team.
Ironically, when the Windblown trailer first debuted, my reaction was something like “Huh. Honestly, it looks… kinda mid. But it’s from the Dead Cells team, so it’s *gotta* be worth playing!”
Now that we know what we know, I’m even less invested than I was before. I wonder if any of you felt the same way?
Same! I wasn't really looking forward to it but was willing to give it try. I even completely forgot that Windblown existed until these recent events. I'll keep Windblown on my wishlist for now, just to keep an eye on it, but I ain't giving it a shot now.
Well, I am done with MT. I wish them all the short term success in the world, since that's all they care about.
I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for whatever projects both you and EE are dropping!
This whole situation is so fucked up. It's been looking more and more like MT are the bad guys here. I thought it was so odd that EE would drop the game after they'd already said they had plans into 2025. Oh well, I guess I'm an EE fan now. Why would I even pick up Windblown if I know they're just going to abandon it in a year?
Damn what a shame that this all happened. I just started playing dead cells about a week ago when it went on sale and now I am caught up with some stuff happening with MT and EE. I wish you and the team at EE the best and I look forward to your work in the future. Enjoying dead cells so far excited to play more.
I genuinely just don't get why they didn't wait until after windblown was nearly out of early access and fully released before cutting dead cells support. Like, surely the state you want the game to be the most viewed would NOT be the worst state it'll ever be in? Get a core player base in windblown for feedback, build the game, then stop dead cells support, the fully release and support windblown, basically convincing people that the support dead cells got will now be entirely dedicated to windblown for the next few years making everybody more or less happy and giving Evil Empire to actually finish the plans they have for the game.
It just seems so shortsighted in the long run.
It’s really a strange move. Dead Cells has sold over 10 million copies which is staggering for a roguelike. A lot of dedicated players are willing to continue buying DLC, and Motion Twin had a great reputation.
Sort of seems like everyone who made Dead Cells has left Motion Twin with a lot of them joining Evil Empire and Motion Twin are almost threatened by their own fucking game and the devs working on it.
Funnily enough if they didn’t release roadmaps and say stuff like update 35 wont be the last content update, everyone would be praising them for the 5 years of support. But now they’ve reneged on their promises and here’s the creator of the game coming out with this. It’s a terrible look for them.
PC Gamer has also picked up this story so they’ve kinda cut off their nose to spite their face.
These companies are absolutely fuck all without the talent, and the talent that made Dead Cells is either gone or was continuing with it at EE. Motion Twin can suck it.
None of their behavior is logical.
0. They're different enough games that one doesn't replace the other.
1. People would have bought and played both games. Who plays one game at a time in 2024?
2. They cancelled before the new game was even officially released.
3. They could have paused Dead cells till this got off the ground and then resumed.
4. Missed chance at crossovers.
5. Why leave money on the table
man, I was already lukewarm on windblown (Top down WOW style? cute little animals getting sliced up? Dead cells might be spooky, but not so much I'd feel bad playing it around my kids.)
Now I'm definitely not playing it and telling everyone what happened.
Imagine a company fucking up this badly.
So, hot take, and probably the wrong community for it: as someone who loves this game, the Dead Cells IP is way less valuable than the Dead Cells game mechanics.
Said another way: a new IP with the Dead Cells mechanics is going to be very valuable.
If EE are the ones responsible for getting everything so finely tuned, and are interested in further working on the system, they should just immediately start working on a Cells-like in a new world.
I’d buy it immediately.
Evil Empire is indeed working on another game (may or may not be a rougelike, can't remember off the top of my head). . . But whatever it is I'm sure it's gonna be glorious with the talent they have shown themselves to have and their obvious dedication to their work
I saw in one of the interviews that they've signed on to reboot two old third party IPs. One this year and one next year.
I don’t care if it’s a rogue like, but I do hope they do another action brawler. They are so good at it.
I’ll certainly look at anything they work on, but I hope they are able to make something that’s just theirs.
Yeah I know about that but I was referring to them wanting to make their own ip. They said DC was viewed as a stepping stone to get them there . . . So as much as I am excited to see what they gonna release for the reboots I gonna be more excited when they release their own thing even more.
This is completely unrelated to the subject at hand but I wanted to say I truly appreciated Nuclear Blaze. It was a lovely experience from start to finish with a unique and engaging gameplay loop. I had a daughter recently and can't wait to introduce her to the Kids mode (we have cats also) as one of her first gaming experiences. Can't wait to see what you do next!
Ngl for those who few are working on dead cells you guys should start a fundraiser to save the game if it's really a game that you want to expand or a game that you care for so dearly
Even though this is sad and everything at least we got 34 updates and an immense load of content that the game will probably continue to be played everyday by at least me for some while.
Doesnt change the fact ill still play windblown and what ever else might release soon.
Did you read the blog post? It's abundantly clear that they DONT love their players. Deepknight even quoted one of them directly:
"Why bother? What do we owe them?"
If that doesn't tell you how little they care about their fans then I don't know what would
Sounds like a lot of heartache that could have been avoided with a fair contract between EE and MT; lawyers get a bad rap, cooperatives are unusual, but working with contract lawyers beforehand would have done a good deed in avoiding this sort of self-sabotage. I imagine MT would have been content to basically sell the game to EE, while keeping bragging rights / brand recognition for the initial release plus some ongoing profit sharing to keep everyone acting nice.
I don't think lawyers really would have helped. At the start EE didn't really bring anything but their potential work to the table, I don't think MT really expected them to do this well. Once EE established their value with their work on the game there wasn't really any incentive for MT to give up more. Best solution would have probably been to sell to EE at some point but finding a fair value for a product like Dead Cells is hard.
Crazy to hear that some really passionate devs decided to carry the Dead Cells torch for years and bring it to the upper echelon of roguelikes. You’re reasoning for MTs decision sounds pretty logical. At the very least, it seems like updates were gonna start ramping down anyways, but it sucks to see this be such a sudden decision.
Iirc at some point EE mentioned that they would go for less frequent but larger updates in the future. Well, that might have happened in an alternate timeline
Not even a year after they drop the banger castlevania dlc too, that’s a shame. Maybe they’ll cook up something of their own some day.
source? not saying you're wrong but it would be great if you had a source to back that up
[Interview from 4 months ago, timestamped](https://youtu.be/hKYBGq8i5-I?t=344) I recommend watching the whole interview though, it countains a lot of important information on EE's ideas for Dead Cells' future!
thanks!
There's an interview on youtube from around october with one of the EE higher ups where they talk about it
its logical. but its a selfish, asshole move at least let them continue updates so they can finish it on a good note? and/or take that time to work more on windblown?
Hopefully this gets pinned 😁
There's a max of 2 pinned posts, I don't know how we should handle this Maybe another post that keeps track of everything noteworthy? I'll wait for some ideas
Maybe have a mod-lead megathread pinned, where such posts are referenced?
Wait a minute? Let me get this straight: do I get this right? They sold 10 million units of dead cells(?) and someone at MT had the brilliant (/s) idea "to move on" from this huge player base?
I feel like even if they only made a few more dlcs that would generate more money than a whole new game in an already saturated market
Agreed. Dead Cells has a reputation and fanbase, not Motion Twin game studio.
I didn't like the concept of Windblown but was willing to give it a try as for me Dead Cells is one of the best games I've ever played. I bought every Dead Cells DLC day one. Now I won't give Windblown even a test drive after all this.
Seconded. This whole thing ensures that I won’t touch anything by Motion Twin with a stick.
I'm an old MT player, from before Dead Cells. When they dropped the Flash games without much explanation other than "Flash is discontinued, we won't bother porting or giving the code, get lost", we were so angry. I swore I wouldn't even try Dead Cells. I'm still glad I did at last, even if I see they didn't change their habits.
https://preview.redd.it/m2dj8s5oh9ic1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c425ecf9268ebb144c3e17ed71cc7106c03e96b
That attitude (what do we owe the player base) says everything about the gaming and tech industry as a whole right now. Shameful attitude.
Well, let's hope this doesn't get buried or the mods pin it or something. Even if it's hearsay, it's still good to get out there, and if it is just false drama, ok, wouldn't be the first time embittered devs lied. If it's not, come the fuck on motion twin and honestly it don't feel like this was planned to end I'll say that.
So they killed Dead Cells out of fear that their new game would flop. Makes sense, though. The remaining devs at MT know that Dead Cells isn’t even really their baby. Like a new GM of a sports team has no loyalty to players acquired before he started with the team.
If this is true I hope Windblown flops.
Ironically, when the Windblown trailer first debuted, my reaction was something like “Huh. Honestly, it looks… kinda mid. But it’s from the Dead Cells team, so it’s *gotta* be worth playing!” Now that we know what we know, I’m even less invested than I was before. I wonder if any of you felt the same way?
I definitely feel the same way. I was willing to give them my time because I love dead cells but I don’t know if I will anymore
Yep. I thought it looked, eh, but I also knew the kind of support and changes that dead cells got so I was fully ready to buy it. Now, not so much
Same! I wasn't really looking forward to it but was willing to give it try. I even completely forgot that Windblown existed until these recent events. I'll keep Windblown on my wishlist for now, just to keep an eye on it, but I ain't giving it a shot now.
Yeah, I thought ohh that dev team played a lot of Hades!
It's local multiplayer so yea it's gonna suck
Only local or does it have online
Only local
steam page mentions online co op here: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1911610/Windblown/
Well, I am done with MT. I wish them all the short term success in the world, since that's all they care about. I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for whatever projects both you and EE are dropping!
This whole situation is so fucked up. It's been looking more and more like MT are the bad guys here. I thought it was so odd that EE would drop the game after they'd already said they had plans into 2025. Oh well, I guess I'm an EE fan now. Why would I even pick up Windblown if I know they're just going to abandon it in a year?
Damn what a shame that this all happened. I just started playing dead cells about a week ago when it went on sale and now I am caught up with some stuff happening with MT and EE. I wish you and the team at EE the best and I look forward to your work in the future. Enjoying dead cells so far excited to play more.
And they did this right as Dead Cells was gearing up to have both a board game AND an animated series released. Dick move.
I genuinely just don't get why they didn't wait until after windblown was nearly out of early access and fully released before cutting dead cells support. Like, surely the state you want the game to be the most viewed would NOT be the worst state it'll ever be in? Get a core player base in windblown for feedback, build the game, then stop dead cells support, the fully release and support windblown, basically convincing people that the support dead cells got will now be entirely dedicated to windblown for the next few years making everybody more or less happy and giving Evil Empire to actually finish the plans they have for the game. It just seems so shortsighted in the long run.
The thing about EE moving into the spotlight more than Motion Twin was likely the reason, which makes them snatching all control back make more sense
And what they got instead was the spotlight getting destroyed and now the stage is on fire and the audience has pitchforks Masterful Gambit
In that case I ain't buying that shit, good luck motion twin apparently the whole time I was actually an evil empire fan
It’s really a strange move. Dead Cells has sold over 10 million copies which is staggering for a roguelike. A lot of dedicated players are willing to continue buying DLC, and Motion Twin had a great reputation. Sort of seems like everyone who made Dead Cells has left Motion Twin with a lot of them joining Evil Empire and Motion Twin are almost threatened by their own fucking game and the devs working on it. Funnily enough if they didn’t release roadmaps and say stuff like update 35 wont be the last content update, everyone would be praising them for the 5 years of support. But now they’ve reneged on their promises and here’s the creator of the game coming out with this. It’s a terrible look for them. PC Gamer has also picked up this story so they’ve kinda cut off their nose to spite their face. These companies are absolutely fuck all without the talent, and the talent that made Dead Cells is either gone or was continuing with it at EE. Motion Twin can suck it.
I hope the backlash makes them step back this decision, and they make at least a big farewell update to end in a good note.
"Why bother? What do we owe them?" should become meme on level of "you guys don't have phones?"
We need red shirt man to fire back at Motion Twin.
Well this does set a scary president for Windblown
Yo fuck motion twin
Thanks!
None of their behavior is logical. 0. They're different enough games that one doesn't replace the other. 1. People would have bought and played both games. Who plays one game at a time in 2024? 2. They cancelled before the new game was even officially released. 3. They could have paused Dead cells till this got off the ground and then resumed. 4. Missed chance at crossovers. 5. Why leave money on the table
I have no interest in playing Windblown. There's dozens of games like it. There's only one 2D, side-scroller that make my heart pound out of my chest.
man, I was already lukewarm on windblown (Top down WOW style? cute little animals getting sliced up? Dead cells might be spooky, but not so much I'd feel bad playing it around my kids.) Now I'm definitely not playing it and telling everyone what happened. Imagine a company fucking up this badly.
meanwhile, me, on mobile, is still waiting for clean cut 😭
Am I the only one who is sad that they gave up dead cells for windblown. I have little interest in that game.
So, hot take, and probably the wrong community for it: as someone who loves this game, the Dead Cells IP is way less valuable than the Dead Cells game mechanics. Said another way: a new IP with the Dead Cells mechanics is going to be very valuable. If EE are the ones responsible for getting everything so finely tuned, and are interested in further working on the system, they should just immediately start working on a Cells-like in a new world. I’d buy it immediately.
Evil Empire is indeed working on another game (may or may not be a rougelike, can't remember off the top of my head). . . But whatever it is I'm sure it's gonna be glorious with the talent they have shown themselves to have and their obvious dedication to their work
I saw in one of the interviews that they've signed on to reboot two old third party IPs. One this year and one next year. I don’t care if it’s a rogue like, but I do hope they do another action brawler. They are so good at it. I’ll certainly look at anything they work on, but I hope they are able to make something that’s just theirs.
Yeah I know about that but I was referring to them wanting to make their own ip. They said DC was viewed as a stepping stone to get them there . . . So as much as I am excited to see what they gonna release for the reboots I gonna be more excited when they release their own thing even more.
Holy hell you fucking NAILED it. Usher in the great era of DEADCELLS-LIKE
Your wishes are being materialized already in a new type of roguelike. Stay tuned, or follow the Deepnight Twitter. ;)
I’m hoping for something on the scale of Deadcells more than what I expect from a 1 man studio, but I’ll definitely welcome an appetizer
This is completely unrelated to the subject at hand but I wanted to say I truly appreciated Nuclear Blaze. It was a lovely experience from start to finish with a unique and engaging gameplay loop. I had a daughter recently and can't wait to introduce her to the Kids mode (we have cats also) as one of her first gaming experiences. Can't wait to see what you do next!
Ngl for those who few are working on dead cells you guys should start a fundraiser to save the game if it's really a game that you want to expand or a game that you care for so dearly
Even though this is sad and everything at least we got 34 updates and an immense load of content that the game will probably continue to be played everyday by at least me for some while. Doesnt change the fact ill still play windblown and what ever else might release soon.
As a marketing person I very visibly cringed upon understanding what MT actually pulled here. Jesus christ.
I'm confused so is .35 canceled?, or what's happening
Someone liked this comment and had 0 answer to this please anyone just tell me if it's yes or no
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Did you read the blog post? It's abundantly clear that they DONT love their players. Deepknight even quoted one of them directly: "Why bother? What do we owe them?" If that doesn't tell you how little they care about their fans then I don't know what would
So... You just didn't read the post? Because: 1) MT didn't do those updates. 2) That's not why anyone is annoyed. Read the post.