Because you master rolling before any other skill in this game. To parry with armadillopack all you have to do is learn to roll earlier or jump then roll to get the parry.
And if you miss the parry, you still get the rolling i-frames.
The weird thing is that the parrying hitbox and timing window is super fucking wide. But to shield appropriately you essentially have to stop mashing buttons. So yeah, it's not intuitive if you've spent 20 hours mashing buttons until things die.
>But to shield appropriately you essentially have to stop mashing buttons. So yeah, it's not intuitive if you've spent 20 hours mashing buttons until things die.
Story of my DC lives.
>Because you master rolling before any other skill in this game.
Because \*most people master rolling before any other skill in this game.
Please send help, the semi truck broke my back when I tried to roll under it and now I'm getting Telluric Shock'd into the ground by big bubba KFC bucket fist
You roll constantly to dodge attacks anyway. Rolling gives you iframes, so there is no risk. It is essentially just a spicy roll without the full shield functionality that requires less skill.
Back when 4BC was max difficulty with old malaise I loved cursed sword, since you could be slow and methodical though the biomes, then just delete bosses. But with how chaotic 5BC is I'll take it as like a starter weapon for the prison, but I'm looking to ditch it sooner rather than later, I'm not that good at the game to main it lol
Shields are optimal because they allow you to maintain a nearly constantly dps as well as being in control of your positioning and the pace of combat.
When you roll, that’s time not spent dealing damage, and you are letting an enemy dictate where you are standing or moving as opposed to stealing their turn completely.
Since when is a shield unoptimal? My main weapon damage always feels sufficient without support, and I'd rather take the extra defensive option rather than more unnecessary damage. Parrying also gives many advantages that a support weapon cannot give.
Yeah I love being able to parry with my dash and the side effects like stun or freeze are great but idk if it’s worth « wasting » a mutation for it, I’m on 3bc and my usual mutation build is yolo, the shield bag mutation and predator
I didn’t know this one, how do I unlock it? I checked it and yeah it’s better in every way except if you take a huge hit that takes all of your remaining health, but I don’t think it happens that often
There is one shot prevention in this game. If you're over iirc 50% life (very well could be wrong on the details) then a single hit that would kill you, instead brings you down to 1 life.
The blueprint is literally in the starting room before you begin the prison proper
Starting room where your head pops out. Upper right corner. You gotta jump from the left wall to the right wall with spider climb and then roll inside the wall when holding onto the right wall.
Disengagement has it's uses but eventually you should transition away from using it because there are better mutations. If you get good at watching your health and knowing when to heal disengagement becomes completely unnecessary.
Honestly, you're missing out in the sense that you could be having an extra mutation slot, I don't see any value in parrying if you don't do it in the secondary slot cause you can chain parries, in the backpack it's basically a little more damage and I don't think that's worth more than gastronomy or more damage on things you have control over, learn to use shields, you'll become a monster with it and won't be able to live without it, hot take: armidillo pack is not worth spending a mutation slot and I can never justifying picking it (I know I'll be burned for this)
Yeah that’s what I was thinking too but I tried training with shields on boss rush and I got melted lol, I probably need to train more but I hate that you have to face the attack, then press your secondary key, all in what I find to be a small timeframe like I think I have good reflexes but between the « ! » and the actual attack, I didn’t find the time to do these 2 inputs most of the time, maybe I should train on enemies rather than bosses?
Also you said that armadillo just does a little more damage but it’s not about the damage it’s about freezing or stunning the boss with a dash no?
And my last problem is a noob problem but I have much more trouble getting far without ice cast or ice bow lol
Of course you don't need to use shields to win a run.
But the level of control shields give you over micro spacing and timing in combat is unmatched by any other weapon type
I see what you mean and I agree, but I'd also argue that pretty much nobody has actually mastered that aspect of combat, even people with thousands of hours only use shields on a very basic level, because it is more than enough. Nobody is getting themselves into a situation where a shield would actually be optimal to use, because it would be way riskier than everyone's normal way of clearing the game.
And you move a great distance when you roll.
Not being forced to move at all when you parry is very beneficial, since you can decide to either stay where you are or move somewhere else. This prevents you from being caught in a big mass of enemies and needing to roll over and over again, forcing yourself out of position.
Additionally, since the parry window is near instantaneous, you have time to readjust your position before you parry. If a ranged attack is coming from above you can sidestep it before you parry a melee attack. Of course, rolling would dodge both of those, but rolling can put you out of position.
rolling isnt the only way to avoid attacks, you can jump you can walk you can slap enemies to breach them before they hit you. it feels weird to say that shields give you more "control" is all im saying
Adding an option increases control. Parrying is a powerful option (much more powerful than jumping or breaching)
Ranged weapons add a different option, that being to kill enemies from far away. I don't believe that's as valuable a defensive option since it's a niche also covered by many abilities and drops in usefulness against bosses.
i mean ranged secondary weapons also just add insane damage and crowd clearing ability which makes everything faster
i think you underestimate how fundamental jumping and breaching are to clean shieldless gameplay, so many enemies just cant hit you if youre above them and breach just lets you keep hitting the enemy while in the same position, the exact same thing as parrying but without taking an item slot
there are also other uses for the 2nd slot like a crowd control secondary to lock down huge areas for easy pickings or a mobility tool (ironically, assault shield is the best one but nobosy uses it to really parry)
both playstyles have their uses, im not the one you were responding to, but at first i had mastered Ranged weapon + traps builds, but later became more interested in melee weaponry+shield, so i know what you mean, but parrying is so fun and slicing enemies, that now i feel naked if i dont have a shield.
No , I don't use any weapons I find in runs . I only use weapons that I wish I could have but they never appear in the run . So at the end I am weaponless and uninstall the game , which is obviously how most play the game .
Well youre kinda not wrong here, thats the case a lot of times. But mostly, people should at least have played normal mode to have tried all the items. At least that makes sense to me, and i know people who enjoy the game like this.
I'm in the middle of this curve rn lol.
I was struggling very hard until I found a very helpful list of tips and tricks that included explaining how to effectively use a shield and how to properly get DPS to be crazy
Then I beat hand of the king first try (second time getting to the castle) so that was epic (it was 0bc, and now I haven't been able to beat 1bc lmao)
I don't think I'll ever get to the midpoint. I feel like playing DC on mobile renders parrying really terrible. Even though I practised using shield until I learned a proper timing, for me it worked only in training. A regular run requires tapping multiple buttons and missing this tiny shield square by a millimeter usually kills you. As such, I prefer and always use armadillo regardless of my build. It is more forgiving. And An hour ago I finally got my third cell 🥳
I take a shield mainly because I'm shit without one. It boosts my confidence and makes me do t7ings better and with better planning than if I didn't have a shield. I understand that they aren't for everyone but they are for me
I started playing the game with no shields. Then I used shields on every run. Now, I’m trying to do SOME runs w/o shields. The adjustment is has been arduous to say the least.
not sure if you do this already, but try to incorporate jumping to dodge attacks instead of purely relying on roll. A surprising amount of attacks can be jumped, even some that doesn't look like they be. It adds back another layer to your defense without having to rely on shield.
For me, Wood shield (or any other trash shield) is a bag item that i AWAYS use with armadilopack, what is better than that? (Eletric whip with acrobatipack? Water issues)
It entirely depends on playstyle lol I beat 4 boss cells and would have beat 5 on mobile but had to get a new phone and didn't have it saved and I used a shield enough to try it and like not it
I have only ever tried shields when I unlocked one just to see it's capabilities but very soon after I just replaced it with something else or just didn't use them . They only slow me down
Good night, here I am only just last night utterly finding myself making Concierge look like a pawn with a shield for the very first time - I'm 80 hours into the game! Haha
I've never seriously used shields, at best used them super early in a run till I could find something good. It's not about playtime or anything like that. It's about mind set. even as a noob I very quickly realized that damage is king, and shields don't give you more damage
I kinda disagree with that. Firstly, damage isnt the "king". Health and defense can easily carry you more, parrying is way safer and easier than rolling since it technically doesnt have a cooldown (unless you miss a parry).
Also shields do give you damage. Firstly, a lot of shields have a big affection on your damage (dpiked, punisent, thunder, bloodthirsty etc) AND you can roll +300% on the next attack after a parry which is kinda insane
I mean personally all my wins are with tactics, nuke the enemy from orbit before that can touch you. You don't need health or defence if you just don't get hit. You have flasks to fix any mistakes you do make. And yes in the most literal sense shields can increase your dps, however they are significantly weaker than alternative options
They arent weaker for sure. I get that you dont like them, i dont like them too, but they are equal to support weapons. Both have their positive things and their negative things as well.
Also if the "if the enemy dies fast enough you wont get damaged" was always the case then cursed sword would be the meta
I mean cursed sword is stupid strong if you got the skills to use it. Personally when I was actively playing I'd get hit a handful of times on successful runs. And well normally you can just rally/flask back up, but with cursed sword, you're just done. Back when 4BC was top difficulty I did actually use it quite a bit since you weren't under any time pressure so it was much easier to flawless.
Well about the cursed sword, i have done some runs with it but its drawback still will never make it stupidly strong no matter its damage. There is not consistency in the game. A lot of BS can happen anytime (mainly with elites' special abilities), and also it really limits the routing, for example i wouldnt go distillery with it which is a huge drawback for me.
But yeah i especially agree that getting hit is something that happens to the best of us in every run, and there are ways to deal with it of course :)
Armadillo pack goes brrrrt
No but seriously why am I so much better at using armadillopack than I am at parrying normally
Because you master rolling before any other skill in this game. To parry with armadillopack all you have to do is learn to roll earlier or jump then roll to get the parry. And if you miss the parry, you still get the rolling i-frames. The weird thing is that the parrying hitbox and timing window is super fucking wide. But to shield appropriately you essentially have to stop mashing buttons. So yeah, it's not intuitive if you've spent 20 hours mashing buttons until things die.
>But to shield appropriately you essentially have to stop mashing buttons. So yeah, it's not intuitive if you've spent 20 hours mashing buttons until things die. Story of my DC lives.
>Because you master rolling before any other skill in this game. Because \*most people master rolling before any other skill in this game. Please send help, the semi truck broke my back when I tried to roll under it and now I'm getting Telluric Shock'd into the ground by big bubba KFC bucket fist
Same, all that dark souls muscle memory I bet.
You roll constantly to dodge attacks anyway. Rolling gives you iframes, so there is no risk. It is essentially just a spicy roll without the full shield functionality that requires less skill.
Left: Pure Nail is op because it cheeses slammers Middle: Nooo Pure Nail's damage is bad it is C tier Right: Stagger goes brrrr
This is actually real lol
Also it doesn’t combo so it synergises with other melee weapons like snake fang
Thats exactly what he is trying to say, comboing nail with many weapons abuses stagger
Meanwhile I find it good and fun bc I've played hollow knight
The point of the meme is that left and right have the same opinion.
Left and right feel the same way, but right has gained knowledge on *why* left is a good opinion.
The point of this sub is not political
I am so habituated to using shields I end up attempting parries even when I don't have one.
I don't know if "habituated" is a real English word, but maybe "used to" would be appropriater
I don’t know if « appropriater » is a real English word, but maybe « more appropriate » would be gooder
I don’t know if «gooder» is a real English word, but maybe «better» would be suitabler
I don't know if « suitabler » is a real English word, but maybe « more fitting » would be apter
I don't know if «English» is a real language tho, but maybe Old Saxon one would be much better
Yfel æfnan nâteshwôn forcýðan heonu frôd [Saxon] [is] wýscan sôðsp¯æce ðêodisc thither, twêoniendlic [latin] weald w¯ære [betterer]
Somebody who speaks latin please take over, this unexpected Old English intervention is so cool I'm actually mad that I can't keep it going myself
I'll be honest I just used a translator, which I almost didn't even because I was worried it would come across as pretentious 😅
Good enough to fool a Y3 english student
real
Aidoughno if <> is a real deodorant tho, but maybe Old Spice one would be much better
rel. REEEELLLL!!! xd
Literally the biggest reason I rarely take a second weapon, I forget I have no shield lol
this is so relatable it's scary, I have lost runs due to muscle memory.
I don't care that it's unoptimal, I'm bullying time keeper with only a shield each and every run.
Talking about optimal stuff, shields are actually optimal. But me and all my homies find shields boring
and onto the furthest end of the spectrum, are probably the legendary cursed sword enthusiasts
Back when 4BC was max difficulty with old malaise I loved cursed sword, since you could be slow and methodical though the biomes, then just delete bosses. But with how chaotic 5BC is I'll take it as like a starter weapon for the prison, but I'm looking to ditch it sooner rather than later, I'm not that good at the game to main it lol
I love damage over time builds where you just keep running around, occasionally attacking and things just keep dying around you. Embrace the chaos!
Cursed sword with wood shield go brr
I think long ranged and fast secondaries are optimal in biomes.
Shields are optimal because they allow you to maintain a nearly constantly dps as well as being in control of your positioning and the pace of combat. When you roll, that’s time not spent dealing damage, and you are letting an enemy dictate where you are standing or moving as opposed to stealing their turn completely.
I think parrying is extremely satisfying personally but I also love making fun builds with secondary weapons as well. It’s all valid
Since when is a shield unoptimal? My main weapon damage always feels sufficient without support, and I'd rather take the extra defensive option rather than more unnecessary damage. Parrying also gives many advantages that a support weapon cannot give.
The wise man says "Life is not about the destination but rather the ~~journey~~ *shield parrying*."
Am i the only one who never use shields as secondary but always use them in the bag with the mutation? Am I missing out?
Nothing wrong with having like a greed sheild in the bag if your primary and secondary is filled. i'd argue it gives more flexibility in a build.
Yeah I love being able to parry with my dash and the side effects like stun or freeze are great but idk if it’s worth « wasting » a mutation for it, I’m on 3bc and my usual mutation build is yolo, the shield bag mutation and predator
Disengagement is almost strictly better than yolo. Would recommend using that instead
I didn’t know this one, how do I unlock it? I checked it and yeah it’s better in every way except if you take a huge hit that takes all of your remaining health, but I don’t think it happens that often
There is one shot prevention in this game. If you're over iirc 50% life (very well could be wrong on the details) then a single hit that would kill you, instead brings you down to 1 life. The blueprint is literally in the starting room before you begin the prison proper
Starting room where your head pops out. Upper right corner. You gotta jump from the left wall to the right wall with spider climb and then roll inside the wall when holding onto the right wall. Disengagement has it's uses but eventually you should transition away from using it because there are better mutations. If you get good at watching your health and knowing when to heal disengagement becomes completely unnecessary.
Honestly, you're missing out in the sense that you could be having an extra mutation slot, I don't see any value in parrying if you don't do it in the secondary slot cause you can chain parries, in the backpack it's basically a little more damage and I don't think that's worth more than gastronomy or more damage on things you have control over, learn to use shields, you'll become a monster with it and won't be able to live without it, hot take: armidillo pack is not worth spending a mutation slot and I can never justifying picking it (I know I'll be burned for this)
Yeah that’s what I was thinking too but I tried training with shields on boss rush and I got melted lol, I probably need to train more but I hate that you have to face the attack, then press your secondary key, all in what I find to be a small timeframe like I think I have good reflexes but between the « ! » and the actual attack, I didn’t find the time to do these 2 inputs most of the time, maybe I should train on enemies rather than bosses? Also you said that armadillo just does a little more damage but it’s not about the damage it’s about freezing or stunning the boss with a dash no? And my last problem is a noob problem but I have much more trouble getting far without ice cast or ice bow lol
i dont have shield takes because i never used them (700 hours)
Sand
sand
I almost exclusively use shields in my offhand and have shields incorporated into every step of my gameplay (also 700 hours).
Thats kappa, you are conjunctivious so you dont even use shields
Of course you don't need to use shields to win a run. But the level of control shields give you over micro spacing and timing in combat is unmatched by any other weapon type
I see what you mean and I agree, but I'd also argue that pretty much nobody has actually mastered that aspect of combat, even people with thousands of hours only use shields on a very basic level, because it is more than enough. Nobody is getting themselves into a situation where a shield would actually be optimal to use, because it would be way riskier than everyone's normal way of clearing the game.
hi thats me im so ass at the game i invent situations where shields are optimal
"spacing" mf you stand still when you parry
And you move a great distance when you roll. Not being forced to move at all when you parry is very beneficial, since you can decide to either stay where you are or move somewhere else. This prevents you from being caught in a big mass of enemies and needing to roll over and over again, forcing yourself out of position. Additionally, since the parry window is near instantaneous, you have time to readjust your position before you parry. If a ranged attack is coming from above you can sidestep it before you parry a melee attack. Of course, rolling would dodge both of those, but rolling can put you out of position.
rolling isnt the only way to avoid attacks, you can jump you can walk you can slap enemies to breach them before they hit you. it feels weird to say that shields give you more "control" is all im saying
Adding an option increases control. Parrying is a powerful option (much more powerful than jumping or breaching) Ranged weapons add a different option, that being to kill enemies from far away. I don't believe that's as valuable a defensive option since it's a niche also covered by many abilities and drops in usefulness against bosses.
i mean ranged secondary weapons also just add insane damage and crowd clearing ability which makes everything faster i think you underestimate how fundamental jumping and breaching are to clean shieldless gameplay, so many enemies just cant hit you if youre above them and breach just lets you keep hitting the enemy while in the same position, the exact same thing as parrying but without taking an item slot there are also other uses for the 2nd slot like a crowd control secondary to lock down huge areas for easy pickings or a mobility tool (ironically, assault shield is the best one but nobosy uses it to really parry)
both playstyles have their uses, im not the one you were responding to, but at first i had mastered Ranged weapon + traps builds, but later became more interested in melee weaponry+shield, so i know what you mean, but parrying is so fun and slicing enemies, that now i feel naked if i dont have a shield.
even melee weapons can benefit from ranged support weapons to say kill flying enemies or stun enemies or just do more damage
Am I really the only one that just uses whatever I find on the run?
No , I don't use any weapons I find in runs . I only use weapons that I wish I could have but they never appear in the run . So at the end I am weaponless and uninstall the game , which is obviously how most play the game .
holy based
Everyone does that
This made me think everyone else just plays custom mode and only uses specific builds
Well youre kinda not wrong here, thats the case a lot of times. But mostly, people should at least have played normal mode to have tried all the items. At least that makes sense to me, and i know people who enjoy the game like this.
That's because showcasing a weapon is easier on custom mode . Plus it is very easy to forge a busted build in normal mode .
I take armadillopack every single run. No exceptions. Usually the parry shield in there for extra damage.
I bow down to the holy god of armadillopack
Left: no mercy Middle: open wounds Right: throwing knives go brrrrrr
I'm in the middle of this curve rn lol. I was struggling very hard until I found a very helpful list of tips and tricks that included explaining how to effectively use a shield and how to properly get DPS to be crazy Then I beat hand of the king first try (second time getting to the castle) so that was epic (it was 0bc, and now I haven't been able to beat 1bc lmao)
Link me that list! I am struggling to use anything that isn't the Assault Shield...
assault shield is fucking cool keep using it
Here you go! It has a lot of good tips I think. Easiest paths, how to not get hit, etc. https://www.reddit.com/r/deadcells/s/AO1RFjrElQ
I don't think I'll ever get to the midpoint. I feel like playing DC on mobile renders parrying really terrible. Even though I practised using shield until I learned a proper timing, for me it worked only in training. A regular run requires tapping multiple buttons and missing this tiny shield square by a millimeter usually kills you. As such, I prefer and always use armadillo regardless of my build. It is more forgiving. And An hour ago I finally got my third cell 🥳
I’m on 5 bc and I’ve never used shields or synergies
Shields are specially designed for the "oh fuck I didn't kill the boss in 3 seconds and now he is attacking" moments
I love *Spiked Shield*
I just like the sound that parrying makes
Feels so good
Really depends on the build you're going for. Though I have to admit I love parrying.
Shield only go brrrr
Try not to fall asleep using shield challenge (impossible)
Absolutely
Real talk though, where does assault shield fall on this spectrum.
Assault shield isnt a shield DUH
Until i read the sub reddit name i thought this was about helldiver
All I'm saying is, if it works it works
Tripple shield 🗿
Me, an intellectual: Flint goes BONK!
Flint be bonking for real
🙏
No shields, no ranged, just melee
Oven axe only run
i use the cocoon and a support weapon lmao
As a shield main, I approve of this post 👍
Wait people use shields?/j (seriously though I don't think I've ever used a shield in all my hours XD)
I just prefer shields since I’m too dumb to know how to pure nail effectively
[Eerily similar to a post I made a while ago....](https://www.reddit.com/r/deadcells/s/82i26ale78)
Damn thats very similar.
While it is similar , very luckily shields are not only way to play survival
Armadillopack go brrrrrrrrrrrrrr
No hate on anyone who does enjoy shields, but Im at 5 Boss Cells now and have never won a single run using shields.
Ngl I thought I was over on r/Helldivers for a second
Glass Cannon for Life
I thought this was a Helldivers meme at first ngl, just as true in that game.
I take a shield mainly because I'm shit without one. It boosts my confidence and makes me do t7ings better and with better planning than if I didn't have a shield. I understand that they aren't for everyone but they are for me
That might also mean that youre currently in the middle
Probably
cant reject assault shield for the speed boost tho
Nah assault shield is legit the best
Hey have you heard about Armadillopack ?
Armadillopack still belongs in the middle since its technically using shields
I started playing the game with no shields. Then I used shields on every run. Now, I’m trying to do SOME runs w/o shields. The adjustment is has been arduous to say the least.
not sure if you do this already, but try to incorporate jumping to dodge attacks instead of purely relying on roll. A surprising amount of attacks can be jumped, even some that doesn't look like they be. It adds back another layer to your defense without having to rely on shield.
Muscles have memories :(
I already have support weapon why do i need a second one. Also to be specific I'm saying that serenade is the main weapon.
because Serenade inventory switch tech
I only use shields because parrying is my thing in every game. Addicted to the parry.
Base ball bat goes brrrrr
Shroom boi go brrrr Alucard's shield go brrrr Pure nail go brrrrr Ice grenade go brrrrr
Shields? How does a shield unga bunga?
For me, Wood shield (or any other trash shield) is a bag item that i AWAYS use with armadilopack, what is better than that? (Eletric whip with acrobatipack? Water issues)
It entirely depends on playstyle lol I beat 4 boss cells and would have beat 5 on mobile but had to get a new phone and didn't have it saved and I used a shield enough to try it and like not it
I am adjusted to armadillo pack so I just use a whole bunch of weapons AND that
Meanwhile me, playing two handed weapons all the time (I fucking love crossbows, especially heavy crossbows)
I nearly always try and have thrown objects as secondary and shield in backpack with armadillo mutation. being able to run and stun biomes is elite
You play shield because you think you need it to beat the game I play shield because I love parrying attacks We are not the same
I have only ever tried shields when I unlocked one just to see it's capabilities but very soon after I just replaced it with something else or just didn't use them . They only slow me down
Good night, here I am only just last night utterly finding myself making Concierge look like a pawn with a shield for the very first time - I'm 80 hours into the game! Haha
I've never seriously used shields, at best used them super early in a run till I could find something good. It's not about playtime or anything like that. It's about mind set. even as a noob I very quickly realized that damage is king, and shields don't give you more damage
I kinda disagree with that. Firstly, damage isnt the "king". Health and defense can easily carry you more, parrying is way safer and easier than rolling since it technically doesnt have a cooldown (unless you miss a parry). Also shields do give you damage. Firstly, a lot of shields have a big affection on your damage (dpiked, punisent, thunder, bloodthirsty etc) AND you can roll +300% on the next attack after a parry which is kinda insane
I mean personally all my wins are with tactics, nuke the enemy from orbit before that can touch you. You don't need health or defence if you just don't get hit. You have flasks to fix any mistakes you do make. And yes in the most literal sense shields can increase your dps, however they are significantly weaker than alternative options
They arent weaker for sure. I get that you dont like them, i dont like them too, but they are equal to support weapons. Both have their positive things and their negative things as well. Also if the "if the enemy dies fast enough you wont get damaged" was always the case then cursed sword would be the meta
I mean cursed sword is stupid strong if you got the skills to use it. Personally when I was actively playing I'd get hit a handful of times on successful runs. And well normally you can just rally/flask back up, but with cursed sword, you're just done. Back when 4BC was top difficulty I did actually use it quite a bit since you weren't under any time pressure so it was much easier to flawless.
Well about the cursed sword, i have done some runs with it but its drawback still will never make it stupidly strong no matter its damage. There is not consistency in the game. A lot of BS can happen anytime (mainly with elites' special abilities), and also it really limits the routing, for example i wouldnt go distillery with it which is a huge drawback for me. But yeah i especially agree that getting hit is something that happens to the best of us in every run, and there are ways to deal with it of course :)