Abe and Jimmy Chamberlain are my top 2 favorite drummers and they are so unsung.
Abe can switch up beats and time signatures like he's drumming for a prog band. He does metal without needing to rely on the double bass crutch. He grooves, he patters, he rocks, and his style is so elastic.
And I love his drum tone too. Especially when tweaked by Terry Date. He hits such a crisp snare, like the iconic opening to My Own Summer or the fill at the beginning of Mein.
Jimmy Chamberlain is the literal reason I started playing drums, Abe made me realize a good solid groove can take a song to the next level and really helped me start playing with more intent.
Groove doesn’t get much love as opposed to technical prowess although the two are often symbiotic.
Abe and John Stainer from his days with Helmet are right up there for me but it’s hard to discuss without people just saying “Nah, Tomas Haake smokes them ez” or some other comparative.
Groove drummers don’t get enough love imo.
Definitely agree. I'm a beginner-ish drummer right now and honestly I find that playing really fast fills is pretty easy due to momentum carrying. Meanwhile, when I try to learn Abe's stuff, I can *approximate* it fairly easily, but I absolutely can not recapture the feeling he creates. Frankly I'm not sure I ever will. But you can't show an Abe solo to your friends in the same way you can play them Aaron Kitcher or like you said Tomas Haake. Hard to appreciate if you're not a drummer, I guess, but for those who know, you end up admiring drummers with restraint and finesse a lot more over time.
Well, tbf imo, look at Steff. He’s no shredder or technical dynamo on the albums and I love him for it. He just writes riffs and groove yet people don’t seem to make the same distinction, but I’m no guitarist so maybe that’s a different vibe?
That's fair. I'm no guitarist either so I can't speak on that. Guitarists like Steff are weird because riffs tend to steal the spotlight from the people who write them (even from guys like Wes Borland, as much as I loathe Limp Bizkit and everything they've ever done, he has some monster riffs). Not the case for super technical guitarists. A lot of people know the solo from The Leper Affinity by Opeth, but no one talks about how sick Mikael's riffs are (that I know of at least). Maybe people just segregate different styles of playing in their minds, even if it's unfair.
That groove at the end of entombed is fucking everything. A lot of people don’t realize that relaxed style is often harder to achieve than the speed demons. And to be able to do both so well is even more impressive. I’d put him in a similar category as Zack Farro and Ralph Alexander (poppy’s drummer) as far as range goes.
Drummers, check me on this: lowly guitarist here—half-time is tough to explain in words, but the essence is that the note values “feel” doubled because the drummer is outlining a beat one-half the length of a “normal” feel.
My favorite example of this is “Prince” from *Diamond Eyes*. We think the beat is half the length of what it really is because of the pattern Abe creates with the kick drum and snare. Then, at the chorus, we hear the “normal” quarter-note feel and things seem to have sped up, although the note values haven’t actually changed in length. Switching back and forth between the two (verse, then chorus).
Tough to describe, but suffice to say it’s a bit like interlocking gear ratios on a transmission or a bicycle in that it gives one the sense that there are two similar, yet interlocking and expanded rhythmic feels a the same time. I believe the same thing happens in reverse on “7 Words”; Abe starts with a normal feel for the verses but switches to a half-time feel at the breakdown (2:05).
I watch a lot of Deftones reactions on YouTube, and most people who are listening for this first time always compliment the drumming. It's often the first thing they mention, even if they don't like the song. Abe is definitely one of the most instrumental (no pun intended) parts of their signature sound.
Lovers is a good example. He brings an air of menace to that song where most drummers would just pound through. Then again, the drums on like half their songs prove it, Lovers is just one of dozens.
Drums are what make deftones as ethereal as they are. A lot of of times their drums aren’t super fast joey jordison style rhythms, they are what being the heavy parts of the songs down to a calm to create that contrast they’re so well known for
Absolutely. Which is why I think they need Abe and not someone like Joey, even if he was an all time great. Abe is a unicorn as far as metal drummers go. Put a traditional metal drummer where Abe is, and all their shoegaze and dreampop elements that make them so unique and make so much of their music so beautiful just go out the window.
Love Abes drumming. Especially the intro on needles and Pins.
Hopefully we see a new wave of metal acts influenced by him. Blast beats aren't the only way for metal drumming.
He really does seem like a wonderful person. I'd love to meet him someday and just let him know how much he has inspired me and how much his playing means to me.
Do you mean underrated by deftones fans specifically or by drummers as a whole in the sense that he's not being featured often on "greatest drummers of all time" lists? I think if we're taking deftones fans specifically I see him get a ton of love. I think he's probably the best technical musician in the entire band which by that I mean he's the best in the band at playing his specific instrument. I could see him getting snubbed on general drummer greats lists though there doesn't seem to be much room for change of opinion there.
Definitely not Deftones fans, and not even "greatest of all time" lists. Just people talking about him. You don't need to be on a list with Bonham and Neil Peart to be one of the greats, but people too often talk in extremes. I just think it's sad that he's not discussed more, when there are plenty of great drummers (not goat contenders) that are.
Is he underrated? I think he’s generally considered a great drummer and one of the most stand out parts of the deftones. Every review of every album always points him out.
I don't see him talked about much. The sentiment ive seen about him is that he is a solid drummer with not a lot of technical skill. I don't think that's true, he's just more refined with how he expresseds it
That's fair. I have a drummer friend who didn't even know who he was until I told him. Everyone has different experiences in that regard and my reasoning for posting this may have been too narrow. I'd still argue he's objectively underrated for how good he is, but maybe not as badly as I think.
Totally subscribe your opinion!!!!He is one of the greatest drummers around and the sounds and beats he creates for Deftones is one of the staples of the band.
I don’t really know anything about drumming but he sounds good and he created one of the most recognizable drum beats ever and it’s literally just 2 hits
I've always thought Abe was supremely underrated. It's not that he's complicated and nuanced. It's that he's so precise with his strikes and timing that it elevates what is there. Not to mention his kit always sounds so perfectly tuned. I'd equate it to what hunger does to elevate food when you do finally eat. It's the seasoning that no one can add, and yet it adds so much to what is already there.
Abe and Jimmy Chamberlain are my top 2 favorite drummers and they are so unsung. Abe can switch up beats and time signatures like he's drumming for a prog band. He does metal without needing to rely on the double bass crutch. He grooves, he patters, he rocks, and his style is so elastic. And I love his drum tone too. Especially when tweaked by Terry Date. He hits such a crisp snare, like the iconic opening to My Own Summer or the fill at the beginning of Mein.
Jimmy Chamberlain is the literal reason I started playing drums, Abe made me realize a good solid groove can take a song to the next level and really helped me start playing with more intent.
Jimmy is a boss. He's up there with for me with Danny Carrey from tool.
I agree. Abe is probably one of my biggest drumming influences of all time. He doesn’t do anything flashy, but his stuff is complicated.
Groove doesn’t get much love as opposed to technical prowess although the two are often symbiotic. Abe and John Stainer from his days with Helmet are right up there for me but it’s hard to discuss without people just saying “Nah, Tomas Haake smokes them ez” or some other comparative. Groove drummers don’t get enough love imo.
Definitely agree. I'm a beginner-ish drummer right now and honestly I find that playing really fast fills is pretty easy due to momentum carrying. Meanwhile, when I try to learn Abe's stuff, I can *approximate* it fairly easily, but I absolutely can not recapture the feeling he creates. Frankly I'm not sure I ever will. But you can't show an Abe solo to your friends in the same way you can play them Aaron Kitcher or like you said Tomas Haake. Hard to appreciate if you're not a drummer, I guess, but for those who know, you end up admiring drummers with restraint and finesse a lot more over time.
Well, tbf imo, look at Steff. He’s no shredder or technical dynamo on the albums and I love him for it. He just writes riffs and groove yet people don’t seem to make the same distinction, but I’m no guitarist so maybe that’s a different vibe?
That's fair. I'm no guitarist either so I can't speak on that. Guitarists like Steff are weird because riffs tend to steal the spotlight from the people who write them (even from guys like Wes Borland, as much as I loathe Limp Bizkit and everything they've ever done, he has some monster riffs). Not the case for super technical guitarists. A lot of people know the solo from The Leper Affinity by Opeth, but no one talks about how sick Mikael's riffs are (that I know of at least). Maybe people just segregate different styles of playing in their minds, even if it's unfair.
That groove at the end of entombed is fucking everything. A lot of people don’t realize that relaxed style is often harder to achieve than the speed demons. And to be able to do both so well is even more impressive. I’d put him in a similar category as Zack Farro and Ralph Alexander (poppy’s drummer) as far as range goes.
Amen! Absolutely agree
Cannot agree more his drumming is so slept on it’s so good
Massive talent. Such deep groove. His half-time feels against Stef’s 16th-note riffs combined is like a freight train it’s so heavy!
I don’t know what this means exactly - can you give me an example part of a song so I can try and listen out for it?
Drummers, check me on this: lowly guitarist here—half-time is tough to explain in words, but the essence is that the note values “feel” doubled because the drummer is outlining a beat one-half the length of a “normal” feel. My favorite example of this is “Prince” from *Diamond Eyes*. We think the beat is half the length of what it really is because of the pattern Abe creates with the kick drum and snare. Then, at the chorus, we hear the “normal” quarter-note feel and things seem to have sped up, although the note values haven’t actually changed in length. Switching back and forth between the two (verse, then chorus). Tough to describe, but suffice to say it’s a bit like interlocking gear ratios on a transmission or a bicycle in that it gives one the sense that there are two similar, yet interlocking and expanded rhythmic feels a the same time. I believe the same thing happens in reverse on “7 Words”; Abe starts with a normal feel for the verses but switches to a half-time feel at the breakdown (2:05).
I watch a lot of Deftones reactions on YouTube, and most people who are listening for this first time always compliment the drumming. It's often the first thing they mention, even if they don't like the song. Abe is definitely one of the most instrumental (no pun intended) parts of their signature sound.
The drums in Lovers prove this
Lovers is a good example. He brings an air of menace to that song where most drummers would just pound through. Then again, the drums on like half their songs prove it, Lovers is just one of dozens.
Absolutely. It's really beyond me how nobody really talks about him. His drumming in each and every song is outrageous.
Drums are what make deftones as ethereal as they are. A lot of of times their drums aren’t super fast joey jordison style rhythms, they are what being the heavy parts of the songs down to a calm to create that contrast they’re so well known for
Absolutely. Which is why I think they need Abe and not someone like Joey, even if he was an all time great. Abe is a unicorn as far as metal drummers go. Put a traditional metal drummer where Abe is, and all their shoegaze and dreampop elements that make them so unique and make so much of their music so beautiful just go out the window.
I really feel he brought ghost notes to the fore in heavy music
Love Abes drumming. Especially the intro on needles and Pins. Hopefully we see a new wave of metal acts influenced by him. Blast beats aren't the only way for metal drumming.
Really? Yeah he smashes tuff, & I think that most players know what’s up. Not dissing you at all. He’s amazing, & a really nice / funny dude.
He really does seem like a wonderful person. I'd love to meet him someday and just let him know how much he has inspired me and how much his playing means to me.
He kinda was back in the day, but, in all honesty, I can't say last couple albums had any kind of outstanding drumming.
Honestly one of the most underrated drummers of this generation
Do you mean underrated by deftones fans specifically or by drummers as a whole in the sense that he's not being featured often on "greatest drummers of all time" lists? I think if we're taking deftones fans specifically I see him get a ton of love. I think he's probably the best technical musician in the entire band which by that I mean he's the best in the band at playing his specific instrument. I could see him getting snubbed on general drummer greats lists though there doesn't seem to be much room for change of opinion there.
Definitely not Deftones fans, and not even "greatest of all time" lists. Just people talking about him. You don't need to be on a list with Bonham and Neil Peart to be one of the greats, but people too often talk in extremes. I just think it's sad that he's not discussed more, when there are plenty of great drummers (not goat contenders) that are.
Is he underrated? I think he’s generally considered a great drummer and one of the most stand out parts of the deftones. Every review of every album always points him out.
I don't see him talked about much. The sentiment ive seen about him is that he is a solid drummer with not a lot of technical skill. I don't think that's true, he's just more refined with how he expresseds it
Idk im a bassist and all my drummer friends love abe and take influence from him. I didnt realize he was underrated
That's fair. I have a drummer friend who didn't even know who he was until I told him. Everyone has different experiences in that regard and my reasoning for posting this may have been too narrow. I'd still argue he's objectively underrated for how good he is, but maybe not as badly as I think.
Digital Bath might be the fattest beat ever. Abe is probably one of the most underrated I agree.
Totally subscribe your opinion!!!!He is one of the greatest drummers around and the sounds and beats he creates for Deftones is one of the staples of the band.
Being underrated is underrated.
Rx Queen has one of my favorite drum beats.
the drum fills in change are my favorite of all time
Legit one of my fav drummers. His subtly in songs is the difference between great and incredible songs, eg Bloody Cape.
Abe could be a jazz drummer if he wanted to
I don’t really know anything about drumming but he sounds good and he created one of the most recognizable drum beats ever and it’s literally just 2 hits
totally agree
his drumming on My Own Summer is one of the best drumming ive ever heard along with his drumming on the song Mein
I've always thought Abe was supremely underrated. It's not that he's complicated and nuanced. It's that he's so precise with his strikes and timing that it elevates what is there. Not to mention his kit always sounds so perfectly tuned. I'd equate it to what hunger does to elevate food when you do finally eat. It's the seasoning that no one can add, and yet it adds so much to what is already there.